Wonka – Commentary and Confectionery

Full transcript of Wonka – Commentary and Confectionery.

0:00KT: Hey friends and lovers and welcome to a delectable another year, another week in the For Your Reference household. We are coming up to five years, Oti. We are. we are very excited. We've announced on the Patreon who our director will be. and we've got the Splooshies coming up. We've got such a great time.

0:21KT: we've also got a backlog of things that we'll be getting through. But today, today, today, we will be sucking all the gobstoppers. We're going to ride it till it falls off, Oti. Let's get on with the show.

0:40KT: Hey friends and delicious lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference Podcast. You got your hosts, KT and Oti.

0:49KT: Beware the cavity of social commentary, staining the joy of childhood.

1:13KT: Sugar coat, sour themes with Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory and Wonka this week. Uh, the Johnny Depp ones redacted just in general. And just because we are where we are friends and lovers, but we do love Tim Burton, and Freddie Highmore.

1:14KT: Um, you know, as, as much as people think I'm the one behind the scenes, you wanted to make sure we had a full review episode for the Wonka films and also Anatomy of a Fall coming up. Yeah. So very exciting times. You know, we ran out of time.

1:52KT: We're not doing the Tim Burton one today, friends and lovers, but we will be covering, and it feels like they are more connected together, kind of like a Frankenstein Halloween, different timeline monster, but we're going to be covering, the 1971 as well as the 2023 Wonkaverse films.

1:57KT: Also, I am a little bit spicy, but I guess Oti can choose. I had the title as chocolate gate. Oh, but I also have it as capitalism, classism, and confectionery. But we, before we get into, the quotes, I guess, just like general, I'm not going to go into super detail, so you're more than welcome to read it, but the 1971 Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory was directed by Mel Stuart and Roald Dahl actually.

2:27KT: Adapted help to adapt it to screen, which I think is quite interesting as well. When you think about, you know, when we start talking about the themes and the deliciousness and the sourness and all of that, Gene Wilder, obviously, obviously, obviously we might have to do which won't go wonk at the most.

2:45KT: Jack Albertson is the grandpa as well as Peter Ostrum playing Charlie Bucket in regards to the 2023. Wonka, which yes, I said, I cried in yes, everyone was like, I'm capable of being a bitch and having tears, friends and lovers director, Paul King, the Paddington of it all, which we've never really ventured down.

3:07KT: So maybe that helped. I guess we'll see as time goes along, credited for writing. We have Simon Farnaby as well as Paul King, Timothée Chalamet playing Willy Wonka. and we have a whole host of cast, Keegan-Michael Key. I know there's so many other people, but I'll just mention him here. Oh, wow.

3:25KT: Olivia Colman. you know, there's, there's so many people in this film, and Calah Lane, obviously because Noodle, Noodle, Noodle and spoiler alert. That's why I was having a little, emotional, delicious confectionery tear to myself.

3:41KT: So let's get into, our general impressions slash pull quotes. And again, I do have some tasty themes.

3:46KT: That we're going to get into and we might as well just intersperse, both of the films as well, but kick us off with the 1971 thoughts, Oti.

3:55Oti: Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory remains a timeless treasure. Its humor still sparkles, proving its enduring appeal. A heartwarming, whimsical journey that continues to delight audiences of all ages.

4:07KT: I might have delight in mine as well. Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory is a classic delight for all the senses. Gene Wilder has the commendable ability to balance levity and no nonsense charm to confectionery and commentary.

4:25Oti: Oh, a hundred percent agree with that.

4:28KT: And yeah, you want to go into the 2023 quote?

4:30KT: Yeah.

4:32Oti: Wonka, the prequel, surprised me pleasantly. While it can't match the Gene Wilder classic, it stands on its own with solid storytelling and acting.

4:42KT: Okay! Very nice. I like that. Wonka sits comfortably as a double feature to its 1971 predecessor. While it's lighter on themes of capitalism and other social commentary, it remains centred in emotional resonance with the world and characters.

5:00Oti: Oh, okay. Okay. I see what you're putting down.

5:04KT: you know, friends and lovers, thank you for joining us on our end of year ratings, our Christmas special. but in that we did, we reviewed in full combined review capacities over 120 TV shows and films. Yeah.

5:28KT: So what made you decide that we needed to absolutely cover this in a more, I guess extended pack version?

5:31Oti: I think rewatching Gene Wilder's version. How good? I think I forgot. I forgot how good it was. Uh huh. I had fun with it. It felt like I'd not watched a movie like that in ages. Yeah. And it's hilarity and whimsy, and it's something that I didn't even realize I missed. And when we watched that and then we went to watch Wonka, I was like, okay, it wouldn't be fair to compare the two straight up, but Chalamet did a job.

6:05KT: Okay. So does that mean, some films are untouchable? I wouldn't say untouchable. Cause you said they shouldn't be compared.

6:14Oti: I think. It would be unfair to compare the two directly because A, it's not like a remake. It's a prequel. So, you know, trying to expand the world a bit.

6:23KT: Just like Fast and the Furious is going back to its roots.

6:28Oti: Oh yeah. Storytelling, layered storytelling.

6:30KT: I absolutely agree. I'm just glad we're able to talk about it today. It's very, very exciting. I'm not necessarily learned in it, so I would. direct you, even though I'm scared of TikTok, there is FilmTok and a lot of great black creators that talk about, the parallels between slavery and Oompa Loompas and in the OG, you know how you talk about, what's your Green Eggs and Ham fella, Dr.

6:57KT: Seuss, you know, he's got his little problematic shit going on. Roald Dahl had that as well. And it actually, the lines actually denoted to African slaves. so I'm not necessarily an expert on it. What I would say, whether you want to say it's credit or whether you want to say it's that Roy Wood Jr residue, they didn't shy away from it in the 1971.

7:22KT: Like, it was very clear that they were talking about using other labor to the benefit of the chocolate factory. so I do just want to put that as a note at the start of this review. but I'm also not an expert and you also shouldn't get factual information from an entertainment, questionable entertainment.

7:43KT: Questionable podcast, so let's get into the themes. The first thing that I have is social commentary, and I kind of want to evaluate the OG 1971, whether you want to call it 1971, 2023, whether you want to call it Gene Wilder, Timothée Chalamet, OG. New age, whatever you want to call it. I kind of want to evaluate how they both worked and maybe potentially if one was more cohesive, whether it resonated more, with you in particular.

8:13KT: So let's talk about social commentary.

8:15KT: There was a lot of lines about capitalism in particular in the 1971 version.

8:22Oti: Yes. So in my take, in the Gene Wilder version, we get social commentary. About capitalism, labor, and how you obtain it and all that, I felt that it covered most ground, I think, better than the Chalamet one.

8:42Oti: Yeah. Just because in the, in the Wonka version, we get this sort of commentary, or at least they try and tiptoe around it. Yeah. On how he gets to obtain this labor and how it came to be. Yeah. Hugh Grant does an amazing job in this.

9:01KT: He does, but they were pussyfooting around it.

9:03Oti: Exactly. They were pussyfooting.

9:04Oti: Whereas Gene Wilder's body, we got it straight out.

9:07KT: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I think what's also interesting about the OG, 1971 film is it did it in a way that was so natural and it did it in a way that was so unapologetic, like say, for example. even denoting to the fact that Charlie Bucket only had that M& M one shot.

9:29KT: You know what I mean? Like there weren't many opportunities for him to get it. And even that one opportunity was very, very, unlikely or improbable that he would be the one to win, compared to, you know, the more wealthier sort of, contestants that had hundreds. Of, you know, the ability to get hundreds of bars and, you know, it heightens the probability of it.

9:55KT: Yeah. Right. Making, taking advantage of having a whole factory and getting all the factory workers to be able to open and unravel and look for that golden ticket. And even the fake ticket that they had was also very interesting as well.

10:11Oti: Of course there is.

10:13KT: I really liked it. And I think it was even peppered in with like his grandparents as well.

10:19KT: Like it wasn't just, we want to talk about capitalism. So we're just going to put a line here and there. It was throughout every sort of interaction with all of the characters, even with the notion of having a golden ticket, you know what I mean? Like everyone's there to participate, but they're not there to win.

10:38KT: Oh, yeah. It's chocolate Squid Game.

10:41Oti: It is. And it's, and this is where you get sort of the overlaying theme, you know, where we get Charlie Bucket. Poor guy, man. Like the amount of, he is heavy on the shine.

10:54KT: Yes. And this is the white soul food. These adults were dumping on that poor boy.

11:02Oti: He had been through a lot.

11:03KT: Been through shit, seen shit.

11:05Oti: Seen shit with dead ass grandparents who would do nothing. They were laying in that bed for eons. Yeah. Not even bothering to get out of bed. The poor mother.

11:19KT: Can we talk about it? Cause I just, it was very interesting. It was, I think just an acute, silly, sort of evaluation.

11:28KT: But I have a line here, uh, that the Grandpa Joe said, you have more chance cause you want it more.

11:36Oti: Doesn't work like that.

11:37KT: Yeah, but those that haven't grown up with much have heard that some sort of variation of that. We hear it every day.

11:43Oti: We do. Want it more?

11:45KT: Yes, of course, absolutely. but I really enjoyed the social commentary in this film. Obviously, there are levels of classism as well. oh, and also, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler.

12:00KT: Dentist, dentist, dentist, go and check your dentist. Cause you're going to get spoiled friends and lovers. but like, because it was an allegory, for virtue, right. Because Willy Wonka was looking for a predecessor. He was looking for the most pure hearted. And that eliminated a lot of the privileged, wealthy, like I said, in Saltburn, stuffy, upper class, never going to touch the grass people.

12:30KT: Yep. daddy, I thought also it was very interesting to see. The way that films that are targeted towards younger people in 1970s compared to now, because they, they said things out in the open, which I guess if you're a kid, you don't really understand it, but making them sign a contract at the start.

12:50Oti: Yeah. Terms and conditions. It can't read.

12:54KT: Well, no, I think they were literate. It was the 1970s, not the 1700s.

12:59Oti: No, no, they can't read because they're illiterate. Just because of the sheer amount of text that was there and in small print, like super, super fine print.

13:10KT: Yeah, no, absolutely. I absolutely agree. But it was interesting to have those sorts of themes.

13:15KT: It was very refreshing. It was a nice sort of middle between like what we expect now and like a lot more kinder than your, It's a Wonderful Life. Oh yeah. but let's go into the next theme.

13:29KT: Wonka or Wanka, who takes the Crown? So who's the Wonka? Who's the wanker?

13:33Oti: Gene Wilder will be the Wonka and the Wanka would be Chalamet.

13:38KT: Okay. Is it even close? Is there a world where the Wonka and the Wanka collide?

13:46Oti: I think halfway through Gene Wilder's version probably. Where he feels, it feels like he's sort of turned the page of, Oh, I'm not going to pretend. Oh, I'm going to drop my veneer of, Ooh, we're going to just be having fun in the factory.

14:02Oti: Yeah. Uh, maybe then, but still the kid just acting mad and the parents as well. So I didn't really blame him for being like that. But with, but with Chalamet, I think he, we introduced to him. With him having this ambition, having this drive of all those wanting something or wanting to build something better and showcase his talent in making candy, but we get, he's stepping up to the OGs.

14:35Oti: He's acting as if he's already made it. He's done nothing yet. You know, you can have the best candy in the world, but I don't know. I just felt like, step up, bro.

14:44KT: So you mean you needed to, he needed to prove his muster a bit? Yeah. He was peacocking a little bit? Peacocking to the fullest. Interesting.

14:54KT: Interesting. So he needed to struggle a bit more. Is that what you're saying? Because what if he was just naturally talented? Of course. Because it seems like

15:06Oti: Yeah, he's naturally talented, but when he's introduced and his first showcase to the place is flying, candy that makes people bloody fly, how do you beat that?

15:19Oti: And to the point of that It seems like those people that never experienced or seen anything like that, but still swept it under the rug as if it was nothing. Yeah. I'm like, if I'm flying after eating candy, bruv, that's the only place I'm going.

15:31KT: Yeah. There was chocoganda going on. Yeah, no, I agree with you.

15:39KT: I thought you were going to have more of a quandary about who is the real Wonka and who was the. I think maybe what works against Chalamet's portrayal is that it's based off another one. I think if this was like a non Wonka standalone sort of performance, it really would have shone in the way that we see Gene Wilder's one.

16:12Oti: Oh, a hundred percent. I don't doubt that. I think. We get a sense of Wonka, I think, sort of better in Chalamet's version, just because it's a story about him rather than, you know, Charlie Bucket and all that and his interactions with people and how he connects or how he builds those relationships and all, he holds valuable, you know, so It does paint that bigger picture, which is enjoyable, uh, shout out to Noodle.

16:45KT: Okay. I need to get your thoughts on this because as you can imagine, friends and lovers, our timeline is all about film, whether it's FilmTok, film recaps, thoughts, even from like journalists and critics from like early screening, social reactions, and that sort of thing, or even just casual viewers.

17:04KT: that share their thoughts.

17:07KT: There was some, black critics slash creators slash influencers that didn't felt as though Noodle could have been given a little bit more dimension. Like potentially that her name Noodle was a lazy, not even giving her dimension, name. Really? I just want to get your thoughts on that.

17:30Oti: What frustrated me with Noodle is sort of, she felt already made, like she felt those very, those zero character development in my view,

17:41KT: were already, like she's not most improved because she's already quite solid. Yeah.

17:45Oti: Like we're introduced to a fully formed character and. Nothing moved the noodle.

17:53KT: Okay. Well, this is interesting. Cause wouldn't you say that she balanced out Chalamet's Wonka? Cause Wonka was very lofty, and Noodle kind of grounded him and. Wonka kind of instilled that whimsy that you can still have joy to her groundedness. So I would say it was like a symbiotic thing, maybe in isolation.

18:18Oti: And this is the thing, I think three quarters of the movie. We, Noodle doesn't grow per se. Yes, you can say towards the end where she's sort of introduced to the aspect of all your family's still sort of alive. Then that's when you get a softer sort of Noodle where we get to see a little bit of growth, but that's not even by much.

18:45Oti: We're not left with enough time to let her feel all these emotions and whatnot. It's all. Oh, my, my mother is still alive and we don't get to experience that within Noodle herself. And then by the time it gets to the end, we're still, it's just, Oh, I'm just going to run up to my mom. It felt, I wanted to, to feel more emotional there.

19:11KT: I did. I cried.

19:13Oti: I didn't because I felt there was a disconnect. There was a disconnect between the journey of her experiencing or going through all this that I felt it hadn't fully bought that emotion for me.

19:25KT: Am I the Wanker? Because could we say the journey was interwoven with Wonka? So you can't really discuss Noodle's journey without him because they, like by them connecting was their way of being able to see the world differently.

19:45Oti: Maybe so. Wonka thinks that by doing this, he might get a sense of, or a re imagining of the mother or whatever. And with Noodle. She's introduced, she knows that she, she's an orphan and all that, and then we introduce her mother at the end, and I get that sort of interwoven ness between the

20:07KT: Bro, you fully broke them apart.

20:09KT: I was just saying personality, but I guess trauma equal personality, right? I just expected. You're just like, they got, they got absent mothers. Just like, okay.

20:22Oti: No, I'm talking about the juxtaposition at the end of it being Wonka feeling as if he's gonna get, uh, re imagining or some weird sort of semblance of the mother still being there.

20:35Oti: And Noodle feeling as if I am not going to get anything. And the end of it, Wonka realizes in himself that it wasn't about getting the mother back. It was more about the joy of, Oh, Candy and the friends he made along the way. While Noodle, while it's still about the friends that make along the way, it's still, Oh, I'm going to get that introduction to my family as well.

21:01Oti: So I'm not just saying it's about, Ooh, trauma and trauma bonding. It still feels. As if her journey wasn't fully thought out or mapped out and the focus in as much as was on writing a story. You leave Noodle alone.

21:17Oti: Fair enough. I'm not even going to finish that because fair enough.

21:22KT: That's why Noodles shouldn't be casted because of bullies like you.

21:28KT: I just want to go back to where all of the white people, different countries in Europe plus America, but they all happen to be white. Go back to your 1971 version then.

21:40Oti: I just wanted more emotion and I felt I didn't get it.

21:47KT: Okay.

21:51KT: Well, I guess to close off this particular theme, I will grant you that Gene Wilder is the Wonka.

21:56KT: I think Timothée Chalamet did well. like I said, it leverages off. An existing IP. So, and because of that, because of that existing IP being so solid, it's hard to compete or even be seen as on the same level. but what I will say is to me personally, it didn't even matter if Timothée Chalamet was great in this because the heart and the center for me was Noodle.

22:24KT: I get what you're saying about her being a fully formed character, but I would say she's become, and maybe this is me projecting, she became hardened by the world and she needed that softening. Yeah, I agree with you. You also play a role in my softening, and I play a role in your hardening. You are. Now? Um.

22:53KT: Actually, before we go into other things, we haven't really got a chance to talk about the new Wonka specifically. I just want to talk about my qualms about how cartoonish it was at times. That's why as much as I loved it and friends and lovers, this is a separate conversation about how you can really enjoy a film, but it's not.

23:15KT: It's like, it doesn't make it a perfect film and you can have a perfect film and have things that you don't necessarily like about it, or as Oti equates re watchability, you can really like a film, but never want to watch it again. Yeah. But what I'm saying in regards to this is even though I felt very, very emotional because I feel like those really worked for me, especially in regards to Noodle.

23:35KT: It didn't take away about how cartoonish it was that, uh, Matt Lucas, the Little Britain fella, and Keegan-Michael Key in particular were the biggest culprits of this and they were the most frustrating in this film. I was waiting for that. No, it was annoying. It was annoying. It's like, even for kids, I'm sure they're getting annoyed at these grown people.

24:00KT: actually sound off, sound off, sound off. What are your thoughts on the fat suit? Because. some people really have a problem with this fat suit. I have a very strong opinion about it. I might even surprise you friends and lovers. yes, how he progressively gets fat, fatter and fatter and fatter.

24:22KT: That's literally the whole joke.

24:27Oti: I don't have a strong opinion of it, or I don't think that I. Looked at it in any sort of way, other than it being a depiction of his greed and his never ending want to have more and more. Yeah.

24:41KT: Thanks Joe.

24:44Oti: And pretty much it. That's all I took from it. What else is there?

24:48KT: Just like it's, it's cheap humor, which I agree.

24:51KT: but just like in this day and age, you shouldn't be wearing a fat suit for a joke. Which I do agree, but what's more egregious to me, the fact that that's more egregious to me is Brendan Fraser and The Whale. Yeah. Stop coming in, talking to me about how emotional The Whale is.

25:08KT: And then Brendan Fraser goes and cries around about how he did so well. Well, you're not fat. Are you fuck off?

25:14Oti: Was there an attempt to make it comedic? The Whale? No, no, no, no. Oh, Keegan, that he was getting fatter.

25:23KT: I think it was just there. Like, I think it was there for you to laugh. If you wanted to laugh, I didn't find it funny personally, but

25:31Oti: I didn't find it funny either.

25:31Oti: I just thought it was a depiction of his greed and nothing else.

25:36KT: Oh, so just man's got fat.

25:36Oti: I don't feel like they're trying to do nobby to anything like that.

25:38KT: Okay. Okay. I get what you're saying. I just, I personally, it's more egregious to me that actors that aren't fat put on a fat suit for accolades.

25:53KT: And this kind of comes into Friends and Lovers, we're early for the AAPI month. Charles Melton, I'm sure he's great, but as solidarity, as a, Asian American, he shouldn't have taken the role of Vili where he wasn't even consulted for May December, which is based on his life excerpts and quotes. life, about him being abused, that being used as a way for accolades.

26:18KT: So whether it's fat suits or whether it's like the, lack of advising and consulting about someone's abuse, especially when it comes to grooming in their life, those are disgusting things to me. That's where. The veneer of actors just wanting the accolades fractures for me. It's like, Oh, you actually don't earnestly want to connect with people.

26:43KT: You just want all of the Lydia Tyre awards. Yeah. Uh, I'm with you on that. So I'm saying back off. Keegan-Michael Key, my best friend.

26:56Oti: No, I'm with you. I'm with you.

26:57KT: well, let's continue. I don't think any, I think we both agree that the, the real Wonka is, Gene Wilder.

27:04KT: Anyway, it's been a while since we've had a theme specifically about whimsy. I think of our first Reference Degustation with Miyazaki. Which is interesting because we watched The Boy and the Heron and I thought I was going to feel more there, but I felt more here.

27:20KT: but anyway, I want to talk about Whimsy, Wonka, Wonder. Where do you think, well, do you think it was present in both films and where do you think it worked more?

27:31Oti: Oh, definitely the Wonder was captured more in the Gene Wilder version. Just because. Again, it's, it's the first instance, it's the introduction to the world.

27:45Oti: So the whimsy will always be strong with it. with, with the Chalamet version, it's more the introduction of what was already set in the obtaining of whimsy. So everything. It didn't really capture the whimsy for me rather than the current one where I felt it just captured more the grit and the humanity of, of Wonka than anything else whimsy around it, or even anything else whimsy around the world.

28:11Oti: I get the little cute, the candies and the Johnny of, Oh, we can get flight. There's the building of that, all that, but it just didn't feel as whimsy for me.

28:21KT: There's a malaise. I think I agree with you, 1971, and it seems to be winning all of these themes, as we go along. But I think for me, the reason why the 1971 achieves the whimsy Wonka wonder is because it plays with levels a lot more than the OG, than the 2023 one.

28:45KT: And what I mean by that is. On balance, the 1971 OG film is more heavier than the current one, but it also does more in regards to the levity. So it, it plays with the levels. You've got like highs and lows in the film, and you've also got like dark humor as well, but in regards to the playing with the levels and the tone, I think it did it a lot more effectively.

29:16KT: You see more of a storytelling sort of curve going on. in the 2023 version, it is the lighter one. It is. Um, kind of like coating honey on your tongue sort of thing. It didn't move far from the center. Does that make sense? So they'll have some obstacles. They'll have some joy, but it was already from a very, optimistic place.

29:40KT: If that makes sense. Yeah. so I guess there's going to be woe with your whimsy, essentially friends and lovers, or I guess that makes it more effective as well. I didn't necessarily give you an opportunity.

29:53KT: Did you want to, did you want to comment on the themes to slaves and Oompa Loompas?

30:00Oti: I think I covered it in my initial thought of it being covered in more sort of succinct way in the original version, where there is a mention and there is a sort of connotation of what happens

30:14KT: and what I made notes, desolate land and nothing but thick jungles.

30:20KT: Desolate wastes and the most horrid beasts in the world.

30:25Oti: Yeah, there's that.

30:28KT: There's that. okay. Yeah, I, I wasn't expecting a full dissertation. It was just, I wasn't sure if I gave you an opportunity, to talk about it, but the themes were definitely there. yeah, it was just interesting, but I want to kind of just talk about them in the film now.

30:46KT: You can keep the layers of slavery, if you like, before we even get there, friends and lovers. I came across a really great thread on Twitter that talked about all your authors that talk about revolution and, you know, the upper class, the upper class, you know, being torn down by the lower class and the middle class and, you know, all those sorts of things.

31:09KT: Themes that you would have revolutionary. Right. Also timely to The Hunger Games as well. And it talks about how the authors are anything, but, and the reason why I mentioned that is go and Google the original title for 10 little sailors by Agatha Christie. Exactly. So let's, let's continue. What did you think about the Oompa Loompas, do you have a favorite?

31:32KT: It's essentially the OG plus Hugh Grant.

31:36Oti: No, I don't have a favorite. Do you?

31:38KT: They're both very different. Yeah. Hugh Grant surprised me. I wasn't expecting to enjoy his performance. I think I went in with my ass clenched because I was like, how are they going to tackle, like, The very real parallels for Oompa Loompas, but yeah, I think he did very well because he did it in a way that wasn't copy paste, like Wonka, for example.

32:10KT: Yeah,

32:11Oti: and that's what I wasn't expecting to have. Some semblance of story or backstory to the Oompa Loompas.

32:18KT: And he kept stealing the chocolates back.

32:22Oti: Yeah, that was, that was a drag.

32:22KT: That's rude. They had like four cacao pods and you took all of them.

32:25Oti: And also, I'm just want to pull you up. Don't, don't lie and say, Oh, I didn't see you, how Hugh Grant would do it because you didn't think, Oh, the details of Oompa Loompas.

32:37Oti: Nah. You just are still bitter because of Bridget Jones's Diary, just say it the way it is, we know, even though he was a hundred percent right, yeah,

32:49KT: let's continue. Well, I only just forgave Matthew Macfadyen, for attempting to play Darcy. but it's always about Colin Firth, Friends and Lovers in the For Your Reference household.

32:59KT: and thank you. That was a very Wonka Wanka. Call out, I think it's winning everything. I think it's like, I think because in the OG film, it doesn't all hinge on Willy Wonka, right? There's such a building. Of the world's, I've got most delectable delight, which, which film would you prefer to be in, in way of indulgence and eating the candies?

33:28Oti: The candies definitely looked more delicious in Chalamet's version.

33:37KT: Okay. Okay. All right.

33:39Oti: the innovative sort of aspects of, you know, and even the process of him making or finding the ingredients to make the candy. That's what gets me satiated.

33:51KT: Oh, I'm a bit jealous now,

33:53Oti: but it makes it, it makes it look more appealing.

33:57Oti: The process of he goes through to find what tastes better, you know, rather than just getting a bar of chocolate at the end of it and being told, Hey, here it is.

34:07KT: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I get that.

34:12KT: I absolutely agree. I think it looked really, really delicious. that's pretty much all the themes. Like there's some other things we can talk about, if you're interested, but I kind of want to get a bit, uh, controversial potentially.

34:23KT: All right. So your normal mode. Yeah. So I, I buried it deep into the cacao pod of this episode, friends and lovers.

34:34KT: Did you potentially see the parallels between chocolate being used as a currency and the Catholic or the church? Ha! For these sweet little nothings that get hidden behind the floorboards? Ha.

34:54KT: No, no,

34:56Oti: no, no, no, no. You've told me this conspiracy theory of yours, and I label it such because it's so left field. I do not see it as I'm not

35:07KT: calling it chocolate gate. You pretty much are.

35:11Oti: Well go on then. You're stating it's, uh, it's, it's currency used to denote the problems that have plagued

35:25KT: Catholicism.

35:26KT: Come on Catholic boy, bring it home.

35:28Oti: has plagued Catholicism when it comes to younger people. and I just did not see it that way at all.

35:37KT: I am telling you friends and lovers, cause some of you are nasty and you would have listened to this without ever having, or no intention to go and watch Wonka. for those that have watched it and you plan on watching it again, have a refined eye and for those that have.

35:54KT: Listen to this and haven't watched it. When you do watch it, have a refined eye. There are certain lines of dialogue that denote to the sweeties. I'm still auditioning for the Mark Ruffalo role in, uh, in, in Spotlight.

36:12Oti: You'd get it. And then you'd be fired because of the outlandish claims.

36:19KT: I, I, I stand by it. I stand in it, Oti.

36:22Oti: I just did not see that. I did not see that at all. I just took it as them hiding candy in the basement.

36:31KT: And that's like Herbert the pervert from Family Guy.

36:36Oti: Not even that type of candy.

36:40KT: Okay, well, that's, I just, I just wanted to get your thoughts on that. That's okay. there are some lines that I really enjoyed in the OG version that I just want to have, on the episode.

36:50KT: For a student to teach a teacher is presumptuous and rude. you know, when you have that sort of archetype. Of a teacher and I'm thinking about the teacher in Ted most recently, the TV show, but it's funny because you can see a crumbling middle aged man struggling to like find his feet after a divorce.

37:12KT: For example, this teacher was like the definition of that high blood pressure, taking out all his pain on these children. Yeah,

37:23Oti: I would not be able to be a teacher at all. but yes, Oh, I don't even think you're allowed, at least in my culture to, to speak out. Even if the elder is wrong, you take it and you die with it because they'll always be right.

37:41KT: Damn, Noodle.

37:48KT: I'm surprised he couldn't relate to a character more than,

37:51KT: but yeah, I just. It was such a great time to like, be able to watch the films and, you know, we'll get a chance to watch the OG Color Purple and the screening coming up as well. So it's nice to have, even on a smaller sort of scale, event watching, but do you have any sort of closing thoughts on the 1971, the recent one and just both generally?

38:17Oti: No, it was like a pleasant journey, just. Re watching the original version and then getting, expanding the world into the magical Willy Wonka land. I, I just enjoyed myself thoroughly. I think even though I had some qualms with the most latest version. It still was enough to sort of satiate the feeling of wanting more from this.

38:45Oti: And hopefully we get other sort of prequels to this, because I think.

38:52KT: Do you genuinely mean that though?

38:53Oti: I do, I do. I think there's still more story to be told. We've only covered so much and I think getting to see how the whole company sort of starting to be built and all that would be interesting. And some of the competition he faces.

39:08KT: You mean with the addition of labor?

39:10Oti: Yeah, and how he captures those, how he captures the Oompa Loompas.

39:14KT: Free the sweeties under the floorboards, friends and lovers. You just really left me out to dry for that thing.

39:24Oti: I just did not see that. I cannot even, that is something else.

39:31KT: That's your Catholic talking right now.

39:35Oti: Yep. Sweep it all under the rug.

39:39KT: Pretty much thank you so much, friends and lovers for joining us another week in the For Your Reference household. It's been a while.

39:47KT: We're gonna finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference, Oti.

39:52Oti: Ooh, wow. Our reference, It's a Wonderful Life. Woo. It gives you the whimsy while still holding you down or too off with a, with a, with the suffering of a young boy.

40:08KT: It wouldn't be an Oti recommend if it didn't, have that, but I must say when, Charlie Bucket was in the confectionery store in the 1971 version, I was waiting for the shop owner to start like slapping kids in the mouth, because it reminded me of It's a Wonderful Life. Well, I guess if we're keeping a festive cheer, I will reference the Ninja Turtle movie.

40:36KT: Oh,

40:37Oti: the most recent one.

40:39KT: The most, yes, the most, recent one. The molly whopping us. Cause it's molly whopping me. if you'd like to, help in the freedom. Of the sweeties under the floorboard on Twitter, Instagram, Spill, and Bluesky. We're @ForYourRefPod.

40:58Oti: Write us an email, hello@fyrpodcast.com.

41:02KT: We're also on the Delectable Sweets, Confectionery and Commentary Podcast.

41:06KT: If you'd like to leave a rating and review and we'll see you guys next week. See ya.