Vikings – Bjorn to rule

Full transcript of Vikings – Bjorn to rule.

0:00Oti: Welcome back to another week at For Your Reference Podcast.

0:04KT: Oh, it's a sexy substitute. Thank you, Oti. Welcome welcome, friends and lovers. That also means that you have some homework that you need to do before you listen to this episode. Vikings is well loved and well lauded in the For Your Reference podcast. It is also our second released episode of this podcast in 2019. So if you really love us, make sure you love us before you listen to that episode. But we will be covering season six this week. Take the show away. Skull,

1:03KT: betrayal loving friends and lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT.

1:03Oti: And Oti.

1:03KT: Choose your adventure as we grow roots, set sail, and uncover familial betrayal with the sixth and final season of the series Vikings. Mhmm. Woo hoo hoo. This is the time to say spoiler spoiler spoiler. Otherwise, Valhalla, Valhalla, Valhalla. Wow. I grew a beard just in that. You're my beard. Again, friends and lovers, we have covered the first five seasons of Vikings. This is definitely

1:48KT: going to be the Last Dance All Stars after party lounge where we just sit, sip on some good old things and, you know, relive the gloriousness that is this TV series. Mhmm. It's the final countdown. It is absolutely the final countdown. And we are gonna hold on to this series just like that extra that was trying to fight Aethelwulf many seasons ago. You're most welcome, friends and lovers. And there's so much more banter in our second episode if you wanna go and check that out. This series is

2:20KT: one of, if not the best History Channel series. Amazon Prime did release the second half of season six. I'm not sure what that means in regards to ownership rights. Season six was premiered in December 2019 with the latter half of that season being released in December 2020. Mhmm. We have a whole slew of directors that I just wanna give an amazing accolading shout out. Steve Saint Leger, David Frazee, Daniel Grou, Helen Shaver, Paddy Breathnach, as well as our ever eternal Katheryn Winnick directing one episode.

3:02KT: Woo hoo. Woo hoo hoo. We fucking love we don't love the Big Sky. We do watch it, but this is where we this is where we prefer Katheryn Winnick. And then we also have writer extraordinaire, Michael Hirst. If you are familiar with Vikings, you know he is the OG. He is the one that we sploosh at every altar every week when Vikings was coming out. Two of his daughters was featured in the show as well, most notably Torvi. Mhmm. Lovely, lovely Torvi.

3:35KT: So like we mentioned, History Channel and also Amazon Prime, top billing cast, Katheryn Winnick, Gustaf Skarsgård, as well as Alexander Ludwig. All right, Oti. Let's get into it. Let's talk about our first impressions. And I guess now that we are closing the series, how did you feel experiencing the final series and just the end of it? It was emotional.

4:04Oti: Oh, absolutely. It was very emotional for me. I think a lot of the things that same characters that you've loved and you've seen through the years and the story coming to a close, you expected at least some aspects of the storyline was predictable, granted, but it didn't take away from the emotional payoff. I found myself fully tearing when watching Lagertha or or Bjorn die. And it's one of those things that just hit you. You saw it coming miles off. It made sense, but watching it was a different thing.

4:35KT: And you deserve that verbal punch if you haven't fucking watched Vikings and you're still fucking listening, friends and lovers. Yeah. Oh, I absolutely, absolutely agree. There's nothing more special in a watching experience than being able to delve into a world where you've come to love and want to see characters grow and form and fall down and get back up. And Vikings was really that series for us. I

5:09KT: do it because I have a lot of cheek and I like to show my cheek a lot. Whenever there's Game of Thrones, I always like to throw Vikings in there, but I truly do mean it. I love Vikings more than Game of Thrones and, you know, the whole fire and brimstone I have is still existent with Daenerys, but you know, like Vikings will forever be that lovely place in my heart. I think it goes Spartacus, Vikings and everything the fuck else. But in regards to the sixth and final season of Vikings,

5:44KT: you call it predictable and I say it is satisfying in its journey and in its success in being able to tie stories and give us satisfying arcs. Agreed. Because they weren't all going to live on. Right? We we were accepting the fact that everyone is going to meet their demise, usually self inflicted, usually, you know, self fulfilling much to Oti's favorite character, the Seer. We know where we're going to go, but it's in a way that we want it to happen. Right? I love how every character got their own moment in the final season.

6:30KT: You know, as much as we say that we didn't want it to end, I think Oti and I are more pragmatic in regards to shows, and we also don't want it to continue more than it needs to. So we're accepting of the fact that our characters are not going to make it, but they will continue to live on in our hearts, shall we say? Oh, for sure. Every character got beautiful spotlight and attention on them. And, you know, the the best sort of final seasons,

7:03KT: as well as just seasons in general, but the best final seasons of a TV show are already wrapping up before the last episode. We haven't covered Gangs of London yet, but I definitely have that specific feedback in regards to that show. But when a show is ending and you can start to see it on the horizon that the show is ending, there shouldn't really be any sort of surprises in the final sort of episodes.

7:30KT: It should really be, I guess, as you say, not in a pejorative way, but it is predictable because that means we're going to get to a wholehearted satisfying end.

7:41Oti: Yeah. It's it's not the moment to do script flips in as much as we in as much as we love those.

7:46KT: That's a Cleveland Show reference, friends and lovers.

7:51Oti: It's it's it's those things that especially after you've experienced the world for such a long period of time, and you've grown to love the characters and you know exactly the storyline and all that it entails and how from taking into account how the Seer foretold their futures and everything else from them interacting with each other. Yeah. You know, it's one of those things that I think Vikings has really done such a brilliant job at. Oh, absolutely.

8:19KT: And I know we are talking about the final season, but when you have a firm foundation in Ragnar, of course, you know, you can feel, you know, you can feel the essence of him living on specifically in regards to his sons.

8:19Oti: Yeah. And I think one of the things when you're speaking about Travis and Ragnar, sorry.

8:19KT: Wow. You said it like you're best friends with him. You just you just head out the back. Travis. Head out the back and have a Scooey.

8:49Oti: Yeah. One of the things that you learn, like, especially when he left, I do not I do not feel like there'll be a gap. Know, usually when big shows lose their star lead Yeah. There's a gap, there's a hole. And most of the time, we don't really bond or gel with the show as much, but they did such a good job interweaving, be it interweaving Lagertha into the storyline and making her such a prominent figure.

9:12Oti: And one that he'd cling on and wants to see what the future holds for her, especially in the world that they were living in and what they had painted the world to be. What stood for Lagertha being one of the, you know, first female Viking warriors.

9:26KT: Yeah. The shield maidens. If you're nasty. Are you also trying to say Oti that I'm Ragnar and you're Lagertha and the podcast can exist without me? How dare you? What? How dare you? You sound like an Athelstan mistress, you motherfucker.

9:45Oti: We love a good Athelstan.

9:47KT: We do not. But, yeah, I look back very fondly on this series and it was nice to relive this series. A lot of the time, especially when we're talking about TV shows, I do like continuing to stay in the world. So don't worry about me, mind your business if you saw my first comments on HBO Nordic. Watching all of the Viking Q and A lives. Just mind your business, kids.

9:47Oti: Ignore KT's thirsting on Instagram.

10:24KT: I also do wanna thank all of our friends and lovers that have been with us since we've started the podcast and maybe Vikings is how you found us. But I also just wanna thank everyone generally because we did release that in February 2019 and we consistently still get downloads to this day of Vikings. I do hope it's not the first episode they listen to because the audio is a bit How's it going? But, you know, we grow just the same way we've had huge character development with

10:56Oti: Lagertha

10:57KT: and the brothers, you know, our podcast crew. Oh, nice. Look at you, Oti. That's full character development on Oti, friends and lovers. Let's get into the show and let's spend some time giving our fictional flowers to characters that we've known and grown to love over the years. Obviously, we are going to be starting off with Lagertha.

11:22Oti: One of the favorites.

11:23KT: One of yeah. One of the favorites, absolutely. I think, like you were saying, I think a lot of the time we do wonder whether, you know, she'll be treated with the same level of prestige and adoration as Ragnar, because Ragnar was such a huge figure, not just in Kattegat, but throughout all of Norway. Right? But Lagertha got one of the most beautiful send offs that I've ever seen in television history. It was gorgeous, it was beautiful, and it was emotional.

11:55Oti: Yeah, we had a lot of fast and loose moments with the Lagertha as to whether or not she was gonna die and what moment was she was going to die. Yeah. For me, I thought it would come earlier when she especially during the Bishop Heahmund character arc, where I thought, you know, this is a moment where we'd see Lagertha fall in love and possibly die out of, you know, the results of that. But we kept on getting she survived. She was taken by. She went back to Kattegat. Someone healed her. And

12:25Oti: then she wanted to find something new, something better. And it was always back and forth. And I didn't really understand how this would end for her and whether or not she'll find the peace or or or whatever she's that she was looking for. But we come to see her do give one last push. Yeah. One last thing that should leave as legacy.

12:45KT: Mhmm. Teaching all the women in the camp to defend themselves. And the children. She And the children. She had them ready for possible situations. Yeah. Yeah. That was like that was the most Lagertha thing they could have done. Oh, absolutely. It's like the opposite. Go and check out our Key and Peele episode, Friends and Lovers. But it's like that sketch where Jordan Peele's character has retired and he thinks they want him out of retirement. It was the opposite because Lagertha was retired, but naturally,

13:14KT: she had the skills and she has that charisma and people just want to warm to her and get to know her. Right? How do you feel that she died at the hands of one of Ragnar's sons?

13:14Oti: Yeah. A doped-up Hvitserk, stabbed her multiple times thinking that it was Ivar.

13:30KT: Also, the fact that, you know, Ragnar many, many, many times, but in the specific time, he stepped out and stayed in a marriage, right, with Aslaug. So to have the new iteration of his seed kill her, that I don't know if it's poetic, but it was definitely tragic.

13:30Oti: It was tragic, but it was foretold. You know, we always knew that it was going to be a son of Ragnar that will bring will be the end of Lagertha. And

13:59Oti: for it to be Hvitserk being doped up, I always assumed it will be Ivar because Ivar was so close to The Hvitserk. Yeah. And I thought he always swore that he'd kill Lagertha the first chance he gets. Yeah. So for Hvitserk, who was a bit laid back in that approach, he did appreciate, you know, of course, definitely, Aslaug was a mother. He was sad. There wasn't that strong emotion towards seeking revenge.

14:25KT: Yeah. But I think that's what made it more aggravating. I think it was more frustrating because it's like, pull your head in, mate. What what the fuck are you doing? This is our Lagertha, our ever eternal Lagertha. How dare you?

14:38Oti: Oh, it spent a solid 10 episodes then dealing with Hvitserk's doped up state Yeah. Where it was just super annoying to me. Everyone. It was super annoying to me seeing him waste whisked about just not doing anything for the show and just being in this state throughout, It you it was just a matter of, you either pull your head in, do something about it, or suddenly to say, walk out.

14:38KT: Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely agree.

15:11KT: So it was it was really frustrating. It was really frustrating and it was hard to get through that scene because the writing was on the wall. And as you said, it was foretold. If I guess you can ask us later how Oti and I do the Seer role play outside of the podcast. But yeah. So we knew it was happening and it was hard to get through that scene. But what then follows is the procession of paying legacy and life to Lagertha, which was absolute it was visually

15:46KT: stunning Yeah. As well. There was there was nothing more it's it's definitely one of the landmarks in this series.

15:52Oti: Oh, and I think the most tear-jerker moment for me was, Bjorn making it just in time.

15:57KT: Oh baby Bjorn, how dare you grow into such a strong Blair Underwood Ironside.

16:10Oti: Wow. Yeah. That was one of the like I did he knew. He knew something was up. Mhmm. Immediately got there, he sensed no. He sensed Lagertha dying. Hurry. Hurry. Something's fucked up just happened. And when he got there, he knew. No one needed to tell him. And I was like, yeah, that was that a moment for the fans. Oh, absolutely.

16:31KT: It's it's one of the purest things reflecting on Bjorn's relationship with Lagertha as well as Ragnar. Well, he chose to go with Lagertha as a kid. He did. There were so many beautiful flashback scenes in the final season. And call a fan service, I call it Oti's spanking my ass. Yeah. But I absolutely love Lagertha and I love how they treated her story arc with so much respect and she deserved so much because we knew there was going to be a war

17:06KT: between the brothers. So it was nice to just lay Lagertha to rest, let her have her moment and then completely fall into the mud in Rampage.

17:17Oti: Fully agreed. I think one of the most disappointing things for me is that I knew probably this was never on the cards, but what if just all the fucking brothers got along? No. No.

17:33KT: And that would be a disservice to the show because they're all distinct individual characters except for Ubbe. He was a terrible carbon copy. Carbon now. Hey. Like you said, when we covered Snowfall, at least I'm consistent in how I felt about the characters when we first recorded our episode of Vikings. But let's go through the sons of Ragnar. And I guess as we're talking about each son and the proximity characters, let's see what we think sort of traits that they

18:08KT: inherited from Ragnar. So of course, we're going to start with King Bjorn, Blair Underwood, Ironside. This is going to confuse historians if this is the only record of Vikings, the TV show in the future.

18:08Oti: He definitely got a warrior sort of chops from Ragnar.

18:25KT: He is not

18:25Oti: and the venturing spirit and the venturing sort of adventure spirit from Rollo, who I think might be the dad.

18:32KT: Yeah. We did talk about daddy Rollo. Daddy Rollo indeed. We did talk about him. Oh, why did you mention that? I hate that his storyline just fucking fizzled.

18:46Oti: It bothers me. They they did bring him back only for him to be chased away like, we don't need you, mate. Go back. Yeah. Don't know. Expected season six to be a year where we saw at least a bit more role in

18:59Oti: what he would do with the brothers or at least with Bjorn because we know how close they were. He was so Viking, though. Like, at points, he felt more Viking than Ragnar. I definitely expected him to play a bigger part. It was disappointing that he came, and I think one of the aspect or the angle they're trying to play is maybe he was the father. And Lagertha did step up on Ragnar Uh-huh. Which he did. But

18:59KT: Alright. Well,

19:23KT: it's not it's not it's not like Ronda didn't do it. Ronda did it a million times. When you're out in the way, don't think I'm not. Wow.

19:37KT: Yeah. I I guess it's just one of those rare but unfortunate moments in regards to characters that we wanted to flesh out a little bit more. But in regards to Bjorn, we have followed baby Bjorn since the start of this series. And to see him grow into the man that he became and the immortalized man and legend that he will continue to live on, at least on TV screens,

20:05KT: I think he was dutifully addressed in every way.

20:05Oti: He was. He was. And I think a lot of the times we had more of a connection, at least for me, I had more of a connection with Bjorn than I did with the other brothers. Agree. Just because he was always there from the start of the show and having that sort of storyline and character background with him interacting with other people, there was always that connection that it was always him that was meant to lead.

20:32KT: So let's talk about what we think was inherited from Ragnar. I don't necessarily agree. I wouldn't say that Bjorn is is the the best warrior out of the sons.

20:32Oti: I'd say he is. Hands down.

20:32KT: That's a tasty cliffhanger. I'm not gonna say which son it is until we get to that son. I don't believe I think that Bjorn has the gusto, he has the plomo o plata, he has the cajones, but I don't think he's the best warrior in regards to the brothers.

21:03Oti: Mate, why are you watching?

21:06KT: I'm watching Narcos.

21:08Oti: What knock off version of Vikings are you watching?

21:12KT: The dumb one that tried to be funny. Wow. That was terrible. That's Cleveland again. Yeah. I wouldn't say he's the biggest warrior. I would say he is the most brave of Ragnar's sons. He is willing to take a leap without knowing that there's a safety net there. That's what I would say that Bjorn has inherited. And also the ability to bring people together. You know, most famously in the final episodes

21:43KT: where he is able to reunite all of Norway. And even on a smaller scale, when he came back to Kattegat and his own men that he used to fight with side by side started attacking him. And he's like, what are you doing? You're my brothers. What are we doing here? That was fucking powerful. He has the ability to to appeal to his common man non toxically. Right? But toxically, he does have a Terrence Howard nature to him that he got from Ragnar. Like, he treated women like bitches pretty much.

22:19KT: He did. He did. He got angry when when women and men were, you know, mistreating Lagertha, but he did the same fucking pimp shit. He pretty much was Ragnar in that regard. Yeah.

22:31Oti: He he bounced around. Was it Torvi, Gunnhild? Ingrid. Yeah. There's been a slew of them. A slew. Yes. Most suit to be a slew. And he wasn't a good he wasn't a good father either.

22:44KT: He was a terrible father. Oh, would we say Ragnar is a terrible father? Yeah. He was pretty absent. He was an absent father. Hey, kids. I'm going out for a pack of opioids. I'll be back.

22:58Oti: Because I don't think he saw I don't think he saw the four kids until they were like all grown when he did come back to Kattegat. When he was like, who wants to be king? And then seeing Ivar crawl around a big like, oh, you are recognizable.

23:15KT: I couldn't miss you, my son. And that's when Sigurd was still alive. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Man, I don't think I would be able to recognize the actor that played Sigurd. He barely got any time, the poor guy. Mhmm. Let let's let's talk a bit about Bjorn's orbit. We did talk about in the first episode covering one to five, we talked about him and Halfdan in Morocco having their fun little adventures where they were eating very rare delicacies. Mhmm.

23:50KT: I wanna talk about him and his conflict between King Harald. Harald wanted to be king of Norway.

23:56Oti: Yeah. But He had gone about it since the since he was introduced into the show. Yeah. It was his thing. So for them to be for it to be promised by all of to Bjorn, he was like, that's a betrayal. I'm the one who's been beating this drum for all this time. Yeah. He felt a way about it, and we knew how he'd manipulate everyone around him to finally be him.

24:17KT: Well, I I think it's also because he did have that inadequacy truly, but in his sort of feeling towards Ragnar. And the fact that Ragnar has died, but he's still feeling the effects of the popularity of Ragnar. What King Harald wasn't realizing, he was discounting how much the people loved Bjorn. It wasn't just because he was a son of Ragnar. He grew into his own identity and gained the respect of the people.

24:47Oti: Yeah. He'd done a lot in that regard, you know, he'd even adventured and done his own missions. And for Harald, King Harald like, he was just super jealous. Yeah. You know, if if a woman was interested in Bjorn, he'd be like, no, I want you just because. Yeah. But even with his brother, he got jealous as well. It was weird.

25:10KT: I think he just didn't get enough attention. He didn't get enough hugs.

25:14Oti: Yeah. And I think one of the most telling thing at least for him is when it came down to Bjorn and his brothers Yeah. Bjorn couldn't put himself to kill one of his own. Yeah. But that's the difference where Harald did. You know, he he he killed his brother. And when they're having that conversation, he was like, yeah, I couldn't do it. And well, mate, you did. Yeah. So

25:36Oti: it just showed you that contrast of maybe maybe he he does regret it. He does regret it. He's super alone now because he had he doesn't have a confidant. He doesn't trust Bjorn as well as could throw him. Mhmm. And it's just one of those little moments where you realize that there's nothing for him other than just being a conniving piece of shit.

25:55KT: Yeah. Pretty much. He was a sad little man and I guess he didn't realize he was a supporting character, if you'll pardon the pun. And he thought he was the Tenet protagonist. Right? But I guess in relation to Tenet, he had it all backwards. Am I a film podcaster motherfuckers? But yeah, Bjorn also had a very beautiful moment in the series and he really lived and fulfilled the prophecy because all throughout the season people like, Ironside, Ironside. It was like, Remember the Titans, but it was Remember Bjorn,

26:36Oti: Ironside.

26:38KT: Wow. Right? Yep. Love me a Denzel, I'll tell you that much. Let's go to the next character. I love Bjorn and I'll always love Bjorn. But aside from Bjorn, Ivar is my fucking favorite. He's my absolute favorite. Go and check out El Hoyo, Platform for English speakers, including myself, or really any moments where we talk about social class or any sort of underdog story. Because once I'm bought into the premise, I am ready to go in a bloody blood bath. And that is exactly where I am with Ivar. What do we think Ivar

27:17KT: inherited from Ragnar? His ruthlessness?

27:20Oti: I think think Ivar was more ruthless than Ragnar.

27:25KT: Oh, absolutely.

27:27Oti: I'm not sure. I'm not sure what Ragnar saw in Ivar because we know that Ivar's the only one that agreed to go with Ragnar then. Yeah.

27:35KT: And he made him the little crutches. Mhmm. Yeah.

27:39Oti: So in that regard, they had this weird sort of relationship. But to me, I can't see I feel like his ruthlessness was way more than what Ragnar had. He didn't care who he stepped on. Yeah. Be his brothers, be a Lagertha, don't fucking care. So it was cloak and dagger shit. Exactly. Mhmm. And I don't think Ragnar would ever do that because he was more about family,

28:03Oti: get some land, settle down. He never got to do that. He never got to achieve that. And he was all just forced into weird battles all the time, you know? And I don't know. What what do you reckon he got from him?

28:03KT: Well, it's exactly like you're saying, you know, at the center, we have Ragnar and

28:20KT: all of his qualities are drawn out of his sons. So the good or the bad sort of qualities that he had never fully got realized. The same way you said he was looking for land to settle in, never fully got realized. He did have a very morbid approach to things. He had a terrible way of treating people. And really, the only example of the blood eagle that we saw in this series was from Ragnar.

28:47Oti: A dissolved blood eagle, though.

28:47KT: Oh, absolutely

28:50KT: deserved. Deserved and well learned if you're nasty. But what I'm saying is Ragnar did have that quality to him. He has all of the qualities that his son has, but I don't think they were taken as far. They weren't fully realized because he didn't have a full life. Right? His life was cut short. So in that instance, I would say that Ivar did go further than what we saw Ragnar do, but it wasn't necessarily

29:18KT: out of the realms of what Ragnar could have done if he had continued. And you also forget that Ivar is also very smart. And anyone that had any sort of military strategy held no candle to Ivar. True. He did get

29:36Oti: Maybe that's what he got from Ragnar because I think his ruthlessness was just amplified to a degree where I thought it's just a unique it's a unique feature to him.

29:36KT: But didn't you see that Ragnar

29:49KT: got Ivar to his final form saying fuck everyone else, you know who you are, Let yourself be who you are. True.

29:58Oti: And it was one of those moments where he'd lost Athelstan, and that just drove his father in the works, and it just demotivated him to shit. You know? He did not know he'd lost a lot of faith in everything that he believed in.

29:58KT: I'm gonna do a Twitter poll. Did Ragnar love more

30:16KT: than you love Christianity? Because I'm not sure.

30:24Oti: I thought Stan was Ragnar's day one, mate. Oh, wow. But he he did get his military chops because Ragnar was intelligent as well. Mhmm. That's an aspect where yeah. I could see that. Oh, absolutely.

30:42KT: You know, Ivar kind of explores the Silk Road and we see Prince Oleg, the prophet, as well as Prince Igor.

30:53Oti: Man, Oleg gay? Yeah. He was a problem. He was a big problem.

30:53KT: But he was giving me like muy caliente

31:01KT: Oberyn vibes, like Pedro Pascal vibes. Yeah. It's like, why am I aroused and scared at the same time?

31:10Oti: I didn't get the arousal, but yeah, I could see the Oberyn vibes. It's just more that he was so manipulative.

31:20KT: Oh, yes. You could not trust anything he says. Well, I'm pretty sure one of the first speeches he gave to Ivar was how he killed his own wife. It's like, okay.

31:29Oti: Yeah. And he got a wife that looks like Ivar's ex. Yeah. He was always playing mind games. Oh, absolutely. You'd never really understood where he stood or what he believed in or what he wanted to achieve. And he didn't care about Igor. Like, was just keeping him around to have that sort of So he could have the title. Vicarious

31:47KT: power. Yeah. Yeah. He tortured his own brother. Like the way he treated and tortured his brother, absolutely. Wow. He was a problem. And but I feel like

31:59Oti: Ivar was able to handle him. Yeah. But at other brother? Any other brother? No chance, bruv. But at that time when we introduced to Oleg, I'd already fallen out of this Ivar Lovin'. I was like, mate, I'm ready for Ivar to just disappear.

32:12KT: But did you ever fall in love with Ivar? I feel like you didn't. I feel like you didn't get a chance and then he killed Sigurd and you're fuck this kid. No.

32:22Oti: He was always toying about. And by the time he'd reached Oleg, he'd he'd waged war against his own people. Yeah. Know? He he'd done a lot of shit. He was he killed a seer. He he was higher off his own fumes. Mhmm. And he thought he'd gotten this girl pregnant without even sleeping with her.

32:41Oti: Like, the aspects of Ivar that was like, mate, you you you are intelligent. You're supposed to be this brilliant mind. And she keep on falling for such ridiculous things.

32:41KT: Well, think because he didn't really get to develop her her, his sexuality.

32:56KT: And I think that was a big sore spot for him. Her her.

32:56Oti: But then why let someone use you like that?

32:56KT: Because for that one moment, he felt like he satisfied a pretty gal.

33:05Oti: Maybe so, man. Like, the way he turned against his own people, killed a lot of people who dared question him. I'd already fallen out of this Ivar Lovin'. And by the time it got to Oleg, I was like, mate, you deserve this guy because this guy is way more manipulative and vindictive than you are.

33:25KT: Yeah. But he got the upper hand on Oleg. He did. I feel like you're painting my Ivar in a terrible light. He did some shit. Yeah. But so did everyone else except for Ubbe because he's fucking useless.

33:38Oti: No one did as much shit as Ivar.

33:38KT: But he felt pain. Me, he always felt, you know, he he had everything to prove from day one. Yeah. He had to prove everything that he's worth. He had to prove he had the tactical norms. He had to do all these things.

33:38Oti: And I understand, you know, there's a lot of resentment. I get that. But for you to cast aside everything else and everything, it doesn't even matter.

33:38KT: No. It's in spite of everything else. All of the mountains that were ahead of him, he overcame them, actually.

34:11KT: How dare you? Ivar has the best story arc in Vikings.

34:17Oti: Oh, man. He

34:19KT: as much as we love Bjorn, he was born into greatness. Having Ragnar as a dad and Lagertha as your mother, you you were born to succeed. Like you said, it was pretty much laid out for him that he was going to inherit Norway. Right? Ivar wasn't given that. He's that villain, but he's villainized because of what people see he doesn't have. All of his shortcomings. Anytime he tried to color in the lines, no respect.

34:47Oti: He didn't even try to hold the crayon. He wasn't coloring anything. He saw the crayons lying on the table and he was like, fuck that. I'm gonna use my my knife instead, you know? I don't know. I don't know why you love him so much.

34:47KT: Because I can see beyond

35:02KT: the DC editing that there was humanity to Ivar's character.

35:09Oti: Just the only thing humanity the only thing that he showed his humanity is in his dealing with Igor, where I don't think we saw him care about anyone as much as he did the kid.

35:16KT: Because he saw a kid that was vulnerable and no one was looking after him. He saw he projected his feelings to that I saw him being truly vulnerable and him caring about someone other than himself.

35:28Oti: But at that point, he'd already lost everything. So what is the challenge in that? The the most difficult thing would be when he was king of Kattegat for him to care that much.

35:28KT: Okay. Let me 60 Minutes sound bite you if you're nasty.

35:47KT: Do you believe that any other brother had gone through more worse shit than Ivar did and constantly, like, work his way back up after continuously being knocked down and knocked down. Do you believe any other brother had gone through the shit that Ivar did?

35:47Oti: No.

35:47KT: Well, come and sit on my lap and I'll show you some love then because there you go. The Wire reference.

36:11KT: I feel like we're at an impasse. The only other thing is you kept saying Ivar Lovin' and I have a idea for a spin off of Grease with Ivar Lovin'. Ivar Lovin'.

36:11Oti: So are we gonna talk about Ubbe?

36:11KT: Why do I share these notes with you? I could have easily just taken Ubbe out.

36:33Oti: He is.

36:37KT: Look at you trying to prepare yourself to say the biggest lie in TV history.

36:42Oti: Oh. He is the closest thing to Ragnar on the show.

36:42KT: Visually, yes.

36:42Oti: Visually, intellectually, not not so much as the warrior aspect of it.

36:42KT: I think Ubbe was quite crap being a warrior. He was competent enough, fine,

37:00KT: but he wasn't their best. Visually, he looked like Ragnar.

37:04Oti: Let's give on what I mean. Like, he's

37:04KT: Let's move on.

37:04Oti: From from from Ragnar's passion and what we knew of Ragnar for all those seasons. He's the only one that I really, really understood and took that on board. Ubbe is season one Ragnar where he enjoyed being a farmer, the end.

37:26KT: Is that Ubbe?

37:26Oti: He's the only one that was willing to carry out the father's vision.

37:26KT: No. But then again, there were so many facets to Ragnar. So you can't reduce Ragnar to that. There were so many different facets of Ragnar. There was Overlaying on the fundamental aspect of him. But there was Ragnar the navigator where he invented the compass. That's Bjorn. There's Ragnar waging war inside and outside of Norway. That's Ivar.

37:50Oti: But those are like three episodes out of the fucking season. The rest of it was him trying to find himself and trying to understand why he was here. And no one does that more than Ubbe.

37:57KT: Do you remember the name of the Jonas brother that no one remembers?

37:57Oti: Peter or some shit?

37:57KT: The court rests, your honor. His name his name is Kevin Ubbe Jonas. And he is not married to Priyanka Chopra Jonas.

38:18Oti: Oh, wow.

38:21KT: No. Ubbe is useless. But if I could live one of the brothers' lives, I would live Ubbe's life. Just living in the land and and then minding my business and having no dramas for the rest of my life. That's that's as much credit as I can give to Ubbe.

38:21Oti: No one uses his head more than him. I think he thinks about things critically.

38:42Oti: And even when they'd found the new land, you know, they'd met up with a Ministry of Americans, only he could understand the implications of that. Only he could understand the implications of finding this new land with so much resources. That wasn't theirs. And neither did he want to colonize.

39:01KT: Got me. I'm a mustache-twirling, colonizing villain.

39:03Oti: And, you know, it it made sense that he's the one to find Floki. Mhmm. Because I think part of Floki was understanding his limitations because we knew Floki was super flawed. Floki was one of the worst characters Hi. For the past four seasons.

39:18KT: Okay. You're saying the worst things about Floki and the best things about Ubbe.

39:25KT: And I don't care for it, sir. I do not care for it.

39:25Oti: Wait. Floki was all about the gods. Like Ivar, I will not stand for this. Floki was all about the gods and to his detriment, you know. He lost he lost Ragnar's love because of that nonsense. He lost his wife and his kids. Mate, he killed Athelstan and we knew that just killed whatever feelings Ragnar had for him.

39:25KT: Bravo.

39:50KT: Encore, Floki. Encore. Alfred is still alive and kicking. Go and find him. Well, we already shared what our thoughts about Floki and how he fell out of favor with Ragnar, but it was nice seeing Floki again. I must say I did get tearful seeing Floki because we didn't think we would see him again. Right? Especially everything that kicked off in Greenland.

40:18Oti: Yeah. Yeah. It it it was it was really mysterious, his disappearance, especially when we thought that he'd probably become the new Seer. And then Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But there's a lot of hinting around that. And I expected him to fulfill that role especially when Ivar killed the Seer, but we never got that because he just disappeared up until the last episode.

40:39KT: Well, I I guess he wouldn't become the Seer now because pretty much everyone disbanded, you know, the Viking mythology

40:47Oti: except for Ivar. Ivar was really the only one that clung to it even in death. We see Ubbe realizing that, you know, maybe not the old ways don't work here and they need to start a new chapter. Like you said, even when he had a chance to do a blood eagle, he thought better of it. He was like, yeah, not gonna do that now. It's time to start anew and just become different and new people. Yeah. Because delivering

41:10KT: a blood eagle's gotta fuck you up, surely. Yeah.

41:14Oti: Yeah.

41:15KT: Just rounding out Ubbe, we do love Torvi. It was sad to see one of their kids die, you know, when we reference back to Lagertha in the houses away from everywhere. And that was due to the hands of the men that was spared their lives, But with disgrace because ideally you want to die so you can enter Valhalla. Right? But I wanna talk a little bit about Flatnose and I wanna talk about our men, Titus Pullo, Blackbeard, or in Vikings, Othere. Mhmm.

41:54Oti: Well, we get to see this mystery oh, this mystery of where Floki is. We think Flatnose had something to do with it, but we don't really understand his motivations. We know he wants to be king because he feels like, I'm deserved. Mhmm. It's my right. And it's one of those things that, you know, it's it's it's it's just pride.

42:15KT: You'd be like one of those people dwindling in the wilderness with Moses and Prince of Egypt.

42:21Oti: Yep. But it makes sense that he makes a lot of decisions that are just self centered. Oh, yeah. A whale washes up. A fucking whale. Mhmm. And he doesn't even wanna share that shit because it landed on this side of the this side of the land. And even when it makes no sense when you can't even eat it all before it, like, goes bad. Yeah. So just share.

42:43KT: Yeah. I really didn't care for him. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. But I think it also highlights that there's always one motherfucker in the crew that, you know, thinks they're better than the others and is in some way entitled to it. Yeah. It was nice seeing our Titus Pullo though. Yeah.

43:00Oti: He was. He is quite the mysterious man in this.

43:00KT: Oh, as always in my dreams, Oti.

43:00Oti: Because you don't understand why he knows so much information about everyone and everything. Yeah. And he seldom gives anything away.

43:12KT: And we get to see don't try and Raiden him. I love Titus Pullo or Othere.

43:20KT: Don't try and make him a Raiden in this.

43:20Oti: No. He wasn't a Raiden. He wasn't to that extent.

43:20KT: Oh, good.

43:20Oti: But we do see the clash between Ubbe fully not understanding or knowing that there's definitely something wrong here. Mhmm. He couldn't really trust him that much because he would only tell the truth that made sense at the time. Yeah. He would would be like revealing the truth at a snail's pace.

43:45KT: Mhmm. Mhmm. Oh, absolutely agree. Let's finish off with I wouldn't say the lesser of the sons, but in regards to character development I'd say the lesser. Alright. But we did just talk about Ubbe. Let's talk about Hvitserk. And I will say he inherited, well, first of all, Ragnar's opioid addiction. But, you know, like you were mentioning before, yes, Ragnar had an addiction, but it wasn't to the point that Hvitserk had. Right? But I just I I do believe that everyone had the traits of Ragnar. They just continued to live on

44:29KT: in those traits that wasn't so good. But Hvitserk, I would say is the best warrior out of the brothers. Because if you see them actually fight, Hvitserk is really that guy.

44:29Oti: Wow. You really did get a discounted version of Vikings.

44:29KT: Hey, ladies and gentlemen, we've all heard of Drunken Master. He's your Drunken Master.

44:53Oti: Man, Bjorn would decimate him in a second. Nah, bro. Nah, bro. Nah, bro. What about, man? Nah, bro. Wow. We'd call Billy Blunts and he'd wipe the flow of Hvitserk.

45:11KT: Are you done? Are you most welcome? Hvitserk is the best warrior. I don't know why you can't compliment. You seem to compliment Ubbe for no reason. So No. Hvitserk just had a problem. He couldn't understand who he was. There was still value in him, though. He was a Johnny man. Like, he he just

45:30Oti: he was always looking for himself. Who he was was his purpose. And I wouldn't say him being a warrior was a star because he wasn't.

45:30KT: Well, Ubbe stopped looking for himself because he didn't like what he saw.

45:44KT: You see how this is not productive, my love.

45:44Oti: He always he always tried to do something unexpected,

45:50Oti: at least to push himself to find out more about himself. You know, like choosing to go with Ivar instead of Ubbe, you know, even though it didn't make sense to him.

45:50KT: Yeah. But what you're not understanding about Hvitserk is he had value, and you don't understand that he has value. The same way that Bjorn had his vices with women,

46:09KT: Hvitserk had his vices with drugs, but he was still dutiful as a warrior. Go back and watch it. He was the warrior of the brothers.

46:09Oti: I wouldn't say that. But

46:09KT: Yeah. But you've been wrong many times, and you'll continue to be wrong many times.

46:30Oti: No. I take your point. I take your point. I disagree with it, but I take it.

46:30KT: Don't need to take my anything. Thank you.

46:30Oti: It's just one of those things that, you know, we get to see him go through this phase of of moaning and and drug addiction and not really doing much. He we see him being tortured and and traumatized by what Ivar did to his lover. Mhmm. Thora. Yeah. And he's always is just playing keeps on playing over and over and over in his mind.

47:01Oti: You know, when he killed Lagertha, I was like, yeah. Of course, it's this bitch ass person to do it. You know? I wouldn't take it as him being a warrior even though he was in some he was in a fucked up state. It's just one of those things, like, was the it was the least expected sort of brother. You know? I'd I'd put him in either above his fuck in terms of being a warrior.

47:20KT: That's

47:24Oti: You can accept my hot takes now.

47:27KT: Did did you come here for nuance and quality, friends and lovers? Because apparently, Oti can only offer whatever the fuck he's offering right now.

47:27Oti: Facts.

47:27KT: Oh. Just because he say facts?

47:47Oti: Oh. So going back to Hvitserk. Mhmm. It it it was good at least at the end of it, saying I ever die. No. We see him embrace or or or give up the old ways and getting I wouldn't even say embrace like, he was like, maybe he did it to survive to do something different. He'd reached a crossroad. We saw him I don't think we saw enough of him contemplating religion

48:17Oti: or questioning the gods for him to switch and make it seem as if it was always in his mind. Maybe it was just a thing that he thought, you know, might as well. I've lost my brothers. What the fuck can I do now? Alright.

48:29KT: Since unfortunately, this will be the last time we're talking about this show, Michael Hirst is working on Vikings: Valhalla. So we will definitely pick it up from there, but that will be a hundred years after the setting or the golden age as Queen Ingrid said in the narration. So let's finish off with our general thoughts, general feels in regards to Vikings overall, and then we'll finish off in our last segment. Oti.

48:29Oti: I loved it.

49:00Oti: I think it's one of the shows just because we were giving in bits. We tried to extend it as much as possible Yeah. So that when we started watching it, we could binge the whole thing. But then even at binging, it felt really sad going through the episodes and realizing the things all slowly winding down. And we kept on taking breaks just because of all the emotions and the feels. It's been such a big part of where we've done what we've done as a podcast and where we started or where we introduced

49:32Oti: or what I introduced to KT before all this Aw. To start watching. So everything was coming to a close, and it was emotional. And it's just one of those shows that if you've reached this point and you've not watched it, give it a go because you can't go wrong with it. And I'll bet there's some people out there that'll claim it's historically inaccurate. Yeah, Tom, of history of Aotearoa. You're not here for that, I think. Part of it is is to have that entertainment value and it brings that in tenfold.

50:04KT: Oh, absolutely. Thank you so much, Kevin Ubbe Oti Jonas. Yeah. I echo everything that Oti said. It is a wonderful series, much better than It's a Wonderful Life.

50:25Oti: It's actually I'll even compare the two, mate.

50:29KT: Because one is wonderful and one is actually it's not bad, it's just not a Christmas film, which we've talked about. If you want to treat yourself, if you want to tantalize yourself, this is absolutely the series to do it. I feel like you've audibly bloody eagled yourself if you've listened to our first episode and this and you haven't watched the show. But your Jonathan Rhys Meyers penance is that you will promise to watch the show anyway. And please make sure you report back once you've done that as well. Oti the Seer

51:05KT: will know if you're nasty. Yeah. Come and lick your hands to see what you've done. I thought it happens the other way around.

51:12Oti: Oh, yeah, actually. Well, that's just an added bonus. You're giving

51:18KT: your licks for free.

51:20Oti: I love the licks.

51:21KT: We do love the licks and let's just get into our next segment. There's nothing else to say there. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference, Lickiote.

51:32Oti: I've been thinking hard about this. And I think one of the shows that I hold in such high regard is Rome. It does. Yeah. It's it's two seasons long. It's really, really, really good. Give it a go. You won't be disappointed.

51:32KT: It also taught Oti how to flick the bean and lick the bean. Yeah.

51:55KT: What licks my bean is Spartacus. We do have an episode on Spartacus. Make sure you go check it out. Splooshy award winning Spartacus. And I am absolutely sure we will be covering Rome very soon. Right, my love? All right. If you wanna learn more about licking seas and beans and all of that sort of nonsense on Twitter and Instagram, we're at for your ref pod. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on Uber shitbags

52:24KT: podcast if you like to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week.

52:31Oti: See you. Squoon.