Vikings – Ivar always wanted a glorious death

Full transcript of Vikings – Ivar always wanted a glorious death.

0:25KT: Hi there, and welcome to For Your Reference podcast where we talk about all things TV shows, movies, and documentaries. Today, we will be talking about the History Channel's epic show Vikings. So very exciting. This show has been out since 2013 when it debuted, and it's been out for five seasons. So we thought this would be a really good time because they wrapped up on season five. We've just finished Viking season five. Yes. We have. And it has the most beautiful love story ever since Twilight.

1:01Oti: That would be my way.

1:03KT: It's a common thing. It's what the kids are saying.

1:03Oti: Oh, yeah?

1:03KT: Yeah. Kids ten years ago. I don't know what the kids are saying now. I have no idea.

1:11Oti: Yeah. I wonder what well

1:14KT: We're not the meme we're not the meme podcast. We're not the young meme podcast, so probably go click over somewhere else. I guess it's safe to say that there will be spoilers in this podcast. If you haven't tried watching Vikings, where have you been? Hello. Welcome. But where have you been? You need to get onto it. So definitely, there'll be spoilers today. If you haven't watched it, please go and watch it.

1:41KT: Leave your children alone. Leave your girlfriends alone. Leave your boyfriends alone and watch the show. And then once you've got done watching the show, come back to the podcast and have a nice little chat with us because we've got all the banter here in regards to all things Vikings. So just to start us off, I'm going to give a very simple overview courtesy of Wikipedia. So if anyone's familiar with Vikings and the whole Viking period with the famous figure of Ragnar Lothbrok, this show does follow that format.

2:14KT: Okay? So season one is really the exploits of the legendary Viking chieftain, Ragnar Lothbrok, and his crew, and later those of his sons. So in a nutshell, that's what season one is. We're definitely going to break it down because season one was amazing, and it'll definitely hook you in. Moving on, season two. So the second season follows Ragnar's struggles with other Vikings and his transition from earl to king of Kattegat. It also talks about their further raids into England,

2:49KT: and then being offered land to actually settle in England as well. So that's where season two takes us. Going through the season three, we talk about the development of Ragnar's family. All of the children hiding everywhere. They all emerge. And talking about intermingling more with English affairs as the Vikings continue to try and settle a life into England. Season four, which is quite interesting because I'm pretty sure season one had eight episodes, then season two and three had 10 episodes, and then they fully

3:29KT: took it to the skies with 20 episodes in season four. So a lot happens. So in season four, we see the battle between Ragnar and Rollo. And who doesn't love a good brother on brother fight? This this show has a lot of it. So we're talking about Ragnar and Rollo in France, Bjorn's raid into the Mediterranean, which is one of the best subplots, not in Vikings, just in general. We love we love a good Bjorn Ironside. And then invading England again because that's what they love to do. Season five,

4:09KT: which is where we currently are, so this is where you'll catch up to. It's a bit different. I don't know why I'm pausing. I did say there were going to be spoilers. We see the departure of our beloved Ragnar Lothbrok, Travis Fimmel, and it's sad. And I still haven't gotten over it, and I'm feeling the feels. So let's let's continue on.

4:35Oti: Wait. Season five?

4:37KT: Yes. Season five. Travis dies in season five. No. He dies in season four. So season five is different because he's no longer there.

4:48Oti: Oh, I thought you meant he dies in season five. I'm like, wait a minute. No. He doesn't.

4:53KT: You fact checking my Wikipedia?

4:53Oti: Yep.

4:53KT: Well, I don't trust me either, so good on you. And it really builds off on Ragnar's sons. Season four, you do see them as little teeny babies. But season five, they really do well, some of them come into their own as their own identities as well. And we'll definitely talk about this more. But it was interesting to see the dynamics between the brothers because we could see different personality traits of Ragnar in his sons.

5:30KT: Yes. We did. Yeah. So yeah. It's it's too tasty. Let's let's leave it for later. But you can really start to see, you know, they are Ragnar's sons. They just all have different pieces of the puzzle of Ragnar. Yeah. So there you go. There's the overall summary for Vikings as a series. Before we even get into that, I think it might be interesting to know at this point in time

5:59KT: well, first of all, did you watch Vikings when it first came out or did you watch it after? Like, what what was going on in the climate of you watching the Vikings and what influenced you to wanna even watch it in the first place?

6:12Oti: Because we had Game of Thrones come

6:16KT: In 2011?

6:17Oti: Yes. And I think two years later we had Vikings. 2013. So there was this period where there was a lot of buzz about Vikings because no one really expected a history show to be what Vikings was. Yes. Correct. So at the start of it, there was this hype, but then there was people who are kind of cautiously optimistic Yep. Knowing that if history are gonna do this, they have to do it right, they have to give it the budget that it deserves, and thus they did not fail.

6:54Oti: It it did start off slow and after the first episode, I was sold. Like, I knew this is going to be something great. Whether or not it was going to last this long was completely unknown to anyone.

7:14KT: But I think it it was funny, like, when you were telling me that a show Vikings was coming out on the History Channel, I just laughed it off because it just reminded me of all of the cheesy reenactments with their $2 costumes.

7:28Oti: Yes. And, yes, I expected to some degree that this would be that. Yeah. And it was breathtaking just seeing something completely different. I feel like they did it when Game of Thrones was pretty much dominating every single category. Like, it was just everything was about Game of Thrones. And then Yeah. Here you have something come out like an underdog. Vikings is an underdog. And people would say you're comparing apples to oranges with Vikings because they're completely different shows, but it's still they still took a part in trying to present something

8:11Oti: historic regardless of whether or not it's accurate. And I've got a lot of slack, I think, at the time because people were saying, if you're going to do a show about the Vikings, you need to stick to the source material and you need to be as accurate as you can be Yeah. Historically. And I completely disagree because when you're making a show, you're not thinking about, oh, I need to of course, you get the source material as your inspiration Uh-huh. But you have the freedom as a writer, as a director to massage that information

8:48Oti: to to make it more interesting. Otherwise, it's just another documentary and there's heaps of that on Vikings. On the History Channel.

8:52KT: On the History Channel. Well, I I guess that that's exactly right. You have creative license. So there there are times when, you know, you don't wanna sacrifice a good narrative because the facts just aren't there. Right? Yeah. So I guess that makes sense. Like, you know, the other day, we were reading an article about the fact that Ragnar died quite early on. And, you know, a lot of the scenes, which I won't talk about now, but a lot of the scenes that were iconic

9:26KT: to this show, to Ragnar's character and his sense of being and his whole majesty of a character was, in most cases, Bjorn. Like, it wasn't even Ragnar, but it doesn't matter because in that show, in that moment, it served its purpose. And it really made sense to what was going on at the current time in that story.

9:52Oti: I would I would argue that I feel like Ragnar died at the right time. I feel like if he continued being there, it would hinder the storyline because there's only there's an infinite amount of what Ragnar can achieve him as a passer, and we've seen him through the journey from season one till the fourth season Mhmm. Where he gets killed off, and I feel like a lot of people expected him to be killed off earlier because there was talks of him not being there in season three.

10:24KT: I I also feel like as well, he kind of and this breaks my heart to say because you've seen me tear up over this beautiful man, Ragnar. I I felt like they kept him on too long. I didn't care for his his his last few storylines of him running off and abandoning his family. And to me, that was all a bit unnecessary. And then he had his little concubine giving him that good herb. Like, I don't think that was necessary. Like, I get they needed to carefully and delicately transition the story from Ragnar

11:12KT: into Ragnar's legacy, which is his son's. I get that they needed to do that, but I feel like they just handheld us for way too long. It got to a point where I'm like, okay. What are you doing what are you doing to Ragnar? He's not at his full glory, but he's still here. What what are we trying to achieve here?

11:32Oti: I feel like it's more geared towards the fact that Ragnar they wanted to take us through the journey and to give us a picture of Ragnar's life coming full circle because Yep. He was battling with a lot of demons.

11:51KT: He was. And by the time The biggest demon was named Athelstan.

11:56Oti: Ugh. He loved Athelstan. And the fact that you don't like Athelstan love makes me love him even more. But that's why you started to hate Floki because Floki didn't like Athelstan. No. Floki Floki is a completely flawed character in my opinion.

12:15KT: Do you wanna do you wanna finish off Ragnar or you are you all Floki all day now? Okay. Let's let's leave Floki for now. I see the rage in your eyes.

12:26Oti: But Ragnar Ragnar Ragnar's story is is is so intricate in the way they set it up and there's so many nuances around it. Ragnar was constantly battling with the gods. Like, who's the true god? Is it the Christian god? Is it Odin? Is it, you know, is it the Viking gods? And I feel by the time he died, he had gone back to the Viking gods?

12:26KT: Do you think so?

12:26Oti: I feel like he did. Well, he didn't truly believe. I think he he

13:04KT: I don't think that's necessarily the case. I think Ragnar is a good example of the new age or the next generation of Viking, where he didn't necessarily just accept the Viking world for what it was. Even in the first season where you had the first king of Kattegat. You had the first king of Kattegat, and then you had little old unassuming Ragnar wanting to explore and raid different worlds. And he was told not to. And what did he say? He said, screw you guys. And then he went off into the night and raided unauthorized

13:43KT: in a different territory. Right? So I think that was just Ragnar's nature. He wasn't just going to accept tradition.

13:52Oti: Remember when he's in the last of his scenes when he was strung up in a cage and ready to be dropped down in a pit of slaves.

13:57KT: I don't think I'm ready to revisit that.

13:57Oti: Well Season five makes you revisit that, by the way.

13:57KT: I am still not over that.

14:12Oti: Well, there was some reference to him calling out to the gods. Right? Mhmm. And and what does that tell you? Like, it feels like to me he he came to the well, at least in the moment of his dying, like, he he he thought, oh, I might as well not I might as well, but maybe he was just scared. But Ragnar wouldn't be scared of death because that would be

14:12KT: If he was Christian, he would be.

14:40KT: If he was Viking, he would welcome it.

14:42Oti: Well, yeah. And he mentioned being going to Valhalla, so I'm assuming he embraced it.

14:51KT: I just wanna believe that we live in a fictitious world where Ragnar is sitting at the halls of Valhalla feasting with everyone he killed to get there. Yeah. That's what he would talk about. Speaking of I wanna digress for a second. Speaking of wanting to die a glorious Viking death, who what what was his name? The one that claimed to be Ragnar's son.

14:51Oti: Magnus.

14:51KT: Yeah. Queen Kwenthrith? Kwenthrith?

14:51Oti: Yep.

14:51KT: That only actually, let's talk about it. So she came out of nowhere, and there was a whole sequence where she needed to be saved.

15:37KT: And there's a scene where she urinates on Ragnar and it kinda cuts the scene from there. Do you or do you not believe that they had sex and that this is actual child?

15:49Oti: They do not have they do not have sex. Not at all.

15:49KT: Were you there?

15:49Oti: Yep. I was there. But Ragnar wouldn't lie about sleep well, he would, but he was open when confronted with Lagertha and Aslaug. Was Aslaug alive at the time? Yeah. Aslaug was still alive. Yeah. And he was like, no. I didn't sleep with that lady. But I feel like he if he did, he would have said.

16:21KT: Yeah. But Lagertha didn't find out about the affair with Aslaug until she put herself on a boat and showed that quite prominently she was with child, and that's when she found out. She didn't find out at the time. Well, Rugged and Ian tied it. I think that's where Bjorn stepped it up a level because he's a dick to women. I love me some Ironside, but he's a fucking dick.

16:21Oti: Yeah. He he he took that from Ragnar.

16:21KT: Exactly. So

16:53KT: for for all that it's worth, Ragnar does make the show. And even though he wasn't there for season five up until the end, but again, super spoiler town over here.

17:05Oti: Do you feel that, you know, The Office, like when Michael Scott left and and The Office just took a different tangent? It wasn't necessarily bad, just it was different. Do you feel like the Vikings did the same thing once Ragnar left?

17:05KT: Like I don't think so.

17:05Oti: You thinking were you sitting there thinking, oh, that is not a Viking that I started watching and it just feels empty now. Or not empty, but completely different from what you started enjoying from season one.

17:05KT: No. And it might just be the nature of the shows

17:38KT: because Ragnar was Vikings. Right? He encapsulated the show. Even though he wasn't there anymore, his legacy, not just his sons, but even his influence lived on when he was gone. But the difference is even though Ragnar was no longer there, they'll there was still a whole slew of characters that had dimension, that had substance, that could carry the story along. Yes. I miss Ragnar. But even at that point, they kept him for too long. So I was excited. And you could see, you know, Bjorn's been around, little baby Bjorn since the start.

18:18KT: And then you've got Ubbe, I think is the oldest one.

18:18Oti: Yep.

18:18KT: Then probably Hvitserk, and then you've also got Ivar.

18:18Oti: Yep.

18:18KT: My grand aunt Sigurd who

18:18Oti: Oh, Sigurd.

18:18KT: Who died. Yeah. I remember I was looking at a picture of all of them, and I'm like, who is this? Oh, it's Sigurd.

18:36Oti: Snake in the eyes. Snake in snake eyes. Oh, and before when when when they were having kids and Sigurd was born, and there was this I think the seer Yeah. Said that you'll have a son with a snake or a symbol of a snake. And when they saw that, I felt like Sigurd will play such a big part in this.

18:36KT: So did I. So did I.

18:36Oti: And for him to just die so so ridiculously, I was I was like, wait. Wait a minute. Did I miss something?

19:10KT: Yeah. No. Because we we saw Ivar strike him or throw a dagger, or he threw something. And I was like, See you next episode, Sigurd. He just died. I I guess Vikings, not to not to the level of, like, Spartacus, but Vikings did have a habit of just killing people. Like, not to the level of Spartacus because that that's just its own level, and we'll have to do a podcast on Spartacus. But in Vikings,

19:42KT: yeah, out of nowhere, they'll just pull someone out and just die. And I'm like, oh, okay. Fine. No worries. I didn't care about you. I wasn't emotionally attached to you from the time that I've been watching it.

19:55Oti: But they've killed some really big characters that you're like, oh, man. What is it called? What are they thinking here? Yeah.

20:01KT: And the ones that I wanted to die weren't dying. So but just to just to circle back to what we were saying earlier, you've got all of these characters that have so much dimension. Tell me you didn't wanna see more about Bjorn and Torvi. Tell me you didn't wanna see more about King Finehair and his brother and Bjorn's exploits in Morocco. Like, there was so much to explore in the world of Vikings. The Office, maybe just because it's like a comedy mockumentary, the other characters didn't really have any other dimension.

20:35KT: Like, Pam and Jim were already together. What more can Phyllis do? Like, Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration. Like, we get it. Right? They kind of didn't set it up to be sustainable after or when Steve Carell decided to leave. So from that point of view, I wouldn't say Vikings declined. I do think it's quite interesting that it seemed to ruin the pacing once they did a 20 episode stint in season four.

21:06Oti: Yes. Yes. It did ruin the pacing because now you have well, as much as I would love to see a lot of Viking episodes, I feel like they took the pacing. They they had a they had room to do a lot more fillers. Yeah. And that just completely ruined what we've been used to.

21:24KT: Mhmm.

21:25Oti: Because our episodes were we didn't watch season four I think from start to finish without taking a break. I think we took a couple of breaks before we went back to it. I think that's where our love started to just fragment a bit.

21:37KT: And that says a lot because Ragnar was still in the show. Oh, and that's when Floki was really being a dick. He was becoming unbearable.

21:37Oti: I do agree. I was about to stop watching Vikings just because I couldn't tolerate what

21:37KT: But he did he did me a solid. So Floki Floki is my man for life because he killed Athelstan. I feel like in perpetuity, he is good in my eyes.

22:06Oti: Can we talk about Floki now?

22:09KT: We can talk about Floki. We can talk about Floki, definitely. I just wanna point out our general feelings about the show. Season one, this intriguing, enchanting, very charming story about Ragnar and his goal to he didn't even wanna be the greatest, most powerful Viking. He just wanted to be him. He wanted to he was I think he was more curious than wanted for power, really.

22:09Oti: No. I think he wanted to be king of everything.

22:09KT: But not in, like, a dick swinging way.

22:49Oti: True. Not like farmhand.

22:49KT: There were Not not like farmhand. There were many times there were many times when he even told Bjorn, I just wanna be a farmer. You know what I mean? Like, I'm good with this. Just give me my land, and I will be a farmer. And that's what I really admired about Ragnar and the story. And we haven't even talked about the dynamic between Ragnar and Rollo, but we'll talk about the characters in a second. But, you know, just watching season one and, you know, I was

23:21KT: I'm an ancient history nut. Like, in high school, I took ancient history, and I learned about the Vikings. And you would already watch Vikings at this point, which you tend to do. You tend to just watch stuff without starting with me. But, you know, I'm over it. It's fun. Whatever. But even watching and you rewatching Vikings with me, I'd be like, this is inaccurate. This is wrong. This is inaccurate. I'm calling the History Channel. Right? You know, aside from that, it was amazing.

23:53KT: Like, it really blew my mind and it swept me away to a world that I never wanted to leave. Season one. Building on that, season two, you know, you even have getting in on it, killing his own kind. Like, it's all happening. And season two, I really, really liked. Agree?

23:53Oti: Yes.

23:53KT: Yes? So yeah. So season two is when they continue to further raid in England. And then season three is when you start to see the illegitimate

24:25KT: children and starting to set up the story. How are you feeling in season three? Were you still good with it?

24:25Oti: Yeah. Was still good with it. I was really excited because I knew the sons of Ragnar would be causing

24:36Oti: havoc, and I was really excited and eager to just see them grow up and starting to dominate and complete what the father had started.

24:45KT: Other things things that happened in season three is you had princess Judith confessing to Athelstan, and then them getting it on and her having his child. That all happened in season three as well. A lot happened. And then Bjorn had his first girlfriend, and she was with child during the time leading up to. And at the end of season three, that's when Floki admitted to Ragnar that he actually killed Athelstan. And that is very it was very pivotal because even before Ragnar knew who had killed Athelstan, he was in like, a deep depression.

25:31Oti: Yes. He was going through he was going through some issues. I can't remember exactly what he was going through. I think he wasn't really right. And then when Athelstan died, this just pushed him over the edge. Yeah. And the Ragnar we knew was completely lost at that point.

25:31KT: Agree.

25:31Oti: Though this bond, I'm not sure if they were in love with each other Uh-huh. In terms of physical and psychological, I guess.

26:07KT: I think Ragnar was just more free thinking than that. Like, love is love. Like, he he loved in every sense of the word. They literally brought him home to his own settlement. Oh, yeah. And while him and were having sex, he's got his little index feather, like, come hither. Come on, little Christian man. Let's corrupt you with our ideals. Yeah. So but but that that has nothing to do with, you know, like, traditional roles of sexuality. He's just like, hey,

26:42KT: you're a cool dude. I don't think Athelstan's a cool dude, but, you know, Ragnar's like, hey, you're a cool dude. Come and lay in my bed chambers. Come and tell me what's going on in that beautiful mind of yours. He was just free and open, and that's how he was with everything. He was free and open. He had curiosity. And by God, let him explore it. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So that's season three. And then season four, I still think the starting of season four was great. Because we're talking about

27:13KT: Ragnar and Rollo fighting in France. And you've got Bjorn in the middle Middle East? No. He was in Morocco. Mhmm. You got Bjorn there. That was quite a good season, and it started off very strong. But I think it started to get, like, a bit the pacing was ruined, essentially. Yeah. So you've got Bjorn going off on his little adventures, and it's amazing, and it's great. And I was really enjoying season four, but I think the pacing just got in the way, to be honest. And that's where

27:48KT: I won't speak on behalf of you, but that's where I started to fall a bit out of love or become a bit disenchanted with Vikings.

27:55Oti: I'm not sure what made them switch the format to from doing eight to 10 episodes.

28:03KT: 10 to 20. To 20 episodes. Yeah. But just to just to get back to the point, seasons one to three, I think we were utterly enthralled and head over heels with Vikings. Season four was still good. The plot points that they had, the main plot points they had were great, but it kinda dragged on for too long in my personal opinion. It just dragged on for too long. And then it got to a point where we kinda like gave up. Yeah. We just took a break. Sorry. We we gave up by taking a break.

28:41Oti: We took a break. I think we're also giving it some time to so that all the episodes can just

28:41KT: Come on now.

28:41Oti: And we can bake.

28:41KT: Come on now.

28:41Oti: No. Because it's a better way of watching it rather than being disenchanted with one episode and then waiting a week and being disenchanted by another episode. So waiting for all the episodes to air so we can actually just binge through it. Like we're doing with Attack on Titan season three.

29:02KT: Oh, yes. I'm I'm very, very excited. I'm very, very excited because that's what we're doing. We're banking it all up. We watched the first episode of season three, and it was literally fifteen minutes recap and five minutes sorry, three minutes of singing and then two minutes of new actual animation. So we're not doing that to ourselves again. But going back to Vikings, the reason why I wanted to point out our feelings,

29:34KT: with the journey and the show of Vikings is, you know, you guys might be in a very similar position where you've started to watch it and you kinda like, ugh, I don't know. Like, how many times do you wanna go to England? Like, really? We've seen this. Right? So I just wanna point out to say so we gave up nearing the end of like season four. And then once season five was out, we picked it up again. And then we slowly were watching season five. And then in quick succession,

30:08KT: it was episode after episode after episode, shut all the curtains, close the doors. This is what we're doing today. Right? Yeah. And by God, once we got to I'm getting chills now. Once we got to the finale of season five, it was worth it. The payoff was worth it. Season five was one of the best seasons of Vikings, I would say, in my opinion. And the reason why I would say season five one of the best seasons is because we are fully invested.

30:44KT: And so many of our beloved characters from the start come back. We didn't see Rollo for who knows how long, and he turned into an old grandpa. But we saw him again in this season, and we see so many characters that we've loved from so long reappearing in this season.

31:05Oti: Yeah. They showed Ripen as well towards the end to giving a

31:05KT: Oh.

31:05Oti: Talking to Bjorn.

31:13KT: Season five was absolutely amazing. And I know you're hesitant to say that because, you know, if not, then who? And who was Ivar the Boneless? I think you just had enough of him in season five. And again, I think that's just the pacing issue. They had 20 episodes. But he and we'll go through the characters. But he became just anything. He became anything the story needed to be. And I think that became a bit much to carry for the show.

31:47KT: But I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed seeing Ragnar's sons grow up. I enjoyed seeing how they interacted with each other and how they strategized for war. That was quite interesting as well. And I really I don't know. Seeing Rollo again, it was amazing. And having that and seeing Lagertha, but she was still in the season as well. But before we talk about the characters, can we just can we just talk about all of the Ragneresque moments of season five? So when we pick up and we find Lagertha again, there is the sequence

32:26KT: where through a vision, she actually sees Ragnar's final moments of life. At first, I didn't realize what was going on. Throughout the season, we were talking about Ragnar. And you could feel you could feel this reverence in the air when you were watching the series. And you're like, what what will become of his sons? You know, what will his legacy be? And before I realized that was Ragnar and he was in the cage. And I guess, I only really registered it was Ragnar because of the cage and because of that familiar scene,

33:11KT: his final scene. And then we see Lagertha, and I felt like I was Lagertha experiencing that and seeing Ragnar up in that cage. And then she's sitting as like King Aelle ordering the death of Ragnar. And then she becomes Ragnar in the cage. There is so much to say about this and I really thank the writers for piecing this together because it perfectly encapsulates what made Viking so special in the first place and what made my cold, cold heart melt throughout this. I I don't usually cry. I really don't. But this last season, it

33:58KT: got me in ways that I didn't know I had. And that scene, it really got me. And I think since then, since that moment, because that was maybe like the second or the third last episode. Fuck, I think. Well, point is I didn't stop crying until Right? That And then you have everything well, not not even near the end. Another part that I got really emotional over is when all of the brothers charge in and they're all coming against Ivar and Bjorn attacking the wall.

34:38KT: And he literally, like, has, like, an out of body experience. And he's like, what are we doing? I grew up with you guys. I've lived with you guys. We've experienced life together. Why are we doing this? Why are we doing this? And my baby Bjorn heart, it grew three sizes. And I I was I just I was undone. I was undone because we've seen so much of this journey, and I was so invested. You know, Bjorn's presence has been since the start of this show.

35:20KT: You know, it took a few episodes for, and I actually took until season two for Big Bjorn to come along. But because he was there, his presence was in the show, I felt it. You know?

35:35Oti: Yeah. It was a really good moment. And just goes to show you, Ivar was trying to rule using fear.

35:48KT: Which is super effective.

35:50Oti: Which was effective but to a point because you could see that when he was ordering his guard his his his army, kill Bjorn, kill him, Shoot him. Mhmm. No one did anything. Yeah. Because it's Bjorn. I feel like he should have been king ages ago.

36:14KT: To be fair, that title was offered to him, but after he saw the seer, he wanted to go and sail the seas. Remember?

36:14Oti: Yeah. I remember that part.

36:14KT: But it's definitely really bolstered the case that he should be king.

36:29Oti: Yeah. Like, it was just you know when you know when when Arthur was pulling a a sword from from the stone? Yeah. It just felt like that moment where Bjorn's it's it's his it's his chair. It's he's right. Like, there's no greater there's no greater person in in the show that

36:29KT: Not Hvitserk?

36:29Oti: At least Hvitserk did play a role in in in in bringing in bringing an army to fight Ivar.

37:05KT: Yeah.

37:06Oti: Like, I was wondering what Hvitserk's role in this show was.

37:12KT: Mhmm.

37:12Oti: Seeing as when they killed off Sigurd, who was a better warrior than Hvitserk, I was like, oh, wait a minute. If you're getting rid of anyone, I'd be getting rid of Hvitserk rather than Sigurd. You know?

37:24KT: Yeah. But that wasn't the reason why Sigurd died that day. Yeah. But He made a shitty joke like any sibling would say, and that's why he died. But let's go back to Bjorn. Let's finish off the series. Okay? So, definitely, he should have been king from the start. But this Bjorn isn't the same season three Bjorn, season four Bjorn. He's really lived in it. He's really understood the plight of what it means to be the king. What it means to grow up with people and actually want their best interest.

38:04KT: Even when they were charging the town, he's like, hey, no. We just want Ivar. Let's stop fighting each other. We just want Ivar.

38:04Oti: But after killing a couple before he started to

38:04KT: Well, you've got to because they're charging towards you. Right? Yeah. And then we get to the ending scene where it all comes full circle. All of the panties for all of the fandoms of Vikings just dropped in that moment. Just like my mouth. Just like my eyes. Oh, wow.

38:38Oti: Are you alright there?

38:41KT: I can't I can't I can't deny the way I feel. Okay? But you have that dream fantasy sequence of him sitting on that rock with his lovely fur and Ragnar's sword. And you hear this voice of comfort. And I'm like, oh no, History Channel. You're not doing this to me again. And I'm like, okay. Because even because because we we like to watch for subtitles. Right? So the subtitle was Ragnar's voice. And I'm like, oh, you're not gonna do it to me. The voice is enough. My my cup spilleth over already.

39:23KT: I don't need any more tears. Right? So it just said Ragnar's voice and he's talking. And, you know, we're calling back all of the moments that Ragnar and Bjorn have had together. And then cut to Ragnar right behind Bjorn having a very beautiful moment. It was so beautiful. I felt like we shouldn't have even been watching it. It was so intimate, and it was so private, and it meant so much even to me. It meant so much. And I was I was already gone. I told you since

40:01KT: since we saw that sequence of Lagertha seeing his final moments of death, I was already gone. I was done. Put a fork in me. I'm done. Right? So and then it gets to literally near the end of the show where at this point, Bjorn doesn't know that Lagertha is still alive as she emerges from the crowd with Ragnar's sword.

40:27Oti: That was a really amazing moment.

40:31KT: It was so touching in every way. And the caption was, no one will ever forget the name of Bjorn Ironside. Tell me that's not a great way to end the season.

40:44Oti: Yeah. It is great. It is great. But you know what a better way of ending the season was?

40:44KT: You wanna say something ridiculous?

40:44Oti: No. Ivar sitting in the back of the cart being driven off. Sorry. I forgot.

40:58KT: I don't know her. I don't know what you're talking about.

41:04Oti: That was a good moment because I know Ivar would come back stronger in season six because there's no way this ends here.

41:14KT: Well, we definitely we definitely need to have a separate podcast episode where we talk about slippery characters with no sense of morals because that's Ivar. Right? Can you think of can you think of the other character that I'm thinking of?

41:14Oti: Ashur from Spartacus.

41:14KT: Ashur from Spartacus. Yeah. Can you imagine having a conversation about these sorts of characters? Undone. Right? Yep. But, yeah, I completely forgot that was the last scene and I will continue to forget that was the last scene. I refuse to acknowledge it. So let's dive into the characters of Vikings and their character development,

41:55KT: if they had any. Let's start off with your favorite, Floki.

42:01Oti: So we're introduced to Floki in the woods when Ragnar is going to look for him Mhmm. To build boats. Yep. And he's introduced introduced as as this this eccentric kind of jokester. Mhmm. And we're just trying to and it just builds up this kind of dynamism between him and and Ragnar. Yeah. And from that moment, I'm sold. I'm like, yes. I'm gonna like this character. I'm gonna love Floki. And love, I did. Until they go on plunder, Ragnar comes back with Athelstan. Ugh. And we see Ragnar build

42:48Oti: this weird relationship with Athelstan, and is by the sidelines because has always seen himself as, oh, I'm Ragnar's closest friend. Mhmm. I'm Ragnar's whatever it is he thought he was to Ragnar Yeah. That wasn't or so sacred that Ragnar couldn't have more than one of that.

43:11KT: But, again, without the conventional ties of sexuality, Floki loved Ragnar.

43:18Oti: I think Floki was in love and in love with Ragnar.

43:22KT: He was in love with Ragnar. Probably not enough to tear Lagertha away from him, but he But I think he was just praying for that moment. He loved Ragnar in every sense of it, and Floki was quite religious. He saw Ragnar as a god.

43:22Oti: Too religious.

43:22KT: Too religious. And I guess that's something interesting. When he started to get jealous of Athelstan and he kept getting he kept voicing his opinions about Christianity. Do you think that was because he was so religious or you think he was just a jealous little baby?

44:01Oti: I think that he was just a jealous little baby.

44:07KT: But we do love a jealous little Skarsgard baby.

44:11Oti: Yeah. But Floki and I get this from a writing perspective and a storytelling a storytelling perspective that Yeah. Floki has to go through the motions. It can't be this jokester that he has been introduced as for the entire show, and they need to add some more depth to him. And the depth to him is him being having this overly overly overly familiar relationship with Ragnar. And just tears that away from him, and he feels like he needs to do everything to regain that trust and that relationship.

44:53Oti: And the more he tries, the more he keeps pushing Ragnar away Because he reached a point where Ragnar didn't even understand what Floki was anymore.

45:03KT: But, arguably, Floki didn't understand what Ragnar was anymore.

45:03Oti: True. But I guess they just grew apart,

45:10Oti: really. But looking but looking at it through the lens of the protagonist, which is Ragnar Yes. We couldn't understand what Floki was anymore. But Ragnar started to neglect Floki. Like, yes, he thought so because all Floki would talk about is religion. And that pissed the hell out of Ragnar.

45:32KT: I guess Floki is that one uncle in your family that just doesn't stop talking about religion. Everyone has one.

45:39Oti: Oh, we have other type of uncles.

45:42KT: Oh, my. Tune in next week.

45:47Oti: Well, I'm just saying, he became so monotone in his react in his in his interaction with Ragnar, and that's what separated them. If he was to be if he wanted to be more progressive Mhmm. If he tried to at least understand why Ragnar was was trying to explore and was trying to expand his knowledge Uh-huh. Then he would have been closer to Ragnar than anyone. If he saw so Athelstan.

46:15KT: If Floki saw Ragnar as a Norse god, why would he allow him to explore? You were literally a god.

46:24Oti: Why would you? Why why did he say he saw him as a god? I don't think he saw him as a god.

46:24KT: You agreed with me, like, two minutes ago.

46:24Oti: Well, I didn't I I took it not from a literal perspective and more as so as Ragnar can do no wrong.

46:24KT: Goddish?

46:24Oti: Yeah. Not not like a literal Odin type. Not the way I ever saw himself. No. Ugh.

46:46KT: But Floki was a solid character to start off with. He was mischievous. He was fun, and he was very passionate about his craft. Are you telling me that Ragnar didn't see value in that? Ragnar

47:00Oti: Ragnar only saw value in what Floki can do in time Yeah. And then he started treating Floki badly and still expected him to build fleets for him. Because Floki was so monotone in his interaction with him. Oh, the gods have said this, and this is what we'll do. We will not stray from the land. We will not be curious because I, Floki, said so from Odin above. Ra. Ra.

47:24KT: I think Ra is I think Ra is an Egyptian god. Right? No.

47:28Oti: That was more Odin shout backing, what is

47:28KT: Oh, is oh, okay. Thanks for explaining that.

47:28Oti: Oh, you're welcome. You're welcome. I used to be in Broadway.

47:39KT: Yeah. It it it's annoying, but I still feel like it's within character. Him becoming complacent and wanting to plot for Athelstan, it made sense for his character. It's not like changed the was was was was within character?

47:55Oti: He became deranged.

47:59KT: So yes. No. That was He had a vision. He was told to go and spill blood. He killed Athelstan

48:07Oti: like a bitch.

48:10KT: Oh, okay. So if he killed him like a gangster

48:15Oti: Not even a Viking kind of like, he went to Athelstan while he's sleeping or something. It just Yeah.

48:19KT: Because to Floki, he's the lowest of low. And to everyone else in the world, Athelstan was the lowest dirt on your shoe. And once Athelstan died,

48:29Oti: knew. He knew. He knew what he knew. There's only one person stupid enough to do it.

48:38KT: Or brave. I think you meant to say brave.

48:38Oti: No. Stupid.

48:43Oti: Because Athelstan symbolized so much in the Afghan community. Yeah. And let's say let's let let me put it this way. If let's just take it as as if this was a real occurrence, like, this really happened, and there was an in that community. Mhmm. If had remained alive, the community would still be alive today. Bam.

49:09KT: Okay. I didn't know this was a podcast of dreams and delusions. Did you wanna send me a memo? Or

49:18Oti: He would have played a big part. He would have played a big part in in making the Viking community knowledgeable to survive.

49:28KT: It went both ways because then he became an informant to King Ecbert. And he was feeding information about the pagans as they like say. More Viking than English. But what I'm saying is you're saying that he did them such a favor, but he also did the Christians a favor by sharing all of the information with King Ecbert.

49:28Oti: Because knowledge is to be shared.

49:28KT: Oh, is it?

49:28Oti: Yeah.

49:54KT: I I don't even know how you find time to do this podcast because you're so busy being the president of the Athelstan club.

49:54Oti: Oh, I'll be printing T shirts.

49:54KT: You'll just buy them yourself.

50:06Oti: Yep. So so Athelstan and the Floki denies him, and I get it, jealousy, rage, whatever it may be that might push someone to the edge to commit such a heinous crime, it just made even Ragnar weird. Like, didn't understand what Ragnar was towards the end of his life in Which Vikings. Like Yeah. It was just

50:41KT: so But even after there is more to Floki as much as you try to deny it. There is more to Floki after he killed Athelstan. He was at a low. Ragnar was ignoring him who in whatever capacity. Maybe he didn't see him as a god, but he really looked up to Ragnar and he was in love with Ragnar. And in his eyes, Ragnar could do no wrong up until obviously when he started to go wrong in his eyes. And everything started to unravel and his wife and his child died. Right?

51:16KT: That would throw anyone off the edge. So you've already got this man that lives in this fantasism of religion and what his calling is in life. And then you have his best friend betraying him. You have his wife. You have his kid dying. What else is there? And then he goes out and ventures. And I think in this part of history, he found Iceland or Greenland, one of them. But then he branches off into his own story. Right?

51:49Oti: Which is boring as well. Yeah.

51:52KT: It really kind of got in the way. Every time they cut to the different stories in season five, I'm like, really? What? You don't wanna love them? What? The fact that he went up the mountain

52:03Oti: trying to find the real god, and he he stumbles across. He stumbles across a cross like a Christian cross, a crucifix.

52:17KT: If you ever wanted to hear smug, guys,

52:21Oti: here it is. So I feel like the writers knew what everyone wanted.

52:28KT: Oh, wow.

52:30Oti: And they just delivered. He goes up a mountain thinking that he's going to find Odin or whoever to other Norse god. Yeah. And then he stumbles up he stumbles across Christianity. And I was I was like, yes. You deserve this. You deserve this. Scream all you want.

52:54KT: You're a terrible person.

52:54Oti: Thank you.

52:54KT: He was a broken man, and he was trying to start a new world.

53:03Oti: A new world filled with treachery and jealousy and betrayal.

53:11KT: That's humanity.

53:13Oti: Yeah. That is humanity.

53:15KT: But he was unlikable, but you cannot argue that he was one dimensional and I will fight you.

53:15Oti: That he wasn't. Okay.

53:15KT: Perfect. Fine. We're best friends again.

53:31Oti: So what I'm expecting from Floki in the coming seasons is he will become he will take over the role of the seer who was killed by Ivar. I would really love to see that. And because they've hinted not really hinted. They've shown us that Floki can see

53:49KT: Essentially. Yeah. I'm pretty sure the seer did say it to him.

53:53Oti: Yeah. He he would be greater than him. Like, he would surpass him. So I'm thinking Floki would get that role and go back to Kattegat after that. Uh-huh.

54:03KT: It's always going back to Kattegat.

54:05Oti: All roads lead to Kattegat. So that will be interesting and I feel like that's what would win a lot of people back to Floki's side.

54:18KT: I just love him. I think he's great. I think he was misled by his own naivety, but you can't penalize him for that. He was out in the big world trying to make it. You can't blame poor old Floki for that. True. And he had such tender moments with baby Bjorn and even Big Bjorn.

54:41Oti: And they were close with Ivar as well. I wonder I wonder what I wonder what side he would take though. Ivar or Bjorn?

54:48KT: Oh, Bjorn. Come on now. Come on now.

54:48Oti: It's not that clear cut.

54:48KT: And what I would find interesting is who would follow Ivar out of the city? Because he's got no power now. Like, why would you follow him?

55:05Oti: But he's the son he's the son of Ragnar. He will get following regardless of where he goes.

55:05KT: You've got other sons of Ragnar as well.

55:14Oti: He's ruthless, and he's powerful.

55:14KT: But at this point in time, he got nada.

55:14Oti: But he's smart.

55:21KT: Yeah. But he's smart with nada.

55:21Oti: No. He's he's one was. People will follow him.

55:27KT: I feel like a lot of Kattegat is not his time. People will A lot of Kattegat is People would his follow either more than they would follow Ubbe or Hvitserk. Mate, that's why we're not talking about Ubbe or Hvitserk because they're not worth you know who we haven't talked about as well? Jonathan Rhys Meyers' character. Oh my have not mentioned him at all.

55:56Oti: I forgot about him for a second. He's a great guy. Well, he played a pivotal role, didn't he?

56:06KT: I feel like it was just because it was him. They gave him more like, he appeared in instances that didn't make sense.

56:16Oti: He was battling his own demons. He was

56:20KT: Let's be Let's be meta. One of the directors for The Tudors directed the Vikings or that season of the Vikings, and that's how Jonathan Rhys Meyers got introduced to the show.

56:32Oti: But based off The Tudors, he is great.

56:37KT: I'm sure he's great, but get out of my show. And can can anyone serious believe that Jonathan Rhys Meyers was a priest and he was chaste and he practiced abstinence?

56:53Oti: Well, he clearly didn't practice abstinence.

56:57KT: Because he had to. Now I'm getting confused whether it's this or Young Pope. Wasn't he lashing himself with thorns? He was. He was at confession, and he was thinking of a woman. And then he no. He he didn't lash himself. He ran through a field of thorns to punish himself.

57:15Oti: Oh, wow. I don't remember that. It happened really early on.

57:18KT: And I feel like Jonathan Rhys Meyers' character as Bishop Heahmund and Jude Law's character and Young Pope, they are both dripping in diseases, they would be best friends. Are you are you telling me you believe that Jude Law is also a pope?

57:18Oti: Yeah.

57:18KT: In what world?

57:44Oti: In the Catholic world.

57:46KT: Oh, my. Tune in next week. Okay. I think that's enough talking about Bishop Heahmund. Right?

57:56Oti: Yeah. He he was a solid character. He No. He made Lagertha fall in love again, and that's that

58:04KT: Okay. Alright. That's a special thing. I I love Lagertha. She is a queen in literal literal senses in the show, but just with her big dick energy, she is amazing. Right? But I really felt like they just jostled her around to keep her in the story because you had Astrid and then you had those two earls. And I think where they failed with Lagertha's character was just mismatching her in, like, romances.

58:35KT: Actually, we got with King Ecbert, but I think that was more of a strategic play. But just shows you as a woman, you had to do a lot of that to get ahead. And as a woman, I'm giving you my womanly opinion.

58:49Oti: But she could hold her own definitely. Yeah. I know. Reliant on any man. Anything she did was calculated and strategic. So she's one of the strongest woman characters we've seen in a show for a long while.

59:07KT: I agree, but I feel like they kind of could have just left that.

59:13Oti: And she doesn't have dragons, so there you go.

59:16KT: Is that a Game of Thrones reference?

59:16Oti: Oh my god. Yes. It is.

59:16KT: Okay. Oti R. R. Martin. Oh, goodness me.

59:16Oti: You're welcome.

59:16KT: And we found out today that George R. R. Martin is the same age as Samuel L. Jackson.

59:38Oti: Yeah. Wow.

59:39KT: What kind of a world is this?

59:43Oti: I'm looking forward to that season finale of Game of Thrones.

59:47KT: Let's talk about Rollo.

59:50Oti: Rollo. He's been quite an interesting character.

59:55KT: Yeah.

59:56Oti: And we were introduced to him

59:56KT: First episode.

59:56Oti: The first episode. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you could tell the word he was he wasn't really that close to Ragnar. Like, he wanted what Ragnar had in Lagertha.

60:13KT: Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. There was a reference in season five that perchance, Bjorn is Rollo's son.

60:28Oti: Yes. Not even a reference. They said it, and I believe it. Oh. What

60:35KT: oh. Lagertha slipped, man. Yeah. She probably did slip, but do you genuinely genuinely, do you really think that Bjorn is the son of

60:35Oti: Yes. I think it could make sense.

60:52Oti: It makes perfect sense. And that's why felt like he could have.

61:00KT: Just whenever he wanted.

61:02Oti: Yeah. Because they thought they share this son and they're keeping it a secret from Ragnar.

61:09KT: I'm not entirely convinced or maybe it's just because it ruins my perfect vision of Bjorn and Ragnar together, father and son.

61:09Oti: No. But I truly believe it's Rollo's son.

61:09KT: Okay. So let let's let's go along with that that Rollo is the true father. Do you think that this was something that was destined from the start, or you think they're like, oh, let's see what else we can twist into the story, and they just put it in last minute.

61:40Oti: Something that was destined from the start because when you saw interactions between Rollo and Bjorn

61:47KT: Yeah.

61:48Oti: In the first few episodes, it was they were quite close before before Bjorn decides to go with Lagertha, Rollo was always there. And despite everything, like his rivalry with Ragnar Yeah. Rollo would always have Bjorn's back.

62:07KT: Uh-huh.

62:08Oti: And that just I feel like it was weird in a way. I know they're brothers, but not that close.

62:18KT: I guess so. I guess so. But Rollo was definitely a solid character. I think we all felt a sense of betrayal when he converted to Christianity.

62:30Oti: No. I liked it. I enjoyed it. He needed to find his place. He needed a kingdom to rule, and he was never going to rule

62:37KT: I feel like you deliberately say the opposite of what you're truly feeling.

62:42Oti: He needed to find his own

62:44KT: like Viking for life. Even when Ragnar was dabbling in Christianity, he was like, no, sir. Not today. He had lost everything.

62:55Oti: His wife just died. He didn't know what to do. He doesn't have Lagertha. He can't go to his son Bjorn. He's jealous of Ragnar. Ragnar is everything. Ragnar is god. He's never gonna take the throne. He's never gonna be Ragnar. Yeah. And then he went to the Seer, and the Seer told him, your future is pride. You will rule many men. And that's what he set forth to do. Rollo found himself a queen and and a queen who was willing to take a chance with, you know, with a Viking, with an outsider.

63:47KT: Yeah.

63:47Oti: And that's such a big thing back in the day considering everything.

63:53KT: Mhmm.

63:54Oti: And Rollo did not fail. Rollo became the defender of Frankia, and they had to be defeated.

64:05KT: I liked Rollo's attitude just to go out and smash everything. At least that was season one, Rollo.

64:14Oti: Well, you said you didn't want Floki to be one dimensional. They definitely made Rollo.

64:20KT: They add they definitely added dimensions to him. I agree. I agree. Before the time runs out, which you probably had, but we'll wrap this up shortly, I really wanna talk about Aethelwulf.

64:38Oti: Tell me about your

64:40KT: My beloved Aethelwulf. One of the best characters inside of Vikings.

64:40Oti: Oh, really?

64:40KT: I said it. I'm throwing my towel in the ring.

64:40Oti: Wow.

64:40KT: Is that an idiom that makes sense?

64:40Oti: I think so.

64:40KT: Is everything that's amazing about England and the exchanges that they have with the Vikings. He's King son. Right? And he's like a full on warrior. Right? He goes out in the front lines and he fights amongst the Vikings. He's smart. He knows when to concede. He knows how to strategize and he had all of the makings to be the best king ever.

65:34Oti: Yeah. Until he died out of a bee sting.

65:38KT: We will not speak of that moment.

65:41Oti: That moment will be erased. That did not make any sense. Look. He's way to kill off a character. Like, it's just ridiculous. One second he's there, sitting on his desk. The next minute he's dying with his face all swollen up out of one bee.

66:08KT: Let's not forget

66:08Oti: I don't get it.

66:08KT: Let's not forget the times. People died quite easily.

66:14Oti: But out of one bee, I've been stung by a bee, and I'm still here. And I didn't get any kind of treatment.

66:19KT: Do you want a medal?

66:19Oti: Yes.

66:19KT: No. Because then you also had that the diseases spread in Kattegat, and Bjorn had a sister, and the sister died during that disease. People died quite easily. But Aethelwulf was such a solid character. One of my most favorite moments from Vikings involves Aethelwulf. And I believe it's season four. It's during the time of Queen Kwenthrith and they needed to save her and she was in the tower. And you have the sequence of amazing, masculine, all encompassing Aethelwulf running through,

67:09KT: striking all the people while he runs towards the tower. And right outside of the tower, there is this extra that just would not die. I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure the direction was, you know, slash each other twice and then fall on the floor and pretend you're dead so Aethelwulf can continue to the tower. But if you guys wanna have a good time, go back to that episode and look for it because this extra definitely did not concede.

67:41Oti: He definitely gave us all a fight of his life. Yeah. Definitely.

67:49KT: Finehair?

67:51Oti: Oh, Finehair. So he he what what situation do we find does he find himself in now? He's seeing that Bjorn has become king.

68:03KT: He's the promise is that once Bjorn dies, he's next in line, and he'll take the wife.

68:10Oti: Oh, yeah. But then what what does that mean for Ubbe and Hvitserk?

68:18KT: I'm not really sure. They didn't really discuss that.

68:22Oti: Yeah. I feel like Finehair is just fooling himself. He's never going to be king of no way.

68:28KT: I think he just needs to realize that he's always going to be the supporting role, not the main role. And he knew it in himself. Ragnar had something. Right? Probably charisma. But he had something that made people want to follow him. And Finehair just doesn't have that. I think Finehair is just so desperate to be loved.

68:56Oti: Did you see his face? Did you see his face when Hvitserk said that Ubbe spared his life? Yeah. And then he was like, oh, I killed my brother. Oh, dear.

69:12KT: Halfdan, Halfdan the Black, he had a really good, you know, time with Bjorn in Morocco or wherever they were. And when they were at that dinner scene and they realized they were eating the body of the man, hilarious. That was really Hilarious. That's probably one of the biggest laughs we've ever had in Vikings. But, you know, let's wrap it up. I think we've gone over the hour mark.

69:40Oti: Yes. We have.

69:43KT: So it would have been good to explore more of the characters, but I guess if you guys are interested, feel free to let us know. Let's give some honorable mentions to King Ecbert. We didn't really get to talk about him. Also, Alfred, who I don't care for. But was also a solid he was like a mini Aethelwulf Yes. Character. King Aelle, he's vile, We didn't really get to talk about him. Torvi. Torvi. I guess she kinda grew on me by the end of it.

70:24Oti: Yeah.

70:27KT: I'm glad we didn't even talk about Aslaug because I don't care about that homewrecker at all. The brothers that we didn't talk about, well, Sigurd, we'll pour some sip on the concrete for you. Ubbe, who you loved. You loved him way too much.

70:27Oti: Because he is Ragnar.

70:27KT: Nah. Nah. He's Ragnar without his balls.

70:27Oti: He is Ragnar.

70:27KT: Ubbe could not lead for shit. He had his idealisms.

70:27Oti: A natural born leader.

70:27KT: Okay. Let let's let's talk about it. So in the world where Bjorn is still Ragnar's son, warrior, explorer.

71:14KT: Right? Mhmm. Then I guess the next oldest is Ubbe. Mhmm. His idealisms. Yeah. His, you know, positive sort of nature. I'll give him

71:25Oti: come on now. He is a born leader.

71:28KT: Come on. Let's okay. Agree to disagree. And then we've got Hvitserk, which I don't think even till now, still can't figure out what he got from Ragnar. No idea. He was fickle as hell. And I don't like fickle people. And then you've got Ivar, which I I wanted to talk about Ivar, but we kind of already talked about him, and we are going quite long. But Ivar was such a solid character. In season four, when you saw him kill his brother out of spite

72:05KT: and him being carried around by Ragnar, remember?

72:05Oti: I remember.

72:05KT: Remember. And Ragnar had that heart to heart to him and was like, you can do it, son. Be ruthless. I feel like he should have used different words. You shouldn't have said that to Ivar. But he was a solid character. And I'm like, okay. You know, this is getting spicy. I wanna see where Ivar goes with this. Maybe it was the writing. Maybe it was natural development. But they really kind of

72:36KT: just they turned the notch up to a 100 for Ivar and it just muddied the waters. It just got in the way.

72:45Oti: You know what I didn't believe? Yeah. That as someone as smart as Ivar would be swayed by a lady.

72:51KT: No. That makes total sense.

72:51Oti: You reckon?

72:51KT: He always felt inadequate. Physically, emotionally until he was 15. So. He did. No. But he he suffered. Right? And he got so much love from his mother. His father tried to abandon him. He just really needed to be loved and he had a really distorted sense of what love was. Right? Mhmm. Even when he married his wife, he treated her like shit. But whatever whatever energy she was giving him, he received and it became everything to him. So I'm not surprised that he was swayed by a woman.

73:43Oti: Guess so.

73:45KT: Who else? Anyone else that we care about in Vikings that we didn't get to talk about? I think we mentioned Magnus in passing. I don't care about him. I thought it hilarious how he wanted to die. Viking definitely never got it.

74:00Oti: Oh, he did die in battle,

74:03KT: it's his funny thing I take. Come on now. People would laugh him out of Valhalla. Who else do we have? No. I think that's pretty much that covers a lot of the main characters. It covers a lot of the main characters and there are a lot of people along the way that we enjoyed as well. Okay. So let's go on and wrap it up. As per the name of the podcast, this is the For Your Reference segment. And this is where we talk about, you know, recommendations

74:34KT: of other things that you might enjoy if you enjoyed this.

74:38Oti: So I would definitely recommend watching Spartacus. That was mine.

74:38KT: Oh, yeah? Yeah. Who can recommend the same thing?

74:38Oti: I'll recommend it with Jupiter's cock. Oh, Batiatus. Once you get to watch Spartacus, you will appreciate a lot a lot of this, historic kind of shows. Like, it goes above and beyond.

75:05KT: You wouldn't recommend Game of Thrones if you enjoyed this? I'm just assuming anyone that's watched Viking has watched Game of Thrones. It's the same sort of demographic. It's not the same story, but definitely

75:16Oti: Same demographic. Yeah. Yeah.

75:19KT: Anything else you would recommend? Anything on the History Channel just to keep the ratings up. Cool. Well, that was our podcast. Hopefully, you guys enjoyed it, and we'll see you guys next week. We are on all the socials, so feel free to follow us just to see what's going on throughout the week for the next podcast.

75:39Oti: If you have any questions, comments, email us at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

75:45KT: Bye, guys. See you.