Umbrella Academy – Klaus and effect

Full transcript of Umbrella Academy – Klaus and effect.

0:00Oti: Nice. Not gonna throw a parade or anything but good. Not your My Chemical Romance parade? No. Not not to that level unfortunately.

0:07KT: When I was an OT. My KT

0:11Oti: took me into the city to see a A mariachi

0:41KT: Howdy, friends and lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT.

0:41Oti: And Oti.

0:41KT: And bring along your finest monocle because we are having a date with a sequin mannequin beauty. Mhmm. Mhmm. This week, we are covering Netflix's Umbrella Academy. Woo hoo. Woo hoo. Strap in friends and lovers or strap on if you're feeling nasty. What what a series, Oti. Let's get into the stats, which is what we do around here.

1:14KT: If you are super learned, if you had paid attention to the intro of this episode, let's pull all of our glasses up. Like The Boys, Umbrella Academy is based off a comic of the same name by in way of Gerard Way, who is the lead man of My Chemical Romance.

1:36Oti: Who'd have thought? Who'd have thunk it? We we we every time we saw interviews after watching the first season They kept talking about My Chemical Romance. I was like, it was driving me crazy.

1:46KT: And we're wondering why, like, what's going on? And that is why Friends and Lovers. And then it was adapted for TV by Steve Blackman and Jeremy Slater. It was released in the 02/15/2019. Mhmm. And on the 07/31/2020, season two premiered.

2:07Oti: Yep.

2:09KT: And as we mentioned, it is well adorned from Netflix. Let me just rattle off the actors because they are an ensemble. I will go through all seven. We have Ellen Page, Tom Hopper, David Castañeda, Emmy Raver-Lampman, Robert Sheehan. Yes. Another slice, please. Aidan Gallagher, Justin H. Min. Mhmm. What a cast. What a cast. And we're obviously going to get through as many characters as possible but I do want to lay accolade and respect to Mary J. Blige. It's not the first time

2:45KT: within reason we mentioned Mary J. Blige because we did our 30 Rock episode where she turned up as well. Yep. But obviously she has more of a bolstered role in Umbrella Academy. So welcome, welcome, welcome friends and lovers. If you haven't watched Umbrella Academy and you do not want to be spoiled in the most splooshiest of ways, be aware that we will be talking about spoilers of season one and also season two. We do have a delicious delicious catalog.

3:17KT: And if you have listened to all of the episodes and you're waiting on one, let us know. That is a reference bingo we are yet to come across Oti. There there is a lot you can peruse. But we will be focusing on Umbrella Academy this week. So let's start off with what we like to call first impressions. And I guess it's also to provide our frame of reference, you know, who we are as people, but also who we are as viewers as well. Oti is very forgiving and I have very little patience.

3:51KT: And it all culminates together in a sensual reference podcast. But let's let's talk about Umbrella Academy. It has been around since 2019, but we only just watched it a couple of months ago. And I guess we can talk about if we've come across any of the other actors as well. Well,

4:15Oti: like you said, we just watched it this year, earlier this year, and we kept on skipping it every single time we saw it on Netflix because of the poster, and we're like, yeah. I'm not I'm not ready for this.

4:31KT: It only got like a there was a lot of stylistic sort of effort that went into it, and you wonder if there was going to be any sort of substance, which obviously will get challenged, and we'll have a proper discussion about it. But we saw the post, and we're like, okay. We get it. Like, everyone has their competing superhero show, whether it's CW, whether it's, like, standalone Marvel DC, sort of movies who Gerard also credits, as one of his inspirations, DC Comics, Doom Patrol, in particular. Everyone kind of had their stake

5:03KT: in the superhero world, The Boys as well on Amazon. So we kind of felt like we got the vibe. Right? Yeah. We got the vibe. And to me, it felt like it would be like a CW sort of call level quality. Okay. But I I I think we should also lay respect because you do like your CW shows. Like my CW. And because I think the only CW I watch or did watch was Supernatural. Yeah. But you watched the whole gambit. I watched oh,

5:31Oti: I did.

5:33KT: You didn't think I was gonna expose you this early?

5:35Oti: No. I I thought you'd leave it for later in the podcast. Well, that's why we don't video podcasts because they expose you to area. Want to watch things without having to overthink all the time. You know? Something easy, light, fun. Yeah. And CW provides that in tenfold. Mhmm. So I thought it was something similar. I wasn't ready to indulge in that at the moment because I was taking a break from all these super superheroes

6:02Oti: sort of shows. Yep. And and once we decided to watch it, I think we binged the whole season in one weekend, and we just couldn't believe how how much of idiots we are.

6:14KT: How dare you?

6:14Oti: Oh, I was just speaking for myself.

6:14KT: Yourself and our dog exec producer. But, yeah, the the the first season of Umbrella Academy, four chef kisses exemplary, I say with original monocle. Mhmm. Fucking amazing. It it was it definitely went above and beyond in any sort of lack of expectations that we might have had for Umbrella Academy. We really didn't know what we were walking into. Yeah. Because there's there's so many shows that even we've covered on this podcast that you can get lost in, within Netflix. So we we weren't expecting,

6:55KT: I guess, even emotional pull with the characters as well. And we'll talk about that and we'll go through that as well. Shout outs to Ellen Page. This isn't the first time that she's brought a brought along a cataclysmic almost maybe apocalypse. I think maybe a couple of months ago, we played Beyond: Two Souls. Yeah. So I guess just shout outs there. Tom Hopper, he plays a very interesting, very similar character in Black Sails. So definitely shout out to him. I know people credit him for Game of Thrones.

7:30KT: He was barely in it. No. But, like, it was such a big show. So I think that's mostly where people recognize Tom Hopper from. But we we definitely lay our splooshes in the Black Sails direction.

7:39Oti: Oh, yeah. Oh, if you tell me what Tom Hopper is known for, it'll be Black Sails without a doubt.

7:47KT: Oh, totally. Totally. And Robert Sheehan has been in Misfits, which I think you've watched Mhmm. As well. But yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. What a series. Season two, we definitely felt a way about it. But I think the best way to go through this and have this tantalizing discussion is to focus on the characters. And then maybe at the end, we can well, even, I guess, naturally, we'll start to talk about season two and how that also unveiled as well.

8:18Oti: Yeah. And I think you mentioned something to do with The Boys and it reminding you of it as a reason of why we didn't watch it at the first go. Yeah. When we finished The Boys, we instinctly just wanted more content for The Boys, and it made us read the comics. Oh, yes. Did you get this sort of same vibe of, oh, we finished season one. And as much as we enjoyed it, did you feel the need that you wanted to read more about this?

8:48KT: If reading the Wikipedia article of the comic counts as reading the comic, then yes. Then, yes, I I have perused the literature or the lore as the kids like to say of of Umbrella Academy. Well, it was more that there was some unanswered questions that carried through season one and didn't get addressed in season two. But I think as we start to talk about the characters, we can start to, you know, peel those Shrek Onion layers that Oti loves so much. Mhmm. But I guess before we even dive into the seven,

9:27KT: let's talk a bit generally about Umbrella Academy and how it all came together.

9:34Oti: Mhmm.

9:35KT: So everyone was born on the same day in 1989 from, I'm not sure if there were varying ages, but they were from young women that didn't appear to be pregnant earlier in the day and they just popped out a baby. It was kind of the spiritual.

9:55Oti: No. I wasn't going I'm not I'm not going there. My chill thought was a bit too naughty for this podcast.

10:02KT: Yeah. I think you're channeling I think you're channeling your Tatiana from Perry Mason. Yeah.

10:08Oti: Tatiana. What?

10:11KT: You see friends and lovers, Oti knows references, but they are quite a few years old, unfortunately. But, yes, I I guess just generally going into it, because I think even one of the opening scenes in season one was a girl and a boy in a pool.

10:29Oti: And that's how you make a baby. That's how you make a baby. Kids, don't kiss on the lips.

10:34KT: Because mama don't kiss on the mouth. Yeah. I think that might have been Russia, so it might have been Vanya, but don't quote me. I think it was Vanya. Yeah. Because he's the she's the only one from Russia. Yeah. I I think it was in Russia. Yeah. But, you know, feel free to correct us. I love a tasty fight. Come and find us on Twitter. But, yeah, it it was interesting to see how they all came around. And in my very learned pulling my glasses up,

11:00KT: my it's not just IMDb. I actually went to extra wiki pages. Oh, look at you. Apparently, in total, there were 43 super powered infants that were born. 43. So to only have seven, it it does open to the possibility of the worlds and and Oh, yeah. And the universes, again, as the kids like to say, there's a lot of story that can be built on in that. And later on in the series, we do come across Lila Pitts.

11:32KT: So I think perhaps that she might have been one of those kids as well. Yeah. She is. Or whether she was, like, made in a lab and she was replicated for the powers, I guess we'll start to see. Come and come and subscribe to my nonexistent comic friends and lovers, The Reference Academy. Speaking of, we have talked about spoiler spoiler spoilers. At the end of season two, they they kind of hinted and they kind of alluded to a reverse sort of you sort of like multiverse scenario where we have the Sparrow Academy.

12:08Oti: Yeah.

12:09KT: Thoughts, feelings?

12:11Oti: I did not see it coming in as much as what we were presented with on the second season. Mhmm. I felt the apocalypse will be the overlaying narrative for each and every season, which frustrated the hell out of me. The narrative for season one and season two. Yeah. And I thought that will be its thing. That will be its stick. So every single season, it will be Vanya having have them having to contain Vanya in some sort of way. And for them to introduce it, to introduce this sort of Yeah.

12:43Oti: For them to introduce Sparrow Academy, I was like, you should they should have been fucking season two. Yeah. The tethered the tethered edition. Yeah. Get Jordan Peele's in there.

12:43KT: Jordan Peele's?

12:43Oti: Jordan Peele's. Jordan Peele's is my shit.

13:00KT: In July 2020, Gerard Way did reveal that volume four of the comics would be surrounding the Sparrow Academy. Volume four? Okay. Yeah. So I I I couldn't gather how much was in the works and how much is just ready to go, but it's going to be centered on something that hasn't been published yet Yeah. Essentially.

13:22Oti: Well, I'm glad that in the Sparrow Academy, Ben is sort of the lead because we've got we we Ben. So the fact that we've gotten just a few pieces of him here and there Yeah. It makes me feel happy that, no, going forward, season three, at least We're going to see it. We're going to see a whole lot more of Ben. Yeah. Like Despite the fact it's a sort of a multiverse, a parallel universe sort of shit.

13:45KT: Yeah. Justin H. Min must be related to Vera Farmiga because that's a Bates Motel reference, friends and lovers. But yeah. So I I I guess the reason why I wanted to bring that up is we're we're talking about the comics. We're pulling our glasses up. We mentioned The Boys. But yeah. So so volume four is apparently in the works when it will come out. I guess time will tell.

14:13KT: And when season three will come out, time will tell. As far as I can see now, season three hasn't been renewed, but it's very much likely. I don't play poker. I'm not a betting man, but I would say that season three is raring to go. Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah. But that's pretty much the academy as a whole. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. This is going to be a major spoiler. So spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. Again, we have many delicious tantalizing, just the sexual episodes that you can go and listen to. I wanna talk about Reginald

14:47KT: Mhmm. For a second before we go into the seven. So can we call him Reg? Oh, let's call him Reg. Or is that too familiar?

14:55Oti: No. Channeling Reg from Shy.

15:00KT: Invite me to energy. Make sure you watch the Shy because we will be covering that very soon. I just wanted to bring up so one of the biggest sort of spoilers not spoilers, but one of the biggest sort of plot points or reveals that we had in season two is that Reginald is not only was he a questionable man picking up babies all around the world, unlike Oti, because those babies belong to you. So so as far as we understand, sir Reginald is an alien. Yep. So it's Goku Reginald.

15:35KT: Goku Reginald is We're going to have the Dragon Ball crossover.

15:39Oti: Mhmm. You heard that unofficially on 40 year old son. In this?

15:43KT: Oh, it's gotta be Diego.

15:49Oti: Not Luther?

15:51KT: No. Because I think he's more of Oolong. Yeah. Like, even more useless. Yeah. That's to satiate our anime Dragon Ball fans because it's been a while since we've done an anime. Right, Oti?

15:59Oti: Bloody hell. Yeah. It has been a while. And I and I think I have such an idea of what our what the sort of next anime should be. So it's something that you'd have to watch because you refused to watch the first go.

16:18KT: Well, I guess that's another tantalizing morsel for you friends and lovers. But what do you think? What do you think about sir Reginald being from an alien species?

16:29Oti: They kinda hinted at it. We saw sort of this, you know, Clark Kent. What what planet is Clark Kent from? Kolob. No. Krypton, I think Yeah. And how it got destroyed and stuff. They sort of foreshadowed that he was not of Earth because we saw this sort of the ships leaving a planet, and he was there with, I think, his lover because there was all this heartfelt sort of emotions going on in season one.

17:04KT: So Did you get, like, the the extended edition? No.

17:08Oti: It was there. It was there. I just pay attention, mate. Oh, okay. So I was like, they they didn't just show this for us to be like, this is nothing because our ships live in the planet literally. Mhmm. So it may it made us think of Reginald not being of from Earth, whether or not he he looked the way he did. True. True. We didn't know. So

17:33Oti: it got me excited in terms of, surely, there has to be more of him. We kinda just kill him off and then start season two and not knowing anything about Reg. Yeah. Like, that that would be the the worst

17:46KT: Martha x Markiner to introduce an alien species and then just kill them off.

17:55Oti: Yeah. That would be a Martha moment.

17:57KT: More Martha than Dragon Ball Evolution, but I think I guess we'll leave that alone at least for today. But it was interesting. It was interesting to see how he navigated that. His death was obviously the catalyst of bringing the seven together because they were separated for some time and then they reassembled non trademark to come together to fight the powers that be. Mhmm. And then I guess Vanya turns out to be the powers that be for season one and also for season two. So let's talk about The Seven.

18:33KT: I guess you could call it a bit rough, but now knowing the sort of entity that Reginald is or Reg as his best friends like to call him, I I guess it's not that shocking that he just gave them numbers. Yeah. In the comics, they also they actually had pseudo sort of names for them. Spaceboy is kind of the only one that emerges from the surface series. Oh. But let's let's go through all of them. What I thought was real really interesting was Reginald actually ranked them based on their individual usefulness.

19:09Oti: So why was Luther in this? Exactly.

19:13KT: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And that's what I wanted to talk about. Do you think it's not just the power that they have, but also their ability to learn and also obedience? I think that's also it as well.

19:27Oti: That would make sense in in in the sense that he made Vanya number seven because she was too powerful and she could not be controlled. So

19:35KT: the fact that yeah. I I could see that. I could see that. So so I guess let's just go through the seven, but let let's keep that in mind. Let's think about the powers, but I guess let's also think about the temperaments and the personalities of the characters as well. So we have Luther Hargreaves, Spaceboy, also known as number one. So his noted powers and abilities are superhuman strength, which I I guess is pretty cool, but it it's it's pretty low level sort of power.

20:07KT: Like, the only worst power you would have, not worse, but the only pedestrian, there you go, if you'll pardon the pun, is super speed. That is the worst fucking that is the worst power you could have.

20:18Oti: Interesting things with super speed because Flash has that. And Flash can do a lot of amazing shit.

20:26KT: Interesting, but not satisfying. You

20:30Oti: Flash could run round and create a a time portal dimension sort of thing, which Luther can't. He can't live through the time space continuum and just, my energy and my power created a vacuum. No, mate. That that wouldn't work. His power is the most useless thing ever.

20:49KT: Yeah. I don't know why you hold this flag for Flash, but we don't have time and we don't have a couch to go through that, Sat. So he has superhuman strength, but he also has a noted ability of enhanced resilience. That sounds very wafty and very wankery, but they're talking about his actual body. Like, his physical body has been further amplified by new ape like physiology. So that's what it means. It's not like it's not like his sense of being.

21:23Oti: So so, yes, with him today. He didn't go to some serious therapy sessions and just built a monument of resilience with him. Oh,

21:32KT: he needed some enhanced resilience when he found all his fucking moon rocks in the floorboards.

21:37Oti: Oh, jeez. That

21:40KT: was too sad. Yeah. I know we explored some very dark themes, but to see someone like Luther experience that, it's not the most like, because, obviously, we have Allison and she's going through the civil rights movement. But I felt more sad for Luther because I don't think he had the resources equipped in him to handle that pain. Because he was a chosen one from from when he was a baby. But I think it's most docile, and I think it's most obedient. So I think that that tips the scales in my definition of why Reginald

22:13KT: counted him as the first. Because we have time travel. We have, you know, communicating with the dead. We have delicious hentai tentacles. And how is Luther number one?

22:24Oti: Right? Yep.

22:26KT: But I I it's Tom Hopper. We fucking love you. And you'll hear the same thing when we cover Black Sails. But he's just a character well-to-do. I think I think that's the letter face pretty much for Luther's character. He's and then he kind of became like the comic relief in season two. Yeah. Like, I guess the the emotional pull that we had from him was very strong in season one, and we were building to the moon rocks in the floorboards. What is it? What a phrase. What a triggering phrase for him. Mhmm.

23:02KT: And then in season two, he kind of just took a backseat and he kind of just became the comic relief, I felt. Yeah. I I felt the same Like any sort of dimension he might have had kind of wasted away.

23:14Oti: Yeah. He definitely took a backseat because we just see him of course, he's just gone completely off the rails because Allison isn't there anymore. He's fighting in some underground sort of Oenomaus like style battle. Spartacus reference. And then we have him sort of these scenes where he's just eating to sort of alleviate any sort of tension or or problems he might have. I'm like, yeah. All fun and all fun and games and not whatnot. But at the end of it, this is a character who had so many dimensions in the first season. Yeah.

23:50KT: He had dimensions. I feel like they watched a montage of Brad Pitt eating during films, and they thought, yeah. I'm gonna apply this to Spaceboy. Yeah. I didn't really care for that.

23:50Oti: But we have someone who not only was the leader of the group saw himself

23:50KT: Was he, though?

23:50Oti: He was. I think no one wanted to step up.

23:50KT: If no one wants to step up and you're the leader, are you really a leader though?

24:17Oti: It doesn't matter how you get that title, mate. As long as you're there and he's trying to pull. Well, we we know all these people applaud.

24:17KT: I see you gunning for my podcast throne and how dare you?

24:17Oti: Always guarding, mate.

24:32KT: I think he he kind of tries to keep the peace wherever he can. He's like the peacekeeper and he's a comic relief. That that's as much as I would say about Luther. Yeah.

24:32Oti: He I'd say he's the most logical one.

24:32KT: No. I don't think so.

24:32Oti: You reckon?

24:32KT: How many hair how brain many hair brain plans did he have even with Diego when they were calling that poor old lady? They were looking for some Olga and they were threatening her. Exactly. So there you go. Rewind and feel shame. Shame.

25:05KT: There's a Game of Thrones reference. Obligatory. So there you go. There there's Luther. I feel like the only Luther I want in my TV shows slash movies is Idris Elba as Luther. That's it. Mhmm. Like, that's all. They're gonna do a Luther movie, by the way. They're going to do a Luther movie. Yeah. Yeah. So very much excite. Who needs James Bond when you're Luther? Exactly.

25:30Oti: Exactly.

25:31KT: Fucking brilliant. Make sure you go and watch Luther, friends and lovers. Let's move on to number two. We have Diego Hargreaves. His name in the comic was the Kraken. The Kraken. And obviously known as number two. He has three abilities or skills. He has trajectory manipulation, which is pretty much doing Salt with a knife. Is Salt the one with the bending bullets? Salt is the one with the bending bullets. I'm doing the motion. So that's further exemplifying. We need to play charades again with people.

26:03Oti: I don't think I should be able play You've got the motion locked me.

26:07KT: Thank you, sir. Trajectory, manipulation, I think that's pretty straightforward. We don't really need to go into that. So he can bend shit. He's also a master knife thrower. What the fuck is the difference between okay. He's a master knife thrower, and he's a master combatant.

26:23Oti: Okay.

26:24KT: I think he was the best in in hand to hand combat. Yep. Because he had shit all else to give. Damn, dog. You're saying that after we talked about Luther, really? True.

26:36Oti: Well, he's not the worst. He's not the worst.

26:39KT: It's interesting that he was number two. But then again, maybe they were ranked because these abilities are much more closer to human sort of abilities. Abilities. Right? Right? So maybe they they they exemplified their powers much earlier than the harder sort of summoning of the dead. That's not something easy. But we saw we saw Diego stop bullets at this in season two. Actually, yeah. Why the fuck was he not doing that the whole series?

27:06Oti: So I'm not sure where his power's lying because he can stop bullets. You're right. He can stop bullets.

27:14KT: Why does he ever get injured? Actually, you're right. No. You're absolutely right. How many times did he get fucking injured? Why didn't oh, maybe his powers because remember his girlfriend died at the hands of Cha-Cha in season one. So I guess he can't remove the bullet once it's been put in. But in any case, that's a very, very strong power to have not used. I think you're you're trying to transpose

27:43Oti: Kristen Stewart's powers of a shield where she could where she could shield other people. I shield you from every magical effect. Doesn't work like that here. That was a very Butters command. It was, wasn't it? Yeah.

28:01KT: Listen to our Twilight episode. You'll notice it's the episode before this one. I but I just like Diego as a character. I fucking like him. I think he's great to have around. I like how emotional he is. I like how he goes from zero to a 100. No. He wasn't my favorite. Useful in a real world situation. But in a watching situation, it's fun. It's fun to watch him wanna watch everything burn.

28:31Oti: It's crazy that the first two in Luther and Diego are the most messed up with the most daddy issues ever. Daddy and mommy issues. Yeah. Oh, mommy issues. I even forgot. Yeah. It was mommy issues.

28:43KT: How could you forget? Didn't you see yourself on the screen, my love? Oh, wow. With Grace. Mhmm. With Grace. I thought it was interesting in season two that Grace was actually a real person. I just assumed that he created this perfect woman. I didn't realize

29:03Oti: I don't know what kind of fucked up shit. I don't know if he turned the real woman into or if he he modeled it after her. I think she I think he killed her and then turned her into a robot because he still loves her. And now she could have the perfect her in a sort of programmable way.

29:20KT: Friends and lovers, if you've ever listened to any of our episodes and you wonder, how the fuck are these two a couple? Oti just perfectly described our type of love. Striking urethras Oti. But interest you are actually, I fucking I fucking love that. Yes. Luther's got his daddy issues and Diego's got his mommy Oedipus issues. Yep. Wow. That's fucking interesting. But I I don't think we have the time and or mental capacity to deal with that today. Speaking of mental capacity, we now have number three, Allison Hargreaves.

30:03KT: And her name in the comics was The Rumor, which I guess you can kind of guess Yep. As well. The most straightforward sort of meme. She her powers was the most confusing and the most frustrating out of the seven. Because, you know, whenever you watch something, you enter into a world. And if it's a good world or if it's a good story, it starts to dictate to you what the limitations are of that world. Right?

30:33KT: What can be done, what can't be done. Usually, it's done through trial and error of the character going through the story. Sometimes it's just literal exposition where it's explained to us. Right? As far as we understood in the series, all she has to do was I heard a rumor. There's no limitations in what she can get people to do, how much of their own free will needs to be relinquished in order for that to happen. And even reading up, again, on my very learned wiki pages,

31:09KT: even in the comic, there there doesn't seem to be any sort of restrictions in regards to what her character can do. Also, interestingly enough, in the comic, it appeared as though she actually used her powers on Luther. So how much of Luther actually feels genuine towards Allison is into question because she needed she I guess she's that sort of woman that needs to be comforted by a man. See Bella in our last episode. So she actually used Luther for that emotional sort of comfort. Wow. Yeah. And apparently, she was way more manipulative

31:47KT: in the comic, and they try to make her more agreeable for the

31:47Oti: Why did it change her so much then?

31:47KT: I think, you know, very similar to what we were saying about The Boys. You know, The Boys was fucking salacious and it was gratuitous and it was sexual. It was way more sexual than we could handle. Like, look at the first scene of the first volume of The Boys. I I guess maybe to make it more palatable, make it make it more rating friendly. I'm not sure. But apparently

32:16KT: or maybe it's just because Allison's not a throwaway character, and they want people to like her from the outset.

32:23Oti: Okay. All that makes sense. But then you end up with a character who Watered down. Yes. Lofty.

32:31KT: Yes. Indecisive. Yes. And that I guess that was the that was the qualms, the foundational qualms that we had with Allison. So let's quickly go through her skills and abilities. She has mental manipulation. So prefacing a statement with, I heard a rumor. And it doesn't even it doesn't even specify whether she needs to directly be talking to someone.

32:48Oti: Or can she just shout it to the in the room? I'm sure she can shout it out Yeah. To

32:56KT: Because that would be a much stronger power than just doing it one person individually. Have a rumor whispering in someone's ear. Rumor has it, and then that's it. Right? So it's mental manipulation. And one of her abilities is that she's a skilled combatant.

33:13Oti: So I guess the same sort of everyone them are skilled combatants, so it doesn't count Pretty much. As a skill, does it? Pretty much. But I I I guess it's the filler. It's a it's a stocking stuffer. Just like most of them speak five languages, it doesn't mean that it's like they were taught like that. So Yeah. Right? Is default setting, mate.

33:33KT: Okay, Oti beakman. You're welcome. Archer reference. Reference. Meh, meh, meh. But, yeah, there there was a lot that came into question with Allison's character because a lot of the times we're understanding the power limitations. But I think a lot of hers was her morality. But it's like and also in the comics, her husband, Patrick, she actually used it on him.

33:59Oti: Woah. That's interesting. Used it to

34:01KT: further her career, but I don't think she was a celebrity in the comics. But she used it in her career. But apparently, it it was much more fleshed out that she used it in the comics.

34:13Oti: That would make so much sense because what the Allison we have on Netflix is an Allison that's so timid, afraid to use her own power. And, apparently, the only time she used the power was was on the daughter, and then she just stopped completely.

34:30KT: And I'm like, mate, why are you even here? Why are we even seeing you right now? Like, it kinda makes me feel like Michael C. Hall's Dexter is more virtuous than her because because at least he was targeting, like, people that deserved it. I have a code. I live by a code. Men gotta have a code. Mhmm. And that is the reference trilogy of all. But yeah. Because all we saw in the TV show was her using it on her fucking kid. And, like and to have such a big plot point,

35:05KT: it kind of undoes any sort of goody goody nature that you try to attach to it. Because I think she just wanted a kid to shut up. I literally think that's what it was in the TV show.

35:15Oti: And does she has to does she have to say it verbally? Like, I heard a rumor for it to activate, or can she mentally

35:23KT: think it just because even in season two, when we had the Swedes come to her place with her new husband, she was grunting and groaning on the floor. It's like, mate, I'm pretty sure you can whisper I heard a rumor right now. Yeah. Yeah. Like Yeah. How

35:39Oti: does this because, again, I try to look into it, and it was it doesn't even seem like it's unless you actually eye contact? Should there be, What are the rules with this? What are we living around Allison?

35:49KT: What are her restrictions? Because currently to be restrictions because if there are no restrictions, then that's just a fucking weak story. Yeah. So apparently also in the comics, even further to what much, much further than what we saw in the series, she can actually slightly alter reality. So as as far as we understand the rules, even though they're very weak rules, she she can she can bend people's actions and behaviors to her own desires. Mhmm. Right? But in the comics, she can slightly alter reality. What that means is if she goes into a store

36:26KT: and very topical, there's no toilet paper, she can actually imagine that to appear. Oh. That's fucking powerful.

36:35Oti: Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure why the water is even hard down. We were shortchanged and,

36:41KT: you know, Emmy was also shortchanged. But she I think her character was white in the comics. So credit where credit is due. I heard a rumor that there were definitely some structural issues, particularly in regards to Allison. How many times? Even when her husband how many times? I think when they were having a community meeting in the salon and they had I think he was a he he owned a lot of buildings. Right? But he didn't own that building that they were meeting in. She very easily could have said,

37:20KT: you know, after she beat him up, I heard a rumor you're never gonna tell anyone about this. And that's everything solved in regards to him, her and the husband. Like, it was ridiculous. I think this is also a perfect time to bring it up as well. When when we when we ended season one and we started season two, pretty much up until episode five and six, it was focusing on one character and their lives during that one, two, or three years depending on when they landed in that timeline. Mhmm. Right?

37:53KT: I felt like a lot of those stories didn't feel lived in. Like, Allison just got plunked together with her husband and it's like, okay. Like, I felt no chemistry between them and it's it's not to say anything about the acting ability. I think it was more like like, we weren't given an inkling into the world. It's just like, yep. This is happening. We're just going to put them together. You know, it was interesting to have that storyline of the civil rights movement,

38:19KT: but it just felt like it was just thrown in together as opposed to it feeling lived in. Can see. The same with Sissy and Vanya as well. Yeah. I I I just wanted I wanted to care more about Allison as a character. But like we said, like, her her lack of tenacity became watered down. So we we kind of really didn't get a sense of who she was because she kept saying it was her her moral fiber that was stopping her from doing stuff, and then people are fucking suffering around her.

38:51KT: But you didn't mind using it on your kid. So there was a lot of disparity that was going on with Allison. Let's move on to, I think my favorite. I would definitely, definitely, definitely say is my favorite, Klaus.

39:09Oti: Klaus, the cult leader. Number four.

39:13KT: And he in the comics was known as The Seance.

39:17Oti: Okay. That's appropriate.

39:19KT: Very appropriate. So the two skills and abilities he has is mediumship. Mhmm. So, you know, we we we can talk about it in more detail, but it's essentially being able to communicate with spirits. Then we So we have if I love you, it's sort of thing?

39:36Oti: Yes. Okay. Yeah.

39:38KT: How how much of that was was research Oti?

39:42Oti: A 100%.

39:44KT: Jennifer Love Hewitt. Was that in Scream? And then his second skill or ability is evocation. So that's him being able to summon the dead. So he can talk to them if they're there, but he can also summon them. Part of the explanation about Reginald not appearing at the funeral was he was being very stubborn stubborn and he just didn't wanna be summoned. Actually, that adds extra complexity and more accolades to Klaus because not only was he summoning, you know, a spirit, but he was also summoning an extraterrestrial.

40:25Oti: Right? Yeah.

40:27KT: That's just more splooshes in my Klaus Mountain.

40:31Oti: So

40:33KT: let's talk about Klaus. I think if you're watching it on surface level, you can see a very a very fun and tantalizing character full of salaciousness and frivolity. But if you peel back, you know, the presenting sort of layers within Klaus, you can see that he has a lot more depth to him. And he actually has an anchorage within the group. And when they choose to listen to him, he actually has a lot to offer. He adds a lot of depth in this. Yeah. Absolutely. And we can see, like, in the first season,

41:12Oti: I think I wasn't bought into Klaus, at least the first five episodes. And I was like

41:16KT: Yeah. What are they trying say five, though. But, yeah, I I agree that there is an initial

41:23Oti: A bulk of the first first episodes on season one Okay. I hadn't fully bought into Klaus, and he he seemed like a spoiled brat. Seemed like he didn't want responsibilities. Mhmm. He seemed just He was very one dimensional. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, what's up with him? And then once he start to uncover, know, once he start peeling that onion Yeah. Then we get to see who Klaus is as a character. Mhmm. His personality and and how much he cares. And and the storyline with him and Dave. Oh.

41:56KT: The according to the series and also in the comics, the only reason he ever even tried to attempt sobriety was to try and conjure Dave.

42:07Oti: Oh.

42:09KT: And we also heard it in the show as well. He he Dave was the only person that he ever loved more than himself. Any sort of entanglements Can I just say, I said entanglements on the podcast well way before? Yep. Jada must be listening in. Yeah. So I listened to our first Insecure episode. I think that's the first time I said entanglement. But a a lot of his sort of entanglements that he had was because he needed a place to stay most of the time or he he he just needed some sort of anchorage.

42:45KT: I feel like Klaus is definitely the most satisfying character to watch. He was very sure of himself. It was more us starting to understand who he was and what he went through. And I I like, even imagining yourself, like, got flashbacks in season two of when Ben died. Right? And you see how hard Klaus took it. And then you see baby Klaus and baby Ben for the first time and Ben not passing over. And for a lot of the series, we felt like Ben stayed around for Klaus. Yeah. Yeah. That was fucking heartfelt.

43:27KT: It was really heartfelt. And that was that was what kept me going through season two because there was a lot of bullshit and frivolity going on, especially with particular storylines. But Klaus and Ben alone, I could live a thousand lifetimes in that.

43:45Oti: Yeah. I appreciated that. Especially when sort of Ben died at the end because Spoiler. If you're this far and you've not stopped Motherfuckers do it, babe. It's your fault. Anyway, what he does at the end and and the one thing he tells Vanya Uh-huh. Tell Klaus that I stayed behind, not because of him, but because I was scared. I think part of it was because Klaus was feeling guilty Yeah. That he took the one opportunity for Ben to go towards the light, you know, and just

44:21Oti: be free from the world. I I was just, oh, I loved it so much.

44:26KT: Me too. And it's funny because we get on this podcast and we talk mad shit and we're like, this wasn't perfectly constructed. But once once once the tethers have latched onto me emotionally in regards to characters, I fucking feel everything I need to feel. Right? Because the whole way along, particularly, it ramped up in season two with Ben.

44:50KT: He was being very judgy, and everything he ever said to Klaus was very judgmental. And I'm like, why the fuck? Get lost then. Right? Uh-huh. That even though I was feeling that fucking tears, man, even Vanya talking, was like, oh, I was not I was not ready for this. And then there was that switch when we realized that Ben wasn't going to be able to leave. Yeah. He was actually going to pass over because he was ready to move on. Mhmm. Right? And I think a lot of that,

45:21KT: you know, a lot of that had to do with him not experiencing what he felt like he needed to experience. But again, we can go into that once we talk about Ben. But going back to Klaus, he has immense power. And we saw that nearing the end of season one, particularly when Klaus is kidnapped by Cha-Cha and also Hazel. Right? And there's literally no way for him to escape aside from his own actions and his own volition. He was also sober at the time, not by choice.

45:55KT: So he was able to summon that. And a lot of that, we saw the spirits that were haunting Cha-Cha and Hazel, guess for lack of better word, coming to life and manifesting themselves to Klaus and he was able to utilize that. He literally had his own ghost army. And we never really got to see that to that level again. No other ghosts followed him. He couldn't raise any sort of ghost, like, army.

46:26KT: Are you telling me in those fields where Sissy lived, there were no bodies there that he could summon at all?

46:33Oti: Does it work with proximity of where he is and where he stands? I think he he can just conjure up any sort of dead the dead.

46:42KT: I would agree with that, but I would say in regards to the series, we haven't seen the build up to that. So I would say that that would be something that you work up to. Because it would be even more of a barrier to understand his powers. Yeah. Maybe so. Because the way I took it was Cha-Cha and Hazel's victims were following them around. They're in like some sort of purgatory. Right? So it was

47:09KT: I I I fucking love Klaus as a cult leader. I I think it makes sense in every sense of the way. Mhmm. More than a Jared Leto sort of leadership, I'll be there with Klaus's flyers. Klaus was magnificent in way of character development, in way of complication, in way of fanfare. To see him experience what he experienced with Dave was something that, you know, even people that haven't experienced romantic love can relate to on some level. Yeah. When you stop fussing about your own, you know, also valid, but your own issues

47:56KT: and you want to give everything to someone else. And that's what Klaus brought to this series. To know that every time he's sober, he would some like the spirits would come to him and that's when his power would be the strongest alludes to a very sad childhood. Yeah. So a very sad, you know, adolescence. And we also had flashbacks of, you know, Reginald throwing him in a grave. Like, just letting letting the spirits come to Klaus and, you know, to to

48:34KT: I I guess to apply it in as much as you can into real life, that would be a lot for anyone to have to handle. It would be. So all of that sort of one dimensional sex, drugs and rock and roll that we have with Klaus, it starts to feel a more realistic and more resonating sort of picture of what it's like to escape and what it's like to deal with your vices. Vices that were created to drown out the world essentially.

49:06Oti: Yeah.

49:07KT: But before this turns into a Klaus cult love fest. Mhmm. Oh, that was a tasty morsel to have in my mouth. Sure was. Let's move on to, I would say, my second favorite character.

49:20Oti: Mhmm.

49:22KT: Five. Five didn't even get a name. His name in the comic was The Boy. Brahms, if you nasty. Brahms. Mhmm. So five has a lot. Now five has a lot. I'm just going to read what the skills and abilities are because it is a lot. Teleportation.

49:40Oti: Mhmm.

49:41KT: Chronokinesis, master combatant, master assassin, super genius intelligence, and also intimidation. Okay.

49:50Oti: Master producer, super DJ. Yeah. DJ Khaled in the works. Oh, wow. Five is great. Yeah. He he he's he's the one I think we first we took to quickest.

50:08KT: Oh, yes. We latched on to him very quickly. Yeah. Like,

50:12Oti: what's not to like about him? He knows the goals. He knows what he has to do. He doesn't let feelings come in his way. And I think most of that has to do with the fact that he stayed alone for forty two fucking years. Oh, yeah. So there's no room for bullshit.

50:27KT: That was some I Am Legend shit. Yeah.

50:30Oti: At least Will Smith had a dog mate.

50:32KT: But he's an icon chilling.

50:35Oti: I'm just an icon podcasting.

50:37KT: Oh, look at you. Splooshy splooshy. Five was very interesting. Aidan Gallagher is very frightening in the sense that, a lot of the times and again, I'll reference our Twilight episode because we just did it. Especially in regards to Taylor Lautner and I'm playing Jacob. Like, it bothers me because you have precocious children, but even more than that, I get annoyed when I see kids act or sing about subject matter that they just don't understand. Right? You might be a good singer, but you don't understand what it's like to be retching on the floor

51:18KT: and, you know, feeling that real grown love. Right? Yeah. But Aidan Gallagher is very frightening because I believed his whole performance. I did too. Like, I need I need actual evidence that he's not secretly like the Orphan. He's

51:35Oti: He's 35 years old. Suffering for some condition.

51:41KT: Because he's he's so believable. Even Aidan just as a person, you know, if you watch interviews, he he really is the way he is on Umbrella Academy without any pressure because he's young. I guess another tidbit is he actually couldn't be present for a lot of the gun scenes Oh. As per the law. But, yeah, it's just interesting because he plays that role so well. I do worry because sometimes when people play roles so well, it's hard for them to, like, latch onto the next project. Yeah.

52:12KT: Yeah. But at the same time, like, we're just here to enjoy it.

52:17Oti: No. I feel like his future is gonna be big. While he's producing Umbrella Academy, I think he'll be able to replicate it because it's it's so the things he does, man, like, it's so nuanced. And the fact that he's able to convince us that this kid Yeah. Can can can has the capacity to to to handle all the shit that's going around in this world and to

52:43Oti: pretty much be the leader of the group Oh, yes. In not so many worlds because he's probably he's the one that's pushing the agenda of actually saving the world, the one thing they've all been brought up to try and do. Uh-huh. Something that they've all sort of ran away from because of daddy issues or mommy issues.

52:43KT: Can I point out that you called Five the leader?

53:03Oti: Yeah. He is.

53:03KT: And then, like, twenty minutes ago, you said that Luther was the leader. I just Well I just wanna make that comparison very clear. Just because

53:12Oti: Luther is the sort of mandated leader. I'm the leader because papa said so. Papa said doesn't mean that he's the leader just be when it comes to the interactions with the group and the interactions with his family.

53:26KT: You could you could Okay. That just sounds like a participation award. You're either you're either the leader or you're not.

53:34Oti: Well well You're the leader. Carries himself as the leader then, if that makes it easy for you to swallow.

53:41KT: Oh my. I thought we weren't talking about post podcast activities, my love. Yeah. Yeah. But Five definitely is the leader in every sense of the word. Whether he would be the leader if he hadn't have been overzealous and disappeared and he had grown up with them, I guess is a story for another day. But it is all to the benefit of the group. And I'm pretty sure the web searches for sequined mannequins went up catastrophically during season one of the account. The fact that he he's a young kid and he was able to

54:23KT: make us believe in the love that he had for a mannequin, acting is a fucking craft. Mhmm. Thespians still exist. Mhmm. It's not just dicks, dicks, dicks. Yeah. It's Dolores, Dolores, Dolores. Swinging motherfucking Dolores. But Five definitely gives a lot. And I guess if he wasn't there, there wouldn't really be a show.

54:51Oti: No. Not really. They all would have died. Yeah. Is the foundation of Umbrella Academy.

54:57KT: And I will not hear otherwise.

55:00Oti: Oh, yeah.

55:02KT: Shall we move on, my love? Okay. So we've talked a bit about Ben, but let's give him the credit he deserves. So he is number six and in the comics, he's referred to as The Horror. The Horror? Not the Rocky Horror, just The Horror. Oh, okay. So a little less jazzy. The first in his skill or abilities is eldritch tentacles. Oh, that that's a weird way to spell hentai. It's essentially tentacles you see protruding out of his stomach. I don't know if that's how sex works. I guess, ask Oti after hours.

55:40KT: And then also possession. That's an interesting one because I I I guess it depends on is it a matter of whether Ben has a strong possession ability or is it about whether the person that is about to be possessed is more willing to be possessed?

56:00Oti: I'd argue that the possession ability comes from Klaus rather than Interesting. Ben. Because Klaus is the one that's conjuring up ghosts. They're tethered. Yeah. So whether or not you can possess him, it's based solely on Klaus. It's not a Ben ability, is it?

56:20KT: Well, I I would I would argue with you very deliciously because he was able to possess Vanya and stop the apocalypse. Right? So so in some way he does get that merit.

56:36Oti: I forgot about that.

56:38KT: Do you just see plot twist. Smoke bomb. Smoke bomb. Yeah. Krieger reference. Archer reference. Reference. Couldn't exactly see what because because he died. Right? Mhmm. Mysterious circumstances and I still don't think it's very clear how or why or who's responsible for his death. But I wonder what his actually his actual ability was.

57:05Oti: Because that happens after you die. Right? Or did he always have that? Tentacles is he's always had that because all we've seen is on the bank. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We see that. So I think the possession one just comes later or he discovers it later. But does that mean all of them will have possession when they die eventually? If they die and get conjured by Klaus for ten or so more years, then maybe that

57:28KT: I love how you say that Klaus is the gateway. Klaus is the gateway. That is some merch. That is some merch right there. Klaus is the gateway. But there you go. And obviously, lot of the emotional payoff that we have for season two is Ben finally crossing over. And obviously Vanya shares his final thoughts with Klaus as well. I think those were my favorite pairings, Ben and Klaus. I

58:03KT: really enjoyed seeing them together as much as Ben bothered me at the same time, he talked a lot about, it's like wanting to experience a hug, but you can't fully receive it. And one of his final moments that was very, very emotional was him wanting to hug Vanya so he could actually feel it for real. Because even via Klaus, it wasn't fully him. So I thought that was a very beautiful sort of send off. It didn't even give me time to get pissed off that we are going to have Ben again.

58:36KT: Like don't kill off characters for emotional payoff and then bring them back. Just like Taylor from The Bold and the Beautiful. Mhmm. Spoiler. Spoiler. Spoiler. But if you haven't Spoiler for Bold and the Beautiful. Wow.

58:50Oti: And that was ages ago, mate. If if anyone has not watched Bold and the Beautiful and sitting here think, oh, I'd start watching it from what what year was that? '96?

59:01KT: It was ages ago, man. Some nineteen fifties housewife is clutching her pearls right now. But there there you go. We we do try and give our spoilers.

59:12Oti: Oh my god. Forgot about that nonsense.

59:14KT: Well, it was either Taylor or Brooke. Right? Yeah.

59:17Oti: Well, it was always Team Taylor.

59:19KT: They were the OG, The Boy Is Mine. The Ridge is mine.

59:26Oti: But I prefer Thorne, man.

59:32KT: Are we slowly becoming the Bold and Beautiful podcast?

59:36Oti: Yes. We are. I prefer Thorne. I don't know anything about Ridge on this.

59:44KT: Let's let's let's take a moment to, you know, spill our seed and lay our splooshies. Bold and the Beautiful is the coke of soap dramas. Whether it's Coca Cola or whether it is pure Coke. Right? Days of Our Lives is like the Pepsi.

60:00Oti: Yep. Fair enough. I can see that. Yep.

60:04KT: It's the one you text at 3AM, but it's not the one you're going home to. Well, there you go. If anyone wanted an insight into what we would sound like as a soap opera

60:04Oti: Well, the original Thorne before they replaced him with some wonky ass looking man.

60:04KT: No. You need to accept all.

60:04Oti: No. You just have to take the first Thorne. Except for Ridge because that was very painful.

60:04KT: Yeah. That was. I don't think my mom has ever recovered from it. Thought it died. They

60:28KT: did a whole media circuit of the guy that plays Ridge, and he came to Australia. It was a whole thing. Really? Yeah. Don't worry about it. I guess we can continue this on Twitter, but it was a whole it was a whole situation. But I guess let's just leave it there. Let's come to full circle number seven, Vanya Hargreaves, The White Violin.

60:55Oti: The White Violin with all the powers in the world. The plot device. Plot device, archetype, everything you wanna throw at her, she will be the one.

61:07KT: Oh, and her love interest in the first season, he has a persnickety face. Like, if persnickety was personified in a face, that it would be that guy.

61:17Oti: Yes. I I half expected Tench to come up and say, are you serious? Look at the person you're dating.

61:24KT: Like like a projector screen. Yeah. See, like, ladies and gentlemen, this is what a fucking asshole looks like. Yep. This is like Mindhunter episode just waiting to explode. Which we need to cover. We were waiting for another season, but, you know, life is nonlinear, apparently. Mhmm. Vanya Hargreaves, it it was hard to latch on her as a character even though I think a lot of us would be Vanya, at least the first early Vanya of being useless and being around people that are super gifted.

61:56Oti: Yeah. You you've gotta write that book, mate.

62:02KT: Vanya is the indie podcast of The Seven. Just looking around at, you know, all of the big podcasts around her. But, yeah, I have a problem when characters become the most important thing. Mhmm. Like JJ from Criminal Minds. Yeah. AJ Cook, I'm looking at you. Like, it just bothers me when a character becomes, you know, every single orifice they're involved in.

62:30Oti: You need a a special agent who can do roundhouse kicks, who can shoot Save yourself from terrorists. Save his be Jack Bauer, be Scofield, be everyone you want in one. Be Adebisi. Pretty much.

62:44KT: I I just have a personal abhorrence to characters that become everything in the show, and that's kind of what we were seeing with Vanya. She's also the foundational qualm that I have with Umbrella Academy if I were to have qualms. Because at the end of season one, she did cause an apocalypse, but they didn't suffer it. They actually, you know, zoomed back in time. Mhmm. But then she also triggers it again, but then we kind of get a almost apocalypse. So we're edging. Like, we're edging our way to a real apocalypse. Yeah.

63:19Oti: Vanya will always be the cause. So I'm I'm here sitting. I'm ready for season two. I'm waiting. Give me a fucking different storyline. Season three? No. Season two. We just watched season two. Oh, you're saying okay. Right. I was waiting for something different. Don't give me the far the same fucking season.

63:37KT: Yeah. We got the same thing. Yeah.

63:40Oti: We just sort of stretched out storylines in between that didn't even mean make any sort of sense in the overarching sort of narrative. It was to the level of Naruto ostrich ninja filler.

63:52KT: Because the first five to six episodes, the the the the storylines, especially with Vanya and Sissy, they didn't feel real. They just felt like they were there. So the first five, almost six episodes were nothing. Like, we knew that there was an apocalypse and they all got spread out and we needed them to regroup. But nothing happened until episode five or six and that was fucking annoying. Yeah. I don't necessarily like having topsy-turvy sort of narratives, which is what we're getting with the Sparrow Academy.

64:25KT: Like, for me, that's very season five, season six, season ten of a show, not a season three. But after having two edgelord apocalypses, I most welcome a Sparrow Academy, especially with Ben at the helm. I wonder if they'll do opposite powers. That's usually how it works. Right? Yeah. They have opposite powers. So their strength is their weakness. Right? Grasshopper. Let me quickly read off since I did everyone else's skills and abilities. This is a long list. So Vanya, we have audiokinesis, telekinesis, flight, sound projection, energy projection, force field generation, matter manipulation, enhanced hearing,

65:11KT: atmokinesis, power distribution, telepathic link, expert vinyl violinist.

65:17Oti: But

65:18KT: why the fuck does she get knocked out, like, when they're in the farm?

65:23Oti: I don't know. And if she So would power distribution explain why she could be able to can share her powers with Harlan.

65:30KT: Yeah. But then why doesn't she just kiss all of her siblings and then they can get some of the power too?

65:38Oti: But she he she brought that kid back to life. So is once you get her power, you get revitalized and you come back to life if you're dead? Can he can she do the same thing to Ben's corpse?

65:51KT: Right. Don't she ever try? That is some necrophilic shit that we are not we are definitely actually, no. No. No. No. No. When Ben was hugging Vanya, why didn't she try kissing him then? Take my power. Oh my god. She could have kissed him then. Wow. Sixpence None the Richer, hey? No. No, man. Under the milky twilight? If you're too young to understand that, then that's okay. Just acknowledge our explicit tag.

66:24Oti: Mhmm.

66:25KT: But those are the seven. And I knew we were going to get into a meaty discussion. But is there anyone else that you wanna talk to? Not really. You mentioned Mindhunter, so shout out to Cameron Britton. He plays Hazel. I fucking told you. When we were watching season one and I saw Hazel, I'm like, babe, I think that's Kemper. And you're like, no, it's not. And I'm like because he kind of looks a bit different. I think he had curly hair as well. Or there there was some defining He

66:55KT: he looked a bit different, but his voice as well. I was like, that's Kemper. So there you go. We also gave a shout out to Mary J. Blige. We talked about Reginald. We also talked about Grace a little bit. Is there anything else you wanna say about Pogo?

67:12Oti: Oh. Oh, it's sad that he died. It was a it was a sort of emotional

67:17KT: really die? Maybe this is like Because we went back and we saw little Pogo. I think this is anime level of, like, people just not dying. Yeah. It It was interesting to see the way that they raised Pogo and they taught him. I thought it was funny how he hurt Diego. Diego is the swashbuckler in this podcast. Not in this podcast, in this show.

67:42Oti: The Handler. We haven't really talked about the Handler at all. Mhmm. She's only interested in herself, man. Her goals, she's ambitious as fuck.

67:51KT: She's efficient though.

67:52Oti: No? What she did you call her efficient?

67:57KT: They allude to some sort of entanglement with five. Yeah. But it's weird because I know that Aidan Gallagher is like underage and she keeps like alluding to and just, like, not not in a sexual way, but she touches him. And I'm like, it it feels weird to me. But

68:18Oti: I I think they had some sort of history. Yeah. They they definitely had some sort of history. But I think that was more when he lived forty five years alone.

68:27KT: Yeah. When he's giving his mannequin a break. Yeah. I I guess it was very interesting to see her, but to to believe anything that she says, I think is a detriment to yourself. It's weird that, you know, with all of the powers that Five had, that he didn't sense something was awry. I guess the last thing that I wanted to touch on is Lila Pitts. Mhmm. So, you know, we talked about it at the top of the episode that there were around 43 babies born at the same time around the world and possibly Lila is one of them.

69:03Oti: I think she's definitely one of them.

69:08KT: I'm annoyed that I guess it's fine, but it's like they're they're not closing storylines that could be closed. So it's like, you know, we're going to come across her later on. I don't think she's a part of the Sparrow Academy though.

69:08Oti: I don't think either.

69:08KT: Do you think there's any sort of like, do you care about Lila at all?

69:25Oti: I don't care about Lila's character. She annoyed the hell out of me. I don't know. She just she was so fucking naive, and I don't I don't buy that in a lot of sort of stories and characters that if you just had to put two and two together Uh-huh. She was given the hint that she was given a report of the handler having, you know, her mother or whatever Uh-huh. Having her family killed and everyone, and she just she just took everything weirdly and

69:58KT: Yeah. Like, I don't know. It just it was weird. I didn't like her as a character at all. Yeah. But I think, you know, if she does come back to the show, they'll give her more storyline and then maybe we'll emotionally care care about about her. Her. She's entitled as well. She is. So I guess if we see her, we see her. I don't necessarily wanna end on a negative note, but I do just wanna round out season two and our feelings on it.

70:28KT: What season one did for Umbrella Academy is an experience that I wish I could experience again. However, what I experienced in season two was an inferior carbon copy of what I experienced in season one. It's what I thought I was going to get in Umbrella Academy before I had ever watched it. And what I mean by that is that there was a lot of lacking in emotional investment and any sort of emotional investment we had was inferred

70:58KT: and it wasn't natural to how we were feeling as an audience. We were just told that we were supposed to care. Even the fun sort of song lyrics that Klaus would have was hampered by the lack of overarching narrative. And all of Luther's ribbing and gesturey sort of comic relief was also hampered by its lack of overarching narrative. Like we know that you guys are gonna reunite. We know there's going to be an impending apocalypse possibly through Vanya. So let's move on. And unfortunately, that didn't happen until episode five or episode six.

71:41KT: So I guess it'll be interesting to see what season three will look like with the Sparrow Academy. But at least in my heart, I'll always have season one.

71:52Oti: For sure.

71:53KT: We are going to finish off in a segment we call, For Your Reference, Oti.

71:59Oti: Oh, it's quite obvious. I think the only sort of logical thing to reference here is Doom Patrol. Nice. Yeah. What do you got, KT?

72:11KT: Where? Where where do you wanna know what I have? So we've we've mentioned it quite a lot throughout this episode, and it's also coming out in a month's time. So we are going to reference, as in me, myself, and I Uh-huh. Yikes, are going to reference The Boys. Oh. Yep. So get those teats ready. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We take kindly to your kind around here. If anything concerned you during this episode, if anything concerned us during this episode,

72:44KT: feel free to fight with us on Twitter and Instagram. We are @ForYourRefPod. You can write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We also have Apple Podcasts if you would like to rate and review us, and we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.