The Irishman – The Killer and The Sweetheart

Full transcript of The Irishman – The Killer and The Sweetheart.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household and it is another course of our 2024 Martin Scorsese Reference Degustation. we are at the point in between courses, friends and lovers, where we are Googling and wondering what all the hype was about this restaurant. Our first serving was delicious and experimental in the King of Comedy.

0:23KT: Our second course was a fan favorite, a crowd pleaser in Goodfellas. and the third course was a zany, more misses than hits dish in The Aviator. And now The Irishman. Let's use the CG to slowly. Get on with the show.

0:45KT: Hey,

0:49KT: friends and lovers.

0:50KT: Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your killer and the sweetheart. I guess you can decide KT and Oti. Enter a familiar world with even more familiar faces at pit stops, cigarette breaks and retellings. Charge with a gun, knife you run with The Irishman this week.

1:18KT: They had to convince, Al Pacino to get into the film. Oh, did they? Joe Pesci as well, I believe. Um, and also since we're just coming off The Aviator, apparently he shopped it around. And, you know, it, it changed hands of gods and that sort of thing. And then studios got scared. So this film didn't almost didn't get made.

1:40KT: And then Netflix got it. Damn you, Netflix. Friends and lovers to celebrate, to celebrate, I am wearing my, franchise licensed merchandise. I guess to talk about the contradiction of how streaming is in cinema, but it's cool when they use your film,

2:04KT: let's get into general information and then we'll get into first impressions and also thank you to our patrons for contributing to common and recurring themes, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler.

2:17KT: CG Benjamin Button, CG Benjamin Button, CG Benjamin Button. They used the same technology and apparently they took like two years and they recreated Goodfellas, like a scene in Goodfellas to see how far off they were in like de-aging.

2:34KT: And friends and lovers, if I'm talking like this, then you know I didn't really care for the film. but let's continue, let's go on.

2:41KT: Martin Scorsese, again. I don't think we're going to do this again, Oti. I think we need to go back to writer directors for our Reference Degustation.

2:51KT: Um, and friends and lovers, just to let you know, this has been the most arduous Reference Degustation that we've had.

2:57KT: Usually by now we've banked all of them. We're actually recording it in real time. fortunately, unfortunately, in way of writers, we have Steven Zaillian who already has appeared on the podcast with American Gangster. There was a lot of flair in that, or maybe it was Denzel, I don't know, but the writings was there, Moneyball, uh, as well as The Night Of, and I, as soon as I saw The Night Of, like creator, as well as writing of The Night Of, tonally that made a lot of sense to me, also credited for writing Charles Brandt, who is the author of I Heard You Paint Houses, see.

3:38KT: Uh, The Irishman was released in September of 2019 on the opening of the New York Film Festival. Actors of Robert De Niro, Al Pacino, Joe Pesci. Uh, Ray Romano, Bobby Cannavale, Anna Paquin, uh, Harvey Keitel. It's nice to see Harvey Keitel again. in a more delicious run of Quentin Jerome Tarantino, Jesse Plemons, of course, we also need to mention as well.

4:07KT: And we'll also see him in Killers of the Flower Moon, I believe. I really just want to go home after Plemons.

4:12KT: I'm ready to go home for, but let's get into first impressions, Oti. Wow.

4:25KT: You can do this. We can do this.

4:28Oti: All right.

4:29Oti: The Irishman tests patience with its runtime and less effective storytelling on a second watch. Whoa. CGI de-aging distracts, yet Scorsese's touch shines in cinematography.

4:40KT: You know, just because you put something positive at the end doesn't mean we're not going to remember.

4:48KT: Just because you give us a nice rub at the end doesn't mean we don't remember all the spanking along the way.

4:54Oti: I really like, let's get into yours.

4:58KT: Okay. Okay. but I was also using an ass reference that you would appreciate and you would understand because you're a bit more duality. You're not just a TD man.

5:09KT: Like Martin Scorsese.

5:11Oti: I love my mummeries and ussies. Wow

5:14KT: Irishman has the same Scorsese beats we have come to love, but moves to a noticeably staggered rhythm in its device of storytelling, laboured performances, and reluctance to commit to the brutal energy of Goodfellas. Wow. Yeah.

5:33Oti: No, you go. Where's the smooth and where's the uplift a little bit.

5:37KT: You know, I'm all about the spanking, Oti, you don't even need to rub me at the end. Um, there's a lot of places we can go. again, we do have themes that we need to get into, but I just want to reflect on this Degustation that we've been doing so far.

5:58KT: And I want to pose a question to you. And it's also something that I never really thought to myself until we started watching Scorsese films.

6:12KT: But the question that I want to pose to you is what do you believe is the goal? Of a director when they direct a new film, do you believe it needs to, in some way, take the learnings and, and improve itself or offer something different?

6:31KT: Or do you think it's just building an overall catalog?

6:34Oti: I think there needs to be an imposition of the director into the story. To get a sense of who he is and how he perceives the story to be told, to paint a picture for us. So at least we know from an audience perspective who they are as a director, fundamentally. Again, we both said in our podcast, we love a good storytelling.

7:00Oti: We are about narrative above all else. When the narrative fails, usually there's very little we can take from the movie. So, with all this, throughout all this journey with Scorsese, I have yet to feel his presence. From a storytelling perspective,

7:21KT: he's too much of a voyeur

7:22Oti: that I can say, I can distinctly point and say, aha, that is you like, that's the like print.

7:31KT: Yeah.

7:34Oti: And it's hard because I think I was, I was reading, about this. The other day, and they're talking about how this director was on all talk, you know, he imposes himself in the story. He paints the pictures, he takes, he takes no, not this movie, a different movie altogether and how it's, it's a French film from back in the day.

7:57Oti: And how he imposed himself and I'm yet to feel that this could be five different people that we've watched the movies for. Yeah, absolutely. And I wouldn't be able to say distinctively from a storytelling perspective. Oh, I watched a Scorsese thing. Yeah. I can tell the quirkisms when it comes to cinematography that this is Scorsese, but does that a movie make Dwight?

8:20Oti: Am I sitting here just for those fucking close up shots and zoom shots and tracking shots? Yeah, you know, I, I don't know, I'm, I'm very conflicted.

8:31KT: You are conflicted because you answered your own question that you didn't ask. And no one's I'm going to answer my own question. Or what do you mean? My question is, well, essentially I'm going to answer my own question because Goodfellas exists.

8:46KT: I haven't watched Casino, right? Goodfellas exists. And like I said, in my opinion, in my limited scope of experience, It's one of the best in the genre. So if he already achieved so much in Goodfellas, why did he need to do this? Because I definitely don't believe that it achieved anything to that level or surpassed it in any way.

9:10KT: That's what my question was, because if you have a director that continually improves and learns, then that's one thing. But it just felt like, bring the fellas around and let's just Let's just make a film.

9:24Oti: I hear you. Ah, again, we're basing this off four films we've watched in this runtime. Nothing else.

9:33KT: But would you say that you don't have a grasping of Quentin Jerome Tarantino after six films, six, seven films? I would. Would you say that you wouldn't have a grasp of Hayao Miyazaki? After four or five films, I would, would you say that you don't have a grasp of Taika Waititi after a few films or Takashi Miike, like, I think that's a cop out genuinely.

9:55KT: And I was really slowly embracing becoming a film bro. And now I'm, now I'm so happy that I've, I don't go to film school because this feels like what film school is being told to watch something, something that's being lauded as something that stands out because of merit. And I'm not saying that Martin Scorsese isn't without talent.

10:22KT: But I would also say that he's taking up space in, in an industry that already keeps space for those that continue to have space. Does that make sense? Yeah. Just like when you asked me about Leonardo and I'm like, really? And Denzel's right there. Like, you know what I mean? Like, but in any case. I think like the, the two questions that we have a very interesting, because if we were carried away and immersed in the films, I don't think we would even wonder that.

10:56Oti: True. Um, and I get, and this is the thing, right? I'm big on rewatchability. You don't really care for it.

11:06KT: I don't care for it. At least it, it's not that I don't care for it. It's just that it's not factored into my overall experience and rating.

11:16Oti: No, I care for it. And I, this is one of the movies that I never really thought I'd rewatch.

11:20Oti: And on my first watching, I really didn't mind it as much. Uh, the aspects of the movie, I thought, cool. It could have been done in a short run time. Fine. But overall, I thought I had a good experience. It was something different. It was cool to see, a young De Niro, old body De Niro, like. I got that on my second watching though, this is now where I'm paying attention.

11:42Oti: It's up all that, you know? So I'm looking at everything and I'm paying attention to the story. I'm paying attention to all that in more greater detail because I already have a reference point. Yeah. So to have a movie that is this long,

11:59Oti: it goes to your storytelling effectiveness because either a, you don't fucking care. Or B you couldn't tell a cohesive story in a shorter time, which I think it would have been way better if this was way shorter than it was three and a half hours. Sometimes I even think these guys are just here to, to fucking laugh at us.

12:22Oti: Look at them mop it up, lap it up like fucking idiots sitting in the cinema for three and a half hours.

12:26KT: Yeah.

12:29Oti: Like, it feels like, American Fiction. They do it for a dare. And for some fucking reason we lap it up as if it's fake. Fucking God's gift from us.

12:38KT: Um, well, there's, there's definitely a lot more that I want to talk about, but let's get into the themes and we can go back to it.

12:48KT: and literally what you're saying, we're going to start off with direction and stylistic choices. This is Brent, long ass movies. And in The Aviator, we quantified, we qualified it as two tiers. Wine. Was it a long ass movie? Yes. And did it feel like a long ass movie in regards to pacing? Yes. Yep. Yep. You know, what's really frustrating?

13:10KT: The more we talk about this, the more I feel like. I, I, I definitely didn't like it, but I'm starting to, like, I'm trying to understand from like a ratings point of view, which again, friends and lovers, is very much not my MO. I usually don't try and think of numerical sort of ratings, but I don't know, I just, I just really didn't, I didn't jive with this film, if that's okay.

13:34KT: Let's move on. Uh, we have two patrons. So Rob says narrating, Julio says voiceover is an effective storytelling tool. So narration,

13:44Oti: narration was there whether or not it was effective. I would say not,

13:46KT: I would say no, I would say. Reenactments are supposed to be contemporary to the time, right, of the retelling.

13:58KT: The reenactments felt as labored as the narration in the nursing home to this man, but I'm just like, why are you tired in the reenactment? Because according to your de-aging, you're supposed to be 40 years old. You're supposed to be fine. And I don't understand why they work so hard on the de-aging, especially because in Goodfellas, De Niro was supposed to be 28, 29, and he was almost 40 at the time.

14:24KT: And man looked 40 as well. Man looked 40. Man looked 40. Um, I, see, I think it's harder to answer this question. Because I don't think anything was achieved in this film. So if nothing is achieved in this film, how then can you say the storytelling was effective? Does that make sense? I don't, I don't like for, I don't care for the storytelling device of a story within a story.

14:56KT: Right. Almost as much as flashing forward and flashing backwards, because it, it heightens the senses and it distracts the audience from the core of the story, which sometimes is done on purpose. Cause they don't want you to focus on what's there and not there. Um, but I just, yeah, I just couldn't get with it.

15:16KT: And I guess for that qualifier, it's not effective to me. Yeah. And it also felt like, because. It couldn't be made. I feel like there are a lot of young Italian American peeps that are ready to be acting. Well, what do I know? it just felt like this movie had to be this way. Does that make sense? It had to be De Niro.

15:37KT: It had to be the old crew. literally and figuratively it had to be this. So let's. Let's do mechanisms around everything to make it that way.

15:48Oti: If a money laundering scandal came out, I will not be surprised. They washed their money with The Irishman.

15:53KT: But it's like, it's like if you saw like a painting and you're like, okay, fine.

15:59KT: Until someone tells you that like a five year old kid painted it. You're like, Oh baby, that's so cute. Congratulations. You're a citizen of the world. You know what I mean?

16:14KT: And it's also, okay, we need to talk about the CG. I said we would leave it, but let's, let's just talk about it. So we can continue on.

16:23KT: Cause I feel like it's just going to, you know, slow Walker itself out of the frame. Like in salt X, where it took him 10 minutes to walk across the room. Um, I think it would be fair to say that the de-aging was very effective. But again, I also feel like it's one of those things where you're impressed by it because they're explaining how much work went into it, but I'm not knocking the work that went into it.

16:51KT: But I would also say it wasn't the whole meal, right? It's kind of like sex education. It's like, like this film was abstinence, but it's like, that's not a way to prevent. Do you see what I'm saying? There's other things that were happening in the film that made it very clear. You know what the funniest.

17:12KT: You know what the funniest joke is? And I feel like Martin Scorsese has channeled Pupkin all these decades. You know what the funniest fucking joke is? In The Irishman? That according to IMDb trivia, They had a posture coach. Shhh! Gets paid more than a weatherman. Cause how can you have a posture coach?

17:32KT: And that's what we get in this film. There's only so

17:35Oti: much you can

17:36KT: His shoulders were like this! He was coming out and there was too many scenes of watching these old men eat, especially eating ice cream. I don't need to see that.

17:47Oti: You can cross that out of your fetish, friends and lovers.

17:52KT: We don't fetish aim, but I, I, I was sure before the film, I was sure many hours after the film that it just doesn't do it for me.

18:02KT: So you're going to have to hold your mukbang somewhere else. Um, but how did you feel about. yes, the de-aging in the face, but the pain was in the body. How did you feel about that whole component? Cause now we've had what five years since the film has come out. How do you feel about the, not just the de-aging, but the components of having.

18:25KT: These legends play younger characters.

18:29Oti: I'm not gonna lie, the first time I watched this movie I was very impressed. I am still impressed by the CG that went into it and the de-aging of them. And it brought a sense of nostalgia watching these actors back in the day. Which held a lot of the, a lot of the things that I loved about the movie in the first watch. Watching it again.

18:49Oti: It does so little for me and it becomes very distracting seeing younger faces, older bodies struggling to do the mundanest of things. Yeah. Just no, they could have put younger bodies on their face. Superimpose their faces on there for just, or just get younger actors.

19:12Oti: It didn't have to be them. Yeah. They could have just been their older selves.

19:15Oti: Yeah.

19:19KT: Yeah. No, I, I absolutely agree. Like it's not about whether they were able to successfully de-age the face. It was like, let's address everything. It's the movement. It's everything. Let's address everything else. Acting of it all. Yeah. Even the way he was like. Like, trying to get moisture in his mouth.

19:37KT: That's some old man activities. And these are the shit that he noticed in

19:42Oti: the second watch, because I really didn't pay that much attention in the first watch to get all that.

19:47KT: Oy, you know what?

19:50KT: I also feel like Scorsese is a director, like a contemporary director. And what I mean by that is if you are watching the films as Scorsese releases them, you're eating good.

20:02KT: You know, but if you go back and watch The Aviator now, do you think it would be as good as the early 2000s? Probably not. I just feel like he's a, he's a man of the moment. He's a moment in time. let's move on Brent, New York. No, this is not New York. Uh, let's move on.

20:22KT: Rob, we have Scorsese bingo, freeze frame, slow mo, split diopter, tracking shots, extreme closeups.

20:29KT: Yep. Yeah.

20:31Oti: You get your Scorsese bingo in every movie pretty much apart from everything else.

20:36KT: Yeah. And even in the opening scene with the nursing home. Um, I think that's also fine as well.

21:00KT: Uh, Brent, historical retelling of real events. Yup. Yeah. That's. Um, um, our old mate, Liam Neeson, he would fit in quite well with this old man action, actually, Liam Neeson as well as Pierce Brosnan, apparently were in talks and being considered for The Irishman.

21:09KT: Um, but it was always, always as a backup last resort if De Niro didn't want to do it. Yeah. even though Liam Neeson resembles that Irish, like the actual person, he resembles him very well. but Scorsese said, like, apparently it was noted as saying he had concerns that they wouldn't be able to like hold the accent and embody an Irish.

21:35KT: I don't know, I don't know friends and lovers, but yeah, so historical retelling of real events. Um, you think.

21:48KT: With phrasing like, I Heard You Paint Houses, you would think that it would have something more compelling, like in way of the, the, the screen, but there is a theme about violence and, you know, crime and gangster drama.

21:59KT: So we'll come to that. Julio, the minutiae of large scale operations presented as an entry point into our character's world and lifestyle.

22:11Oti: Yup, it fits. Frank is our gateway into the world.

22:16KT: Yeah, I agree. I think it really was, you know, them on a courier mission for the rest of the movie. But that's okay.

22:24KT: but yeah, it definitely meets that criteria. Brent throwback films. Yes. Um, Brent again, crime slash gangster drama. Yeah.

22:36KT: I have a quote here and I want to have some discussion, but let me read this first. During an interview with The Playlist, Martin Scorsese teased that this would be different from his other gangster films, saying, I think this is different.

22:52KT: I think it is. I admit there are, you know, Goodfellas and Casino have a certain style that I created for them. It's on the page in the script, actually. Putting Goodfellas together was almost like an afterthought. At times, he was kind of rushing. He felt I'd already done it. Because he had played out all in terms of the camera moves and editing and that sort of thing.

23:14KT: Um, the people are also older in The Irishman. It's certainly more about looking back a retrospective, so to speak of man's life and the choices that he's had to make,

23:25KT: does that satisfy you? Because, you know, I even put it in my quote, it didn't commit to the brutal energy of Goodfellas, but it's in the same world in that sort of genre. Yeah. Because I'm not, that doesn't satisfy my quench for the tonality of the films and I want to get your thoughts on that.

23:47Oti: Oh, I remember a moment or certain aspects of the movie where you're saying, why just write that?

23:54Oti: Show us. And all this brutal moments that happened within the film, most of them were just written on screen.

24:01KT: But it didn't feel like a clever thing. It just felt like everyone was old and they couldn't fight anymore. But you know what I mean? Like, it felt like a very deliberate way. To not address what they're addressing.

24:15KT: so yeah, it is a crime, gangster drama. And I guess we can talk more about the violence later, but I don't know, I, I don't know, like obviously if that's his truth, that he feels like, you know, Goodfellas was being rushed and that sort of thing. But sometimes there is creativity in the lack of resources.

24:37KT: There's the innovation in the hunger, in being able to create with what you have, being given all the resources doesn't necessarily make you more creative. Nope. Right. Let's move on.

24:51KT: these are our Catholic boys. Rob, religion or religious overviews, sacrifice, temptation, the seduction of good by evil.

24:59KT: Again, what fucking Scorsese films are they watching? Julio, Catholic guilt, that's a big one. Ben, Catholic guilt or just guilt revealing itself through self flagellation, self harm, mental or physical.

25:13Oti: Uh, there is some religious aspect to this movie towards the end. Where we do get Frank visiting a pastor and trying to come to terms with his life.

25:27Oti: And there is a sense of guilt or shame in what he's done. And especially the distance Hoffa's disappearance created between him and his daughter. So there is some guilt and there's this Catholic sort of, will I be forgiven for my sins? Is it too late?

25:48KT: Yeah, but like, it wasn't wholly driven by religion.

25:52Oti: It wasn't wholly driven by religion, but there is semblance of it.

25:55KT: We can talk about the morality and the other things, but I don't think Catholicism has been like the lifeblood of any of these films.

26:04Oti: It hasn't, but it, there is still an appearance of it in this movie.

26:11KT: Sure. Yeah. Sure. Rob, powerful cabals and the inner workings of absolute power.

26:17Oti: Yeah. It's about bloody fucking gangsters.

26:21KT: Yeah, pretty much.

26:22KT: Julio, violence as the means to resolve conflict. Not much of it, but yes. So you. You mentioned it and if you want to expand on this point, now's the time, but yeah, there were title cards of the brutal ways in which people died. I don't know if it's, they wrote it in the cliff notes, so they already had the research.

26:46KT: I don't know if it was flexing, I don't know if it was crime doesn't pay, so we're going to say all of these people, like, fucking, like a nail bomb or some shit, like, just really wild out the gateways that all of these people are dying. But what's, I, I don't understand what the point of it was, like, was it because there wasn't as much budget, like they couldn't afford it?

27:09KT: Was it because everyone was too old, so they couldn't act out those, scenes? Or was it a rating thing? Like, is it cause they didn't want to be too violent? You know what I mean?

27:23Oti: Like, I think it was an artistic choice. Okay. Like there was a lot happening in this movie that having all those moments of violence in between would distract from what he thought this movie is.

27:37Oti: And having rewatched this a second time, I don't feel like those moments would play a part in this movie because wholeheartedly, at least from where I'm sitting, this movie is about Frank recounting his life, pretty much, and aspects of it, whether or not he was involved in whatever happened then. It wasn't relevant to the story.

28:01KT: No, but my, my question is he is a director that has shown up before. So why doesn't he do it now? Or is he a saved man? Is that where the Catholicism is? Like, I don't understand how he's done it before. He did it the best and now he's just like, that doesn't make sense to me. Just because he's retelling it.

28:22KT: I don't know. That just doesn't quench me in any way. and maybe, maybe cinema is not here to satisfy me. I don't know, cause I definitely didn't have a good time. I can guarantee that I did not have a very good time. Um, yeah, but it's hard to say if it was a different director, then fine. If it was like the Megan cut, then fine.

28:45KT: but again, so much of this film just felt like he, he was very determined in how and who he wanted to make the film with. So there was just going to work around. Everything else, logic be damned and that sort of thing. All right.

29:01KT: This is Julio, the idea that sooner or later our sins catch up with us. And sooner or later you learn that crime doesn't pay.

29:08Oti: I think that was met because we get a very sort of repetitive, um, Frank at the end who was struggling or seeing himself destroy his family or his relationship with the daughters and that sort of guilt of, Oh, my daughters could never come to me for anything because of who I was then.

29:32KT: But let's, so even actually, if it was a creative choice to not show the violence.

29:40KT: Even though I don't agree, but if, if that was a creative choice to not show the violence fine, that means the audience is more immature than Peggy, because Peggy didn't need to be exposed to all of the violence. She knew what, who her dad was. And he couldn't hide from her. So how can you have a kid in a movie understand that, but then the stylistic choice is to refrain from that.

30:10KT: Do you see what I'm saying? Does that

30:12Oti: Peggy only stops talking to Frank when Hoffa dies. Okay. She was rocking through up until then.

30:21KT: No, but I'm just saying, why are we being treated like babies? If the baby in the film gets it. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. Does crime pay?

30:29Oti: It does, unless you don't want to talk to your daughters.

30:34KT: I think if the daughters talk to him, he wouldn't feel guilty. So does that mean he was really guilty?

30:41Oti: Yeah, he's guilty because the daughters won't talk to him. He needed family at the end.

30:46KT: Okay. I, yeah, I, I don't feel that strongly. Friends and lovers, we have a beautiful catalog. You're welcome to go and listen to other episodes, but let's continue.

30:55KT: Um, Julio, living by a specific code of conduct, whether you're a criminal or not.

31:03Oti: Yeah, about their rules,

31:06KT: I think that was met. Yeah, uh, Ben, Marty cameo.

31:10Oti: Yeah. Apparently he's saying all rise in court or some shit.

31:14KT: Speaking of court, I miss A Few Good Men. Wow. Yeah.

31:19Oti: Scorsese has made you miss.

31:22KT: So did Oppenheimer.

31:23KT: Yeah. Well, like Aaron Sorkin doesn't write people like people, but it's definitely interesting.

31:30Oti: I do miss some quotable quotes in dialogues.

31:33KT: Exactly. so let's go to Julio, the struggle to be spiritual in a materialistic world. No one's spiritual in these films. Let's move on. Uh, and these, these are by all four of the patrons that contributed.

31:49KT: Rob, conflicted protagonists who are charming and righteous in their cause. They really believe what they're doing is the right thing. I would also say the narration and the distance. From the audience in regards to the narration, it kind of hampered any sort of resonance with a protagonist personally, for me, uh, Julio walking the tightrope when depicting morally compromised characters in a way that doesn't condone their actions while also keeping them interesting as protagonists challenging protagonists who are ethically and morally flawed yet human and layered.

32:30KT: Brent, that was from Ben, and Brent, heroic bad guys, relatable villains, usually loved for the wrong reasons by viewers. And he said, Taxi Driver, Goodfellas, Mean Streets, Wolf of Wall Street. Now, you sir, what say you?

32:44Oti: Not really, because

32:45KT: Well, you said he felt guilty, so that means he's conflicted. I don't agree, but that's what you said.

32:52Oti: Charming and righteous bit as well.

32:54KT: Nah, he's not charming.

32:56Oti: Exactly. In what world? And they're not conflicted at all. They're not conflicted. He's not conflicted throughout his whole thing up until, and even at the end, he's not really conflicted.

33:07Oti: No. You know, he, he does trepidate killing Hoffa, but man still does it.

33:13KT: It needs to be done.

33:17Oti: I don't think I would, but he does it. Anyway. Nah, I still think I'm end of the day. I don't think this movie had any, anyone charming at all.

33:27KT: No. Ugh. You know what, Oti? I always try to bring my whole self. To these recordings, and I'm a bit disappointed that this feels like homework, like this feels like, you know, coming back to class after trying to research the night before and then falling asleep.

33:50KT: That's what this feels like, but you know what the experience in and of itself has been very interesting. Um. And maybe this is the way that I need to be feeling for Killers of the Flower Moon. I don't know. but let's, let's wrap this up, friends and lovers, because I'm sure you're in as much physical pain as we are right now.

34:14KT: let's end with Julio, the toll of keeping necessary secrets from the people you love. Bruh, Peggy, Peggy deeped it way early.

34:25Oti: Yeah. Um, I think it was an open secret who Frank was. Everyone knew. Yeah. I think even his family. I think the only reason Peggy, like I said, stopped talking to him was because Hoffa disappeared.

34:39Oti: Yeah. She was not vibing with Pesci at all. Yeah.

34:47KT: Yeah. Again, this is like going to a restaurant that all of the influencers told you to go to. Like, why? Um, is there anything else you want to end on Oti?

35:02Oti: I am looking forward to the Flower Moon.

35:05KT: Yeah, because everyone films are bad. We still have things to talk about.

35:08Oti: Especially for a movie that went three hours strong. Um, yeah. Yeah.

35:15KT: All right.

35:16KT: Well, if you want to find us on the socials on Twitter, Instagram, Spill, Bluesky and TikTok, we're @ForYourRefPod. Write us a long

35:23Oti: email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

35:27KT: Ah, we're also on Apple Podcasts and every other podcast. If you'd like to leave a rating and review, I'm sorry, guys.

35:34KT: I feel very sad, but it's okay. and we'll see you in the final course. See ya. Bye.