Belly – Shameek shall inherit the earth

Full transcript of Belly – Shameek shall inherit the earth.

0:00KT: Welcome to another week in the For Your Reference household. And we're starting off with a very exciting patron announcement. Shout outs to Jamie Russell. He is a very learned man of all of the films and all of the teachings. Thank you so much. It really means a lot to have your support and amongst all of our beloved friends and lovers. We also wanna lay tribute and honor Earl DMX Simmons, rest in love and peace and power. We are going to sip on something, reminisce, and live a little bit longer in the life and legacy

0:38KT: of DMX. Let's get on with the show. Hey friends and lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT. And Oti. Steady. Are you ready? Hold on to your Rottweiler privates and meet me on the steamy couch for sloppy banana eating lessons. Oh. This week, we navigate the streets and the sheets with the 1998 film, Belly. Oti, what a time.

1:35Oti: What a time indeed.

1:37KT: And there is no better time to give people their flowers while they're alive and also after. DMX means a lot to the For Your Reference household. I think even in the last episode, very many times we referenced DMX playfully when we talk about a character that is all about rampage and just ready to burn all the shit to the ground. And that definitely reflects in the film that we're talking about today. So, you know, there's gonna be a lot of emotions today, be it full on DMX or even the more tender moments

2:15KT: as well. How are you feeling Oti?

2:18Oti: I'm feeling good. I think after watching this movie, we had a lot of thoughts, but it was good seeing Al do his thing And we just love him.

2:18KT: Oh, absolutely. So let's get into just the general sort of stats or information

2:35KT: in regards to the film. And I think first impressions, we're gonna live in that space a little bit more than we usually do. So we have director Hype Williams who we'll get to we'll get to Oti's reaction in a second. Hype Williams is also credited as writing as well as Anthony Bodden as well as Nas. The Nas. The same Nas that was a character in the film, but maybe was just Nas.

2:35Oti: Yeah. Nastradamus, man.

3:05Oti: This was an extension of the Nastradamus album.

3:08KT: The universe. Universe. So we have obviously starring Nas, DMX, and Taral Hicks, as well as a whole slew, including Sean Paul. Yeah. There was a temperature and it stuck like glue Oti. Who said we couldn't be a film and music podcasters friends and lovers?

3:30Oti: Give him the nil drop around for his money, Yeah,

3:33KT: exactly. It had a budget estimated of $3,000,000. Cool. It probably went to all of the blue filters. Does this qualify as a Oti blue film? It almost does.

3:46Oti: Okay.

3:47KT: I think that's in our Nausicaä episode. Oti gives his memories of blue films if you guys know. If you're learned and you're nasty, you probably know what blue films mean. It's good that you're calling it films, elevating their status. If you're fapping with a monocle, it is a film. Alright. Yep. There's some more merch, Oti. A cumulative worldwide gross of $9,600,000. It had a very insular sort of feel. It didn't have the bayerisms,

4:22KT: you know? It was for us at an audience, anyone else wants to watch it, cool, but we're here to tell a story. Yeah. And we're here to shoot a movie long music video apparently.

4:32Oti: Williams come correct.

4:34KT: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So let's get into first impressions. I wanna live in the world of music and also film of DMX. I wanna live in there for a little while. So start us off Oti. So when did you first hear of DMX? I'm assuming it was through his music. Was he big in Kenya? Did he have a big influence on your life? Did you go around barking at other people? How did it all work, my love?

4:34Oti: So, wow. I think a huge chunk of my childhood was just DMX.

5:08Oti: Wow. And he was my introduction to sort of rap music. And it's weird because I really was into his sort of stuff. It was the first tape, cassette tape I owned, you know? Wow. That massive

5:22Oti: for me.

5:22KT: Okay. Hang on. Are we saying like official cassette tape or you heard it on the radio?

5:22Oti: Official cassette tape, mate.

5:22KT: Okay. So you weren't recording. Copy. Okay. Because you know what I'm talking about, your little bootleg

5:33KT: recording off the radio and replaying it.

5:33Oti: Yeah. And I think that's one of the first albums, even as a kid that I listened back to back. And he just had an influence. He had something clicked for me as a kid. And a lot of his stuff, you could tell in his demeanor personality

5:52Oti: that, you know, a lot of this stuff was street level. He was down to earth and I just fucking connected. He was massive. He was massive in my class. And I think it was just this group. We had ours. We had Ruff Ryders merch.

5:52KT: Official?

5:52Oti: It wasn't official, of course, but it was still Ruff Ryders merch. It still counts. Roughy Riders, doesn't matter. Just like my Phat Farm with the reversed p's. Yeah. You know you know, it was like wearing a a a Ruff Ryder 88 football jersey

6:27Oti: or a roughy a Ruff Ryder o eight jersey. You know?

6:32KT: Did do stunts on, like, bikes?

6:32Oti: We

6:35Oti: tried to, and that's one of the far that's one of the reasons why I never even tried and ride my bike anymore because I hurt myself by trying to be a Ruff Ryder.

6:35KT: You're out of the game now.

6:35Oti: Definitely

6:47Oti: out of the game.

6:47KT: We strongly recommend the miniseries Ruff Ryders Chronicles because I don't think up until we watched the miniseries that was released in 2020 that they had a full on operation. They had a stunt crew, the director, everyone understood the whole Ruff Ryder of everything. Right? So it was a lifestyle. It was a lifestyle. Absolutely. I was very sheltered as a child. And even though I had older brothers that would listen to rap, I got sheltered from a lot of that. So

7:20KT: I do feel like I heard DMX without even knowing it was DMX. But if I wanna say consciously, I was introduced to DMX through the masterpiece starring Morris Chestnut and Shad Gregory Moss, otherwise known as Bow Wow.

7:20Oti: Don't say it.

7:20KT: Like Mike. You know, I was saying we haven't covered Morris Chestnut on this podcast and maybe Like Mike was the one to do it. I also thought that we could do Like Mike in tribute to DMX, but I'm pretty sure I've got myself in enough trouble. Oh,

7:58KT: but yes, the the very clean, the cleanest of clean that probably only had 20 words in it Party Up was on heavy rotation.

8:07Oti: And

8:08KT: going back to the miniseries of the Ruff Ryders Chronicles, it was interesting in the way that it contextualized hip hop at a time when Tupac and Biggie were kind of off the scene and rap was kind of becoming a bit more flamboyant. It was a bit more showy. It was about your ice. It was about the grills. It was about, you know, all of the money, the bad boys of it all. Yeah. And DMX was completely in his own lane, still talking about pain and struggle.

8:39KT: Not to say that Bad Boy wasn't capable of it, but there were definitely different aesthetics. It was just a different energy to what Bad Boy wanted. Yeah. Yeah. Which they do cover in the mini series as well. But yeah, DMX is just he just felt like genuine, you know. A lot of the time whether visual to other people, we're battling our own demons. And DMX made that very clear. You know, there were lots of interviews in the mini series where they were talking about him ending concerts with a prayer

9:15KT: and also getting very emotional. It was more than just a concert. So yeah, it's definitely going to be a spot that will be felt that hopefully maybe will never be filled in hip hop.

9:15Oti: For sure. A 100% agree with that.

9:15KT: Let's talk about other legends in hip hop and the music industry. Let's talk about Hype Williams because when we were deciding which film to cover, this was also through Ava DuVernay's tweet talking about how this is one of her favorite films, especially DMX's performance in this. You saw the credit of Hype Williams

9:51KT: and it got you hype.

9:54Oti: Because I for some reason, I assumed there was another Hype Williams out there. What's the probability of that? Because he was he was massive in the in in the early noughties. Everything was just Hype Williams, you know. You could tell by the fucking big font at the start of any music video and Yeah. At the

10:15Oti: So, you know, it was weird that I didn't know that Hype Williams had written and directed the movie. So it was definitely just, yeah, we have to watch it. We definitely have to.

10:15KT: But it it was interesting because for me, at least I felt like it wasn't until

10:30KT: like the late two thousands where you would see like producers or directors. Like, Director X is very big in regards to music videos right now. Melina Matsoukas, go and listen to our Queen & Slim episode. She has done a lot of music videos Formation by Beyoncé specifically. So it is interesting because I didn't realize that there was that sort of tagging and branding even back then. But you completely recognize his name as soon as we saw it. I just wanna quickly go through

11:03KT: music videos that he's directed. Feenin' by Jodeci. What a time to be alive. We also have Notorious BIG, Warning, Big Poppa. We have Brandy, Sitting in My Room. Montel Jordan, This Is How We Do It. One More Chance by BIG again. We have Boyz II Men Vibin', Wu-Tang Clan, a lot of Wu-Tang Clan, Warren G, OutKast, LL Cool J. Also, Hey Lover. Hey Lover is one of my favorite songs. That is the only reason I will forgive you for leaving me. If it's through the storyline and the lyrics of Hey Lover,

11:39KT: Nas and Lauryn Hill, If I Ruled the World, LL Cool J again. It just it goes on and on and on. Mhmm. Wow. Yep. And we'll definitely talk about the directing and the cinematography and the choices in editing as well. But it all Nice & Slow by Usher. Look at that. Love Like This, Faith Evans. Yeah. We could really be here all day. And that's just the nineties. We haven't even got into the 2 thousands, but wow, Oti. This was a lot of movie.

12:10Oti: It was.

12:10KT: Was it was it too much for you to handle or was it just enough?

12:10Oti: It wasn't too much in the sense that I really wanted to love it. And I went towards it having some sort of tax already applied to it because what's not to love? You know, you've got Nas, you've got DMX,

12:28Oti: even Hype Williams to some extent, you know? He he was the fucking basis of whatever the fuck we listened to back then and watched. Yeah. So I had my rose tinted glasses on already watching this. And the way it started, you know, I was like, oh, yes. I'm in for some fucking huge

12:48KT: Let's let's talk about it because I would say that is one of the best opening scenes I've seen in a long time for a film. And and maybe it is, you know, harnessing that filmography

13:01KT: in regards to music videos because it isn't just a music video. Even back then, there was an artistry to creating music videos if you did it well.

13:01Oti: Yeah. Yeah. A 100% agreed. And I think the fast sort of scene, you already know, like, I could tell, fucking Hype Williams. Yes. Of course, this is gonna look like this. It made so much sense.

13:22KT: I I absolutely loved it. This is also a time to say spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. And in musical, maybe not film senses, splooshes, splooshes, splooshes as we talk about this film. But there's a lot of our frame of reference that we choose to leave out the door when we watch things. And usually that means living in the world of drugs. Yeah. Right? Unless you listen to my sentiments in 4 Blocks, But, for you know, there's a lot of crime is bad and we're not gonna dispute whether it is inherently bad or systemically bad.

14:03KT: But yeah, we see these two guys in a club about to fuck shit up. Mhmm. Right? And on a normal instance, probably not great. In a film long music video instance, give me all of the nasty. Give me all of the beautiful bodies. Give me give me the men and all of their chains beating people up. Right? That's exactly what you want. And it really set the tone of what we were going to get into in the film. Yeah, it did. Visually, it was great. It was tantalizing. I would say,

14:35KT: you know, the first twenty to maybe forty minutes of this film was really good in drawing the suspense. Something's gonna happen. Who's going to drop? Where are we going with this? There was a lot of tension building in the first twenty to forty minutes

14:52KT: of this film, and it is bolstered on the foundation of the opening scene of this film.

14:52Oti: Oh, definitely. It really does because we get introduced to the major characters in this. You've got Bundy, Sincere and Knowledge, you know, being mentioned in there. And the sort of difference in lifestyles between Bundy and Sincere and what Sincere aspires to be. So a lot of this was, especially when you're looking artists through the lens of the community that they're from and

15:24Oti: the sort of livelihood that they want to live and what they aspire to. And a lot it, we're getting through Nas's Sincere's commentary, narration rather. And you could tell that a lot of this stuff really did hold dear to how he wanted to live.

15:24KT: He was like using the notes on his iPhone.

15:44KT: Right? What he what he writes down at 2AM and then putting it in the script. Let's talk about the storytelling style because it isn't the first time on this podcast where I've talked about narration. I can't think of, you know, if you were to put me into a corner and ask me where has narration actually worked for me, I wanna be able to answer it. Generally, I'm not really a fan of narration

16:11KT: and I wasn't a fan of narration in this film.

16:11Oti: I don't know. I think I've watched a lot of good movies that have used narration well.

16:11KT: We're talking about this movie though.

16:11Oti: Yeah. But like you've said that you've not watched a lot of movies that narration didn't really, that they didn't use narration properly. And I'm saying that I'm countering that with the fact that we covered Million Dollar Baby, which had narration at its forefront. And I think that did it quite well.

16:11KT: But I'm saying in this film.

16:11Oti: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Didn't really care for it in this.

16:41KT: I was like, when did you become the narration coalition? Because it starts off, I'm pretty sure DMX is the one that starts the film because he talks about selling his soul to the devil and it was cheap. Right? Go and listen to our Passion of the Christ episode. And then it turned into Nas narrating for the rest of the film. So that kind of felt a bit disjointed to me. It's only because it's very obvious, the voices are different. So you could tell it wasn't DMX narrating all of the way through.

17:17KT: But the yeah. I don't think the narration added anything in regards to, I don't know, moving on, stitching the scenes together. And whenever he did try some sort of exposition, it was very obvious what was happening on the screen. Even though Nas has a very poetic way of saying something, very sincere way of saying it, we got it. Like, someone got shot. We got it. We understand.

17:44Oti: Yeah. Yeah. Fully agree with that. I think part of it in his narration, at least, even in some of his lines and delivery, I was like, is he just trying to

17:55Oti: expound on his album here? Like, a lot of it felt really Nas like. And the shock to me when I actually saw that Nas was was credited as a writer in this because it really does show.

17:55KT: Well, I said it at the start of the film, and then I had to remind you that we did see the writing.

17:55Oti: I don't think I paid attention to it. And I was like, wait,

18:14Oti: Nas had to do something with this line.

18:14KT: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. And I definitely wanna focus on the characters. But before we do that, let's focus on the directing and I guess also the cinematography and the choices in editing in regards to this film. How did you generally feel about the directing of this? Because you did make a comment while we were watching this and I would hazard to say that you would also share with our beloved friends and lovers.

18:41Oti: No, halfway through I had felt exhausted. I had felt exhausted because I felt that I needed to fully focus my attention to not miss anything. It felt really Uncut Gems, which I've not felt in ages. Wow. So I felt like a lot of the directing choices made it seem that I needed to concentrate too much. And there was no semblance of serenity

19:05Oti: between any sort of scene. Either you have the score was it like just nonstop, you had music playing in the background wherever, whenever. Sometimes I had to struggle listening and hearing what they had to say. And granted, we had the ability to have subtitles and we did, but it still made me feel it was edge of my seat stuff, not because the story was interesting, not that it wasn't, but just because I felt like missing I'd something if I wasn't fully focused. And halfway through,

19:39Oti: I had used up almost all of my juice in concentration

19:43Oti: that's really

19:47Oti: a good thing when I want to I came with already tax on it that I was eager and excited to watch.

19:54KT: You you've already exhausted your tax quota for the taxation financial year. Yeah. That was interesting. The the fact that you felt the experience that you felt

20:05KT: watching Uncut Gems and you felt it here, that is so wild to me.

20:05Oti: Yeah. Because I felt like it was like, I needed I needed a moment of serenity between scenes. I needed it to calm down a bit. I needed to be able to understand the narrative and the storytelling well and to sort of build this bond with the characters because it felt like scene to scene to scene,

20:29Oti: jump to jump. And I was like, okay, just take me slow. Take me slow. You don't need to ride me the hard.

20:29KT: And snap it off. Go and listen to our Key & Peele episode.

20:29Oti: Just just just just, you know, foreplay foreplay is important. Just take it slow with me, and let me build up this connection with the characters. And let me connect with them in a in in in an environment that doesn't mean we need fully focus on what they're saying, how they're reacting to stuff. Because it was really important, their dialogue.

21:01Oti: Mhmm. Especially when you're putting you know, when when you're thinking about the overall community and the environment that they're coming from. Yep. We had to rewatch a scene with Ox almost five times. Think it was even more than five times. Because it was a fucking resonating and and deep moment. Because at that time I'd already spent my reserve. Like I was on the reserve territory and I couldn't really understand the messaging that he was trying to bring through.

21:27Oti: KT had gotten it. She had thought of, oh, he was just talking bullshit. I was like, oh man, I'm already spent.

21:27KT: But I think we,

21:36KT: friends and lovers, we all come to a point when we're watching a film where there's nothing the film can do to make us care about it any more than we already tried. Right? It's like anything you anything you do is already too late because you had your chances and you fucked up. Yeah. Right? And I definitely wanna go back to Ox and Bundy because that was quite a deep scene and I really wanna get into the detail into that. And I would like to lay flowers

22:09KT: many times and especially this time to Regina King and One Night in Miami because what I'm hearing you saying is that so much was happening, but there were no somber moments where we could digest the scene that just happened and cleanse our palates for what's about to happen.

22:27Oti: Yeah, like it felt Party Up throughout, you know, DMX. Yeah, just give me some somber moments, give me some scenes where serenity might prevail a bit, where I can get to digest what just happened, where I can get to explore the world better, where I can get to reason it with the characters and have some sort of emotional connection because it was just from bam, bam, bam. You know? If you're not talking about Bundy, you're talking about Sincere. If you're not talking about Sincere, it's Kenya and Tia and Kisha and

22:59Oti: Method Man. It was just so much. I was like, mate, mate, you've got something here at the core.

22:59KT: I don't know about you, but I can take all of Method Man. I'm just

22:59Oti: You love your cheese under that.

22:59KT: I do love my cheese.

23:15KT: Yeah. I absolutely agree with you. It was fitting a lot of stuff in, but not letting a lot of it resonate. You know, for our, you know, office drone friends and lovers that can relate, it's like constantly having meetings and having no time to action the action items. Yeah. It just kept going. Or having a really good bottle of red wine and not using the decanter,

23:36Oti: you know, like shit needs to breathe.

23:36KT: Why do you have to

23:41KT: do you have to give more evidence that we're hankers Oti? I'm going to submit Method Man whatever role he's in next to say wine without a decanter. Good. Shout outs to Being Mary Jane with Gabrielle Union because I'm pretty sure there was a guy that was angrily pouring into a wine decanter. Yeah. You think we don't have BET reference friends and lovers? You were fucking wrong. I absolutely agree. I wanna talk now quickly about the editing in this film. There was a lot of like blue overlay,

24:19KT: and I thought they were using it for a particular effect, but they kind of used it everywhere. A very quick example was with Kisha when she was in the bed. Actually, I think every time she was in the bed, it was like a blue light, but not like a UV light. But they had like that blue light on it, it kind of reminded me of Toni Braxton's Be A Man about it. Because it had that sort of aesthetic. But anyway, I'll just leave my Toni Braxton's to myself. And then we also had

24:50KT: some more longer scenes with that whole blue filter on it. And it was when they were driving through Omaha.

24:57Oti: Yeah. Yeah. Like those different sort of coloring throughout the movie and some of it, it just made it hard to see, to be honest. Like, I couldn't even tell who Knowledge was until they, like, shot him clearly midway through the movie. Like, I was like, oh, is that fucking Knowledge? Is is that other character? There's so many things happening and different coloring and different sort of way of presenting this information. Was like, mate, just easy, easy. We've already come out of music video mode. Let's let's calm down a bit with that.

25:37Oti: But I think some of it towards the end or the final half of the movie, we'd already stopped using the blue coloring. I think we didn't see that much afterwards, which is good because, yeah, I really didn't care for it. There was also some orange tinge overlay like me, just easy, man.

26:00KT: It was it was a lot. One other note I have in regards to the editing was when Bundy goes to meet Ox for the first time. I wanna talk about it from a scene point of view, but just specifically in regards to the editing. It got to a point where they overlaid the football game while Ox was talking and he had a particular vernacular to him. So we were trying to focus on what he was saying because they're having a full on conversation

26:29KT: and then they fucking put the football match over it at the same time. What importance does the football match hold over this conversation we are having at the moment? I need to speak to the Safdie brothers of Uncut Gems because I feel like they took a lot of inspiration

26:45KT: from that particular scene.

26:45Oti: Yeah. That was weird. I think we were already struggling. And I think if you went to watch this in a cinema,

26:53Oti: a lot of that conversation would just be over your head.

26:53KT: They they wouldn't should do a double billing of Tenet and Belly and see how much you can actually understand without subtitles. You think Chris Nolan is a wanker? I feel like everyone calls him Christopher, but okay. Okay. We've moved into the other phase, you know? You have your culuminati, luminati. Yeah. But the the editing was a very interesting

27:18KT: choice in this film. I kind of got over the fact that it's Hype Williams and he does a lot of music videos, but I think it's also because that didn't stick with me as a kid. So I wasn't even aware of that. I think do do you think that was part of why you couldn't shake it or you think it was just so distracting?

27:35Oti: No. I don't know. Like, it's an important conversation. And then we have football match going out in the background, be joined in. And then there's this overlay effect where you see Hype Williams on the video and the football playing on soccer being played in the background. I'm like, those

27:53Oti: are some effects that are not really needed here.

27:53KT: There was a lot of decision. There was a lot of decision that was being made and

27:53Oti: Even Ox

28:00Oti: has this really strong accent, granted. But let us focus on that because that was an important storyline. That was an important moment for the movie. Yeah. So for us to be drowned out by football matches did not make sense. Did not make sense.

28:17KT: Yeah. And before we go to the writing, I do wanna talk about one, like director sort of choice that I actually agreed with and also the editing. And it was very early in the film where we have Bundy and Kisha and Sincere and Tionne having sex, and it's like interspersing their sex. And I just made a note that said, the art of making love and fucking. Because I wanted to be in both situations, but they were very, very different.

28:53Oti: Yeah. They are different. They are different. And when it comes to the writing, I think a little bit of it was not to be harsh or anything like that. I think the messaging was there if you paid too close attention, which exhausted me, but the writing felt a bit off because when you you'd have one scene that let's say, Sincere would say one thing, you know, I'm with you, Bundy, through life and death or whatever, I'm with you. And then the next scene, you'd have Sincere saying,

29:29Oti: I thought I told you not to call me no more. When did this happen?

29:32KT: And that's also an editing thing to make sure the story is cohesive, right?

29:32Oti: Yeah, mate.

29:38Oti: While we jumping to this, are we supposed to assume that this conversation happened off screen? Because I don't think we're picky people. We're not the motherfuckers that,

29:48KT: you know, get annoyed at Starbucks

29:50KT: cups in because Game of

29:50Oti: then if you're using narration as a tool, that's where narration should have come in. Yeah. That's why you use narration to give us that exposition because we didn't know what the fuck happened in between.

29:50KT: Yeah. Because I had assumed

30:04KT: because of that, that in the earlier scenes when Sincere was helping him skip town with the car, I thought he had said something like, we're done here. And you're like, no, that never happened.

30:04Oti: Yeah. Because it didn't. And if that was to, you know, you're getting this

30:21Oti: really hot and cold sort of emotions from your two main characters, then we need to understand why that is. And then at the end of that conversation, still get them being boys. Was it a joke? Was it, I really didn't understand that aspect of it and why they chose to do it that way.

30:21KT: Yeah. I just have

30:40KT: something I wanna say in regards to the writing generally, and then we can get into some characters. Yeah? I guess it's not just writing, but generally I know this came out in 1998, but I have to come from the fact that I just watched this in 2021. Stories about getting rich off of being involved in the drug game is not new. Right? Films where you have rappers involved in the production and maybe even starring in it is not new.

31:15KT: And I feel like even at that time, it wasn't new either. Because we talked about Juice earlier as well. I feel like it could have been better. I definitely feel like it could have been better. You know, a lot of the time we talk about authenticity and making sure the people that have the experiences and have stories to tell are able to tell the stories. You

31:37KT: don't want it to be diluted by people not knowing what they're talking about. Right? So there's that part of it. But then there's also you've got the experience of living it or the periphery sort of experience. However, this is a film. Like I said, in our Passion of the Christ episode, and thank you for our friends and lovers that have downloaded it. You need to have a story. There needs to be complication in regards to the protagonist. We need to go through some learning journey

32:09KT: through or a non learning journey through the protagonist and we need to have a satisfying payoff. Right? And from a writing point of view, I didn't really feel that. Sexually, it was like Oti was in the corner rubbing himself out and I was watching. I was not I was not participating. I could see something was happening, but there was no way that I could care or resonate about these characters because the it was just happening in the room where it happened.

32:41KT: Sorry, Lin-Manuel Miranda that I had to make you a reference in a masturbation, but there you go.

32:48Oti: And it's weird, like, you know, we've talked about movies this year that we had this sort of really super intimate moments with characters, be that in Malcolm & Marie, where it felt like we're eavesdropping. To this, it just felt like we, from the outside looking in, where we really didn't have connection to either Bundy or Sincere. We know what they were going through, but did you really care about either of them? No. Not really. But in the context of the storytelling and what they symbolized

33:19Oti: in society and an environment, then maybe yes, but that's later in the movie. That's all you can now, you know? That's the last task, that's the fourth act right, you know? Like you're not getting it now. And to that point, I'm like, cool, you should have done this, you should have layered this in a different way because you heard something at the core of this movie where we're sitting at the underbelly of the fucking beast.

33:45Oti: We know how things work. We are trying to have this exposition around it and how it means for those characters particularly. Yeah. And their struggle to either be right or how they get turned into seeing the effects of their actions has made to society. You know, there's really important messaging. But at the end of it, like you've said, it's a fucking movie.

34:09KT: Yeah. You know? We need to have a we need to be succinct in resonation.

34:14Oti: Yeah. You know, at the end of it, you need to have a Russell Crowe sort of imagination in your mind just screaming, are you not entertained?

34:24KT: Oh, I thought you're gonna say, fuck you, cancer. I absolutely agree with you. And let's talk about the dynamic that was set up at the start of the film. We have Bundy and we have Sincere. As much as they are boys, they are very different in nature and what motivates them as characters. That was very like, those were the grappling hooks in regards to the film. And that's kind of where it frayed as well. It's like a double edged sword. Yeah? And I couldn't help but think of similar dynamics

35:01KT: and continue to disappoint me when it didn't deliver. Right? We're talking about Avon and Stringer in regards to The Wire, we have an episode on that. We're talking about Ghost and Tommy of Power. We also have an episode on that as well. We talk about Franklin and Leon in regards to Snowfall. We also have an episode of that. We're also talking about Abbas and Ali Toni Hamady from 4 Blocks. We also have an episode on that. Like this, again, it's not new to tell stories about the drug game, but also at the same time,

35:38KT: it can be done in a way that is satisfying to the viewer. Yeah. Yeah. In a way that you get bought into the character's

35:47Oti: way of life, you empathize if not sympathize

35:52KT: and Or you can hate them. Like you just wanna watch their downfall.

35:52Oti: Yeah. But neither of those rung true,

35:58Oti: you know? And at the end of it, I'm sitting there at the movie thinking, why save it for last? Why save all that payoff for last? It did not make sense to me. And a lot of the times I was like having this eye rolling moments because if you're familiar with Nas's work, then you're like, yeah, mate, I know you wrote this line, come on now. It might not be to someone else who's watching it, but I was like, cool. You know, you've gotten your messaging in there,

36:27Oti: but to what degree is it distracting or taking away from the movie?

36:27KT: Mhmm. But

36:33KT: that, like, that dynamic was so And if we're just talking about delicious dynamics, Judas and the Black Messiah, we also have an episode, you're welcome, where we talk about Chairman Fred Hampton and Bill O'Neal, that kind of fizzled as well. No spoilers, we're not gonna get into it. But anyway, disappointing, but you have the setup of dynamics. Right? Yeah. That you're like, oh, I wonder what sort of hijinks they're going to get into and it just fucking fizzles. And I feel like that's kind of what this film did. But let's focus on Bundy specifically

37:11KT: as a character.

37:11Oti: He is super off. You can tell that his life has been through the ringer. You can see that he is in a place at least mentally where he doesn't give a shit about anything else other than getting that paper. You know, we had this exposition with Ox when they're having a conversation and he was like really exposing himself and who he was as a character. And I think that's one of the first times we got to see that.

37:39KT: But can we also clarify because this was him trying to get a connect, trying to get a plug, right? He offered nothing. He walked into this 40 house mansion and offered nothing to Ox. Excuse me, but I would think that he should have like offered something, even though Ox has everything and he's super super rich.

38:03Oti: I I don't know. Like There for the definitely story no freebies. There are definitely no freebies. It's more that he would get commissions probably, a cut of every

38:13KT: Well, he had it hanging over his head later, which we see. Yeah. Right? But I'm saying, usually you have to, like, there's an order to things. There's a certain sort of respect. I watch Sopranos. I understand how this works. Like you need to come in with something. The fact that you're inconvenience him trying to watch his game that is being glazed over our eyes at the same time,

38:36KT: it just felt weird to me. But then again, I don't know anything. Right? So maybe that is the way you do it. You just walk into someone's desk and say, hey, give me your connect.

38:45Oti: Yeah, baby. Either way, we do get to see what he stands for. Even in his conversations with Elder Sincere, he says, life is about our paper. You you you you're born to die. Everything in between is our paper. Know, that's his mentality through Ain't no money like dope money. And you could tell that he doesn't really care even when they're having dinner sort of the ending of the movie when there's two

39:13Oti: or there's two The two young kids, so Lekid and Wise. Yeah. Like he was there, gave the nod of the guy to shoot him. Just like

39:21Oti: the guy was off it. He doesn't care.

39:21KT: Well, let's talk about that because if we're talking about character construction, that's kind of where the ass fell out. Right? Because from the start, we meet Bundy and he is all about survival. Yeah? He's ambitious, so he will go to Ox and get the connect. But also at the same time, he's all about survival. Even to the point where I don't think he cared about Kisha that much. He like ran off and let her get arrested. And then he went on the run. Right? He

39:53KT: he jumped through so many hoops. He backflipped into so many stolen cars where he's like, nah. Not me, man. Not me, bruv. Not today. And I I think even a line that he had earlier in the film was if I go back to jail again, I'm going into a bag. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going back to jail at all. Yeah. For sure. He said that. And then he just gave up. Yeah.

40:17Oti: Yeah. Maybe and that's why you're like, where does my tax come in? Because at that at that stage, he's exhausted by everything that has to he's gone through. They've did a flash a flashback of every sort of moment he's been through to the movie where every people a lot of people have died. You know, he's looking at the bodies, and then he's looking at his sort of minion there just lying dead. And maybe he was like, man, fuck this. I've I've had enough. Really? But it wasn't properly

40:47KT: done. And that's the issue. Right? But I that's what I was saying. This could have been a really meaty moment in the film where we have some sort of payoff, not emotional because we've already established there was no Avatar emotional tentacles in this. But yeah, like that could have been a payoff

41:04KT: for this character if it had been written so.

41:04Oti: But that's why I'm telling you, like, don't know where my tack should be put because I understood what he was trying to what Hype and Nas were trying to do in this. I understood it.

41:04KT: Oh, wow. You've stepped out of the box. You've crossed the fourth wall now.

41:04Oti: Yeah. I understood it and I looked at it, but it wasn't executed properly. Yeah. And Tusa, I'm here feeling confused at the end of it because you rarely get a hip hop urban movie like this, which tells such an

41:40Oti: intriguing aspect to the sort of drug life and how it means to society and how everything about uplifting black people, you rarely get that. It wasn't just about titties and ass, it was big and bad. And I'm sitting here thinking, how do I weigh those two? Yeah. My understanding of what they wanted to deliver knowing that they didn't really fully do that or is it because I got it then they did it. And

42:11Oti: those two should be married up and be like at the end of it, or if the message is delivered across to me and I understood what they wanted to do, then, oh, this is an eighth movie because I got it. Where does that line get crossed?

42:26KT: Yeah, I know. I completely agree. TV shows, I would say personally, I love TV shows more than I could name any sort of films. But also at the same time, you get more time with characters in TV as opposed to film. But what that means is it's a different game plan. Yeah, it's a different blueprint because you need to make us care so we can follow along on these adventures, whether it's like loving or hating them, but the hooks weren't in.

43:05KT: And I think that's part of the problem. But I guess ending on a positive note in regards to Bundy's character, DMX, I wanna say it's a prosthetic just for respect. Respectfully.

43:19Oti: Oh, yeah. Respectfully.

43:24KT: Yeah. There's a reason why his character was Tommy Buns Bundy. Yep. It's like Tripod from Beasts of No Nation. Exactly. Let's move on to Sincere. I feel like it seemed like Sincere was the character you had the most problems with. And the fact that you kept saying Nas, maybe that's part of the problem because you couldn't it was literally it just felt like Nas to you.

43:24Oti: Exactly. It felt like Nas playing himself.

43:24KT: But doesn't 50 Cent just feel like 50 Cent?

43:24Oti: He doesn't. Except when he has glasses.

43:58Oti: But 50 Cent, you know, he gets a lot of slack, but he he tries, man. It's not like you're watching Power and watching Kanan and thinking that that's 50 Cent because he don't.

43:58KT: Kinda.

44:10KT: Aside from the fact that he's not tweeting about Ja Rule, then I would've thought it was 50 Cent.

44:15Oti: But when you're looking at when you're looking at the lines that Sincere delivers, it felt I couldn't distinguish between who Sincere was

44:26Oti: and who Nas was.

44:26KT: Let's digress for a second. When you see musical artists because I actually really enjoy Mary J. Blige's performance in Power Book II. So I feel like Mary J. Blige is a pretty good actor. Who else do you feel like when you see, like, a musical artist, when you see them acting, you can't separate it? Mister singing on the bus Tyrese Gibson, do you just see Tyrese or do you kind of see him as Jody from Baby Boy, whatever he was with Josh Duhamel in Transformers?

44:59KT: Like, you able to separate the musical artist from the acting?

44:59Oti: Yeah. Yeah. And if I don't even need to go far to see Method Man separates himself as well.

44:59KT: Oh, Method Man is a sovereign nation. How dare you?

44:59Oti: Like it's not but with Nas, it just felt I'm watching Nas. Like I'm watching a behind of scenes Nas when he's trying to write his Like, his I don't know. And a lot of his messaging, you know, altruistic as it was.

45:29KT: Resonating as it was.

45:32Oti: He brought this energy of always feeling that he had to be better, he had to do something bigger than who he was as a person. And he reads this book that blows up his mind, that he feels that he's been living life wrong.

45:50KT: I think it was self improvement or something. Yeah. I think that was before they had wankery titles of finding my inner self.

45:59Oti: Probably. And to that degree, he keeps on speaking about what's right, what's wrong, but he's still fucking in the game. He's still benefiting. Yes. Correct. He's still benefiting. You could get to see him and and Tionne living life. You know, they're not really broke though. Right? You know, in a in an okay house.

46:22Oti: You know? They don't need to all this other bullshit.

46:22KT: They were in a more than okay house. Yeah. That was upper middle class.

46:22Oti: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We know that

46:22KT: See, this is your classism coming again, Oti.

46:22Oti: It was an alright house. Okay now. But we know that

46:39Oti: Sincere wants what Bundy has.

46:42KT: What did you feel welcome new friends and lovers. Usually, we do address first time listeners. And if this is your first time listening to the For Your Reference podcast, the Belly film, please let us know. But for those that aren't Ahuah, Oti is Kenyan. How did you feel about Nas's statement, let's go back to the motherland, let's go back to Africa?

47:07Oti: Good for him, man. Good for him. He had a baby called Kenya, so I am not I am not holding any grudges. I know he said he had no more taxes. I forgot about the aspects of just adding a little bit more tax.

47:07KT: Okay. I think in

47:25KT: the future sequel, they would be heading to Akon City.

47:29Oti: Yes. But you could tell that he wants this connection and resonance that he doesn't currently feel where he was. And he feels that the only way he can get that life was to go back to Africa. And he talks about it being even at the end that he had this connection, he felt at peace and at home and we imagined that he's already there. And I'm like, cool, you know, you got your way out, you got your way out and you've moved your family away from all that and go for him.

48:00Oti: But when he was still talking about that shit and he was still slinging and he was still doing the drug things, I'm like, you have to make a choice. Even if it wasn't clear to us exactly and maybe that's a writing thing. Because one minute he's angry or he's not he's not riding with with Bundy the next second he is. You know? It was flip floppy, and I really didn't know where to stand with Sincere because to me, he really wasn't sincere. It felt a juxtaposition.

48:35KT: Is this is this Insincere produced produced and written by Issa Rae?

48:41Oti: Yep. I'm in. No. But could you tell could you tell me that he was sincere with himself?

48:48KT: I think he because they also talked about, you know, earlier in the film, I think his character's name was Black. And Knowledge was the one that dropped Knowledge on Bundy and said he was actually going to go for Sincere. Like he was gonna stick it to him, think was the worst. Right? So he was actually going to kill Sincere that night. And it's like, that's where Knowledge fucked up because the next moment you see Bundy leaping over the table with the money that stayed stuck to the table. Glued on the table. But

49:22KT: you see that moment, and I think they also refer to him as a PhD fucking dickhead or something like So I don't know, like, you know, there's there's always that that person in your group that is smarter and you know they're going to go on to bigger and better things, go and listen to our Alice in Borderland episode with Arisu and Karube because that's very similar as well. Right? But I feel like Sincere was he was elevated to another dimension. Like he wasn't living in the reality

49:58KT: that Bundy was living. Fair enough, you don't wanna be in the streets twenty four seven, but at the same time, this is where your riches come from, sir. Yeah. So it's kinda your obligation when Bundy calls you from jail to help.

49:58Oti: True. True.

49:58KT: Shout outs to Hassan Johnson, our Wee-Bey from The Wire.

50:20Oti: Mark.

50:21KT: Yeah. You also said while we were watching the film that he's more of a real one than Bundy is. Because you see the Wiggles trying to evade arrest.

50:31Oti: Well, he's living up to what Bundy was saying. True. He was like, I'll never be caught. I'd rather die than be caught or go back to prison. And he meant it. He meant it. He was like, oh, wait. Mark my word. Yeah. Even though he got up in his car and just tried to drive off, he never gave up. We see Mark play this character over and over again.

50:51KT: Loyal. Loyal to IC. Let's talk about Knowledge for a second. Yeah. You know, there were many moments, particularly during the most heated sort of moments where Bundy just told Knowledge to pretty much fuck off.

51:06Oti: Yeah. Which is, you know, like, Bundy didn't care. He didn't care about all that shit. Self preservation

51:13Oti: also

51:13KT: Exactly.

51:13Oti: Includes being

51:16Oti: And and to a point where even Knowledge I'm like, how do you threaten Bundy like that out in the open? Like, come bail me out or else I'll fucking snitch. Who says that?

51:27KT: Yeah. It's interesting. And Knowledge also had suspicions that their phones were being tapped, yet he still called Tion and Bundy.

51:27Oti: That's what I'm telling you. Like, the names are just

51:38Oti: in Swahili, we call it Majazi. It's a juxtaposition of who they are as characters. We have Sincere who I think is fucking insincere and Knowledge who's fucking dumb.

51:46KT: Oh my. Did you just drop some East African knowledge on these motherfuckers?

51:46Oti: Booyah, yep.

51:46KT: Wow, bumbai. Yeah, I don't think there's much to say about Knowledge other than that. But also actually just thinking about it while we're talking, Bundy was a much different to Knowledge because the narration of Knowledge was that he was a sloppy motherfucker and he didn't have any regard for anything, but that could also be for Bundy too.

52:15Oti: Agreed.

52:16KT: I would say my favorite character of this film is Tionne.

52:20KT: It

52:21KT: was nice to see T-Boz in a film. I don't know if there was a whole string of films that TLC was in. Yeah, pretty much everything she said, I was like, agree, a 100% subscribe, notifications all the way. There are two resonating quotes that I just wanna mention. Some people accept the bad and are cool with it. And this is when she's talking to Kisha about Bundy. That's very interesting because she

52:51KT: makes no illusions about anything. And I think part of the thing that was frustrating me and also frustrating Tionne is Kisha kept saying, when is Bundy gonna be like Sincere? And you obviously don't know Bundy because that's him. That's who he is. And that's exactly what Tionne was saying. Some people accept the bad and that's cool. They're cool with it. Yeah. Right? And I don't know, I've Ladies, everyone else that identifies, don't stick around with someone hoping they're going to change. Exactly.

53:23KT: And if you do, that resentment belongs to you. Take that baggage. Check-in that baggage because that is yours.

53:30Oti: For sure.

53:32KT: And then also something else that she said to Kisha is, I'm happy with Sincere because I'm happy. Can we get a fucking amen up in here? Amen.

53:44Oti: Thank you.

53:46KT: Since when do you ever do what I ask you, sir? Trying to land the ropes. But yeah, I absolutely loved Tionne. I think she was a solid character. She was probably the best character in No, she is the best character in there. All right, friends and lovers. I want to end with the scene that Oti satiated and also called back to. So this is when Ox calls him out that we're going to go to Jamaica. He made it sound like a holiday, but he also said he was going to reap what he sow.

54:21KT: So you know something was going to happen. Yeah. Right? But everything always happens when Sean Paul is around. Let's be fair friends and lovers. And it kind of becomes, I would say the essential premise of him taking Bundy to Jamaica was to become a hitman. Yep. Right? Mhmm. He was having a problem with someone. But in any case, what I wanna focus on is the car scene while they're going to their destination after landing in Jamaica. Yep. And essentially the sentiments of what Ox is saying

54:57KT: is that Kingston is a ghetto, not a slum. Now let me say what I took from that scene because I was a fucking archeologist up in that ship. I took all of the meaning, I got as deep as the excavation could let me. I saw this as Ox talking about his inner conflict of all of the successes that he has. When he says a man can live and be rich in America, he was talking about himself. But he also said, I feel for these people.

55:31KT: Right? So when he says it's a ghetto, not a slum, from what I infer into that is Ox is saying there is potential for Kingston to become what it should become in its own glory, self sustainable. Also, I'm not too naive to the fact that he is branded as cutting people's throats and being really heartless and ruthless, and that's how he got to his riches. Yeah? Yeah. So I make no illusion to it. Maybe he wasn't as extravagant as Pablo Escobar with his exotic zoos and the hippos that are still there,

56:07KT: by the way. But I also acknowledge, at least in that moment, I like to give credence to vulnerability. Right? It's like saying rich people don't have problems. I feel genuinely that Ox felt a way on the way that his people were living, the way his people were struggling. Because he said he was in a sea where not many survive. So he got out of it and now he's trying to help. And that is the depth, friends and lovers, that you will not hear from my beloved Oti.

56:45Oti: Well, I understood what you said and I still don't agree fully. I think he's fucking culpable of the environment that is in Kingston where he was from. He is culpable for everything that has transpired there because he fucking kills without any fucking reason. He keeps on saying that throughout the whole movie. Yeah. If you care about your people, and that was the only way he was ever gonna get to the top in that in that in that in that city. And he stood on top of fucking dead bodies.

57:21Oti: And now he's coming to me telling me he fucking cares. Mhmm. He could piss right off. We've had enough of that nonsense in Africa But he was where you get people, dictators, talk about how they fucking care whilst killing their own people. So where do you draw the line of, oh, you say this in public, but yet what you do is completely against the community that you want so to uphold? Where

57:47Oti: do you draw the line? Because I'm not buying that. I'm not drinking that Kool Aid because I've seen those characters way too much in my life. And I don't fucking care that he feels that he just made it off and he's in America now as a rich man because he still boasts of who he is as a character being that he doesn't fucking care

58:06Oti: of life. He doesn't take it sacredly at all because he can take it on a whim for fun. Yeah. So don't come to me saying that you fucking care when your actions depict something different. I'm not buying it. I'm not here to even say that you're that character. Like, you might think that, but in reality, that's so factual. So get out of fucking town because I am not buying, I am not drinking, and you can you know what? That scene where he fucking dies. Yeah. I was like, mate.

58:41Oti: Fucking deserve that shit. Even if it's a fucking lift off from Scarface, I don't care.

58:47KT: What? What happened to your tax? What if Ox had a daughter that was named Kenya?

58:52Oti: Maybe I would have been more understanding.

58:56KT: That's my 60 Minutes journalism, friends and lovers. But the moment you bring it into reality and you talk about African dictators, obviously, there's no way for me to go, my love. No. I agree. I'm just saying

59:09Oti: painting his sentimental bullshit without without brush that he cares,

59:14KT: that he actually cares. I didn't say that he cares. I said that it's possible possible that a person like him can have a moment of vulnerability.

59:26Oti: That's what I said. At that point, it's just self indulgent in my opinion. Alright.

59:31KT: I I don't agree.

59:33Oti: And I think this leads us to the best moment of the movie. Oh. Wait. All get stirred into a bow. Oh, I love love Gifted to us. Mhmm. I'm being told that this is where everything we've done so far ended up with, you know? And that's when they introduced the minister, albeit out of fucking nowhere. Yeah. We still got to see a scene with the minister and Bundy and that dialogue, then you get to understand everything. You get to understand the problems, the issues, the nuances.

60:08KT: But my cup drieth over. Like you said earlier, you didn't care at that point. This was way at the end. So any sort of bonuses I could have given to this film was already dried up, my love. But at least he sparked as lubricant on us. There was a famine in my sploosh places.

60:28Oti: Yeah. But, you know, I can forgive a lot, but at that moment we get to see the intention of the movie. We get to see everything laid out. At the end, which again, we talked about writing. And then you think of the moments maybe you'd missed, then you see, ah, so that's what they meant. Oh, so that's what they were going for. Then I'm like sitting here thinking, was the execution done properly if this is what is meant to make the whole thing make sense.

60:28KT: Well, that's the point. Whether it's exposition,

61:03KT: whether it it could be exposition through narration, but whether it's characters, narration, visual cues, it should reinforce everything to the crescendo, which is what we're talking about now.

61:03Oti: Yeah. And then it makes sense to

61:17Oti: see Bundy give himself up. To see Bundy doing this for the feds or whatever in trying to kill the minister because Bill O'Neal. He's lost. He felt like he had nowhere to go, but there was someone there with the answers that he was looking for for the questions he didn't know that he was he'd even asked himself. So he was peeling up layers that Chakras. That Bundy wasn't even aware of. And then we get to see that connection, that resonance in Bundy and him just understanding and getting that hug at the end.

61:53Oti: And I'm sitting here thinking, that's fucking powerful. That's powerful, you know? Elevating your people. Elevating black women. Yes. Stop killing. Stop doing this shit to yourself. Yeah. And that made sense to me because because you're thinking about Ox where he had this sentiment that he was doing something for the community while he's Trampling over. Trampling over them.

62:20Oti: And and this is what it gets all laid out to for him. You know? Bundy was never gonna read a book. He was never gonna pick that book that Sincere was reading because he said, I'm not all about that. And this was the only way for him to connect and for him to and that's the only moment we get to see actually Bundy having some sort of emotion in this. Yeah. And I'm like, where was this the whole movie? Yeah. Where was this the whole movie?

62:46Oti: It made me angry because if you if they had the chops to write that, they had the chops to do it throughout the whole movie. Yeah.

62:54KT: Oh, man. But we still love Ava DuVernay.

62:57Oti: I don't know what to do with her. Yeah. Because at the end of it, was so conflicted. Yeah. I was so conflicted. Anyway.

63:08KT: Anyway, let's finish off with final thoughts. We need a John Wick spin off with Method Man. Let's

63:17Oti: talk about it. Who else can take a shotgun into the chest and still walk out of there and terrorize other people? And he also got Quaaluded.

63:27KT: Me.

63:28Oti: Yeah. Me. He he it's like he's Killua from Hunter x Hunter. He did not feel any effects of poison. What's that? What's fucking Quaaludes, mate?

63:28KT: Excuse me. Excuse me, urban host. Did you make an anime reference?

63:28Oti: Of course I did.

63:49KT: No, but I do wanna see so I'm adding to my list of John Wick universe spin offs and obviously Halle Berry, Colin Firth, go and listen to our Pride and Prejudice episode for more context and Method Man. I just love seeing Method Man. Can I just say?

63:49Oti: Yeah, you've said that a lot.

63:49KT: Well, I'm just I guess the biggest disappointment I had in the Wu-Tang saga was that he didn't play himself. I would watch him play himself. Just

64:23KT: put a gray hair on him to distinguish when he's older.

64:23Oti: Chiwetel. We love Chiwetel Ejiofor. Yeah. I think that was behind Blue Eyes or behind the eyes.

64:34KT: Behind Blue Eyes is a Creed song, is it not?

64:37Oti: Not Creed. Mate, that's Limp

64:41KT: I would be embarrassed if I admitted that I listened to Limp Bizkit.

64:48Oti: Fair enough.

64:49KT: I think it was behind her eyes.

64:51Oti: Yeah. Something like that. It was it was an enjoyable movie. Was enjoyable.

64:56KT: With Nicole Kidman as well. Yeah. We're film podcasters if you haven't realized friends and lovers. Is there anything else you wanna add to this film, my team? Well, actually, would you we don't usually do this, but would you recommend people watch this movie?

64:56Oti: I would recommend people to watch this out just for the messaging.

65:16Oti: I think it's important, especially for when you go and see hip hop artists as the stars, and you think this movie is just gonna be low barrel shit, it's not. And for that reason, you should watch it. You should. And take away anything that you want to take away from it. But at the end of the day, they had a message and something that we don't speak of often enough. And especially coming from them, geez, man, like everyone should watch this. Just to have it as in your portfolio that, you know what?

65:51Oti: I watched Belly.

65:53KT: Okay, Kelly and my unborn baby. That's a South Park reference. Interesting you said that. It's like you completely erased what you said this whole episode.

66:04Oti: Take the criticisms, know, of course we'd have it. It's part of our watching experience. It's part of us discussing the movie. But at the end of the day, as a fun, as a fun of watching movies and generally just enjoying shit, you take something away from this movie that you didn't think that you would. It surprised us. And this is not the first surprise we've had over the, you know, of all sort of

66:37Oti: movie watching experiences where we gave shit that we didn't know what it was about, but then ended up at the end being super excited about. So definitely, yeah, watch it, man.

66:37KT: Alright. That is a full on rubber Oti stamp approval.

66:51KT: Mhmm. Let's finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference,

66:55KT: Oti.

66:55Oti: You know what I'm gonna reference? It's gonna sound a bit soft off field, left field, but I'm gonna reference The Chi. The first two seasons sort of touch on the topics that this movie tries to. And by God damn, it was a good two seasons.

66:55KT: Well, you better strap on, Oti. There's

67:15KT: a lot of loving in that show. We also have an episode on The Chi, you are learning very quickly Oti. I've got two references. All right. I will reference The Wire. We have almost four hours of podcast content in regards to The Wire. That's how much we love The Wire. And my second reference Oti is the German series 4 Blocks. I'm going to keep referencing 4 Blocks. It won Splooshies awards. It won all of KT's Splooshies.

67:54KT: And I'm going to keep doing it until someone email or tweets us and says, thank you so much for introducing this show to me. Please don't watch the English dub on HBO Max. Thank you. If you wanna see us in a non subtitle capacity on Twitter and Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. Also remember that Oti recommended this film. So if you have any complaints, please forward it to our emails. Mhmm. We're also on rock hard Rottweiler dicks.

68:27KT: So leave a rating or review.

68:29Oti: See you.

68:31KT: Amen.