The Chi – Douda right thing

Full transcript of The Chi – Douda right thing.

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1:52KT: Howdy doody, friends and lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT.

1:52Oti: And Oti.

1:52KT: Greet a stranger, but ignore your neighbor as we cover Showtime's The Chi this week. Mhmm. Hoo hoo hoo. Applies to season one and season two of this show. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome. We take kindly to your kind in the For Your Reference household around her. Let's start off with the stats. We have creator, Lena Waithe, executive producer. This show has rotated showrunners every season.

2:27KT: Mhmm. But they are going to continue the current showrunner for season four. If you didn't know Oti, there will be a season four of The Chi. Oh, okay. Breaking references in the news house over here. It is airing on Showtime. We do watch. We do dabble in the Showtime, maybe not as much as HBO, but I think this might be the first Showtime that we've covered on this show.

2:52Oti: Yes. Indeed.

2:54KT: It's Showtime tonight. Mhmm. Love that. It was released in March 2018 even though we most recently just watched The Chi Mhmm. This year. Right?

3:01Oti: Yeah. This year. And with the cast, have Jason Mitchell, Jacob Kenny Latimore.

3:11KT: That's a reference for Oti's generation.

3:11Oti: Get out of town. Everyone knows Kenny Lattimore.

3:11KT: Are we just gonna pretend that you made me Google them?

3:26Oti: And finally, we have Ntare Guma Mbaho Mwine.

3:31KT: Thanks for joining me on the stats Oti. I love this collaboration.

3:34Oti: You're welcome. Welcome.

3:37KT: So let's continue on in a segment we call first impressions. Welcome. Welcome. If you are an avid fan of The Chi and that's how you found us, this is where we talk about how we felt generally. We do love Lena Waithe in the For Your Reference podcast all the accolades to her Thanksgiving episode in Master of None which we have an episode on we also have an episode of Queen and Slim yeah we still give accolades in some regards and we've referenced Twenties quite a lot throughout our podcast as well

4:11KT: and we're also aware of the fact that you know Bloody hell, we've covered a lot of Lena Waithe me Oh, absolutely. And and if anyone is a Lena Waithe fan, just remember that as we continue our discussion. But welcome, welcome, welcome. But, yes, this is absolutely where we talk about, you know, our general sort of thoughts on the series. Again, we've we've talked about Lena Waithe. We can talk about if any of the actors if we've come across them before. But just the general sort of sprinkling, this is also our opportunity

4:46KT: to say. Spoiler. Spoiler. Spoiler. And for season one, splooshes, splooshes, splooshes. Mhmm. And also season two. So, Oti, start us off.

4:57Oti: I've seen The Chi suckle around for a while. I'm hearing people click clacking on their keyboards. And for some reason, I really didn't get a chance to sit down and just watch it properly. Because we knew it was there. We knew it was there. We watched Twenties before we watched this. Yeah. We knew it was there. We saw heaps and heaps of trailers advertising

5:16Oti: it. Yeah. But it just didn't grab my attention to the level of, oh, I'm gonna sit down and watch this. So earlier this year, when we finally had the time to really get into The Chi, I was shocked Mhmm. Disgusted by myself for not realizing just how great the show was because we binged the first and second season in under a weekend. Yeah. That takes dedication. And not only even that, it just shows how good the show was. Yeah. Absolutely. The first two seasons,

5:51Oti: I don't think I've been enthralled by any TV series in as much as I was with The Chi, where I loved the characters. Immediate emotional attachment. Exactly. Yeah. And the storyline was so in-depth. You'd cling to everything. Absolutely. You know, even the characters that you didn't necessarily like, they still offered value in some regard.

6:13KT: They they they added to the tapestry that was The Chi. The tapestry indeed.

6:19Oti: And it was one of my if you'd asked me, if I had stopped watching The Chi within the first two seasons, it would have been really up there with one of the best TV shows I have ever watched personally. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I watch fucking a lot, so it means a lot to y'all, mate. Yeah. We fuck a lot.

6:39KT: And season three fucked us a lot unfortunately. I absolutely agree. I I told you season one season two ten out of 10 show. Stay tuned for our Christmas special where we rate everything we covered in the cause you're not gonna hear that but you know entertainment is a vessel it can be hopefully a vehicle for change and it can also be a microcosm of a world or experiences that you're not necessarily, you know, within your own frame of reference. Mhmm. Right? But there are things that feel uniquely genuine

7:20KT: to the world. So for example, obviously, everyone compared The Wire. You know, when you watch the first two seasons of The Chi, you definitely feel that sense of The Wire. The Wire felt without having any sort of frame of reference, The Wire felt very Baltimore. Right? And, you know, if we wanna talk about shows feeling more central, Power. Go and listen to our episode with Colby. It was, like, two hours long. But Power felt very New York. 30 Rock felt very New York. Insecure feels very California.

7:52KT: Snowfall feels very California. Even The Shield feels very California. So Lord of the Rings felt really middle off me. Thank you. Thank you, Tolkien, from our reference South Park. You're welcome. But, you know, like, without having a lot of understanding of, you know, the struggles and the triumphs of Chicago as a city, it felt so great to immerse ourselves in The Chi, and it really had its own voice. It had its own flavor. It had its own way of walking.

8:29KT: And I really appreciated that in season one and season two that we had in this show. And, you know, aside from season three, nothing can be taken away from that. No. Nothing at all. So feel free to join along. We know a lot of our friends and lovers like to listen to episodes even if they haven't watched what we're covering because you like to be spoiled in all of your sploosh places, and we very much appreciate that. But if you have watched The Chi and you were confused between season two and season three,

9:03KT: just from story lines alone from main characters being killed off and that sort of thing. You know, there were allegations in regards to Jason Mitchell, whether those are true or substantiated. It's a very gray area. Like, even watching Breakfast Club interviews with Lena Waithe and also another one with Jason Mitchell, nothing's very clear. But in any case, he he had to leave the show. But how they dealt with that was very confusing. We also have the actor that plays Reg also left the show as well.

9:38KT: So a a lot of things were left up in the air behind the scenes that dramatically, you know, negatively impacted the way the show rolled out in season three.

9:51Oti: Same script, different cast.

9:54KT: Oh, I love that. Is that a is that a Oti Lattimore?

9:59Oti: That's an Oti on me. Oh my.

10:04KT: You can you can tune my Spanish guitar anytime, my love. But it oh, I've never felt as much frustration as I felt watching The Chi as I do with American Gods. I think that's the best example I can give where, yeah, shit happens behind the scenes, but it, like, catastrophically impacted the on screen following seasons and and the storylines. Shout out to Orlando Jones and Anansi in American Gods. Like, it it viscerally I will say it. Come and fight me on our on my personal Twitter, not our podcast Twitter. It ruined the show. It

10:44KT: ruined The Chi, and I'm also talking about American Gods, I guess, as well. But, you know, The Chi had something very special. It it it had its own heartbeat. And, unfortunately, you know, there there's so much key messaging, important messaging that is that is flooding that heartbeat of the show, unfortunately.

11:02Oti: I think one of the most frustrating things is we'd spent two seasons loving the main characters. Mhmm. You know? Getting where the storyline is going, anticipating what will happen with this main characters. And then for the rug to simply be pulled out of your feet to not even realize why they're doing that. Yeah. There's no information whatsoever.

11:31Oti: Yeah. And then you're sitting there wondering what the fuck. Mhmm. You know? And to not even address it in the show and just kill Brandon off and then throw some subliminal

11:41Oti: shit to hit towards him. Like, it doesn't really make sense. It it it was bad taste, especially when La La came into the picture and was like, Brandon ain't shit. Brandon was pretty much fucking everything in that show. I think it was just a real embodiment of everything Chicago was. But if you didn't know the behind the scenes of the show, I think it was just reinforcing to the audience that he's not coming back. Like, that's enough. Not I just didn't take it. Like, they didn't say anything that Brandon did wrong.

12:09Oti: Yeah. And there's speculation, but I'm not into taking speculation as fucking fucked. Yeah. So unless you tell me what he did wrong, you can't just come and slander the guy Yeah. Who we actually loved the first of fucking two seasons, and he's everything. Just like Johnny Depp. Built the show on him and his shoulders and his character. Yeah. So for you to come and say, he ain't shit, what the fuck? You're throwing pretty much everything that we've based the show on, we've based The Chi on down the bloody trash.

12:38KT: How much of that is based on how you feel about La La, though? I'd say 90%, but it doesn't doesn't matter.

12:45Oti: No. La La is shit.

12:49KT: Friends and lovers, let me have some time to pull all of my glasses up. I always talk about my very learned, very deep research, usually through way of IMDb trivia. Unfortunately, this show doesn't have a lot, but I did find my way, and I stumbled into Reddit threads about The Chi. And, you know, people were talking about, you know, how they felt, especially about season three. And, you know, maybe Oti was on there because 90% of it was about La La and how she ruined the show. How she single handedly ruined the show.

13:31Oti: It's it's hard not to not to agree with them. Yeah.

13:35KT: But, yeah, again, what whatever happened happened, and it is unfortunate. But, you know, like, it's not just one person sitting in a room writing a web series. This is a real network with a proper writer's room, with a showrunner, with directors, and, you know, I I don't fucking know. I'm not in Hollywood. But, you know, there's a whole machine behind this show, so I don't understand how it slipped through everyone's fingers so viscerally.

14:08Oti: Yeah. It's like casting Prison Break, killing off Schofield, and making Abruzzi the main guy, and he's supposedly supposed to have all this he's done a lot of crap things, and you're not supposed to like him. And then

14:08KT: Speaking of, we need to get to Ronnie.

14:08Oti: But yeah. Because that's a problem. You can't you can't there's there can't be such a turnaround

14:29Oti: where you think, oh, Ronnie is pretty much The Deep of this. And then you come to us or, like, The Deep is not the the main lead in The Boys. They're like, pissed right off. Doesn't make sense.

14:29KT: Well, also, Emmett as well. I don't think he was bolstered in enough substance to But he's not strong enough to be the lead. I agree. I know we don't agree often, my love, but I'm actually agreeing with frustrating. Taking such a really good show Mhmm. And decimating it. Yeah. Anyway, I think we'll focus more on what we loved about this show

15:00KT: after Actually, this this is a question. So season four has been confirmed. Do you care enough? Would you would you want to watch the fourth season, or do you think we just cut our losses and try and remember the times of old?

15:18Oti: The fact that I watched season three, like, I it can't be worse than that, so I'll go and

15:20KT: Don't say that. Surely, it can't be worse than that. I I there was also another comment on the Reddit thread saying that season one and season two started off and felt like The Wire, and then by the end of season three, it felt like a Tyler Perry show.

15:39Oti: Oh, man. Acrimony up in here.

15:43KT: But we we do love Tyler Perry in the For Your Reference household. There is character development on our love for Tyler Perry. Go and listen to our #BlackAF episode. He's paving his own lane. So good for him, but also at the same time, no one is immune to our our gander Mhmm. And our candle and you know what's really funny about this Oti because in the schedule of life we've always intended and we've mentioned in a couple of podcast episodes that we are going to

16:14KT: cover The Chi so if you still haven't watched it I guess that's on you But it finished airing at the end of August. And we're still very, very passionate about how we feel about the show.

16:29Oti: Because it's so few times that you get to get a show like The Chi. It was so great. And to have a cast that not only do you buy into their story, but you also love them, and for her to completely just change with a flip of a switch Yeah. It just felt wrong to me. And it felt like just putting yourself down in a position of, you know, power. And I don't understand most of these things. And if wrong was done, then fair enough. But a lot of the storylines were just

17:03Oti: discarded. It felt season three felt like a stand alone. And if season three was a pilot for any fucking show, that shit will not be renewed for any season. And that's for sure. Oh, absolutely.

17:14KT: I think it's it's we talked about this in The Game episode, Michael Douglas, if you're nasty, about how it becomes more frustrating when something starts off strong as opposed to it, you know, being enjoyable but not heightening expectations. And I think that's part of what got us very frustrated with The Chi. But, you know, let let's talk about Brandon's character because he really was at the center of the show. You know, I'll I I feel like a lot of the interviews afterwards, especially with Jacob Latimore, Emmett,

17:52KT: because he kind of becomes more of the main sort of character, there was a lot of damage control in regards to interviews or any sort of articles after or while the third season was being aired. And a lot of it was about how vibrant the story was and how there wasn't really a main character, and it it kind of bounced off other people. And I don't necessarily agree.

18:15Oti: No. He was the main character. What does he mean there wasn't any main character? Brandon was the foundation

18:21Oti: on which The Chi was paved.

18:24KT: And every character pretty much connected to Brandon in some shape or form. Yeah. Part of the reason why we love Emmett so much was because he was under the tutelage of Brandon. Without that, you just have frivolity and nasty sex, which is great on a Tuesday night when the episode comes out. But what else, sir? What else, indeed?

18:48Oti: And you know what? Even even take Brandon off the bloody picture. Well, we did. That's what season three is. What happened to Q? Yeah. What happened to the two detectives who were investigating Q? Yeah. And try to bring down the, you know,

19:03Oti: the drug dealers in The Chi.

19:03KT: Okay. So let's let's let's actually talk about that specifically. So a lot of a lot of the ass fell out. I think that's is that a KT Tonga in your phrase or mine? Yep. Okay. Thank you for validating that. I really appreciate you validating my ass. So in regards to

19:25Oti: It's free validation, mate.

19:26KT: For everyone? Yeah.

19:28Oti: Jokes.

19:30KT: Contact us for 20% off, the discount code. But in regards to season one and season two, detective Cruz in particular was quite foundational to, I guess, another perspective, another turning of the coin in regards to Jason's death and also Coogie's death. We saw different parts of the community being affected by these young lives being lost. Mhmm. Right? He happened to be a police, I guess, if that's what you wanna say, but he did care about the kids. Yeah. So, you know, we talked about this in our Queen and Slim episode, and

20:09KT: I hate to do this, but here we are. This is the body of work. You know, we talked about it in Queen and Slim. And, you know, Lena Waithe was talking about how no one is definitively good. No one is definitively bad. This isn't a spoiler for Queen and Slim, but they're you know, even in the trailer, they they talk about a a standoff between a cop and Daniel Kaluuya and Jodie Turner-Smith's character, Queen and Slim.

20:32KT: But, you know, Lena Waithe fur furthers to say that at the end of that particular scene, you see a photo of that particular cop's family. So that's to denote to the fact that he's not a 100% bad. Mhmm. Right? So it isn't unique to The Chi. Lena Waithe has, you know, tried to allude to the fact that she doesn't really wanna continue perpetuating that good cop sort of image interesting because that's conflicting

21:02KT: with Queen and Slim but in any case that it doesn't make sense in the show but it makes complete sense once you know that because they completely removed law enforcement

21:13KT: from the show, which doesn't really make any sense because if you talk about Reg, if you even talk about Douda, to have, you know, like, drug dealers in the community just doing whatever the fuck they want, it's unrealistic to have them there without the police being there. Yeah. Whether the police are good, whether the police are bad, it it it becomes fantasy that there is no police at all. Like, it's an interesting, I guess, creative decision that, okay,

21:47KT: like, you know, cops have become that, you know, Vic Mackey, for example. Right? The antihero that everyone grows to love. But also at the same time, there is a presence of police everywhere, especially if you have crime as well. Yeah.

22:03Oti: Yeah. A 100% agreed. And I think the mistake was to do away without storyline completely. Mhmm. And if Q was brought down, then definitely there's a case of investigating Douda who had free rein to do pretty much everything. And it was open it was open to everyone that Douda was really, really bad. Everyone knew Douda on the street. They knew everything that he did. And the fact there was no oversight whatsoever Yeah. Even the cops investigating Q didn't even appear at all. Yeah. It just felt wrong.

22:36KT: Well, especially because, you know, maybe not season one, but season two in particular, you know, Brandon was going to lift the lid off of all of that. Mhmm. Right? He was going to uncover everything in regards to Douda, and then it just fell off. So let's talk a bit about the characters that orbit Brandon's sort of proximity. I wanna talk about Coogie. I wanna talk about aka Kima, Sonja Sohn, Laverne Johnson, who plays Coogie and Brandon's mom. I also wanna talk about Hannibal,

23:13KT: hands down one of the best characters in this show. He grows weed, and he minds his business. I feel like that should be, like, a keep calm, carry on sort of merch. Yeah. Someone should make that with his face on it. And, also, Jerrika, his girlfriend, and I guess by the end of season two, they're engaged because they have a very interesting sort of dynamic as well. So I wanna talk about the characters surrounding Brandon.

23:37Oti: I think Coogie Coogie was really interesting. I thought I didn't see him being killed off as soon as he did. Yeah. And when that happened, it just high highlighted the characters or characteristics of every other person in the show Mhmm. Which was really good and strong to do. I think one of the saddest things was it highlighted also the failure of the system where information really leaked to whatever extent, and those there wasn't really that much protection. Yeah. When Coogie was suspected of killing Jason, there wasn't that protection,

24:16Oti: you know, to keep that information secure. And we see the we see detective Cruz, you know, trying to console the family by saying, hey, we have a we have a suspect. It's Coogie. And, you know, he goes by whatever fucking name. And that's just so wrong on so many levels. Uh-huh. And until something bad happened,

24:36Oti: which was really expected because you can't tell someone that, oh, I've lost a son and we know this suspect is this guy and then just leave it at that and expect that to leave that to the hands to the law to do to handle that. Just didn't make any sense. So it was really sad to see how all that transpired.

24:55KT: But I think also at the same time, you know, depending on where you are in the world and the experiences that you had, like, it might be very confronting to see a kid like Coogie, you know, checking a dead body to see what he can take from it. But at the same time, he was just a kid and he was in the environment that he was in. It also shows the level of desensitization

25:17KT: to dead bodies. Absolute gunshots.

25:20Oti: Yeah. Like, it's just every other day. Mhmm.

25:25KT: And, you know, Laverne, aka Kima from The Wire, at the start of season three, make no mistake, I was sobbing like a wee baby Seamus when she delivered that speech. And, you know, she said that she had no right bringing these boys into this world. Yeah. And they didn't deserve what was given to them, and they deserved to be on this earth a lot longer. And,

25:48KT: you know, I I encourage you guys to watch that scene again. I encourage you to read the transcript of that scene because it felt so real. Like, especially at the start of season three because nothing made sense. And I guess that's credit to the writing and to Sonja's acting that I still felt everything I needed to feel in that scene. Yeah. Also speaking at the start of season three, I I I guess I could speak on behalf of you if you will allow me. I didn't

26:21KT: I thought it was Reg. I thought we were at the funeral for Reg.

26:27Oti: Yeah. Reg didn't even get a bloody funeral mate. Reg did not get a funeral.

26:33KT: Based on the way he went out, it was clear why it was clear that he died. Like, I don't think we're gonna have a Bold and the Beautiful moment where he's gonna rise from the ashes. But, yeah, it it all felt very disjointed, but that scene stuck with me and all continued to stick with me. You know, there there's a lot of things that this show tries to achieve, and I do feel like that scene is one of the triumphs of this show. Oh, a 100 a 100%.

27:03Oti: Because we we see her struggle. Mhmm. We see her struggle with Coogie's death and how that affects her. And then to lose Brandon that way. Yeah. Knowing full well how it transpired, it just it was a moment where we had to pause and just collect our faculties.

27:21KT: I do love a good faculty.

27:23Oti: It's one of the most heart trenching things that scenes that we've watched. Mhmm. Piggybacking off season one and two and everything that's transpired because they've built it up so well.

27:34KT: Yep. Yeah. And, again, it's interesting. It's been months since the show has ended. It it is hard to reconcile because, arguably, and, yes, I will argue, that Brandon was the protagonist of this show. If ever there were a foundation, it was Brandon. So to have that, you know, pulled up from under us, it was hard to reconcile where to go from there. Yeah. And it I I do you know, we do talk a lot about, you know, emotional deaths and choosing when to do them.

28:10KT: I wouldn't say it was unearned, but I do feel like it could have been done differently. Oh, yeah. It could have definitely been done differently. But let's move on within Brandon's proximity. We have Hannibal, who's Brandon's cousin. And I love that he gets maybe not a bigger role, but he he continues to have relevance in the show later on with Tiffany, who's Emmett's partner or current partner.

28:39Oti: Yeah. Just because he's the weed preneur of the show.

28:42KT: Oh, how much equity would you like, Oti? Oh, all of it. Would you like some validation on that ass? Mhmm. Oh, you're most welcome. It's nice to see because also at the same time, Hannibal was very successful in his field as well. One of the most compelling, you know, sort of attributes that Brandon had to The Chi was he wanted to live a better life than he had. Right? He wanted that for Coogie. And when Coogie left, he wanted to continue that dream for himself even with that food truck.

29:18KT: And he tried to spray paint it himself. But he always tried to find a way to get out from where he was from. Oh, for sure. And that kind of peppers into what I wanna talk about him and Jerrika. Because as we see, Jerrika is kind of like a upper, higher, middle class sort of you know, her parents own a real estate business, and they're very Parents for money. They're affluent, and they're successful. And, you know, Brandon has been training and is very qualified in the culinary sort of arts. Did

29:58KT: I call cooking culinary arts? You sure did. Give KT all of the awards in 2020, please. But there is a very poignant scene because, you know, there were quite a few scenes where we get an inkling that Jerrika's parents do not approve of the relationship.

30:16Oti: Yep. Because he's a cook.

30:19KT: Right?

30:20Oti: Right? In this day and age, in the world of in the world where you have Gordon fucking Ramsay

30:26KT: Oh, yeah. You can put your snooze down on cooks. Gordon, fuck me, Ramsay.

30:33Oti: Bloody ridiculous.

30:35KT: No. But we have that scene. I think they called it a garden party. See, you can tell I I I was poor, and I'm still poor. But I think they called it a garden party, and they had a caterer. And it happened to be Brandon's friend. So Brandon wanted to help out. He was having fun. He was enjoying himself, and that was kind of the first moment in that particular event that he felt comfortable,

30:56KT: and he felt happy. Yeah. We we we don't ask for a lot, but happiness is hard to achieve. And he found happiness in that moment. Mhmm. Right? And it became this shameful thing that he's even enjoying being able to help his friends. Being a servant is what they called it. Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting because okay. You know what? There's a lot, fortunately, unfortunately, that we inherit from our parents. Right? But it comes to a certain point usually, it's age. But it comes to a certain point where you can no longer hide behind their ignorances,

31:36KT: and those ignorances are your own. Mhmm. Because she kept spouting this bullshit of like, oh, no. It's my parents. It's my parents. But in the way she acts, in the way she talks, especially in front of her parents, she didn't stand up for him.

31:49Oti: Yeah. She was a completely different person around her parents. It's disgusting. Because we see her away from that, and she's strong. And I think one of the bit most things that I think I liked about Jerrika was that she at least at the time, I thought that she knew what she was and where she belonged and what she wanted to aspire to.

32:07KT: Do you hear that friends and lovers? It was a back pedal and it was based on my face.

32:15Oti: And then you bring the parents into the picture and she's a completely different person. I hate that. Yeah. And and I was like, cool. Cool. I understand this from okay. Maybe she's just I give a lot of liberties.

32:30KT: But even with the housing development. Right? Mhmm. And the way that she I don't know. And the way that the the landlord didn't like Jerrika at all until she came over for dinner and she met Brandon.

32:45Oti: Yeah. Brandon's cooking as well. Exactly. Exactly.

32:51KT: And I don't know. Like, we've all lived a hard life and we've all been through shit and that's not to, you know, disband anyone sort of experiences. But what I would say to that is when you put your big person pants on, you can't hide behind anyone else. I know you can't. So either you relinquish the ignorances that your parents instilled into you or you you own it. There's no in fucking between. Agreed. I felt like I wanted to punch everything when Brandon proposed because she was

33:24KT: I don't like using this word, but she was toxic. You think because she was just a cute, petooty little thing that she wasn't toxic? She fucking was.

33:35Oti: Wow. I didn't see her as toxic. I just saw her as trying to find her her lane, trying to find herself. And

33:44KT: But why does why does Brandon need to lose out while she finds herself? Why does he need to play, as her friend quoted, that good thug dick? Why does he need to play that role while she finds herself? It's wrong.

33:59Oti: Yeah. Yeah. I see your point. I see your point. I'm not gonna fight over Jerrika over here, but at least I understood where she was coming from or at least what she tried to do.

33:59KT: Now you know the r in NPR stands for reference, motherfuckers.

34:15KT: Thank you for coming to our TEDx talk. Mhmm. Let's move on to some other characters. We've kind of already talked about detective Cruz and also Alice Toussaint. The only one only thing I wanna say in regards to detective Toussaint in this particular case, I hated her puffed up vibrato. You know, Being in IT, I guess that's the only frame of reference I have in being in a male dominated industry

34:45KT: and how you feel like you need to be bigger and you need to take bigger space in the room. And you you you need to teeter the balance between being aggressive and also being assertive. Like, I understand that. But I did not care, sir. I did not care for detective Alice Toussaint talking down to detective Cruz just because he wasn't black. Right? So she just assumed that he knew nothing and he didn't care about the community. Yeah.

35:17Oti: Yeah. When he was like the wealth of knowledge. Yeah. She came off as a problem. And we later saw that she actually needed detective Cruz to do anything, to get any anything done. Mhmm. So to solve was a problem, but I felt like there was a development coming along. Oh, absolutely. But as we all know, that was pretty much cut short. She didn't have the Prezbylewski

35:39Oti: no point of return. I'll throw this into the bush and start teaching.

35:48KT: Yeah. That's another Wire reference. Okay. Let's move on to, I guess, in season three, a main character. And this, friends and lovers. I do not pull my foundational qualms card out all the time, but I will present them right now. Ronnie is a fucking problem.

36:10Oti: Yeah.

36:11KT: It is. So so so let's talk about it because in real life and even as a viewing experience, there are some cardinal sins, crimes, actions, whatever you wanna call it. There are some things that characters and people do that there's no point of return. Mhmm. Okay? If you are those friends and lovers that haven't watched The Chi and you just fucking miss us and you wanna listen, we love you right back. But just to fill, I guess, you guys in, Ronnie shot Coogie out of retaliation,

36:47KT: out of revenge because of Jason. Mhmm. Because Jason died. Mhmm. Right? And he seemed to have believed that Coogie was the one at hand. Yeah. So a grown man shot a child. Mhmm. I wanna make that very clear. There's there's only a few things. And, you know, Oti, you talked about it in our Fallen episode in your Catholic sort of upbringing. There are some things that just can't be forgiven. Right? And I believe that follows through from a story point of view. Mhmm.

37:20KT: When someone kills a child in my personal view from a TV show, from a movie, there's no coming back. Yep. You can create. And in season three, it was very clear that you can create characters out of nowhere. Do that. If you want us to root for someone, do it on a clean slate. Whether it's an existing character that doesn't have that sort of baggage or whether it's a completely new character, again, we see in season three, do that.

37:51KT: Don't try and give me a redemption arc on someone that has killed a child. Yeah. It felt really like

37:59Oti: Jesus Rolls' justification for having the movie at the start. You know? Shout outs to Ben, Paul, and Adam from Filmbusters. We fucking love you. It felt at that level. Like, I'm, like, sitting here thinking, why are we focusing so much on fucking Ronnie's road to redemption? Thank you. No one needs that. He didn't even need that in the first place. It was still ridiculous. It was still ridiculous, and I was just completely put off by it. You know. And ideally to me, the focus would have gone to Kevin, Jake, and Papa. Absolutely.

38:31Oti: And let's focus on them. Yeah. The hardships of them growing up in Chicago's environment. Where the fuck is Papa? Where the fuck is bloody Papa? You know? Big Papa. But then again, we we we come to have Ronnie as the focus and him feeling a way about being rejected by the community It's and expecting us to feel fucking sad for him. No, mate. My sadness is reserved for people who fucking deserve it.

38:59KT: It's interesting to know that you feel the same way I do because, you know, we talk a lot about Oti being very patient and watching ten seasons of something he doesn't like. I was voicing how I felt while we were watching, you know, season two also and season three. But you kind of kept poo pooing me. So I thought that you were okay with this redemption arc. No. No. Not at all.

39:24Oti: I just wanted something different. Yeah. I just wanted something to make sense, to not try and push Ronnie down our bloody throats because we don't deserve it, and he, for sure, did not deserve getting that much screen time. No.

39:40KT: He didn't. And, you know, as much as I love dissecting, analyzing, my brain is too fucking small to reconcile whether I should forgive or care about someone that killed a child. You know? Like, again, we are talking within the realms of entertainment, and that's why I love staying within TV shows and movies. This is not a documentary. But at the end of the day, if you have that sort of character that has done a a deplorable, unforgivable thing, then no. I I don't wanna hear how you're doing better

40:18KT: because the kid that you shot isn't doing at all.

40:22Oti: Or you don't care about his father or how he didn't know his father growing up. Like, does that make it better? Shit, mate. Yeah. Doesn't bloody matter. Yeah. Absolutely. Him trying to get an emotional scene of visiting his father

40:36Oti: and getting to see, why did you tell me that you were there all along? Yeah. I was struggling by myself. I killed a child.

40:45Oti: And the dad was like, yeah, mate. I know what you did.

40:45KT: I love how you sound exactly like him.

40:45Oti: I try.

40:51KT: I try. Yeah. I just like, you know, I think it even happens in the first episode or, you know, at least in the first season where he shoots Coogie. Right? Like, we talk about the power of the. So yeah. Cool. And I love Tracy. I don't know why they kept trying to dress her in mom clothes because I could see what she was working with, and I was most welcome. Right? So I I I can get that, you know, through, you know, loving someone and loving their child,

41:27KT: you know, he he felt an obligation to do something. I really didn't think he was gonna follow through. Yeah. But that was just my good faith that he wasn't gonna do anything. But, again, if you're gonna do it, do that. That's fine. But don't make me have a quandary about whether I I should, you know, do calculations like a death screw battle of, okay, he killed a kid, but he also saved a kid. Like, you know, where where does that fit on the plane of quandaries?

41:58Oti: Oh, yeah. For sure. For sure. I and the most annoying thing for me at least in this Mhmm. Is I knew from the get go, they're setting it up so that he is the one that finds Keisha. Yeah.

42:10KT: Yeah.

42:11Oti: I was like, oh, man. Beast right off. Beast right off with this.

42:15KT: The things that they shouldn't have been connecting, they connected. And the things that should have been, like, you know, connected were left alone. So, yeah, I I I did not care for it. I I do care for Common, so it was nice to see Common even though he was introduced through way of Ronnie's ongoing redemption. I do wanna make a comment and, you know, we are getting very heavy and we are getting very real, but I just wanna make a very light comment. Ethel Davis Mhmm. That was supposed to be his grandmother.

42:53KT: Yeah. Not his mother.

42:55Oti: Yeah.

42:56KT: How does how does age work?

43:01Oti: Ethel Davis is just a queen mate.

43:04KT: I suppose. You know, we we talk a lot about veterans and how collectively we, the world, not specific to America, but the world, how we should take care of our veterans. But, also, that doesn't discard the actions that he took in regards to Coogie. Like, again, I don't wanna sit here as much as Oti loves an abacus on that ass, I don't wanna sit here and equate to the nth degree on on what equalizes him as a good person. Right? I don't wanna I don't wanna have to do that. But at the same time,

43:48KT: I get that he's fractured as a character. And, again, you talked about the dad. We talked about him as a veteran and him experiencing PTSD, you know, the the overwhelming expectations that you have from family members, Ethel in particular. I understand that, but I think a lot of like, a lot of the emotional investment we had with Brandon, they were just like, hey. Care about Ronnie now? And, again, I I just I was not with that at all. Let's move on to Emmett. Emmett is very cute. I'm not even talking about, like, attractively.

44:27KT: Like he was a cute character to have but to make Creed the main character of The Office, like you'll have Emmett's blogs Yeah. On a fucking word document. That's an office reference. Who hasn't fucking watched if you've watched The Chi and you haven't watched The Office, please email us because I think that defines us a unicorn. Mhmm. But, yeah, Emmett is a very fun loving. I think the first time we're introduced to Emmett is when,

44:59KT: you know, he's a sexual partner, and he's engaging in their sex with Keisha. Mhmm. And we have Jada coming in asking her to come out. Yeah. She's, like, butt naked under the bed. Right? So, you know, from the get go, I think it's quite clear who Emmett is. Not to say that that's what he's restricted as, but we kind of get introduced to who Emmett is as a character and what we're going to get out of him we also learned that at least at that point in time he has two other baby mamas and

45:34KT: he's not taking care of them he's spending all of his money his spare money any money he can get on his shoes.

45:41Oti: Yep. And that's the character that made a main one. Yeah.

45:45KT: Filet Mignon. I well, you you you're not really a big sort of sneaker head, are you?

45:45Oti: No. No. Just that that ship sort of just went

45:58Oti: right over over us, mate. Yeah.

46:00KT: I don't get it. And even then, isn't it what they call a depreciating asset?

46:05Oti: Because the more you have it and the more you wear it, it loses value or not? Or maybe he just wasn't wearing it and keeping it as a as a NRFB, never removed from box. And you thought I'll never bring your fucking Dexter's Laboratory reference up in here. No. You're welcome. I'm doing my bowels right now.

46:30KT: That is also a reference for my generation too. So, you know, there was a moment, you know, that turn of a coin where Emmett I don't think he's wearing sandals, but he's wearing something that isn't obviously trendy and fashionable. And that was supposed to be the big, oh my god. He cares about something beyond himself. But because I don't fucking know what a guppy peppa pig is, I didn't like, it didn't have that payoff for me. But I guess if you care about shoes,

47:03KT: you know, that would have resonated a bit more. To be honest, I liked him as a character.

47:07Oti: He was light. But before a main character? Yeah. It was a bit off. But at the end of season two, we started seeing that Brandon was starting to take Emmett under his tutelage. Yeah. Which was a big thing. So I I just saw it as a natural progression. Mhmm. If they were to do away with Brandon as the main character, then I think Emmett had the space to come in because he was pretty much set up as next in line

47:36KT: yeah you know what was very confusing to me was he catered the wedding for Keisha and Kevin's mom and also Dre

47:46KT: But he did very badly because I assume that he at least learned a thing or two from Brandon. No. He didn't learn shit. Yeah. And that became clear even with one of his

47:58Oti: child's baby showers. He had to order it.

48:02KT: Yeah.

48:03Oti: I just What is it? What's the American version of delivery?

48:07KT: I think it's Postmates Oh. Which makes no sense. Postmates? It sounds like a delivery man is going to come home and fuck you.

48:15KT: And if that's not what I'm getting as an American experience with an eagle fucking soaring while it's happening It's my dick in a box. You see? Someone fucking hire us for marketing and PR. Yeah. And also HR because we're gonna have problems. But I just don't I don't agree that Emmett would have been the one to, you know, carry the show. And I guess Ronnie kinda carried the show to a certain extent. Because, really, at the heart of it, it was Brandon and Kevin. Those were the main people that I cared about in The Chi.

48:57KT: So, really, the kids, it kinda felt like, you know, we talked about Wallace. We talked about Randy in The Wire. It felt like that new generation.

49:08Oti: Yeah.

49:09KT: And those were the most enjoyable parts of season three, to be perfectly honest. There were. There were so many intersecting storylines in regards to the characters. You know, coming of age, you know, adult life, trying to figure out what it's like to be a dad to four, five kids. Oh, I fucking love Emmett's dad. I I I wouldn't wanna be with him as a companion, but I enjoyed him as a person. I don't think Emmett would ever be as cool as he is, though. No. Not not in a million years.

49:44KT: You know, Emmett walking into Jada and him making out on the couch. But then again, Emmett and Tiffany like, even Tiffany was walking around in her lingerie, and they were fucking on the couch. So I guess that goes back to the Master of None episode where I don't understand how couples have relations while their family are under the same roof. Mhmm. Like, I don't fucking get it. But, yeah, Emmett has kind of become the center of The Chi, and I guess we'll see whether that becomes the case for season four.

50:19KT: But we have Jada. I don't care for the relationship that Jada had with Ronnie. Yeah. I think it was just a way to tie in emotional attachment we might have. I really like Jada. I think she was great. You know, she also went on a couple of I I don't know if you would call it dates, but she she went with one of her coworkers to their family sort of gathering, And I thought something would eventuate out of that. But I I really like Jada as a character.

50:53KT: I just felt like she's kind of thrust into every sort of facet that she needs to be into. I do like that she became sort of support for Keisha, and I definitely wanna make sure that we have time to talk about Keisha as well. But, yeah, that that's my bit about Jada. What do you wanna say about Sunny?

51:12Oti: Not much. I'll just add this to Jada as well. It's a lot of her writing frustrated me because she's supposed to be this really held up woman. Yeah. And then she would start saying some random comments that's really off brand, like starting to celebrate another person's the guy

51:31KT: Oh, yes.

51:31Oti: Guy she was for something dying. Celebrating that she's dead or some shit. It was like, this isn't fucking Jada. I think it went nowhere. Yeah. It went nowhere.

51:41Oti: Ridiculous.

51:42KT: I guess the only thing I wanted to say about Sunny is how easy Emmett was able to get the acquisition or at least the promise from Lil Rel that he would get, you know, Sunny's place. Yeah. I just felt like that that it kind of fell into place a bit too easily. But, again, if Emmett is our hero in this story, maybe that makes sense. I guess just rounding off Emmett's character, we have Tiffany, and we also have Dominique La La.

52:12KT: It's it's a natural reaction to hearing La La to this name. I feel like we should just have that on the soundboard because that's an immediate reaction when I say La La.

52:25Oti: Well, Tiffany, bloody hell. She's she needs a medal for keeping up with Emmett. Like, bloody hell. She's been through a lot. Yeah. She tries too far to get a little bit of child support Yeah. You know, which doesn't really come that regularly. And then she ends up getting preggers as well. So it was just one thing after another going wrong.

52:48KT: I I would say that I would give credit to the show because, you know, they have a very casual discussion about abortion without it feeling traumatic. And, again, we need to talk about Keisha. But in regards to Tiffany, she mentioned that they just couldn't handle another baby at this time. So I do like that they it's it's fucking sad in 2020 that I need to say it. It wasn't placed on a month mantle place. Thank you.

53:17Oti: Thank you, sir. I I I get that. I see that. And for La La man, she just swooped in into something else. Her name's Dominique.

53:25KT: Separate the actress from the role.

53:32Oti: Impossible. I feel like she just when she left Power Yeah. She just brought a fucking character into the show. Chased nothing. Oh my god. I just couldn't handle that. I just cringed every scene she was in. Are you sure? Because it looked different to me. It covers the territory.

53:54KT: Do you think that him fucking Dom will ever come to light? Of course. Of course. Tiffany has to find out. Because there was the card reading. Unfortunately, Whoopi Goldberg wasn't there, so it wasn't as fun. But there was the card reading, and there was talks about Emmett potentially cheating again. That's a very specific I don't know what the tarot deck looks like. If if these powers do work, they definitely work through way of Emmett. Mhmm. They got him down to a tarot.

54:28Oti: Oh, wow. Oh.

54:30KT: If you'll pardon the card. So I I guess do do you think that would that would be enough to tear them apart?

54:39Oti: Probably. I think that once Tiffany finds out, she'll probably leave after that. Because we're seeing Emmett trying to cover everything up and even proposing Mhmm. Just because he feels guilty.

54:52KT: Do you want that though? Is that what you really want, friends and lovers? No, man. Okay. Let's move on to the younger generation in The Chi. I wanna talk about Kevin, Jake, and Papa. But, obviously, they have their own proximity characters. With Kevin, we have Keisha, who is her own sort of section, Nina, who's the mom, and then I have Dre slash Karen because I'm that fucking petty.

55:22Oti: Oh, man. Kevin is a solid character. Oh, absolutely. We get introduced to him. He's super innocent. He he doesn't want to do anything bad per se. So we kinda resonate with him really quickly to follow his journey through everything bad that he's gone through, which is a lot for any kid. Too much. Too much. Yeah. Some might say. Like, it's he gets bombarded with a lot. Not only from shooting Ronnie Yeah. To witnessing people getting killed, to the sister being kidnapped,

55:57Oti: to everything lying on his feet to the I can't even mention everything that he's have to he he's had to go through. Yeah. You know, a lot of the times we talk about characters becoming the emotional dump truck.

56:10KT: Danny Sofer in The Shield. If you've watched The Shield, you know exactly what we're talking about. I'm sure all of our literary learned friends and lovers will enlighten us to the correct term. But, you know, sometimes there are characters where when you need emotional trauma, you just fucking dump it on them. Mhmm. And for him to be a kid to have an adult chasing him to tie his loose ends because he shot another kid Mhmm. At what point at what point do you just throw away this fucking character? Right? But Kevin

56:47KT: went through a lot. You know, he he went into therapy, but, obviously, there was that initial aversion to it. And he kind of found his healing through his support networks, family, and mostly his friends, which I guess is true to a lot of people.

57:07KT: As much as there is professional help, people feel more comfortable healing through people they know. Yep. Obviously, not the most effective, but it's the most understandable as well. Kevin has been through a lot in the show, whether it's through him, whether it's inadvertently around him. And for him to be okay with Ronnie saving Keisha, like, he's okay. He's entitled to his feelings on not liking Ronnie. Yep. But he had to deal with it because he saved Keisha.

57:42KT: I don't think that was fair. And, again, you know, if you're gonna throw all of the baby out with all of the bath waters, why did you keep that?

57:52Oti: Yeah. It was crazy.

57:55KT: But I I do like that Kevin has Jake, and he also has Papa. Not just because he has friends, but also because they're so different, and they offer a lot. You know, Jake, you you see a lot, especially when, you know, Reg was around. He was brought up in a very, you know, tough sort of upbringing. Yeah. And, you know, you you can't be soft, and you have to be on guard at all points. Papa is a lot more different. He is very religious. And, unfortunately,

58:29KT: I guess, his case, in some case, not all case, he was a bit jump judgmental and very naive in the way that the world worked without having, you know, a true semblance of how the world actually worked. But sometimes it's nice to, you know, take some steps away from reality even if it is religion.

58:48Oti: True. Sometimes it helps.

58:50KT: So I I'm really glad that Kevin got that. We see later on in season three, you know, Kevin has a girlfriend, and I I do feel like, you know, it's very similar to Brandon and Jerrika, the the differences and experiences that Kevin has with this girl. Yeah. Because her dad is pretty much very well connected. But let's move within, you know, Kevin's sort of sphere. Let's talk about Keisha.

59:17Oti: She we didn't really focus on Keisha a a lot in the past two seasons, and then bam, shebam in season three.

59:28KT: Yeah. Keisha is the center of everything. There's many bam, she bams that come in season three. And I'm I'm definitely talking about Dre's strap on.

59:38Oti: And it's just one of those things that you wonder. Oh, she she dresses a certain way and apparently that was enough to get her kidnapped.

59:45KT: Oh, I hate that. That how do you feel about the storyline where they talked about a Finsta account? Again, this is showing my age. Tom was my only friend on the social spaces. But, you know, there was a lot of focus on how she chose to embrace herself and her body. How did you feel about that? Because, again, we're not writing in a utopian idealistic sort of world, and we definitely still live in a world of sex shaming, unfortunately. So it is it is unfortunately true

60:30KT: to the world. But how did you feel about that particular storyline?

60:34Oti: That was just I think it it spoke to us on a on a humanistic level on what happens actually.

60:42Oti: But it doesn't fucking matter what she was doing. It doesn't matter what she was doing, but that's how society is. They will look at everything to make it seem like, oh, yeah. She deserves that. She has that coming. Look at what she was posting. She was probably asking for it. You know? That kind of mentality, and it's so rife in our society at the moment. Yeah. You're right. We're calling it out for what it is. I think it's one of the better ways of just showing how ugly the other side of the thing is.

61:08KT: It's a tough one because you can create a fucking Tim Allen show and not really dive into anything deep. Yes. I'm calling out Tim Allen. Please don't do month starting has some excellent

61:24Oti: excellent stuff in there. Okay.

61:29KT: Tune in friends and lovers to Oti's only podcast because I will not be featuring at all. Please don't give me producer credits. But, you know, there there are shows that are just there to be mindless drivel, which isn't necessarily derogatory because we need that. Right? After a hard fucking day, you don't wanna be watching something that is so heavy. Right? Even though it is more nourishment to the soul and our humanity as a people. Right? Yeah. So there are shows that are just there to watch. But a lot of the time, especially recently,

62:08KT: people are becoming more conscious of our plight and and and our experiences and wanting to speak to that, not shying away from the conversations that your family don't wanna speak about at dinner table conversations. Conversations. Right? And there is that need for that I guess you wanna call it wokeness, but whatever it is. Right? There is definitely a way to do it. I thought that we were going down the sex trafficking sort of route in regards to Keisha being abducted.

62:42KT: I do feel like it was a bit unfortunate, and it was definitely a missed opportunity that it ended up being just some random man thinking it was someone that looked like you know, his crush that didn't like her didn't like him, and she dressed provocatively, and he needed to save her. Yeah. So it became very personal to the story, but also a bigger message to be heard. Yeah. Absolutely. Because they talked to you know, there there was the vigil. There was that man that they were chasing down. Ronnie was chasing down specifically,

63:17KT: and we thought it was going to be a part of a bigger story. Went into the house and we saw we saw Trigg and Imani. Yeah. And, you know, we love we love that there's been an introduction of LGBT stories in The Chi. It is unfortunate that it does feel a bit out of the blue. There is a way to do it, but specifically in that perfect example that you brought up, Trigg and Imani found themselves there, but Keisha wasn't there. Right? And Imani makes a very heartfelt speech about

63:52KT: we need to do more. We can't leave them here. And then they fucking leave. Yeah.

63:59Oti: It's not our problem.

64:01KT: I don't know if it was a matter of time constrictions or whatever it is because they were talking about, like, Shameless and Black Monday in particular with Showtime not being able to deliver stuff within, you know, 2020. So, you know, The Chi had to maneuver and manipulate. But I don't know. At what point do we stop giving fucking graces to behind the scenes and we just get to enjoy what's in front of us? Mhmm. Because there are so many ways to be able to address that.

64:33KT: And, you know, you really there's really an opportunity to do that. And I don't think it was done very well in this. And this is going to be a bit triggering, so feel free to skip ahead a couple of or just a minute. I wanna talk about Keisha's decision to want to keep the baby.

64:54Oti: I don't know. I feel like, you know, it's a choice. And if she feels that that's right for her, she holds the power on me. Like, I didn't hold any sort of opinion on that in terms of whether she should keep it or not. It's solely up to her. Most of the people would not, but if she does see the merit or she does see or she feels that she really

65:19Oti: wants to keep it, then, you know, there are other options available to her. It's not like she was restricted to, oh, you can't do this because of our beliefs. The parents were quite open and we have options, but at the end of the day, I feel like it's her body and she just has the right to choose what she wants to do with it or not.

65:41KT: I very minisculely agree with you. However, it is very much to what we were saying earlier when she was being slut shamed about her having a separate account that was a bit more racy and her embracing herself even though she was underage. But again, I'm not for slut shaming. I'm not for sex shaming. And what I will say on this very, very briefly, I am sick of the narrative of shaming women and keeping the baby is more important than abortion because abortion is the devil, and you're the devil if you do that. And

66:27KT: I'm sorry if it's 8AM and you are listening to this podcast, but this is important to have. Right? I'm glad that we have Borat 2 where we can giggle gaggle, but also at the same time, they do tackle abortion and, you know, how whether it's cultural, whether it's religious, or whether it's societal, it doesn't matter what the circumstance is. It doesn't matter how traumatic the experience was to you or will continue to be for your child. You need to keep it no questions asked. And

66:58KT: I think we are past that point. We are past that point where we have storylines like that, and we need to care more about the people. Yep. So I have a lot more to say, but for this episode, I guess that's as much as I will say, you know, women have our own strength. We have our own strength, and we can embrace it. Let's move on to Jake. Jake has a lot of characters, but I'm pretty sure we can intersect all of them. We have Reg, rest in peace, the character.

67:35KT: We also have Trigg and Imani. We have Douda, and we also have Kandi Burruss playing Douda's wife, Rosalynn.

67:45Oti: So he Jake's older brother. We can see he cares about Jake in his own way. Yeah. You know? But I like that Reg kept him up to date on what he needed to do to not get himself in trouble. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He became really likable. At the start, we just thought he was being a dickhead, but we saw the dickheadness came with a bit of caring, you know, and fair

68:10Oti: enough, he became a fan favorite by the second season. Yeah. So having to do away with Reg and not no explanation as to, you know, apparently, Q, Douda, sent word to get shot or whatever. They're all interchangeable, unfortunately. Yeah. I don't know. I just felt like there was just a gap left because in as much as I love Trigg and Imani, Reg just brought something different to the table.

68:33KT: Well, we already had that emotional investment. So as much as we love Trigg and Imani's story, it didn't change the fact that we don't know who they are.

68:42Oti: Yeah. And I think later, I found out that act that actual storyline was meant to be for Reg anyway. You're like, it doesn't make any sense.

68:51KT: Well, it kinda makes sense, and that's unfortunate that we need to be we need to give graces as an audience as opposed to it just feeling natural. Yeah. I guess if we're going to be a little bit nitpicky, I don't understand how Trigg started kind of working on the Douda. That didn't make any sense to me. It was nice to see Jake navigate the world of private school and the affluent sort of society without caring about it, like Kevin, for example. I I do love Imani as a character.

69:31KT: It's interesting to see more of her backstory, and she talks about what she went through through her journey. And also seeing what the family dynamic's going to be between Trigg, Imani, and also Jake. Yeah. I think it's gonna be very interesting moving forward. The only other thing I'll say about Douda was it was funny to see his little fights with his mom, and his mom would side with Lena Waithe's character, Camille. And as soon as Douda's mom did that, Douda was talking about how important it is to fund mental health services

70:08KT: to the mom. Just fucking petty. That's the delicious kind of petty we love in the For Your Reference household. Let's finish off with Papa.

70:17Oti: Oh, man. An old soul he is.

70:21KT: Yeah. He's I suppose.

70:25Oti: He's fun. He he brings a bit of levity to the friends.

70:33KT: I guess the most interesting thing about Papa is his dynamic with his dad and how that starts to become challenged I guess the first sort of instance of that is when he sees him and Camille exchange hands with money And we start to realize because his dad even goes to jail as well. He gets arrested. Yeah. So we start to see that perhaps that righteous sort of veneer that he had, you know, seen through his dad is starting to dissipate. Mhmm. As real world issues, real world greed starts to come to light and potentially he's money laundering. Mhmm.

71:05KT: So it's going to be interesting to see how that dynamic between Papa and his dad, you know, starts to play out in the series. Alright, friends and lovers. So there you have it. A lot of feelings. Some very positive, some very real, and definitely some very negative in regards to this show. But thank you so much for joining us

71:30KT: on another journey in the For Your household. Oti, is there anything you wanna add before we get to the next segment? No. Alright. So let's finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference. Oti.

71:44Oti: If you wanna catch Lena's more fun sort of show, it's Twenties. It's really really really ridiculously nice that you'd even wonder what the fuck you did spending watching season three. Get on it.

71:55KT: Condola from Insecure is also in Twenties.

71:59Oti: She is.

72:01KT: And I would like to reference two, Oti, if I may be so kind. Uh-huh. Snowfall. We do have an episode, rest in love and peace and power, John Singleton. And also American Gods. Make sure you catch it before it spoils.

72:17Oti: Mhmm.

72:18KT: Alright. If you wanna continue to spoil us on Twitter and Instagram, we are at ForYourRefPod. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on Apple Podcasts if you like to leave us a rating review, and we'll see you in the next episode.

72:32Oti: See you. Bye.