Titanic – Put your tryst in me

Full transcript of Titanic – Put your tryst in me.

0:00KT: G'day. It's For Your Reference. And we're going to Your Phrase or Mine, and I'm the love master this week.

0:00Oti: Tell us.

0:11KT: I hope you're good with ancient Chinese proverbs.

0:11Oti: As much as I'm good with my fingers.

0:16KT: You know it. And it says, love the house, also the crow.

0:24Oti: Love the house, also the crow. Does it mean that you should love yourself and or others including their blemishes?

0:35KT: Okay. I I need a proper answer. Is it yourself or is it others?

0:41Oti: Others.

0:43KT: Okay. By technicality, just like Valentine's Day, you get it, sir. You've got it.

0:43Oti: Oh, you don't see me prancing around getting an answer right because I got them all the time.

0:43KT: Damn, dog. Let's jack Polance to this intro music. Hey, guys. Welcome back. It's For Your Reference. And today, we are covering a blockbuster smash.

1:33Oti: Mhmm.

1:34KT: As you would have read through the title, hold on to your doors because Rose ain't gonna save you. Rose never saves anyone. Poignant yet true. Today, we are diving into the 1997 classic. We can call it a classic.

1:51Oti: It is a classic. Right?

1:54KT: We are diving into the 1997 classic Titanic written and directed by James Cameron. Yeah. Well, it's man, it's a really big budget movie. We've got lots of thing to say. Before before we do, I do just wanna say we just wanna put some respect on the victims and also the family of the victims because a lot of people unfortunately, passed away as a result of the sinking of the Titanic, that happened in 1912 on the fourth night of their voyage.

2:27Oti: Yeah. For sure. It's one of the worst tragedies

2:30Oti: to happen in this

2:30KT: We are going to say some real things about the movie The Titanic, so I just wanted to set that out from the onset. K? You know, you guys know how this goes For Your Reference. We're going to jump into some stats right now. So this was released in December 1997. Mhmm. We've watched it recently and we didn't wanna look at the box office. So let's go into that right now. The budget was $200,000,000.

3:00Oti: Whoosh. Right?

3:02KT: Then again, they they managed to get a lot time. That went. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Especially in 1997. I feel like a lot of it would have been manual Yeah. As opposed to CGIing everything. Yeah. Yeah. So good good for you, James Cameron. And it grossed, oh my, two point almost $2,000,000,000.

3:22Oti: Oh, that's a profit to boot.

3:24KT: Yeah. It's a pretty penny. Don't you reckon? Yeah. It's For Your Reference, guys. And also, fun little fact, the Titanic is in a three way tie with Ben-Hur and also Lord of the Rings: Return of the King for the most Oscars for a film. 11 Oscars,

3:42KT: to be exact.

3:42Oti: Alright. I can still see that. Yeah. Right.

3:46KT: So to to break up the droning love story, I might just try and fit in some actual historical facts or facts about the movie as we go along. Yeah. To keep you learned meat. Yeah. Keep you well learned. Just don't try and get accreditations through For Your Reference.

4:05Oti: Oh, you don't wanna give up For Your Reference, CDVASITI certificates?

4:09KT: I feel like that's a tier for Patreon, isn't it?

4:12Oti: Yeah. Oh, shit. We'll be giving you certified

4:16Oti: badges or whatnot.

4:16KT: We are going to get in trouble. If if anyone of note comes knocking, we don't exist. Okay? Time is nonlinear, my friend. Let's dive into the cast. We have got Oti DiCaprio. Oh, sorry. We've got Leonardo DiCaprio.

4:38Oti: Sorry. I don't know. I don't go with the fast tones. I don't know how that happens. Sounds a bit better. Right. You know? That's just me.

4:45KT: Playing Jack Dawson. And then we've got KT Winslet. Oh, I'm so sorry. Kate Winslet. I'm so sorry. Contribute to our nonexisting Patreon if you want to see Oti and I recreate the Titanic.

5:00Oti: And there were bathing seeds.

5:03KT: That's a vomit forever. No one wants to watch that. Oh, there's a fetish for vomits out there. So Wow. You know what, guys? If you thought we were going to talk about the romantic epic Titanic and not talk about vomit fetishes, you were wrong. And shame on you because there's no shame around here, I say. No shame at all. Let's continue. Sorry. Kate plays Rose. We also have her fiance, baby daddy to be, played by Billy Zane for the character Cal Hockley. Mhmm. We also have our main bitch.

5:44KT: Sorry. Out of respect. Our main boss bitch, Kathy Bates, playing Molly Brown. And I think they refer to her as the unsinkable.

5:53Oti: Yeah. She is. She's amazing.

5:55KT: Oh, amazing. Exemplary. Mhmm. Everything. Right? New money, they called her as well. New money indeed. And we will there is so much about social status and class that hopefully we'll be able to touch on in this episode. But let me just give a few more names. We've got Frances Fisher playing Ruth, the mother of Rose.

6:18Oti: Annoying ass.

6:20KT: Like I've said in at least last week's episode, no one can fuck you up more than your parents, and Ruth is a perfect example of that. Mhmm. For sure. Right? We also have old Rose who's played by Gloria Stuart.

6:36Oti: Yeah. She has her own issues as well.

6:39KT: It should it should call the issues that sink the Titanic. Right? But there you go. We've got a whole slew of actors, and we will get through to them as we go. But there you go. Those are the snats. The oh, the snats?

6:52Oti: Snats sounds better.

6:55KT: Snack snatches.

6:56Oti: No. That sounds like a daddy pussy.

6:59KT: That's what I wanted. Shout out. Woo hoo. We don't have a name for our listeners. Do you wanna call them daddy pussies? No. Nah.

7:12Oti: I think there's a line somewhere, and I think we crossed it a few minutes ago. Yeah.

7:19KT: Sorry, guys. We do appreciate you. If if you're still here, thank you. And hopefully, we won't let you down. Chances are, we will. So let's continue. Let's get into this. Let's go into first impressions. When was the first time you watched the Titanic? How many times have you watched it? And the first time you watched it, what was the experience like?

7:19Oti: First time I watched it, I think, was still the same year it came out. I was quite young, which surprisingly

7:46Oti: Uh-huh. I didn't remember all the nudity that was on there.

7:46KT: Mate. Which even surprises me how you got into the bloody cinema in the first place. You're a young boy. That's all you should have been focusing on.

7:46Oti: Probably. Yeah. Yeah.

7:46KT: At least at least for thousands of years, that's what you're conditioned to focus on.

8:02KT: Hey, guys. No recollection of that.

8:05Oti: I really don't, which is bloody weird. But I did watch it and I think we had breaks in between the movie. I think they stopped it halfway through to say, hey, guys. Get out of the cinema. Stretch your legs.

8:05KT: Oh, it had an intermission and everything.

8:05Oti: Oh, yeah. No one's gonna sit in the bloody cinema back in 1997

8:25Oti: for three bloody hours.

8:25KT: Oh, you fancy. You fancy.

8:30Oti: But yeah. I think I was more emotional to the movie when it first came out. Think watching it back then, I think I cried when Jack was dying and the whole romantic scene at the end. Spoilers. If you don't watch this by the end, then screw you. So what happened to the yeah. I think so this is the second time watching it Uh-huh. Which is bloody crazy thinking about it. No. I think That I only watch it twice.

9:02KT: Unless you have an unrequited love that you're waiting for across the ocean, I I'd actually be interested because I really didn't see a desire to watch it more than I have. Do are you done?

9:02Oti: Yeah. I'm done.

9:02KT: Okay. Are you done?

9:02Oti: Done and dusted me.

9:02KT: Could you imagine a Baku? It's Titanic. Probably not. Probably not. So my first impression is I actually avoided Titanic as much as possible. I did have to come across it in English literature, also a pseudo sort of history sort of elective, and we had to watch the Titanic.

9:45KT: To my enjoyment, it was focusing on the historical facts of the Titanic. But as you guys know, if you've actually watched this movie, it's more focusing on, you know, the cat and mouse game that Rose and Jack play.

9:45Oti: You know what still doesn't get get me?

9:45KT: What?

10:01Oti: The fact that you bloody watched movies in school and call it bloody education. You are literally throwing books at us. No. Well, no. TV was seen as recreational, and everything that you saw there was for pure enjoyment.

10:16KT: I guess that's a new term to a hard hitting book.

10:21Oti: You're welcome. It's it's just ridiculous anyway. It's just complete.

10:21KT: You never watched movies in in school?

10:21Oti: Hell no.

10:28Oti: Hell no.

10:28KT: Even documentaries because we we did watch for history, did watch Hotel Rwanda. You didn't get to watch any movies at all?

10:28Oti: No. No. You're just bragging.

10:28KT: Yeah. I know.

10:42Oti: Yeah. I know. There are things called books detailing all these events that we were given to read. So

10:49KT: And also, not to rub it in, but in primary school, which I know a lot of our listeners are American, is it elementary? Well, before you're supposed to realize you have bonus. Right? During that time, if it was raining, we would be able to watch movies as well.

10:49Oti: I think the education system of the western countries just failed everyone.

10:49KT: For more about Oti's Oti's educational ramblings, please sign up and tune in next week.

10:49Oti: Mate, we were forced to learn everything

10:49KT: Oh, okay.

10:49Oti: From every other country.

10:49KT: Apparently, tune in now.

11:29Oti: Just saying. Just saying. Alright. Let's continue with the movie. Do you have some feelings? Just a little bit.

11:39KT: Oh, but wow. I feel like everyone at least knows about the movie Titanic. Yep. Right? I'm actually surprised because I did say in one of our episodes, we probably won't cover a rom com. I do kinda consider this a rom com. It didn't focus on the actual details of the Titanic.

12:00Oti: It didn't. It didn't. As much as it didn't, it still did pay homage to some of the facts that did occur to. And I think James Cameron did a good job of actually trying to keep the facts closely knit and actually using that as part of the cogs in his love story.

12:18KT: Actually, yes. And because we are a learned people and our educational repository is IMDb trivia, you're welcome, there there was a fact in there about James Cameron actually going on an expedition himself on the actual Titanic. Why then, sir, James Cameron, I have this poignant question for you. Why then would you cheapen this whole film

12:49KT: with a love story.

12:49Oti: Because people love a love story, mate. It's the way things go, isn't it? Mom, man. Because we have, like, what? Four years later, they do Pearl Harbor with

13:00Oti: Ben Affleck and Josh Hartnett.

13:00KT: Thank you for clarifying because I feel like there's a lot of Pearl Harbors out there.

13:06Oti: Yeah. Plus, they're doing another one, I think. So it's just something people would lean towards.

13:12KT: Not me specifically. I would I would do without a love story. You know what a good example is about a very interesting historical event being ruined by a love story? Pompeii featuring your best friend, Kit Harington. Oh. Bastard number one. See? There you go. Love stories just cloud things, especially when we're talking about historical stories.

13:36Oti: Yeah. But then there's a line between being an actual movie and a documentary and yeah. I guess you wanna three three artistize. Woah. Is that a fucking what? Three artistize.

13:48KT: You know what? Hi, guys. If this is your first time listening to For Your Reference, Oti is very articulate. So I feel like he didn't misspeak and that is

14:00KT: his Kenyan education coming through. Correct?

14:00Oti: Very good Kenyan education. Thank you very much.

14:11KT: You know what? I admire it. You know you are dead ass wrong and you still stand by it.

14:11Oti: It sounds like a cool ass one, though.

14:11KT: Wow. You you are really standing by your guns, aren't you?

14:11Oti: I am. I am. Pow pow.

14:11KT: So before you theoretic arising

14:32Oti: Just say, like, it's it's just I've lost my train of thought. What was it? Yeah. Talking about the Titanic and the historical facts about it. Yeah. So there's a thin line You between know, the film that we're covering today? There's a thin line between it being an actual movie and a factual documentary. No one would go and well, very few people would go and watch RMS Titanic.

14:32KT: Hi. Me. Hello. Hi.

14:32Oti: Yeah. But then people want to escape the realities of life, I guess. And that's the whole point.

15:11KT: I suppose.

15:12Oti: Love makes it through the end.

15:15KT: Yeah. It's fine. It's okay. I I get what you're saying. I don't agree with you because we are an agreeable podcast. See what you did? Oh, you just now. I've got that Kenyan fever right

15:33Oti: Oh, mate. That's not Ebola. I think we've all really realized. Wow. When you may mention an African nation with disease, mate, just goes for one thing.

15:33KT: For all of our non POCs,

15:44KT: probably don't go around saying the same thing, Oti, because you're probably not gonna get the same braces. Ebola, really? Oh, you're welcome. I think measles is more topical. Get your kids vaccinated,

16:00Oti: and let's get back to the topic. For the anti vaxxers, they just need to visit a developing nation, and they'll change their stance immediately. Just saying.

16:13KT: Welcome to For Your Reference, guys. If you thought we were just going to talk about a quaint love story about the Titanic and not talk about the real anti vaccination problem that we have in this day and age in 2019, you are wrong. Welcome. How fun would this be if this was your first episode? Oh, yeah. Listening to us. By the way, if this is your first episode listening to For Your Reference, no. Go and listen to dad I was gonna say daddy wood. Go and listen to Deadwood.

16:45KT: We are derailing, and we need someone to help us. But, yes, if it's your first time listening to us Steer the ship, producer. Gung ho to the poop deck.

16:56Oti: Poop deck? Yeah. That let's just go. Okay. Move on. Moving on. Moving on. Alright.

17:01KT: Aztec. I think you prefer that. The Aztec. Oh, it's the Aztec civilization. So we need a moderator. Usually, it's our dog, but he's really not bothered with what we're doing right now. He's really not bothered. Let's go back. Let's go back to the love story. I do wanna talk about Rose specifically and also Jack, but let's talk about the love story in general. As this podcast goes along, we are no we're no means a historical podcast, but I will try and fit some historical facts as we go along or even IMDb

17:47KT: trivia facts as we go along just to bring some levity because this love story, I'm not about that life. Right? So let's go. Let's get it into it. Let's talk about the actual love story objectively. Does that exist? In in film opinion, does that actually exist? Objectively, the love story. Whether it was required or not, how did you feel about it? Did it help drive the vehicle? Did it help culminate the emotional feels that you had

18:21KT: through the film experience or not really?

18:21Oti: I think we got the answer when they made $2,000,000,000 out of this, meaning that it actually did. Wow.

18:33KT: It's it's one of those things like Are you going to sell out podcasts for a packet of beans?

18:39Oti: Just saying. You know, he came up with a formula that actually worked. So kudos to him. You know, finding love made this one of the biggest tragedies in the world.

18:53KT: Tragedy. Oh, yeah. Or you lose.

18:56Oti: It's bit of also something like that. But anyway, it just works, I guess. You know. And it went from I think the first time watching it because I think that's what we were banking on. The second time, I think I've watching it with a bit more of a rose tinted glass. Now that means it's good actually. Right? Yes. Yeah. I'm washing you with Oti tinted glasses. Oti tinted glasses. Yes. Yeah. It's not as nuanced is what I I meant to say.

19:24KT: I semantics. Right? Because we're all about grammar and words. Like Right? I don't think anything we've said actually makes sense, but there you go. I really don't think nuance was the problem. I think it was delivery, and I think it was also message. Explaining. You know what she just did? I asked you about the love story, and you're talking about everything except for the love story.

19:56Oti: No. I think the love story is what pretty much drove Titanic to be a blockbuster classic that it is today. Take that away, and all you have is people audible

20:10Oti: in a ship.

20:10KT: No. All you have is a fascinating case study about a ship that was coined as unsinkable. Right?

20:19KT: That is way more interesting.

20:19Oti: There again, used the word case study. Once he said that, I was like, that's a documentary, mate. No one's coming there for that shit.

20:19KT: I am.

20:19Oti: And as much as we love our W. L. H. And Broad telling us nature,

20:34Oti: you know, that's that's our line. And then when you get deep into come about saying penguin? Yeah. And then when it gets to people dying in large scale, oh, yeah. I don't think anyone needs that case study. Not in this world. Not in this day and age. Yeah. But it doesn't matter. It's all covered by the love story.

20:54KT: So you're fine now. Right? Yeah. Well, alright.

20:59Oti: Yeah. You tell me. You tell me what you thought about it.

21:02KT: I feel like there are other vehicles in order to convey, you know, a tragedy or a historical event. I really didn't feel like a love story was the best vehicle to do it through. But, you know, it's up to everybody's preferences, and I guess we'll be interested to know whether that got in the way of you enjoying the film or that was the reason why you enjoyed the film. I didn't necessarily feel so. Also, the second time viewing this movie, which was a couple of days ago, I didn't realize how problematic Rose was.

21:37Oti: Mhmm.

21:38KT: And it's not to say that rich people don't have problems, but Jesus Christ. She was sitting on her diamonds and she was talking about being on a slave ship. Are you for real, lady? This is 1912.

21:51Oti: Like, it is rife out there. Yeah. She is rife there with slavery. And it was just weird. I was like, yeah, mate, unless you're actually being enslaved, you cannot compare the two. Yeah. Right? Yeah. That that's that's I was like, nah. You can't go there.

22:06KT: That's like another episode for another day, but Jesus Christ. That lady needed to get a grip. She did. She did. Get a grip like she did on the door and she didn't do for Jack. Jesus Christ. I'm not over that. Wow.

22:18Oti: Right? Well, then again, MythBusters did say that it required

22:23Oti: additional efforts to keep the door float.

22:23KT: But you know what MythBusters also didn't do? They didn't pan out to the widescreen where they saw Kate Winslet giving them money under the table. See? The more you know, my friends. Uh-huh. That's a For Your Reference trivia fact, not an IMDb one. Come and fight me in our mentions if you want to. But, wow, she was a problem. And I guess she wasn't really getting much sort of attention from Cal, her fiance, her baby daddy Mhmm. To be. But Jesus Christ, man, I just, like

23:01KT: it was a lot of escapism, but a lot of her character just really I had to I get essentially, she gave me the impression that she was the sort of person that, like, acted up just to get her parents annoyed, just to piss them off. She just seemed like that sort of person.

23:20Oti: You know, if it was it it was 1912. If they had a black man there, the best thing she could do, get without black man. The power will be like, Rose, we're getting off the ship right now.

23:32KT: It was 1912, so let's not even that that would be no joke.

23:36Oti: Yeah. That's what I'm telling you, mate. If you really wanna annoy them, why not go all the way?

23:44KT: No. That that would turn into a bloodbath. That wouldn't even be annoying them. But Jesus Christ. I I don't know. Like, I didn't really care for Rose's character even though we do stan a sumptuous I don't wanna objectify you, but a delightful Kate Winslet in the For Your Reference household.

24:06Oti: Yeah.

24:07KT: She is exemplary. Even with her most recent film with I think it was Liam Hemsworth as The Dressmaker. It was. That was a lackluster film, but, you know, we still stan to the end of time. She was gorgeous. And I do just wanna point out that when they actually did the draw me like one of your French girls, the way that she was laying on the couch, his hand and the sketchbook was actually covering her right titty. Right? Mhmm. I feel like they did that on purpose because those were real ass natural ass titties.

24:48KT: And if you've got real ass natural ass titties and you're laying in that position, it would literally look like sludge. Like

24:48Oti: Oh, I know that with my moobs.

24:48KT: I okay. I am offended. How dare you? That in the For Your Reference household, your boobs rank higher than my boobs.

25:13Oti: I just say, we both have something to play with. Today,

25:16KT: oh. If if you wanted to know more about what goes on behind the microphone, now you know, and you regret it. You nasty.

25:36Oti: Yeah. So

25:38KT: I feel like our listeners were pure before this happened.

25:41Oti: They know themselves. I doubt it.

25:45KT: Especially if you've listened to one or more episodes, we're all going to hell together. Let's just admit it. I was talking about titties. Right? And then you brought yours up, but it's fine. Our dog has titties. Everyone, titties for all. Free the nipple, if you will. Right? But, yes, I just didn't wanna I just did want to point that out because real titties don't sit nice and perfect when you're at that sort of angle. So shout out to the real titties. Also,

26:15KT: shout out to the not so real titties because it's 2019. And if you feel great about yourself, go on. Go on and get yours. Get someone to suck your titty or suck your own if you've got big enough ones. I will not comment on that. But yeah. I got that big tit energy, babe. It's a thing. Let it happen. Clearly.

26:37Oti: It's a thing.

26:40KT: You know, if you went to go and get a snack and you're back now, we are talking about Titanic in case you were confused. We can talk more about titties, but maybe in a different episode. But yes. Oh, you wanna know a fun little tidbit about the sketching? Mhmm. The sketches that Leonardo was carrying out during that scene was actually done by James Cameron.

27:04Oti: Oh, he did that himself?

27:04KT: He did it himself.

27:07Oti: Oh, how long did take that?

27:07KT: He he orchestrated this whole film. Yeah.

27:13Oti: Oh, I will just get get Winslet to start my movie, and then I will just draw and then Everything else just falls into pieces after that, and then we'll figure a movie around that. And be like, where's the where's the film, James Cameron? Don't worry about it. No. This is the this is the most important scene. We're starting with this.

27:34KT: Let's leave James Cameron alone because I feel like he's one of the few in Hollywood that doesn't have a scandal. So let's not

27:34Oti: Yet.

27:34KT: Let's not start one. Free the natural and not so natural titties. Right? But, yes, Kate Winslet is a wonder to all. Do you wanna talk about Jack Dawson? J Dawson was actually a real person on the Titanic.

27:34Oti: Oh, yeah?

27:34KT: But it's not based on him.

27:34Oti: You reckon they got their family's permission to use that?

27:34KT: I'm not sure. But if you want another fact,

28:08KT: James Cameron actually consulted with at least a 150 extras, and he actually gave them all backstories. So shout out to you, James Cameron. But, also, if you did all of this research and he actually went on an expedition

28:08Oti: Oh, wow. He did the full nine yards, didn't he?

28:08KT: So then why cheapen it with a love story? But let's leave it there because we're not gonna get through the rest of the movie. But really, dude, you went through all of these actual archaeological digs and you still cheapened it anyway.

28:39KT: But, you know, you've got your 2,000,000,000 from this movie, so why would you listen to me? Right?

28:45Oti: Yeah. Jack is this

28:50KT: Were you gonna say learned?

28:51Oti: I was gonna say lovable, but not I guess he kind of is. Yeah. Yeah. You reckon? Yeah. Fair dinkum, mate. Did I use that correctly?

29:02KT: You did actually. Two points to you.

29:05Oti: Natural born Aussie. Anyway, so this lovable guy that wins tickets to join or to go to the Titanic and travel to go back to America, Willan, he is actually from America and just moved to London or UK.

29:23KT: Just happened there. Yeah. Just just just by the way. He's a vagabond. Is that what a vagabond means? I don't know. I've only ever heard vagabond in Can You Feel the Love Tonight? But that that's the wrong movie, so we're not getting into that.

29:36Oti: But yeah. So he goes into this ship fully excited and then stumbles across Rose or looks at her. And then from there on

29:36KT: I've said this in our Game of Thrones episode

29:51KT: with Robb Stark and that woman. Right? In regards to Jack Dawson, Leo's character, if you've got a nice face, you can pull yourself out of poverty. Right?

30:06Oti: For sure. For sure. If it was any other person other than

30:11KT: Jack, I don't think that would have worked at all. Like, he had his little titty drawings, but let's be honest. It was his face and his boyish charm

30:19KT: that got him over the line.

30:19Oti: It ain't your ass. Must be your face.

30:19KT: I think it's the other way around. Why did that

30:27KT: why did that sound like a Green Day version of Nelly's Tip Drill?

30:27Oti: Because I'm cool like that.

30:27KT: Because it's so progressive. It's For Your Reference, by the way. We're talking about Titanic, if you didn't know.

30:41Oti: But yeah. So it's it's quite enthralling watching it because we all want to resonate with Jack trying to score above your weight, which I did, by the way, guys. But Oh.

30:57KT: Wow. If if this is what it takes to get these comments, then we should do love stories all the time. I stan.

31:04Oti: Alright. We sure would. But yeah. It's it's all there. The the unattainable girl, he's poor, and because there's a theme of class in this as well. Right? Yes. Totally. It's quite laid on from the get go. They pretty much show the difference between what gets you in first class and Third class. Yeah. There's also second, but no one really talks about that, at least in the film. Yeah. So the difference is quite there to see.

31:32Oti: And from then on, we just see Jack and Rose go from strength to strength to the point where it took less than four days for them to fall in love. Mhmm. Or to say they love each other, which I think was a bit too quick, but, you know, whatever floats your boat. Or it doesn't. Oh, wow. If you'll pardon the sad pun.

31:52KT: Oh, wow. Okay.

31:52Oti: I can't help it. I can't turn it off. I'm so sorry. Oh, yeah. We're all rooting for Jack. Yeah. What about you? What did you think about him?

31:52KT: I think he was fine. I I think he was a great vehicle. I think they both served purposes for each other. Rose was looking for some fresh excitement.

32:13Oti: Yeah. She really was.

32:15KT: Someone to reinvigorate her sexual senses. Right? And Jack really did that for her. What I I guess I didn't really understand at the time when I watched it for the first time as an adolescent was Jack was actually well traveled and he's seen a titty or two. So it wasn't as if, like because for Rose, it seemed like she was trying to feed into the fantasy of, you know, she's the hot older lady as she's going to flower deflower him. Prima nocte, if you will. A reverse prima nocte if you're nasty.

32:56KT: But it wasn't really that because Jack has traveled and he's already talked about those French girls. Right? The one legged prostitute. Right?

32:56Oti: Yeah. But from my understanding, was there anything sexual rather than just

32:56KT: No. No. No. But but my point is for Kate, it was that fantasy because she's, you know, she's rearing this this guy. Right? And I'm just trying to understand what aside from a beautiful body that you can behold in Kate Winslet, I'm trying to understand what Jack's character would have gotten out of that arrangement.

33:29KT: Maybe he's one of those rare specimens that gets off on making women feel good.

33:35Oti: Maybe so.

33:37KT: He seemed like the sort of kid that would let the woman finish before he does. And shout out to all of you that do the same.

33:44Oti: Oh, thank you. I'll pat myself on the back for that then. I was looking right But at yeah. It's it's quite interesting because he just I think is or from what we want to believe, it's love at first sight when he sees Rose on the deck. It was just encapsulated by her. So I think he understands Rose. He understands what Rose is going through in terms of the struggle of not knowing what she wants.

34:14KT: Yeah. I think we both agree that they worked together. Yeah. We're not really sure in what components they fulfilled each other, but they definitely worked together.

34:25Oti: Yeah.

34:28KT: Is there anything else you wanna say about the love story before we dive into the characters?

34:28Oti: Nope.

34:28KT: I think they're good. Right? We've talked about Rose. We've talked about Jack. Do you wanna talk about so I guess what I want us to cover today is any other characters that we should talk about, but also the themes in the movie and also the social classes. So what what do you wanna cover first?

34:28Oti: The themes.

34:28KT: Okay. So I guess the overall themes, it was quite clear, you know, even through the start of the film that

35:04KT: the Titanic, it was the Rolls Royce of the sea. Right? I don't know if that's a proper coinage, but there you go. All of the who's who's that that was out there, fashion designers, Macy's, the the the founders of Macy's were also on the boat for the Titanic. All of the prestigious people that wanted to be there had to be there Yeah. For the maiden voyage of the Titanic. It was pivotal. If you were somebody, you would be on the maiden voyage of the Titanic.

35:42Oti: Right? Yeah. For sure. So I think one of the major themes in this movie is love.

35:48KT: Mhmm.

35:49Oti: Love conquers all. Love goes beyond class. Love overlooks all those things. Something that we all hold to high esteem when it comes to us idealizing what love is. Mhmm. So we all have some sort of stake in what this is and some stake in what Rose and Jack experienced because we all want to believe in this idealistic sort of love. Mhmm. So I think that's one of the biggest things in this. And I think that's what I was telling you. Uh-huh. If you take away love

36:25Oti: in Titanic, then it just becomes RMS Titanic. It becomes a case study.

36:25KT: What's wrong with that?

36:25Oti: And then it's not grossing 2,000,000,000.

36:32KT: I feel like

36:32Oti: That's the difference.

36:32KT: Hang on. I'm feeling it. I feel like that reflects more on us as a people.

36:42Oti: Yeah. You have you'll have a tougher time trying to change people's behavior, so might as well just roll with it.

36:50KT: I guess. Like a Kit Harington in Pompeii. Yeah. That was sad. That love story fucked that write up.

37:00Oti: Pompeii being an interesting story on its own. So yeah.

37:04KT: Yes. Yeah. But wow. So, you know, throughout the film, they were talking about how it was infamously coined the unsinkable ship, which was sad because every time someone said in the dialogue, this is sinkable, and we're like, uh-oh.

37:24Oti: Yeah. And I think they laid it a bit too heavily on the irony in this movie because we have a lot of them in in the show where you have, like you said, God himself could not sink this ship. Yeah. You know? It's it's just hilarious because as a viewer, you're already aware that the Titanic sunk. You know, you're not going into this thinking anything else. It's not a spoiler. It's just a fact. And,

37:52Oti: yeah, I'm hoping that's what people went into back in the day knowing what the Titanic actually sunk and not just some frivolous

38:02KT: Well, I guess it depends. If if you're not that big on history or the Titanic in general, you probably wouldn't look into it further than that.

38:10Oti: Yeah. Well, then again, there's a dedication system.

38:10KT: Well, there you go. But again, we are a TV

38:17KT: film podcast, so we probably shouldn't take it too much on the fact that it wasn't historical.

38:23Oti: Yeah. Right? True.

38:25KT: I feel like we're spoilt these days, though, because in 2019, watching the film, I'm like, yeah. Cinematography is good. Yeah. Costumes are good. But I think we take for granted that this was made in 1997.

38:38Oti: Yeah. Yeah. Which is quite impressive for what they achieved. Right?

38:45KT: And the CG was actually quite good as well. Even with the budget that it had, a lot of it would have had to been manual Yeah. As well.

38:54Oti: For sure.

38:56KT: So, you know, kudos to James Cameron and his crew. I'm sure they've got all the kudos and the money, you know, our kudos probably don't mean much to you. But I I do appreciate the film as an overall piece of work.

39:12Oti: Yeah. And I guess one of the other themes in this is greed.

39:17KT: Oh, yes.

39:18Oti: Yeah. Because with such tragedies comes human error and human greed. And for the things that you would think unfathomable to even consider for a ship of that scale to only have what? A 40 odd life lifeboats?

39:40KT: That's ridiculous, isn't it? Well, the rationale was they didn't wanna clutter the deck.

39:47Oti: Which is so fucking ridiculous.

39:49KT: But it's it's sadly understandable.

39:52Oti: It is hardly understandable.

39:52KT: Because

39:54KT: as we start to realize, this was the ship to be on. Right? And it it it really served, which in in many cases, if I wanna get real, it really served for the most richest and most prestigious people.

40:10Oti: Yeah. And you know what they did say in the movie? Well, with the old Rose, in present day, they're talking about how they're explaining how the ship sank even before Rose started recounting everything and those like the captain's experience went against him because everything that he knew was actually wrong and it caused the accident or whatever. But to me, it goes beyond that in that greed feeds into both the captain's need to have this sort of retirement grunger where he has, oh, I sailed the fastest ship to America in

40:50Oti: a day or a day less and it was like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Far out far out for someone who knows he's making enough time to get to America Yeah. And to still fire up the extra engines to just go full steam ahead despite the multiple warnings of icebergs.

41:10KT: And there was no reason for it. There was no reason for it other than sheer greed.

41:14Oti: Yeah. It's ridiculous.

41:17KT: Interesting fact, because I wanna cut through the fat of the love story with some historical facts. The Titanic was a bit different, and in their opinion, they were innovative and, in that sense, more on the cusp of cutting edge engineering. Previously, even smaller lines were fitted with four pronged propellers. Titanic was actually only had three. Oh. And considering the large scale of that Titanic can also lead to its demise as well. And, you know, let's let's talk about it, and we'll continue to talk about it in this episode.

42:01KT: If we're not clouded by the love story of this, there are many elements that could contribute possibly to the sinking of the Titanic. And I I just wanna point that out, but let's continue. Let's keep talking about the simulation, right, with old Rose. It's been eighty four years.

42:23Oti: You know what bothered me about old Rose? Everything. The fact that the first person she tells the story to is a fucking stranger. Right? You've held the story of losing your loved one. Uh-huh. Him risking it all Yeah. For you being a brat to the whole fucking thing, painting it as fucking love. Yeah. And then the first person you tell in bloody eighty four years is a fucking stranger who's only in it to find the fucking necklace.

43:02KT: And you know what's what's really weird because, you know, I'm not sure where you guys work and hi. Hello. If you're listening to us while you're working, but both you and I work office jobs. Right? And, man, do you come across some boring people, Some boring ass people with some boring ass stories. Rose had a substantial story Yeah. Linked to a historical event, and she didn't tell anybody?

43:31Oti: Not her husband.

43:32KT: Not her children. I understand why she husband. I understand why she wouldn't wouldn't tell tell the husband but yes.

43:39Oti: But to a bloody stranger who who who she calls when they show a picture of her naked on the TV news.

43:47KT: Actually, yeah. When you laid out like that, it seems like a Black Mirror. Come on now. Come on now. Get it together, guys.

43:54Oti: The first time I watched this, I didn't get that. I was like, oh, Second

43:59Oti: time, I'm like, far out, mate.

43:59KT: You're waiting for your Titanic your Titanic to rise.

44:05Oti: Oh, yeah. Well, then again, I didn't remember anything rising or even the nude scene, so it was all lost on me, I guess. Right? Yeah.

44:13KT: Yeah. But it doesn't make sense. She had such a actual she had an actual story to tell. And she didn't tell anybody.

44:22Oti: Yeah. Weird. So let me put it to you this way. Okay. In another scenario where she doesn't watch that news, does she take this story to a grave? I guess.

44:35KT: Or she'll bequeath the necklace and that's where she'll tell the story.

44:39Oti: She'll bequeath anything to anyone because she throws the necklace away anyway.

44:43KT: Well, I hope she's not queefing. I'm talking about bequeathing.

44:48Oti: Well, I'm happy with both. So

44:51KT: Grandma queefs?

44:52Oti: They're still queefs. They're valid. Don't be an ageist queefer.

44:57KT: I would put that For $1 for $1 on our Patreon, you can contribute to the grandma queefs. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. What do you mean you? You're the one.

45:10Oti: Wow. No. You just have to make everything weird. It wasn't weird until you started digging into it. Don't poke holes. Don't try and dig deeper into it. It just it is what it is.

45:20KT: Whoever's been listening and myself know that that's not true. You brought the weird into here. But, yes, the weirdest thing is Rose is recounting this story. And as far as this film goes, no one is disputing her. Why is she telling all the shitty things about herself? Wouldn't she make herself seem less bratty and less privileged?

45:43Oti: Because I think she feels like My life is hard. Yeah. Like, she's fighting the the system. She's fighting the man.

45:52KT: Talking about the system, let's talk about the social classes before we run out of time. There is quite a hard line drawn between the first class, the second class, and the third class. Right? The most opulent of society was living it up in first class. Hey, Theo. How are you doing? He was shaking. He was he was having a little shake in case you could hear that. Because you see the disparity, for lack of a better word, of the different classes. I don't think second class really got much of a mention

46:31KT: in this film. It was more about the first class and the third class. And wow. Just wow. It was leaps and bounds different in every single way in regards to how they were treated.

46:47Oti: Yeah. It it really was.

46:50KT: And let's let's get to the final scenes of the film. Right? Once there is some sort of semblance that we are in some trouble, first class was like, here's a life jacket. If you want to evacuate, it's fine. Right? And then once I got to the third class, they were throwing one life jacket to a room of four being like, fend for yourselves and, you know, running off and, you know, trying to tend to everyone else. And something that I really had a problem with was, yes, we've talked about the lack of lifeboats. Right?

47:26KT: Even in that sense, you know, the the first class passengers were really blase about it. Some weren't even wearing their life jackets. Some weren't really they're like, can I go back to my cabin now? Yeah. Can I go back to my cabin now? Why are you bothering me

47:42Oti: True. Sort of thing. And it's I guess it's really annoying and it's just painting quite a vivid picture of how society is. Right? Yeah. Because you had that star war, like 60% of the first class people made it. Uh-huh. That's just a stark number compared to the all the people that died. It's very high away. Majority of them being trapped below deck with no way up,

48:13KT: no life jacket. Well, according to the film of the of the lifeboats that were there, only one of them came back for Even that. And most of them were

48:25Oti: plenty empty, mate.

48:27KT: Yes. There were only about 20 people in a capacity of 65.

48:32Oti: I rage. You know?

48:36KT: Oh, speaking of rage, you know how the musicians were playing up until the final moments of the Titanic? Fun fact, Edith, who's a survivor, she was actually in the first class Mhmm. At the Titanic, and she was 15 years old. So she was quite young. So that's how she was still alive to be in existing interviews in 1957 or also in the nineteen nineties as well. She mentioned that, yes, there were some musicians that were playing up until the final moments, but they didn't play Nearer, My God, to Thee. What did they play?

49:14KT: It no one can really remember from a lot of the accounts. No one can really remember what exactly Understandable. Was being played. However, it was something that was upbeat. It was something that was quite happy. And Edith, who I'm talking about in particular, said that Nearer, My God, to Thee definitely wasn't playing because that would have been a lie

49:35KT: and a mockery. So it's just more for dramatic effect for this. Right? And we we had grown up with the notion that it was, oh, it was so sweet that God is going to come and save me, which we're not going to get into today. But, you know, to have that hymn, you know, Nearer, My God, to Thee. Apparently, factual,

49:53KT: according to Ruth, that didn't even happen. And on other accounts, not just Ruth. Yeah.

49:53Oti: They're probably playing it's getting hot in here. Take off all your clothes. Probably the worst advice they could probably give, but there you go.

50:06KT: You know what? I was gonna throw a buoy out and save you, but you saved yourself. So congratulations. You didn't need my door.

50:17Oti: I was self correcting old teammate. Right.

50:22KT: Next season on Black Mirror.

50:25Oti: But yeah, I think they showed great valor and and just accepting the situation for what it was Mhmm. Embracing it and doing their best to calm whoever was on the boat that wasn't making it to the lifeboat.

50:42KT: Yeah. It's hard. Right? Because you really wonder in those moments if you were there, would you have been helpful or would you have been trying to fend for yourself? Yeah. It became you know, because we're older now. We're not kids just looking for bonus. You, your own, and mine, other people's. But you you really start to reflect on shit. If, you know, I've got a whole life now, would I actually sacrifice my life for others? Right? But the first class really wasn't that. It was just a matter of comfort.

51:21Oti: Yeah. Just goes to show you, get your money now, you know. Just get it. Get it.

51:21KT: Yeah. But people still die, dude. Like

51:21Oti: Well, you die, but at least some efforts will be put into trying to save your life.

51:21KT: You know what? That is true and very sad. Yeah. It was really just a matter of comfort.

51:40KT: It wasn't really a matter of safety and with Ruth's account, she was talking about at 15 years old, she was saying how there was ice on the deck. And they were talking to the staff saying, is this anything to worry about? And they said no. So naturally, she and her family just went to bed. Yeah. I guess,

52:01Oti: what other thing would they say to you wouldn't really want to raise anxiety levels or panic on the boat just or the ship. You just say, no, that's not a problem and try and figure out, yeah, how we'd save the ship even if there's none. I guess so. I I guess so. It's it's hard to say. Right?

52:20KT: Yeah. Because we weren't there.

52:22Oti: There were so many mistakes that led to this. Oh, totally. It's just a really, really bad or good example of human negligence.

52:32KT: And it I really wouldn't blame it on the captain. I feel like there are many contributing factors as to why.

52:40Oti: I blame him. I blame him a whole lot more than I would blame anyone else. Yeah.

52:47KT: You like it? If you nasty.

52:50Oti: But I feel like he just did not he did not command his ship as best as he could.

52:56KT: He let other people influence him. I know. But for for many decades, he has been the scapegoat for the sinking of the Titanic, and I feel like it was more complex than that. Right? But I I do wanna give a shout out to our friend, Victor Garber, who plays Thomas Andrews because he has a maniacal face. Right? He

53:23KT: was essentially a good guy in this film, but I kept looking at him and not trusting anything he said.

53:23Oti: Yeah. He's our guy from Scandal.

53:23KT: Oh, I think most of our listeners would know him from Alias. Okay. Just saying. Because Jennifer Garner is a great gal. She's a great gal. But, wow. Just it I don't know. Talking about classes, it really gets to you. You know? Especially in that sort of society, you know, you you could argue that it definitely was more of a rule back then. Yeah. Than it is now. Yeah. But I

54:01Oti: I will not let him off the hook so easily. At the end of the day, the buck stops with him.

54:01KT: Really?

54:07KT: You're still gunning for him?

54:07Oti: I'm I'm just saying

54:10Oti: mistakes were made that were quite preventable at his level regardless of how many idiots told him otherwise because you know you know the dangers of the open waters so whatever you put in the ether, mate, you get it back in 10 folds and he chose to put negligence and and and and greed above everything else.

54:10KT: I do wanna disagree with you, but apparently, it took at least forty seven minutes for them to call it in.

54:10Oti: Because I thought they were cool, mate.

54:10KT: Well, they were assessing the damage.

54:41Oti: Oh, and the sad thing is, when they sent out the SOS, there's a ship actually which was quite close but the guy who was Yes. The guy who was reading those went to bed early Yes. And only saw it the next day. How frightening and by the time they got there, everyone had died. Yeah. Nerve that is nerve wreck. That guy would oh, I feel so sorry for him.

55:04Oti: I feel so sorry for him. I think that would live with me forever. That would Oh, yeah. I would get haunted by that. Totally. Me choosing to go to bed pretty much, oh, that's that's harsh. That's really harsh. Wanna know. You're just like, oh, you know, it's just any other night. Let me just go to bed Yeah. There aren't any signals. It's fine. It is. It really, really is. Then again, you have the 40 odd lifeboats that went out and never came back to try and rescue anyone.

55:32Oti: True. People are the worst. Fucking hell. How are you even living in this bloody world? Fuck sakes.

55:39KT: Rose is the worst.

55:40Oti: No. She's not. Five people of Rose

55:45KT: is the actual worst.

55:48Oti: Tell us your qualms with Rose. My qualms.

55:52KT: Jack Dawson put his tryst in her. You're welcome. This is a sound bite. No. But it's like she was selfish up until the very end.

56:02Oti: How so?

56:03KT: So I think it was in the MythBusters episode. They were talking about it only had to take fifteen minutes in the water before you would die from hypothermia. Right? Re irregardless of that. Right?

56:19Oti: Well, some people fifteen, but other people are different and it would take two minutes or so. Semantics.

56:24KT: Right? In any case, I would rather live in a world where we both don't have legs than to be without you, sir. That's awesome saying. I feel like I

56:37Oti: get that. I get that. And they did prove that they could have probably survived if they use some ingenuity. Yes. Only if you use that ingenuity, which in that situation, without the added benefits of time and relaxation and not having your life on the bloody line, you can actually think something out. But at the time, I don't think I don't think I blame her at all for that. I really don't.

57:01Oti: Because I think if it was me, I would probably do the same thing. I'll just plump you on the on the boat, on the door and I'd drift away. I won't even stay next to you so that you don't come find me. I'm like, see you. Gonna die now. Bye.

57:19KT: Just like that. Just like that. Just like that. What do we even say after that? What do you what do you want? What are you seeking for, sir? One of the accounts that I was listening to in the History Unplugged podcast, they're quite big, so they probably don't know about us, but I'll put them in our show notes because I was listening to a few of the podcasts that they had in the series of the Titanic. They were talking about how there was a survivor or at least one of the accounts. He

57:55KT: was actually throwing the pool chairs off the Titanic because he knew that the ship was going to sink. So at least if he had some pool chairs there, he would be able to grab one of them. Yeah. How sad is that? Yeah.

58:08Oti: Oh, and there's also another fact another story of someone who survived and they were in the water. I think they swarmed the whole world staying afloat the whole time. Yeah. And that was merely because he was drunk as fuck. Yeah. So I'm not advocating for people to get drunk and and warming your blood just it's just interesting to know that. Yeah. But let's let's round off.

58:37KT: You know what? We didn't really cover a lot in regards to, you know, other episodes where we cover as many characters as possible.

58:46Oti: But really, it kind of early focuses on these two. Yeah. We did get to see a little bit of Cal and he's just a hitable guy through and through. He even has a hitable face. Him and his right hand man, Loveless. Is it Loveless? I feel like it's a Will Smith, Wild Wild West reference.

58:46KT: Really?

58:46Oti: Yeah. His name is oh, sorry. Not Loveless, Lovejoy. Oh, I kinda feel disappointed with that now. I really wanted it to be Loveless.

59:16KT: Well, it's Lovejoy. Well, it's Loveless in this household.

59:20Oti: But yeah, that them too, tied to the hip, both ridiculous men. I don't even think he survived getting off the boat. Other thing, Rose didn't even notice Jack had died. She fell asleep on the fucking door.

59:20KT: Yes, queen.

59:41KT: Yes, queen.

59:43Oti: Mate, if I've given my life for you gave this full ass speech as stay awake. He gave a speech as well. Bloody stay awake to see me go. I told you, she's a selfish bitch. Oh, fuck. I'd even forgotten about that. See me off before you get to rest on your laurels.

60:01KT: Shout outs to the soundtrack because we do stan a strong Celine Dion

60:05Oti: in this household. Yeah. We sure do.

60:08KT: King of the world. Right? Mhmm. I felt I felt scared for old Rose when she was trying to do that. Yeah.

60:16Oti: I really hope though some harness is trying to, you know, hold a

60:16KT: Or maybe Chad Stahelski before he did The Matrix was helping.

60:25KT: He was like the stunt guy for Rose. Listen to our John Wick episode, guys. Oh, but, you know, all in all, it's a film that exists, and we've watched it twice. Yeah. And I think that's it for me at least. I think that's it. And you know what? No one asked for this episode, but you're welcome. We we try to give it a break because we've done a lot of TV shows. We've also recently done Naruto, Arigato. Listen to our episode if you haven't. But we wanted to kinda break it out to

60:59KT: what is a big blockbuster that almost everyone has seen because we love you guys. We love our listeners. Sometimes you guys listen to episodes that you haven't even watched. And even though I'm the king, I don't really wanna deflower you in spoilers. So hopefully, is an episode that you guys could enjoy and

61:19Oti: Sink your teeth into. Yeah. Right?

61:22KT: Yeah. If you're interested in this sort of content, let us know. If there's anything you want us to cover, let us know. But let's get into For Your Reference. This is a first. We've talked about love and romance. Let me go first. Yeah. Right? Yeah. You don't wanna fight? No. Not not today. This is a weird feeling. Okay. Let's get into it. I love a good documentary, especially about history.

61:49Oti: Yeah. It probably won't gross $2,000,000,000, but there you go.

61:49KT: But my integrity

61:54KT: is full. You know, there are quite a whole slew of documentaries that you can go through in regards to the Titanic. One that I specifically focused on when I was in high school was Titanic: Secrets Revealed. The good thing about that is it also focuses on contributing factors, not just the captain. So that's my answer today.

61:54Oti: Yeah. My reference for today would be Pearl Harbor.

62:23Oti: It's just a different movie with the same theme where you get a really tragic event that happened. And in this case, it's the bombing of Pearl Harbor Uh-huh. And a love story plastered on top of it. So

62:23KT: Is there a love story in it?

62:23Oti: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, it's like a love triangle. So

62:44KT: Oh, no.

62:46Oti: Yeah. So go get on your hats and watch Pearl Harbor. I think there's a newer version coming out soon. There's that. So, yeah, I think this is a format that we'll leave on for a few more years or for a few more decades.

63:03KT: So that's us, guys. That was the Titanic or the sinking of our For Your Reference ship, if you will. I think we've jumped the iceberg talking about a love story. If you like this, if you like the softer, you know, more sumptuous sides of us, let us know. Otherwise, we'll probably just keep to our regular sort of formats, whatever we like to cover, we will cover. On Twitter and Instagram, we are @ForYourRefPod. Oti, guess what? Wow. We have hit a thousand followers on Twitter. What what?

63:40KT: Thank you, guys. That's really good. So much. If you wanna fight with me in the Twitter mentions because it's established that Oti isn't allowed on Twitter.

63:50Oti: Yeah. For obvious reasons because I'll be too awesome. Listen to our Deadwood episode.

63:57KT: Yes. And we also have an email and a website, sir. Oh, yeah. You could get us at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

64:05Oti: And yeah. We'd we'd love reading what you write. So continue sending those through and we'll respond when you do get some few minutes.

64:15KT: And speaking of, thanks to everyone that has left us ratings and reviews on Apple and everyone that has subscribed across all platforms for us. We really appreciate it and it does hopefully help us reach out to more people. Yep. So in the meantime, we'll see you next week. See you. Hang on to your doors.