IT – Floating on dat fine Derry air

Full transcript of IT – Floating on dat fine Derry air.

0:00KT: Good day. Welcome back to For Your Reference. We're starting off with Your Phrase or Mine, and Oti is the mayor of the town.

0:00Oti: Yes. I am. So today I picked a quote from It Chapter Two. Mhmm. And you have to tell me who says this and in what context. Okay. So here it goes. Sometimes we are what we wish we could forget.

0:24KT: I would say it's fat Ben. Sorry.

0:30Oti: Sorry. Young fat Ben. Not me. It's Mike Hanlon.

0:36KT: Okay. Pop quiz. Let's turn it around and go for broke. Do you know who Mike is in the film?

0:42Oti: Yeah. The black dude.

0:44KT: I well, the Old Spice man. Right? Isaiah something. I'm sorry, sir. We need to accept her as your final answer. Let's get on to the show. Hey, friends and lovers. Welcome back to For Your Reference. You got your host, KT.

0:44Oti: And Oti.

0:44KT: And we hope you've packed a clean pair of underwear. Oh, I saw. Because we are floating back to the town of Derry to face our fears Mhmm. In the shape of Pennywise. Strap in, guys. Strap on if you're feeling nasty because we are going to get into some wild stuff.

1:43KT: Yep. This is based on the book of the same name by Stephen King who makes a very cute little cameo in the film, which we'll be talking about a little bit later on. Obviously, you've got the Tim Curry miniseries. We won't be covering that today, maybe sometime in the future. We will be focusing on the twenty seventeen, twenty nineteen series, shall we call it, of It and It Chapter Two directed by Andy Muschietti. Oti is 000.05% Argentinian. So would you like to re pronounce that for me?

2:20Oti: Sad. No. I'm not trying that. No?

2:22KT: Not feeling spicy enough? Not today. Not today. But, yes, Andy directed both films, and then you've got Gary who adapted it to screenplay. In IMDb, I will just go off the first few actors that we have that are top billed. We got Jessica Chastain, James McAvoy, Bill Hader, Isaiah Mustafa, the man your man will never be able to smell or be like in any iota.

2:50Oti: Mhmm.

2:51KT: We've also got Jay Ryan, who's a fellow Kiwi. We've been all about the Kiwis lately.

2:56Oti: Yeah. He does look a bit ethnic. I was like, how fucking kid did not turn into that? He's got more than salt and pepper going on. Yeah. Yeah. He's definitely got some extra spices

3:09KT: and herbs, if you will. But, yeah, I I didn't realize it in the film because check out our The Boys episode. Antony Starr is also a fellow Kiwi, but I didn't realize that because his American accent was so good. Same thing with Jay Ryan. I did not realize he was Kiwi. Karl Urban, I fucking love you, mate, but your Kiwi was creeping out in every orifice in The Boys. Okay. So let's talk about stats, which is what we usually do. This came out literally less than a week ago.

3:42KT: I think it actually came out in Australia. Australia tends to come out a bit before America because we operate in the future, guys, and it's some enigmatic sort of thing just as much as Pennywise. In my extensive research, IMDb for example, it didn't have the budget there, at least not in an easy sort of place. Box Office Mojo, I also couldn't find it. So I had to crawl all the way to Wikipedia. So it gave me a range of 60 to 79,000,000 for the budget.

4:15Oti: What do you reckon that is? Like, they didn't release it out publicly so that if it did if it tanked, people wouldn't know.

4:24KT: Well, from memory, Titanic was 90,000,000.

4:27Oti: Yeah. It doesn't seem like much, but then again. Well, there there were some problematic

4:34KT: issues with the de aging and the pitch of the kids and maybe that's where the money was being compromised. So let's let's leave that tasty morsel for later on in the episode. So it's been out for less than a week. In The US, it has grossed so far 91,000,000. Okay. That's not bad. Yeah. That's that's a pretty penny wise. And worldwide, it has grossed a $185,000,000.

5:04Oti: I don't think you'll go above that too much though. Like, opening weekend you've expect some hype around it which there hasn't been that much and I feel like it'll just tail off into

5:16KT: I think you're right. Security. I think you're right because even with the first It there was quite a lot of promotion around And I believe it was in Germany, they were tying, like, red balloons to sewer grates and everyone in the town, including the police, were fucking freaked out and they didn't know what to do. And then Burger King was getting angry because McDonald's was starting to get possibly free publicity because he kinda looks like Ronald McDonald as well.

5:16Oti: Pennywise?

5:48KT: Yeah. And then they ended up buying an ad at the end of the movie saying you can't trust clowns or some shit. I don't know. I don't know. But speaking of the intricacies of the film, Bill Skarsgård, who if if we're not cautious, I will talk about for the whole hour. Bill Skarsgård plays Pennywise, and we will talk about how we feel, but you can probably tell how I feel about Bill Skarsgård as Pennywise. But he got so entrenched as Pennywise, he actually started to tap into his Swedish roots.

6:25Oti: What do you mean by that?

6:25KT: So as he was playing Pennywise and being all grotesque and, you know, distorting his whole body, he would actually start to speak Swedish. And I'm not sure if you know since we've revealed that you're a minute percent of Argentinian, I am also a minute percent of Swedish and Pennywise actually means spoilers.

6:48Oti: But would that be scary? Imagine seeing you clout and they're like, undisch? No. That's a bit more German. Sorry. Yeah. Swedish. It's tough with the defense because can't remember shit about it but there you go.

6:48KT: Yep. We've we've lost any sort of

7:05KT: Scandinavian, European listeners, but we would love to have you back. But, yes, if if you've listened to For Your Reference before, welcome back. You know what you're getting into, so don't send any complaints to us. If it's your first time listening to For Your Reference, you are most welcome. And that is our cheesy attempt to tell you that there will be spoilers throughout.

7:30Oti: Yeah. Uh-huh. Yep.

7:32KT: But again, we will just be focusing on 2017, 2019, It and It Chapter Two. I think for the most part, we will be talking mostly on Chapter Two because we recently watched it, but you know, it all kind of interweaves together. So let's get into first impressions. So just in general, you know, did Stephen King even hit Kenyan shores? Did you know much about it? Did you watch it growing up? And what were your was there any sort of anticipation for these films?

8:06Oti: Yes. So Yes to all. Yes to all. Done. Shutdown podcast. No. But King is well known everywhere. It will be quite difficult to try and avoid his genre in in horror at all.

8:06KT: Yes. I love that you call him a genre. Yes, queen?

8:06Oti: Mate. Yeah. The thing is, I watched the miniseries back in the day, and I don't know. There's something about clowns that just doesn't freak me out. Give me a guy in a hockey mask, and I'm like, mate, something's wrong.

8:42KT: Okay. So I was going to try to relate to you because I don't think clowns were such a big thing in Kenya. But then what kind of guy is walking around in a hockey mask in Kenya? It's more relatable, man.

9:00KT: I thought I thought you were going to drop some real truth nuggets, like,

9:05KT: you know, like, the real struggles of growing up in Kenya. But, no, you're just talking about

9:10KT: this this girl with weird face painting.

9:10Oti: No. This is not happening here. But give me a guy in a hockey mask or something that I can be like, you probably made that on himself. I'm like, yeah. This is too creepy for me.

9:23KT: And I don't I don't think even though we've dipped a few of our toes, if you're nasty, into the horror ish sort of world, we haven't really covered any traditional not just slasher. We haven't really covered any traditional horror sort of films. It's mostly been, like, psychological thrillers, like Upgrade. Please check it out. Also, Get Out. I guess you could call Us a horror movie, but it yeah. It might not be a movie. It might not be a movie, but it's a horror. But yeah.

9:57KT: That's like a twenty second sound bite of how we feel. But we do give some poignant, you know, analysis in regards to that. So feel free to listen to our Us episode, also Get Out and also Upgrade. But I think this is the first traditional sort of horror that we're covering on this podcast.

10:12Oti: You say that, then I don't really agree with that assessment.

10:19KT: You know Does that mean everything just goes away because a man disagrees with me? Of course. Do you wanna go, mate? Mate.

10:28Oti: I put my foot down. Well, watching It Chapter Two, I think they focus so much on some of the generic horror tropes, and it just didn't work. It didn't click. It's not your sort of skeleton key kinda indie horror movie. It just felt as if it's more geared towards teenagers for me at least. And I was like, who are you trying to attract with this? Because halfway through the movie and I'd pretty much just watched it all. Like I was this didn't need to be three hours.

11:06KT: And that that but that's an interesting thing. I know it's definitely something worth mentioning because of course it doesn't feel like anything new because you have seen it before. But, you know, we we don't really do traditional reviews in that sense but, you know, how how much can we rely on the fact that it's been remade on how we feel about it. You know what I mean? In my pseudo let's get deep

11:39KT: sort of conversation because okay. We get it. We we get that it's it's a remake and there are some things that you're going to have to digest that you've already digested. Right? But then that can't be the crux of why you didn't like it because you had a choice and you did watch it. So there there needs to be some ownership that you have as a viewer to, okay, acknowledge that, but not let it embody the foundational opinion that you have. And an example of that is Lion King. Right? I actually didn't mind it.

12:15KT: But I know, like, 80% of what people are saying about The Lion King is just the fact that people remade it for no reason. And, you know, we can also say that about it, but then it's like, what kind of conversation are you gonna have if you just literally focus on the fact that it's being redone again? But not only that, if it's it's bloated as well. Like, they took what? In the first one, where was it? The first mini series covered around three hours twelve minutes. And that's pretty much what this runtime was for the second movie.

12:41Oti: Yeah so it's over an hour it's running over an hour. There's a lot of unnecessary scenes in this and midway through you're like do we really need to watch this what the fuck is this? It's like pointless conversations. It really was hard to get into it and to see exactly why this was so long

13:03Oti: because we knew of the runtime before we even went in. So I was

13:03KT: Well, you didn't. I told you while we were on the way to the cinema because apparently you didn't know.

13:03Oti: You, mate. You made me you made me sit through Endgame. So that's your own

13:03KT: Oh, you can't even night and day, mate. Night and day. You cannot compare the two. One franchise has set up this for 20 odd movies.

13:03Oti: This guy's

13:26Oti: you need to earn your three hours. If you want to make someone sit in a cinema for three hours, you need to earn it. Sorry.

13:34KT: But I think what we're starting to learn in this day and age is you actually don't have to earn it. You know, these these production companies, these these movie companies, and I'm not a cinephile, so I'm pretty sure movie companies isn't a word. Come and fight me. But it just shows that it doesn't matter whether you want it or not. These movies are going to get made. Right? So you can keep you can keep harping on that point, but it's like no one forced you aside from the fact that we wanna be relevant.

14:05KT: No. I didn't I didn't force us to watch It Chapter Two. But aside from the fact that we do have a podcast and we do wanna try and be relevant and we already vetoed Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, which for more, please contact us. But we, you know, we we try to strike a balance between

14:26KT: what's popular so people can come and listen, but we also want to make it enjoyable for us. So we do cover, you know, foreign movies, foreign TV shows, shows and things that just we wanna cover but we try to strike a balance. Right? So but in any case, didn't have to watch It Chapter Two. No, we didn't. So now that we've watched it, let's air all of your stanky qualms and let's move on because this is going to turn into the

14:57KT: most monotonous or the shortest podcast episode if you keep drumming on the fact that it's a remake, we get it. Like, everything's a remake.

15:04Oti: I gave up so much more than that. Like, it's it's not just a remake. It it they added unnecessary content on there that didn't help the plot and did nothing for character development either. It felt really one dimensional and in some aspects you just felt as if you're rewatching the kids

15:26Oti: who magically turned into adults. Like twenty seven years did nothing for them. There's at the start of the movie, we're shown that they've all moved along apart from, of course, our black guy Mike. Who decides to stay in

15:26KT: Mike is his name.

15:26Oti: Yes. Mike, who decides to stay in Derry for whatever fucking reason, and everyone else moves on, has their lives,

15:54Oti: and then done. And then once they come back to Derry, they're pretty much the older versions of whoever they were twenty seven years ago. I am not the same person I was 27 ago. And thank god for that. It's ridiculous. No one is. So the fact that they wanted to copy paste characteristics across more than two decades, it's insane.

16:22KT: You know who you sound like right now?

16:22Oti: What?

16:22KT: Me. Me. Me.

16:27Oti: Trudy Bigman. Exactly.

16:30KT: That's an Arthur reference, guys. No. You tell me. You tell me. In your circles In in my shapely circles. Yes. Yeah.

16:40Oti: Growing up, what did you think of It and King or were you even aware of horror as a genre and were you able to partake in its joyousness?

16:51KT: Oh, nice. Well, thank you. Let me lay down on this couch and let's unpack that, shall we? Clowns weren't necessarily scary to me. I guess the scariest thing about clowns is why is a grown man hanging around these little kids? That's more what's scary about clowns. But as a brown girl, I was very sheltered, so I was not allowed to watch any sort of horror movies. Right? And then once I got old enough to watch it on my own volition,

17:29KT: it wasn't scary anymore. Right? Even watching Chucky, it's like, dude, you're a doll. Like, what?

17:29Oti: Oh, Chucky is creepier than Pennywise.

17:29KT: But, know I get what you mean, though. Like, I think I think what it needs to get to is it needs to tug at your your childhood imagination and how dark it can get sometimes. Yeah. For sure. You know what I mean? And I think because I missed that step, it's it's just a bit missed on me. Even watching It and It Chapter Two, I appreciated,

18:03KT: you know, as you mentioned, the tropes that they had, the traditional sort of horror tropes and, you know, even the homages that it was paying to Tim Curry's version. Mhmm. Right? I appreciated that, but it didn't actually scare me. I was just like, oh ho, tally ho, good lad. Like, wasn't necessarily frightened by it. And it it might just be a matter of do you think it was a matter of age or is it a matter of time? Because I think more and more in this technological age and, you know, the overconsumption

18:37KT: of, you know, of media and of horrific sort of things. You know, there's so many like CSI, Criminal Minds, Law and Order: SVU, Mariska Hargitay, yes, please. I'll take another slice. Thank you. You know, we're becoming overly exposed to, you know, the gruesome facts of life. Oh, yeah. So it kind of makes, you know, horror movies it it makes it a harder job essentially for the traditional sort of horror movies to really shake you to your core. Because

19:11KT: day in, out, you're just seeing that all over the news or you're seeing it as a part of entertainment. True crime is on the rise and continues to become very, very popular. Right? But, you know, as an adult in a office drone life, you know what really scares me? What really drops my balls? What's that? Watching The Office, Office Space, Utopia, any sort of situational office sort of scenarios where they talk about deadlines

19:45KT: or, you know, is someone asking you to join bootcamp and go exercising with them. Man, I work with some really beautiful skinny people, and I have to hide my fat ass snacks. And that is the horror movie right there, my friend. That is the real horror. But just to go just to go back to the horror sort of genre, I love it and I'm satiated. And, you know, if you follow us on Twitter, the For Your Reference household always has Friday horror movie nights. Yep.

20:18KT: We always have Friday horror movie nights, but, you know, in in our say satiation, which since our couple of episodes ago, I found out is an actual word. Mhmm. Satiation. Not the way I'm pronouncing it. You're too kind. You just let me struggle. But, yeah, we actually kind of stumbled more into, like, independent sort of horror movies as opposed to, like, the traditional big Yep. Sort of horror films. Right? Yep. So I I I love a thrill. I love a thrill. But it this just wasn't it, if you'll pardon the terrible pun reference.

21:00KT: But there you go. The first It actually is the highest grossing horror film of all time. Get Out Mhmm. Was actually one of the highest grossing, but it's in the category of, like, original horror. So shout out to Jordan Peele for not shout out for us, but that's a story for another day.

21:19Oti: Well, now that you're saying that it was the highest grossing, I'm like, does it really deserve that? Like, sitting there as a horror fanatic, and I'm like, fucking hell. It pisses me off because it's all about the hype. And the end of it, it wasn't really that great of a movie in the first place. Neither is Avengers Endgame. See, there's a horror because everyone's gotta be record this podcast on your own.

21:49KT: See? Everyone is going to fight me, and that's the biggest horror. But so just a fun little tidbit, Oti actually vetoed Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, and I vetoed Endgame. Because as much as we say this is a hobby, we also want listeners. So let's just leave it there. But in regards to the film, again, if you have listened to any of our podcast episodes, I always wholeheartedly, warmheartedly, always recant that, you know, we're not family friendly, but we do love our daddies. In regards to It and It Chapter Two,

22:32KT: we do not love our daddies, and we wish our daddies weren't around because fucking hell. And I say I said I've said this a few times on our podcast as well. No one can fuck you up more than your parents.

22:46Oti: Oh, that's so true. Fuck Pennywise.

22:49KT: What Bev had to go through? That's the horror right there. What Eddie had to go through? Jesus Christ, man. There's your real horror.

22:59Oti: Oh. And the fact that they ended up twenty seven years later, they ended up with their with their parents in a relationship. Like, people

22:59KT: Let let let let's get to that.

23:11KT: But, man, if have have you ever tried, like, sneaking some food before it was dinner time and the wrath that your parents would lay upon your ass? That is a horror right there, my friends. That is a horror right there. But let's let's let's just get into some more discussion in regards to the film. Do you wanna talk about the kids or do you wanna start on Bill Skarsgård?

23:36Oti: The kids.

23:39KT: The kids. Okay. So we have Georgie Porgie or at least that's what Pennywise calls him in the gutter. First of all, what kind of parents would allow a child in heavy rain to go and play with his little paper boat?

23:39Oti: I'll say the same thing. Yeah.

23:58Oti: Ridiculous. I was not allowed out when it rained. No kid was allowed out when it rained. Yeah. Well, you know, all again so even if there's I can't even resonate with it because to me, it's impossible, a scenario, to let a kid go out in the rain alone to play no.

24:22KT: And, actually, when the paper boat was going down the drain, Georgie was actually trying to grab it, and there was an old lady on her porch. She saw Georgie, and she just left him there.

24:33Oti: Oh, kids are just playing by the gutter and the rain. Oh. What the fuck kind of town was this in? It's just another ordinary day.

24:42KT: Unless she was Pennywise as well. Right? Who knows? And then we come across Bill. I think Bill had a stutter already. It wasn't because of the trauma of losing Georgie. Right?

24:42Oti: No. He he yep. He just started from the get go.

24:42KT: Yeah. So he in in some cases and we haven't read the book. He's arguably the protagonist at least in the first film. Interestingly enough, I haven't read the book, but I've read people talk about the book. And apparently, the way it is actually set up is it has both of the stories happening concurrently.

25:19KT: So it flashes back and forth between the kids and the adults.

25:19Oti: Oh, it's not separated.

25:19KT: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it all culminates in a crescendo at the end.

25:19Oti: Oh. That would I think that would be way more cohesive, though.

25:33Oti: Because But then it'll be it'll you remember the show called FlashForward?

25:38KT: With our man Taye Diggs?

25:40Oti: No. No. That didn't have Taye Diggs. Oh, well, I don't acknowledge it in my household then. It was an annoying set of scenarios. Like, flash-forwards can be used for great good, but then most of the time, it's purely executed. It just annoys the hell out of you. And if Stephen King wrote it in the book, and I'm pretty sure in all the iterations that were made for TV and movie, Nana's taken such an adaptation tells you a reason why because it's just so hard to do tastefully.

26:18KT: But I think it would have made more sense because even in Tim Curry's version, as well as this current iteration, I felt like there was something missing. And if it were to be told in that, you know, concurrent sort of nature, it might have been more cohesive. And and and and and in my learned research which goes beyond IMDb so you know I was making an effort. The opening scene in Chapter Two Mhmm. Where they have the gay couple. Yep. That was actually based on an unfortunate death a couple of years before

26:57KT: Stephen King actually wrote this book.

26:57Oti: Oh, really?

26:57KT: Yeah. So so there was a couple and there was a guy that unfortunately died because of his sexual orientation. Right? And that actually is interwoven in the sense that you have, you know, struggles early in the film as well with the kids. Right? And it actually weaves it quite nicely together in the tapestry of It as a novel. When they isolate that in Chapter Two and, you know, feel free to tweet us or to send us an email. I feel like it just

27:42KT: it felt out of nowhere, first of all, it was taken out of context and it was just added into the first part of the second film. Mhmm. But feel free to correct me, Oti and also listeners. I don't feel like they addressed it for the rest of the film.

27:56Oti: No. They didn't. Right? Yeah. It just felt really random, brutal, and you're like, what's the point of this? Yeah.

28:06KT: Like, I guess the only point I gathered from there is this is a small town and even in modern times, they're still not accepting of all people. That's all that's all I got from that. But it's it's literally like and that's that's one of the foundational qualms that I have with It Chapter Two in particular because the dark moments felt excessively violent unnecessarily morbid But then they would they would have really light moments.

28:40KT: So even in the same breath, they're expecting us to be shocked and laugh at the same time. Yeah. It was literally like splicing together two movies. I was watching an interview with Andy who's the director of both films and they were asking him, you know, does he have any future plans for It and the universe? Because every love everyone loves using the word universe and strap in because Andy said that he would love to do a super cut. Five hours long, my friend.

29:10Oti: Right? Sign me up, mate. But I guess the gay connotation at the start could be kind of related to Richie, Bill Hader's character. In some shaped to me. Yeah. But but because he's struggling with his own sexuality, and he's scared of it coming out, especially in Derry where it seems everyone is kinda homophobic.

29:43KT: Yeah. But I'm not a fan of that. The guy that makes dick jokes all the time is gay. I know I'm not a guy, but I make dick jokes all the time. So what does that say about me?

29:43Oti: Maybe you're just sending sending me signals, mate.

29:43KT: It doesn't say anything because I wasn't joking.

30:01Oti: But, yeah, maybe that's the sort of loose connection that you could make with it. It's not perfect, but you could probably

30:11KT: But from what I from what I understand, the way and the way that they had them the the adult and the child storylines interwoven together, it actually made sense for where it was. It kind of became displaced because you have chunk the kids movie and then you have a chunk of the adults movie. Yeah. So it it really wasn't there really wasn't that cohesion that was going on. But again, that's just a foundational qualm. I will add another brick to my foundation for that.

30:43Oti: For sure.

30:45KT: So So we were talking about Bill earlier. I felt like he was a dick though. Like, he really just had no sense of his friends. And, you know, it was about Georgie, but it it got to a point where he was, you know, he was asking a lot. He was asking a lot. Let's talk about the meaty part of the Bill sandwich, James McAvoy. How do you think he did in this role?

31:12Oti: I'm not sure he had to be in this movie. Like Yes. You think of James McAvoy and you expect something of note and quality. He did alright in this, like, he did the best he could with this character, but not much more. What else could he do to expose his, you know, range? It's so one dimensional that I thought it's such a waste to have such a person to do this and you could even throw in the fact that who the fuck is his agent because he's been taking crappy roles of late. And

31:54KT: now comes another brick in my foundational qualms. James McAvoy, you are the McAvoy of all the world. How dare you not value yourself as an actor, as a thespian. Right? I regard James McAvoy as someone that embodies acting as a profession. Someone that is is a cut above the rest. Right? Yet he continues to take on mediocre roles. Why, I implore, James McAvoy? Why?

32:38KT: Because to be perfectly honest, the first time I ever saw his performances

32:41KT: was in Last King of Scotland. And we'll leave our best friend Forest Whitaker because he's not part of this conversation today but we do like to talk about him on our podcast. But James McAvoy is he is fucking delicious. He is he is such a delight to the eyes and to the ears and most importantly, not me, but if you have one, the heart. Because he really understands range and even seeing him in Split, we don't acknowledge Glass, but Split. He had such a great performance in that as well. If he doesn't want to,

33:26KT: he doesn't need to take these sorts of roles. They're not necessarily bad roles. There'll be great roles for other people. But I just I regard James McAvoy in a league of a few. He's not Colin Firth level, but he's he's definitely a cut above the majority. Yeah. For sure. And And even coming back to your point, I don't think we needed highly prominent actors in this film. No. We didn't. I think it was also distracting as well. And maybe that's why we don't have the budget of Chapter Two

34:03KT: because it's too many big names. Salaries wait. Yeah. Right? The man your man could be paid like.

34:10Oti: Yeah. Pretty much.

34:14KT: Because, you know, like, James is more than capable. Right? But it's like, I love seeing your face, but let's see you somewhere else. You know what I mean? Yeah.

34:25Oti: Something with a bit more quality. Someone like Ethan Hawke.

34:28KT: James McAvoy should be like Ethan Hawke where he actually deliberately chooses films. And and, you know, it doesn't always need to be independent, but, you know, delight our senses. Right? Don't just pander to our franchisable capabilities.

34:44Oti: Wow. Because it's big budget doesn't mean that you should tie your name down to it as well. Like, it's it's disappointing.

34:53KT: Anyone could have done this and do it justice. James McAvoy has the wettest dick cause he's been wetting his dick in a lot of franchises. Right?

35:04Oti: Oh, yeah. Now you're just waiting for M. Night Shyamalan

35:08KT: He's only skimming worked with him. Oh, you did a crossover. Crossover. Okay. Well, hang on. I'm kind of on board because if if Bill

35:17Oti: can fuck the beast, I'm all for it. Wow. Right? That's a Freddy vs. Jason galore. Like, that would be amazing.

35:26KT: No. It'd be Jason versus his mother galore.

35:29Oti: Oh, that would take that would take it to a

35:33KT: to a new level. Yeah. Like, you don't talk about it, and that's the it you don't talk about. James McAvoy has gotten enough of our time. What kid do you wanna talk about next? Kid slash adult.

35:48Oti: Hader, Richie.

35:51KT: The good thing about Richie is as a kid and an adult, he was consistent. Consistent in the fact that he was unnecessarily annoying. He was always trying to bring levity sometimes in places where it didn't make sense. And his homosexual storyline, again, I it just didn't resonate with me.

35:51Oti: Yeah. He came off as unlikable,

36:14Oti: at least to me in his in his kid state. I was like

36:14KT: But you you like him from Stranger Things.

36:14Oti: I like him from Stranger Things, but it doesn't translate here. He's just a dick. He's so different in Stranger Things than he was here. Like, the characters are complete opposite.

36:31KT: Like, he was literally a caricature. He only had one dimension to him. Yeah. For sure. And literally that was it. And, you know, that that was something else about the adult casting because visually, spot on. But what what I found onerous was throughout the rest of the film, they were just chasing the characteristics of the children. Even the way they were talking were very childish, not in the language because we know a lot about childish language. But in regards to their nuances and their cadences,

37:06KT: it sounded like they were just trying to copy the kids, so they never really got to embody themselves as adults. And I guess you could also argue that, you know, they went through some motherfucking shit. Yeah. And maybe they just haven't, you know, faced those demons, so to speak. But I don't think that's necessarily the case. I thought it was just easy to rely on how the kids were and not really explore themselves as adults.

37:34Oti: Well, he pretty much had zero character development aside from the fact that he used less dick jokes as an adult.

37:44KT: His first joke when he was doing his stand up was he was wanking off to his girlfriend's friend's Facebook page.

37:51Oti: Well, yeah. Forgot about that bit. Yeah.

37:57KT: And what a little bit it was. Let's talk about Bev, Beverly. She went through a lot. It wasn't wholly graphic because it it definitely wasn't the format to do it in, but there are insinuations that Bev's dad sexually abused her. Yeah. And it kind of intensified that insinuation in It Chapter Two because you know, there there's a scene where she's having like a flashback and the the dad is putting the mom's perfume on her. And the fact that she ended up with someone exactly like the father

38:35Oti: who was abusive in that regard, it's just annoying, but you know these things do happen so it's sad at the same time.

38:46KT: Oh yeah, totally. And when she went back to her childhood home, I actually take qualms with you, Oti. Why did you submit naked footage of me? Actually, let me let me give credit to the old lady. She was more perkier than I am. But how how dare you?

39:15Oti: Just trying to get their production value on point. Is that where the budget was? Yep.

39:22KT: But Beverly's character was she was an I will fight anyone. She was the strongest of the losers in will, in spirit, and in body. Because even in the first It, she actually stabbed Pennywise quite a few times actually. Yeah. She did it in the haunted house and she also did it in that cave sewer sort of place. And even though she got taken over at the end of the first film, she was able to come back. She was the only person that survived because she wasn't scared of Pennywise. So

39:57KT: much credit to her as a character.

39:59Oti: Yeah. She she really did show a lot of strength in that. And unlike Mike Hanlon, the younger version, I think his name was Chosen or something. His real name is Chosen. His name is Chosen. Yeah. He was battered across this. Like, he was the most beaten person in that show. Hey. And he had the least screen time. But he was the only one that brought a proper weapon. True. True.

40:24KT: But still could appreciate it. Don't bring a bat to a Pennywise fight is all I'm saying. Yeah. But

40:32Oti: yeah. I was really impressed by Bev, and you could all draw strength from her resilience.

40:38KT: Oti, your hair is midnight fires.

40:43Oti: January embers?

40:45KT: My privates burn there too. You wanted romance? That's what you get, motherfucker.

40:53Oti: That's what I

40:56KT: But character Bev's character is quite interesting. Apparently, according to the book, she does end up with Ben, but she does have a hot tryst with Bill.

41:07Oti: Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things that you know what? What kind of message are they sending in regards to Ben? As a fat kid, you could have a crush on it all the glow

41:19KT: up, though. He had the best glow up. Shout outs to Ben for having the best glow up of 2019.

41:26Oti: You can have it's all well and cute. Oh, he's adorable. And then you have to wait twenty seven years, lose several pounds,

41:37KT: and then you can be viewed as, oh, yeah? Now you're an option for me. No. I didn't think so because I was fucking perverted. In the first movie when he kissed Bev and she was unconscious

41:48Oti: Oh, fuck out of here. He brought he brought her back to consciousness.

41:52KT: To vomit?

41:55Oti: Really? Yeah. That was creepy ass.

41:58KT: Isn't that like a nursery rhyme with, like, Georgie kiss the girls and made them cry? Yeah. Georgie Porgie. That's fucking rapey. Maybe Georgie deserved it. No. I'm not. Ben. Ben is the character you were talking about. The kid that played Ben in the miniseries actually features in the Skype call with Ben as the architect.

42:25Oti: Oh, does he? Yeah. Cute. Right? Yeah.

42:28KT: That was quite nice. But then I feel like in all those years, he lost all that weight and he never gained a personality. They should print that on gyms and put it above the cycle. I don't know. Like, he he still he still carried himself like someone with not much confidence, which was quite sad. Yeah. Which he didn't really get into into the film because, obviously, they had some other pressing matters as well. Let's talk about we talked about Richie. Let's talk about Eddie. Oh. Eddie was also very annoying,

43:11KT: but he was understandably annoying once you met his mother. And the actress is the same apparently, it's the same actress that plays the mom that plays the wife. Yeah.

43:22Oti: I thought they looked similar. Right? Yeah. Alright. What would you do if you had a boner like that? Jesus.

43:31KT: That's full on. I'm with my daddy right now.

43:36Oti: Wow.

43:41KT: Oh, joke's on you if you thought this was going to be a real analysis. But, you know you know what I really liked about Eddie's character though? He was a coward. And even though he freaked out about stuff, it made sense because his mom oh, I'll put it in the show notes, but there's an actual term, first of all, for people that convince themselves that they're sick aside from me on a Monday when I don't wanna go to work.

44:10KT: And then you also have people that try to get other people to convince them that they're sick, usually parents. So they could pretty much depend on Like Patricia Arquette in The Act and Joey King. So that's an actual thing. Right? Yeah. So it makes sense. So even though Eddie was annoying and he was weird about germs and that sort of thing. Even though I think mummy issues was his number one qualm, but anyway,

44:37KT: it it was understandable coming from the household and the frame of reference that he was coming from, that made complete sense. Richie was just annoying for no reason.

44:47Oti: True.

44:48KT: But at the end of the day, Eddie was always there to show up for his friends. In in a Rugrats sort of way, but also in the It Chapter One, Chapter Two sort of way. Yeah. And you wouldn't expect that from him though. You wouldn't. You wouldn't. And what the the opposite of that is Stan.

45:08Oti: Oh, far out, man. He did not

45:11Oti: try at all. And

45:15Oti: the adult Stan, and they're trying to make it they're trying to explain his death as if it was some noble thing. Piss off. No, mate. No. I I I decided to kill myself because it would make It was for the best. Stronger. It would make because I knew I was weak and you needed to be together as one.

45:35Oti: That's why I took my own life. Be swat off. Take ownership for what you did. Don't put that pressure on other people. Oh my god. It's it's and the fact that they tried to spin it as if it was some Nah. Noble shit that he did? Nah, mate. He was weak ass.

45:53KT: Weak, weak ass. Yeah. And, you know, suicide is a touchy subject, and we're not focusing on that. But the plot point, in order for him to not be there anymore, like, really? Really? And but, you know, sometimes you you just have characters on a page or on a script and they really just don't come to life And Stan was just one of them.

45:53Oti: Yeah. For sure. Even when he was taken

46:18Oti: Pennywise took him in the tunnels when they were younger. And when they found him, I was like, oh, you're not my friends anymore. How could you leave me alone? The fucking guy wandered off by himself.

46:31KT: Yeah. Oh my

46:32Oti: god. If there's any character as hateable as anyone,

46:37KT: he takes the cake. He takes the bloody icing as well. But but, like, get lost. If if you don't wanna be a true friend and accept the world that you're in and the role that you're expected to play, then fuck off.

46:50Oti: Yeah, man. I feel like we've we've given him too much airtime that he deserved.

46:58KT: Way too much airtime, more than he got in the movie. Alright. Before we talk about my best friend Bill, I do want to talk about Bowers, Henry Bowers. Because he was a problem. Oh. And we were talking about this when we were watching the first It movie. Growing up, the kids that acted up the most were the ones that got the most severe beatings.

47:25Oti: Oh, for sure. They just took out whatever pent up energy and aggression that they were getting it from home back to the normal kids in school and shit. Like, it's it's ridiculous. He went to next level. He was chopping up Bill as if Ben? Ben. He was chopping up Ben's like a And that's what like There's a lie in me. Yeah. It's it's like, you know, it's a

47:53KT: not unexpected, but it's not an out of the norm thing that kids rough each other up. Right? Punch, kicking the balls, you know, that sort of thing. But that was just my first great experience. We'll we'll move on. But when he started to like, you know, etch into his stomach,

48:15Oti: I'm like, this is some demented shit, man. Yep. This kid is he is not even a kid at this point. This is just some torch it up, whatever it is.

48:27KT: In You call him. In my brown circles, like my siblings and my cousins, we beat each other till we were black and blue, but we never like like, I don't know. That's just such a foreign concept. Like, you need to be on a different level of like violence to get to that point surely.

48:50Oti: Yeah. But his interaction with his dad, man, that was really sad to see.

48:55KT: It was.

48:56Oti: Like, you know he's a dick, but then you see how his dad was treating him, and then the dad was, like, shooting in the ground, and you're like, him all scared up was a coward. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And even the police really see why Even the police force the the police force came and bashed him up as well once they saw that dad was dead. Yeah. But anyway, it's just it's understandable why he was the way he was but fuck, man. Parents can really fuck you up.

49:24KT: In ways that no one else can. Yeah. I just wanna mention one other thing about Henry Bowers because, you know, like in Tim Curry's version and I I know he's not the director but everyone just refers to it as a Tim Curry's version. And in this current iteration, he's in the mental hospital. Right? And in this particular iteration, so in the 2019 version, you have Henry Bowers as an adult and he looked rough. I don't know how much makeup he needed, but Jesus Christ, he looked really rough.

50:01KT: But then he saw like a red balloon. Right? We don't know how he got out of the well in the first film, but he got out because he got arrested that. Right? So you see the red balloon after years that have passed and he's giggling and he's cackling and he's following this balloon. Apparently, according to the book, he actually killed all of his friends within that twenty seven year time. Oh. Yeah. But that that's not mentioned in It Chapter Two. But yeah. So he's following the balloon,

50:28KT: you know, into his room and the way he was cackling and the way he was cavorting down the hallway, just it felt very Joker origin story to me.

50:39Oti: Oh, did it?

50:39KT: Yeah. Especially

50:42KT: Gotham, the way they had like the origin story for Joker there, it felt very like origin story for Joker. And I also just wanna mention when we went to go watch It Chapter Two, one of the trailers that they had before the film was the Joker. And I feel like it was different to the first and the second trailer that's available on YouTube. I feel like there were a bit more different segments that we had in there. And I got so fucking excited.

51:11KT: And then I realized we weren't watching it, and then I got sad again. But anyway anyway Henry Bowers he he was quite interesting to watch him unravel in that so I just wanted to mention that is there anyone else before we open the Skarsgård floodgates?

51:30Oti: Now let's go for Pennywise.

51:33KT: Let's go for Pennywise. Go for gold.

51:39Oti: You start because I feel like I'll be wholly negative on this.

51:43KT: What? You shook me, I didn't even get to emphasize what? Alright. Well, let's just put it this way, while we were waiting to set up this episode, I started to watch, like, interviews of It Chapter Two, and then it just devolved into me watching Skarsgård interviews. I'm just watching how perfect and amazing their family is. Bill Skarsgård is exactly what I was mentioning before. He embodies the acting profession. And, you know, he even talked about in a couple of interviews where he felt like he's kind of been, not necessarily

52:25KT: typecast, but he's kind of fallen into a genre because you also have Castle Rock as well. Yes, please. Yes. Thank you. Castle Rock is a great series. Hulu. Right? Yep. Yes. But, you know, he he is taking those darker sort of roles. He was also in Deadpool 2, as Zeitgeist. He was there for, two seconds. But still, in in any sort of appearance, you are most welcome, Bill Skarsgård. But seeing him embody Pennywise, once I started to like, once he was on the screen, Tim Curry who? No disrespect,

53:04KT: but you know what I mean? Like, that's exactly what you want. If you're going to be remaking a film and taking on such an iconic role, you kind of want people to leave everything at the door and just digest what is unfolding in front of them. Mhmm. Not you?

53:23Oti: Yes. So he performed brilliantly in this, and you could see he's put a lot of effort in. But now my qualms come in the form of Pennywise as a character.

53:38KT: Ah, okay.

53:39Oti: Yes. Because I'm gonna continue the Skarsgård love party after this so you can Of course. Like, regardless of what you think of his performance, which which was brilliant

53:48KT: Brilliant.

53:49Oti: He just doesn't work as a antagonist. Okay. You have Pennywise who is supposed to be, what, feeding off the fear of children Mhmm. As its as its basis of existence or being, and then this sort of changes or I have no idea. So you have twenty seven years has passed and it's come back. What changes? Why does he not go to attack other children? Why is it just the seven k or five six? Because of what we're shown. I'm basing this off what we've just watched.

54:29KT: Oh, we also have an example. I think her name was Vicky. There was a little girl with the birthmark on her face. She was also a recent victim as well. So

54:42Oti: it's a bit Lucky doubles in and out, but then he focuses pretty much on the adult.

54:48KT: It but it's a bit thin to assume that because they might have done more and we just weren't paying attention to the film.

54:54Oti: Okay. Another point. Right? You have great horror characters out there. Yeah. You have Freddy, you have Jason, and then Pennywise. Who is defeated merely by having people fucking believe that he's bloody small? What kind of nonsense is that? You know how stupid that scene looked regardless of how they wanted to make it look? Them shouting, you are small.

55:24KT: You are small, motherfucker. Excuse me. That was ridiculous. Excuse me. Do you know that toxic masculinity and heterosexual men can be defeated just by repeatedly saying, you are small.

55:37Oti: You are small. That explains my shrinking balls, bitch.

55:43KT: No. But if if you say it in a derogatory sense, then, yeah, of course, it's gonna sound stupid. Oh, Freddy can only get you in your dreams? Don't sleep, motherfucker. You know what I mean? Like, you can you can derogatorily,

55:56Oti: you know, dismiss any sort of classic horror character. I just thought that scene at the end of them shouting words at Pennywise were really cringey, and I'm like, fuck. Pennywise is supposed to be one of the greatest characters in horror, and then he's defeated by people shouting at him? Peace right off. Like, no, man. I'm not buying that.

56:20KT: Didn't you know that Pennywise is the modern day George R. R. Martin? You

56:27KT: don't don't think people were yelling at him for an ending? You're small. You're small.

56:34KT: Give us a fucking ending, Samuel Talley. But

56:39KT: apparently,

56:41KT: Stephen King is known and is notoriously associated with not ending things greatly. Like he he's he's known for terrible endings and that's that's a deliciousness of his cameo in the film because Bill is like an extension of Stephen King. Right? And he even gets to say that to James McAvoy's character. Yeah. Which thought it was kind of cute.

57:04Oti: But in the first movie Yeah. They pretty much know that as long as you don't fear Pennywise, he won't be able to hurt you. And the fact that Bev was able to survive or wasn't killed and was just made to float like well, float mid air rather than all the way up there was because Bev wasn't scared of Pennywise. Cut. Twenty seven years later, they've forgotten all that shit, And now they have to regain all their their belief and, oh, now I'm not scared again.

57:37Oti: Oh, let's let's try and shout at him and say, oh, you're small. No. I was like, Farrah, that's just a cop out. It is a cop out. If if you know how to defeat him, and then in the midst of all that, you forget it Mhmm. Maybe they'll try and explain it to save because the farther away you go away from Derry, you forget all that shit, but I'm not buying that nonsense.

57:37KT: But you know you like to sniff that Derry air. Yeah.

58:07Oti: I wish that that was the whole movie. I wish that was the whole three hours. People sniffing Derry air. I would have been happy.

58:17KT: I would like to submit both of our asses.

58:21Oti: But it's it's it's ridiculous in its own because as long as you don't fear Pennywise, he shouldn't be able to hurt you.

58:21KT: Yeah. But that's kind of the crux for all hero,

58:33KT: like, sorry, horror legends.

58:36Oti: I just felt like it was a Martha situation. Like, it's just Martha.

58:42KT: How do you know my mother's name? One of the best like, one of the worst best ex marketers Yeah. Out there is your point.

58:50Oti: It was disappointing to me, at least.

58:52KT: Well, you're disappointing. Shame on you because this was a remake. And what did you expect?

58:59Oti: Do something different, you know, tied down to

59:02KT: Did you expect Awakenings Anew? Because you weren't gonna get that in this film.

59:04Oti: Not even Awakenings Anew. Just try and improve on a character if especially the end goal is to be able to build on Stephen King's work because fuck sakes, it it it was just idiotic. We've sat here for three hours just so that they can remember that they could shout out this motherfucker to kill him.

59:26KT: So so what you're saying is Stephen King is that guy that's really good at foreplay and then when you get at the height of climax, he's like, no, mate, finish yourself off.

59:35Oti: He's alright at foreplay and that's the worst thing about it. Like it's not you're not crescendoing anywhere you're just, it's fine. I can tolerate this and then at the end of it it's just there you go.

59:51KT: Well, there you go anyway. All balls blazing.

59:56Oti: No. But what what do you think of because I know you love Skarsgård, and I think he brought a lot of great to Pennywise compared to the previous iteration. It's just that the issues go deeper than just

60:09KT: Yeah. But that that would have been encountered by no matter who took on this role. Exactly. And and Let me address let me address that before even talking about Bill Skarsgård, ignoring the fact that I've already talked about Bill Skarsgård. So, yes, this movie has its problems. Yes. It feels stale, like you've been wearing the same panties for a week, but we've all been there. Right, ladies?

60:38Oti: What the fuck? Pharaoh. Where in what situation were you I don't even wanna ask. Just continue.

60:38KT: Pheromones, motherfucker.

60:48KT: There's a market for everything. Do you mind?

60:54Oti: So that's what the bag of panties I came across, that's what it is. Yeah. So stop putting them on.

61:05KT: They're not your private stash. I'm trying to earn my keep around here. Come on now. Can I get back to the film? Yeah. Please do. Oh, good on you. You know, this film had problems from the start and we rewatched the first It before going out to watch Chapter Two and we already felt like the first one was too long. The two hour ten minutes or whatever it was. So to have the second Chapter Two hours and forty minutes or forty five minutes, they shot they they did eighty six days of filming

61:41KT: for this film. To what end? To no end. You ain't getting my back end, not after making me watch that. Jesus Christ. Okay. Let's go back to Bill Skarsgård while we still have some time. He is the embodiment of a thespian. I do hope and, in in in some ways, perhaps not Bill Skarsgård, you are listening to this podcast episode. I do hope that he is taking care of himself, particularly mentally. Because to play these sorts of characters, you know, even with Heath Ledger and the Joker, it it it can become quite, you know,

62:24KT: a place of no return, so to speak. So I would hope that Bill Skarsgård is looking after himself. Something funny that I just wanna mention is I was listening to Nerdist with Chris Hardwick, and he did an interview with Bill Skarsgård, like, two years ago. I'll put it in the show notes. And Bill Skarsgård, it was one of the cutest moments ever. And I promise to you, Oti, it is related because last week we talked about 30 Rock. Right? Mhmm. Apparently,

62:53KT: I don't know who's talking to Bill Skarsgård, but people have been telling Bill Skarsgård that he looks like a young Steve Buscemi. I think it's the eyes maybe. But anyway, in this podcast episode, Bill was he was cutely so so cutely trying to find the GIF of Steve Buscemi in 30 Rock saying, hey, how do you do fellow kids? Because he was trying to talk, trying to be able to relate when he was filming it. And it was one of the cutest things ever and it really just warmed my heart.

63:29KT: But I just also just feel like, you know, if it's not Daniel Kaluuya, if it's not Forest Whitaker, one of the sort of actors that I talk about a lot is the Skarsgård family. Please listen to our Vikings episode. Gustaf Skarsgård apparently taught Bill Skarsgård how to do that creepy smile where he points his lip. Oh. Right? And Vikings will be coming out quite soon in its final season, so feel free to listen to that. And you also have Alexander Skarsgård, who we love, Big Little Lies in your vampire one. True Blood.

64:09KT: Are you happy to admit that? It's it was an amazing show

64:13Oti: in its earlier seasons. Okay, Snooki. Is that the only one possibly know?

64:18KT: Yes. Okay. And also, The Legend of Tarzan. But you have such a talented family. Right? And, you know, I also mentioned that I do have some Swedish ancestry. You know, maybe Stellan Skarsgård, if you were in Australia less than around thirty years ago, I'm just I'm just saying. Let's let's get that DNA test because I might be KT Skarsgård with a double d. There's nothing else to say. Is there anything else you wanna add to this episode?

64:18Oti: There's nothing. Let's

65:02Oti: wrap it up.

65:03KT: There's literally nothing else to say. Okay, guys. Well, thank you so much for listening for another week or for another episode if you're doing a nice little binge. Let's get into a segment that we call For Your Reference. Oti.

65:20Oti: Oh, I would reference Hereditary by Toni Collette just because it's an amazing piece of horror. If you want to watch a horror and be frightened and enthralled at the same time, Hereditary is it. Like the fact that it didn't win anything is fucking ridiculous and it just goes to show you that the genre of the horror film can be of great quality but things like it's just trying to undermine it. But Hereditary is just amazing. Go and watch it.

65:58KT: And I will reference Castle Rock Oh. Which is the Hulu miniseries also from Stephen King that has our ever eternal, Bill Skarsgård, and also our cute little Mike Hanlon. He's also in there as well. So thank you so much for tuning in this week, guys. If you miss us already, if you wanna get nasty again, feel free to check out our catalog of episodes on Twitter and Instagram. We are for your ref pod.

66:27Oti: And you can write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

66:32KT: If you'd be so kind, we would love if you would leave us a five star rating and review on our podcast.

66:37Oti: And we'll see you next week.

66:41KT: Float them titties, guys. See you. Bye.

66:52Oti: Hi.