Kin – Gangs of Dublin

Full transcript of Kin – Gangs of Dublin.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household. And guess what, Oti? This is our first written, produced, directed set in Ireland. Oh. Wow, friends and lovers. Noted off your scorecards. Let's get on with the show. Friends and lovers, welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. We host KT.

0:00Oti: And Oti.

0:00KT: Keep an eye out and amass riches until the game comes to collect, motherfucker. This week, we infiltrate Gangs of Dublin, Kin. Woo hoo hoo. Let's get into the general stats and information. Like we mentioned in the cold open,

1:07KT: this is an Irish TV series that premiered in September 2021. RTE in Ireland, AMC in The US slash Canada, created by Peter McKenna, who according to Don Cheadle's Al-G Rhythm Internet tells me is an Australian football rules player. And Ciaran Donnelly, who famously, most notably has directed on Vikings, the Titanic series, The Tudors, as well as Camelot.

1:38Oti: Oh.

1:39KT: Right? In way of cast, we have Charlie Cox, Clare Dunne, and the ever eternal

1:45KT: Aidan Gillen.

1:45Oti: Ever eternal, but not in this fucking show. Not in this fucking show.

1:51KT: I don't know if it's offensive because I know McNulty is notably and very loudly Irish in The Wire. And I guess that's a crossover with Aidan Gillen there. But this is super OG back to the Irish motherland TV series. And Oti's kind of given a peek behind the curtain or an open kimono, if you're nasty, of how we possibly feel about this series. This is an eight episode

2:19KT: show, so it does favor well in our household of series that shouldn't go on for too long or seasons rather that shouldn't go on for too long. So it's nice and tight if you're nasty. Apparently, this series was inspired by the Kinahan gang. Yeah. So I guess it will be interesting if we see a documentary about it, might be better than this show. Uh-oh. Or they were just fucking dickheads and idiots.

2:43Oti: Stupid. And sorry. You're getting into first impressions before you introduced it.

2:43KT: Well, let's let's get in, my love. First

2:53KT: impressions, how did you feel? Because I have a lot that I wanna say generally about TV shows that center around the drug game. But I guess just generally, first impressions, you're the one that introduced this show. So how did you come across it for us to even watch it? And just generally, how did you feel about it? Spoiler spoiler spoiler or Splooshies, Splooshies, Splooshies. You know how this goes, friends and lovers.

2:53Oti: I just saw this

3:18Oti: on my track list. I was like, oh, it looks cool. I read the description. I thought, alright. This is something we definitely love. You know, we we we love a lot of these sort of storylines and TV shows, and we consume consume a whole lot of that. So I was super excited and keen to see how this would go. Once we got introduced to the first episode,

3:37Oti: albeit it was a slow burn, and I thought there was some semblance of interesting facets that they could explore that would keep me hooked. And I was really interested and eager. And halfway through, I'd already called a few things that would happen. And they did because I expected, okay, it's super fucking obvious, but they will expound on this to set up a show that would be talking about for ages to come. I was really excited about this. But when you told me that he's the guy that directed Camelot, I was like, oh, shit.

4:08Oti: That should have been a telltale sign right there.

4:11KT: To be fair, we found that out after we'd watched the whole season.

4:15Oti: Yeah. Wow.

4:17KT: Is there is there, like, a damp corner of the Internet where you have a Reddit thread about Camelot?

4:22Oti: There should be if there's not

4:25KT: It feels like you've got a lot to say. Is that is that in the universe of Merlin or that's completely different?

4:25Oti: Don't even tarnish Merlin's name with that shit.

4:25KT: I know you love the show Merlin. I know you do.

4:37Oti: Camelot was just its own fucking special weirdness that when you think that casting doesn't mean shit, just watch Camelot because it will make you understand how important it is. You know, the writing can be a shit sometimes, but man, the people that speak it to the wadith makes a lot, a lot of difference.

5:00KT: Friends and lovers, it's a serious note, but it's in a lighter sort of context. Sometimes it's hard to heal from our wounds. And the last episode of Camelot was in 2011, Oti. Ten years later and you're still you're still holding on to that pain. But hey, who am I to tell you when to heal even if it's a TV show? It's interesting that you say it was a slow burn. I think the first episode really set the tone of what the show was going to be. Okay. Which is,

5:31KT: I guess, a recent sort of example would be Squid Game. Right? It started off very strong. And then unfortunately, it never met, let alone deliver what it promised it was going to do based on the setting of the pilot. And that's kind of what happened to this. I wouldn't say the first episode is a slow burn for me. I think it gave us some nice little, you know, juices and trappings of what the show was going to entail. A lot of the characters had a lot of personality, Viking,

6:01KT: for example, and just thinking of it now, maybe his nickname being Viking is, you know, sort of a kudos and a nod to the Viking series. Go and check out two of the episodes we have on Vikings Friends and Lovers. But if you continue to stay here, we're gonna talk about this show, unfortunately. No. I'm We do like this show. We do like this show. I really liked it. I enjoyed it. There was a lot of interesting dialogue and it felt, you know, like we were talking

6:29KT: in our Reference Degustation with Taika Waititi, how everything felt so specific to New Zealand and to his experience as a Maori man in New Zealand. It felt the same way. Like, it felt very succinctly specifically Irish in the first episode in regards to the dialogue and the way the family dynamics were working. However, again, I just I just feel like we only got that good feeling for so long, but I really enjoyed the first episode. I just wanna put it on the record. I really enjoyed the first episode.

7:06KT: I don't think we would have anticipated

7:08Oti: the way that the first season ended based on the way the show started. Zero progression and a lot of fuck ups. I get it. But with everything that they'd laid out for the first episode, I'd really expected more. Yeah. Expected more from the characters, but we just got nothing. Yeah. You know, when when when usually your qualm with TV shows that has super intelligent people is that they need to be dumb sometimes. They need to make stupid mistakes then

7:08KT: Prison Break.

7:08Oti: Mhmm. Mhmm. I thought you'd go for Lupin.

7:40KT: Lupin too. Yeah. And most famously, we don't have it on our main feed. I don't know if we'll ever get around to Lupin, but it got frustrating. But, yes, continue.

7:40Oti: Yeah. And the other side of that coin is to have all the characters

7:54Oti: be stupid and make stupid mistakes all the single time, and then be startled that they're stupid fuck ups have ripple fucking effects. Or even just fucking bear consequences to their actions. Yes. And I'm like, Mate, you literally just did that. What did you fucking expect? Yeah. And it felt like until we met Bren, it didn't make fucking sense how they became Kinsella's, how they became the family. Yes. It did not make sense. Yes. One bit. How did this fucking ease? How is it resting on the shoulders of Frank? How did fucking Aidan Yeah. Yeah. How Yeah. Did Frank become a leader of this group? Yeah. How did How have they sustained their position? Exactly. It did not make one sense at all. It did not make sense at all.

7:54KT: And I guess before we get into the nitty gritty of the show,

8:40KT: one theme I wanted to talk about or I guess conceptually, far be it for us to pull up our monocles on our genitals and call ourselves wankers, but we are well versed and I I guess a lot of us are very well versed in TV shows with solid writing that center on the drug game. Right? Whether it's The Wire, very, very lovely wire. We have like four hours of content on our podcast talking about The Wire, where you have all facets of the drug game being covered. Even more deliciously, we have Snowfall,

9:17KT: which is really the rise of the crack cocaine era in California. 4 Blocks, 4 Blocks where we in Germany, it's being set. And we also see, you know, the way it affects migrants in Germany as well and how there's an element of class in it. Right? We also have Drug King, you know, the daddy of South Korean cinema and screens. That also talks about how the drug game thrived and continued to distribute in South Korea. So we are very well versed. And how dare I? How dare I? How dare my hippos? Narcos is

9:55KT: a great example of solid writing in a TV show about the drug game. This show felt like it sat on a table for ten years without any sort of complexity. We're at a point now where we understand that, first of all, there's a necessity. Unfortunately, there is there is a lot of pain and there is a lot of after effects directly, you know, to drug users. But again, we're talking about how we need to disband some of our

10:25KT: real life personal beliefs in order to enjoy something just like how cheating is very normalized and it's okay apparently in some TV shows and movies. Right? So we have a lot of instances and even Godfather, for example. You can even talk about Sopranos. See how easily it is to rattle off not only TV shows that center the drug game, but also have solid writing. It I don't know if Kin has to bear the burden, but it needs to be conscious of the fact that not only do we have

10:56KT: solid stacked writing of TV shows about drug games, but it also has facets of class. It also has facets of race. It also has facets of, you know, police corruption and brutality. Like, there are so many elements that go into the drug game, and this show felt like they literally could have had any other subject matter. It could have been about boxing or it could have been about hairdressing.

11:24Oti: Mate, Desperate Fucking Housewives, Teri Hatcher felt like had more things going on for her during her her weird adventures and escapades than this fucking family. Fucking hell. Like, I you've mentioned all those shows. And at the base of it, when you're making this kind of show, it's hard because we've

11:44Oti: already all seen it to some degree. But if you're not gonna do it better

11:44KT: Exactly.

11:49Oti: If you're gonna tone it down and I think when we're watching this, I told you, growing up, you know, when we did have money to buy things like cordial or or fucking fresh juice, we'd settle for flavored fucking glucose sachets where we'd have to fucking mix it with water. This felt like that fucking, you know, because we couldn't get cordial or we couldn't get fucking fresh juice, we had to settle for the flavored glucose sachets that went sell sold for, like, 50¢.

12:16KT: Welcome, friends and lovers, to the the For Your Oti Projection podcast, where we cover the pain that he felt from a TV show ten years ago and the the inadequate access to cordial. It's it's it's This is your struggle story this week, my love.

12:36Oti: No. It felt like I'm missing something. You're being deprived. I get it. I understand. I'm like, me. I'm sitting here. The guy's eating caviar on the next fucking table. Yeah. Why am I he he's fucking with my hands down my pants. What for? Yeah.

12:36KT: And we and like, just to go off on a little tangent for

12:55KT: a time, Many Saints of Newark, we haven't watched that yet and we will get around to it. We felt like we needed to rewatch Sopranos to get to the film. But in any case, you know, there are lots of interviews with the creator and, you know, famously over the years, there was talks about what to do with Frank Sopranos' character. I'm not going to spoil Sopranos because unlike Oti, even though it's been ten years, I don't watch shame. But it is nasty, and I do love it. But,

13:25KT: you know, coming to find a way to end the show in a way that wouldn't upset viewers. Because because Tony Soprano, as much as we love him, as much as he had a a certain charm to him, he was a terrible guy. He did terrible things, even Pablo Escobar. But the way that it gets portrayed in a TV show, at least for a time, for most people, you can suspend the criminal sort of activity. Right? And

13:50KT: I just I wasn't I feel like there was only really one or two instances where we saw the people that they were dealing to as well. It kind of felt like a a a faux, like you say, glucose sachet.

14:03Oti: It felt like a privileged gang that that in future, this is what a fucking gang looks like. You know? We'll we'll we'll live in our fucking suburbs. We'll we'll drive our fucking our fucking keys and whatnot, and then we'll not do anything because neither of us made the name Kinsella mean anything. We were born into it. We have our fucking privilege from it for some fucking reason. People still fear us for whatever reason that is, despite the fact that we all know

14:30Oti: crew and shit. Time and time again. Yeah. Where's was anyone testing them? Why are the fucking rat groups there that's trying to test this bloody idiot? But we we don't know. Maybe maybe the temperature

14:42KT: in Ireland is they all just respect people's corners and they don't fight over them. Maybe that's what it is. Gang game is gang game. Yeah. And greed is greed. Right? Exactly. But I don't know. Yeah. It it did feel very patty cake. It felt very amicable. Like, you stay on your side, I stay on my side even though my people are doubting me. Gomorrah is a beautiful example of in Italy, we're going all around the world with drugs.

15:07Oti: Mate, in Gomorrah.

15:09KT: Yeah. They were fucking tested every single time. Yeah. To the point where you're like, Mate, can these guys just have some some time? You know? Yeah. Let them breathe. It's like you're constantly but it's that we we talk about this a lot and Oti always mentions this a lot. You need to be fucking paranoid, especially if you're in the drug game. These guys don't have anything to be worried about. You're not paranoid enough, though. But you're right. If no one's coming for your corners, you don't need to be paranoid. This guy, Frank.

15:36Oti: Man, you know what? I love I love Aidan Gillen. Aidan Gillen. Littlefinger. Yeah. Carcetti. But wow. Yeah. Why did he fucking choose this role? Because For the culture. He did for Irish people. Maybe it's the writing that made him look so fucking ridiculous

15:50Oti: or the act I don't know what the fuck was happening with it. We know he's top tier. We we know he's a top tier. If he tells me that this guy is fucking revered, I'll be like, if I didn't know him If this was the way he was introduced to us, yes. He's fucking Aidan Gillen. He is. The only saving grace was fucking Ciaran Hinds in this for me. Yeah. He

16:09KT: But that's because his character made it so that his acting would be well received. So it's not because it like, I like Aidan Gillen would have given the same sort of performance if his character had Yeah. Yeah. But I I guess, generally, that was my foundational qualm and the first sort of theme that I wanted to talk about because we can't ignore the fact that we've had decades and decades of quality TV and cinema

16:37KT: in regards to the drug game. Whether it's the people dealing, whether it's the people receiving, whether it's the cops, whether it's whatever. Right? We have a richness in this genre. Right? You can even call it like a gangster sort of narrative as well, I suppose. Hairdresser gangsters. Right? The next theme I wanted to talk about was diversity.

17:00Oti: Wow. You're surprising, man. I didn't know there was so many black people in Ireland.

17:04KT: Yeah. And that that disputes your fact. I know I know it's a long gone, and I'm pretty sure I talked about it in our first episode of Black Panther when I was holding the banner for Idris to be James Bond. I know that ship has sailed. I understand that. But that just goes to prove that Idris could go to Ireland and blend in. At least one more country. Yeah.

17:28Oti: Wow. That was good to see. I was super surprised. I don't think we've watched a lot of Ireland shows. Mhmm. So to me, my preconceived ideas was like, yeah. You know, we'll watch Kin. We'll get to see your, you know, token black guy somewhere.

17:40Oti: And that's pretty much it. But wow, every other scene, mate.

17:40KT: Yeah. I think Derry Girls is really the only other Irish show that we've watched. Yeah. This also reminds me of our Reference Degustation with Taika Waititi. We talk about subtitles and we love and sploosh subtitles all the time. Obviously for non English speaking stuff, but also for when they're speaking English and the accents are a bit different. Like Oti trying to understand Korg was also very fun for me. So it was nice to have the subtitles, but they most notably,

18:16KT: they kept calling it bollocks.

18:18Oti: I'm like, what's bollocks?

18:21KT: So so we know enough about the culture a little bit to know that they were writing it wrong, unless they spell it differently in Ireland. I doubt that.

18:29Oti: Wonder what the fuck bollocks is.

18:32KT: Oh, okay. Let's talk about characters. I I guess Frank would be the first one to go to because he is the assumed leader. This show is also called Kin, and I guess it fits the name. Unfortunately, when your Kin is shit, your operation is shit. But I think the name was pretty suited. Do you wanna start off with Frank? Let's give Frank a go.

18:54Oti: When I saw Aidan with this, I was like interested. I was like, yeah, we're gonna get something really good. Mhmm. I love the fact that we we got to be introduced by him by giving commands saying, this is my word. I've said it. That's, you know, my word goes. I'm like, okay. Come on. Bring him home. Command your gang. You know? Him calling out Viking. I'm like, yeah. Give that bitch an earful.

19:21Oti: But wow. Well, this is just all for show from there on. Yeah. He was blowing smoke. Yeah. Yeah. We we got to see him struggle to to contain the actions of the family despite the fact that there's there's been some hardships. You know? Jimmy loses a kid. And

19:37Oti: he knows full well that Michael and Jimmy will try and retaliate. Yeah. He tells him, don't do it. I'll give you a fucking earful if you do it. Don't do it. I'll give you a stern word and a finger point. Yeah. But there was always something weird when I was watching it because I felt like there was a divide.

19:54Oti: There was always Jimmy and Michael being mentioned in one breath. And I was like, why is V in all this? Why is he not being mentioned alongside these other two brothers? Yeah. And we don't come to later find out until later, but I was like, okay. That's interesting. Okay. Where is this going? Because it it seemed like, okay. Yeah. They gave Frank a bit of I don't even know they respect him because at the end of the day

19:54KT: But that's what I

19:54Oti: They do their own shit.

19:54KT: That was exactly what I was going to come to. There's two elements in my

20:21KT: no real world just watching TV experience. There's two facets of being an effective drug kingpin or a gang leader. It's respect, but it's also fear. Yep. No one feared him enough to respect him, and that was the fucking problem. Like V, particularly, he went and he flew off the handle. Even I'm just gonna keep naming other shows that arguably, definitely better than this, but also fit into the tapestry of the drug game. Power, Raising Kanan. We have our ever eternal Mary J. Blige. Right? And her son, Kanan. He kept doing shit that was detrimental

21:01KT: and was in the heat of the moment and perhaps we could argue toxic masculinity just like Viking. Right? And he got handled, but Viking never did. And he never really had to face any sort of consequences. And Frank kind of just let him do it. That was kind of the really frustrating part for me continuing to watch the show is how how is he the leader? How does he keep being the leader and he knows nothing? Like, he had no oversight of what was happening

21:32KT: between his kin. Yeah. Eamon kept on updating him on what's going on with his family. It was embarrassing. Yeah. At what point do you fucking draw the line? Yeah. There has to be some modicum of fucking fear. But he didn't work for the position, and we'll come to Bren in a second. He didn't work for it. He didn't earn it. And I guess as far as we can surmise within the show, we don't know in reality in Ireland. But it seems like no one was going to take your territory. You could just be super shit and no one would come and take your

21:32Oti: Super chill, mate. We're Kinsella's. We're just here chilling.

22:04KT: Bren built the name, so we are walking off his back. They literally had a paper wall defense. If anyone wanted to scoop in, like if Kem wanted to go and scoop in, he definitely could have. It it wasn't great. Also, let me address Frank and a facet of his character. I don't know because we're only just now recording this episode, I'm finding out that purportedly,

22:29KT: was based on the gang, but an insider says you can make up your mind. So it might not even be based on the Kinahan gang. So I don't know if Frank is based on a real person or if they, from a writing perspective, just wrote that he was gay. Right? I have I take qualm.

22:29Oti: Oh, why is that?

22:29KT: Well, I'm fucking fortunately, but surprised to nobody, as part of, like, being a gang leader, there's so much like homophobic toxic masculinity. You see that from Viking as well in the first episode. Right? And

22:59KT: just by default, even if it's just straight cis white men, like it's just gonna happen anyway. Right?

23:05KT: And the I guess part of the problem I had is because he was a weak leader. Right? Yeah. So he's he was a weak leader and whether he was inspired by, but they're not really owning it. So they decided for Frank's character to be gay. His sexuality was used as a stick to beat together because of his And it kind of it it kind of reminds me of, like, really early introductions to gay characters that fall in love and they tragically have to die. Like, it's not fair. Like, let's stop doing that. Penmanship can be much stronger

23:32KT: than that. It can be more multifaceted than that. It wasn't just that he was a weak leader. Exactly what you're saying. It was he's weak because he's gay. Right? And obviously, there's a lot of, like, you know, cock sucking insults and that sort of thing. And it's like and then, like, from a writing point of view, does that mean it's justified because he's not a great leader? It's obviously not, but I guess that's the world in which has been set up.

23:32Oti: Yeah. It was it was I I understood

23:59Oti: your qualm with it. And I thought, yeah. Like, the way they wrote Frank's character in this, I thought he didn't really need to be or every single opportunity that they had to explain or someone said how inadequate he was as a leader. His sexuality

24:17Oti: always came into it being a factor.

24:17KT: If it wasn't the start of the sentence, it was the middle of the sentence, or it was the end of the sentence? It was every single opportunity. Like, you couldn't miss it.

24:26Oti: Yeah. Fuck that shit, man. Like I said, if this was the gang of the future, their fucking values are still way behind. You know? So I'm I'm here sitting thinking of Frank, the character. His sexuality didn't play a parting noir thing. He was weak. He was just fucking stupid. He was lazy ass. Yeah. Bren knew as much.

24:26KT: But if if we have if we as an audience

24:49KT: can can acknowledge his sexuality and him being weak as a leader and not merging the two, why does the writing have to do that? It was the lowest hanging fruit shit that he could do. Is it the fructose that is in your sachets or not?

24:49Oti: Oh, not even, man.

25:04Oti: Those didn't hang on the tree. Those already fallen on the ground, mate.

25:10KT: But I just wanted to touch on that because I I will always, you know, be screaming for the rooftops for, you know, more queer characters on screen, but not like this, please. Not like this. Let's move on. Let's talk about Birdie. Friends and lovers, I've mentioned many times on the podcast, I struggle when many characters are introduced to me. And, like, even if they don't look or sound the same at all, like, I struggle to place characters and understand who they are. I say don't, like, spoon feed me

25:46KT: from a writing point of view. But usually, like, in films, like heist films, where they have the names come up on the screen, that actually helps me.

25:56Oti: That's for you.

25:58KT: So I actually struggled trying to figure out which character is who, and I understood that there were a family, but I didn't know if people were fucking or if they were they were a product of the fucking. Like, I didn't understand who was who, which is on me. But I got to the end of eight episodes and I was still struggling to figure out names, so I think it's on them at that point. But I love Birdie. I love love love Birdie.

26:24KT: We're going to get to Amanda. I think we should leave it till last, but we're going to get to Amanda. But what I love about Birdie is she understood the assignment. She understood the world that was being navigated and she understood that at any point in time, not challenged in this show, but at any point in time, your place, your position, your power could be taken from you. Yep. And she knew that she needed to keep things in line.

26:52Oti: Yeah. She did know that. You you could tell that she grew up with the family, you know, when they're probably still fighting for power. I mean, getting their name to be so widely known as it is now. Mhmm. And she had that, you know, okay. I understand. I understand how the thing how things are done. Yep. If you're gonna make a move, you better expect repercussions because she wasn't surprised by any of it. Nope. Even when Viking had to go to jail, she was like, mate, what did you expect? Yeah. We live this life. You always live with the possibility that someone's gonna go to jail for a very long time. Yeah. At the drop of a hat. Yep. You know, it's not a shock. You're fucking in the business. You're the game. She was a Tata. Yeah.

27:32Oti: That's a Narcos reference. And and I just I loved her. I I wanted to understand why she

27:38Oti: wasn't leading the gang though.

27:38KT: Well, we we come to that. And I guess because we are talking about Birdie, we can come to it. I loved it. I loved it. You know, like you mentioned with your Desperate Housewives or even that is it called Weeds with that suburban mom? Like, if I wanted to watch a show of people haphazardly trying to figure out how to deal drugs, then that's not necessarily my jive. Like, is it too much of me to ask to have a theatrical, all enthralling, you know, action filled and and and fully

28:16KT: engrossing, like, drug game TV show? Like, is that too much to ask? Like, I wanna see people at the top of their game. I wanna see people that if they topple, they deserve to be toppled. I don't want these amateurs coming in, trying to do it, succeeding, and then not knowing what to do about it. And that's why I really like Birdie.

28:37KT: And I guess coming to that, we meet Bren very I think it was the last episode, was it not? We meet Bren, I don't I don't know. And maybe it was, maybe I just missed it in the dialogue. I feel like it wasn't really noted that there was a bigger higher power or hierarchy within the Kinsella family. But if there was, we finally meet Bren. And like you said at the start of the episode, it made so much sense that this is how they rose to eminence. This is how they rose to notoriety,

29:08KT: why people were shaking in their boots whenever they heard the Kinsella name. Yep. But unfortunately, because of Frank, it's all being undone. And we hear it from Bren's mouth that he didn't want to disrespect Frank even though he knew But it would have been a better fit. He knew at the time that Frank couldn't deliver, but again, toxic masculinity. He had to give it to Frank for what reason? He didn't prove himself at all. And we had the qualified more well than ready woman ready to lead, but unfortunately,

29:44KT: it wasn't her time and perhaps it is now. Yeah.

29:48Oti: I think that window is probably gone with everything that has gone on with the show. But I really appreciated her that she knew what to do and everyone sought her opinion on things. Yeah. When when she sat down with Frank or or Viking

30:04Oti: or even Michael, you know, they all listened. Yeah. And that comes down to fucking respect. If if Birdie was really at the helm, I don't think any of this shit happens. No. Absolutely not. You know one of the qualms that I had with this though on a on a more general notice Uh-huh. They were so fucking content.

30:20Oti: Yes. What what gang is so fucking content and so fucking complacent? So you said no one was coming for their territory, so maybe that's why. They don't wanna grow. Eamon was just taking it out and using them as fucking sex dolls at this point. Yeah. Like, far out. Yeah. They had no say. They were just, oh, as long as you're making a million out of every 50,000,000 we're getting, Eamon. And then even when Frank was speaking about what they need to do for Eamon. Yeah. We'll make Eamon so fucking rich,

30:50Oti: he will never look at us like he could be irreplaceable. I'm like, It's like you're shaking for your voice. What gang is this? Yeah. You named it your fucking kin as a player of vodka with a fucking Kinsella.

31:01Oti: And then what? For you to be so fucking subservient to fucking Eamon? Yeah. Let's make fucking Eamon so much money to know that we're not replaceable? But that's Frank. Like, Frank doesn't wanna make waves. He wants to just sustain and be content like you said. We watched Snowfall, A kid who just fucking dropped out of bloody high school Mhmm. With so much fucking father and ambition and gusto. Yep. He was climbing that ladder, mate. Yeah. It's weird watching a gang show where people were just like, like, we we should have recorded them when Bren was still leader and not now. Yeah. But that's that's just it. Right?

31:34KT: Because maybe it gets boring from a writing point of view to have successful drug lords, but it's boring for us to see people fucking struggle and do nothing. I'll just go to the office, ain't you? Just going to the the Then work at a media conglomerate then. Oh, bloody hell. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. But that's what I'm saying. It literally could have been about anything else, but because it's part of the drug game genre, it it unfortunately

32:02KT: pales in comparison with all of the offerings that we've mentioned throughout this podcast.

32:02Oti: You know what it is? You mentioned this while we're watching. It's like Shiv, Kendall, and fucking Roy leading a gang Yep. A drug gang because of what the father had done previously.

32:02KT: I didn't say Shiv. I said Kendall only.

32:18KT: Nice nice try. Your first pancake? Oh, wow. Oh

32:25Oti: my god. Actually, Frank is so fucking corn at this point. He is corn. Oh, dear lord. It's like those guys being given the keys to the castle, which they don't fucking deserve. And then it won't But it's in a more dangerous situation Yeah. Where there's no fucking succession. Like, it's it's ridiculous.

32:48KT: It is. And I think the reason why I feel confident in saying what I'm saying is because we're not just talking about American TV shows, we're talking about shows in Germany, in Spain, in Italy. Like, we're talking about so many shows in South Korea. Like, we're talking about settings in in countries all around the world that have the very similar themes of needing to control your territory

33:17KT: and having a sense of ambition. So that's why I don't think it's too out of turn to want to expect it from a show like this. Maybe they weren't ambitious. Right? We don't all need to be the Stringer Bells of the world or the Franklin Saints of the world. Right? So maybe they were fine keeping it, but they didn't even seem to want to protect what they currently had. And again, maybe that's just because they're so used to, they're so entitled to having it, they can't imagine a scenario

33:44KT: through fault of their own that they lose it. Yeah. And I guess that was part of the problem. But Birdie is the OG, a n, she ain't playing. Go and watch Succession friends and lovers. We will be covering it very, very shortly.

33:59Oti: Alright. So in regards to the three Buffets, who do you wanna cover first? Let's cover Michael. Alright. He's he's he's been released from jail. He wants to see his kid. Fair enough. You can understand that at a base level. Yep. But considering all the circumstances, because I was like, why are they telling him not to see his kid? Yeah.

34:17Oti: And then we were like, did he fucking kill the mom or some shit? Yeah. That turned out to be true. Yep. Because we were able to guess pretty much everything that was gonna go on in this show. Yep. And think that's also another problem, but we'll get back to it later. Just because we see something coming doesn't necessarily make sense.

34:17KT: See everything coming though? We've seen the demise of very many beloved characters,

34:40KT: Oti. So I don't I personally, me personally, OT Sashay personally, I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing from a writing point of view or from a viewing experience, but continue my love. Yeah. So I

34:54Oti: was like, okay, oh fuck, you need to stay away from this kid or give us some space. Let her be the one to reach out, you know? And you can still understand at the start why he was so insistent because maybe he felt he changed in the ten years he was in prison. You thought, okay, you've got your shit down. You want to be out of the family game.

35:11Oti: But a lot of this stuff happen around him. Mhmm. And he gets pulled in back so quickly and easily. Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in. And I was like, okay, cool. But if you go back to this. You're in. You're in. And just let your dollar be me. Yeah. But of course he wanted his cake and to eat it too.

35:11KT: Let's talk about one thing. And I I do wanna make it clear even though we know what we're talking about. We're talking about a TV show. We're talking about a TV show. We're talking about a TV character. Addiction is a motherfucker. Right? And the circumstances

35:44KT: in which he killed his his wife or his partner, I'm not sure if they were married, that is so tragic. But that circumstance specifically, wouldn't that make you want to leave your daughter alone and let her live a life? Because it wasn't as if it was a car crash or it was a different sort of circumstance where you weren't a 100% to blame. Unfortunately, he was high, so he probably didn't have his full faculties about him. However, the tragicness and the sadness

36:16KT: and the fact that anytime she would think about her father, she would think about the fact that he killed her. Isn't that enough to just leave her alone? Yeah. Let people fucking heal, man. Well, let her be bloody old enough. Let her be 18 or some shit and let her reach out by herself. But when we went back and forth, I literally said it before she did. You can't just fucking go into her life, show her the possibility

36:40KT: and what it's like to potentially have a father's love and then decide, oh no, it's not safe anymore. You already opened the door of hope.

36:49Oti: Yep. You you don't get to check out. Selfish. You don't get to check out whatever the fucking You knew it was gonna be dangerous to involve her, especially with everything going on. Though they had bounties on their fucking head, and they still decided, oh, wait. They're not gonna shoot a shoot a grandma at church on Sunday. Let me go meet up with my kid. Yeah. You know what? You pissed off the wrong fucking guy. Yep. They're gonna shoot the fucking head off.

37:13Oti: And for you to hold down and be like, oh, no. I don't wanna see you anymore. It's too dangerous. You knew it was dangerous from the start. Yeah.

37:13KT: No. Like, no information

37:22KT: had changed or been presented to you. You had all of the information and you made the choice that you made. Like, was so stupid.

37:30Oti: I just don't understand.

37:32KT: But they weren't even like

37:34Oti: sometimes you need to be stupid to save the ones that you love. No. They were just like out of the packet, no instructions, no battery attached stupid. Yeah. It felt like people who didn't know what to do. They didn't know their life. Stay out of They the didn't grow up in their life and they'll just the fact that Michael is the one that's regarded as the fucking magician because he's fucking killed, I think tells you all you need to know.

37:34KT: But that's the

37:58KT: Power, Raising Kanan. The streets need a body.

38:01Oti: Yay yay. It just felt so bloody diluted Yeah. With stupidity Yeah. People not thinking. That them things called consequences in fucking life. Anna deserved more. You know who else deserved more?

38:15KT: Jimmy. So let's finish off Michael and we'll go to Jimmy. So the I don't well, you can you can comment on this or not. I don't know I feel like it would have been better if they had presented the timeline of the two brothers and Amanda better. But however they chose to lay it out is how they did. It wasn't enough to, you know, make it hard to keep up with the show. But there was always the constant questioning of what the fuck is going on in this relationship.

38:45KT: Initially, we thought that it was Michael and Amanda that had a secret thing. And then publicly

38:50Oti: Michael went to jail and London to Yeah. Be

38:53KT: That's what we thought. No. No. No. No. No, friends and lovers. That's not Amanda is fucking messy, man. Forget your Love Islands. Forget your Bachelors. Forget whatever.

39:04KT: She's the messiest bitch I've ever met in my life. So the way that I understand now that we're at the end of the show, Amanda was always with Jimmy. Yep. Jimmy had a stint in jail. Michael swooped on in. They had a baby. Michael went to jail, and then Jimmy came out. Not sure that's the correct sequence or that's pretty much it. Yeah. They're always a Jimmy. She was always a Jimmy. And for whatever reason, they fucked about with Michael, got pregnant, and man,

39:34Oti: the scene of Jimmy asking Michael. Sad. What did he just tell me? Of course, I'd be fucking upset. I would have raged. But I would have gotten over it. And I would have been happier now with someone else. Yeah. And that tells you everything you need to know about this fucking show. Yeah. Everyone is so fucking

39:52Oti: Are they stupid or are they selfish or are they both? Selfish is stupid. Even Michael, the one who is supposed to think is has a some sort of level head and has some fucking he thinks about his fucking ideas a bit. Very initially. He's he's crap. At the at the end of it, was like fucking a mind that Marco can get in the bin. Yeah. They should call it bin sellers. Yeah. Change the kit. Fruity from kin to bin because everyone in there was living in the fucking bin.

40:19KT: Oh my god. But I love Jimmy. I love Jimmy so much. And I talked a lot about toxic masculinity. He was always so vulnerable and he was always so open with Amanda. Yeah. And and I knew He he's like he's like, if if if we could talk about cuckolders with with passion and emotion and they deserve love and attention, that's Jimmy.

40:42Oti: You know what? Here's Omar. He's fucking open with his feelings. You know? He's a rich he's he's he can be ruthless in the street. Yeah. But when he comes home, he expects that tender loving. Mhmm. He wants to be heard to be loved and to be to to have his feelings heard. Yeah. But to be met by a fucking stalker woman who doesn't fucking reciprocate any of that? Yeah. How many times do you count that Jimmy said, I love you? That was met with fucking dead silence

41:09Oti: Yeah. All throughout. Don't even fucking fake it. No. Nada.

41:14KT: But I guess that it's like, can't choose who you love. Right? And because why would he continue to keep putting himself through that if for the fact that he didn't love

41:26Oti: He thought there was an option. He thought he didn't know. No. I think he's accepted it for a long time. No. He he asked he told Michael, if you told me that you loved Amanda and she loved you back, mate, don't blame me for a fool. She just thought it was some, you know, romantic sort of, you know, loins hot shit. Yeah. I don't know what you call it now. But it felt it felt very

41:49Oti: it made me feel for Jimmy so much. He's my favorite character in this. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. And every decision the fucking Amanda makes, oh, I want Michael to give the eulogy. I'm like,

42:02KT: who are you to even open your mouth, you fucking bitch?

42:07Oti: She's a fucking bitch. You know? I'm I'm women for women, but she's a fucking bitch. You told me that all along through some of the series that I have a problem with women characters. You don't like women. I've never felt fucking justified more than any fucking show. Woah. Oh, Jesus.

42:29KT: Oh, bloody hell. Well, I do agree with you, so I don't think I can dispute

42:35Oti: Oh, tongue in cheek though.

42:39KT: I think tongue in the other cheeks, it seems. Let's talk about Amanda. We've been pussyfooting around her, but we might as well confront her directly. Friends and lovers, we did say go and watch Succession. We have referenced Succession. I'm not gonna spoil anything. It's quite clear even from the trailer. Kendall Roy in particular, I had a fundamental qualm with him and he hasn't come into any sort of character development from my point of view. And what I mean by that is and I guess I'll relate it to Amanda. Amanda is embedded in a very powerful organization.

43:16KT: Let's just say, it's a family, but in any case, she's embedded in a very powerful organization. She has it in her mind that she wants to overthrow the powers that be outside of her organization and also within her organization. She also feels like her shit don't stank so she can go away from the reporting lines and do whatever the fuck she wants. Right? Fine. Cool. Yeah. But once she gets to where she gets to, she can't handle it. Then fuck right off then. Live your happy cushy life at the car dealership

43:50KT: where you're washing the money and keep your mouth shut and that's it. Like you literally could live for the rest of your life without anything. It's the pretentiousness, it's the illusion that she's not doing anything wrong. And then it's her deciding to Walter White herself without even realizing when you do some big man things, the big man comes after you. Like, that's that's the fundamental qualm that I had with Amanda.

44:16KT: Because she she was doing these, you know, big man things, but she didn't realize people were going to come back. Like, it's going to come back. You're embedded in the game. This is what it fucking is. It's a it's it's it's it's the it's the trade off. Right? As being a part of this, it's unfucking fortunately sad. But any sort of if I could reference Pacino in Heat, don't have any collateral

44:38KT: because that's where they fucking get you. That's where you have a problem. And they're all fucking collateral because they're all useless and they're all related.

44:46Oti: It felt like work experience day. It felt like fucking work experience day with Amanda.

44:46KT: Not even intern?

44:46Oti: Not even. Okay. Like, where does she get off? She's supposed to be this smart,

44:57Oti: conniving person. Mhmm. I'm I'm yet to even understand where the smart is. I don't see it. They kept on saying she's smart. She's smart. Where is it? And just one second, when the police came to interrogate her at the car dealership, they could obviously see she was pressing. Maybe they didn't know it was a delete button, but like, why did they why were they sitting opposite her is my point. Then again, mate, if you press delete, you've not done shit. What what the fuck do need? You got logs.

45:22Oti: You've cleaned her. Oh, I've deleted the record.

45:26KT: What kind of kind of IT forensics do they have?

45:29Oti: Oh, man.

45:31KT: Oh, anyway. That's They probably have 50¢ as their forensics for IT. Because what the fuck?

45:37Oti: She is she is just a nuisance in this. From from her how she treats Jimmy, you know, even when she was talking when when the kid was still alive Mhmm. She was all this she was very, very hypocritical. Yep. Don't don't be but they keep their business out in the air. They fucking talk about everything. Mhmm. That kid knew everything about the business. Yep. And then you expect this kid to make a different decision from seeing easy money and easy success and say, oh, I'm gonna fucking go to college. Yep. You've shown nothing.

46:10Oti: You've given him nothing to make that decision. Mhmm. You you pretend to say, oh, this is not what we want for you. But, man, you don't hide shit from him. Yeah. He knows who the family is. He knows everything you do. You talk openly about that shit. Yep. And then you expect him, you wonder, and you even go to the fucking extent of blaming you, Jimmy Yep. Because the kid wants in on the game. And then when the kid dies, you still blame Jimmy because because he said you can go and fucking meet Michael Yep. Who is the actual fucking father? Yep. Oh, hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. You

46:44Oti: know, I I've never watched a show and just felt so frustrated at every single turn by a character. I think she just decided to unofficially make them polygamous because I turned on she had brother husbands.

46:57KT: This is Big Love, mate. It is. Yeah. I'm expecting Jeanne Tripplehorn to fucking appear out of nowhere. Oh, can we? I love and miss Jeanne Tripplehorn. Can we, please? And she played a linguistics expert. What does that tongue do, Tripplehorn?

47:12Oti: No. It'll elevate the bloody show. Yeah. Oh, I think wow. Watching Amanda, mate. Mate. How many times have we been crying we need a strong lead woman in shows and not them fucking subservient shit or some some old

47:29Oti: fashioned shit that we we we see in all other TV shows?

47:29KT: Yep. But now your misogyny is showing, so it's undoing all of it.

47:29Oti: No. I'm saying we've been wanting this. Yeah. Know. I know. Execution is fucking wrong.

47:29KT: Yeah. No. Like, look look for the strong woman in Birdie. Don't look at Amanda.

47:29Oti: Yeah. Amanda's just I don't know, bro. I don't know, bro. We can talk about the population of Ireland, but even the world. There's billions of people. You had you had to, and and you were compelled.

48:01Oti: The power of your pussy compelled you to slip into the brother. Come on. Michael and Jimmy will do anything Amanda says. Yep. You know? He's got she's got half of the family on lock. Yeah. Anyone that's against Amanda is Fine. No. But that's fine. But she didn't deserve it. She doesn't. What does she she's not she said, let's go fucking rob Eamon. Yeah. They rob Eamon and then what? Yeah. Oh, Eamon's retaliating. Oh, no.

48:26KT: And then you okay. Okay. Because this is a great contrast. When had Amanda at gunpoint, compare it to when Eamon had Birdie at gunpoint, fuck off. That is a great contrast and juxtaposition between the two characters

48:41KT: of how she was so ill equipped, but she wanted all of the glory.

48:41Oti: That's what I said. It was fucking work experience day for her in this show. Yep. And then at the end, she's like, they had to give her like a line that I'm a Kinsella now. Fuck why I love Kinsella's been shit. How? Shit. How? You're a fucking Kinsella because they're all shit anyway.

49:07KT: But this also goes back to us. And as we say, what do we love the most more than anything, Oti? A firm Foundation. And the fact that someone so useless like Amanda could topple the Kinsella gang,

49:23Oti: That just shows how unformidable they were. And then they make Franco to be like that conspiracy guy in the Games People Play that's just bubbling on and on. Oh, Amanda's trying to divide us. Amanda's this. Amanda's this. And then he takes all all all the drugs, all the drugs, all the drugs. Yeah. I'm like, and now Birdie knows, and now they're prepping for season two because I know this shit. I'm like, you know what? Do I have the patience to see how this goes or the writing gets better?

49:48KT: I highly doubt the writing will get better. Well, it it probably take one or two years before the next season comes out. I would be interested If to

49:57Oti: if they knew Yeah. They did have the the manpower, the money,

50:02KT: the to deal with Eamon, they've gone and killed Eamon's fucking boss. Boss's kid. Yeah. What does that do you think that brings? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because like you mentioned many times while we were watching the show, they don't realize Eamon's not the big bad. Who's not? And like you said, everyone reports to someone. And it was kind of nice seeing even with his tail between his legs.

50:24KT: Because he was this big powerful force that everyone bowed down to, but even he is subservient to someone. Yep. Unless you're like Gennaro and you become the destroyer yourself. Yep. Go and fucking watch Gomorrah, you motherfuckers.

50:24Oti: And I'm like, out of all this, why are you fucking relying on bloody Eamon to get you made?

50:42Oti: Travel the fucking world. Right? Because when they had that money, they were like, oh, naturally we need to sell it back to Eamon. I'm like, fuck off, sell it out of Ireland. Hey, you can do anything. You don't even need to rob Eamon. Go fucking get your drug. Go source your own distro. Yeah. The world is a big place, you know? Yeah. There's other places outside of fucking Europe. I know. Don't think you're fucking Belgium. Yeah. Mate, get out of the fucking continent.

51:06KT: What the fuck is this?

51:10Oti: Bloody hell. Oh, we're gonna source some drugs in Belgium. What the fuck is in Belgium? Yeah. Get out of the continent, mate. Yeah. Source your distro. Yeah. Source your own distro. Your distro. And Eamon will mean shit all to all of you. Because even Gennaro was like, fuck Naples and left Italy.

51:30KT: Everyone.

51:31Oti: Yeah. You get your own source. Yeah. Stop relying on third parties. Yeah. Be your own boss. Yeah. And this is something that these smart motherfuckers couldn't think of. Yeah.

51:31KT: No one's saying they're smart. No one's disputing that, my love.

51:31Oti: They'll they'll keep on saying how smart they are. Yes. Oh, I'm smart. You know? Listen to me.

51:47KT: But maybe it's like those people that are like, we're happily married. If you're happily married, why do you have to tell me, bro?

51:55Oti: You know why I'm so frustrated? It's because of the hope that I got from the first episode, and I thought they'd laid a really good foundation.

51:55KT: What frustrated you more, this whole Squid Game?

51:55Oti: The Squid Game, because there was so much potential in that. Yeah. There were like three good episodes in this. Three great episodes in that. Yeah. We've seen a lot of drug shit. Like, I fall back on something. You need to be on par or you need to be better? Snowfall will come back and I'll forget all about Kin in a few weeks.

51:55KT: No. Well, you haven't forgotten about Camelot.

51:55Oti: Oh, that's true.

52:23KT: I love how that's what I've taken out of this. You never know. Friends and lovers, especially those that don't podcast, turning on the mic is a beautiful thing because magical things can happen. But apparently not in Camelot. Eamon Eamon Eamon, I really respected his character. I appreciated it because, again, we're in the drug game. You need ruthless motherfuckers that are going to hold their ground and strong-arm everyone. Right? So that's what Eamon was. He that's what he presented

52:56KT: and that's how he carried himself. So to have, you know, level one minus five XP Amanda come along and topple him, It was very frustrating. Right? Because so so what what we have at the end of the episode, what we have to follow in season two is we were aware that Amanda had asked Jimmy to do something. So she ended up killing the two IC to Eamon. We come to see that, you know, not not necessarily through Amanda's hand, but we have Frank ODing.

53:30KT: We have Birdie with newfound knowledge that it wasn't Eric specifically that needed to take the hit. It was anyone, so that's what Amanda chose. Yeah. So that's really new and powerful information in the hands of a great character. And then we also find out that Amanda apparently is is is good with she's she understands loose ends. So not only has she orchestrated all of this, but she's made sure that Eamon is no longer a problem. But I'm fucking fortunately,

54:01KT: I don't even know why Michael did it. He could have really just shot Eamon and left. Yep. But I think he wanted that big speech at the end. Mhmm. Because he has such a boner for Amanda, I suppose. But I I would be interested in a season two. I won't have heightened expectations, which is kind of good because then I'm not gonna be more frustrated.

54:22Oti: Yeah.

54:23KT: I think I wanna see Birdie take on Amanda. But what's frustrating is Amanda doesn't even deserve to go toe to toe with Birdie anyway.

54:32Oti: I think this is more of a weekly show. You know? I think watching it back to back like we did raised a lot of more of the frustrations that I feel more now. Yeah. If I had taken a break in between a week to just fucking forget about it and then go in and they're like, oh, this is also going on. Let me just see how it's going. Yeah. Maybe you would have been different in terms of how I feel how it should have gone. Then my I wouldn't have had such high hopes Mhmm. Thinking that something's gonna change because it's just I

55:03Oti: want I'm expecting season two to just write them better, write the characters better. Can we get rid of Amanda? I don't think so. Make it more grounded. If you're building it around Amanda being the big bad, fine. Do it, but do it properly. Just improve everyone's fucking level a notch, you know. It's just too haphazard at the moment. Everyone's bloody everywhere. No one really knows what they're doing and who they are. I feel like the Vikings still has a big part to play in all this.

55:32KT: If he if he can keep a cool head, he could be a very effective leader. I don't know if that's where we're going with Viking's character, but I feel like he could be because he would make hard decisions. Yeah.

55:32Oti: But one thing that was a juxtaposition of what

55:50Oti: Eamon was saying was, he said he had to be ruthless above all so people can really fear him. Mhmm. Because if he wasn't that, people would come for his head. Yep. And then imagine a situation where, be it Tony Soprano, be it Frank LaSalle. Or even Barksdale. Yeah. Imagine them having the two ICs. Lead the rival gang leader Yeah. To their stash house. Give them Yeah.

56:16Oti: Everything. Yeah. Actually, yeah. Them going back to their bosses and being, they took everything. Oopsie. And the boss is like, Mate, it's okay. They are just on it. It's not affable. Not even like a slap to the face. Not even like, I'm gonna punch your kid. Nothing. And I'm like, lost 50,000,000.

56:33KT: Yeah. What the fuck? Because I guess if we're talking about millions, sometimes it's relative compared to, you know, how how fast you can sell the drugs. Very famously in Power, they could get a million in one day selling drugs on the street. But it seemed like 50,000,000 was the whole chunk.

56:51Oti: It was the old whole stash. Yeah. That big boss was waiting for for his change in that. That made no sense. That made no sense at all. You just spoke about how you want, you had to be ruthless. You couldn't let any of the Kinsella go without having to kill one of them. Yeah. Because that's your rep, and you have to stand by that. Yeah. But you let someone who led In your team. Into the into the stash Yep. Took everything. Yep. Not not not a sample.

57:18Oti: No. No. No. No. No. The whole fucking thing. Everything. And your reaction was like, yeah, mate. It was understandable. Hey. How you kid, he couldn't do anything. You better get it back. But let's be clear. As useless as the Kin gang were,

57:32KT: Dots wouldn't have done that. He would have been like, kill me. I'm not telling you where it is. I'm not letting you in. Yeah. Yeah. Like like, what the fuck? Yeah. You wanna burn my kid?

57:42Oti: Yeah. Hell, can't fucking bite you all. Yeah. Exactly. The fact that he we're supposed to be scared of big baddie, mean Yeah. Con Doyle wasn't scared of him to the point of being like, fuck that shit. Mhmm. Because if I lead you to my stashes, I'm gonna be dead. Yeah. I won't be able to enact any revenge for you killing my kid. Interesting.

58:01KT: So from a writing point of view, everyone feared him, but not in practice. Yeah. There was no fear. I think fear and respect. Yeah. I don't know if that I think they made it presented that way, but I don't know necessarily because if Con Doyle, his OG right hand think about Gustavo in Narcos. Come on, man. Right? Yeah.

58:24Oti: Nah. Yeah. That doesn't fly. You're right. It doesn't fly. You're right. And I was like, there's so many fucking holes. It's so gang light. I'm like, is this? Yeah. It's fucking flavored glucose. It's just fucking flavored glucose at this point. Give me the fucking real shit. Yeah. What's this? Yeah. Yo. Two IC is not scared Yeah. Of this big bad Eamon.

58:51Oti: Yep. For you to lead them knowing full well, you could go. You could I was expecting him to go run away after that with his kid. No. No. No. No. He had the fucking essence and presence to go to him and be like, oh, they took it all, man. How did it take you you drove them? You showed them where the stash house is? You you put the lift foot?

59:11Oti: You rode it? Opened the fucking crate. You you you gave them everything. Yeah. You didn't even have a fucking dummy box on the side of me like, oh, yeah. This is it. Yeah. And I'm like, you still had you felt secure enough that Eamon will fucking let you be. Yeah. Because if Eamon was the fucking same ruthless person he was Yeah. He'd be like, if I tell you, I'm dead. If I take you there and give it out, I'm dead with my son. My my whole fucking family is gone. Yeah. So there's no fucking point in me taking you when I know we're all gonna fucking die anyway. So fuck you. And I hate that Con Doyle went and threatened Anthony.

59:45Oti: Like, it's just fucking flavored water at this point, mate. Just just ugh. You're not big bad foot. Nothing. No one fucking fears you. Yeah.

59:45KT: No. And and to be fair, I didn't even think that until you said it. Because the the performance,

60:01KT: the acting wasn't so Tony Soprano's stash and you think that he's gonna let you be. Or even like Tommy at one point. Tommy was a two IC for Ghost. Tommy would never let that fucking happen. Imagine that. Yeah. Tommy would fucking kill your whole family just to make sure. Yeah.

60:17Oti: Maybe the gangs in Ireland are different. Maybe. But we've we've It's the one place in the world where fucking money and and greed and and power doesn't mean shit.

60:30KT: Well, maybe that's a nice sentiment. It's frustrating from a TV point of view. Yeah. But if everyone can get along, I guess

60:38Oti: We're that all in this together.

60:41KT: Okay. We need to end now. Women hating High School Musical singing Oti.

60:51Oti: Man. A PC gang.

60:54KT: A PC gang.

60:56Oti: I never thought I lived through the day, man. Fucking hell. Oh, it's very understandable. You had you you kid,

61:06KT: It was all just folly. It was all just folly, but yeah, it's friends and lovers. Oti singing High School Musical is essentially turning on the lights at the nightclub because it's time to leave. Dear. Woo hoo hoo. Or I guess in reference to the nightclub, doof, doof. Let's finish off in a segment we call For Your Friends. Since you famously did not enjoy this, what would you recommend Oti?

61:36Oti: Snowfall, Sopranos, Gomorrah, the list goes on. There's fucking endless. Yeah. Endless. Yeah. What's up? You'll get better writing, better payoffs, more tension around, and then it'll fucking make sense at the base level. They're not good people, and that's the fucking point. No. Because even in Succession, they're not necessarily good people, but we enjoy watching it. Yeah. I'm saying they're fucking killing people to get where they got. Yeah. They're not good people in that aspect. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. No fucking pretext pretext of, No fucking pretext of, oh, Amanda's now leading. Work experience, buddy. Fuck that shit. Just just watch something else is alls. Watch something else.

62:16KT: And thank you for leaving a reference for me, Oti. First of all, thank you friends and lovers. Very regularly Oti, we're getting random downloads on 4 Blocks. Good. I think it's because I mentioned it as much as I can on this podcast.

62:39KT: Please go and watch 4 Blocks and then listen to our podcast episode and you can ride it and snap it off. Snap it off would be the best part of this. Well, if you'd like to break off Oti's back on Twitter and Instagram, we're at for your f pod. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on a condensed version of OT podcast if you like to leave rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week.

63:07Oti: See Bye.