Uncut Gems – Addicted to Demany

Full transcript of Uncut Gems – Addicted to Demany.

0:00KT: Yeehaw. Hot diggity dog. Welcome friends and lovers to our sixty ninth review episode if you are indeed super nasty. This episode came out as a part of our learn it series on our Patreon in February. So enjoy. Grab yourself a snack. Oti and I are busy doing other things, and enjoy the show. Hey, friends and lovers. Welcome back to For Your Reference. You got your host, KT.

0:00Oti: And Oti.

0:00KT: And stop mining for those black opals and put your Furbies in the safe. Because this week, we are covering the Safdie brothers Uncut Gems.

1:06Oti: Uncut Gems indeed.

1:09KT: And my pleasure was cut very early, might I say Oti? Let's get into the stats for this film. It first premiered on the 08/30/2019 in the Telluride Film Festival. It recently became available on Netflix, which is where we found it. Mhmm. Hopefully, by this time, The US Netflix might have got it as well. Yeah. Hopefully. Hey, you know, we gotta get our rewards wherever we can. So it did quite well in the box office. According to Wikipedia, the budget was less than $20,000,000 and the cumulative worldwide gross $47,900,000. I

1:58KT: don't know much about gems but it seems a bit overvalued if you ask me.

2:04Oti: I think most of the budget went to the cast to get them ear plugs.

2:08KT: Oh, yeah. Get them shouting lessons. But wow. Quite a cast, Adam Sandler, Julia Fox, Eric Bogosian, Lakeith Stanfield, and the ever iconic, ever eternal Adele Dazeem. Adele Dazeem. Otherwise known as Idina Menzel. Kevin Garnett is an actual NBA basketballer. Yep. From what I understand.

2:39Oti: From what you understand. Which is You've never had Kevin Garnett before. I have a zero net of reference.

2:45KT: There's your basketball wordplay. Alright. Right there. Well, I guess, let's dive into our first impressions, which is what we always do in the For Your Reference household. If this is the first time listening to our podcast, you are What is the highest gem, Oti?

3:04Oti: Emerald.

3:06KT: You are the Emerald Abacus in the For Your Reference household and we fucking love you. If you've listened many other times, then you are also an Emerald in the For Your Reference household. So thank you so much for sticking with us. And I guess let's get into our first impressions. My first impression actually has a foundational qualm.

3:26Oti: Foundational qualm. A foundational gem.

3:26KT: So you get started, sir.

3:26Oti: Alright. So we've had this movie since last year and people were really saying that it's it makes their top 10 list of the best movie of of that year and even qualms now that it's not been nominated for an Oscar. Yeah. So I really went into this with high expectation. And I think once you have that sort of expectancy, then I think anything that comes before after that just doesn't fulfill it, I guess.

3:59KT: Well, it's a dangerous thing to go within expectations, but there's a reason why in most cases, you would have expectations.

4:08Oti: I know. So there is some time so just the buzz that they this got, I really did expect something completely different from what I received. I didn't even watch a trailer for this. I knew zero about it. I just saw a post of a picture of Adam Sandler looking like a, you know, like a dodgy gems merchant. And I was like, oh, maybe it'll be like something like Blood Diamond, per se.

4:31KT: A gems merchant. Oti, you're such a wise sage. I don't think anyone has used the term gems merchant in 2020.

4:46Oti: But, yeah, I just expected something different than what I got.

4:51KT: Interesting.

4:52Oti: Because even that doesn't reveal how you actually feel about I think that will come later into the movie.

4:58KT: Did you wanna note to, I guess, Adam Sandler's roles in general and what were you expecting? Because I feel like the last Adam Sandler movie we watched was Murder Mystery Yes. Which is obviously a far cry.

5:12Oti: Yeah. You know, we're completely different because I grew up loving Adam Sandler. You know? I watched all of his movies. I loved freaking Mr. Deeds

5:21Oti: with his black foot because I have, like, a this elbow bump thing that Adam Sandler can have a black foot, but Robert Downey Junior can't play a black man? He did have a

5:33Oti: he couldn't feel pain on his foot. So it's the same thing with my elbow. You can hit it all you want, and it's just there.

5:42KT: I do. And the sploosh is a free grattles.

5:45Oti: But, yeah, I loved him. I really loved him growing up, and I don't mind what he's doing now. Like, it's always been him. So watching him in a sort of serious kind of role, I was like, I was titillated. I was I was I was I kept my titties to myself. But I think he did well with what he had and it was good seeing him doing something different.

6:12KT: It's funny you say that because give me some time to pull my glasses up friends and lovers. I'm very learned and by that, I mean, I read the IMDb trivia and apparently, the Safdie brothers had actually offered this to Adam Sandler way back, I think around 2009, which is when they first wrote the draft for this film. And he rejected it flat out. And then it kept going round and round and round because they wanted an actual Jewish actor to play it. And then eventually,

6:44KT: it was going to be Jonah Hill and then it came back to Adam Sandler. So the fact that Adam the fact that Adam Sandler rejected this and now he's doing it just tells me that, okay, he just wants to do it now. Doesn't necessarily mean that he was passionate or even thought it was good. Adam Sandler, you're more than welcome on the For Your Reference podcast if you wanna clear it up. Until then, I will continue to theorize why.

7:08Oti: Oh, bloody hell. Imagine Jonah Hill as that character. Fucking hell. I'd turn it off.

7:16KT: It but it doesn't it also doesn't bode well because you wonder why he didn't accept it in the first place. And I'm sure we will continue to see, you know, the reasons as to why Sacha Baron Cohen as well was considered at some time and also someone called Harvey Keitel. Oh. Yeah. But it's just interesting unless it was like scheduling conflicts, but really there was that movie with Taylor Lautner. Was it Magnificent six or some shit? So there really isn't scheduling conflicts if that's what the fuck you were doing at that fucking time. Speaking of fuck,

7:52KT: apparently this film has the most fucks in a film ever, which is weird. I didn't notice that. Right? I didn't notice it either. Maybe because they weren't gratuitous fucks. They were painful fucks. There you go. That is the motto on the movie poster. If For Your Reference can get our film credit, you know where they put the little quotes there, painful fucks is what it was said four zero eight times.

8:20Oti: I do not. I didn't notice that either. Must have missed it in all the chaotic yelling.

8:25KT: Chaotic yelling as well. Yes. So painful fucks and chaotic yelling. We get two quotes on the movie first one. We'll start our own little production company just so we could put our own quotes on But is there anything else you wanted to say about first impressions?

8:25Oti: No.

8:25KT: Nothing else about Lakeith Stanfield?

8:25Oti: I like that he's getting roles. I still don't I think that's all I can say about him. I still don't get him as an actor.

8:46KT: Neither do I. I think But I I like seeing him, but I don't I don't really get him. Like, who is he? I see him in interviews and he's very enigmatic. He's very similar to his character in Atlanta. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with like actors playing roles that are similar to themselves, but it's just I don't really get a jive for him, I guess. Anyway, my turn? My turn? Your turn.

9:13KT: My first impressions will encapture my foundational qualms that I isn't life a tantalizing journey? We can learn so much about ourselves through the consumption of film. What I am starting to realize is there are some films that are just not for KT. And this was one of them. I've started to realize that I really gravitate towards wholly personal deeply immersive narratives. This film was immersive but in all of the ways that I just didn't care for. I I definitely wanna go into more detail about the cinematography,

9:55KT: the choices of the shots and just generally overall how the film was. But, you know, again, I get people hot under the collar, not sexually like Wendell from P and P. Just tend to have hot takes and, you know, people tend to have qualms with my opinion. So I just wanted to lay out before we start our actual discussion, I feel like this film wasn't for me, which is okay. Yeah, it is. However, within our frame of reference, that can indicate or stagnate our possible enjoyment

10:32KT: of the film. So I'm going to say some shit about this film, shit how I feel about the film, but just know that I didn't like it. I didn't care for it. Yep. And, you know, if you wanna reduce that to a sound bite, that's fine. But obviously, we're going to, you know, unpack it, take it apart and actually have a discussion in detail about it. Yep. Agreed. It it just wasn't my vibe, man. I think I just need to check out more of the Safdie brothers because

11:04KT: well, I I guess if this is their flavoring, then maybe maybe I'll pass it to the left, you know, but anyway, let's go. Let's get into it. Let's talk about the directing as a whole. I don't think we've really stumbled across the Safdie brothers and we're not really familiar with their work at all. So I think it might be nice just to, first of all, lay accolades. Good for you guys, you know, you directed a film. However we care about it is its own thing.

11:35KT: But just to lay out how we felt about the directing, looking at their credits, they did direct the video for Jay-Z, Marcy Me. Mhmm. And, you know, they've got quite a filmography that they've got. They seem to be a tag team, you know, that do stuff together, which is pretty cool. Yeah.

11:53Oti: Seems seems cool. I think watching this, I I got, like, a vibe of Aaron Sorkin. If if my take on them is, especially on this movie, is Aaron Sorkin and the guy who directed Taken 2, I think was Olivier Megaton or some shit like that had a baby, that's them.

12:17KT: Actually, now that you mention it, Dr. Seuss did have an uncredited book. Aaron Sorkin has an acid trip. Think I think that's what this film was.

12:30Oti: I I found myself having to pay, like, a 110% concentration in this just because I didn't there was so much happening. It was constant movement. Constant especially in the first, like, thirty, forty minutes, the camera was moving all over. With them moving, it was like, fucking hell, mate. Just give me a fucking stable shot so I can just relax my eyes for a bit. Yeah. Add that to the fucking constant yelling and chaotic background noise. Oh.

13:09Oti: And I think this this score didn't even do it that well. There was this, like, eighties sort of vibe in it, retro vibe to it. Mhmm. I was just I found myself fully wanting to pay attention to this movie, but it made me it made me do that unintentionally. And I was at the edge of my seat, so I can't just miss anything because I really wanted to give this movie a go. And and by the time we finished, I felt sort of I wouldn't say delighted or anything, but I felt satisfied.

13:46KT: Like Okay. We'll we'll come to the end of the movie. Yeah. I I understand what you're saying. And, yeah, that first thirty, forty minutes, it didn't feel like there was a definitive scene structure. It was like a whole sequence of scene that was going on. You know, a lot of the commentary around this film is that it's an anxiety inducing and it's a buildup of stress and it's just completely manic. And I completely agree with that. A 100%. However, there was no finesse to it.

14:22KT: And if I wanted to be shouted at for two hours, I would've went back home to my parents. Like, I didn't need to be shouted at for two hours. And how then is that filmmaking? I don't understand it and I don't care for it. Is is is acting yelling? Where are the layers to that? He didn't even have like different decibels of yelling. It was like zero to a 100 every time. Everyone was fucking yelling at each other. There was never a point where the camera was just steady

14:56KT: and then they would just cut to like a scene where there was no shouting but there was there there was there were no gems, if you'll pardon the pun, that we could excavate. Mhmm. There were no gems within the quiet moments in order for us to push the narrative along. And let's just say, what was the point of the story?

15:21Oti: I think the point of the story was more, I think this this is just for my take, at least, is that we follow the journey of this Howard guy. And and and he is super flawed as a character, and that just that just goes beyond saying it. I think a movie, you actually you want to find a movie where you can root for someone. And I think in this, I was just waiting for that moment that would be his downfall because there was no way anyone leaves this like this and

15:55Oti: walks out of this fully intact.

15:58KT: Well, definitely check out our Spartacus episode. And if you haven't watched Spartacus, pause this fucking movie, pause this fucking episode, go and watch Spartacus and then come back because this is if Ashur got what he wanted every single time and no one put Ashur from Spartacus in check And like you said, and like we've said in many of our episodes, there is nothing wrong with having a fragmented questionable morality

16:28KT: sort of protagonist. There's actually nothing wrong with that. I prefer it because it means the character development becomes much more interesting and it's a more tantalizing story that we have along the way. But that's not what we got here.

16:43KT: I don't really like we can talk about Howard as a character, which was based on the Safdie's brother. Apparently, his dad was a runner for a fella named Howard, so there were influences there. The guy that plays Yassi is actual a real life jeweler, and he was in, like, a very iconic popular feud with Tekashi 6ix9ine about some jewelry as well that he lent. So we can come back to that, but I just wanna focus on, you know, from a from a narrative point of view, what were we working towards? There were pieces there.

17:21KT: There were frazzled pieces everywhere but what were we working towards? So, you know, we start off in I think it was 2010 in Ethiopia in the mines where they had the black opal. Can I just say, I got very excited because in the first maybe five minutes of the film, ten minutes of the film, I thought we were going to get a really thrilling horror esque sort of film, very similar to like the mythology of the Monkey Paw Oti, which I I think I paneled across your way? I

17:59KT: thought we're going to have a really interesting cautionary tale about greed with that opal. You know what I mean? Like, people would do anything that they could to get that opal Yeah. At the expense of their family, their own self worth, things they thought they would never do to try and get to that opal. To some extent, you do see that in the film, but then it gets drowned out by the incessant yelling Mhmm. And the painful fucking.

18:27Oti: Right?

18:30KT: But so we have that. Right? And then you have Howard's character that sourced it. I really didn't care for the zooming in sort of shots because when when you have the the miners, when they find the black opal, they zoom into it and then it zooms out into Adam Sandler's colon.

18:51Oti: Yep.

18:53KT: Who cares? What is that? Like, I I I don't understand what like, was this supposed to be some symbolism to that? Feel free to tweet us or, you know, let's further discuss that. But what was the point of that?

19:14Oti: No. It was just because they do that at the end of the film as well. It was just more for letting us know that he had you know, it's he has a history of colon cancer, whatever the fuck you wanna call it, And he was getting checked out, so we're panning into his life from there.

19:14KT: Okay. Cool. So he has colon cancer. What does that have to do with this

19:14Oti: He doesn't have it, but his father died from it. Okay. And we find out that he keeps on going get checked just to mitigate it and to get it early because he wants to be successful. He wants to win it big.

19:40KT: He wants to risk it all and win it big. Okay. Small wins won't cut it for Howard. Okay. So that's okay. So we'll we'll leave that to the side for the second. So you have the whole Black Opal sort of story arc. Right? And then we're introduced to Kevin Garnett. Spoiler spoilers spoilers by the way, guys. We're introduced to Kevin Garnett and he becomes enamored by this Black Opal.

20:03KT: Right? And then I thought the movie was going to follow that. That was going to be the overarching. He takes it and then we follow him up and that sort of thing. So that has its own, you know, that has its own time in the film. Cool. And then you also have Howard's character, which he kind of is the driving force in this film, but there's just so many frayed parts in this film. It's hard to exactly pinpoint what we were working towards. I guess you could say perhaps that we were working towards his

20:35KT: ultimate comeuppance, know, his his time to be accountable for everything that he did. But I felt like it was a very frenzied navigation to get to that point and there were a lot of side stories that didn't need to be told in order for us to understand that. We were maybe like an hour and a half in and they were still giving us examples that he was a terrible person and he was never going to give the people the money. Like, I feel like in a film,

21:07KT: what you first need to do is establish the character and also inform the audience, which is us, why we should or why we shouldn't care about this character. And I feel like we didn't need to know that for an hour and a half. We kind of got that in the first half an hour stress anxiety inducing sort of sequence that we had. We already understood that this guy was garbage. Yeah. So we didn't really need more examples. Maybe if it was done in a more interesting way,

21:37KT: but the whole shakiness, the whole shoutiness of it, I really feel like didn't it didn't add to it. It just continued to be there. Right? And if you disagree with me, Oti, feel free to jump out and say it. But I just I guess I just didn't get it. And, you know, there were quite a few moments in the film where he would do shit and I'm like, I don't like, I I can't like, I don't even understand why he would do it. I guess the only the only thing that I can somehow

22:09KT: connect is he's a, like, fully immersed gambler. Like, he gambles everything. So I guess someone that is that deep into gambling would risk as much as he has risked. Yeah. Because it it for for a normal person and I don't even know if he even took drugs. Like, it's weird to have so much so much of this buildup without drugs.

22:36Oti: Not really. Gambling is a big issue. Even in Kenya, people gamble their houses on placing bets on us and all to win. Just just goes to show you the addictive nature of this. And once you taste that win or once you're chasing that win, it's just really, really, really horrendous as we just watched with Howard. And I think with him, he was always just the small wins wasn't enough. And at the start, we saw him placing a bet. He just got in money, $20. He pawned off or he pawned off

23:14Oti: Kevin Garnett's ring. Yep. Gives that $20 and went straight to put a bet on it. Yeah. The bet

23:14KT: But the money doesn't stay in his hand for too long.

23:14Oti: It does not stay in his hands. What shocked me was even after he got there a 170 well, a $155 from Kevin Garnett at the end, he straight up went to pawn it as well. To not pawn it. To to gamble it away as well. Saw Arno and the guys in the actual shop.

23:43Oti: I think I think this movie, the whole time I was really frustrated and angry. It's been ages since I watched a movie and I was in a constant state of anger. Yeah. I was angry towards Howard. I was infuriated. I just couldn't understand. I couldn't get such a character or even buy into his whole sort of storyline or even feel sympathy for him. Yeah. And when he was crying to to the girlfriend that I've lost everything. I don't have anyone anymore. I was like, bitch, please. We've watched two hours of you already.

24:17KT: Yeah. You're talking about near the end, right, where he's got, like, the tissues up his nostrils and stuff. Like And classic one zero one emotional manipulation because while he was crying and she was buying into it and feeling sorry for him, he's like, you shouldn't have been mean to me. And that's how you know that he's actually not. Even though we had known before she came in the room that he was fine and dandy.

24:45KT: Right? And then he put on the whole show when she got there.

24:45Oti: No. He wasn't fine and dandy. He was going through something because he was just getting up and throwing to a is point.

24:45KT: He knows how to emotionally manipulate people.

24:57Oti: Well, I I didn't think he was I didn't think he was playing up. I think he was just sincerely he's manipulative by nature, but I don't think he was playing the crying. I think he was genuine in terms of him just completely feeling alone and secluded because he's pretty much lost everything. He's he he has a lot of people chasing him from all angles looking for his for their money. But he's a he's a fucking rat. He's a fucking rat, but he's he's he's chasing out big wins so he can pay everyone and

25:26Oti: feel like, you know, he's on the bank.

25:29Oti: But I don't everyone would be happy with him, and he'd be he'll be able to get out of all his money problems in one go.

25:29KT: But I don't think anywhere along the way he had any intention of paying anyone back.

25:29Oti: No. I think he would pay it. I think he would pay it.

25:29KT: There were so many examples in the film where he did have the money, and then he went and bet it again.

25:29Oti: Yes. So he can get more money to just get that big win. It's it's it's it's it's the chase that's exciting to him. It's it's the risk

25:57Oti: of of of trying to just get that big win that made me made him just want to put it all in gambling.

26:06KT: But I don't think that he is actually scared and I don't think he actually cares because even he I feel like he's in the mentality and we've seen it many times in the film where he is, you know, about to be beaten to death or he's naked in the trunk of his own car and he still feels like he's gonna find his way out of it. I don't think he genuinely feels that sense of impending danger because he's a he's a weasley little rat and he always finds a way out.

26:37KT: Even when they had him over the window near the end of the film and he was supposed to call the girlfriend, he didn't because the possibility of that triumphant win was way too much. Like you said, it was too much of a high for him not to explore that. And you see, they didn't even end up killing him at that particular point. So he did manage to weasel out of that death as well. Yeah. I think and like you said, that high is way too high for him to care about the consequences

27:07KT: of whether he dies or not.

27:12Oti: No. I think it's more that once he once he he he he he gets vindicated that everything he's done up to this point has been worth it, then he'll feel that everyone he's wronged down the line will just follow suit because he'd have enough to pay them off.

27:28KT: But I feel like you're applying morality that I don't believe was exemplified in this film. I don't feel he has that morality. And the reason why I think he doesn't have that, to sell your whole life away, you need to abandon the, you know, out of the box sort of morality that you get. How do you think he can scheme and, you know, scam all of these people? He really doesn't fucking care. The fact that you said he was riding a high, stay with that because that high is all that fucking matters.

28:02Oti: Yeah.

28:03KT: He doesn't care about anything else.

28:07Oti: I don't know about that. Like, the multifaceted to this, it's it's it's not as as as black and white as you'd want to portray it.

28:22KT: I'm not portraying it. I'm just saying based on the film, every decision he made was in the interest of riding that high. And the problem why addiction is such a problem is because it will never be enough. And what you're saying is he will get to a point where everything is justified. But what I'm saying is he is so

28:46KT: addicted to something that he will never be able to reach the top of that he will never come to that point where he feels sorry for all of the people that he's hurt because he continues to climb the mountain of gambling, of addiction that you can never there's no peak to it, babe.

29:02Oti: I guess not. I guess in my mind was he was just looking for that $1,000,000 that he he he had set in his head. And then what?

29:11KT: You see what I mean? Like, he'll get if if he gets that 1,000,000, he's gonna ride another high. He'll go find like a pinko bull in Tonga. You know what I mean? Like, it's and obviously, I I'm not a professional. But from what I understand with addiction, it's never enough. And that's why it becomes such a detriment. And that's why it becomes such a problem. He had little regard for anyone and, you know, as much as he could survive in the moment, he didn't really care for what happened after,

29:40KT: you know. The fact that he had that the the gem, the black opal and he had he let Kevin Garnett have it so he could really become obsessed with it and then Kevin and Kevin brought it back. Right? I feel like I'm talking like I'm in the movie, like I'm feeling all frazzled right now. But he brought it back and he got exactly what he wanted. He wanted Kevin to be obsessed with it so that when they go to the auction, he would, you know, pretty much place a bid as high as he could.

30:11KT: Right? And the fact that he took that back and he tried to sell it back to him, you see what I mean? Like, I feel like it's all the mechanics for him to ride that high.

30:11Oti: No. But that wasn't the plan. The plan was to get it into auction

30:24Oti: and get close to a million dollars. But when it was valued at a $100 per carat, that just threw a a spanner in the works for him. You know? So when the bid started at a $100, that's that's pretty much what he had put into this from the get go. He gave a $100 to the Ethiopians. So he was looking for a million dollars in return based on his his his his delusions with the value of this black stone or opal.

30:57Oti: Whether the value was real or not, that's what he wanted. So he wasn't going to settle for anything else. So once he was devalued that he felt like once he got it he got the stone up into the auction room. He would get genuine buyers to try and get it, and he knew Kevin Durant would be there to buy us regardless of the cost. And we saw that failed miserably.

31:20KT: Yeah. I guess, I don't know. Like watching this film just made me wanna watch like a documentary about gambling. I'm being serious. I would have preferred to have spent my time watching and understanding, you know, how the inner workings of someone that is addicted to gambling is because this film was just so and, like, I can't I can't wait to dive in because we try not to read, you know, reviews and stuff. So I can't wait to read the reviews after we record this because yes, it's stress inducing. Yes, it spins you around.

31:55KT: Yes, it's very shouty, but I would like to know in detail why this is a good film, if it's a good film. Because like I said, I do feel like I'm clouded by the films that I like. I do feel like I'm quite open to films, but I was really struggling to find the heart of this movie, if you will. Uncut hearts. My my Toni Braxton cover tour is coming out in 2020. So I just I found it really hard to try and find any point of resonance. You know what I mean?

32:34KT: And then, you know, another example to how, you know, he was he literally had no regard for anyone. You have Lakeith Stanfield's character who he was running a quick grift, you know, through the store with his fake Fake Rolex. Rolexes. Yeah. And then we see early in the movie,

32:52KT: you know, Lakeith's character brings someone into the store. No. I think it is Kevin that he brings into the store to try and get him to buy the watch that he, you know, is selling out of the store. And Howard is like, no, we're not doing it. We're not doing it. And he sold it off as if it was, you know, too high of a risk and that sort of stuff. But we later found out in the film that he's been selling it himself.

33:14Oti: He's not even been selling it. He's been giving it away. He's been giving it to people that he owes money. He's been giving them, like, candy. Hey. Go and take this watch. This is worth $20. Take it to a dealer. You'll get your money back. That's what he's been doing. He's been handing those watches like popsicles. So that just shows you that he he's like, okay. So I'm not gonna sell these fake things in my store. I'm just gonna try and hustle the people that I owe money out of

33:44Oti: potentially paying them. They could go and just pawn those off and get their money back. He doesn't care about much, and he's just trying to, I guess, get that big win. You know? It's it's fucking difficult to try and side with this guy at all. And I think watching this movie, we are as frustrated as the three guys following him, including his, what is it, brother-in-law, Arno. Mhmm. Because they're following they're following him throughout the whole movie, and they can't believe the level of of of of how it's not even incompetence. It's just the

34:27KT: Disregard for other people. He didn't care about other people.

34:32Oti: But they couldn't understand because they were super angry. And I was, like, angry with them throughout the whole thing. Me too. And and in the last scene, that just it was it was me in the couch all sweaty, feeling like I can't move, being trapped in trying to see this movie head.

34:48KT: You don't need to tell people cause we did watch it on our Friday night, and you don't need to intertwine what we were doing at the time.

34:58Oti: I'll just say their complete emotion rollercoaster throughout the whole movie. Mirrored man exactly.

35:09KT: But it's it's interesting that you say that because like the point that I keep kind of trying to make and you keep distracting from it is he had a complete disregard for other people. I guess you could attribute it to his addiction for gambling, but he just didn't care for people. And the fact that he brought in someone so close in his family circles in on it and he was scamming them and doing them wrong, That also points to the fact that he just didn't care.

35:36KT: You know what I mean? He literally shat where he ate and I actually don't get it. I don't get it but again, it might be because he was addicted to gambling. But shit, man. Like, if you're going to scam people, shouldn't you make sure that you're never gonna see them again? He constantly he constantly scammed these people and smiled at them the next day.

36:00Oti: His relationship with his family is kind of weird, isn't it? This he's scared he's scared to tell all he doesn't want to tell the children that they're breaking up. Although it's quite obvious, I think the eldest son kind of realized what was going on when he couldn't even go to his apartment to take a dump because how he thought that the girlfriend was there still or, you know, she hadn't left. And you could see his disappointment when he walked into the apartment and realized that she actually did leave.

36:33KT: Yeah. I I guess Howard was the sort of person where he felt like he could have everything. Yeah. He could have his family. It wasn't really, at least from what I could tell, it wasn't really noted down what he had done or the path that they took to get to where they were. But you can tell that Idina Menzel's character went through quite a lot with him. So in any case, they were heading for divorce, he didn't wanna have it but he also had a mistress as well that she knew about too.

37:06KT: So I guess he just felt like he could have it all, right? He had the opal in his hand and he still wanted the money. And I think it just it just speaks to that on a high sort of level, if you'll pardon the pun.

37:19Oti: Yeah. He's I can't just get past I can't get past how this ended.

37:26KT: Mhmm.

37:28Oti: Because throughout the whole two hours, I was quite infuriated by how things are going. I was wondering why. Yeah. Why why I was wondering why this was got such a high rating. I was wondering what the rave was about. And up until the last twenty minutes of the movie when it started kicking up a gear, then things started moving at a faster pace and, you know, you could see where everything was trying to go with the movie. I think

38:05Oti: it's infuriated because I don't want I don't want something that's on that's getting interesting in the last section of the movie to be like, oh, this is this was the plan all along or whatever. It just make a good moving for the whole show, throughout the whole period rather than just, well, we'll ramp things up on the twenty minutes to try and tie things up in a tight little bow.

38:30KT: Oh, yeah. Like, if films films that are terrible from the first forty minutes or the first hour, you can't win me over in the last twenty minutes.

38:39Oti: But it did pick up. It did have some good moments in there.

38:45KT: No. But I'm just saying my opinion of the film, even if I was pleasantly surprised by how things unfolded in the last twenty minutes, it doesn't take away from, you know, the disappointments that I had in the first half of the film. And it's interesting because you agree with me that you didn't really like this, but I feel like you're also trying to balance this part.

39:06Oti: No. No. No. Not that I didn't really like. I'm on a I'm on a different mind because I I was so fully focused to understand and to get where this was going.

39:06KT: So was I.

39:06Oti: And by the time it ended, I felt satisfied. Like, I wasn't as angry as I was before because, like I told you, everything was being mirrored through the the guys that were being locked in the door. And when they're all waiting for that game and you could see Garnett shooting the points and then him making a three way bet and

39:36Oti: having the first two tied down, and it was just a matter of Celtics winning the game. I was like, okay. Of course, Celtic is gonna win it. And then when Celtic won, and he realized that, oh my god. A fucking $11,000,000 1,200,000.

39:52KT: But does that make everything better? And that's quite interesting because I felt like those men in that booth, he was like a petulant child that needed a whooping, Howard. Because what happened was he had already burnt all of the bridges. Even Arno couldn't save him. No. Right? And the fact that they took him out from the window, he was already he was dead to them, but they they needed to focus on getting the money back. Right? So they didn't deal with him in that moment when he didn't call his girlfriend,

40:21KT: they just tried to leave and then they got stuck in that particular area. Right? So you have them stuck in this booth being forced to watch this child continue to be childish and show off as if everything that he did to get to this point was justified. And that continued to boil over as you could see in that booth. It didn't fucking matter that he won that million dollars because everything that he had done wasn't in the interest of paying them back.

40:54KT: Yeah. And I can almost guarantee you if he was to get that $1,000,000, spoiler because he got shot, I don't think he would've. He would've, like, found ways to bet that again. And if you were to say no, then you learned nothing from this film. He continued he continued to risk his own life to make bigger, harder, more satisfying bets. That's why as soon as they got out of the booth, they fucking shot him.

41:20Oti: And I guess and I guess that's down to gambling as a vice. And when is enough enough? And when do you feel like you've gotten all of it? And

41:20KT: But that's what I'm telling you. There's never going to be an end.

41:20Oti: And maybe that's maybe that's the case. Maybe I'm just too naive trying to believe that's that's that's all he wanted to achieve. I guess maybe it's just a bigger problem. It's a bigger problem that he couldn't control really himself with money, and he there was never going to be enough. So,

41:56Oti: yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe you're right. But the one thing that really got me in that last scene was how satisfied I felt. Once he had won and he felt vindicated, like everything he'd done throughout the whole movie was justified. And the minute he opened the door, he just got a bullet straight in the head. I've never felt so happy or not even happy. I was like, oh, sir. This is this is so calming. Bad Boys reference. This was so calming. Everything that had happened,

42:31Oti: I felt like, oh, bloody hell. All my anger alleviated in that one moment, in that one scene. Without a wad, him being happy, smug, having won everything that he wanted to. And then bam. End. And I was like, yeah. This is how it should have ended. No words. No nothing. No way to try and weasel his way out. Just that's what he deserved, and that's what he got.

43:03KT: Yes. He got shot. Yes. He deserved to get shot. It was his moment of comeuppance, but I guess I would have preferred a bit more of a build up to that. And then you mentioned that there was two hours of that build up, but I mean in that particular scene, he was riding high, there was euphoria all within his sphere and then he just gets shot. I would have preferred, I don't know, I guess just some sort of some sort of dialogue

43:33KT: in the fact that he deserved it. It's obvious and it's quite clear that he deserved it, but I think from a storytelling point of view, I would have appreciated that. The best example that I can give you about how I felt about the ending was,

43:47KT: like, if Oti and I are having a fight and he really fucking pisses me off and I've been sitting there mentally making a list of all of the shit that I'm going to say, like, from two years ago, you sneezed on me and all of this fucking bullshit, like, I'm getting angry. It's building up. And then before I can even open my mouth to tell you why you have so wronged me, you say sorry straight away.

44:11KT: So it's like, what? I'm just supposed to forgive you? What do I do with all of this built up anger?

44:11Oti: Don't build it up in the first place.

44:11KT: Well, I'll tell you. I go out I actually go out and punch a stranger in the street, but that's a story for another day. But you know what I mean? Like, you have garnered all of this anger, all of this anxiety, and where do we get to release it? We don't. He just gets shot. That's it. The end.

44:11Oti: But that was my release.

44:38Oti: That gunshot, that moment, that was my release.

44:40KT: Yeah. But that should that's just because with one touch, you come. You know? Like because KT knows the way to Oti's balls.

44:53Oti: Is this you all over again?

44:55KT: It's you all over me.

44:58Oti: But it was just I don't know. Like and the fact that girlfriend gets to keep the money, I'm happy with that.

45:07KT: I'm surprised that she didn't get shot, though.

45:07Oti: Well, I'm I'm more surprised towards the niceness of the guy that brought him the brought her the money.

45:07KT: Yeah. I thought he was in on it. That's why I'm not understanding.

45:19Oti: Yeah. I guess you can just find genuine people who you know, that pussy power is great, mate. The thought that you're gonna get laid, you could do anything. I'm carrying 1,200,000 in bags thinking that, oh, yeah.

45:31KT: No. It's it's called it's called hot power because from what we could see, she didn't even surrender the pussy.

45:36Oti: That's what I'm telling you. The power that you're gonna think you're gonna get that surpasses everything else. You can quote Oti anytime on that.

45:46KT: Rather not. So I guess Julia and also Demany, Lakeith's character, I think they benefited the most out of this film. Yeah.

45:58Oti: Yeah. Because Demany gets his cut off

45:58KT: It's Demany, not Dee money.

45:58Oti: Because Demany gets his cut gets his cut of the money from Garnett straight out without even trying to deal with Howard because that's just a labored relationship. And Julia gets to keep all the winnings. I think it's sort of poetic justice to this all, you know,

46:28KT: having to deal with But then what happens to Dinah, Idina Menzel's character? She'd already moved on. I didn't guess. Would've nice for her to get some money though.

46:39Oti: She looked well off anyway. So not sure she'd be missing

46:42KT: But do you see why it's because you don't care enough about the characters for her to want a better life, surely? I think Idina Menzel did very well in her role that she was afforded. I just don't feel like the role was much really. She was just the wife. Yeah. Yeah. I don't really feel like actually, was definitely no character development in this film. And I think that was my problem with this.

47:10Oti: Yeah. Because we already it wasn't it wasn't about character development. It was about

47:19KT: What?

47:22Oti: It was about showing a guy's life when he thinks that he's gonna win it all or solve his all his problems in one stroke and chasing that high. So we really don't really need character development As if at the end of it, would be like, oh, man. All this gambling I've done. Self reflection is key. I wanna be a better man. That would not be this movie, would it?

47:52KT: No. But it could also be more nuanced than that. Oti's movie, open scene. I'm a drug addict. End scene. I'm cured.

48:06Oti: Which is most movies, mate?

48:09KT: I and again, like, I I did get very shouty, but so did this film. But I guess I just need a story. I also wanted to add some positives to this as well. I just wanna point out that Keith Williams Richards that plays Phil looks like a thick t h I c c Willem Dafoe daddy. It was nice to see a really muscley Willem Dafoe bash I thought that was quite fun to have, and he did have the moment of glory at the end of this film as well. Oh, yeah.

48:42Oti: I guess I guess he gets I don't know. Maybe he doesn't get caught, gets to run away with all the jewelry anyway.

48:51KT: Maybe that covers part of his debt. But I think I think the key thing about this film is there will always be Phils. There will always be Howards. Right? There will always be these sorts of people in real life or even, characters in movies, right? There will always be these sorts of people. I guess what I was struggling to at least find enjoyment in, it felt like we were just following them around without any sort of resolution. It made me rethink maybe I did like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Because

49:26KT: it seemed to have more of a running narrative than what this film had. Not to say that you need to have an overarching narrative, but I think it's one of those foundational, splooshies for me that just gets me off because just following them around just felt like real life. And movies are supposed to be structured in a way that you have all sorts of experiences, you know, the highs, the lows, shouting us if you want, but you have a balance.

49:56KT: Right? It's all supposed to come together into a package. It's not we're just watching for the sake of watching and something might or something might not happen. And I think on a real level, that's what frustrated me about this film.

50:10Oti: Yeah. I hear you. I hear you. I hear you. Although my my qualms with this movie aren't as as as as high as yours. Like, yes, I wasn't fully satisfied with what I expected. It didn't it didn't I didn't think it was that good. I didn't think it deserves an Oscar. Fucking hell no. Yeah. There were far better movies in 2019. Parasite, hello. Hey. But, yeah, definitely not Oscar worthy, but it was good seeing Adam Sandler stretch his acting muscles a bit,

50:48KT: stretching his acting muscles a bit. Stretching? He was just shouting. Well, it was There was no nuance to his character. You know? Like, compare him to Colin Firth. Right. That's his character. Like,

50:59Oti: he's that eccentric, energetic kind of person who's just this is something that we've never seen him do before. Yeah. And I think he did it sort of well because we ended up hating him, and I think that was the point of it or not liking him. But I think the whole thing we can take out of this is gambling is bad. Okay?

51:24KT: Don't do the gambling guys. I don't know. I think like I feel like default we would've we wouldn't have liked his character anyway. If it wasn't Adam Sandler in this role, I'm not sure if it would've gotten as many butts in seats to be perfectly honest, which is sad, but, you know, it's what happens. I don't what would you call this genre? Is this a thriller? No. It's not psychological. It's just it's a shouty. It's a shouty, Safdie thriller.

51:58Oti: Yeah. The Safdies need to have created their own genre in this. Yeah.

52:03KT: But I I think I think that is quite interesting because just because it's not my movie, just because it's not my sort of thing, I feel like I still could have enjoyed it, but I was hampered by that because of everything that we said in this film.

52:20Oti: I think the last twenty minutes kind of calmed me a bit from completely going ravage and ape shit on it.

52:24KT: Yeah. But that's also why men buy flowers and they think that's going to fix everything. You know what I mean? Like, there's a reason why, friends and lovers. There's a reason why. I don't know. I I guess this film just wasn't for me, but, you know, if you've listened to For Your Reference, you know that we watch a lot of shit. And we give a lot of graces to a lot of things. We do. So I think it I think that's just what it boils down to. I just need a proper story. Yeah.

52:56KT: Because it really wasn't in here at all. But, you know, rewind that if you want us to hear the same thing, there's no point saying the same thing even though this film like to shout it over and over again. So thank you so much for tuning in at another week in the For Your Reference household, we have lots of happy splooshy. If you wanna hear me in my optimum splooshes, 30 Rock is a nice episode. Actually, I like a lot of the shit we cover. So pretty much go check out everything else.

53:28KT: Are you ready for the next segment? Oh, yeah. Okay. So while everyone's diving and looking for their own opals, let's finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference, Oti.

53:39Oti: Alright. I think I'll go back to thousand and fifteen with Mississippi Grind. Okay. It has a similar theme like this, I think. Ryan Reynolds can be the gem because he's taking around a town because the guy believes he's his lucky charm. Okay. So watch that. It's pretty good narrative. I think you'd get a lot out of it from what we just watched with Uncut Gems. And yeah.

54:08KT: Oh, no Blood Diamond? Too raw for this. Too too good for this. Too good and too raw for this. I will reference just off the back of having day in the life sort of films. I won't reference Once Upon a Time in Hollywood because it was vetoed in the For Your Reference Household in 2019. I will reference another Quentin Tarantino day in the life film, Pulp Fiction. Woo hoo. Because even though it didn't really have a story and we were just following characters around, my god, was it a great film. And

54:44KT: that is it for this week, friends and lovers. On Twitter and Instagram, you can find us at @ForYourRefPod. You can write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. And we would love if you could leave us an Apple rating and review. Yeah. If we are an uncut gem of the good kind or not of the good kind, that is up to you guys. And we also have a Patreon. Yeah. See you next week, guys. See you. Bye.