The Sixth Sense – Ghostface Kyra

Full transcript of The Sixth Sense – Ghostface Kyra.

0:00KT: It is a very sizzling week in the For Your Reference podcast, and we are starting off with unguess me. Oti, Oti, Oti. Mhmm. I think if I say it two more times, I'm gonna be in trouble. Yep. Sweetie Man will show up. Sweetie Man, go and listen to our District 9 episode conveniently before this one. So let's both on the count of three divulge whether we saw the ultimate mega twist coming when we watched The Sixth Sense for the first time. Three, two, 1. No. Nope. Alright.

0:38KT: Well, let's learn some more things about each other, my love, as we get on to the show. Hey, friends and lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT.

0:38Oti: And Oti.

0:38KT: And lower the volume on the cough syrup commercial because I am ready to communicate with you now. Yes, friends and lovers. We are finally sinking all of our teeth and all of our love places into the Sixth Sense today.

1:33Oti: Mhmm.

1:34KT: And as Paul would say, quoting myself, hoo hoo hoo. What an experience, Oti. Yep. Indeed. Alright. We are tinkling in all of the splooshy places. So let's quickly get through the stats. We have writer, director, every extraordinaire, M. Night Shyamalan. Mhmm. We have stars of Bruce Willis, as Kieran Peel would say, go and listen to our episode, Haley Joel Osment, and the ever eternal universal Toni Collette.

2:10Oti: Yep.

2:11KT: This film was released in October 1999. It had a budget of $40,000,000. Woah. You know, we've been on this podcasting purgatory for quite a while Oti or at least for a cute amount of time and sometimes budgets just mean nothing right it's crazy to see what can be achieved or what isn't achieved with respective budgets. But 40,000,000, I'm just like, I wouldn't think that you would need that much for this film. There you go. And a worldwide gross of $672,800,000. Wow. Wow indeed, sir.

2:53Oti: Oh, Shyamalan made bank.

2:55KT: Yeah. That's a lot of Shyamalama ding dongs. Oh, wow.

3:01KT: Well, if you're getting a tasting of what this episode is going to be, strap in friends and lovers and strap on if you're feeling nasty.

3:09Oti: Nasty? Oh my. Was that the Madonna KT?

3:09KT: Mhmm. Oh, she needs to get back in her cave. Let's start off with first impressions, Oti. If you are new to the For Your Reference podcast, we take kindly to your kind around here. If you have perused For Your Reference for more than 6¢ of episodes, Join us for the ride, and we love you even more.

3:36KT: Yes. We do. Alright, Oti. So kick us off. How many times have you watched Sixth Sense, and how did you feel watching it now?

3:36Oti: This is my second time watching it.

3:36KT: Only?

3:36Oti: Only.

3:47Oti: I think the first time I watched this, it was just, I think, a few months after it come out, and I just I was shocked by the ending. Mhmm. I think I wasn't used to the fact that I was watching a Bruce Will Willis film that wasn't action packed. You know, he'd just done Fifth Element. I'm a ghetto. I was like, this is what I'm living for. Like, he was the action star before he had to go chickless bold. Yeah. So

4:13Oti: so this took me kind of on the left side, and I I I appreciated that. I was like, I didn't like it that much the first time I watched it. Mhmm. And then the ending, I was just pissed because I didn't pick it up. Mhmm. But rewatching the second time, it feels so freaking obvious. There's so many hints. And I was just laughing to myself. Sometimes I couldn't even hope keeping it, and it came out loudly. Just Mhmm. KT, are you picking these? Are you picking these?

4:43Oti: So it was really exciting rewatching this and knowing that this was your first time.

4:43KT: Yeah. Thank you for deflowering my experience.

4:43Oti: You're welcome.

4:43KT: I really appreciate it. You know, reverse primonocus, as they like to say, or as we like to say, rather. Yeah. So this was my first experience watching Sixth Sense. I guess this is also spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. But, also, at the same time, I knew that he there's that iconic line of I see dead people. And I thought that was the whole twist, so I kind of just continued on,

5:18KT: like, my merry way with my snooty snoot and my smuggiest of smug. I felt like I knew what the movie was gonna be. So I'm like, okay. Fine. Let me see what all the kids are talking about. What are the kids raving about with this film? And I I do need to make an official statement, and I guess if if you can make official statements on a podcast. This is KT from the For Your Reference podcast in 2020, and I wanna officially apologize to M. Night Shyamalan.

5:50KT: I think it was in our Twilight episode because that episode was supposed to be The Last Airbender, and we gave up on it. Like we said in our Godfather episodes, legends can do whatever the fuck they want. And if M. Night Shyamalan gave us The Sixth Sense in all of its entities, he can continue to do whatever the fuck he wants, even bastardize a well beloved childhood and young adult classic known as that Nickelodeon series.

6:19Oti: Nah. Wow. I am You're giving too many free passes, man.

6:25KT: They're they're they're counterfeit, but I will give out as many free passes as I can. I fucking loved this film. It elevated from a movie to a film literally in the last act. I am usually not a fan of things trying to turn around because of the twist, which usually is like the final crescendo at the end of a movie.

6:49KT: You know, if you've lost me, you've lost me. Like, cool. We can have a twist at the end, but you've lost me if you haven't got me in the first sort of quarter or first third if I'm being generous. Right? But who who who? I tells you. We make a lot of Archer references. M. Night Shyamalan is Krieger, and we are Krieger's nipples. And that twist was so fucking hard.

7:15Oti: I am not Jakomeko san.

7:19KT: Well, not yet. Mhmm. Not yet. But oh, fucking wow. Fucking fucking wow. I you know, we'll we'll get into, you know, the film and, you know, some more details about it. But just talking very generally about The Sixth Sense, it is something that has always existed, at least since 1999. Yeah. Right? It is something that has always existed

7:45KT: and whenever you have time, you're going to watch it and I I forgot which episode it was but films can really be dormant volcanoes like they're just sitting there waiting for you to enjoy it and it will erupt all over you in the most splooshiest of ways. Mhmm. And that's exactly how I felt in this movie. I really felt like things were quite flat. There was that reveal that we were waiting to see about whether Cole can genuinely see ghosts or not because

8:17KT: a lot of the time, especially if you are watching it in 2020 for the first time, you've heard inklings of that's what the film's about. So I felt because I already knew what I thought we were working towards, nothing was really fleshed out. We never really got to understand Lynn, Cole's mother, beyond what was on the page. She only existed within the realms of the script. Also

8:44KT: with Doctor Crowe as well. Like, there was so much that I felt like we could be focusing on if we were just going to wait for the reveal like keep me entertained until we get to where I think we're going and then it just busted wide open and I love it like I absolutely love it This is the first time in a long time that I've felt that, like, the the visceral experience of cinema and it is encapsulated

9:13KT: in The Sixth Sense.

9:13Oti: Was it cathartic for you knowing how you you saw it ending? Did you go back in your mind trying to piece together all the hints that you sort of missed, or do you think they didn't do a good job of laying the hints up for you and you just didn't pick them up?

9:30KT: To quote another beloved child star in Kieran Culkin, go and listen to our Succession episode if you wanna understand that Oti reference, I'm dumb, but I'm smart. Mhmm. So in that sense, to answer your question, I actually enjoy it. I don't mind feeling stupid. I don't mind feeling like an idiot as long as, like you say, I can go back and see the pieces being laid out for me. Mhmm. Don't withdraw the story from me and be like, I turned all over your eyes.

10:02Oti: Yeah. Like like Book of Eli, just put that in there. Oh my god. You've held it over my head for so long that I felt so good that you missed this, and I was just waiting for it to when I saw a hint or I saw them insinuating to the fact that Crowe was already dead. Spoiler. Spoiler. Spoiler.

10:25KT: Oh, I like yours. You're welcome. But you say it after after you've already shot it.

10:31Oti: Well, yeah. Fair enough. If if you've not watched Sixth Sense, maybe you're living in around KT Suckles. Mhmm. I just found it really, really interesting that rewatching it for a second time because it's been ages Yeah. Since I first watched it. And to me, it was so obvious rewatching it. I saw, like, oh my god. How stupid could I be to miss all these signs?

10:55Oti: The fact that he didn't even talk to anyone other than the kid should have been the number one fucker out there. But that's but that's credit to good writing because Or even or even Crowe and Lynn sitting in a room are not saying a word to each other. That that was awkward. Yeah. And that sort of thing that you just sort of put at the back of your mind and don't come back to. And rewatching it, I was like, bloody hell. Bloody hell.

10:55KT: Well, we have the scene where it's their anniversary.

11:23KT: Right? And he he comes in stumbling late. And I I think I made a comment about it and you started that was your first chuckle because you were saying that I wasn't understanding that he was dead yet because ladies or whoever else that identifies, you know, sometimes when you're angry at your significant other, you will pretend that they don't exist. Right? So I was just chalking it up to that. I'm just like, you're fucking late to your anniversary, you dickhead. Dead or not. You need to be on time, sir. Oh, wow.

12:00KT: Well, we have enough theories about your existence, so let's not play on that today. I will go back quickly to Book of Eli because if you are a purveyor of our podcast, we've talked about it a lot and we need to fucking cover it already. We do. But the reason why I bring this up is, yes, I didn't see this twist coming, but I fucking, like, reveled in it. When you didn't see the twist in Book of Eli, you just got mad and said it was a bad movie.

12:31Oti: Maybe I do need to rewatch it because I had the same feeling when I watched Sixth Sense the first time because I was young, and it angered me that I'd sat through a Bruce Willis movie. And I was like, what the fuck was that? Why are they playing with my mind? And you know how we say it in the For Your Reference household.

12:51Oti: You know? Don't don't write don't write a don't write a story when you say, oh, it was all a dream at the end of it. Yeah. So it felt like a cop out at the time, which it wasn't. It was just brilliant movie making and writing.

13:04Oti: And I I I come to appreciate its significance even more now rewatching it. The old me was super dumb, so don't even pay attention to him.

13:04KT: Yes. Because we now have the upgraded learned Oti. Is that what we're saying?

13:04Oti: Yeah.

13:04KT: Okay. I think I need to call Charlie Brooker because my my prototype's a bit faulty. Oh, wow.

13:26KT: So let's let's dive into some of the characters in this film. Obviously, we're going to start off with Cole. I definitely wanna lay my accolades for Haley because I felt like he stole the scene every time he was on the screen. Brilliant performance from him through and through. And you know what I'm starting to realize? The more Bruce Willis films that I watch, he actually acts. And what I mean by that is, you know, when you watch someone and they're just there in the scene,

13:57KT: but then you have actors where you can see that they're acting? Mhmm. I don't I don't know if it's a bad thing or not, but I can I could see Bruce Willis acting in this? But in any case, even though he was acting, Haley stole the scene every single time.

14:11Oti: Oh, yeah. He really, really, really performed his ass off. You know? If if if there was, like, this is the only movie that Haley should be known for I think it is. It is, sadly. But but, wow, I was just taken aback. You know? He he he drove me he almost drove me to tears

14:33Oti: if I wasn't waiting at the back of my mind just waiting for to chuckle a bit more for you not getting it. Mhmm. It was just one of those moments where far out, I've not seen a child performance like this in ages.

14:47KT: Yeah, actually. And this was an older film as well. Because child actors can can border on annoying. Precocious is the fancier word, but sometimes kid actors can get fucking annoying. Right? Mhmm. And Cole really felt like it it's just wild because it's like getting kids to focus and to then further extend that to make us believe because I believed I believed that he felt like he saw what he saw. Yeah. Whether that was the genuine reality is a story for another day. And if we're grounding it in reality where, unfortunately,

15:27KT: these fantastical elements don't exist, come and fight me in your conspiracy corners of the Internet. But I really believe that he believed what he was seeing. Right? And it's so it's so fucking interesting because even while we were watching this, you know, and I think it was after he revealed that he could see dead people to doctor Crowe, I turned to you and I said, when are we going to see it from his perspective? You know? There there's usually a a key change or, like, a note change

16:03KT: in a film where we start to see the reality or the reality sort of dissolve. Right? And that's what I asked you. I was like, when are we gonna see what Cole's seeing? But little did KT know, we were seeing what he was seeing the whole fucking time. Yep. Because Doctor Crowe was fucking dead. Yeah. What wild. Absolutely wild. I think a lot of the the films that I enjoy are ones that tap into our core human needs

16:35KT: and our desires and our want to love and be loved and what it means to move on from this mortal coil. There's your Hamlet reference. It's been a while. And and to really to really see the connection between Cole and doctor Crowe throughout the movie, it really solidifies by the end of the film because it wasn't for Cole. Cole wasn't the one that needed the help. It was doctor Crowe all along. Yep.

17:01KT: And I loved how we saw in the later portion of the film, doctor Crowe was coming to Cole when he was playing with the soldiers. And he's like, oh, did you find what you needed? And I was like, what a fucking kid. Right? Yeah. You know when they say I see dead people? Mhmm.

17:17Oti: No movie has such a thing, such a resounding resonating moment in a film that you could point back to as the fundamental point of what the movie actually is and the hint that it's trying to tell you exactly what you're watching right before your eyes. And you and when he starts realizing Mhmm. That he's actually dead and they cut back to him being told or Cole saying, I see dead people. Yeah. It's just mind freaking blowing stuff. It's a double ended plug twist.

17:50KT: Pleasurable for everyone. Yeah. Because like you said, it was one reveal, but it was it was building to a bigger reveal. Fucking woah, man.

18:01Oti: Whirlwind aid.

18:02KT: And I think this is the first time I've I've ever experienced being lukewarm on a movie and it completely transforming into a film by the end of it.

18:15Oti: It's just your regular movie watching experience,

18:19KT: Well, it's like it's kind of why I got annoyed with Knives Out because they they were working towards that reveal, but it's like I don't fucking care at that point. I

18:28Oti: guess it's me as a person, but also at the same time, the writing is really solid on this. Yeah. I reckon execution plays a big part in it. And that's what exactly or I think that's what fundamentally failed Knives Out in my opinion. Mhmm. The execution in this is done in such a way where you not only buy into the characters Mhmm. And that the journey they try and take you through in in terms of Cole's eyes and how he re relate to the world and essentially

18:55Oti: how he needs some they both need to help each other. It's a symbiotic sort of relationship. Absolutely. So Knives Out really didn't give you that. No. And that's what that's makes it movie one of the best things I've rewatched of I've watched in such a long time. And it feels so sad that it's taken this long for me to even tell you to watch this.

18:55KT: Friends and lovers, if you were not expecting us to attack your Chris Evans

19:23KT: sweater loving murder mystery in way of this classic, well, no apologies because that was on our blacklist last year. But Cole was a very solid character. Also shout outs to Cole and specifically M. Night Shyamalan for shining a light on the lack of proper American history and the whitewashing of American history. It was more than a courthouse. It was just a courthouse. Yeah. And it's like you you don't even expect that sense of realism

20:03Oti: Yeah. And and real world shit to I say if you if you don't mention it, it didn't happen.

20:09KT: But, like, I didn't even expect that to happen in The Sixth Sense. And it's like you can you can work that into stories and it still be a great film. Mhmm. It was it was really interesting to see because also at the same time, I like stories to just focus on the characters no matter what the world is, whether it's talking to ghosts, whether it's aliens, whether it's the Baba Yaga,

20:36KT: what whatever have you, I always wanted to focus on the characters, and then we can expand out into the world. We didn't need to see a 100 different ghosts for us to understand that he could communicate with them right everything was kept kept very insular there were points before the final reveal where I was like why don't we just watch Whoopi Goldberg in Ghost instead instead? Because there's at least it's a bit more fun and there's a bit more well, there's definitely lots of Swayzes in there, which we do welcome.

21:07KT: I just wasn't sold on the movie, which is interesting because it as soon as it got to the end, now I'm all the way invested. Mhmm. Mhmm. It's it's yeah. It's funny because I I think I was

21:19Oti: I was watching it, I think the level of of details that M. Night Shyamalan goes into Yeah. Laying the foundations and all, it's so impressive

21:30Oti: that it got me to a different degree because I was watching it from a different level than you. This is your first time, and I get it. You felt as if the storyline wasn't that much laid out Mhmm. At least in terms of expanding the characters, like you just said. But once you realize I think one of the best things that could even happen after this is you rewatching it and just experiencing

21:55Oti: it in a different level. And I think that's one of the most important things about this movie. It's not the first time that you watch it and getting to the reveal. It's now the experience of you rewatching it, knowing exactly what's happening, and now getting and understanding it in a different level. That's what's important, and that's what why I think it got that much money in the box office because people are like, holy hell. What the fuck was that? Let me go and rewatch it.

22:21KT: Oh, yes. Absolutely. And rewatchability doesn't always denote to a great film, and great films don't need to be rewatchable either but there's definitely you know a great place in our hearts where we can rewatch something and have continual gradual sort of morsels that are laid out for us as well even red balloon morsels

22:47Oti: oh especially red balloons if you're Pennywise

22:51KT: maybe you're spending too much time watching Pennywise in IT or watching Chucky that you didn't watch this more

22:58Oti: No. I think I just didn't appreciate it to a level where I thought that I did. Mhmm. It's been referenced to the wazoo, which is understandable because it's a good movie. Yeah. It's a great film rather. Yeah. But I was young, so all those things, I was like, yeah. I understand the reference. I get it. Yeah. Let's move on. But rewatching it now, it's it's it's an important piece of cinema.

23:25KT: Would you prefer a movie that you were lukewarm on and then it became spectacular, or would you or would you prefer something that was spectacular and then it ended a bit lukewarm?

23:36Oti: Something that was lukewarm and then ended up spectacular, I reckon. Yeah. Right? I I will definitely always

23:44Oti: look back on it fondly.

23:44KT: And December is not far away for our reference special, my love. Oh.

23:51Oti: Something to give Succession a run for its money.

23:51KT: Oh. I

23:57KT: do love me Culkins, let's just say that. Let's move on to the next sort of main character in The Sixth Sense, Doctor Crowe.

24:07Oti: Mhmm.

24:08KT: Because you know what was really funny? Like, not not funny. Murder isn't funny. But when he got shot by Donnie Wahlberg, by the way, we saw Donnie in the credits. That was Donnie, apparently. Yeah. When he got shot and then the next scene moves on to him being alive, like, it took me one second to be like, how did he survive that? And then I just shrugged, and I was like, okay. And then I just bought it. Right? Mhmm. I didn't think anything of it because I knew we were working towards

24:36KT: the I see dead people. Right? So I was like, okay, you know, in my little world continuing on. And then as soon as you get to the end of the movie, you're like, of course, he didn't survive. Even though were they trying to do a more sort of, like, stripped back sort of shooting? Maybe I'm just used to Tarantino shooting where there's blood everywhere.

25:00Oti: I guess it was just the angle of how the bullet went through. But he didn't even bleed at the front. Happens.

25:08KT: Okay, Dexter.

25:12Oti: What did you strings in a few seconds.

25:15KT: Oh my. But

25:17KT: what did you think what did you think of doctor Crowe as a character?

25:17Oti: I I liked him. I like Bruce Willis as a as a as an actor. Mhmm. I didn't feel as if he was acting like you said because I think I've I've sort of grown up with his stuff, and I know what I'm gonna get from him.

25:17KT: I also don't like Die Hard. Exactly. That's my point. I've tried the one I've tried the first Die Hard.

25:42KT: And then for whatever reason, my family wanted to go, and we never go to the cinema. But we went to go and watch the one with Jai Courtney in it and my family don't speak anymore. There's a plethora of people who've just just clicked stop listening to the podcast at this moment.

25:58Oti: Permanent unsubscribe. Yeah.

26:01KT: We fucking love Jai Courtney. Go and listen to our Spartacus episode.

26:04Oti: Oh my god. Speaking of Jai how can you talk about Jai Courtney and Bruce Willis in the same sentence?

26:10KT: They were father and son in Die Hard.

26:16Oti: Wow. Anyway, I I knew what I was gonna get from him. I love him. I love him as he's one of the those people you grew up watching. I knew what I was gonna get from him. And seeing how he interacted he didn't seem like a douchebag. He he seemed like he loved his job and his wife, which to a level, you know, the wife thought that she always came second, and his career meant everything

26:43Oti: to him, which is understandable because, you know, he's working really passionately what he wants to love. So the fact that a failure in his job is what got him to get killed makes it even a lot more deeper, and I think I I really felt really bad for him. And you could see him struggling with that fact and him seeing aspects of Vincent in Cole and trying to help Cole through that. I thought that was a really clever way of doing it.

26:43KT: Yeah. And and there's definitely aspect of,

27:17KT: you know nourishment or you know self serving purposes when you help other people right it's not just you're helping someone you're getting something out of that too whether it's altruistic whether it's selfish whatever have you obviously in this instance it did help him move on beyond the veil so to speak and that was something that he needed to reconcile before he felt at peace so he knew that Anna would be safe But a really interesting thing that you brought up in regards to Vincent,

27:54KT: at least what was provided in the in the film, I don't think that doctor Crowe or Malcolm failed him. I just think that he it was beyond the scope of his understanding and his expertise. I don't think or at least maybe I should correct and say, I don't think it he maliciously ignored Vincent.

28:17Oti: No. I don't think it's available.

28:17KT: Whether that

28:19KT: means he got the adequate care is a different discussion. But the the guilt that he's holding in regards to not helping him, I don't think that was due. And, you know, something I was going to bring up when we're watching this is, you know, therapists should have therapists. That that's the most effective model to have. So I was wondering why he wasn't going to a therapist at all.

28:42KT: But then, again, I I just got completely sucked into the story. So those sort of periphery questions I had kind of just dissipated because I was so focused on what was happening in the story. But on a real level, I don't I genuinely don't believe that Malcolm failed Vincent maliciously.

29:01Oti: Yeah. It's never malicious, but I think one of the thing they hold dear is their ability to treat their patients and the well-being of their patients. And once that patient does die due to the fact that either a) they didn't see stuff coming in terms of how well they treated the symptoms or it was just a backslide sort of thing. Mhmm. That still comes back and haunts you because it's your pride as being a being as a psychologist.

29:32Oti: Once you have a success story, you want it to remain like that. And we saw it in just a series that we watched recently in another city of terror Mhmm. Where the psychologist lost, you know, the Kaithman incident. Now it happens all the time, and it's one of the things that will hurt you. Regardless of whether or not you think or you think it's your fault or not, it will still hurt to a degree.

29:54KT: Yeah. Absolutely. But that that's just more of an observation. Yeah. Yeah. How did you feel in the last scene where we have Malcolm watching his wife, watching, you know, their wedding tapes, and she's she's murmuring in her sleep? Again, that can seem very innocent. Like, he is physically there, and she's just murmuring. But, obviously, we come to find out that he isn't physically there and she can't communicate with him. How how did you feel in that moment?

30:29Oti: Yeah. That was really heartbreaking to have your to have that sort of moment and reveal where you've been trying to be a better man. You've been trying to be a better husband. You've realized that, you know, you've dealt with your emotional baggage and not rescuing Vincent and you come back hoping that you can now start building your life with your partner. And then you see it flash in front of your eyes that, you know, you can't get that chance anymore and you're dead. And I'm surprised it took him such a little time to reconcile

31:02Oti: all of that and to be peaceful with it all and that is exactly

31:09KT: the penny drop, the wedding ring drop, the pin drop, all of that. Because as soon as she was muttering, why did you leave me? And he's like, what are you talking about? And his ring falls from her hand and we start hearing the voice over of Cole talking about he sees dead people, that dead people see whatever they wanna see. I had to get you to fucking pause this movie because it was bananas.

31:37Oti: Mhmm.

31:38KT: I was going rabid. I was feeling very wild because like we said, I already thought I had twisted all of the Krieger nipples that I could twist and that completely blew me wide all the way open sir yeah so there's there's so much delicious you know back and forth that we see with Malcolm and Cole and I cannot wait in the near future to rewatch specifically their scenes together and see it because Cole knew all along. He

32:14KT: was like well, no one fucking cares about Game of Thrones. He was like Bran. Right? But he wasn't a dick about it. He was actually helpful in Malcolm's journey, you know, to crossover. Speaking of people that Cole was very helpful to, let's talk about the immaculate Toni Collette, Lynn.

32:36Oti: Oh, yeah. She was you could tell how much she really cared about Cole. Mhmm. That relationship, she you know, her mother died, and she had issues with that or at least unsolved issues with that. Mhmm. And the fact that she went above and beyond, she was working two jobs. Yep. And she just couldn't understand why the she couldn't communicate with the son, with Cole, and what was happening. It was all out of her reach. She felt overwhelmed, and it's understandable. It's understandable. And even when Cole was like, do you think I'm a freak?

33:16Oti: And then she comes back and say, look at me. Look at my face. I would never say anything like that or think anything like that. Yeah. You know? So there's a really strong bond and she's just a great mother and we know we love her Toni Collette. We fucking love Toni Collette.

33:34KT: I think she was great. Like I said, I didn't really get to sink into her character as much as I wanted to. I I guess maybe she didn't have any sort of support network. You could see she was really doing a lot. Like you said, she was working two jobs. She was really she was really trying her best, and she wasn't blaming any of it on Cole at all. She tried to give as much as she could in regards to love and forgiveness. And one of one of the most interesting scenes

34:09KT: in the film is where she's picking up the laundry and she starts looking at the photos, the frame photos that they have on the wall. And we start to see little, like, flickers in the photographs every time Cole is looking off into the distance in photographs, for example. And I just wanna talk a little bit about that because in in my brown Polynesian household, my mom and my aunties thought that it was like the devil. So any no. I'm serious. Like, literally. Like so any sort of photos that would have that sort of,

34:48KT: you know Distortion. Effect, yeah, to it, they would they would just get destroyed, and we would never get to have those photos.

34:56Oti: Wow. Wow. That is something.

34:59KT: That's not a you thing as well?

35:02Oti: No. No. I don't I don't remember looking at pictures looking for ghosts or anything.

35:07KT: Neither. Just have that weird sort of defect on it.

35:11Oti: No. I think I just knew that cameras are shit.

35:16KT: You're just lucky to have a photo.

35:18Oti: Just lucky enough. I've got a perfect clarity to get a photo of me.

35:24KT: And that is some real shit. Thank you, Cole.

35:24Oti: You're welcome.

35:29Oti: Yeah. That is weird. That is really interesting that that's a thing. Mhmm.

35:34KT: Especially in your culture. Yes. Specifically in my cult I think a lot of cultures have, like, ghosts and, you know, what to do, what not to do, superstitious sort of shit. Right? Anyway, I just wanted to share that little sort of tidbit there. I wanna go to the kid's birthday party where Lynn also was and the kids being dicks just pretty much kids being kids they throw Cole into this little space dungeon they called it Yeah. They throw him into a dungeon,

36:11KT: and they lock him in there. And then we have Lynn running up the stairs to go and save him. She's always going above and beyond trying to protect her kid. Yeah.

36:22Oti: And the and the weirdest parents just sitting, look, staring at her as if she's bananas or anything when they couldn't even help open the bloody door. Yeah. That pissed me off. And that that's one of the things like, if you know you have fucking misbehaving kids, you need to pull them in line. Oh, absolutely. But yeah. So she struggles to get Cole out. And once you hear the latch release I think it was one of the ghosts that I think probably locked the latch from the inside. Yeah. So

36:52Oti: it was it was one of those moments where you feel sorry for her because you see that she has she's dealing with too much that she can handle. Yeah. Absolutely. And she doesn't really understand what's going on. And then when she takes takes Cole to the hospital, M. Night is there as the doctor Yeah. And Cole has scratches, then they think that possibly it has to do with Lynn abusing her. That's so sad. Yeah.

36:52KT: Also,

37:20KT: actually, when she notices the scratches on Cole's back, she's on the phone. I assumed she was talking to Malcolm, but obviously she wasn't because no one was communicating to Malcolm except for Cole. So who was she calling? The parents of the kids.

37:35Oti: Oh, yeah. You're right, actually. She said your kids are bloody hurting my if if they ever touch my kid again,

37:42KT: you know, so she's sounding out a warning. So she said fuck you and the kids you claim? Yep. Let's talk a little bit more about Malcolm's wife, Anna.

37:56Oti: Oh, Anna Anna Anna. Well, we don't really get to see too much of her. Yeah. There's not a lot of dimension to her either. Yeah. But we see enough to know that she really did love Malcolm to a different level. Mhmm. She was always there. She's rewatching the wedding videos. You could tell that she's struggling to move on. Yes.

38:21KT: But we took that as her being reluctant for a tryst. Yeah. For making Malcolm a cuckold.

38:28Oti: Yeah. And once she starts opening up to this other guy, then Malcolm is there wondering what the fuck is going on. Yeah. You know? In in a sort of logical way, you'd wonder what the fuck, you know? Just do something.

38:43KT: If you Especially when we saw that guy leaving the house and going into his car. Right? And leaving their house. Right? And I was like, why is this bitch continuing to watch her wedding tapes when she's got a man over? Right? And I guess that's also one of those conflicts where I'm like, oh, actually, that's another sign that he's not alive. Because earlier, we have a scene with Anna and that same guy in the shop, and they're starting to kiss. Right? And

39:19KT: then we see or hear a disturbance near the door and it was actually Malcolm. Yeah. Again, that could have just been a normal circumstance, but we start to realize that that's him as a ghost. Right? Still trying to communicate. Yeah.

39:34Oti: Yeah. It's him as a ghost. And one of the things that I think really make us get this sort of endearing feeling when it comes to Malcolm's wife is the fact that she's she's still holding on to the relationship in some regard. She's there at the restaurant for an anniversary. She's looking sad, forlorn, and it's you just can't help but feel sorry. Yeah. And especially knowing that Malcolm was dead and you're watching this, it makes your heart break a little for her. Yeah. Absolutely.

40:11Oti: We don't get too much of her in terms of storyline or story wise as a character, but you do get a sense of who she is as a person.

40:19KT: She's a little bit more than a prop, but she's definitely less than a character. A bit of a Kumiko san Yeah. From Archer. But, yeah, it it was definitely interesting to see, you know, Malcolm slowly, you know, see Anna move on even though he wasn't realizing that he was the one that was also supposed to be moving on as well because what was it? It was like a year later. Right? And actually coming back to the start of the movie,

40:53KT: he's sitting on that bench and he's sitting there and he's making his notes. There's so much you can just think about and you're like, oh my god. A lot of this just makes complete sense.

41:02Oti: Yeah. For sure. And one of the things that I don't really understand is or at least I I still don't get is he's still bleeding. Or at least his wound is still there at the back. Yeah. Does he not leave marks or anything? If he sits down on a bench, when he gets up, does he not leave a blood stain on it?

41:22KT: Are you really gonna poke holes?

41:22Oti: I'm

41:25Oti: not poking holes. I'm just asking because I'm curious. He he reached out when he realized that he was dead, he reached out of his back,

41:32Oti: and there was, like, blood all over.

41:32KT: Well, whether whether you wanna call this, you know, the riding savior, He you know, Cole's character did say they see what they wanna see. Yeah. So I guess it didn't manifest itself until after. Unless you're Michael Keaton in 30 Rock when it was his last day before retirement and he got shot just panning down. If it if there's no 30 Rock references, it's not a great episode, friends and lovers. But it was definitely interesting to see.

42:07KT: It's it's fucking wild. I I cannot wait till we eventually watch this movie again, and I can be you know, that that meme with Leonardo DiCaprio in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood where he's pointing at the screen? That's gonna be me the whole time watching Sixth Sense again. We're like, oh, there you go. There's the there's the, you know, little breadcrumbs that we had along the way. It it it's it's absolutely wild. Yeah. Speaking of wild, we do have a subplot that gets introduced

42:36KT: later on into the film with Mischa Barton Mhmm. As Kyra Collins. Yep. Because as far as we could see, aside from Malcolm, obviously, Cole isn't really going out of his adventures to save the people that are in purgatory. Mhmm. Right? But he does for Kyra's character.

42:59Oti: Yeah. And that's to do with Malcolm telling him that he has to help or at least listen to them. Mhmm. And once he Because at at this point, he still feels like he's the one in control. Yes. Yeah. So just listen and see what they want, and that happens to be Mischa Barton's character, Kyra. Mhmm. And to go to Kyra's house where she had evidence of the stepmom poisoning her Yeah. Slowly each day,

43:26Oti: you know, and and then saying that, oh, she's laying in bed and eating, and the kid and Kyra wanted to go out and play and say, oh, you know you can't. You usually feel really bad. You really get them well during the afternoon. Yeah, bummed. I keep on poisoning her.

43:26KT: Did she just call the stepmom a bumder?

43:26Oti: Yeah. She is a bloody bumder.

43:46KT: Stop telling us your web search history, Oti. Stepmom bumders. And then she also made a comment saying, don't say it tastes funny because it's gonna hurt my feelings. She was not she didn't even care to do it that well, did she? She did not. She did not. Like, not to blame the father, but if he had taken two seconds to talk to Kyra, I'm pretty sure they could have, you know, cracked that nut.

44:13Oti: Yeah. Yep. And and it's one of those sad things because we know this happens a lot. Absolutely. Step mom step moms can just be really cruel things out there. Yeah. Evil step moms.

44:13KT: That's another porn search we don't need to talk about, Oti.

44:28KT: Yeah. Oh, even even real moms, Patricia Arquette acting in The Act with Joey King. Oh. That's a fucking wild series as well. But it was definitely interesting, and it's it's nice to see that Cole and Malcolm could intercept before the younger daughter. Because at the funeral, there were whispers saying that the younger daughter is starting to get sick now. True.

44:54Oti: Yeah. She she she had to go. And I'm glad that it was it was one of those sort of subplots that made you feel warm inside.

45:03KT: Isn't there a Korean horror film about two sisters and a stepmom that is

45:09KT: lack of luster?

45:09Oti: Yeah. I think it's called Two Sisters.

45:13KT: Really?

45:15Oti: Oh, A Tale of Two Sisters, but, yeah, you catch my drift.

45:18KT: I do, and I catch the reference, and it is most delightful. Mhmm. My love. I really appreciated like like I said, with this film, they didn't completely pack it with so many ghost stories. They really chose their moments. Yeah. It was Malcolm. It was Kyra as as, you know, the the the meat of the sandwich. And then we had we also had a really nice reveal with Lynn's mom as well with the brooch that kept getting stolen as well. Yeah.

45:49Oti: Yeah. We did. And I think one of the the dead giveaways in this was it's a movie about a kid who sees dead people and you don't see a lot of ghosts. Yeah. Lending itself to the fact that the ghost is in front of you, in front of your fucking eyes the whole time. Right?

46:08KT: And I'm I am not mad at it at all. But but but to go back to Lynn on a real level, Cole was able to bring change and bring healing to his mom specifically Because the grandma was really OG love. Right? So she had let Lynn think for decades that she never went to go and watch her dance when she did. I don't fucking get that. That is another generation

46:41Oti: of repression of love. What do you mean? Don't show them you love them. That's a sign of weakness. Right.

46:48KT: I think a lot of us are in the age bracket where our parents or our our dad specifically never said I love you. Oh, what what is that? Yeah. What is that? What are the clothes on your back? What is the food you're eating? That is love enough. As you can see, it it has not affected us one iota. Oh, no. Absolutely. That is why we are creating a podcast. Oh, yeah. We are fully adjusted thespians. Okay. Before we finish up, I do have a couple of notes that I wanna talk about.

47:25KT: This isn't really a question. We don't have to have a discussion, but I want to immortalize it on our Sixth Sense episode. Don't let Bruce Willis tell you a bedtime story. That's literally it.

47:38Oti: We were driving, and then we drove a bit more. We turned the corner and continued driving.

47:46KT: When we talk about a wild ride, that is not what we are talking about. Yeah. So we don't have to have a conversation. I just wanna make sure it's on our episode. The last thing I wanna talk about, how deep you wanna take it or on surface level you wanna take it. Cole is a child and, you know, a lot of the time when we have main or protagonists that are children, we do try and give graces wherever we can. Chihiro from Spirited Away, for example.

48:20KT: So, you know, Cole is a kid, and he's actually been through more than what the average kid would experience or would ever experience, you know, through through the ghosts. And you could see that he was getting physically hurt from the ghosts he saw the people hanging in school so I I understand that that's something difficult for a child to face however he was a bit dickish to the teacher that started the stuttering Stanley.

48:52Oti: The stuttering Stanley. Yeah. That was that was not nice. But I think it's just one of those things that I think she he's been through so much. He felt threatened. Yeah. Yeah. That it starts showing out in in on sort of unwarranted ways, and that's understandable to me at least.

49:12KT: Do you think the teacher made that face, or do you think that was in his head? Because that that was the that was the reason why he felt backed into a corner because people were staring at him the way that he doesn't like people staring at him like he's crazy. I think August told him that he makes that face. He looks at you like that. Yeah. Because he got that information stuttering Stanley from someone. Do you also think actually, while we're talking, do you think that's an Office reference?

49:39Oti: Did I stutter?

49:43KT: We also have an episode on The Office as well.

49:43Oti: Oh, that's one of the best Office moments I've ever seen. Like And, like, Stanley playing basketball.

49:54Oti: Yeah. Yeah. Throw your stereotypes out the window.

49:58KT: Well, before this turns into Office special, let's finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference, Oti.

50:06Oti: As call so dead people Mhmm. I would like to reference United States of Tara because we love Toni Collette,

50:15Oti: and she seals herself as multiple people.

50:15KT: She does. Mhmm. Thank you, Oti.

50:15Oti: You're welcome.

50:15KT: We recently finished the series. So if you want us to expedite an episode on that, feel free to reach out. I did not know you were invited to the Toni Collette Love Fest Oti. Oh, I am. Because I am also referencing Toni Collette. Come and fucking fight us or fight yourself because that is some self hatred we do not condone in the For Your Reference household. But I will be referencing Hereditary. Nice. Because Toni Collette deserves all the awards, especially

50:55KT: an Oscar for Hereditary, even though she never got nominated, you motherfuckers. It'll come. It'll come. You know where else you can fuck your mothers? On Twitter and Instagram. @ForYourRefPod.

51:09Oti: You can write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

51:12KT: And if you listen on Apple, we would much appreciate your ratings. Not on fucking your mother's, but on our podcast. And we'll see you guys next week.

51:22Oti: See you. Bye.