Wicked, Red One, The Moogai & The Franchise

Full transcript of Wicked, Red One, The Moogai & The Franchise.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household and it's another squabble up, Oti. You look good, but you ain't got no taste. But I'm your taste, so you got taste. Friends and lovers, pray to all the Paul Bettany altars that you get an episode whenever Kendrick Lamar drops, because best believe it's been on loop in the For Your Reference household.

0:28Oti: For sure.

0:29KT: Who are you suing? Oti?

0:31Oti: You.

0:34KT: But I'm printing You, Mike, Jack.

0:36Oti: Oh wow.

0:38KT: Let's get on with the show, friends. Hey, hey, hey, welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got KT, Kung Fu Kenny,

0:58Oti: and Oti.

1:00KT: Welcome, welcome friends and lovers that are new to the For Your Reference household or have been forever nasty, deep in the Black Panther. Rest in peace to Chadwick Boseman in 2019 or the For Your Reference podcast. We are doing a big, if you haven't checked out our Wicked interview, please do so We had Oti representation, the Moana 2 red carpet interviews coming out this week, Oti. We have some very exciting, potentially weeby things.

1:30Oti: Oh hoo hoo, yeah.

1:32KT: on the menu, whatever subtitle, if you're nasty.

1:35Oti: hmm.

1:36KT: Dan Da Dan, and all of that.

1:39KT: We're weebs, friends and lovers. We don't hide it. We keep it out in the open, but friends and lovers, thank you so much. Please continue to sign the petition to do the Queen Latifah LL Cool J film for Christmas, please address that to Oti directly. Uh, but we have a lot to cover today As life has happened. Thank you to all of the PRs and independent filmmakers as well that reach out to us. There's actually been a lot of stuff that for schedules for life you know for all of our dog babies Sometimes we just didn't get to films that we were supposed to, Or we were planning to rather at the time So I'm planning on doing like a quick hit list like during our Christmas special So we do have a Sánchez Muy Caliente

2:33KT: Selection for you today friends and lovers So let's get into it. This is The Franchise, thank you to the team at Binge. Also, shout outs to Max. We are not going to do Penguin in Ref Max because that's going to be a whole full review.

2:50Oti: 100 percent

2:52KT: Yeah, we're not even going to spoil it but, I will say Colin Farrell with his beautiful, lovely Irish accent with the collar, with the Oz makeup. There was something wrong in this world. I think that's I think that's where the season this is started. But yeah So there's definitely things that uh, we are looking to cover if we haven't covered already come and find us in the DMs as well friends and lovers, but we're going to start off with The Franchise. This came out in October if you need a sumptuous quality Criterion-worthy experience, Sam Mendes and all of that, the literal Sam Mendes, then this is where you go, friends and lovers, but, uh, Ref Max, we don't spoil anything.

3:38KT: So you're welcome to grab a snack, friends and lovers, you know, if you need a satiate yourself, go and get a beverage as well. So non-spoiler thoughts, kick us off, Oti.

3:48Oti: The Franchise leans into its delightful silliness with laugh-out-loud moments and sharp satire. While the pacing wanes near the end, it's still a solid, promising

4:01KT: Okay, Ouchie! The Franchise plays it straight in a zany world that is spiralling out of control. The characters have unique voices that play well to the chaos of filmmaking. It does remind me of, it's called Reboot, isn't it? With, uh, what's a Jackass guy, Johnny Knoxville. It, it, it did channel that, friends and lovers, my, like my top tier example of like buying into the descending madness and I guess the thriving in chaos of creativity and filmmaking would be Cobweb, with daddy of all daddies, Song Kang-ho. Like that would be my benchmark of what I would love, to see in regards to like a filmmaking set. totally. It reminded me of Arrested Development as well.

5:04Oti: Okay.

5:04KT: There's not a lot of shows that straddle the line of, like, even 30 Rock as well like there's not a lot of shows right now that do that that have like the wittiness the committing to the bit you know the the the the sensational sort of dialogue and really just leaning into the very specific and unique sort of character work that goes on like we don't have those sort of comedy like I'm not going to say they're elevated comedies like elevated horror but we don't really have those anymore.

5:40Oti: We don't, but I

5:42KT: Cause I'm not talking about Brooklyn Nine-Nine. That does not count.

5:45Oti: I think the Achilles heel of that is you get, you'd get characters who you probably wouldn't vibe with and the insistence

5:57KT: Call her out then.

5:59Oti: No, cause it's a non-spoiler. Uh, the insistence of that sort of, monotone sort of perspective and angle to their character becomes very grinding. And I'm

6:09KT: But she's one character in an ensemble.

6:11Oti: know, but it took me out every single time. And I was like, to the point where it's like distracting.

6:20KT: I agree, but she didn't make or break the show to

6:22Oti: She didn't, but I'm just saying what you're praising can also be the sort of It just doesn't work that way when you

6:30KT: We can't all sit around and watch Zoe Saldaña get rough with men in Lioness. Some of us want joy. And whimsical banter, is that okay? We can't all find a different terrorist on 24 and all of them Exactly! That's all I see you watch, Oti. The propaganda machine is working on you. Who did you vote for? Where were you on January 6th, Oti?

7:00Oti: Madness I agree it didn't make or break the show but it's something that you cannot not notice

7:12KT: you cannot not about. Do you

7:20Oti: it shrek be anything you come up before like I, my review said I liked this

7:27KT: and then what's the rest of your mouth doing?

7:34KT: Or is it all your mouth and you're talking out of your neck? Like, where's it coming from?

7:39Oti: I was just stating what you're praising it for could potentially have been like, you know, I gotcha.

7:45KT: And I'm saying you don't deserve it, bring it back

7:49Oti: And this is where I feel like you've listened to too much Kendrick. No, you don't need

7:53KT: You

7:55Oti: don't need that energy.

7:59KT: I'm, just glad you didn't watch Red One because you are a party pooper, sir. You're the presidential party pooper and you don't

8:07Oti: my silliness. I love leaning into stuff. We, we love Peacemaker. We love Suicide Squad, the second one.

8:16KT: No, we like both side

8:18Oti: the first one was a bit.

8:19KT: Justice for Jai Courtney.

8:22Oti: He'll always be viral to me.

8:24KT: Yeah. House of Ashes is coming up.

8:28Oti: I cannot wait. It's this year, right? It's next month or something. It's towards the end of this month or

8:33KT: It's out. Shoutouts to Paul from Film Busters. I wonder if we can tee up a collab. That'll be cute. Anyway. Like, you're not even spending, see? You're getting rusty, Oti. You're not even reviewing this fucking show. And if friends and lovers, you've watched the show, it's very clear who the annoying person was. And you know what Kendrick Lamar said, maybe Oti's a white comedian and he needs to stop speaking on black women. That's law.

8:58Oti: Wow.

9:00KT: You said I mentioned Kendrick. Well, there you go.

9:04Oti: The fam, alright. Just

9:07KT: Just say my name three times, I promise you'll see Candyman. Okay.

9:12Oti: Rest in peace, man. Tony.

9:16KT: I don't know how to feel that the last film we watched him in was Stream. It was a lot of fun. Friends and lovers, we love all films, even ones that feel scrappy and potentially blue core. It was well, but that was a fun one.

9:34Oti: eh?

9:35KT: I was trying to be subtle. But yes, friends and lovers, if you're looking for like a fun horror, just like really balls to the wall sort of horror, check out Stream.

9:45Oti: Yeah.

9:46KT: Let's move on. We are going to The Moogai, friends and lovers. If you weren't aware, we had the opportunity to interview Jon Bell, who was the writer-director. This film is also based on a short film. We haven't had a chance to watch the short film. I watched The Moogai as a part of the Sydney Film Festival, the premiere. It was a later screening. one, one of those sort of screenings and the film festival, and then we watched it together with the screener leading up to the interview. All right. This feels like a chunky boy, doesn't it?

10:19Oti: It does.

10:20KT: Yeah, you're going to regret missing all the fun. But yeah, your thoughts, my love.

10:25Oti: The Moogai delivers a compelling setup and shines as an Indigenous horror story. Strong performances anchor the film, but its unrealised potential leaves lingering "why" questions.

10:39KT: Wow. Okay.

10:42Oti: Yeah.

10:45KT: the, sort of qualms you're having in regards to the characters and the peoples, Oti. You're watching, You're watching too much of that 24. You, You, know, you know, that Jack Bauer would be looking for you, right? Are You, Samuel L. Jackson in Django? Do you think Bitch, you thought Okay, okay. We're very serious film people. Are you ready,

11:24Oti: Dingulus, go for it, tell me yours, man.

11:29KT: Tapping into Indigenous lore and an ensemble of well beloved talent carry a considered lens. At times, it felt as though, the potential to dig deeper was simplified for a broader understanding.

11:54KT: Uh, oh, so we're diving into my quote? Okay, uh, I guess we, we set the scene, friends and lovers. If you haven't watched the film, strongly recommend. and if you're not in so called Australia, it'll be interesting. Uh to get your thoughts as well, especially if you don't have like context of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. I guess while we're on that before we get to my quote, um, Kneecap actually comes to mind Because I I said a similar well, it's kind of it's kind of doing the opposite Kneecap was very specific That it didn't It didn't or it didn't feel the need to explain or give context

12:37Oti: to the broader audience

12:38KT: yeah Like I think broad strokes you understand that there's a difference between obviously Irish people um and you know the colonial British colonial crown like you you understand that I understood that, but then there were very specific comments that were made between Irish people that didn't feel um expounded upon enough. So that was Kneecap. This is kind of the opposite to me, where maybe there was a consciousness that it was going to be consumed outside of so called Australia, so they needed to make it a bit broader so people would be able to tap in, but then it's that specificity in regards to, you know, the lived and, and the lived experiences and the lore of Indigenous people.

13:30KT: that really bring the emotion but we didn't get to tap into that because we were on the first level does that make sense

13:37Oti: Yeah, I'm with you.

13:39KT: and then so so I guess you kind of said something similar in your I want to explore yours.

13:45Oti: So I really didn't know too much about the lore, maybe you did. So me

13:51KT: I didn't know a lot but I think a lot of like, you know, like a lot of like Indigenous cultures, whether it's you in Africa, or me in the Pacific, like, we always have some version of a boogeyman, essentially.

14:04Oti: Yeah. So me going into this, and I think it started quite strongly, it built its foundation well, and in my head I thought, we're going somewhere. I, I was fully bought into the character. I was, and some aspects of it was frustrating towards the decisions as to who they have next to them,

14:30KT: Was it, Was it frustrating because it was frustrating or was it frustrating because the story could have been somewhere that it didn't go or it went somewhere? It could have been.

14:39Oti: It was frustrating.

14:41KT: Okay. Thank you.

14:41Oti: Tentosine, you know, and we didn't get that. And I thought it was always coming. It was always coming, but it wasn't, you know, even the, the sort of relationship we get to see between, uh, the mother and daughter,

14:54KT: Yeah.

14:55Oti: It's sort of strained to a point where I'm like, it becomes uncomfortable sort

15:01KT: Yeah. But then that can, but I felt like that was a believable dynamic.

15:05Oti: A believable dynamic, but still frustrating, at least to me.

15:10KT: ago. Yeah, me too. Me too. It was frustrating to me too. But it wasn't frustrating because the story could have been better at that point in time.

15:17Oti: No, no, no, of course not. But then when you make that character and have that interaction, sort of, then towards the end, when something else happens that just, it sort of does a script flip in my head. And I'm like, ah, it didn't feel as if it was deserved. It didn't feel to me as if this is how it should have transpired to that point. And I think that's just to me, how, or at least my baggage coming in and watching

15:48KT: Uh huh

15:49Oti: a fully Indigenous story that I wanted to, to anchor myself into and to root for the characters and to see how, you know, to forget about the broad strokes sort of appeal and just

16:04KT: But you see what I'm saying?

16:05Oti: but just embrace it. Embrace the, the uncomfortability and knowing that it's fine.

16:15KT: Yeah.

16:15Oti: It's fine to be, to be in that sort of uncomfortable area while still making a story that's, that's interesting,

16:25KT: I think, I think we need to, we're not going to do spoilers, but I think we need to dive a little bit deeper just to further exemplify the points we're making because there are a lot of great things in this film. So I think if we stay on this surface, it's not going to get to where I my intention and my thoughts I want to be able to convey it as much as possible So we kind of need to excavate just one level down. So friends and lovers, uh, if you aren't familiar We do have like a few Usually on January 26th on Invasion Day or even just in general

17:01KT: We've done TV and film reviews that specifically focus on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander stories created by as well. This film had like a title card at the start where it mentions the stolen that's kind of it.

17:18Oti: Yeah,

17:18KT: that's kind of it for the whole film, which fine but I guess the context I will give cause we talked about the dynamic between, you know, the mom and her but I feel like that doesn't do it justice in a way of review So I just want to give this extra layer There's so much in this film. There's so much subtext That isn't applied in this film, which I feel is a loss for all of us and the example that I would give So we have Sarah, it's, you know, not, not any sort of spoiler, but it is revealed at some point, she was removed from her mother. Yeah. Circumstances I'm not going to mention, but she was removed from her mother and she was adopted by a white family.

18:07KT: This is a very common and still very present practice that is happening in so called Australia right now I don't think it necessarily plays into it that she is fairer I don't think that plays into the story of The Moogai. However, I will say when it comes to the dynamic of her being adopted by a white family And her rejecting her Aboriginal mother it physically Emotionally like spiritually and ancestrally bothered me. And I think that's what you were talking about as well. And it wasn't as if this writing is frustrating. It's just too. be that experience and just completely discount like and be embarrassed. Like I think, maybe, maybe not for you, but like for a lot of kids that grow up with like parents that migrated to a Western country. There is that feeling of like, Oh, it's so embarrassing.

19:11KT: Like I want to hide all of my ethnic shit because even if you don't try and hide it, you'll get bullied for it. Right. So there is that aspect. I feel like in The Moogai, we're dealing with Sarah where she's, you know, there's a lot of hate, whether it's self hate, whether it's resentment towards the mom, there's a lot that she's working through. And there are so many layers in that, but that's not exemplified in the film. She just comes off very, like, bratty.

19:41Oti: this is where, like, who you surround yourself with as well. And I just, ah, there's so many good things about this movie.

19:54KT: Yes.

19:55Oti: So many good, good things. And. I'm here for it. And it's, I was, I was so excited watching an Indigenous horror story. I felt like cool idea, cool concept, something that I've personally not seen before. So it was very rich in history and rich in even the setting up and telling us about, uh, the Stolen Generation, you know, I was like, Oh my God, we're going to eat,

20:22KT: Yeah.

20:23Oti: you know? So, um,

20:25KT: Cause you see it in like, uh, black horror films as well, being able to channel, whether it's, I guess, Get Out and Us is like in the conversation, Candyman as well. Like, there is a way to channel very real experiences in the element of horror in a way that is, it's a reclamation, right? It's not Evil Dead where they're reading from some, like, native book. Or, what was the one? Was it Baby Gage? Pet Sematary. Where they went to like an Indigenous burial ground. This is a re-centering. This is a reclamation. So there's something very exciting about it. And there's so much that I just, because the conversation that I had with Jon Bell, it was, it was rooted in, uh, the strength and the warmth and the joy of Indigenous women.

21:11Oti: Mm.

21:12KT: And that's where I guess, in that case, if I'm the interviewer, which I was, that was my choice to stay there. because he, he was in it, and I was in it, and we stayed there. But something that wasn't clear to me was the decisions from a storytelling point of view. Because we really could have gone there, even if you, like, listen to the conversation that we had.

21:35Oti: Yeah. And that's why I had my why in my review, because those so many moments, at least I thought they were pivotal in the storytelling that I just wanted. Anyway, good, enjoyable watch and something that I really wanted to see more of. And you know, like we've been watching a couple of Aussie films now. So, you know, it's interesting. It's a good time, man.

22:03KT: Right. Speaking of a good time. Oh, man. Oh, man. Thanks to Mickey and the team at Universal. we uh, talking about the film Red One. Also, friends and lovers, if you're in a nonlinear timeline, if you check on the podcast feed, we, attended the global virtual press conference.

22:29Oti: We sure did.

22:31KT: And we pre submitted and Lucy Liu answered our question.

22:36Oti: I thought, I thought, bruh, our podcast has reached. But

22:42KT: Rae and Lucy Liu, we're gathering our Charlie's Angels, that's for sure. But yes, so Oti hasn't gotten a chance to watch it yet. I'm going to read my non spoilery thoughts. I'm going to give you my, uh, review of Red One. Red One may be wrapped differently, but brings the same warm festive cheer needed during the merry season. A bit of action and a lot of heart.

23:08Oti: Nice.

23:10KT: I need to address the Dwayne The Rock Johnson in the room, Oti. Have a problem. I have qualm. I take umbrage. With motherfuckers that treat movies as films That expect gourmet in a fast food establishment And I don't even mean that as a diss But every summer blockbuster you're going to get Dwayne The Rock Johnson in at least three movies And you know what the world is still turning Because everyone plays a role in entertainment And that's what Dwayne The Rock Johnson is. He found his niche. I love Dave Bautista, but he's talking out of his neck at the moment, saying he wants to be a thespian. My brother, get in the Stubering because you also have a role to play. So does John Cena. Like, it's fun, it's cute, we can enjoy it. I personally get annoyed, and I don't know why Red One, I don't know if it's because of the US election that people just need to feel big again.

24:20KT: Like they need to feel big in the dominion of their home. Like, I don't know what it is, but everyone is like dunking on this movie and specifically dunking on Dwayne The Rock Johnson. Now I will say I had to walk back the, the level of energy I had after I saw him in his Moana Maui fat suit or whatever that was. Someone said he stole the wig from The Scorpion King and he put it back on. I'm being facetious. I, I will still go up in this particular regard. but this was a fun movie, man. It was a fun movie. It's like a nice in between of like your classic sort of Home Alone's, A Christmas Story. If you're okay with seeing kids get slapped in the mouth, then, uh, It's a Wonderful Life.

25:09KT: as well,

25:10Oti: yeah, best Christmas movie. Yeah.

25:12KT: So it's like an in between of there and a way big jump to Die Hard. Like there's a, there's a big in between of like, God. Dad! Like, I don't want to watch movies with you! Like that's what this movie is. And I don't necessarily care for Chris Evans. I kind of forgot he exists for a moment, if I'm being perfectly honest. but it's a lot of fun. Like, if you want to have fun, and even if you don't have fun, that's okay, but stop acting like this is the fall of, of, of, of the golden cinema as you know it.

25:45KT: Shut up. If you don't want to call out white feminism in Barbie, shut the fuck up. If you don't acknowledge that America Ferrera, although willingly, became a puppet for white feminism in Barbie, then shut the fuck up. If you don't understand that Moana isn't specific to a place in the Pacific Ocean, and they picked and plucked aesthetics like Raya and the Last Dragon, and you want to herald Moana as some sort of banner for the world to see. How great it is, then you also don't understand that's more of a flex on the corporations as opposed to it is to the lived experiences of my people.

26:33KT: But that's where you should be getting frustrated over. Martin Scorsese, if you have a Martin Scorsese and Robert De Niro and a crime, Robert De Niro is going to blame black people every time. Talk about that. It's so easy to talk about Tarantino. Talk about Scorsese. Of course he can be great, but there are layers to have here. Right? So if you actually want to, dunking on Red One is level one film criticism. You're not doing any, doing anything brave.

27:05Oti: Yeah, I saw a couple of reviews of people talking about The Rock and his performances, not only for the Red One, but in Tooth Fairy or whatever the fuck that movie was

27:17KT: that

27:18Oti: That makes sense. and saying, oh, look, he doesn't even have expressions like, bro, who fucking cares?

27:24KT: Yeah. Who cares?

27:25Oti: Look at that movie. Then look, the thing is that you just have to draw a line in the sand and understand that it's not meant to be to cater for that sort of level of, of criticism, at least or

27:43KT: about how Kevin Spacey is coming back. Talk about how Shia LaBeouf is apparently, you know, like all of the allegations go poof like shut up.

27:52Oti: This is a Christmas movie. You take your bloody kids to the cinema and have a good time and that's about

27:59KT: it or don't and spend meaningful time with your kids choose

28:02Oti: who the fuck wants to do that.

28:03KT: Exactly. We don't know about that. Anyway, just very quickly going back to Red One. I enjoyed it. I had a good time. It was because we were prepping for the virtual press conference. It was just me and the security guard. But I had a great time. I was having fun. I laughed out loud. There was an appearance from

28:27Oti: Cool.

28:28KT: Our Tormund from, uh, Game of Thrones. I think that was very good casting. it didn't take itself too seriously. And you know what? For, for the for the audience that this film was made for, I actually really enjoyed the exploration of what it means to not necessarily be a good or bad person, but how your actions can reflect that. Because there's kind of a, like a lamentation about how there's a good list and there's a naughty list, And what does that mean? Right. And people need something to hope for in this world. know about a muscly JK Simmons carbing up on some cookies, but I had a good time.

29:15Oti: know what? I think, I think Kenan was saying this, uh, I was talking about how he misses just having silly things to watch. I earlier, I liked The Franchise. I just said I had issues with it, which is fair. Just having silly shit on that's not meant to fucking be brooding. You're not watching The Penguin or you're not watching Spider-Man versus Superman and being like, Oh, this brooding men, like fam, everything's fucking serious now, you just want to put something silly on. And that's why I'm like, we watching Poppa's House and you know, I can't remember the last time I watched a sitcom with bloody laugh track.

30:06KT: Because there's still skill involved.

30:08Oti: And, and it's just like, it's just good to be in that space without having to think about everything. The world is hard enough as it is, man.

30:15KT: Oh yeah.

30:16Oti: Let yourself go a little bit.

30:18KT: Yeah.

30:19Oti: Enjoy life.

30:21KT: Yeah. You sounded like the pastor. Master! Bah! Okay, well, uh, let's finish off with another one, uh, that I watch press related reasons. Wicked.

30:38Oti: Oh!

30:40KT: Wicked leads with heart, speaks to the misunderstood in us and finds the perfect balance of honouring the beloved world and standing out on its own.

30:50Oti: Nice.

30:53KT: Sir would like to put in a request to do a full review when you get a chance to watch Wicked. It's been a busy time. It's always been a nasty time as you know, friends and lovers Uh, but Oti hasn't gotten a chance to watch Wicked. I guess the sort of context uh I had only just watched The Wiz a couple of months ago and that was for the Kendrick Lamar and Drake beef. That's literally my entry into the Wizard of Oz. I'd never watched the OG Wizard of Oz. So when we got the Wicked press junket, before the screening for Wicked, preparing for the interview, we watched The Wizard of. So I guess we'll do a full review and you can talk about it in more detail there, but I guess, what was your earliest memory watching The Wizard of Oz, and how many times do you think you've watched

31:55KT: up. Oh wow.

31:59KT: Okay. And you

32:04Oti: Oh, okay. Oh yeah.

32:09KT: Oh yeah.

32:10Oti: You know, it felt like we're watching, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory again,

32:14KT: Yes,

32:15Oti: which was just so fun.

32:16KT: Yes

32:18Oti: So usually I'm surprised a lot of the times that I've gone back to watch things that I thought were classics or things that I thought I loved growing up and watching them with you and being like, Oh,

32:31KT: I don't like how you emphasize you. But anyway

32:33Oti: Ha ha ha ha. But yeah. I loved it. So I'm very, very interested in watching Wicked.

32:42KT: Wicked was great. I loved it.

32:45Oti: Strong performances,

32:46KT: strong performances, vulnerable performances. Let's, let's use that as a descriptor. Friends and lovers, this was in preparation for the press junket. Uh, so it did just happen to be me in the screening with the security guard, it kind of felt like I was with Oti because guard. No, different security guard. I got a rotation of security guards. Oti, man's kept yawning, bruv.

33:12Oti: Ah!

33:15KT: Like, and I

33:15Oti: singing. Yeah, but

33:17KT: but I felt like I wasn't even allowed to enjoy it, you know what I mean? Like, cause he just kept yawning. Anyway. But, never, obviously never watched the, uh, play. But I loved it. Like, I think, I wouldn't necessarily say the meme-ification of Wicked ruined the film. I wouldn't say that, but obviously there's, you know, the, all the conversations about Cynthia Erivo, her saying this is the most offensive photo. But I guess in context, you know, she is a Black British woman, and we saw, or I guess we didn't see, the coverage That the British press had for Cynthia Erivo.

33:58Oti: Oh, was it, was it a thing?

34:00KT: the other thing? Oh, no. I think they're really different. Yeah, I guess,

34:10Oti: Erivo is big though.

34:12KT: the

34:13Oti: Yeah, I guess, I guess big doesn't matter when you're black

34:16KT: last So I guess a lot of it is compounded, right? But there was a lot of meme-ification of Wicked. I don't think that ruined the movie, but obviously it can, you know, it's like kind of like when you have like the jury and they're like, uh, just ignore that massive news report that you saw. over there. The jury

34:41Oti: Report has not been spoiled.

34:43KT: Exactly. But yes, Wicked. I loved it. I absolutely loved it. I didn't know what I was getting into. I didn't know what the songs were, aside from obviously the Defying Gravity song because, little kids love singing that on like talent shows all the time.

35:07Oti: so no song in The Wizard of Oz makes it into, I know it's a different thing,

35:11KT: No.

35:11Oti: I don't know. I've not watched Wicked the play

35:14KT: No, that's okay. oh, you're not going with your Zoe Saldañas to go and watch it?

35:18Oti: Tsk, soon. okay.

35:21KT: I loved it. And, you know, I even said it in the interview. I hope we get to a time where video games and anime can be adequately adapted the way that Wicked was adapted into a film. And that's even without me watching the play. You like that record?

35:41Oti: Look at eh?

35:44KT: Ease on down the road? I used an urban reference So you could understand me. You're today, on? I'm unhinged because I'm the Tin Man. Put some oil down my spine. Ha ha ha

36:07KT: See, I was being very eloquent and you ruined it. So, but I, I loved everything about it. I love the world that was set in Wicked. I loved the, cause, okay, if we want to be very, very, very, very, very real, I also believe you can spoil things, even if it's a book, a play, been around for decades, I still think you can spoil it because some people might not have seen stuff, right? So without getting into too much detail, You have Ariana Grande's character, who I think she did very well, you know? they're like tweets about like, uh, in plays you have to have perfect diction. This is a film motherfucker. Shut up. Like literally everyone just shut up.

36:49Oti: Play Wonko.

36:50KT: Yeah. Just, just Watch your baby movies with your baby food. You'll be fine. I loved Ariana Grande. I think, her acting is Galinda or Glinda the Good Witch. She had a very, a facetious sort of tone, like it was more than just playful it was more than mischievous. I would say it's facetious, that it's a very specific Ariana Grande to me. But remember the Ariana Grande that was licking doughnuts? that So it was kind of yeah, it was kind of like I know what i'm doing But that was kind of her in this film. and that's not even like that's not even a dig. like I think that was fun Like I think she was very playful But When you look at the film and the way the characters are set, it's obviously between uh, Elphaba, which is Cynthia Erivo's character, and Glinda the Good Witch, which is Ariana Grande's character.

37:48KT: You have in Glinda a white, in, in quotes, perfect looking Everything's popular. Like she, like, she's the it gal, She's the hot gal, right? Everything goes her way. She probably hasn't really experienced any real hardships in life. And then you have Elphaba that was pretty much banished by her father because she was green. And no, but like, you see what I'm saying? So like everything was working against her to even love herself. In a world that told her she wasn't good enough. So even from like a point of view, there's so much. There's so much you can tap into there. And Cynthia Erivo really took it all the way there.

38:39KT: man, like next to Widows, her best performance. I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I'm just trying to get Oti for us to do Widows, on the podcast, friends and lovers. But. That dynamic was great. The music numbers were great. And I guess the advice that I would give friends and lovers, and yes, I would believe that I have some sort of elevation to give this specific advice, accept films for what they are.

39:11KT: Stop trying to expect it to be something and just take it for what it is. If you take it for what it is and you don't like it, then that's cool. But there's a lot of wars and a lot of like barriers that get created, that inhibit your ability to enjoy

39:27Oti: I, I guess I agree with that to some extent because I've talked about movies here that I expected it to be one way and feel disappointed that it didn't go that way. just because of the execution.

39:41KT: How come my daddy movie don't love me man and trying to improve that to be like, that's fine. Well, I, like, sorry to this man, but I was sitting in that, uh, screening, just me and that yawning security guard. And when this guy came on, Mr. Playboy, the Tom Cruise in his head, I just rolled my eyes and, said, oh brother, like, I'm pretty sure he's the guy like he's that Ryan Gosling like we're supposed to be thirsting over this man. And I'm like, I don't see

40:22Oti: The horse thing? The mounting of the horse?

40:25KT: Or the dismounting? I, I, just

40:33Oti: have never heard of a mounting being a central thing. So I was piqued.

40:39KT: but yeah, it was uh, it was a great, it was a great film. I can't wait to watch it again. and I guess keep your eyes peeled, friends and lovers for the full review.

40:48Oti: Uh, I'm glad you had fun with it.

40:55KT: Oh, thank you. Friends and lovers for joining us another week in the For Your Reference podcast. Uh, anything you want to close off with Oti?

41:06Oti: Not really. Yeah, it's, it's, it's been good delving into our Ref Max bag

41:12KT: It's been fun. You know, I've missed you. I've missed you. There's been some interview things, but you are the only star to me, Oti, and that's, that's superstar Keyshia Cole star. Yeah.

41:27Oti: Too romantic, eh? Um,

41:32KT: Um, if you want to see the non romantics, Uh, the fighter in me friends and lovers on Twitter, Instagram, Bluesky, where, and also we've tried TikTok again, we're @ForYourRefPod,

41:45Oti: right? As an email. Uh, hello@fyrpodcast.com.

41:49KT: We're also on, stream GNX, podcasts. And, and keep that cruddy away from us during Super Bowl time, please.

42:01Oti: It's gonna be wild.

42:03KT: If you'd like to leave a rating and review and we'll see you guys in the Pacific Ocean because the Moana interviews are coming out.

42:10Oti: It is.

42:11KT: Bye.

42:13Oti: See you.