Escape room – Savant a clue

Full transcript of Escape room – Savant a clue.

0:00KT: Hey. Welcome back to For Your Reference. I am actually the quiz master for Your Phrase or Mine this week.

0:09Oti: Yes. You are.

0:11KT: Alright. So it's it's a phrase. Mhmm. It's more of an Irish than a Cockney sort of origin. And the phrase is jackpilanting.

0:24Oti: Jack planting?

0:26KT: Jack planting. Planting. I will give you no more clues, sir.

0:34Oti: It means that to showboat?

0:41KT: No. No. And I think this might have been the first time you've lost Your Phrase or Mine. It actually means dancing,

0:51Oti: which is what I'm doing right now. You can dance and you know? While showboating.

0:57KT: I'm showboating right now. That means I get to choose next week's episode, but Avengers is coming out, so possibly that.

1:05Oti: We'll see.

1:07KT: Alright. Well, let's all jackpolance together to the theme song as we get into another episode for this week. Hey, friends. Welcome back to For Your Reference podcast with your cohost, KT and Oti. And this week is your pick.

1:48Oti: Yes. It is. So I decided to go with Escape Room.

1:55KT: Escape Room. Yes. So this was a movie that came out this year in February in America. Yep. Yep. The budget was $9,000,000. It made 18,000,000 in the opening weekend. And according to IMDb, it grossed 56,000,000 in America. So that's pretty cool. Yeah. That's good. That's decent. Pretty pretty great. If you're new to our show, we don't really go with the ratings of things. We kinda just feel our way through life.

2:30Oti: Yes. And this movie being done by or featuring Jay Ellis and being part of the Lawrence Hive, I thought He who must not be named. I thought it will be a good pick for this week regardless of the ratings.

2:46KT: Take a knee, cadet. Too soon. Yeah. So we're covering this movie today, and it is quite topical. Escape rooms have taken the world by storm. Australia is no exception. I I can't really remember escape rooms being a part of my adolescence. It feels like it's kind of just cropped up in the last It's become few years. Yeah. It it's become quite popular more recently. Yeah. And I I don't think Oti has actually been

3:16KT: to an escape room. If it it I guess if you're not counting this podcast and and us closing the door and you're not being able to leave for an hour, you might call that an escape room. I'm not sure.

3:28Oti: Then again, I'm black being led into a room with no way out. I'm not gonna put myself into that.

3:28KT: You're not you're not going to be the last one standing. Let's just say that.

3:28Oti: Oh, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah.

3:28KT: So I've I've actually been in a couple of escape rooms.

3:28Oti: Yeah. How did you find the experience?

3:28KT: Well, I've I've gone with two separate groups of people, and both of them I never wanna see again. Let's just say that you

3:52KT: you regard people so highly until you go into an escape room with them, and they keep counting the plastic rubies. And you're like, dude, this has nothing to do with anything.

3:52Oti: There's a big plastic rubies?

3:52KT: Like, just decoration. Let let's let's just cut back for a second because aside from suspending belief, this movie had so many effects to an escape room. And I'm pretty sure for avid sort of escape roomers, I'm just going to coin that, It's literally laminated paper on a wall. Like,

4:27KT: that's as far as you go with effects. You'll be lucky if you have a lock or two. But, yeah, just just in general, like, I've done escape rooms, and I just I just don't care for it. I don't care for the people that invite me to go there. I will regard you a lot less, and I don't regard people much to start off with. I did, for a long time, growing up, I did enjoy the point and click games where you're it's like really shitty games that were made in paint.

4:59KT: Yeah. And you click on the cupboard, and then you click on the combination.

4:59Oti: Like an Agatha Christie click and point to fix. Come on now.

4:59KT: This was even before then. These were, like, $2 animated sort of Find the hidden I can't remember the website. Hidden items or something like that. There's Miniclip that has, like, lots of games on it, but I think it was even before Miniclip. It was literally, like, just drawing of lines,

5:23KT: and that was you in the room. And then I kinda got bored with the usual ones, and then I stumbled across, like, some Japanese site.

5:23Oti: Those puzzles are much harder.

5:23KT: No. Not not not the exciting ones. Not the ones that need a rating for it.

5:23Oti: Oh, okay.

5:23KT: But yeah. So I I understand the concept of escape rooms. I do think they are quite fun, but it is quite funny that we pay people to lock us in a room because I guess our lives aren't as exciting because we don't have gladiatorial games anymore.

5:58Oti: Yeah. We need we need to find an outlet.

6:01KT: Well, you would be the first to go. I think we established that.

6:04Oti: By we, I mean you.

6:06KT: Oh, by me. Alright. As long as I can be in the world of Spartacus, I'm fine with that. So let's go back to the actual movie we were talking about. Not as as exciting as Spartacus, but you should definitely give it a go because I'm pretty sure we've referenced it many times. Yes. We have. Yes. So going back to Escape Room, we it was great. I think before we actually dive into our actual opinions, it is important that we preface this with I see this as a

6:40KT: stock standard. Aside from the fact that it's Escape Room, it's pretty much a run of the mill, horror ish type of movie. And the reason why I preface it this way is because we we don't have much expectation for these sorts of movies story wise, character development wise. So we kind of give it leeway. If you've listened to any of our episodes, Black Panther, Us specifically, even Get Out, you know, we had a lot of expectations of what those movies should be or how good we expect it to be.

7:18KT: Escape Room and, you know, other movies of that like Cabin in the Woods, for example, we don't really we're not looking for our lives to be reawakened by watching it, essentially. So let's just put that on the table. So I'm not really there with my super, super amateur discerning eye for watching things. I guess, in a nutshell, I enjoyed the movie. Mhmm. It was quite watchable. I probably won't watch it again. But but for the time that it's it it asked of me, which was an hour thirty nine minutes,

8:01KT: it was fine. I I wasn't bitter by the end of it. I thought the movie was great. It was it was great for the time that I was watching it. The acting was pretty stock standard even though I did think that the actress that played Zoe was quite good. We'll go through the cast in a second, Taylor Russell. But, you know, in these sorts of movies, I'm not expected to be wowed or, you know, be changed by watching it. So I felt all around, it was a good movie.

8:37Oti: I thought it was an okay movie based on the fact that I've seen better of this type. Like, Escape Room isn't a new concept in yeah. Those and I think before that, I think one of my first experiences with this kind of type of movie was Cube, I think back in '97, 1997. So it's quite ages back, but The movie buffs are quaking. Yeah. And and I think Cube was done so much better and more tasteful. The storyline was a bit more complex, and the characters had more background and more foundation

9:21Oti: to them. Uh-huh. Whereas in this, we find people like Jay Ellis who, in as much as I like him, he didn't really portray the character in as much depth as he could.

9:36KT: Alright. He's this I don't really like Jay Ellis, but at the same time, I don't think the script warranted or allowed the actors to breathe. It was kind of reduced to one liners, essentially.

9:48Oti: Probably. But

9:50KT: Jay Ellis had quite a bit of airtime considering he wasn't one of the main

9:50Oti: More than I wanted.

9:50KT: Yes. So let's go through the cast. So Zoe, we've mentioned a couple of times, is played by Taylor Russell. We also have Ben Miller, who's played by Logan Miller, if you'll pardon the pun. We also have, sorry. Just to just to clarify, spoilers, obviously, welcome to For Your Reference. We live in spoiler town. Yeah. So Zoe was in a plane crash. Yeah. Yep. Ben inadvertently

10:26KT: killed all of his friends that were in the car with him, drunk driving. Jay Ellis' character, Jason Walker, he Killed his best friend. He he killed his best friend. Yeah. Let's let's get to the end of the movie. He did kill his best friend. We've got Tyler Labine playing Mike Nolan, who's the trucker guy. Yep. The unassuming trucker guy, and his brother and his coworkers died in a mine, and he managed to survive. Other notable characters is

11:01KT: Amanda Harper played by Deborah Ann Woll. She was good. She was solid. We'll definitely need to about her. Ann Woll. Yeah. Yep. And then we also have Nik Dodani. I apologize, Nik, because I feel like you would enjoy our podcast, and you might be listening to this. He plays better things to do. Well, he's he's probably filming the new season of Atypical, but if you're not, feel free to listen to us and everyone else that's listening. Another character we should mention is the games master, WooTan Yu, played by Yorick van Wageningen. And

11:42KT: I feel like Yorick would be a fan For Your Reference, so I do apologize. Feel free to invite us to an escape room, and we can apologize appropriately to you.

11:51Oti: Well, because we've watched a fair few of whodunit and some three lesson puzzle sort of movies. And Yes. We knew there was an anagram in there somewhere. Yes. Were you able to decipher it by the time we reached the end of the movie and you're like, yeah, this is it?

11:51KT: No. But I do I was looking at the IMDb

12:13KT: trivia. I couldn't find any sort of semblance or any sort of reference, if you'll pardon the pun, to Agatha Christie's And Then There Were None with U. N. Owen, otherwise known as? Unknown. That blew my pants off. Yeah.

12:34Oti: I I felt dumb not realizing that.

12:36KT: My one brain cell just disintegrated. But I I felt like that was homage to if not the whodunit genre, but just to Agatha Christie's And Then There Were None. But I I couldn't find it on IMDb. So whoever's, you know, contributing to IMDb, you know, you need to get on that. Yeah. Definitely. But yeah. So Wu Chen knew you knew you knew there was something important about it.

13:07KT: But, yeah, it was one of those things where, like, man. We should have known what that was. Yeah.

13:07Oti: I feel like I didn't commit enough resources to my brain to think.

13:07KT: Just just admit you were bested.

13:17Oti: Not bested. More like I didn't care enough to try and figure it out before left. Gotten it right? I'd be dancing here singing songs of You're jack planting. I'll be jack planting right now. But but that didn't happen. Yes. I I just didn't bother. I knew it was an anagram of sorts or it had some sort of importance. Yeah.

13:43KT: But yeah. But, you know, life goes on. It does. Life goes on. So the movie starts with essentially a spoiler because for for for the cast, it is quite diverse. So even though we didn't know anything from anything, we knew that that was Ben's character in what seemed to be the last room. And the reason why we know it's the last room is because as the movie progressed, they all huddle together as a group, and they continue the puzzle as a group.

14:12Oti: Right? So we knew that Ben is one of the survive or is a survivor until the end?

14:18KT: Yes. Based on the opening. Based on the opening. Yeah. And, again, obviously, spoilers. Welcome. And then we because when we got to that to the ending, we're like, why did they show this as the opening scene? Why would they spoil this and put it right at the start of the movie? And as we found out, that actually wasn't the big reveal. That wasn't the big twist. The twist was he gets invited by the games master, WooTan Yu, otherwise known as No Way Out. And while he is being killed or strangled by WooTan Yu,

14:56KT: Zoe's character comes from behind Yes. And takes charge. So I thought that was quite neat. It was quite cute. It it it wasn't a twist to end my life, but it was great.

15:11Oti: What I didn't understand is Zoe faked her own death or because she was foaming at the mouth because there was poisonous air everywhere. Yeah. So how exactly did she

15:22KT: because I show just showed an oxygen mask. But I think I think the point is the cameras were kind of a faux proxy for Big Brother, and they weren't actually cameras. Because, you know, you I'm sure the cameras that they had because this is seems to be in the dark web that's earning millions and millions of Bitcoin or whatever the current currency is, they would have, you know, backup cameras. So I don't think the obvious looking cameras were actually

15:54KT: capturing the event. Right? So in any case, we we we found and we discovered that by smashing the cameras, oxygen masks were coming down. So that's possibly how she was able to survive.

16:06Oti: Oh, yeah. But it still doesn't explain the foaming of the mouth. You can't really fake that unless something's happening. You know? Do you wanna try?

16:16KT: All that I get, maybe it was little amounts that caused that, which I'm not a medical person. Or Or maybe she did get some sort of poison at that time, but it wasn't lethal enough for her not to be able to reverse it. I'm not entirely sure. But I I don't know, man. I'm really not for cheesy callbacks in movies. And when she started smashing the movie, she was like, atoms don't change as you watch them. Atoms change, but it's not synonymous with you watching it.

16:48KT: True. Right? Yeah. The same way a pot does boil, but it's not boiling because you're watching it, but it still boils. Right? Yeah. There's your five year old philosophy out the window right there. Read a book once in a while, people. Get it together. So yeah. So you have Zoe's character that ends up surviving. I guess they just mark her as dead until they can actually confirm it. That's why when Ben met with the games master, she was declared as dead even though she wasn't confirmed. A 100%. But let's talk about the characters.

17:30KT: Who was the standout for you? Not even acting point of view, just from a story point of view. Who stood out to you?

17:37Oti: In terms of annoyance, it has to go down to Danny Khan, Nik Dodani, because he's done apparently well, he he said that he's done more than a fair share of escape rooms and was vaguely familiar. He was fairly familiar of what needed to be done. So when And he wasn't doing it. Yeah. So when things started to go awry or when people started noticing, hey, this is this goes beyond just a plain escape room, Nik was still

18:06Oti: enclosed in his mind that, oh, this is so authentic. Even when the place was blowing up and there was real fire, he was like, oh, wow. You know, think about practical effects. They're going above and beyond. To a normal person, I feel like Yeah. I just needed to punch him.

18:27KT: Like everyone else in the movie?

18:31Oti: Yeah. You don't react like that regardless of how many how many things you've been through. He was a bit distorted from reality. Yeah. It comes to a level where this becomes so different to what you've already done. You know? It's not like me playing pretend cops and robbers and then me going to an actual ride along with a cop and being like, oh, wow. This is so, you know, this is so real. Oh, man. You know, it's it's so ridiculous how his character wasn't able to realize the gravitas of the situation

19:05Oti: and and and to actually be helpful because he did nothing of

19:05KT: Did I not tell you that he would be the first to die?

19:05Oti: You did. And I was so happy for him to be just taken out of the storyline because he was pissing me off.

19:05KT: He is that motherfucker in the corner counting those plastic rubies

19:21KT: that have nothing to do with the game. Like, you're a waste. You need to get out of this room right now before I strangle you. He's that character. But I must say, kudos to screenplay writers and directors, and we're quite new to this movie world. So whoever's responsible for the story, we do give some plaudits to because, you know, even five years ago or ten years ago, but even five years ago, we would watch movies about, you know, the gaming world or about, you know, technology technology and advancements. Right?

20:02KT: And the script would be written so clunky and so unrelated to who these characters should be. You know, so much of the times, the nerds are portrayed by 50¢ in glasses. You're welcome. You're welcome. Hashtag never forget. But you know what I mean? Like, so many times you see nerds, and they're not really nerds. You know what I mean? They're like what 50 year old out of touch people think nerds should be. So credit to everyone involved in this movie that contributed to the portrayal of Danny Khan's character

20:41KT: because that is quite true to nature. I can't even start to list to you the amount of people. I don't know why I have so many people surrounding my life that are obsessed with escape rooms, but I've managed to evade it as much as I can. But, yeah, the, you know, the fact that Danny was so obsessed with it and he was so into it and all of the details, I think it was quite close to how,

21:10KT: you know, people are when they're obsessed with escape rooms. I don't think it was that, you know, disjointed from reality. You know what I mean? I feel like the generational gap is closing in regards to who's making the stories and who's writing these stories.

21:26Oti: Maybe so. But to some extent, I would like to believe, you know, it like to believe, like, any human would be able to perceive danger regardless of supposed experience in said field. Like if I'm trapped in a cage with a bear Yeah. And I've been trapped in cages with fake bears before, but now I'm trapped in the cage with a bear that's actually moving a bit, has some sort of motor skills. I'm not gonna sit there and be like, oh, mate, this bear is so realistic. I'm gonna start panicking the hell out. For

22:09Oti: Nik or Danny for that reason, he he saw it as all part of the game even when they were boiling. Like, it was the room was was they're being baked alive, he's still thinking, This is so cool, guys. This is so cool. Take your jacket off. Wow. You know?

22:28KT: And I guess, you know, we're kind of getting ahead, but you talking about a bear in a cage, it reminds me of Alone. Is it this Discovery Channel Yep. Or National Geographic?

22:41Oti: I would say Hallmark. Not Hallmark. Sorry. History.

22:46KT: I don't okay. History Channel? Yeah. Okay. Not Hallmark. That's for your lifetime movies. Yes. It is. Your Hallmark movies. Yeah. This probably won't be on our official For Your Reference, but if you do wanna see people surviving out in nature, you should try Alone because it is quite good.

23:04Oti: Yes. It's quite good and quite frustrating, especially when people are taking opportunities away from actual talented people who could navigate such scenarios. Essentially, there's a contestant

23:17KT: that talks a big talk in his package, and you meet him, and you get to know his life. And he essentially says, you know, if you see me in a bear, look after the bear.

23:28Oti: And then the next minute, he walks into the jungle and sees sees a bear's gut, and he's like, uh-oh. Bear's gut. I'm out of here. He actually doesn't see a bear at all. But just because he saw

23:41KT: the fecal matter of a bear, he ran off the island, essentially wasting a contestant's opportunity. So check out Alone. I don't know if we'll ever cover it on For Your Reference, but, you know, we we did enjoy our time in the sun with that show. We did. We did. So let's go back. Entertaining. It is. It is quite good because let me just spend a few more minutes for those that are intrigued with this show because the first section of the Alone show is essentially survival. It's it's physical needs and survival. Finding your shelter,

24:21KT: finding a place for a good source of water, you know, not drinking nine quarts of dirty water. Being able to find food, being able to cook food without predators, you know, surrounding you. Right? Yeah. So that's the first half of Alone. And then the second half of it, once you've established your settlement and once you've got, you know, some sort of consistent sort of livelihood going, it's that mental survival. And that gets quite interesting. It does. And it rivals it rivals a lot of the run of the mill sort of horrors

25:01KT: that you watch because these are actual real people surviving. And all they have is essentially themselves being their own camera crew, and all they have is a satellite phone. And people have go through so much before they even throw the towel in.

25:17Oti: Yeah. Because it's a lot of money, and you can get to see people in their psyche and just how interesting humans are when they're completely secluded with no sort of companionship, not being able to touch, talk to anyone. You with your own thoughts Yeah. It's one of the most intriguing things that could happen. I feel like at a base level, all horror movies should be founded on that, the fear of being alone because

25:50Oti: even if even in escape rooms Yeah. Because you had people dying and being, you know, progressing through in a group, but an element of being trapped alone like did. Like, Saw did so many good things and laid out so many good foundations for horror movies to date.

26:10KT: And I've I've never watched Saw, so we'll need to get me onto that. And then we'll come back, and we'll talk about Saw. Leigh Whannell, our Australian king. I should be stanning him for a lot more. But yeah. So we we will definitely watch Saw one of these days. If you wanna extradite it, let us know. But, yeah, we definitely need to look into that. I think you're asking a lot. If you're talking about horror movies, you're asking a lot because I guess the genre, not not it's not a prerequisite,

26:49KT: but it is quite common for horror movies to have that slash and go type of element. And that kinda gets superseded by any sort of, you know, bolstering of the story, if you will. So I guess if you're talking about, you know, trying to add this element, probably more in the vein of psychological thriller. You know? That's what valors your Mongolies more.

27:13Oti: True. But not all horror movies should just be based on gore.

27:18KT: You know? I agree. Or not all horror movies are.

27:21Oti: Of horror movies where you can you can actually go out and search for

27:21KT: I know, but I'm saying that's the most common.

27:21Oti: Yeah. It is the most common, but that's that's not just the basis of what a good horror movie is. Mhmm. Because there are so many slasher for movies out there. You have Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which is good. Well, the original one is good. And then it just

27:44KT: Hang on. We talk about this all the time. Just like Prison Break, if you're going to recommend something, you need to recommend all of it.

27:44Oti: Well

27:44KT: Even the bad parts of it.

27:44Oti: I'm recommending the original one.

27:44KT: Oh, well, good on you. IMDb. Like, let's just this is a perfect example. Looking at IMDb for Escape Room, the genres are action, adventure, drama, horror, mystery, sci fi, and thriller. See what I mean? Choose a lane. Choose a lane, people. Just like Ryan Reynolds. Choose a lane.

28:21Oti: Where would sci-fi be in this?

28:23KT: I don't know, but I'm not done talking about Ryan Reynolds. I know he's given us Deadpool, but don't forget don't forget, he also gave us Deadpool 2. You need to choose a lane. Are you the hunky heartthrob, or are you the funny unassuming guy? Because you can't be both.

28:38Oti: Because he did The Notebook.

28:40KT: That's Ryan Gosling. You know what? The funny thing is I haven't even watched The Notebook, and Oti has.

28:56Oti: Yes. I get my Ryans confused

28:59KT: as do a lot of people out there. Yeah. Like me and Chris Chris Pine and the other one.

29:06Oti: Hemsworth?

29:07KT: How dare you? How dare you, sir? We stan a strong Hemsworth family, even the fourth brother.

29:15Oti: There's a fourth brother?

29:17KT: Yes.

29:19Oti: It's Liam, Chris, and who?

29:22KT: Liam, Chris, the one that's in Westworld, and then the other one that I don't think acts. We stan all the Hemsworths. So if any of you guys are listening to For Your Reference, because we have such famous clientele. Welcome. But we we do love the Hemsworths, but that's not what we're talking about.

29:44Oti: We're talking about Escape Room. Yes. We are. So I think we've divided so far from what we're talking about.

29:53KT: So we're using the clues. Just like the Hardy Boys, are you getting a clue? I'm getting a clue. Where is it pointing? Our clue is pointing towards you. Oh my. Yes. So Are we gonna take an intermission?

30:09Oti: We'll be back after this break.

30:12KT: So So before recording this, we actually watched the alternate opening, and we actually watched the alternate ending.

30:22Oti: Oh, yes. We did.

30:24KT: So near the end of the film, I you know what I've noticed is also a habit of mine? If I really like something, I say film, but if I don't like something, I say movie. For examples, listen to our Us episode, and you'll see that quite ardently. I don't know why I call this a film. Near the end of this movie, the game's master, WooTan Yu, explains to Ben that the appetite of this blood sport because he did reference gladiators as well. And he was saying, you know, our thirst for blood

31:04KT: is getting stronger and stronger, and they want more and more. They want more elaborate sets. They want, you know, more targeted sort of characteristics of, you know, the people going through these adventures in the escape room. So he he mentioned that there were parathletes one year. There were savants another year, and I'm I'm sad that they didn't call you because you're a savant of that ass.

31:31Oti: What?

31:37KT: So so with the alternate opening scene, we have a presumed famous soccer team. Yeah. Five soccer players. Look at me. I'm so American. I'm saying soccer. Five soccer players

31:37Oti: Football.

31:51Oti: Yeah. With their manager?

31:54KT: Yes.

31:56Oti: Go into the room, and they start figuring out that the escape room has has already started, like, game has already started. Yep. And unlike the cast that's being the main cast in in the movie Yep. They don't have the the brainy or the witty character to try and solve all this puzzle and put everything together. Because one of the one of the one of the guys gets a screwdriver and starts jamming it into a keyhole Yeah. And it breaks. And you know they're gonna need you to try and escape the room later.

32:34Oti: So they all just end up dying because all they did was panic and try and break the door. Were frivolous, essentially.

32:43KT: And I'm glad they didn't use that as the opening scene because that that's pretty much the first, like, thirty minutes of the movie. Yeah. But you're condensing it into, like, five minutes. So why would you watch that? And then see through Yeah. Because it it essentially spoils the buildup and the heat rising, if you pardon the pun, because it was an oven. So there there was really no need to have that opening scene in there. I think it was enough to know that, you know, it's been it's happened before. Yeah.

33:17KT: And I think the difference with the opening scene is the stakes were a lot higher for the main cast because, you know, they're the downtrodden, they're the underdogs, and they really needed that $10,000. Right? Not knowing a lot about football. I know that they get paid quite a lot. So, Oti, if you wanna live your dream of being a football player, I wholeheartedly support you. Yeah. As long as you come back to this podcast. So, yeah, so the so, essentially, they get paid a lot.

33:53KT: They get paid a lot every game. So why do they need that $10,000?

33:57Oti: Well, that's just solely for, well, big clubs or if you're in the Premier League in England.

34:00KT: They're probably still getting paid more than to be in an escape room just to get some, you know, little pennies here and there.

34:10Oti: So, well, regardless of how much money they

34:12KT: The point that I'm making is they didn't really wanna be there. They weren't in the mindset of we need to solve this puzzle.

34:22Oti: Well, the thing is they didn't think it had already started. Like, they were still trying to figure out

34:27KT: Danny's character was key to get people to realize that this was something they should take seriously. And then because he served his purpose, he died.

34:38Oti: But he didn't say people should take this seriously. He was just, like, dishing out random facts.

34:44KT: Yeah.

34:46Oti: True. But he did nothing. It was more Zoe and even even Jay Ellis came up with some solutions in there. So

34:57KT: Yes. He was his character was very cutthroat. And I guess in another world, I might admire that. But I I don't know. It just it just felt kinda short for me. I did appreciate, again, like you said, that he did solve some of the puzzles. But at the same time, I wouldn't wanna turn my back around this guy either.

35:24Oti: True. But at least you'd rather know that you're stuck in a room with someone who'd do everything to try and find a way up.

35:34KT: Isn't that what you said about Arturo and Money Heist? It's the same thing.

35:42Oti: Who would you rather being stuck with Danny or being stuck with Jay? Who would work his ass off to try and get you out of there? Or Danny who would just not do anything of note or help you to solve anything?

35:58KT: I think Danny would be quite valuable. Once you slap him and shake him and be like, dude, this is real.

35:58Oti: You can't and shake him, he'll be crawled crawled up in a ball and crying.

35:58KT: No. But he did. He mentioned that he did, like, 60 escape rooms.

35:58Oti: I bet he failed in all of those.

35:58KT: But he's he's I guess he's one of those characters where you need to stroke his ego a little bit just to get a tiny, tiny semblance of something useful.

36:24Oti: Well, it could also stroke Jay and he'd give you something reasonable as well.

36:31KT: Decline. No. Thank you. We do we do not stan in this household.

36:40Oti: Maybe they needed Issa Rae in that room to get the best of all.

36:41KT: Don't don't even get me started on Issa Rae. We just got on the topic of this movie again. I will turn this ship around, sir.

36:51Oti: Alright. This is not we're talk not talking about Insecure. So if I wish you'd do Insecure one of these days.

36:58KT: We should. Apparently, Issa Rae hasn't even started writing for the next season, so I'm a bit sad. Meaning that we can actually do it. And can Donald Glover get off the stage of Coachella and start getting on to Atlanta?

37:10Oti: How awful was that performance?

37:13KT: Art is subjective. But I just wanna say you can go and do whatever you Art is subjective. You can go and do whatever you want, but give me my new season of Atlanta.

37:25Oti: Yeah. He's he's doing everything now. He's got a new movie out on Amazon

37:30KT: Rihanna. Rihanna. Can we do can I just say I love Rihanna in every facet of every ability ever? Rihanna all day, every day, less than three, everything.

37:42Oti: No. So you're not Team Beyonce?

37:45KT: We don't have the time, and I do not have the capacity.

37:51Oti: Oh, well. Alright. Let's continue with the movie.

37:56KT: Yes. Let's continue with the movie. So we were choosing between does it have to be between Danny's character and Jay Ellis' character? Can we choose other people, or is it just those two?

37:56Oti: You could choose anyone.

37:56KT: I would choose Amanda Harper through and through. Amanda Harper. Yeah. And even if she becomes useless, she'll end up sacrificing herself for me. So it's a win win.

38:18Oti: Yeah. I'd go with Zoe then. At least she's smart enough to figure everything out.

38:24KT: She was she was quite foundational to the story. But let's let's talk about Amanda before time gets away from us. There was a moment in the movie where things got a bit somber and things got a bit too real when she had a flashbacks about being back in Iraq. Well, essentially, she's a soldier. Right? Mhmm. And it kind of spawned off into us having a conversation about just, you know, people being thrown into the military or, you know, willingly entering the military. How you get there. Yeah. Yeah. And,

39:01KT: I guess, how they're treated or how they're not treated once they come back.

39:06Oti: Because my trail of thought is if you serve your country, your country should serve you once you get back. Exactly. And it's not fair to have all these veterans struggle to make ends meet when they've spent x amount of years or even months protecting the country that you live in, like, to feel safe and to Yeah. Do whatever reasons, but it's just it just doesn't make sense. And it's one of those things where you think that politicians would try and try and fix. Yeah. And the fact that we live in a country where

39:46Oti: or we live in a world where you get all these people coming back with PTSD, not knowing how to cope with, you know, cope with everything that they've experienced because once trying to reenter the workforce? Because it's not it's not the same, is it? Know? You go back, you go there and you see, woah.

40:05KT: No. But you're you're actually at the helm of weapons that can and do minister harm. So, of course, you're not gonna be the same person coming out the way that you went in Because to be effective in war is you kinda need to shut off that ability to have compassion. Right? Because people are people at the end of the day. But I guess if you're on one side, you kind of need to suspend that to be able to be effective

40:35KT: in the way the government or the way that the country wants you to be. And when obviously not focusing on America or Australia, it's just talking about people in general. I it's not really funny, but it's it's quite saddening that the only thing that we all, you know, around the world have in common is we chew these well meaning citizens up, and we spit them out based on our purpose. And a lot of the times, it's based on alliances. It's not even for your actual country True.

41:10KT: For the wars that you're fighting. And, you know, I I don't want us to get, like, super deep about that because we're not That podcast. We're not that podcast. We do can try and hit your feels every now and again. But I guess, you know, the fact that we were watching this movie and it called out to us, I just wanted to mention that in this episode because it's it's a disservice that we're doing where we're saying, you know, you need to do this. And then once you come back, we don't even acknowledge,

41:41KT: you know, the the sad and awful things that you had to do. Because, you know, I'm sure that there's, like, a minute amount of people that actually enjoy that. Right? Yeah. And that's probably why they go into war. But for the vast majority of people that are say, for example, you know, they don't even care about the political climate, but they're doing it to keep their family safe. Yeah. Right? How are they supposed to go back to their family sitting around the kids at Christmas or, you know, at family gatherings and be okay

42:17KT: after everything that they've gone gone through?

42:20Oti: You know, it's a sad affair. And that's why looking at Amanda Harper having to do an escape room to get $10,000 Sad. Having served a country is ridiculous. Sad. It should never be the case. You know, once you serve your country, you should be able to at least, at the very least, be able to feed yourself, feed your family, you know, just do the basics Yeah. And the country should be able to pay for that, you know. It's quite quite frankly, it's unacceptable. But we're digressing and

43:01KT: Yeah. But yeah. So I guess you'll never know what you'll get at For Your Reference. We can laugh at the word penis, and we can also, you know, feel for people that are in the military. And we're not really talking about anything specific. It's just generally terrible the way that soldiers are being treated. So just as a general note, I guess, look out for each other, especially if you've got, you know, family members or, you know, just friends or loved ones that you care for that are in that sort of capacity. Just

43:38KT: look out for them. And, again, I don't wanna spend too much time on this, but I did work with someone that is a veteran. And he he was not the sort of person that would take a handout. He actually wanted to reenter the workforce, but it was not easy for him. And, you know, people would treat him differently just because just just because he had a different experience

44:06KT: to other people. And, you know, you don't even need to say that shit. You can see it in people's faces. Yeah. You can see it in the way they choose not to interact or, you know, you know, just just talk deeply. But he would he would tell me stories about how his support network with him and his buddies that have come back from war was so integral, how they would call each other just to spot check that they're still alive. You know, if someone's had a rough weekend, making sure that they're okay. So,

44:38KT: you know, I guess you can call this movie a light. Right? For for all of the highs in this movie, this was definitely a low that sparked conversation between the both of us.

44:49Oti: It did. It did. So

44:53KT: Amanda's character was very solid. It was it was very sad that she sacrificed herself, but she was also suffering during the whole escape room experience as well. Yeah. So I I guess it's just that mentality that she wanted to look out for her fellow comrade, so to speak. True. And when they were being trapped in the

45:19Oti: in the first room where they started turning the heat up, you could see how much it affected her because she was been in one, the explosions and the heat and fire. It just brought back all these memories for her, and she was really struggling to try and maintain a calm state, to be in a calm state and, you know, so you have all these aspects of war that would affect you in everyday life Yeah. No matter how small. So

45:49KT: mhmm. Yeah. So that's I think it was a worthwhile digression. It was. Let's continue. To a character that's not not very wholesome, not really of much value, so to speak, Ben Miller. What did you think about his character?

46:11Oti: So he's struggling to get back into society or, you know, to hold down job a job without drinking too much. And one of the first scenes we are introduced to him is trying to ask his manager for promotion to be at the front desk. Yeah. But the manager straight onto his face like, nope. Mhmm. And at first, we're like, wow. That's kind of

46:36Oti: mean and rude. You know? Because usually when you go to places like that, they usually try and train people Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To be able to handle customer service and, you know, that sort of stuff. But guess as the movie progressed, we Yeah. But then yeah. And then they panned to his desk, and he had a alcohol flask there.

46:55KT: But was there a part of you that that didn't so much feel sympathy for him? Is that harsh to say?

47:06Oti: Yeah. I didn't feel sorry for him. I do not feel sorry for any drunk drivers. You put everyone else at risk. Mhmm. And I have zero sympathy. I have sympathy for the people that died in the car that are with him. Yeah. But there's no reason why you'd be driving drunk, especially knowing the effects

47:29KT: Exactly.

47:30Oti: And the risks and the dangers. So anyone that does that has no sympathy in my book. But he's not even I don't even look at him as such a big character in this, and the fact that he survived throughout the whole movie just made me chuckle a bit because the first scene of the movie is him struggling to get out of the room. Uh-huh. Right? And he's being squashed by a room that's receding in size. Yep.

48:00Oti: So I was like, oh, okay. So this guy would essentially die in the end. But when we come to that scene, finds a way to escape Uh-huh. And he goes and meets this WooTan Yu guy Yeah. And gets rescued by Zoe.

48:18KT: He just didn't He just he didn't stand out in any way. He didn't stand out in any that was to his credit because he wasn't self sacrificing like Amanda.

48:27Oti: No. He wasn't.

48:29KT: He he wasn't too hot. He wasn't too cold. He was like the Goldilocks in the middle. Right?

48:35Oti: Not even that. I'd he he was he was just cold. Like Yeah.

48:35KT: But, no, my my point is, usually, people that run hot burn out.

48:44KT: And usually, people that run cold stay out in the cold. You know what I mean? So you kinda need to coast your way through the movie.

48:53Oti: Like in the scene, he's part of the people are looking for a way to melt I think, get a key from a block of ice. Yeah. And then he separates from the group and goes and starts smoking. And they ask, oh, give us your lighter. And he's like, fuck that, and then just throws it haphazardly on the floor. And Danny goes to try and get it and then sinks. Yeah. You know? Danny dies. So he's he's just he didn't he didn't do anything for me in this movie, and

49:25KT: it's I'm not I'm not saying that I'm glad that he won. I'm just taking the movie for what it was. Yeah. For what it was. Me too. And really didn't think much of him.

49:33Oti: If there were better characters who would have survived there.

49:37KT: Something more interesting that I think we should cover before we run out of time is the circumstances surrounding all of them. Because halfway through the movie, I did call it that these guys seem to have survived, and whoever the creator of this scenario was trying to make sure that they died or wanted to see who would come out on top. Yeah. Not only survive, but being sole survivors. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, there there were there were hints of that along the way. I wouldn't say it's my most triumphant

50:11KT: uncovering of a twist in a movie. See, Book of Eli. But yeah. So I I enjoyed the concept of that. It wasn't like we said, this movie wasn't groundbreaking in any way, but it wasn't it didn't make me wanna take my time back from watching it True. Which is also another big thing. So let let's talk about it. So Zoe, before we even got to the escape room, I think she was in a college dorm room. I think that's what Americans call it. Yep. Yep. And

50:48KT: there's, like, a background of an airport bathroom oh, not airport. An airplane bathroom. So I was like, oh, she must have been like a survivor in that movie. Right? Not in that movie. In that plane. So we've got Zoe surviving a plane crash. We've got Ben surviving a car crash. Car crash that he essentially was literally at the driver's seat of. We've got Jay Ellis' character, Jason, who know, when he first told the story of

51:24KT: him and his friend and his friend choking him and going crazy and swimming away, I I told you. I'm like, that does not seem that does not seem realistic at all. That motherfucker choked his friend, took his goat, and kicked him off the boat. Yep.

51:44Oti: And that's why he did.

51:46KT: That, like but that literally made no sense. Right? That would be like if the Life of Pi wasn't altruistic at all. And the Life of Pi is great. You should watch that as well. But, yeah, that like, I didn't believe that that's what happened to Jason's character. That was not true by any sense. Who believes that? So yeah. So you have Jay surviving on a boat. I would even be interested in the circumstances that they were on the boat because maybe it was more maybe it was more unsavory than we thought.

52:23Oti: Probably knowing Jay.

52:25KT: That's just my bias. There you go. So we've got Jason's character. We also have Mike Nolan's character where he was in mine, and everyone pretty much died, including his brother except for him. That didn't seem like it was his fault, though.

52:40Oti: No. It wasn't. Very sad.

52:43KT: Survivor's guilt, definitely. And then we have Amanda's character, who was the sole survivor during I'm not I don't really understand army terms, but she was the only one that survived out of some incident. Yeah. I think there was a

52:43Oti: How about Danny? All his house burned down?

52:43KT: Yes. All of his family died, and he survived. Yep. So

53:11Oti: they brought all these sole survivors to try and see who will be the ultimate survivor in the escape room Uh-huh. To the credit of Danny and not Danny. To the credit of Ben and Zoe, they managed to survive this together Yeah. And beat the game.

53:29KT: Yeah. I feel like they shouldn't have had the opening scene of the movie even though there were further twists to Ben surviving. When they moved out of the triage hospital section and left Mike and Zoe's character in there, Jason and Ben go into that trippy TV static sort of room. Right? In that moment, we knew that Ben was going to make it out because we saw the opening of the movie. Yeah. So I really I really don't understand what service like, what purpose it served.

54:10Oti: It's true. And, like, to quote Morty from Rick and Morty, you don't flash forward if it does nothing for this show. This is not verbatim in his thoughts.

54:10KT: Wow. Morty Morty sounds quite sexy.

54:10Oti: But it's just it doesn't make any sense. So flash forward should be used if not to keep us hooked to us to a movie because there's something interesting happening further along. Uh-huh. But it should be used as a tool to progress a story or to shed light on

54:41Oti: on aspects of the story early on Yeah. So that we know what will occur, you know, not just, oh, someone's gonna die. Let me sit and watch until that moment happens and see what, you know, it just doesn't make sense.

54:41KT: Definitely. Any any other characters you wanna talk about?

54:41Oti: Not really. Other than the how many are they? Other than the six main characters, there's nothing else. Really, there's a detective who we saw afterwards, but he just had, like, two lines.

55:12KT: I thought he was WooTan Yu. No. Because it's you know how you read a lot about serial killers or, you know, killers in general that like to be at the scene of the crime? I thought it was going to be one of those twists. How did you feel about it when she went back to the scene of the crime and then she saw that everything was pretty much burnt to the ground.

55:38Oti: I expected the smoke. I

55:40KT: like that they put the oven at the start because I would have got pissed off that everything got burnt just out of nowhere, and then it had no way out.

55:49Oti: Yeah. So I I thought it was quite clever in the part of the organization that does this because I'm pretty sure they've been doing this for quite a while Yeah. And managed to get away with it. They couldn't be that sloppy so that if someone did manage to escape, the whole operation will be disclosed, which just doesn't make sense. Yeah. And the fact that everything gets burnt after they leave the room make just makes perfect sense to me and yeah.

56:22KT: My blood started behind. My blood started to boil because my innate disconcerting sort of apprehension of sequels started to arise and emerge. Because once I saw No Way Out, she was like, WooTan Yu. No Way Out. It's part of puzzle. I knew that this was slated for another sequel, and I just I I just didn't. I just wanted to log off. I wanted to alt f four because it's I guess it just really bothers me. In this world of sequels, it's nice to have,

57:01KT: like, an original story that just leaves it. I know that there's the enticement of money bags and, I guess, to remain relevant, But it just bothered me. And looking at Wikipedia, there is a sequel that's slated to be released in 2020.

57:16Oti: Well, whether that happens next year. Yeah. Whether that happens again, it's not known.

57:23KT: Well, at the at the end of this movie, we do see the actual ending of this movie. Zoe meets up with Ben's character six months later. Mhmm. And she essentially takes him through all of the suspicious post activities that all of the people that were part of the escape room died from normal causes. Yeah. Like, just random accidents here and there, ran over by a car, skiing, accident. So Yeah. From from her point of view, and I guess from our point of view, these are these are essentially conspiracies to cover up the truth. Right?

58:04KT: And then something pretty exciting, you see a plane simulation. Mhmm. I was waiting to see Zoe's character, but we let we later found out it it was a simulation. And they're essentially preparing because they've intercepted the fact that she has bought plane tickets.

58:19Oti: Yeah. So I found that interesting as well. And I think the setting

58:19KT: Would you watch another ninety minutes of this?

58:19Oti: Probably not. Probably. This was an alright movie, and I'll leave it there. There's no need for me to continue living into this world.

58:35KT: Yeah. So if you wanna reignite Oti's passion and particularly if you're in Australia, feel free to invite Oti and and I to an escape room, and you can experience it firsthand, sir, with WooTan Yu. Mhmm. Alright. So I think we've got our fill. And before we escape from this room, if you'll pardon the pun, we're going to give our recommendations in our segment called For Your Reference.

59:03Oti: So I have two recommendations. One is I mentioned earlier in the move in the in the in the podcast, which is the Cube from 1997. It's really, really good if you want to see a sort of an escape room done right, then definitely watch the Cube. And my second recommendation would be Circle from

59:29KT: Yes. Yes.

59:32Oti: Yep. So Circle is pretty much the same concept where people are brought in together to try and figure out how they could get out of weird puzzles and scenarios. So definitely watch it and yeah.

59:45KT: Well, if you've been paying attention, you would have heard my two references. The History Channel's Alone, I know I didn't say we wouldn't make the main For Your Reference segment, but there you go. You should definitely watch it. And something to keep you entertained, in the late later seasons, they actually have a two team person two person team. Sorry. So that's quite interesting dynamic as well, even though we prefer the one contestant sort of deal. So definitely give out Alone History Channel's a go. History Channel, we have recommended Alone,

60:21KT: and we have done an episode on Vikings. So I'll wait for our cheque in the mail. And the second recommendation reference that I will give to you guys this week is Agatha Christie in any capacity, but in particular, the BBC miniseries from 2015 And Then There Were None.

60:21Oti: Nice.

60:21KT: It's got our Tywin Lannister as well in there. So if you've enjoyed this, if you wanna see what we're doing in between episodes on Twitter and Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod.

60:49Oti: And if you wanna write us an email, you can do that at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

60:59KT: Solve the riddle, guys. Escape the room. Alright.

61:04Oti: See you next week. Bye. Bye.