Trick ‘r Treat – A friend in Kreeg is a friend indeed

Full transcript of Trick ‘r Treat – A friend in Kreeg is a friend indeed.

0:00KT: Greetings. We are starting off with Anguessme, and I've got the guest this week, Oti. Mhmm. Who has the best substory in this film? Three, two,

0:14KT: one.

0:14Oti: Mister Kreeg. Oh.

0:18KT: Or Kreega if you're nasty. Uh-huh. Let's squeeze our nipples and get on with the show. Spooky Halloween, friends and lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your KT

0:18Oti: And Oti.

0:18KT: And remove Smashing Pumpkins from your playlist. And don't forget to help me with the eyes.

1:05Oti: Make them scary this time. Yikes.

1:08KT: Because this week we are diving into a now cult classic the 2007 Trick 'r Treat film today let's start off with the stats which is what we do around her director writer of Michael Dougherty Oti. Mhmm. Michael Dougherty also went on to do the most recent 2019 Godzilla and he also directed and wrote Krampus. I love a good Krampus. It actually makes sense doesn't it? You know comparing these two movies together we have stars of Anna Paquin, Brian Cox, Succession Daddy all the way and Dylan Baker what

1:50KT: a sleeper hit I think is also what the kids like to say around here Apparently, this film, aside from it being screened at festivals and also the San Diego Comic Con in 2009, it was pretty much a direct to DVD release. Mhmm. And it didn't make it into Australia until 2018.

2:11KT: We we don't really my only reference is 30 Rock and how they talk about scripts being passed around so much. At some point, you just need to make it, which I'm assuming is what happened to Bad Boys with Michael Bay because he's notoriously known for calling Bad Boys script a piece of shit but yeah it seemed like this movie got passed around a bit but it is beloved by those that love it Mhmm. There were talks about of it being a sequel, but it is as of today a standalone movie.

2:43Oti: As it should remain.

2:45KT: Yikes. Are you giving us are you giving us a tasteless morsel, Oti?

2:52Oti: Just saying. Nowhere do I see this deserving a sequel at all.

2:52KT: Yeah. But you also didn't like Lebowski, which is regarded as a cult classic as well.

2:52Oti: Yeah. Maybe it's it's a thing with your lemmings.

2:52KT: Yikes.

3:08KT: Maybe you're the fucking plebe. Who knows? I guess to prove your plebisms, let's get into first impressions, Oti.

3:16Oti: So I remember when this came out.

3:19KT: Oh, you do? I do. And you've deliberately ignored it.

3:24Oti: Just because Anna Paquin was in it. Alright.

3:28KT: Wait. Is that a plus or a minus?

3:28Oti: A plus.

3:28KT: Okay. Because you said you knew about it, but you still about it because Anna Paquin was in it. Yeah. But you're known for watching stuff just to watch it, so it's weird that you did like someone in the movie and you still didn't watch it.

3:28Oti: Not that I didn't watch it. I stopped watching it the first time.

3:28KT: That is news to me. How dare you?

3:50Oti: Because when you said we're we're going to cover this film, I didn't think that I'd watched it, and it sounded really, really crazy in my mind that I hadn't watched a movie that had Paquin and Brian Cox in it. Mhmm. He had a prosthetic nose, definitely. Right? Yeah. And halfway through, I was like, yeah. I've definitely seen this.

4:12Oti: Like, Red Riding Hood, I was like, yeah. I've seen this.

4:12KT: Okay. And I saw you're just talking about your dreams of Anna Paquin role playing as Red Riding Hood?

4:12Oti: That could be it. Right? That could be it. That that definitely would be a better movie in my head. A blue movie in that fact, but a better one. Yeah. Oh my.

4:30KT: We've talked about Oti and his blue movies. Feel free to peruse our catalog.

4:35Oti: But sort of rewatching or watching parts that I didn't watch in this, I don't know. I just didn't feel a connection to it. A lot of the aspect felt a bit forced or shoehorned. Every other sort of subplot were connected in a way. Mhmm. But it just didn't bring it didn't bring it home for me. At the end of it, I felt like I needed more or I wanted a bit more storyline. Wanted to know more about be it Mister Kreeg.

5:05Oti: Like, there were characters in this that I wanted to know more of and some that I didn't even really want to know about them at all. That was just my qualm with it.

5:12KT: Well, be careful what you wish for because if you want true interconnectedness across multiple stories, you get Cloud Atlas. And is that what you want, Oti? Surely your love for Halle Berry is conditional in that regard.

5:12Oti: It transcends everything.

5:12KT: Do you wanna watch Cloud Atlas?

5:12Oti: I've already watched it.

5:12KT: Do you wanna cover it on the podcast?

5:12Oti: No. I'm alright.

5:12KT: Yeah. Big man, big talk.

5:12Oti: Always.

5:12KT: Well, let's let's let's get into my first impressions. It is very rare to have a standalone, you know, Halloween

5:49KT: themed film. A lot of the time, you will have another iteration, another sequel of an existing long standing remake of a long standing franchise. And we wanted to have an additional Halloween episode or, you know, surrounding that. And we were trying to find I I found a reddit list essentially of standalone horror movies and Trick 'r Treat was right at the top of this particular list I looked it up and you know bless my Succession heart I saw Brian Cox and I was all the way in and

6:20KT: his Cox was all the way in if you're nasty. Boar on the floor always yeah I will win go and listen to our Succession episode because I'm sure that's not the last time we're going to mention Succession in this episode But just generally, I was all in. I think a lot of the time, I am quite open with I know Oti is looking at me. I am quite open with trying something new. However

6:51KT: no. I I am. But the caveat comes, like, maybe five minutes in where I dip in or dip out. Like but I do wanna try and give things a go. Uh-huh. And then it's it's up to the writing. It's up to the direction. It's up to the acting whether I stay latched and avatar tentacle tethered into the world or not. Mhmm. I was fine. I was happy to follow the stories along. Just generally talking about Halloween, it is a very American thing, and Australia's love to bum fuck Americans.

7:27KT: Look at that. If we ever get big enough, I'm sure that's a sound bite. Right? Yeah. So, yeah, to some iteration, maybe there's, like, kind of Halloween, but not really Halloween in Australia. But being a brown Australian, no. We did not go to random strangers' houses asking for candy. And that is a concept that just doesn't it just makes complete it's a farce. It makes no sense to me that people willingly during this particular period or day

8:01KT: just go to people's houses and ask for food. Like like, just from a cultural standpoint, that's shameful. It's like you can't even buy your kids candy. But on a on a more lighter sort of note, I never really got to watch a lot of Halloween movies or horror movies growing up. So, you know, in any sense, even those things don't really scare me. A lot of the things that scare me are, like, psychological thrillers, so they still are grounded in real life. So even when I watch horror movies now,

8:33KT: it's it's just for shits and giggles it's not genuinely scaring me and I'm not looking for horror movies to scare me because man if you've been through some shit in your life sometimes a walking pumpkin is not the scariest thing But I guess I just wanted to put that peppering in there, but I was all in. Like, watching this movie, I was all in. I do agree with you that, you know, the interconnectedness or whether they connected or not, it didn't frustrate me, but I do feel like there was a deliberate,

9:08KT: you know, leading the people out of

9:12Oti: it's Canaan?

9:13KT: Well, it was Moses leading the people out into wilderness, wasn't he? Mhmm. Into the promised land of Canaan. From power? 50 Cent? But, you know, the there are times in movies where we're deliberately left out in the wilderness on the way to go and see fifty Cent with his glasses. Mhmm. Wow. This is this is a Halloween special if you're welcome. Sure is. You know? And and I feel like a lot of the time,

9:44KT: the reason why that happens and it continues to become a crutch is because the writing or the concept isn't as strong as it should be. Mhmm. So I definitely agree to that instance. But also at the same time, I'm not expecting Streep to be crying out of her eyes. Like, I'm not expecting an Oscar nominated winning performance out of this film.

10:06Oti: No. I feel like the supernatural aspect of it just came out of nowhere for me. Here we have kids going into a quarry where a kid has had driven it off the cliff. Yep.

10:21KT: And then Way to bury the lead. That's like the through line of the movie. But anyway

10:27Oti: No. Because after the story was out of nowhere, why are they reenacting it for us? Like Yeah. What was what? It was introduced quite late to the story because it became the most important part of the story. Yeah. Mhmm. I was like

10:27KT: Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, by the way.

10:27Oti: Oh, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, of course. And I just didn't I didn't appreciate how it was done. The exposition felt a bit Exposition y. Yeah.

10:51Oti: If you know what I mean. Like, it didn't feel like I was getting trinkets throughout. It just felt like bam, shebam. Here it is.

10:51KT: Yeah. Because we're in the wilderness with 50 Cent.

10:51Oti: True. Yeah. It just didn't appreciate the lead up to the bigger moments.

11:04KT: I get that. I can see that. Because we have, you know, five separate stories. I think where it starts to muddy is when the script decides that they need to connect. And perhaps it was perfectly orchestrated in the writer's room, but it did come off very, like, it felt very rushed even though there was more than enough time to explore it and make it more cohesive. Mhmm. So I definitely agree in that instance. And that's a very interesting topic that you bring up which will be in an upcoming episode Fallen

11:42KT: Oti our Denzel daddy if you're nasty where we talk about dissolving the realms of reality and moving into the realms of the supernatural and there's a way to do it and I do agree that it wasn't done very well in this particular movie thus leading to us getting confused or at least distracting us from what we should be focusing on. I think the first sort of instance we see in this movie, not necessarily of it being supernatural, but of it being a bit more sinister, non trademark, is with principal Wilkins

12:20KT: and he poisons that kid. Yeah. At first, the way the movie was panning itself out, I thought it was kind of like a cautionary tale of don't be a dick to Halloween because Halloween will dick you down. Yeah. Again, I'm giving you some tasty sound bites in this recording, friends and lovers. So I thought it was because we open up with that couple and, you know, the lady has a fella who is very obsessed with Halloween, but he doesn't wanna fucking help take the decor decorations down. Yeah.

12:54KT: But I thought it was more that she didn't care about Halloween and she blew out the pumpkin. And then you have the kid that's pretty much smashing all of the pumpkins. So I thought it was more of like, not necessarily an allegory, but more like, don't be a dick to Halloween. Right that's what I thought we were edging towards speaking of edging in comes principal Wilkins and we have him poisoning the kid at first I thought it was going to be Herbert the pervert sort of situation Where else?

13:28KT: With some popsicles in the basement. That's a Family Guy reference. But he is a full blown killer. And in my limited knowledge, mostly through really terrible documentaries and Mindhunter, which is a great exemplary show, I thought most of the time when you have serial killers, they have a very specific target. Right? Mhmm. Sometimes it's them,

13:56KT: you know, working up towards an actual kill within their life. But a lot of the time, it's usually the same gender. It's usually the same age. It's usually the same race. But he's killing people left right and center he's even getting his kid in on it yeah right so you know he's giving the kid the candy bar and then I was like oh maybe he's like trying to be Gene Wilder and this is his chocolate factory,

14:20KT: and this kid is dying out of gluttony. Right? So I'm I'm trying to construct what this is and where we're going and what we're choking on. And then we see a sequence of principal Wilkins, you know, burying the kid in the yard. So there's a lot of like, that was definitely a hit over the head to say, hey. This is not a PG film. This is this is going to get worse, and it's going to continue to unravel as this movie goes on.

14:48Oti: You've got a kid asking you being super annoying, and I think that played part in my head, least, him being innocent to all of it and not really understanding what the dad was doing.

15:01KT: Yeah. Because he kept calling out, and you would just hope that he'd he wasn't seeing what the dad was doing. And I think he called Charlie Brown a dick or something. Yeah. And no one, nobody I feel like in in regards to wholesome love in American households, it goes number one, Tom Hanks, and then number two, Charlie Brown. You just don't besmirch Charlie Brown. No. You don't. Yeah. And, you know, in regards to the kid, like you were saying it really seemed

15:34KT: very innocent it seemed like he was he was just a kid really and he wanted to carve some pumpkins. Did you see that coming? Where we have the scene, because we're focusing on this specific story. Right? He keeps talking about wanting to carve the pumpkins, and it feels very innocent aside from the fact that the dad is out burying another kid, which is not amateur behavior, again, from my very limited unqualified knowledge. Like, to get to that point, how many kids are in that fucking backyard? Mhmm. Anyway,

16:09KT: then we get a sequence of them going down to the basement and the kid is being very Jordan Peele in that sketch where he he's like a Make A Wish kid. Yeah. Right? And the kid's like, don't forget to help me with the eyes.

16:28Oti: Yeah. I did not see that coming. It was really good. I think one of the things that at the end of it, we just see the kid sitting in his porch giving out candies, meaning that

16:38KT: Like it's a normal day. Yeah. Interestingly enough, there were talks about whether there would be a sequel for this film, but then Godzilla got in the way. But if if there is a sequel to this, I would be interested to watch it, and I would hope it would have the kid in this. Because you don't go back into a normal life after what he was experiencing.

17:04Oti: Oh, no. No.

17:05KT: There was also I think it was also when the principal was in the backyard. He was talking about well, he was pretty much just making fun of his own kid, and he made a comment to how the mom isn't alive anymore. Yeah. And I think that adds an extra

17:22KT: sinister veneer of what happened to the mom.

17:22Oti: Oh, I didn't take it like that. I just took it as if the mom passed away and the dad lost the plot.

17:22KT: Interesting. Right? It's like what came first, the chicken or the egg? Like, was the kid evil or was it the father that was evil? Like, who made who crazy?

17:22Oti: Oh, definitely the dad. He has issues, man.

17:22KT: And he can't be absorbed? With a tissue.

17:22Oti: Is that a song? Because you say that a lot and I just let it happen.

17:22KT: It is a song.

17:22Oti: Yikes.

17:51Oti: Is it an Alanis Morissette joint?

17:51KT: Mhmm. Okay. But, yeah, very interesting story. And, actually, we've already said spoiler. Wilkins does continue on into another subplot as well. Okay so let's move on to another subplot it is written in the description as a college virgin might have just met the guy for her in my specific notes I wrote Bat Kilmer because the guy in the Batman suit felt very Val Kilmer what

18:25KT: Robert Pattinson will look like as a Batman I guess time will tell we didn't see the nipples on the suit so it definitely wasn't a Clooney suit it felt very Kilmer esque So we I guess we're moving into Laurie and Anna Paquin storyline.

18:42Oti: And

18:43KT: I did not see coming that they were going to be werewolves. Yeah. I thought it was more of a vampire thing. Yeah. They led us to believe it was a vampire thing. Yeah. And I think that's part of and if you're saying that you had qualms, that would be some of my qualms of this movie is they deliberately misdirect you. Just to pull the rug under you. And that's not how a story should be, at least in my opinion. It should stand on its own. Definitely. And

19:10Oti: now we see that he preys on women. They make out and then he starts batting them and kills them because Yep. People who yell out for help in Halloween, people will just assume, hey, you're drunk, which is fucking weird.

19:25KT: No. Because at that moment after she got attacked and she ran out into the streets, when she looked to the side of her, there were people that had blood sort of makeup on them and they were just having beers and laughing.

19:36Oti: But So that was just to reaffirm it. I don't know. Maybe it's it's it's just different people. But if someone, regardless of the situation or the environment, if someone runs up to me and says, fucking help, I will stop and bloody listen. Regardless of whether I think it's it's fake or it's it's Halloween, it wouldn't really matter to me. It'll be someone reaching out, and that's what I'll focus on.

20:01KT: And I think I think it was within the same scene. She continues to reach out, and we see the first couple at the start of the movie. And the guy's like, no. He's she's just drunk. I feel like he didn't really know that. He just didn't wanna help.

20:18Oti: Agreed. Agreed. Which is which speaks to the human nature, the human psyche available. Ridiculous.

20:25KT: And I guess this you know, it adds another dimension to principal Wilkins because I didn't see it coming that he would be the Batman. Not the Adam West, Batman. May he rest in love and peace and power. Yeah. It felt a bit pudge pudgy. Yeah. Yeah? It's like you're just killing any everything and anything, including Lena Headey.

20:50Oti: I was interested to see that he was Wilkins.

20:53KT: Yeah. But it kinda felt like they were they put him there just to tie the movie in more than it was.

21:01Oti: Because it time jumps. Yeah. It's the time jumps that make it they want to use that as a device to sort of It's all together. Exactly. Whereas so we've just killed a a kid who was stealing candy off my porch. Yep. But that wasn't enough to get off get me off at night. I had to go out in the street and kill one woman, then prey on another one the same night. Yeah. It felt a bit too That's a big serial killer appetite. It is.

21:31Oti: It is. Especially if you've left your kid at home who's in on it as well. Yeah. Man, this this kid this kid is absolutely

21:39KT: wild, but you can't really blame him, can you? No. But yeah. So we so we have Wilkins eventually meeting Anna Paquin's character Laurie so this story is kind of set up just to be that she's a virgin at 22 nothing wrong with that but also sexuality is not the act of sex friends and lovers Just a gentle reminder about bean flicking and eggplant sucking.

22:06Oti: Yeah. How far we've come make 40 wonder making a movie of a 40 year old virgin to focusing on a 20 year old 23 year old virgin.

22:12KT: Well, now we know that this isn't the sexual act. Yeah. It's it's the act of killing. Mhmm. Or do you think it was also her becoming a werewolf? Do you think that was her first time being a werewolf? It felt like it. Maybe they're sex werewolves, and you only become a werewolf while you're killing a human, like, mid coitus. But she wasn't having coitus with him? I don't know. I I had a burner. If you reference our Twilight episode,

22:46KT: I did make a claim and I stand by it to this day that unless it's like in a comedic sense, vampires are always seen as being svelte and sexy. Mhmm. So it was interesting. I I think it was many a first night for Laurie's character.

23:02Oti: Oh, for sure. And what did you think about the twist? That they were werewolves and they just started ripping off their skin literally?

23:13KT: I would say to that, sir, that Michael Dougherty and whoever the set designers were are big fans of the music video by Robbie Williams, Rock DJ. Because it was just as sexy and just as flesh throwing as that particular music video. I think that was just you know this was their their point to be I don't know what the term is in horror movies but they kind of mix gore with sex and that was kind of where they chose to do that moment Right?

23:46KT: And I guess it was just to further say we're not werewolves. We're furry in all of the places, and we're proud.

23:54Oti: Yeah. I I I'd call it Gorex.

23:57KT: Oh, look at you. I love that. Put that on a shirt, my love.

24:05Oti: Yeah. I just the Laurie subplot wasn't really that strong for me. I didn't feel like we gave we were given enough of Laurie to care about her as a character. Yep. So her adventure, Sam, it seemed a bit disconnected from everything else. And to bring Wilkins into it, it just felt a bit too forced Yeah. To sort of tie in two subplots together. Uh-huh. When they reveal that the werewolves are felt, oh Okay. Okay. This seems like it's a thing now. But now what? Exactly. Exactly. And that was my qualm. Like, I wanted something

24:46Oti: more other than just peel your skin off. I'm a wolf. Cool. Then what? Yeah. And I think it goes back to what it's usually what Matt and Trey Parker say, how they write South Park. It's the then what? Yeah. You spill out your skin, then what? Yeah. Like, that shouldn't be the punch line. Exactly. Yeah. Absolutely. Exactly. There's always a then what, and it missed a beat for me in that part.

24:46KT: And then? No and then.

25:18KT: Oh, we've plummeted that we've made that reference, but here we are, friends and lovers.

25:18Oti: Well, Dude, Where's My Car? is a classic in my opinion.

25:18KT: I've actually never watched it.

25:26Oti: You weren't pulling references off your ass, mate.

25:30KT: I put reference in our podcast name so I can reference whatever the fuck I want. Come and fight me, motherfuckers.

25:38Oti: Yeah. So I just feel like there's always a cause and effect sort of thing. Yeah. Absolutely. If they're werewolves, then I need to sort of get something off it as well rather than them being a werewolf, being the final exposition of their subplot. Yeah. Because that pretty that was pretty much it because we see later on in the movie all of the storylines connect together and then we have the girls in the car laughing, giggle, gaggling after the night they've had. Yeah. But that doesn't really do anything, does it?

26:00KT: Mhmm. Okay so as we referenced earlier the through line if there is one in this movie centers around the kids on the school bus Mhmm. Throughout the movie we see Macy, Schrader and Sara looking for pumpkins. They I think the first sort of instance we see it in the film is where they interact with principal Wilkins. And I think at that point, Macy mentions it's for UNICEF.

26:36KT: Yep. Of all things. And we later on find out later on the line, especially where they see Rhonda, that they're collecting these pumpkins for a specific purpose, and it's not for UNICEF, obviously. So we head down to a quarry as Tracy Jordan would say in 30 Rock and Macy begins to tell the tale I do I do love how referential and how much Michael Dougherty loves horror, and that is very clear. There are many references

27:10KT: throughout this, and this is just the basic sort of trope of, you know, trying to tell a scary story and people butting in. Yeah. Macy couldn't get her delicious moment. Right? And it was just a fun little tiff. But Macy starts to tell the story about essentially the Ogogi. I think this would happen a lot earlier if these kids were Spartan. Mhmm. They would have been kicked off a mountain, but unfortunately,

27:37KT: the parents don't want them, but they don't know what to do with them, and it gets to a point where their parents have had enough. Yeah. Even to the to the point that they're subcontracting the dirty work and they're not doing it themselves. Mhmm. And that's where spoiler, spoiler, spoilers, spoilers, Kreeg comes into the picture Mhmm. As well. You know? But Macy starts to tell this story, and she says there were eight kids,

28:02KT: and the pumpkins were for the kids. And it was interesting because even at that point, I pretty much said out loud, but that's a noble thing. Like, that's a very nice thing to do. But, obviously, there is something more dickish and prankerish going on to at work here.

28:17Oti: Oh, definitely. When you said that, I was like, you say it's normal, but have you seen her face? She seemed like she was definitely up to something. Yeah. She looked like a mean girl, but I didn't wanna, like, you know, impart that on her. Yeah. I could see that, but I definitely knew there was something at hand there, especially when the kid referred to Rhonda, you know, I was like, yeah, these people are not just here to be friendly.

28:47KT: Yeah. They they were being very mean about her Yeah. Even in front of her. And the fact that it was such an elaborate prank just for her specifically.

28:58Oti: You have to go out of your way to be that. Like, literally, put a lot of effort in Yeah. To do this.

29:07KT: And I I don't know if if you guys American and you wanna speak to the experience, because I see it a lot in American movies where, you know, the really cute hunky jock or, you know, the heartthrob of the school will be really nice to whoever they wanna make fun of. And then that becomes a whole story. Like, these kids are giving the kids in Carrie a run for their money.

29:07Oti: I was just going to say that.

29:07KT: The remake or the original?

29:34Oti: Oh, both.

29:37KT: But, yeah, they were all in on it, even that little kid as well. Like, everyone was in on it. And but, like, what do you gain out of that at some point? See, people talk a lot about technology and how it is the deterioration of the human condition, but cyberbullying exists before cyberbullying.

29:56Oti: Yeah. And to me, it was very satisfying. Mhmm. How locking herself in the elevator Oh, absolutely.

30:05KT: Absolutely. And not giving the keys to those bloody idiots. Yeah. Mhmm. Because even at the same time, Schrader was just playing along with the game as well. Like, let's let's not delude ourselves into thinking he was a good guy. He was a as bad to me. Did you think because, you know, at at some point, we were starting to see the supernatural and and the veil of reality start to dissolve. Did you think that at the first time the kids were playing the prank that they were actually the kids from the bus?

30:34Oti: No. I did not think it was the kids from the bus. I just I thought it was Sam just killing everyone. The little pumpkin thing? Yeah. The pombeleon.

30:42KT: The pumpkin alien. Stop sharing our sex names with the podcast. Interesting. Interesting. I I just full bought it. I full bought in that these were the kids from the bus, and they were out for a vengeance. But in any case, like you said, one of the most delicious moments in this movie was Rhonda taking back her power and pretty much leaving without them and leaving them for dead. Yeah.

31:13Oti: And one of the things that really confused me, at least, made me start seeing Sam in a different light Yeah. Was when they when just Rhonda walked past, I was like, is Rhonda part of this thing or what the hell? Do they lure kids there together to kill them? Or it just started creating a lot of alternative stories in my head of what's going on there.

31:13KT: That's interesting. Do you think Rhonda was in on it?

31:13Oti: No. She wasn't. I think it's just one of the things because we see Sam when you when you're talking about Mister Kreeg's subplot,

31:42Oti: we'll see exactly the kind of character Sam is in all this.

31:42KT: Yeah. I think Rhonda showing up at the end of the movie was really just to solidify that these stories are interconnected even if they're not or even if they're forced.

31:53Oti: Mhmm. It's like how I think this is the second South Park reference. How South Park always have an alien episode. Like, just put some in there. It'll connect to subplot somehow somehow. You know? Yeah. And our equivalent of aliens in the background is

32:13KT: dog ball licking in the background. Oh. So I I guess that is our gift to you. Mhmm. A trick or treat if you're nasty. You know we talked about homages I've verified this on my learned IMDb trivia let me pull one of my glasses up the kid, Wilkins kid is an homage to Chucky There's not a lot of redheads for no reason. Like, when you see a redhead in something, it's usually a purposeful decision.

32:45Oti: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Chucky or Buddi? Yeah.

32:48KT: The 2019 version Mhmm. Which wasn't too bad, but also not the best of the franchise. Mhmm. You know, speaking of homages to Halloween classics as well as just Halloween, you know, as a seasonal sort of period, I I really appreciated that we did have the Stranger Things before Stranger Things, you know, kids getting into some shit, you know, enjoying the festivities no matter how grim they are. Mhmm.

33:17KT: So let's move on to, I guess, the more meatier part of the subplots that we have in this movie with Mister Kreeg and the eight kids on the bus.

33:27Oti: Yep.

33:28KT: So as far as we understand, it wasn't supernatural. It was more that these kids had different needs. Mhmm. And they were I think they went to a school that was outside of their but it also kind of felt like they were trying to say that they were ashamed of the kids and that might also be a reason why they were driven out of town as well which as supernatural as you wanna get that's a real sad human sort of behavior. Right? It really is. And, you know, we also see signs and scenes

34:01KT: with Mister Kreeg where, you know, the parents were in on it. They outsourced, you know, to Mister Kreeg to get rid of the kids. What do you think the plan of execution was? Or do you think there were multiple plans in which he could execute? Because at first, it looked like he was going to poison the kids with candy, and we see reference with that within, you know, the stand down between Sam and Mister Kreeg with the razor inside of the candy bar. But then they also went to a quarry,

34:31KT: and he was facing the the bus was facing in the direction of the quarry. So do you think it was poisoning by candy? Do you think it was Mister Kreeg driving the bus off, not necessarily him being on the bus? What do you think was the plan there?

34:49Oti: I think it was both. Okay. I think the plan was poison them, then drive the bus off the cliff. At least so that they don't suffer. I don't think Mister Kreeg would have just, you know

34:49KT: So that was more on his part, not the parents?

34:49Oti: Yeah. Yeah. I thought I thought that was at least where he was coming from in my opinion. Mhmm. Needless to say, whatever he was still doing was fucking wrong.

35:17KT: I don't know why we're giggling over that. I think we're just getting giddy over Brian Cox. Mhmm. There were moments where I wasn't sure if that was him, but I do feel like there were prosthetics at hand. Yeah. So let's go to that scene. We we have the kids, and they're chained up. Do you think that was a daily thing? Because how would they no. I I feel like it might have been a daily thing because they seemed quite calm. Contant with it. Yeah. Yeah. They seemed like it was just a normal thing for

35:47KT: them. So, you know, he checks if they're chained, then he gives them candy. I don't know if that was a normal sort of event that they would have or if it was, like you said, it was a kindness so they wouldn't have to feel what was about to happen. And then we have a kid that's getting very flustered and getting very nervous and saying, home, home. I gotta go home. Yeah. Right? And he manages to get out, and there's a whole scuffle going on. And they trip Mister Kreeg over and he's pretty much left,

36:20KT: you know, at the whim of these kids. And that particular kid in the seat drives the bus off into the quarry. Mhmm. And that's pretty much the end of the urban legend, if you will. And then I guess if we circle back to Macy, she makes a very poignant comment of no one has seen the bus since or no one cared to look. Mhmm.

36:45KT: And that I don't know how small this town was, but it felt very small town cover up. Yeah. It's like you could have the evidence there, but no one's going to look for it. No one bothered at all. Because they were all in on it. Mhmm. Essentially. So it definitely brings a very interesting, a very sad, a very real sort of struggle into this story, which pretty much becomes the foundation. But again, it get in it gets introduced very later into the film after we're already confused

37:18KT: and there definitely could have been a bit of rehashing but you know like I say you don't have to change your movie it just means I don't 100% love it

37:27Oti: Agreed. And you know what in my mind they would have done? This specific subplot could have been such a great movie

37:35KT: Oh, absolutely.

37:36Oti: By its own standing, you know. Just focus on that plot, focus on that storyline, focus on the parents, focus on Mister Kreeg, and you have a bloody good story in there. Yeah. Yeah. And then to further push the fact that the the kids went to seek revenge on Mister Kreeg Oh. In as much as Mister Kreeg was the cause, he did not he I would be more pissed at my parents, to be honest.

38:03KT: Yeah. Absolutely. Mister Kreeg was just a guy they paid to do that. But no one's to say that, first of all, the kids know the parents weren't on it. And second of all, that they haven't already killed the parents. It's a town secret. So it seems like it's might have already been killed, but we didn't see that. Interestingly enough, according to the IMDb trivia, none of the deaths happen on screen. Yeah. Yeah. And this is rated r. So I think it's more of a,

38:29KT: you know, a nod to the trope of the salaciousness of people getting killed on screen because we see the kids the gluttonous kids head on a plate or on a wood chip so it's not to say that there isn't gore in here yeah but I do think it's a cute cheeky little nod to the salaciousness of killing. Yeah. Great. It's not that we want to see Saw every other day. Oh, first Saw? Yes. Every other Saw? No. Thank you. Mhmm. But, yeah, Mister Kreeg definitely the best the best. Absolutely the best story

39:07KT: that we have here. I do think the other story is kind of diluted, but I do like that we're living in a one off world unless there's gonna be a sequel. I will always look back fondly on this movie. I do think I will revisit it in the future Just just for the fact that it had very interesting stories, the the cohesion on, you know, interweaving them together, not necessarily so. But it was interesting to see the characters move within their specific vessels of reference.

39:40Oti: And I guess one of the other qualms that I had with this specific subplot is they took the suspense away Yeah. With all the time jumps. Yeah. If you're paying attention, you know that Sam survives. We see Sam in the quarry where Rhonda walks past, and this is after the altercation with with Mister Kreeg. So, of course, Sam doesn't nothing happens to him Yeah. Because we know he survives. Yeah. So all this shooting and fighting with Sam

40:11KT: is null and void. What kind of shitty Halloween character would you have if they died after a shotgun?

40:17Oti: Well, he he shot he shot Sam quite a few times.

40:21KT: Well, like, you would hope that they would survive because it's like, what were we scared about the whole time if you can get shot two, three times and you're dead? The whole point is that they're unkillable. And that I guess that's also the most tantalizing sort of moment you have in a movie, particularly in horror, when whoever is trying to vanquish you, you've managed to defeat them. But then you see that they actually

40:49KT: they can't be killed or at least it takes a hell of a lot to kill them. And we see that with Sam there. Do you believe that Sam was also on the bus, or do you think that he's just like a ghost of Halloween past and he's trying to enforce the rules of Halloween? No I think he's just the Halloween sheriff. Right? Yeah. He's a share the sheriff of Halloween Town. Mhmm. Tim Burton don't come for us. Yeah. Because I didn't do the counting for the kids, but I did really appreciate,

41:21KT: you know, the the standoff that Sam and Mister Kreeg had. But it did fizzle because Mister Kreeg put the chocolate bar to pretty much save him, Cyril Figgis style. Mhmm. I feel like that's how Cyril Figgis has managed to survive for so many seasons on Archer with his chocolate bars. And then as soon as Sam took the chocolate bar, he was off his merry way. Yeah. I I got a bit annoyed at that because I'm like, really? Again, like, you're supposed to be the formidable foe. You you're not supposed to die this easily

41:54KT: or at least resolve, you know, the conflict that you've been fighting over. You fucking write all these blood finger paints on the wall, and then you're just gonna walk off because you got a chocolate bar. Right? Mhmm. So it it felt a bit disjointed, but it was a very tasty moment to have the kids on the bus come to see Mister Kreeg, and you knew he wasn't gonna make it out. Oh, yeah. For sure he was not gonna make it out because I felt like, oh, Sam just left him like that. Yeah.

42:22Oti: Weird. Yeah. And then he caught he caught on that he needed to be better. He needed to be in the spirit. He said he's giving out candies. I was like, what a lesson to learn. You can get away with fucking murder just like that. Yeah. Absolutely. Only for the comeuppance to come knocking.

42:40KT: But I definitely agree with what you're saying. This story didn't feel like it existed outside of what was being shown to us. And I definitely feel like those parents have a lot to answer to.

42:56Oti: Oh, so true. So true. It's a valiant effort though of a movie, and it did give us Brian Cox with his subplot, which I think was the best thing about the movie. Yeah. It also brought one of the best lines of the movie that I wanna immortalize on this episode.

43:11KT: It stinks like a dead whore out here. Whore. Because if you've got Brian Cox and he's not mentioning something very vulgar in the whore department, then I don't want it friends and lovers.

43:26Oti: I miss Metella and Cynthia. Plebs, man. Go and watch Plebs, friends and lovers.

43:31KT: I don't know if it'll make the references, but it's definitely most welcome. But I really enjoyed this. I really enjoyed this movie. It's fun. I I'm definitely a Christmas gal at heart, but I do love giggle gaggling or, you know, covering my eyes in suspense over a Halloween film.

43:50Oti: Mhmm.

43:51KT: I feel like it brought all of the best parts of what you would enjoy in long standing franchises, and it just condensed it into one movie. Yeah. Super agreed. Well, let's super agree on in our last segment For Your Reference, Oti.

44:06Oti: I'm gonna reference Halloween. If you wanna see Michael Myers staring at Jamie Lee Curtis throughout the whole movie, This is a movie for you.

44:17KT: I also wanna shout out the screaming sister, and she made no attempt to cover up her boobs, but she was covering up her boobs. So

44:27Oti: She gotta hide the nibs, fate. Congrats, question mark.

44:31KT: What I would not question and I wholeheartedly enjoy, I will reference Krampus. Oh. The Dwight Belsnickel, but the actual film. If you're feeling ookie kookie and all the spooky on Twitter and Instagram, we are @ForYourRefPod. You can write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also an Apple Podcast. So if you like to leave us a rating and review, we would very much appreciate that. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.