BONUS – Game of Thrones S08E05

Full transcript of BONUS – Game of Thrones S08E05.

0:22KT: Hi, guys. Welcome to For Your Reference. We have a very, very special bonus episode for you guys, and it's one of our first collaborations, and it's our first collaboration on our actual podcast. So we're very excited. That's very special. Very special. So you've got your regular, hopefully still loving host, KT.

0:22Oti: And Oti.

0:22KT: And we've got a very special guest. Would you like to introduce yourself?

0:22Cristian: Hey. Name's Cristian Garcia, cohost of Nerds With Friends podcast.

0:22KT: Hey. And I think we're a bit nerd and friends. It's kind of culminating altogether. Yeah.

1:00KT: Just let it happen. It's a thing. Just let it happen. Alright. So if any of you guys have tuned in to our Game of Thrones episode that we did a couple of weeks ago, I did say verbatim that we weren't going to do an episode by episode, but, you know, we gotta go where the cool kids are. We gotta talk about what the kids are talking about. And there's been quite a lot of buzz with the last season of Game of Thrones. Yeah. There has.

1:28KT: So before we actually even talk about the most recent episode of Game of Thrones, I just wanted to touch on the change.org petition. Cristian, are you aware of this petition?

1:38Cristian: I oh, yeah. Where they're trying to get them to change the writers and change the episodes.

1:42KT: Yeah. Yeah. Do do you wanna give us your hot takes on this? Have so much say.

1:53Cristian: I I don't think I'm trying to gather my weight. So I think I understand that people are are passionate, and they're in their feels. I have my feelings. But I don't think anyone should ever try to dictate a storyteller how to tell their stories. That being said, it's not the two guys who are running the series on HBO. I forget their names.

2:18KT: I think one's named Dan.

2:20Cristian: Yeah. And I believe Martin actually told them the ending. So it's actually George R. R. Martin's ending. So, I mean, if people were having feelings, stop watching. You know? But to try to get them to change it, like

2:39KT: The the that's when you go into the territories of Bandersnatch, Black Mirror. Yeah. Exactly.

2:46Cristian: Right? It's

2:47Oti: And that would be the worst Game of Thrones ever. Imagine having to choose to choose what people would do at every stage. Like, no one wants that. It's happened. This is how it was planned from ages ago and just accept it and go on.

3:04Cristian: Yeah. It's just, you know, if if you feel that strongly, just stop watching. Like but don't don't try to get them to change it. It is what it is. And I've had many discussions with a lot of people, and I I don't know if you guys have talked about, like, the foreshadowing of it, but they've kind of been hinting at it for a little bit. Yeah. And particularly this season.

3:29KT: Exactly. And I I literally just started watching because Oti entrapped me, and he told me that this was the last season without mentioning that there are prequels. So we're going to court for that. Don't you worry. But, yeah, after seventy hours, I still don't understand what the big whoop is about Daenerys. And, you know, feel free to listen to our Game of Thrones episode if you haven't heard it. But it was quite clear that she wasn't

3:57KT: a leader or she wasn't the leader that people thought she was. I think people just got caught up in the frivolity of the dragons and all the fire and all the fanfare.

4:08Cristian: Right. And, I mean, it's if you go back to even season one when Khal Drogo burned her brother's, you know, melted his face off. She didn't really react too much to it. She kept a very straight face. And granted, he was a terrible fucking person who totally deserved it. But it was still her brother. Yeah. You know? And she just kept a straight face. Just never showed any, like, remorse for that at all.

4:37Oti: True. And it's just because I didn't really think that my well, I didn't think too much about Daenerys as a character. Like, I don't know why that is, but KT was just so adamant of how bad a person she is from the get go and brought up points that I really didn't think about that much.

5:00Cristian: I'd love to hear it. Tell us.

5:03KT: Essentially, she's like I said in our Game of Thrones episode, she's the UN in its worst nonfunctioning form. You know, her presence there makes you believe something's going to happen, but she doesn't genuinely do anything. It's all essentially empty gestures. She goes into towns that she doesn't understand the context. She doesn't understand the social structure. And she, in her words, frees the slaves, but she doesn't, you know, facilitate a structure for them to be able to thrive, for them to have livelihood.

5:37KT: It's kind of like there to fend for yourself. And even the way that she was living in a pyramid, people aren't there for free. People aren't there off their free will. People need to clean and draw your baths and cook your food. And you know what I mean? Like, the way that she wanted to live her lifestyle supported the structure of having slaves. And it's all kind of faux and superficial

5:59KT: sort of ruling. But, you know, I I've seen her through the stars. I've been best friends since George R. R. Martin since the start. So I think people just got caught up in the dragons and all that sort of nonsense there. But just to go back to the petition, it's hit as far as I last checked two seconds ago, 919,000 signatures.

6:22Cristian: All babies. Nine what? Wait. What? Babies. 919,000.

6:27KT: So they're pretty much going to hit the 1,000,000 mark.

6:32Cristian: See, man, this is you know, guys who's listening and if you're one of the ones who are upset, fan fiction. You can go and write your own story, post it up, have people read it. I don't know. It's just everyone's just being a big, big baby about it. I just think anyone who who didn't see it coming just really wasn't paying attention at all.

6:55Cristian: I'll and I'll say this. It it was a hard turn on this season, but there have been hints about it throughout the whole time. She's like, she killed all the leaders of the Dothraki, did not care, you know, didn't bat an eyelash. Granted, they weren't the greatest of people. There there's just been so many so many hints. Even the names are I I won't take credit for this, but it was something that I read that I felt was, like, a really great hint. So the three dragons' names, Drogon for Khal Drogo, Rhaegal,

7:27Cristian: who was her Jon's dad, and Viserion, who was her evil brother. Viserion was the one who got turned by the White Walkers and attacked her, just like her brother. He was evil. You know? Rhaegal was the sensitive one, and he was the one who got taken down. And and sorry, spoilers if anyone hasn't seen it, by the Greyjoy. And he was the compassion. So when he went, her compassion went. And who was left?

7:55Cristian: Drogon. And what was he? A fucking murderer. Like, how Drogon did not give a shit. He just murdered. So, I mean, like, anyone who just just wasn't really paying attention if they're if they're that upset.

8:07KT: Be in your feels, but fan fiction guys, just write some fan fiction. And then I think he was just a normal guy, the the guy that started the petition. And then he recently put an update, essentially backtracking and being like, I know nothing's going to come out of this petition. And spoiler alert, too long didn't read. Essentially, nothing tangible has come out of this petition. And he was kind of saying, you know, I appreciate all of the work of the writers and blah blah blah. I was like, really, dude? Like, you just

8:36Cristian: So you're gonna stir the shit? And then I have to be like, oh, it's okay. Smoke on.

8:43KT: I just I didn't get people. And I I do understand that people need an escape, but I think at the same time, as much as you love something, you don't own it. You don't own the show, and it's kind of a privilege to be able to step into a world, however problematic or however

9:01Cristian: That was Yep. Beautifully said. 100% of it.

9:04KT: Thank you. I am the wordsmith of the town. There there there's not much else I can do except for being a barmaiden, but that's another story. But, really, we're we're immersed in a world that we we don't really set up the structures for that. And, you know, a lot of the time within our podcast, you know, a lot of the qualms that I have with things we watch is not having a cohesive sort of story. Right? But even in that, I accept whatever it is for whatever it is.

9:35KT: As as much as I wouldn't rank Game of Thrones as one of my favorite shows, there are so many elements that get me giddy, and there are so there's so much character development that you can unpack. You know? For for everything that it is, there are good parts and bad parts. And, you know, if things don't go a certain way, you kinda just need to accept it for what it is. You know, even if you're if we're talking about terrible ex machinas like Martha with Batman and Superman, there's nothing we can do about that.

10:04Cristian: So let me get so Game of Thrones is not your favorite show?

10:04KT: No.

10:04Cristian: Oh, okay.

10:09KT: Coming out. No. It's good. Well, you've got Oti R. R. Martin in here. He'll help you.

10:14Oti: So going back to the last episode or episode seven. Right? Episode five. Five. Yeah. Yeah. So we see that it starts off with Varys, and we love Varys. Varys has been throughout the whole show, more or less so the the most recent seasons because we also know that he's had problems with the way his character was written in the later episodes Uh-huh. That he didn't really accept.

10:44Cristian: You know what? See, my my thing with him is, like, he's the master of whispers and the master of spies, but he didn't see that coming? Like, come on. Yeah. He must have known a little bit. Like, you know, you didn't he has not survived that long because he's an idiot. You know, he must have had some idea, but, you know, they had to cut him out. I get it. Yeah. I I think we all knew that the writing was on the wall for Varys.

11:06KT: But what I did appreciate, if you if you contrast his, as you wanna call, nemesis, Baelish, they were both feeding their own self interest. But I guess on some point, you could argue that Varys had more of a virtuous self interest because it wasn't necessarily about him. As deluded as he might have been, he believed that he was helping the greater good. Baelish was all about himself.

11:28Oti: Ward. And the fact that it they didn't even give him an opportunity to react to Baelish dying. Like, it just didn't happen. The two of them were nemesis, you know, the get go.

11:40Cristian: And his passing was just washed out as if, you know, Baelish never existed at all. You know, I was reading that there was a scene that got cut out when the whole Arya and Sansa beef was going on Mhmm. That they were actually, you know, ready to take each other out. And it wasn't till

11:59Cristian: Sansa spoke to Bran. He's like, oh, shit. I got, like, a human fucking recorder over here that reads all of history. So she there's a scene where she speaks to him, and he basically lays out everything what's going on. And so that's how Sansa and Arya plot against Littlefinger. And to me, it's like, why would you cut that out? You know, that that would have been a great scene, but I guess they figured it was said without being said. I don't know.

12:19KT: And can I just say, Aidan Gillen, who plays Baelish and he also plays Carcetti from The Wire, I will stan him till the end of fucking time, and I will fight anyone that tells me he isn't a great actor? I love seeing him in Game of Thrones. Oh, no. Nonsense is not a great actor. He's just wasn't the best bastard in Game of Thrones. But I'm still building up my anger. I still need to fight someone. So if anyone wants to fight me

12:44Cristian: Well, the thing is, like, that's I would say that's the test of a true great actor. Like, if you can really hate the person, it's like they fucking sold that part. You know? Like, if you genuinely hate Littlefinger, just goes to show how great of an actor

12:44KT: Oh, like Joffrey.

12:44Cristian: Oh, Well, this Joffrey's a little something special, I guess. It was something it was something with his face. It was just a character. Punchable face. Like, he just wanted to

13:11KT: you took it out of my mouth. That was about he's very punchable face. I think I think the parents just saw the casting call, they were like, you know what? Kid, we found your purpose. We

13:22Cristian: we were It's like, you know how

13:23KT: they're just probably, you know how we always beat the shit out of you? We're gonna make some money off of that. Someone else Yeah. And now someone's publicly gonna do it. Let's share it. Let's share the punching bag with the world. He just I think some people are just born with that face. And whether whether it's a blessing or not, you've got Joffrey. But, you know, even before being immersed in the world of Game of Thrones, I thought Joffrey was the worst, and boy, was I wrong.

13:50KT: He he was the worst in in the sense that he was just born terrible. But there there were some real problematic sort of characters. And we've listened to your recaps in your recent episodes, and I think you guys got up to episode three in your most recent one.

14:06Cristian: Yeah. Well, it's hard because in my mind, we we just did this last episode. It just hasn't posted up yet, it gets kind of confusing for me because we talk Time is nonlinear. I know it worked. So

14:21KT: I guess it was episode three was the last one we talked about. Yeah. So that's but even in there, you guys were talking about and I sorry. I don't remember who specifically. But talking about Cersei swooping in to save the day, I would love to hear you guys or or hear you unpack that. And I am so sorry. I will pour some sip on the concrete for your for your dear

14:42Cristian: That was not that was not me. That was Cody. So I'll let I'll let Cody speak for himself.

14:47KT: So who who yeah.

14:47Cristian: Oh, actually, that might have been Nelson, our guest.

14:47KT: So so so so you're not you're not stanning queen Cersei?

14:55Cristian: No. No. In fact, if if now now that I'm thinking about it, it was definitely Nelson because for some reason, he he loves her. I don't know. He he's kinda like the dude who, like, who likes taking the opposite point, you know? Like, I think if you were to ask him, he would be a Trump supporter just to, like, piss people off. Oh, yes. But, like, I don't think he really feels it as as much as he just likes to be in Texas.

14:55KT: Yeah. So he wants to fight. I feel like Nelson and I would get along just fine.

15:18Cristian: Although, I think he actually he actually would back up, like, full heartedly believes it's the whole Cersei thing. That's it. I don't know, though.

15:21Oti: But don't you feel like Cersei has become more likable in recent seasons?

15:21KT: What have you been watching?

15:33Cristian: I'm staying.

15:37KT: We're we're we're like that couple that fights, and you just have to sit there and deal with it.

15:41Cristian: Oh, that's cool. That's cool. No. I mean, I I would say the only slightly redeemable thing is when, you know, how much you wanted those elephants. I mean, that was kind of nice.

15:53KT: The out of out of all the things that Cersei did, the most unforgivable thing that I just I just completely, like, dismissed her in every sense was when she what's it called? Wildfire? Yeah. Green stuff. Wild. Which essentially was to get rid of the Tyrell family and also the priests. But in as as a byproduct of that, Tommen was so overcome by it that he committed suicide. And yet for all of these seasons, you know, Cersei's ridiculous, and she's so hateful, but the redeeming quality was she loved her kids.

16:26KT: And for her to not have any you know, maybe she considered it, but for her to not really thoughtfully plan out that this might actually affect Tommen to the fact that he might commit suicide, that was unforgivable to me.

16:37Cristian: Well, I think that was the whole point why she locked him in the room. She figured he was safe that way, but I guess that no one considered putting bars on the window, and off he went.

16:50Oti: Yeah. But I think the arc for me on Game of Thrones was just one of the worst. The High Sparrow and religion. Was like, that's where Cersei was like, I'm actually glad she did that for me. Like, get rid of this. Just put an end to it. And You know, yeah, thinking back that whole

17:07Cristian: cult thing was kind of pointless. There really wasn't much that came out of that. Other than just showing Cersei

17:14Oti: doesn't really care much about anyone else other than Jaime and her family.

17:20Cristian: And even then, she was ready to kill Jaime when when he's like, you know, we got hey. These fucking White Walkers, that's a problem. We gotta go take him out. And she's kinda like, no. I don't wanna do it. And she was it looked like

17:32Cristian: any other challenge from him, and she would have probably set the Mountain on him. I was I was genuinely scared for Jaime, and that that was season seven. I was like, oh, shit. Is she really is she really gonna do it? And, you know, well, she didn't. There there was a there was a part of me that did worry for Jaime, but then

17:49KT: I think it was in the same episode or it was very close to that where she kind of bluffed with Tyrion as well. And if she wasn't gonna kill Tyrion, she wasn't gonna kill Jaime.

17:58Cristian: Oh, for sure. Now I will say this, Jaime's an asshole. What he did to Brienne was fucked up.

18:06KT: He's like, oh, okay. So oh, Tormund is interested? Interested? I I love love oh, oh, I I love love me me a a good good Tormund. Tormund.

18:12Cristian: Right? And he just is like, oh, no. No. No. I I know she's interested in me, so I'm a go do that and screw you. It just felt more like No. But Tormund should never be anyone's first.

18:12KT: Why not?

18:12Cristian: I've been I don't know. I I mean, the giant slayer, you really want that as your first?

18:12Oti: That's that's a good point that I never considered.

18:34KT: Yeah. I think he has, like, a tender side to him, light some candles, put on some Barry White. No. No.

18:42Cristian: What? No. No. No. Giant's pain? I don't think so.

18:46KT: I'm sure there's some fan fiction out there. Definitely. And this is, like, this has given me an idea if I had enough time and if I had enough heartache to start a podcast on. This is a very common trope within, like, TV and movies. Like, the popular guy deflowering the the girl that doesn't really get attention as a way to help her, like you're doing her a favor. Why is that a thing?

19:12Cristian: I I don't know. I don't know. And he just straight up right after, he's like, oh, I'm a I'm a terrible person. Want me. Yeah. Like, I gotta go back to my terrible sister. I have to go handle that. Yeah. That that whole part, it's like, man, what a what a dick. Like, he didn't have he could have just left and gone to Cersei. You know? He didn't have to do that to her.

19:36KT: Do you think when so after he fought the Greyjoy, the uncle, Euron? After he fought Euron Greyjoy, and he had a fatal wound. So he wasn't really going to last much longer as far as we know, but there are rumors. Right? So after he pretty much got that fatal wound, do you think he went back to Cersei because he knew that there wasn't any semblance of him living? So he was like, okay. Let me just die with my sister, or you think he did that as a true act of love?

20:00Cristian: No. I think I think in his mind, they were going to escape. I mean, he saw the dinghy, and, you know, he he it was so much he cared so much about Cersei that when he saw a fuck boy, Greyjoy, he was just like, hey, we gotta go help Cersei. Like, he didn't even care that it was, like, him. He just wanted to get to her. So, no, I think in his mind, he he thought he was gonna survive. What I would have loved to have seen, because I don't think Cersei suffered enough,

20:25Cristian: is I thought that they were going to he was going to rescue her, they were going to get to the dinghy, they were going to take off into the water, and in the water, he was going to die. And then Cersei would have been truly alone with no one. And I I just figured, oh, that that would have been such a great, sad, tragic ending for her. But, they gave her the the falling on the building.

20:49KT: Yeah. I think there were there was a lot of outrage because essentially, she died from rubble. And for for all of the evilness that she spawned out into Westeros, she definitely deserved, I think, a more painful death.

21:00Oti: Oh, yeah. For sure. Oh, I think it was fine the way she died to me. Like, she died with Jaime, seeing Jaime all battered and wounded. That's the worst thing she could have ever seen. She doesn't really care about herself per se in terms of, you know, she was ready to kill herself, to kill herself and Tom was a kid.

21:00KT: Tommen. But that was that was seasons ago.

21:00Oti: No. But it just shows you that how much she'd prefer to die than to let anyone see them suffer.

21:29Cristian: Now I will say when she where she did suffer was her like, watching her lose the battle. Because in her mind, she's like, I got this. We took down one dragon with the scorpions. This is gonna be cake. And,

21:44Cristian: like, just having her hand tell her, like, hey, we need to go. Said, no, no, no. Euron's gonna take out the dragon with the scorpion. It's like, no, the fleet is gone. And it's like, okay, well, we still have scorpions here. No, those are gone too. And when they breached the, the kingdom, it's it was just just seeing all that confidence just slowly drain at her was was the best. But not enough.

22:06Oti: But not enough. It was it was great, but not enough. I know a lot of people had these theories before even the season started, how they'd wanted Arya or Sansa to be the one to kill Cersei. And I think that's one one of the things that drove the petitions, like, oh, our theories are wrong, and we did get what we wanted. Yeah. Like Yeah. Babies.

22:27Cristian: They're just babies. You know what? And, like, it's I guarantee you, those are all Americans. They'll those are definitely all Americans. I said it. Position. People are very no. It's true. Their people are just very soft here. It's just, you know, that's the show. Get over it. You know? There's gonna be more shows. There's gonna be spin offs. We're, like, we're gonna we're still gonna get great stuff.

22:49KT: Is is there anything else to capture off about Cersei and Jaime? Because we've got other characters that we should probably capture off from the last episode.

22:49Cristian: Not that I can think of. I think that's fine.

22:49KT: Let's let's let's circle back to Daenerys. So there came a pivotal point in the battle where the Lannister army surrendered. And that would be the time to, you know, grant amnesty and move on in a maybe not in a happy sort of world, but, you know, move forward in ways of how to live better together.

23:22KT: And what did what did old Daenerys do?

23:25Oti: To ghost.

23:27KT: Rampage. She went on a bloody path of rampage.

23:31Cristian: Well, so I guess I'll play devil's advocate. I mean, she did see, like, I forget her name. Missandei.

23:40KT: Yeah.

23:41Cristian: She was the most beautiful one of all of all like, she saw her beheaded. Jorah's dead. Half of her first people, the the horse guys. Dothraki. Dothraki, gone. The unsullied, half of them, gone. And,

24:01Oti: you know doesn't want to fuck her anymore.

24:03Cristian: Yeah. I mean, that was that was one of the parts where I thought it sold her character a little short where, you know, she tries to kiss him and he pulls away. That's his right. You know? He's like, hey. Consent is very important. And and when she says, okay. If it won't be love, then fear. It's like, ah, really? Because you didn't get the dude, like, now? But I I will just chalk it up to all her advisers dying. And everyone was turning on her. I mean,

24:33Cristian: Varys was trying to poison her. You know? Like, her paranoia was accurate. So I can I can understand seeing, like, alright? I'm gonna I'm gonna wreck some shit. You know? But that then that's the thing. Tyrion,

24:47Oti: for being smart and seeing shit throughout the whole season, throughout the whole series of Game of Thrones, could not see Daenerys being a loose end at this point.

25:00Cristian: I chalk it up to the same thing as Jon is blind loyalty.

25:04KT: I think he was blind he want he was seeing what he wanted. Not even like, is the way that I admired and Tyrion's one of my favorite characters, like, even in any sort of TV show. With Tyrion, he was he was always where the truth was, and he even betrayed his own family because what they were doing was fucked up. Right? So for someone that has such a high standard of morality in in his distorted sort of morality, but in for someone that would follow the truth and where things make sense,

25:39KT: it didn't do that. It didn't make sense that he would follow Daenerys even in her spiraling into insanity.

25:45Cristian: No. Yeah. I get I just I would just I mean, I I agree. But I I guess in order for me to buy it, it's just that it's just that he was completely loyal to her, and he want he wanted it to work.

26:00Oti: I guess so. But from I'd expect that from Jon Snow because I've not really expected much from him throughout the whole thing. But Tyrion just had a different level to him, a different sort of intellect that he was a couple of steps ahead of everyone else.

26:15Cristian: Well, I I and they kinda hinted that, yes, he's very intelligent, but he he's human. He makes mistakes. I mean, like, with the whole in ex or the exchange with him and Sansa, you know, he's like, you believed Cersei that she would help? Like, I thought you were the cleverest man in the realms in all the realms. So I think he believed because of her love for her children that she would help out, but, you know, he was wrong. I mean, he's not he's not perfect.

26:43Cristian: He's right most of the time, but, you know, those are just he made two mistakes and they were they were really, really big ones.

26:51KT: Something that I thought was that that just doesn't make mathematical sense to me is we've had there's been five episodes. Right? So let's just say, generously, there's been, like, six hours worth. Or even the last three episodes of season seven, because nothing happened in those last three episodes. I feel like the pacing is really weird because all of this sort of undoing and all of this turning against Daenerys is all it seems like it's all happening quite quickly,

27:18KT: like and it all needs to, like, wrap up quite soon even though there's been big stretches of the long night, if you will.

27:26Cristian: Well, the pacing changed when they ran out of George's material. When it was George's material, it was all very character based, character driven, character growth. I mean, if you go back and watch season one, how much fighting and action was There wasn't really a whole lot. So, I think when they ran out of his great material, and they started to, you know, wing it on their own, it changed the pace a lot. You know, we get the whole traveling

27:53Cristian: from one side of the realm to the other, and like, you know, I don't know, a couple hours, like, with the whole when Jon and the crew is stuck behind the wall and Daenerys flew with her dragon and she got there really fast. I just think pacing changed when they ran out of the book material. Yeah.

28:10KT: That makes sense. I appreciate the bookish sort of context we're getting from you. But even okay. So let's let's go back to Jon Snow who really doesn't interest me at all. Like, I don't need an upgrade in my software. He has integrity. He's very loyal, but that also makes him very boring. Like, I've said this before. You can name him bastard number one, and I would just keep on moving. Like, I wouldn't wouldn't bat an eyelash. But for him to be a Targaryen, do you think in in any sort of way that informs

28:49KT: how things are going to end, or do you think it was just a nice twist to have?

28:55Cristian: I don't think the Targaryenness is gonna play at all. If you read the books, and I'm forgetting her name, but his stepmother, or I guess, step aunt, who hated him. Catelyn? She, yeah, Catelyn. She would look at Jon, and out of all the children, he had the most Stark in The other children resembled more of her family. And I think that's kinda, that's the connection between him and his uncle, Ned. You know, they were both extremely loyal, and the Starks are known for that. So,

29:29Cristian: I I don't think that's the Targaryenness is gonna play out. I mean, he didn't get the benefit of being fireproof. Yeah. He can ride the dragon, but that's I mean, Tyrion also touched the dragon. I don't think the Targaryen has played too much in there. I think you're right. I think it was just kind of a twist that was thrown in there. I don't think anything's gonna come of it. I don't think he's gonna take the throne. I think at the end, he's just gonna go, yo, I'm a go back with Tormund and Ghost and just hang out, you know, past the Wall.

29:57Oti: I think he'll blame himself for letting Daenerys do it, like destroying the whole city. He'll take it upon himself to just say, oh, this is my fault. I didn't listen. I was warned. I just didn't see it. No.

30:13Cristian: For sure. And he's I'm I think he's mad at his own people. I mean, we saw someone from the North trying to rape one of the women, and he took them out. I think he's I think he's done with his people as well.

30:26KT: I think he yeah. He I think he's just done with all of it pretty much. Who who do you see yourself taking the throne? Well, who who do you think will and who do you want to?

30:37Cristian: That's the one thing I I don't know. I could try to guess a lot of things. It my gut would tell me that Tyrion would be a good leader. Mhmm. But he's gonna die. Yeah. So he's gonna be killed. I don't know, to be completely honest. I don't think Jon's gonna take it. I I I

30:57KT: I don't know. And sometimes sometimes it's not and sometimes it's nice to not have a presumption of who it's gonna be because then you can just enjoy the journey.

31:07Cristian: All I will say is that people are gonna be pissed off regardless of what's gonna happen. People are gonna be mad and probably have another

31:07KT: Well, if it's Bran, I will be jumping on that petition. You'll see me at the top of the list.

31:07Cristian: No. I think he's gonna he'll probably three eyed raven the dragon. I I think it's gonna have a scene where Daenerys is gonna try to Dracarys Jon, and either Arya's gonna kill her or Bran is gonna take over the dragon and prevent it. I think either

31:38Cristian: Arya's gonna kill Daenerys right before she tries the Dracarys Jon, or that Bran is gonna take over the dragon and prevent it. I think that's and, obviously, it's there's gonna be a face off between Jon and Grey Worm, and, obviously, Jon Jon's gonna win.

31:56KT: Yeah. I I did watch, like, a really brief interview with George R. R. Martin, and I think it was from years ago. But they were asking, you know, who's someone that's hard to write for because, notoriously, he says that Tyrion's one of his favorite sort of characters to write for. And he said that Bran is one of the hardest characters for him to write for, also because he's the youngest in Game of Thrones. And I think that makes a lot of sense.

32:21Cristian: Yeah. I I I mean, I've been watching a couple interviews with him, and I think he he I think he's kinda written himself in a corner, which is why he hasn't written any more of the books. I think he had ideas and plans that he wanted to do. Readers of the books and watchers of the show figured it out, so he's like, okay, I have to switch this. Because he he likes surprising people and catching people off guard.

32:46Cristian: And I think because people were guessing accurately and correct, I think he's just kind of wrote himself into a corner. And I don't I don't know. I don't even know if he's gonna finish the books, to be honest. He might just leave them.

32:58KT: Yeah. Because I'm sure no one will miss those books or want those books.

33:03Cristian: Well, I mean, he's he's an older guy. I mean, he's an older guy. He's got two more books. Since the first book came out, it's been about twenty three years.

33:03KT: Oh, really?

33:03Cristian: Yeah. So, I mean, that's that's a long, long time. He's passed The Dark Tower of Stephen King. So Stephen King was twenty two years total, I believe. So who knows?

33:25KT: Well, I think I think it's always good to, like, let legends be legends. Like, let great things be great things. Like, don't turn into JK Rowling and start making up things because you wanna be relevant again.

33:40Cristian: I just I could hear a lot of people getting mad.

33:43KT: It's what I do. I'm all about the salaciousness.

33:48Cristian: Like, hey, I love it. Go for it. Those comments weren't by me, by the way. Those were not sanctioned by nerds. They were not in touch.

33:58KT: I don't want any of the Harry Potter fans coming out. I'm just waiting for our invite to your podcast. I know it's definitely going to ramp up now.

34:05Cristian: No. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. You guys are welcome anytime.

34:09KT: So, Oti, do you wanna do you have any sort of envisionings of who's going to take the throne or who you want?

34:17Oti: I think Tyrion has to take the throne. I don't think he'll though he'll be killed. I think he will be. He'll find a way. I'm sure he'll find a way.

34:25Cristian: He's little. He can hide. Yeah. He's

34:28Oti: probably hiding under a rock somewhere. He's just waiting. Yes. Waiting is time. There will be no one better to lead the kingdom other than Tyrion.

34:37Cristian: You know what I was hoping they would do, I was really, really hoping, and I felt like it would have been great TV, is if Gendry would have tried to maybe not try to take the throne or someone brought up the fact that he he has a rightful claim as the bastard son of Robert. You know? Robert took over. He successfully took over the realms, and I was really hoping that there was gonna be some kind of conflict or face off, but nope. Hey. You're not a bastard anymore. You get this castle.

35:06Cristian: Okay. Have fun. You know? It's it's like, there there there would have been great drama right there that that they just kinda let go.

35:21KT: Yeah. And I think if if you were to visualize a four quadrant sort of scale, you have people that are skilled and valuable, and then you have people that are not in want of power. And Gendry is not skilled and powerful, so he's probably not the best person to be.

35:28Oti: Well, he's a he's a great blacksmith.

35:33KT: Well yeah. That's exactly right. He doesn't need to be the king. Definitely.

35:36Cristian: No. He's got a ton of work fixing King's Landing, so, you know, he's he's gonna get paid.

35:44KT: I think one of one of the most interesting things is, you know, watching something and consuming something for what it is, but then going on the Twitter later on and just seeing that people are watching things completely differently. I think it was in the first episode of season eight. There was this big hubbub about Gendry and how he's the playboy of the show, and we just didn't see that at all. But there were, like, compilation clips of Gendry, and it it was ridiculous.

36:11Cristian: No. No. Excuse me. Podrick is the playboy of Game of Thrones. Podrick can get it. I'm still waiting to see his pain. Dude, he pulled two girls in the North in the background. If you go back I think it's past the Starbucks cup debacle. You see him in the background talking to two girls. He puts, like, one arm over the other one, and they walk away as, like, yo, my man just left with two girls. Like, that is awesome.

36:37KT: It is. And then do do you think it's do you think it's the emotion, or do you think it's the size? Let's let's unpack These are these are important. Well, you know, you fully romanticized him, so let's sexualize him.

36:50Cristian: I I figured it's it's gotta be both. I mean, if he I mean, Tyrion got him a whore. They get paid. That is what they do. Had a few. A few. Yeah. And they were like, yeah. No. We don't need the gold. That was awesome. Like, I'm saying it's both. I'm saying he's hung and emotion. Oh, definitely both. And he can sing as well. But I don't think oh, that's true. Yeah. So you can have, like serenade right after serenading. Yeah.

37:20Cristian: Yeah. I guess if anyone who plays D and D, he's definitely a bard. He can sing, and he gets laid. So what do you think of Sansa?

37:28Oti: She leads the North?

37:31Cristian: Oh, for sure. Jon doesn't want that either. She should have been a little bit more tactful of how she was just gonna tell It was very easy for Daenerys to figure it out. And Daenerys was right. You know? Yeah. That's one thing where I do agree with Daenerys.

37:49Cristian: Jon should not have told them. If he was serious about that her being the queen and he was gonna follow her, he should've just kept his mouth shut. Everyone lies to their family. Everyone lies to their family. It's like, dude, just don't tell them. They've never known. They've known.

38:06KT: Know I'm coming from a frame frame of reference where I don't care for Daenerys, so I might be biased, but maybe her pussy was whack. Maybe it wasn't as good as you maybe maybe her pussy was fire, but not in a good way.

38:15Cristian: I I

38:17KT: don't know. I don't know.

38:20Cristian: So Or or Jon just got a magic dick. Maybe it's the other way. I mean, dude, she was ready to just throw everything away for that d.

38:28KT: Maybe. Who knows? We we are asking the world's biggest questions.

38:34Cristian: Yep. Podrick's dick, dick size, and Daenerys' fire pussies. But

38:40KT: not in the good way. We need to we need to preface that. That's very important. Let's talk about and and just out of respect, I'll say Clegane. Let's talk about Clegane and Mountain because for seasons, there's been a buildup of their standoff. And I I think it's a very good dynamic that works in a lot of movies and TV shows of brothers fighting each other. You know, years and years of resentment where it it it's it's play fighting when you're young, and then it just becomes full on fighting and combat

39:13KT: as you get older. Let's talk about them.

39:16Cristian: I so I love the Hound's character. He was true through and through throughout his he wanted revenge. That's all he saw. He didn't care about anything else. And the fact that he cared for Arya as much as the Hound could, I wouldn't I think in the beginning it was more like protection, and it later grew on to respect as an equal. But that one scene where he tells her, You don't want to be like me. This is not You still have a chance, but this is the outcome if you're gonna do what you So wanna

39:49Cristian: I thought I thought that was pretty cool. That was and when she when she turns it on, I think, did she say? You're a good man? She turned and said something. And in the the awesome Han Solo, hound ish way, didn't say anything, you know, didn't say it back. So I felt like those two had the best arcs in Yeah. The Definitely.

40:08Oti: Yeah. The fight scene was what I expected. Well, I thought Mountain would pretty much just beat the Hound with one blow since he was all modified into whatever thing that was.

40:23Cristian: He was the Darth Vader mountain.

40:25Oti: Pretty much. And He was just a a very beefed up Vader. I didn't expect the Hound to last that that many punches in.

40:36Cristian: He was fueled by, you know, years. Yeah. And years and years of hatred. You know, that shit will take you far in a fight. Yes.

40:44KT: On the, like, on the scale of strength in Game of Thrones, would we say Mountain is pretty much up there?

40:51Oti: Yeah. He is definitely the strongest.

40:54KT: Yeah. Strongest. I think strength was. Yeah. Cool stop. Yeah. Period. We can just pack up and go home now?

41:00Cristian: I mean, who would you say would be stronger?

41:01KT: I don't know. I'm just wondering what or even what was you guys mentioned the giant's name. What's that giant's name? The one with the one eye.

41:10Cristian: Well, that doesn't count.

41:10KT: Wun Wun? Wun Wun? Does that not count because he's not really human?

41:10Cristian: But then Well, I mean, we're if we're talking humans and, I mean, he's a humanoid, I wouldn't I mean I I don't think I don't think it's fair to compare a giant to a human. So but if we're if we're going to, then obviously, yes, Wun Wun, the giant would be stronger. But I would say, definitely the Mountain. Now he wasn't the best fighter, but he was definitely the strongest. Yeah. That full brunt

41:37KT: and brawn.

41:38Cristian: Yeah. Although he showed a lot of skill in that last battle when the Hound was swinging his sword. I mean, you can see him, like, moving and dodging. And at one point, he even kicks the sword. So I I don't know if dying, he grew some more. But he was he was showing some skilled sword fighting for sure.

41:58KT: But the Mountain killed my Pedro and I will never forgive the Mountain for that.

42:02Cristian: Oh, yeah. He was by far my favorite character. And that was the most irritating that's that's one death scene I can't go back and rewatch, when he squishes his head and, like, the scream he gives out just felt so real.

42:20KT: Matched my scream when I was watching it.

42:24Cristian: Well, it was pride. He killed himself, really. I mean, he had him dead to rights. All he had to do is just stay away. Just arm's length, bro. You had a spear. Like, you didn't need to be that close.

42:36KT: Was a showman.

42:39Cristian: He was. And and and I get it. He had him on the ground, and it was just it's like, dude, all you had to do was just stay away. That's all you had to do.

42:48KT: But, yeah, that that was really rough to watch. But any anytime I can see Pedro Pascal be a sexed up playboy, I'm here for. Fucking love him.

42:59Cristian: Yeah. No. He was he was definitely he was definitely one of the one of the greater characters.

43:05KT: Him and Tyrion are probably and Tormund, but Tormund because he's ridiculous. Yeah. And is he oh, have we pretty much is that pretty much the end of Tormund? Are we never going to see him again now?

43:16Cristian: I doubt it. Him and Ghost. You know, if anything if anyone should have started a petition, it was for Ghost leaving and how Jon did Ghost nasty like that. Like, bro, you can't give him a hug? You can't go Yeah. A lot of shitty. Like, come on. Yeah.

43:28KT: And I'm pretty sure Ghost has saved the day more than Jon Snow has.

43:33Cristian: Oh, and the thing and what's was really irritating is the go the the guys who fund the show were saying, like, oh, yeah. We don't have enough money. It was really hard to CG Ghost. But yet they went back and CGI'd and erased the Starbucks cup. Like, yo, you got erased Starbucks cup money, but we don't got Ghost money. Like, come on, guys. Like,

43:54KT: that was that was I was just about to mention that because someone in your podcast talked about the budget went all for the dragon, and there wasn't enough for Ghost as well. So I appreciate the love you give to Ghost.

44:04Cristian: Oh, yeah. For sure. He was he was awesome. Yeah. And the books are very very wolf heavy too.

44:08Oti: I was I was holding out to see Nymeria come back.

44:13Cristian: To oh, now

44:15KT: That seems like it's never gonna happen. That. Yeah. When she didn't really acknowledge Arya anymore. No. That wasn't Nymeria. Arya Oh, who's Nymeria? Sansa's one? No. Like, Arya's No. Sansa's was Sansa? Sansa's was killed.

44:29Cristian: Arya's was the one that she sent free. But, you know, the the wolves are obviously a reflection of their spirits, and, you know, Arya is wild. She's not a dame or madam or lady. She doesn't do courts and same thing with her wolf. She's wild and she needs to be out running and murdering and eating things.

44:50KT: Yeah. And I I did I did shed a few tears throughout Game of Thrones, and 80% of it was about the direwolves.

44:58Cristian: Yeah. They they they got it rough, and particularly Robb and his wolf. They they got they got it very forgettable character, though.

45:07KT: Because we because I I only recently started watching Game of but Oti has been watching Game of Thrones forever, and he didn't even pick up that he was in the Bodyguard.

45:16Oti: I'm just really bad at faces. I was watching the Bodyguard. Was like, oh, okay.

45:24KT: He's like, oh, all these my kids are in my family. They all look alike. Again, you said it.

45:30Oti: Yeah. That's fine. I'll I'll own it. And then KT comes over like, oh, that's Robb. Like, what do you mean?

45:37KT: I think he's less recognizable than that drummer from Coldplay that was in Game of Thrones.

45:43Cristian: Oh, no. No. No. What was it? The ginger you're talking about. Right?

45:47KT: No. Not Ed Sheeran. The the drummer of Coldplay was in the Red Wedding playing a drummer.

45:47Cristian: Oh, really?

45:47KT: It's a whole thing. I'll send you a link, dude.

45:56Cristian: I had no idea. I don't know. All these white people say it.

46:02KT: Well, we're not disagreeing with you. We're super PC around here. All the PC babies will love us. There we go. There's a sound bite right there. Okay. Well, let's capture off. Is there well, we're pretty much culminating to the end of Game of Thrones as we know it, because I'm always about hyperbole. And there's going to be one more episode left. Do you guys have any final thoughts? Is there anything that you wanna say? Are there any characters that you feel didn't get enough love or got too much love like Samwell? Just

46:38KT: like, do you do you wanna capture our final thoughts?

46:40Cristian: Like, how many people died so Sam could survive? Right? Thank you. Thank you. No. But, I mean, I you know, he's probably I mean, the theory is that he's the one who wrote the story of Fire and Ice, so obviously, he had to survive. It does suck that a lot of characters had to die in order to keep him alive,

47:05KT: but I I don't have anything against Sam. I feel like Samwell Tarly is George R. R. Martin, and that's why he's that lovable

47:05Cristian: Oh, he said it. He's a

47:05KT: oh, really? Oh, there you go. Yeah. He he because I'm like, how does he become the most pivotal person to the story?

47:21Cristian: Oh, no. Yeah. Martin said that that he he based that character off of himself. He's like, I would be the bumbling idiot who would almost die multiple times. I don't like how much I I'm syncing with the show. Need to log off.

47:35KT: Anything else, Cristian? Save me. No.

47:41Cristian: There's just there's there's gonna be people are gonna be pissed. I think there's a lot of plot subplots that aren't gonna get closed, like the the Faceless Men, you know, we never really got too much answers That was on so interesting, though. Right. And, you know, it was they don't they did so little with it. And Syrio Forel, Arya's dance teacher, he he alone took on or, like, with a fucking wooden sword, took out four armed guards. And there was also I mean, you don't see him die.

48:18Cristian: And there was a scene with Arya and the Hound where when she's telling the list of the people she's gonna kill, and she mentions the dance instructor or the water dance instructor, and the Hound asked, like, who killed him? And I forget the bastard, you know, knight who killed him. And he laughed, and he said, like, oh, that any,

48:38Cristian: like, any horse son with a knife with a butter knife could have killed him. So I was like, I always figured, oh, he must be alive, or maybe he was a faceless man because he was from Braavos. There's just so many things that they could have done that they left they left alone.

48:55KT: Yeah.

48:56Oti: Yeah. I don't know. I'm just ready for it to end. I'm not

49:03KT: That's my line.

49:04Oti: I'm not nostalgic or anything. Like, it's been it's had a great run. It's given us all it could. I think Arya is one of the most favorable favorite characters in this. She has been consistent throughout. I think one of the only ones. Sansa hasn't really done anything in the show other than the first few episodes. And even that, you know? Yeah.

49:28Cristian: Yeah. I mean, she was right about Daenerys. Don't trust her. You know? I think her I think her gut was right, but how she went about it could have been better. I think that could you could rename the whole show to that title right there. Well, I I mean, I hope Tyrion makes it. I hope he survives. I I doubt it, but I'm hoping.

49:48KT: Yeah. I think I think once you allow yourself to just

49:53KT: accept what's going to happen or what will happen and not run a petition on it, you're pretty much in a good place. I don't really think I have any sort of semblances of what I want to happen. I do want to see some pod pain or at least let him be like the new lord Baelish, and he can run his own sort of brothel. And, you know, he won't even need to pay anyone because he'll just give them that good dick, and they'll be fine.

50:18Cristian: And that oh, that's how he's gonna pay his workers? He's just just with the d? I that would satisfy us all and I'm speaking on behalf of everyone.

50:26KT: Yeah.

50:26Cristian: But I'm down. Write write that show and we'll we'll pimp it out and I'll sign

50:33KT: Let me get my typewriter. Am I in the right century? But, yeah, I'm I'm pretty much fine. Brienne pretty much had her storyline fulfilled. I'm not really looking for anything new to happen, But that's pretty much it. Cristian, do you know much about the prequels and what it's going to cover?

50:52Cristian: I believe it's gonna be Robert's Rebellion. Nice. That'd good. Yeah. Yeah. I think I mean, yeah, that'd be that'd be great. It'd be cool to see the, you know, Robert or, yeah, Robert fight, the Targaryen. I forget his name. I think it was Rhaegar. That should be a great fight scene. There's so much to do, and we finally get to see Ned back, which would be great. Although, it's not gonna be it's not gonna be the great Bean, but it would be someone I I believe that's what they're planning on covering. Yeah.

51:26KT: Sounds sounds interesting. I don't know if that might be a journey that Oti and Cristian, you need to take alone without me. You won't get me. And I think Oti will appreciate that because I'm just shouting at the screen every two seconds. But I Just like just getting mad at the screen. But but not like a mad queen sort of way. Just mad queen. Like, yes, queen. Just all the queens with pod. So let's let's wrap up. In our podcast, we do have a segment called For Your Reference,

51:57KT: which is our name. We're pretty cool like that. And it essentially covers, you know, if you've watched Game of Thrones, if you liked it or if you didn't like it, these are movies and TV shows that you would recommend to people to try out.

51:57Cristian: In reference to this show?

51:57KT: To Game of Thrones. Yes. If you would like to. Oh.

52:16Cristian: I don't know. I guess I mean, the closest thing I would say would be Lord of the Rings, but with less boobs, I guess.

52:22KT: Would be And, yeah, and don't withhold your boobs because you start to get famous. I'm looking at you, Daenerys. We got to see her wet titties, like, for the first few seasons, and then she just left them away from us.

52:38Cristian: Yo. That's what fame does. You know? You start getting famous. You could start setting your own rules. She got too big for her own britches.

52:45KT: Or shirts. Fur and shirts. So that's that's one thing that that's one qualm that I have, and the second one is a titty to dick ratio.

52:53Cristian: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Cody Cody, I don't know if you've heard the episode where he agrees that there should be more dicks. The it's the he he he has a three dick rule. There should be at least three dicks in in Three dick rule. Three dicks. I don't know why three, but that's just his his sweet spot.

53:12Oti: Oh, came Game of Thrones after watching South Park. And South Park had this episode where it referenced a lot of, like, sex scenes with Gay sex. Yeah. With with with penises flying all around. Yeah. And then when she started watching Game of Thrones, it was like no dicks at all. I was in for a good time. I was like, is this the Mormon version or what?

53:31Cristian: Nope. No. Not enough dicks in cinema, man. We we don't get enough

53:35KT: we don't get enough screen time. And if you think about the Internet, there are way more free dicks out there.

53:41Cristian: Oh, yeah. Yeah. People just throwing out dick pics like that. Yeah.

53:45KT: I love how this is the way we're going to end it. Does anyone want

53:49Cristian: anyone wanna change the topic? No? We just No. I could we can talk more dicks if you'd like. Sure. I'm from San Francisco. This shit's no difference to me. Whatever.

53:58KT: All the dicks. All the dicks. Dicks everywhere. Well, stay tuned for our spin off or our dick off.

54:06Oti: Well, thank you so much, Cristian. We've loved having you.

54:06Cristian: Yeah. It was fun.

54:06Oti: Yeah. Thank you so much. And welcome to end of the episode we'll be doing. You've been really great.

54:16Cristian: Thank you for having You guys are also welcome to come on whenever you guys like. Although, we'll have to work on the time because it gets a little wacky with me being here in San Francisco. Live in the future.

54:28KT: There we go. Did you wanna plug your socials or plug your podcast?

54:33Cristian: Yeah. So www.nerdswithfriendspodcast.com. On Twitter, nerds with friend because we ran out of space. Same with Instagram, nerd with friend. Tweet at me. I will respond. I love hearing from people. Nice.

54:51KT: And we're @ForYourRefPod in most places, and that's the end of our show. Thank you so much, guys.

54:57Oti: Yep. Thanks, madam. You too. See you.