Welcome to Chippendales – In Perpetuity

Full transcript of Welcome to Chippendales – In Perpetuity.

0:00KT: It's another week in the foyer reference household. And it is really and truly the first leading Kamal Na Gianni we've had on the foyer reference podcast, ot,

0:10Oti: right? Wild.

0:14KT: We do love this man. Um, history of the world, part two. Definitely go and watch it.

0:19Oti: You love your soups.

0:22KT: We do, we love our soups. We have covered Silicon Valley, but that is more of an ensemble sort of cast in a patron sort of format. We have covered, um, Eternals as well. I actually really, really, really love.

0:51Oti: and what our role it was.

0:53KT: absolutely. If you would like another roller deck, this goes into our stripper edition.

1:23Oti: and OT

1:24KT: Position the spotlight on the dirty dance with the devil of V I P [00:01:30] clubs, immigrant expectation, and the American.

1:34Oti: Ooh,

1:35KT: Make it rain on the raining men's with welcome to Chippendales this week.

2:18Oti: Mm-hmm.

2:19KT: What a world, um, as well as Anna Lee Ashford, who you may be familiar with, an American Horror Story. Mm-hmm. Um, also on Broadway as well. Who, who, who? Wow, wow, wow. This is also a time to say, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler.

2:43Oti: because that ed up me.

2:44KT: Um, it was literally, anyone could have caught that. But if you are the one to feel the bullet, my love, that's the bullet of truth.

2:53Oti: Mm-hmm.

2:54KT: But we're not covering power. This week. We're talking about Welcome to Chippendales. [00:03:00] Um, well let's get into first impressions.

3:14Oti: I really, I heard of Chippendales back in the day.

3:24KT: Sherman, but I guess we can call him Steve cuz that's how he wanted

3:27Oti: He wanted to be known as Steve. Yeah. So we'll respect that. But yeah, it was wild and, and watching this, mo watching this because we ha we saw an interview of. Kamal and he was explaining everything about the show.

4:02KT: It was a true crime story that was almost hard to believe that was a slow burn that was able to keep a flame right up until the finale.

4:13Oti: phenomenon. Mm-hmm.

4:13KT: But I absolutely agree with you. Um, I think it was more like in an SNL sketch, like a Chris Farley sort of Chippendales that I was more familiar with.

4:59Oti: are.

5:00KT: Um, but yeah, so this show was very interesting.

5:15Oti: it. Mm-hmm.

5:16KT: It was one of those shows where it didn't immediately grab us. Um, but I would say a, a lot of the reasons why it was hard, like I am, my body immediately rejected.

5:34Oti: Yeah.

5:34KT: I think is the best way to say it. Right. Um, there's definitely a lot of themes that I wanna speak to, um, as well. But generally I really, really enjoyed, um, this show. Uh, you know, a, a lot of my frustrations can be because of the characters and obviously I'm talking about Steve Banerjee, um, in part.

6:54Oti: Mm-hmm.

6:55KT: So let's get into the themes that I have. Um, I wanna talk about true crime in general. I would say, would it be safe to say that in the four year reference household, you are more of the consumer of the true crime genre?

7:09Oti: Not particularly. I, I, I don't even dabble in it anymore per se.

7:13KT: You're practically Octavia Spencer, in truth be told,

7:18Oti: what is

7:18KT: Gabrielle Union, but I mean in way of, um, the, like the serial podcast, Ana and Saed, there was an update to that. Friends and lovers, if you didn't know [00:07:30] about that as well, like I felt a way about that and I feel a way a lot about true crime. Because it's the salaciousness that a lot of us in our banal, mediocre, very boring lives want to clinging onto without realizing that this is about real people.

7:47Oti: True. There's an aspect of, um, understanding that the victims are real and they have families and all that. I think with the distinction of something like Serial, where it's super investigative journalism, I, I can appreciate that level of details in digging because it's not necessarily

8:04KT: are, Sal aiding over that. That's, that's the problem that I have with true crime generally.

8:08Oti: Fair enough. It, it's, it's different from like when we watched or Netflix released Dharma and I was like, yeah, I'm not interested in that.

8:16KT: Yeah, because you know why, like, you know why that was made?

8:41Oti: Agreed and shock to me. Apparently a lot of his victims are black. Who knew that?

8:46KT: Young black men.

8:47Oti: Oh, wild.

8:48KT: But, you know, ot, it comes back to, and, you know, love Lord and SPEs to Isae. You know, they had, they had like inside shows inside of Insecure, but they also had companion [00:09:00] podcasts and looking for, Latoya was one of them.

10:26Oti: Mm-hmm. So the interesting bit is trying to get [00:10:30] his American dream. You know, he's, he's walking in a, in a bodega and he's just chilling and he gets interactions with racist teens who keep on insulting him and making fun of him to the point where he feels that he needs to transform who he is as a person.

10:47KT: Like, I feel like it's a very simple, straightforward answer, but I will never understand, personally, I will never understand the psychology of an immigrant being racist to other immigrants. Like it doesn't make sense to me.

11:04Oti: shit doesn't make sense and it's cause it's hard to see though. And you can see Simon was really struggling with that aspect.

11:34KT: I don't, yeah, like the level of, you know, you know when they talk about like small man syndrome, like the Napoleon sort of complex.

11:59Oti: It did, [00:12:00] because then he has, he has to go that extra yard to feel as if he's bigger than everyone else. Yeah. In the room or any other person, you know, he, he put white people on a pedestal and everyone. He felt he was just, they were just pretty much that of the earth.

12:15KT: On a perpetuity pedestal.

12:17Oti: On a perpetuity.

12:23KT: was the Martha, that was the Da Vinci Code Apple.

12:27Oti: Yeah. To those, you know, to some point I was like, you know what? You go get yours. Yeah, you go do and scam those business partners adding care, game game

12:37KT: don't do that to other, like immigrant slash minorities. You know what I mean?

12:41Oti: Yeah. The minute it's, it's turned into him exploiting or, or, or even being prejudicial against other races, I was like, nah, come on

12:50KT: on. Like this is where we leave you, bro. Like burning down bars and stuff. Like that's, that's fine, but like as soon as you like, aim it at people that don't deserve. Yeah. I don't know. And it kind of rolls into the next theme. Um, like they kind of go hand in hand.

14:08Oti: True. And that's something that he didn't understand up until his

14:12KT: I don't get it. Don't get

14:15Oti: Like it's, it's, it's wild that even in the sort of good immigrant aspect, the relationship with the mother was sort of really with his, with his family even wasn't, wasn't that good?

14:27KT: Yeah. And no one, but no one wanted to come to America. It wasn't like his

14:31Oti: family was well off.

14:33KT: no,

14:33Oti: living and it was like bra. What are you doing there? Yeah. You know, he had this American dream vision of what he wanted to be. Yeah. The rub shoulders with celebrities. Yeah. And that's his driving motivator.

14:54KT: money.

15:08Oti: That is a dugger to the heart. I would've needed therapy to unwind a lot of that shit.

15:14KT: Uh, I think Banerjee was a bit too far caught, but it was. Like, it's just, again, friends and lovers, you know, we, it's, it's impossible and it would be disingenuous to say that whenever we watch, whenever we experience, whenever we even come on a podcast to review things, it would be very disingenuous to say that we don't bring our own selves when we're consuming something.

15:50Oti: So

15:50KT: I've got a couple of examples. Um, talking about the good immigrant, um, the first one, which was a really juicy one, and you know, sometimes in TV shows they introduce a plot line and for whatever reason they might not explore it.

16:23Oti: Yeah. Cause it's got muddy now. Exactly. He thinks he can walk into, so they pull up. Mm-hmm.

16:27KT: And I think, obviously this wasn't to the level [00:16:30] that we know Chippendales today, or even like at the peak of the season, but he felt like he was ready to celebrate, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and he got to the front desk.

16:53Oti: Mm-hmm.

16:54KT: Even if we have, even if we have booked a reservation, even if they do charge us in advance, we've all been through that sort of scenario before.

17:13Oti: Yeah, he had a racial hierarchy in his mind that he wanted to implement. Uh, he saw as many white people in his re in his, in his bar. The better, um, kept the black people away apparent.

17:35KT: He was based on a real dancer though.

17:37Oti: Oh, I thought the didn't have a black dancer.

17:39KT: Well, let, let me um, go back to Don Cheeto's, algae rhythm I m db. So his name was Sababu. He wasn't at the time of the start of Chippendales, but he was one of the first black dancers.

18:23Oti: Oh. Discovery id section

18:26KT: Discovery id, I thought I put the lock on. Uh, in the late hours.

18:32Oti: Oti. Oh no go. Going through parental control.

18:37KT: Um, but you bring up a really good point because that's another example I had in the good immigrant sort of theme.

19:23Oti: Yeah, he does. And this is, this is where I started having issues, bigger [00:19:30] issues

19:30KT: Just, just now?

19:31Oti: now? No, cause it, it, it was so his character was sort of unraveling Yeah. Really, really quickly.

19:53KT: The races come up. Yeah.

19:55Oti: You know it, it's hard to disassociate all those things.

19:58KT: I think there was even a scene, oh, I don't know. I don't know if I'll ever go back and watch this show, but there was a scene in the office where Otis is talking to Banerjee and he's asking, Hey, can I shadow you?

20:28Oti: Yeah. And, and, and it took Irene's intervention to even get orders that, you know, like sort of side gig. Mm-hmm.

20:36KT: Because it goes against all laws of nature. Cause that's not even self-preservation at that point. You are just being fucking racist. We don't need to spend a lot of time on this, but I do have a theme in general about the concept of male strip clubs. I guess we can talk about it in regards to like television or even just entertainment.

21:01Oti: Mm-hmm.

21:02KT: Uh, you know, friends and lovers. Um, I don't think I will ever be interested enough to do a full review on Good luck to you Theo Grande. Um, but I had some fundamental qualms, quarrels, and quandaries with that film because it really much distills. It can be any person, but I would usually say women that have taken a caregiver role, whether it's, you know, through family, through having children, through et cetera, et cetera, that make a choice to, um, you know, have particular sort of priorities repress their sexuality and don't take accountability for it.

22:10Oti: Mm-hmm.

22:10KT: Right. So I don't know, like it kind of, it kind of got on my nerves, but I don't necessarily think it's to do with the show. I think it's just that sort of context that I come with.

22:21Oti: He did try to push the limit of what's accepted. It was pretty much everything goes

22:26KT: but why are you trying to reach down and grab what's in Otis's pants and you don't [00:22:30] even know where your CL is fuck off?

22:31Oti: Oh, Otis needs to show them,

22:33KT: oh my, Ot, Banerjee, friends and office. Do you have a direct line to India or what?

22:44Oti: Wow. Cause you could tell they had. They were a bit trepidatious at fast. Yeah. Like, Hey, this is a bit weird. And they raised the issue with Banerjee and he was like, nah, the more they do that, the more they'll tip, the more they'll come, the more they'll tell their friends. They wanted to create that sort of fantastical element where everything goes.

23:04KT: We haven't really had a chance to talk about Nick de Noia, um, as well as Denise. Apparently Denise is like a culmination of people. She doesn't really exist, um, in this sort of context. But we haven't talked about Nick de Noia at all. And obviously we love Murray Butler. Um, go and check out our last of us episode that we did recently.

23:31Oti: Everything. Right? Yeah. It, it was there, there's one thing going in and just saying manics.

23:38KT: Sure.

23:40Oti: But seeing them in a groove or in a choreographic sort of way, then it changes things.

23:46KT: Are you working on your own Mandingo scientist choreography?

23:49Oti: I am.

23:50KT: Oh, yes.

23:52Oti: No, but he, he pretty much took Chippendales to the next level. Mm-hmm. He wanted to make it. Something more than just, [00:24:00] yeah. Yeah. A and that's where Steve started getting, again, he started getting a bit weird because it's like, no, Chippendale is just supposed to be men, derating and all that.

24:10KT: No, I think he just wanted low effort. Just women are gonna turn up anyway,

24:14Oti: But Nick had different visions. Yeah. He had, he had something way grander than that. Yeah. It's just sad that it, it, it all ended the way he did because I thought he had such a really savvy idea and even taking it globally.

24:26KT: Yeah, but I think it was also because it wasn't Banerjee's idea, And it was getting jealous of all of the TV spots. And I must say, um, you know, as much as we stay injected into the matrix of the show, I just saw Danes from Silicon Valley when he was on tv.

24:50Oti: uh, oh man. His glasses were getting Stevie.

24:55KT: Oh. But it was like, it was that Carman from South Park, like there were delicious tears of sadness. I loved, well, it was like sweat, but it was delicious and I loved it and I'm like, you fucking idiot. You deserve this.

25:08Oti: Yeah. Cause at the end of the day, people started associating, uh, Nick to Chippendales.

25:13KT: Yeah. Mr.

25:14Oti: Chippendales, you know, and, and, and that really irritated Par,

25:17KT: but you're not the one that they fantasize about according to the calendars that he makes. He's not the one the housewives are dreaming about.

25:24Oti: Yeah, man, I would've just been happy being in the background and let the money roll. I didn't care who the bloody face [00:25:30] is.

25:30KT: Oh, okay. So you're only Heisenberg when it comes to the drug game?

25:33Oti: Yes.

25:36KT: So your dick game stays in the back seat.

25:39Oti: It can stay in the back

25:40KT: seat. Okay. Oh, but that was so, that was so interesting and we might as well, um, move into the, actually before we go to the next. Theme. This is another trivia fact that I saw that I don't think we ever came across when we were doing any reading.

26:06Oti: wonderful circle.

26:07KT: Yeah. Um, under the stripper name Christian Bain.

27:07Oti: clock. Yeah. Cause he thought he'd monopolized, um, male dancing in clubs bra. Yes. What did he think? If you have an idea that makes mad people will do it.

27:22KT: It

27:32Oti: Yeah, it's the concept, right? It's the, it's the, it's the concept of Chippendales that he thought was so unique that it's, it shouldn't be replicated anywhere else. Yeah. Well, in reality it is just men dancing in a club.

27:46KT: but a Big Mac is still a burger at the end of the day,

27:48Oti: Oh, so disappointing. Text me back.

27:52KT: Oh, okay. I didn't know that's where we were going, but there you go. Um, and then there, there's definitely like sort of criminal activity, um, that goes on in the show. And one of the, I guess like pivotal sort of moments, Hey, is Murray Butler becoming Sean Bean?

28:12Oti: He is.

28:12KT: Well in the last two we've seen. Um, but anyway, um, what did you think about the hit on Nick de Noia?

28:22Oti: Yeah, it was. Um, but he saw it coming, especially after the perpetuity thing. And this is why [00:28:30] Pride comes for a fall may. If you

28:31KT: you called it though,

28:32Oti: If you don't know. You could see. He didn't know what perpetuity meant, but

28:36KT: but I didn't know that's how the scene was going happen.

28:40Oti: You could see, you could see in his eyes, he didn't know what it meant, and he could, you know, he just wa he was like, I can't, I can't, I can't admit, I don't know what it meant. And Nick asked him flat out, do you know what he meant?

28:53KT: But obviously that might be a machismo ego thing. He's not gonna be like, oh yeah, sorry, I lied.

29:00Oti: Get your macho Randy man, savage. Your egos out.

29:05KT: Why does Randy Savage come to mind when you think of that?

29:08Oti: Because his machos pretended to be Ma too. Okay, thanks. Back when WWF was a thing.

29:16KT: Yeah. Now you've got Super Mario Vince McMahon out in the streets.

29:22Oti: That was one of the funniest scenes in the show. Hands down,

29:25KT: It was funny, but it was also like there's no coming back from there,

29:29Oti: especially after I got Ray and Ray kissing his ring or some shit. Love it. Disgusting. But you could see that. It was only ever going to end one way.

29:40KT: Oh, absolutely.

29:41Oti: Even I didn't know what was gonna happen.

29:49KT: Yeah. And this, this was obviously based on real events, but even if we were watching this as a TV show, we would be like, there's no way Nick Denoia makes it out alive.

29:58Oti: Mm-hmm.

29:58KT: You know what I mean? Like, [00:30:00] cause at that point the interviews, the new club in New York, like there was too much being taken away.

30:17Oti: He started making a lot of amateur mistakes.

30:23KT: Oh my God,

30:24Oti: for him to realize he hadn't checked. Oh my God. He hadn't verified that he looked properly.

30:29KT: because he didn't wanna admit it.

30:30Oti: Yeah. And all months had 31 days or some shit.

30:34KT: If anything. If anything, this is the calendar poster boy of going to therapy because he even bought a printing press because he couldn't resolve his childhood issues and his daddy issues.

30:47Oti: Yeah, it is true. Some people just don't need to have that level of money,

30:52KT: but like, no one knows you, like your parents and his mom, like you said, it stung and it hurt. But she wasn't wrong.

31:01Oti: True. Cause I, when, when she said that, I was like, wait, what? That, that sounded really, really harsh. Yeah. And I was like, who deserves to hear something like that?

31:10KT: like him.

31:11Oti: true.

31:14KT: Oh, that perpetuity. Oh man. That gives me a good cackle. Like just thinking about the perpetuity thing. Oh, it's funny. Um, and also he put a hit out on the dancers and this was like years after.

31:28Oti: Yeah. His ring kissing friend [00:31:30] is the one that sold him out. Anyway,

31:31KT: What's up with all of this kissing portrayal?

31:37Oti: has to do something with saliva. Saliva makes you betray anyone,

31:41KT: man. Where were you thick in 2020. O feel like there are some abandoned web threads.

31:51Oti: Now you know all those pango Lindsay.

31:58KT: Oh man.

32:02Oti: No, no, no. It was one off. It's a miniseries. It,

32:05KT: but that's what I'm saying. There's

32:06Oti: there's nothing to come back

32:07KT: But it was a moment.

32:09Oti: It was a moment. It was, um, the thing that they, that really disturbed me, sort of at the end is Irene's involvement in all this.

32:19KT: Yeah. Is this where we say a legend again?

32:22Oti: Yeah. This is why we say a legend.

32:36KT: Uh, I would say everyone, especially men, are accountable for their own actions.

32:43Oti: I agree with you, but not when you are married to that man.

32:46KT: well, I guess that's why we're not married. My love.

32:48Oti: It's one thing because it wasn't even a ride or die thing, it was just cause she wasn't a ride or die. She just backed out and said, yeah, it's not my problem anymore. Well,

32:58KT: I guess that would talk to the [00:33:00] portrayal of the show because in the show, Irene was very morally righteous.

33:04Oti: To a point

33:06KT: No. Even like, okay. It did get to a point where she's like, if you're gonna do it, do it fucking right. But before that, before that she was, she

33:15Oti: was rush just before she

33:16KT: Yeah, but she was trying to appeal to him about the v i P club. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

33:23Oti: You threw a tantrum.

33:35KT: I'm just waiting for you to talk about snowfall. You, you love a, a strong matriarch, don't you, ot?

33:42Oti: I sure do.

33:43KT: Just to tear them down.

33:44Oti: Mm-hmm.

33:47KT: That's interesting.

34:06Oti: Yeah. And, and it wasn't even clear the end, what happened to Irene outside of you doing your own research?

34:22KT: Yeah, absolutely agree. Oh, did you give enough time for Otis? Was there anything else you wanted to say about Otis?

34:28Oti: Uh, I'm a fan of Lady [00:34:30] Killers now.

34:30KT: right. Um, I really enjoyed Quinton Player. I hope we see him just in general in our general, sort of watching. Like he was really great in this show. I think he brings a lot of, um, presence on screen. So, yeah, I'll be really excited to see him in general, and I think it was just a very solid show overall.

35:01Oti: If you want some kumal goodness in your life, I'd reference Love Barge with sse.

35:06KT: Ooh. Um, I'm sticking more to like the aesthetic. Um, and I guess maybe the themes that get explored, I'm going to reference. I'm also very excited for the next season of Mixx.

35:19Oti: Nice. Good job stars.

35:21KT: If you'd like tickets to the Welcome to the Dales, uh, on Twitter and Instagram, we alpha your

35:26Oti: right? Us an email@helloforpodcast.com.

35:29KT: We're also on True Crime sometimes podcast, if you'd like to leave a rating and review and we'll see you guys next.

35:35Oti: See y'all.

35:36KT: Bye.