The Hunt – Out of Athena air

Full transcript of The Hunt – Out of Athena air.

0:00KT: Hey. Welcome back. We are starting off with your phrase or mine. As always, my title is the wise sage. Mhmm. As you would have heard last week, Oti is the wide sage. As you will hear from the episode, a lot of inspiration was drawn from Orson Welles, The Animal Farm. Mhmm. And that is what I am taking it from Oh. Today. And the quotation is, I guess you can give your own Oti non professor interpretation, but you gotta kinda get the one in the ballpark of this interpretation. So all animals are equal,

0:44KT: but some animals are more equal than others.

0:48Oti: Oh. Yeah. It just means that in as much as we always wanted to live with a sort of mundane principle of all people are equal or whatever, we're really not. So subtle issues and subtle prejudices come into the picture and that just elevates people to a higher level of equal.

1:08KT: Oh. And I think all of these years of being with me has trained you quite well. I say we're equal but I'm more equal. Let's get on with the show. Howdy, friends and lovers. Welcome back to For Your Reference. We got your host, KT.

1:08Oti: And Oti.

1:08KT: And grab your panic gags and your symbolic and literal pig because this week we are covering The Hunt.

1:58Oti: The Hunt indeed.

2:01KT: Yeah. Wow. A Lindelof of a hunt.

2:05Oti: A Swank of a hunt.

2:07KT: Spoiler?

2:09Oti: It's not a spoiler.

2:11KT: It's a million dollar spoiler right there.

2:14Oti: KT, is that a spoiler?

2:17KT: Yes. Oti. This is like the canceled Muppets. The rejected kind that no one ever wants to see, unfortunately. Welcome to the For Your Reference household. If this is the first time you're listening to For Your Reference, we take kind lady to your kind around here. We do we do read a book. We have read Animal Farm, but it has been a while.

2:43Oti: It seems like if you've read Animal Farm, you're you're considering Amnable?

2:49KT: Amino?

2:50Oti: Anime. Anime. Anime. Anime. Anime. If you read anime farm oh, don't worry. I'm not I'm not gonna spit my rhymes over here. Well, you spat it. You're gonna swallow it? Apparently, it's an elitist thing. I don't think so. Like, kids in primary school are reading Animal Farm.

3:12KT: Not sure they were the most elite people ever. So Mate, we we we saw you on the film. We know you have a podcast. Alright? Settle down. Let's get started with the stats for this particular film. If you are a cine cine file or if you are a release date buff, you might be aware that this release has changed in light of contemporary to the time shootings in The US, mass shootings. So they did change the release. It recently came out, I mean, a couple of weeks ago. And

3:58KT: so they postponed it and then it's now being released at a time where it's not really getting a chance because of coronavirus.

4:05KT: And

4:07KT: that is severely affecting it.

4:08Oti: Yeah, I think you could buy it on Amazon Prime for $20.

4:13KT: Yeah. Just like Invisible Man. Yeah. Before we before we get into the rest of the episode, I just wanna spend like maybe two minutes talking about this because we have all of the streaming. People said Netflix would disappear with Disney, but that never happened. But do you think it's too much to spend $20 on a movie that's recently released?

4:33Oti: I guess that's a justification as opposed to just watching It's more the thinking that you're gonna pay that $20 to go and watch it in the cinema anyway. Why not pay that $20 now and release it straight to a streaming platform?

4:48KT: See, this is you being elite again. I'm talking about you as a viewer, you as a consumer, you as a audience person.

4:55KT: How do you feel about having to pay $20?

4:55Oti: I don't mind. It's like the days of buying bloody DVDs and Blu ray's discs.

5:03KT: You mean your Blu movies? I thought those only cost $2 for 10.

5:08Oti: I I have no qualms. Like, there's a pandemic going on. Literally. If if this is the sort of way to prevent to deter people from going to cinemas in countries where there are no lock lockout laws, then I'm all for it.

5:24KT: And, you know, like it enhances the experience, but if a film is shit from your tiny little baby TV, then maybe the film's just shit. Right? Yeah. There's only so much you can attribute to the film going sort of experience. And I'm not saying necessarily that's the case of this film, but I think it was timely just to mention because we recently watched the Invisible Man. And we obviously, we just watched The Hunt and they both came at a hefty sort of tag of $20.

5:55Oti: Yep. Yep.

5:56KT: Which is very relevant going into the actual stats of this film. It is Blumhouse. Blumhouse is a darling in the For Your Reference household. Upgrade was our third episode. And, you know, we've done a lot quite a quite a lot in comparison to ratios in regards to Blumhouse. So shout out to Jason. Hey, oh. We're on a first name basis. What can I say, Oti? The budget for The Hunt was $14,000,000.

6:26Oti: $14.01 4?

6:28KT: $1.04.

6:29Oti: Ah. Is Hunt's pretty decent in this day and age.

6:35KT: Well, it's a lot. Get Out was 5,000,000.

6:39Oti: Yeah. And I Get think Out aren't really running around shooting people or making people explode.

6:45KT: No, but that's not the point. I'm talking about the Blumhouse sort of model, dude. Good for you, mate. No. Good on you, mate. Jog on your bike, mate.

6:54Oti: Fuck off.

6:55KT: Wow. We're starting early. The cumulative worldwide gross according to IMDb on the March 26 is $6,500,000

7:07Oti: Oh.

7:08KT: Yeah. So it's only been out for like a week ish in America and obviously there's going to be digital sales as well. But yeah that I guess if you I don't know maybe like twenty thirty years in the future and you didn't necessarily live through coronavirus and you looked at this you would probably be like what the fuck happened to this film But I guess if everyone's around in that sort of context, it kinda makes sense where we are.

7:37KT: Where we are is where we never were. And that is a great way to introduce the writer of this film, Damon Lindelof.

7:46Oti: Lindelof.

7:47KT: As as all learned friends and lovers would know, Lindelof is the the mind creation of Lost. Mhmm. We have director Craig Zobel and we also have Nick Cuse credited as a writer as well. Knowing that Lindelof did this after we watched it, not knowing watching it, but knowing after, it kind of made sense because it's like, you've got all of this wankery, oh, is it? Isn't it? And I'm just like, come on dude, like, if

8:23KT: you don't know where the story is going, just admit it. Right? And there's no Sawyer to satiate you in the meantime, unfortunately.

8:31Oti: No, but you do get Betty Gilpin who's

8:35KT: You barely remember anyone's names. I am very impressed. So you should be. Yeah. I don't get it often. So I should definitely revel in the moment. Indeed, as you were saying, let's let's go to the highest credited on IMDb. We have Betty Gilpin, Hilary Swank, Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, but Oti kind of broke you in, like, within the first minute.

9:00Oti: You're welcome. Right?

9:01KT: Ike Barinholtz,

9:03Oti: fan fan fave. Yep. If there ever was an Ike.

9:07KT: Except for South Park. Right? Yeah. Is he Canadian? He might be Canadian. Looks Canadian. And your your your foundational knowledge is based off South Park. Right? Yep. Alright. If you if you know, then you know friends and lovers. And we've got a whole slew of characters. A lot of them are just for gratuitous ends, which is fine. We're all about gratuity. If you've listened to like zero point five seconds of the For Your Reference podcast, we are quite partial to all of the nasty.

9:41KT: So let's talk about it. Let's start off with first impressions Oti. I think even just to give accolades to Lindelof, you can mention your experience with Lost, maybe not too much because then it will get a bit too far fetched. And then we can talk about the film. Did you hear about it? Did you lead up to it? Whether you wanted to get your $20 back or not is a story for another day.

10:09Oti: Cool. So there's been I I read about the controversy around this film as to how it was targeting supposedly and allegedly conservatives or people who are leaning towards the right side of things. Yep. And, you know, it it got canceled. It got pushed back. And once the director thought or the studio thought, oh, we gotta release it. I said, okay. I'm just gonna watch it, see what the hoo is about. Okay. And I could see why people were kind of

10:45Oti: worried sort of about it. Even though they're saying this movie is just meant for fun. This is just a fun movie. Doesn't draw anything from reality, which is shit all because everything we do is drawn from something.

11:02KT: No. But it it's also like dragons didn't represent conservatives. They literally had conservatives and liberals. So to say that it didn't have any sort of grounding, there wasn't any sort of meta referencing, I think it kind of makes it seem disingenuous at that point. Let's go to Lost. Let's talk about Lost and your first impressions and if you did or if you didn't love Lost and how that might have translated or if it didn't.

11:30Oti: So I I enjoyed Lost when it came up. I binged the hell out of it. And the fact that well, it is safe to say that I tried we tried rewatching Lost

12:00KT: I don't know. Maybe not okay ten years ago. Pacing is not okay today.

12:05Oti: When Lost came out back then, it was groundbreaking in terms of its theatrical quality.

12:11KT: Yeah. But it can still have, like, issues That with

12:15Oti: was that was something really new, something like we've never seen on TV before. Right now, we have things that have super huge budgets, looks way better, crispier, and, you know, it felt new at the time, and you maybe maybe I paid it too much credence than than it it it was meant to. But I loved Lost. I watched Lost, I think, the first three seasons and then I dropped off. And I watched the last season. I know people don't you know, I'm not a true Lost fan then. Okay.

12:50Oti: Sue me. It just became quite ridiculous. But I did love it at the time. And in relation to this movie, I really didn't see any sort of comparisons to it.

12:50KT: Not the fact that they're on a plane going to a mysterious place?

12:50Oti: Not really. Like that could be lifted from because it's not really million another source of

13:09KT: It's really a spoiler because I didn't get far in Lost. And I think the difference in the equation was I was watching it with you. That's probably why we haven't continued. There was a mysterious power that was controlling the island and don't worry kids that happened like quite early in the first season. So I don't think that's the big crescendo for Lost. So there are some sort of parallels Not like

13:39KT: with other people where they're all one note and they do the same thing. Trademark, not to us. No? No. One note didn't land for you? No, it didn't. Know your people. We are the geeks of the we are sitting in the damp corner of the podcast world.

14:00Oti: But yeah. I guess the only reason why I wanted to bring up Lost is because this is Lindelof, and I I I don't really follow his stuff. So I didn't really know what he's done since Lost. So I was just I just wanted to bring up the top. Like, I get it. I get it. There'll always be comparisons just because he did Lost and there's a plane involved and there's this mysterious Athena and all that mysterious Athena could be equated to the mysterious mysteries of the jungle and all not. But far out, man. I I did not see any sort of parallels with this. I just took it as what it was

14:34Oti: on sort of kind of face value. Okay. And it was it was it was watchable. If if there was a move like, we've watched a lot of duds recently. Oh, yes. This is not. Uh-huh. But it is watchable. You you you depending on which side or or the scale you're leaning, it doesn't really matter because they kinda try to be partial in you.

14:34KT: When does your scale lean, Oti?

14:34Oti: Oh, it lives on both sides.

15:03KT: It's like a pendulum mate. I know. I heard you talk about Aldis and the Invisible Man.

15:09Oti: But wow. Yeah. It's it's it's it's possible. Like, you're not gonna give it any sort of a while. So you weren't so your expectations weren't high. Like, you're just gonna watch it. Whatever's there is there. Yeah. And and if it wasn't if it wasn't for the sort of controversy around it, I'm not sure it would have come to my radar at all to watch it. Oh, okay. Yeah. Which is something. Alright?

15:33KT: No. I think it's very meta. I think it ties in nicely with the themes Yeah. Of this particular movie. My first impressions, I never watched Lost. I recently tried to watch it. We all heard how that went quite a few minutes ago. It was okay. It was okay. And there's nothing wrong with okay. Especially now that we're spending more time indoors, you don't need or want to have a masterpiece every time you sit down to watch something. No. Because it's not going to

16:12KT: Well, you're not gonna be able to digest it and you're not going to be able to fully appreciate it as much as you want to. Like I always say, put on your Barry White, grab your vintage wine and make it an event. Oh yeah. And then you can watch the garbage in between. Because at the end of the day, we're all trash. Hopefully we're trash that wash our hands and can hopefully wipe our asses, but who's to say really? Yeah. So let's get into, I guess let's just talk about the overall themes

16:43KT: of the film and then we can start diving into characters. It was interesting. I guess you could say it was playful and it was cute the way that they named a lot of these characters like Vanilla Nice, for example. But then yoga pants, Emma Roberts really. It just kind of felt like placeholders. Right. But anyway, let's get into the general themes which we've kind of touched on already. We're not American, we're not American. These are genuine non American accents that we have.

17:18Oti: Speak for yourself mate. My accent is quite American.

17:24KT: So not only is Randy Marsh Lorde, he's also a Kenyan man as well. Yeah. We're all about South Park today apparently. But let's talk about it because not even just in America, just in general, you have conservatives and you also have liberals, but obviously this is specifically to America. We're not going to say anything deliberately derogatory, but obviously we're going to talk about this film and we might even touch on, you know, the effects of mass shootings. So I guess like just a warning, just in case. But talking about like conservatives and also liberals,

18:04KT: like, yeah, I get that. I get that that can be a blueprint for who you are. But I think a lot of the time it kind of becomes like a personality or like in American sort of media, it's just like, This is Fox News. They don't know what they're talking about, which maybe they don't. But it like, just from the outside looking in, it just seems like it's very definitive of

18:28KT: you associate with this particular, like, political party and that's it. I don't need to know anything else about you. I am going to prescribe everything I assume. Oh, yeah. For sure. For sure. Which I think was done quite well through the movie if that was its intention.

18:46Oti: Which it wasn't because this movie was just purely for fun.

18:51KT: Watch any interview with Damon. I I can understand why Damon would say that though in the climate. Like, he kind of needs to be overly apologetic just to make people feel comfortable that he's not outrightly trying to attack anyone. But it's interesting to be so bold to make a film like this and then apologize for it in interviews, it seems a bit mismatched.

19:15Oti: It does seem mismatched. Sometimes I just wonder if, you know, if if if you'd have the ball to do this, then just do it. That's the problem. He had the ball, not the balls.

19:27KT: I guess you could say one of them was lost.

19:27Oti: I need to get some sun, guys. I need some fresh air.

19:27KT: You have been quarantined for too long.

19:27Oti: Well, you've been locking me in a room so I should be used to this.

19:27KT: You've been stuck in the hutch for too long.

19:46Oti: Yeah.

19:48KT: Jason Blum, please read our screenplay. But like, you know what I mean? Like, it just seems like I and you can even also say it's not just an American thing. Like people do that all the time. They assume things about you just because of one aspect of you.

20:09Oti: And Majorly just because based off how you look, you know. It's a saying. It's a saying out there. But to me, this movie sort of yes. It was fun to watch. Yes, it tried to speak to some political truths out there, which is fine. That's fine. Yeah. Like, fucking hell, mate. People have to talk about this stuff one way or another. Yep. And to see him dismiss it as if that wasn't his intent is kind of weird and I don't really care for it.

20:45KT: Like, think he was just trying to do some damage control, but I also don't like maybe he was doing damage control not for us. You know what I mean? Maybe it was effective for the people he was doing it for. Maybe so. Maybe so. Right? But yeah, definitely. I wanna talk about, and it's kind of, it's definitely peppered throughout the film, but it comes at a culmination at the end of the film. We did say spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. But we have Hilary Swank, otherwise known as Athena,

21:20KT: otherwise known as that ass.

21:25Oti: She looked great. Oh, she looks amazing.

21:27KT: And I tried, don't you worry. I couldn't find any Spanx, but I tried. But there was a very pointed sort of dialogue that she had throughout the film, but also at the end of it of her completely feeling justified in her actions. Yeah. Right? And it's like, okay, so just because you acknowledge that everyone deserves human rights, you can treat people that don't see that as like as as lesser. So it's like you understand the plight of refugees but just because people don't care about refugees, you're allowed to

22:07KT: inflict violence upon them. Like, it just it literally makes no sense.

22:12Oti: Really doesn't.

22:14KT: But she's just so puffed up in her own fumes. Yeah. And I'm sure they are delicious fumes. She just couldn't see it. She caught him. Right? And it I guess you could say it it was it was a let's let's put all of our glasses up because this is very meta and oh, how true is it to society? But also at the same time, it just felt so sharp. Know what I mean? Like you had a whole film to finesse this and it still came off as really gruff. Being

22:53KT: able to interweave key messaging into the tapestry of your narrative is a skill that I would definitely attribute to Lindelof. Execution, not so much. Come and fight me Lindelofers. Is that a thing?

23:11Oti: Let's see.

23:14KT: Come and fight me, Lindelofers. But it's just it felt very elementary and not the good Lucy Liu Elementary. It just felt like, I don't know. I felt like it could have been done in a more integrated sort of way. Even at the end of the film, it was such a shock to her that Crystal read Animal Farm. Who the fuck on the read Animal Farm? No. But you know what I mean? It's like it's unless they were purposely trying to say extremists, whether it's conservative or liberals, they completely disregard the other side.

23:57KT: Because do you like, do you really like because you know how people say things, but they don't really mean it. It seems like she genuinely believed that anyone that wasn't in her elite sort of circles were dumb and didn't read. Really? Millions and millions of people because she's in the minority in regards to like social class and fortune. Right? Yeah. It's I think maybe if they played it from the point of view of like, she's just rich and she wants to fuck shit up. I think that would have been executed a lot better.

24:32KT: But because she operated with a disordered sense of justice, it continued to become distorted to the point where everything that she stood for, she was going back on essentially.

24:48Oti: Yeah. She pretty much did the opposite of what she was for. Like, do you really think we could kill humans in a manor? I don't even have a fucking manor. And yet

25:01KT: It's all semantics.

25:02Oti: She did exactly that.

25:04KT: Like, it's all semantics really. Because even when she was talking about how it's not a manor and she renovated it and all this sort of shit, which I could say there are layers of like gentrification there if you want as well. She was not getting it. Like whatever you wanna call it, it is what it is. Right? And that's exactly what Crystal was saying. And Athena was like, no, you made me do this. Mate, you fucking orchestrated this and you've been training for eight months. She didn't make you do anything.

25:37KT: You know what I mean? And it just I felt like it could have been executed much better.

25:43Oti: True. And the fact that she held this grudge for eight months, you know, usually, you feel pissed after a day or so, it's all subsided, you move on. But eight bloody months.

25:59KT: I've got some grudges, Oti, and they are many years brewing. Come and girdle my loins and you'll find out.

26:08Oti: That'll just wait. Well, how many more years till they just bust out?

26:14KT: Do you want a vintage girdle?

26:16Oti: Yeah. That's the best kind.

26:18KT: The loinage For Your Reference. But yeah, again, like I think a lot of the qualms that I have with this film really came at a culmination at the end of it. So that's kind of why I wanted to skip forward and talk about those scenes because I feel like there's no excuse now. Like we've talked about it before, there are Black Mirrors, there's Inside No. 9, you have TV shows, anthology series that can perfectly capsulate a narrative in twenty minutes, sometimes forty. Right? So the fact that you get a whole film

26:59KT: to breathe and live in that space and to have really pointed language of, oh, poor people read. Like, really? Like, what was all this for? A lot of my enjoyment in this film was just watching Crystal.

27:18Oti: Oh, yeah. Betty really makes this movie. She really does. Yeah. Her whole demeanor, her whole attitude. Like, when you started watching this and there was, like, a string of characters that we knew recognized from other shows, We had the Disassed guy. Uh-huh. We had Ike. You know, it was all fun and games. Even Emma Roberts and, you know, oh, yeah. We've seen them. And then they all get killed and you're like, oh, okay. Okay. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. They're all dead. Who's gonna lead this? Yeah.

27:52KT: And then Or who can I care about?

27:55Oti: In steps Crystal. Yeah. And bloody hell does she make this movie. Oh, yes. Her whole sort of attitude and the way she carries this, it's like you're watching it from it's like her attitude is sort of the audience's attitude as well to this. Yeah. Like, what the fuck is going on? Mhmm. You really don't care about a lot of the things and then you see this little the sort of interaction she has with the with with the fellow characters in there and my god. She's amazing. She's brilliant.

28:30Oti: And I think that's why GLOW is so big. Bloody hell, found a gem.

28:38KT: Definitely. Yeah, definitely in regards to this, because like you said, killing happened from the start. So there wasn't any buildup, there wasn't any sort of emotional investment until Crystal came along. Right? And where the story or the narrative or the overarching vision failed, Crystal made up for it a 100,000,000 fold. I also liked hearing her accent. Is that like a southern accent? She had a bit of a twang. I really enjoyed that. As soon as she got the change for the cigarettes And she was like, cigarettes only cost $6 in Mississippi, bitch.

29:24Oti: I think Aaron Paul turned up. In Arkansas. Oh, Mississippi. Anyway, can't remember. Oh, good on you. You're welcome. Because that that that just stopped momentum. That didn't help anything at all. Well, let me pick momentum up and say, you really did notice your boobs, didn't you?

29:43KT: Yeah. But you can't just throw a tittie at me and distract me. Maybe throw two. But Right? When she came out of that gas station in particular with that scene and she was standing in the door frame, like someone someone left the the airbags inflated. Yeah. She looked I like a watched two scenes later when she did a tumble and they weren't there anymore. It seemed like a what?

30:14Oti: Christina Hendricks? Is that her name? Yeah.

30:18KT: Milky jugs. Oh. Like, I feel like heaven is Christina Hendricks and being able to lay on her milky bosoms. Oh, wow. You brought this up. I did. I don't know why. Well, now I'm just distracted. And this whole podcast is evidence that I am going to heaven. So I will be very disappointed if Christina Hendricks isn't there.

30:46Oti: Cool. Yep. I'd I'd take a heaven with Christina Hendricks and you there.

30:49KT: No. Again, this podcast is evidence that you're not going

30:49Oti: I'd take a hell with Christina Hendricks right there.

30:49KT: Actually, think that's a better aesthetic for her, isn't it? But going back to Crystal, see, when Oti doesn't have anything poignant to say, titties. Titties. Some skinny people have big titties, but I'm not gonna comment on that today. That's all I'm gonna say. But I really enjoyed seeing her character through this. We talk about this a lot on our podcast, specifically on The Boys episode. We talk about protagonists

31:34KT: being entered into a world, accepting that world and accepting the role that they will play in that world. And Crystal did that perfectly.

31:44Oti: She really did, yeah. Like,

31:47KT: she didn't need to ask questions. She had a very great instinct and it was delicioso. Lindelof and Nick also said the final scene between her and Hilary Swank, they wanted it to be John Wick-esque. Oh. Yeah. So shout out to Chad Stahelski, the stuntman for Keanu on The Matrix and also the director of John Wick because it it wasn't as slick, but the action scenes were very interesting. They're very cup captivating. And You mean cup devating?

32:25Oti: Yes. It really was. And I think one of the things that Betty or Crystal did well in this is in the exposition factor and taking us along those sort of journey, and the kudos to the director, I guess, more so than Crystal. Mhmm. Is when she's walking and she like, we were, like, wondering what the hell is going on, but you can see

32:51Oti: a light tinkering in her eyes and us seeing things that we couldn't see. Mhmm. Her just noticing little things, and you're like, okay. Darling, what's happening? What's happening? What's going on? What's going on? Because because because we couldn't understand, and it's all sort of explained or laid out quite well after the fact. Mhmm. The only sort of flashback, would it would it be a flashback? Which part? When they One year earlier? Yeah. When That was a flashback. Yeah. When they showed us how Athena got into this stage.

33:24KT: It was to create emotional tension. Because if she just turned up at the house to fight Athena, it wouldn't have as high stakes. True. And it also revealed that she orchestrated this because people were bullying me online, so I'm going to kill them all. Yeah. A very measured response. A very measured.

33:46Oti: Jesus. A very measured response and how they placed it and how they did it. I'm not a really big fan of flashbacks, but they still didn't bother me.

33:58KT: Well, they didn't overuse it, but it definitely felt like a writing crutch. It's like, oh, shit. We need to establish that this moment is pivotal, and we need to explain why. And I think And they could've no. But they could've done that throughout. It kinda felt like, you know, we've been sitting in this writer's room for too long. Let's just shove it in here. And then let's write the story.

33:58Oti: It didn't feel like that to me. It felt it felt very calculated.

34:24Oti: It felt like, okay. We've enjoyed three quarters of the movie. Mhmm. Now what what what now for Crystal? Because at the end of it, she's pretty much defeated everyone. Yep. And then there's this voice in the inner com and you're like, who the fuck is this woman? Uh-huh. And the soldier or the consultant that Crystal just killed was like, you've won. Just go. It's the end. Like, did he love Athena? Why did he why didn't he just give it up? They didn't even explain it. She just said he just said that he owed her,

34:57Oti: which fair enough. Don't really need to know the details. No.

35:02KT: They can't tell us If I'm on my deathbed, I am I am exposing everybody. Nobody's safe, mate.

35:11Oti: But I think I enjoyed the fact that it took them three quarters of the movie to sort of tie in together what sort of happened or the reason why this is occurring.

35:24KT: No, I felt like they could have done it at the start. It's bothersome to me. If you have to chip chop all the chops in order to create that buildup and that tension and that excitement, then perhaps dear writer friend and lover, maybe it wasn't that great.

35:43Oti: I guess I'm just conned because I sat through FlashForward.

35:48KT: It's a it's a gigs? TV

35:50Oti: No. It's a TV show that came out a while back and far out, man. It pissed me there right off. So any sort of flashback or flash forwards Uh-huh. That are done nicely or sparingly properly, I'm all for it. But this isn't even in the genre. This is just a flashback. Yeah. It's just a flashback. And it doesn't get overused at all. It it doesn't get overused, but it's used properly. It's it's used at a right time when we were wondering as an audience what the fuck is going to be next.

36:25KT: Personally, I wasn't wondering what was going to be next because I had already given up on the hope of sinking my teeth into the story. I was just there to follow Crystal and see what she was going to do. But it's staying true to the name of the movie in it being The Hunt. Well, way, it would have been The Hunt, but I'm saying as as as a story and as, you know, sort of key messaging, sort of themes,

36:51KT: I kind of gave up on it being anything more than one dimension. Fair enough. That's what I'm saying. So I didn't really care that, oh, this was the catalyst for Hilary Swank to create her swank bank, so to say. So I didn't really care because I was already in because of Crystal and that's all I cared about at the time. Let's talk because you're talking about reveals and getting us interested and that sort of thing. We didn't really get to see Hilary Swank until like the very end. I

37:25KT: think there are times where you have reveals in films or TV shows and it is worth the buildup. But then you play a precarious game of taking too long. And I felt like this movie did it.

37:40Oti: Oh, you reckon?

37:42KT: Like what were they trying to invoke in us? It just got annoying. It felt like there's a Dexter's Laboratory where you don't see the humans, you only see their legs. The adults.

37:53Oti: Cow and Chicken.

37:55KT: And Dexter's Laboratory.

37:55Oti: No, we get to see Dexter's parents.

37:55KT: Oh, do we get to see Dexter's dd's? Yeah. Dexter's and dd's.

38:04Oti: It's Cow and Chicken where we don't get to see their parents.

38:07KT: Oh, okay.

38:07Oti: It's ridiculous how I know that right now.

38:07KT: No. There are more ridiculous things even in this episode you revealed. You're not allowed in my Christina Hendricks heaven or hell.

38:22Oti: But

38:24KT: I think they took too long. Like it doesn't matter how big the star is. You literally went over an hour before showing her face.

38:33Oti: Yeah. I didn't really care for that. And the whole sort of face reveal where they just showed the back of her head in the interview or in the meeting. Sorry. I don't care for that shit. No. It can be effective.

38:48KT: No. To me, it wasn't effective. People keep distorting my Pedro Pascal. And I wanna see Pedro Pascal. I was hoping Athena would be Pedro Pascal. And when it wasn't, I got pissed off.

39:01Oti: I don't know. I don't really care for such things. I just look. No one's face is gonna make me be like, oh my god. What's going on? It can't be her. Like, just just show me. Just show the face. Yeah. It's not gonna change unless her face has some sort of bloody message about the movie or some secret coded, you know, I I don't know. Watch something else. Yeah. Then just show the bloody face. It doesn't build anything. It's it's so suspenseful. It's just lazy.

39:36KT: So let's talk about these elitists. So we have Athena, we have someone credited as the doctor and we I don't really let's not go through the names. We'll just describe the characters as they are. There was the character that was a woman that named the pig Orson.

39:57Oti: Yep.

39:59KT: What did you think about these sort of characters in general?

40:03Oti: Think they were to represent a sort of super elitist in society.

40:06KT: But I was surprised though there's so many old people in the liberal sphere.

40:14Oti: There are quite a few young people in there.

40:14KT: No. But I'm saying like the gas station people.

40:20KT: Yeah. Were there?

40:22Oti: Yeah. Well, apparently you can say black now.

40:27KT: Have you listened to the podcast? We've said it a lot.

40:31Oti: Yeah. I've been rolling my eyes at you until I gave you permission to say that.

40:31KT: Because they planted the seed at the start of the film that there was a joke

40:41KT: about people being killed for sport. Right? And then later on in the film, we find out that they didn't actually, which I guess you could attribute to like online viral sensationalism. Like eating Tide Pods, for example, just like stupid shit. And then eventually it becomes real. Like it's, again, it wasn't dragons and dragon titties. It was literally conservatives and liberals living in the human world. So it's hard not to say that it isn't when it looks, smells and fucks like it is.

41:26Oti: Yep.

41:28KT: And if you ever needed a For Your Reference tagline, there you go. But it was interesting. It was interesting to see the interplay. I think it could have been done a lot better. I think it could have been done a lot more effectively, but who are we Oti?

41:48Oti: Are we? Oti Lindelof. Nah, get lost.

41:54KT: You get lost. Speaking of get, I think if they had changed as much as I love and we all love Hilary Swank, the dad in Get Out, he should have run free reign in his manor. I would have believed that way more.

42:15Oti: Yeah. Yeah.

42:17KT: True. I would have believed that. I don't buy Hilary Swank as a villain though. She looks a bit too goody two shoes doesn't she? Do you think that's why they covered her face? Like they didn't reveal her until the end or do you think it was more star power?

42:33Oti: Definitely more star power.

42:34KT: Because I don't I don't buy her as an a villain at all.

42:34Oti: No. Not really. I don't buy her as a villain either.

42:41Oti: But, you know, she does she is a wonderful actress and she did do this beautifully. I reckon her the fights in like, the action scene was really good. Oh, yeah. It was really good because at the end of the day, they said they were here to entertain, they were here to make fun and that was fun to watch. Even them fighting and, you know, taking breaks in between and being like, oh, not the glass again and opening the door. Like, you have this sort of quacky comedic effects in there. Bloody hell. Who who who's

43:19Oti: who who hurt you?

43:22KT: You won't and that's the problem. Choke me, Oti, one more time. No. Because it's like she's like, don't throw me into the glass, but I'll grab a shotgun and shoot you. Yeah. That was a cheap shot. Yeah. You don't bring a shotgun to a glass fight. M. Night Shyamalan knows all too well. Oh, wow. I don't think we've covered M. Night Shyamalan yet.

43:47Oti: Oh.

43:49KT: Maybe we'll do a Last Airbender solo. I think we need to. Times are rough. Yeah. People need to hear that. Yeah. They don't need to watch it again. Soccer.

44:00Oti: Aye aye. Aye Aye.

44:04KT: Aye.

44:13Oti: So just dividing for a bit like we were in dividing anyway. Right. In Kenya, they used to have their cinemas outside, like in an open air sort of market. They'd have a TV stand on the field. Open air just means the fuck outside. They'd have a TV outside, and there'll be someone there translating the movie as they as as people watched direct to Swahili. It was one of the most Oh, translating? Translating. Oh my god. Pretty much commenting commentary commentating commentating on the movie.

44:51KT: We saw that in the series Little America. And I think it was a tale in Nigeria.

44:59Oti: Yeah. And if you do understand English as I did at the time, it makes sense.

44:59KT: And how do you understand it now?

44:59Oti: Just a little less after meeting you with your bogusness.

45:11KT: Oh my.

45:15Oti: It it really does make quite a watching. It kind of elevates the experience a bit. Okay. So everyone should just find someone and commentate on a movie.

45:30KT: Nice. Great plug. You're starting a new service?

45:37Oti: Yep. Yep. I am. But but it was it's fun watching. Yeah. It was fun. It had really good aspects in it that I think you could see some of Lindelof's workings, which was surprising because I didn't know he he was involved in this. I'm kind of just let directors' names just pass me by most of the time. Uh-huh. But in retrospect, you kind of see his work and you can start sort of see how he writes and his behaviors and which is good to see anyway. But yeah. Enjoyable nonetheless.

46:17KT: What did what did you think about, well, I guess just starting to sense that maybe this was bigger than what it is. Because at the time, at the start of the film, you're kind of being given an inkling that these lambs are being led to the slaughter. So we kind of already know that's happening, but the interesting sort of component we have is starting to see the characters know that they're a part of a game.

46:48Oti: Yep.

46:49KT: Right? So when where did you start to see that happening for you?

46:56Oti: Oh, pretty as soon as the guy who opened the crate.

47:01KT: Oh, you knew, like, from there that they knew?

47:05Oti: Yeah. Because they're given guns and they start being shot at and killed indiscriminately. At that point, it's pretty much tell all for everyone. Mhmm. Ask the audience and them as characters.

47:16KT: Interesting.

47:18Oti: What was your take on that?

47:18KT: Well, I think if we didn't know what we knew,

47:25KT: I would have arrived at it when they jumped over the fence because this is we know at this point that this is a blood sport. Right? So we knew that they were destined to kill each other or be killed. But the fact that they could just jump over that fence, it was way too easy. Yeah. There was no giant cement wall. And I was like, this is to give them that false hope. So when they got to that gas station, I knew that those

47:56KT: it kind of threw me off though because they were like old people and mostly old people. Okay, boomer.

48:03KT: In my best Adam Driver voice.

48:03Oti: Represent some sort of safety. Like you can let your guard down.

48:08KT: We just activated our AI and I felt a little Blumhouse moment. Read our screenplay, Jason.

48:18Oti: Stay up.

48:20KT: Jason Staphims, Jason Stacombs. Oh, yeah. Hey, more SNL references.

48:29Oti: But well, yeah. True. Like, old people represent some sort of safety. Like, you can put your guard down because you usually just want to assume old people are nice. Yeah.

48:42KT: Okay, Hansel. It was nice knowing you. Well,

48:48Oti: Oh, Candy.

48:54KT: Yeah. But so when they're at the gas station and, like, that old couple was there, I'm like, oh, this is all a part of the game. And then when Ike tried to call 911, that is not a fucking 911 call.

49:05Oti: He you could tell that he realized something was off, but he played it off probably.

49:11KT: But it was already too late at that point. It was too late. Well,

49:15Oti: kind of because the old Hippolytians started pointing guns at them yet. But you could tell there was something. That call was really ominous and ridiculously weird to be a police call. And the fact that he just let it slide, that was the end of him.

49:36KT: Yeah. But I think we started to abandon any sort of hope we had for the characters we saw sticking around. Yeah. Because it was just for effect really. And The Hunt kind of felt like what Zombieland would have been without Jesse Eisenberg. It would have been very effective and everyone would have survived.

49:58Oti: You know what was one of my favorite scenes? It was to do with the guy who was they partnered up with Crystal at the start and then they jumped into a train and they saw immigrants there.

50:13KT: Yeah. He's he's credited as shut the fuck up, Gary. Shut up. Shut the fuck up, Gary.

50:21Oti: These are crisis. These are crisis what do crisis people? Crisis actors.

50:27KT: Crisis actors. And he said that they were crisis babies as well. Oh, that made me chuckle. It was It pretty it was really good. But he was on the money though.

50:38Oti: Oh, he was spot on it. Spot on it. That's a Wire reference. And and the fact oh my god. He put a grenade down his pants. Yeah. What a way to go.

50:49KT: Again, acknowledge, accept the world and the role you play in it.

50:50Oti: Why did he try and pull it out of his dick? Why not just take your fucking pants out and run?

50:58KT: Well, that might be your default because I've trained you.

51:03Oti: My Oti Pavlov. In time of trouble, take your pants out and run.

51:09KT: We are revealing a lot today. Yep.

51:12Oti: What a border to live by. Right?

51:16KT: Interesting, interesting, interesting, interesting. It was enough. There wasn't as much depth as I would have wanted in a film, but there were enough elements for me to enjoy the world that encapsulated it.

51:34Oti: Oh, for sure. For sure.

51:38KT: I felt like it's a shame that, you know, there was It's a shame that this movie got tousled with real world events as well because I actually would have wanted to hear a dialogue from Lindelof in regards to his thoughts because he created this as his world. So it would have been nice to hear his thoughts in regards to his messaging because it does become a bit wiry. It becomes a bit Us. I love you Jordan Peele, but you know what you did or didn't do. It becomes a bit

52:20KT: The messaging becomes blunt because they're all being frayed in different directions essentially. And what I mean by that is, you know, there's a there's a liberal, so you have Athena's character and she is out on a hunt for not all conservatives, but that's definitely the vibrato that you hear in this film that they deserve it because they're ignorant. Right? And again, we're just talking about the realms of the film. So I guess from that point of view, she's kind of painted as a villain. Because if you have any sort of emotional resonance with Crystal,

53:01KT: you kind of have to, or it's kind of easy to see that she's the mustache twirling villain in all of this.

53:09Oti: Right? She's definitely the antagonist.

53:12KT: But then also at the same time, not through Crystal specifically, but through the characters that she interacts with that are on in quotes, her side, they would make comments for us to know that they are the type of conservatives that say shitty things, especially behind a keyboard. Yep. So it's hard to know where the morality lies. You know what I'm saying? And if we're saying that it's nuanced and life is complex and the humanity can lie within both sides, then the narrative that was offered in this film wasn't steeped in enough depth. Right?

54:03KT: It kept the tea bag in for thirty seconds when it should have done it for five minutes. We love our tea. That's, I guess that's all I'm saying in regards to the film. You have like the good and the bad, but then the bad is kind of good as well. Because we saw Crystal's character and by all appearances, she's just there minding a business. She served in the war. She went through some shit, but she was there for survival. She

54:36KT: also had humanity about her because when we came across the crisis actors she still saved the lady and the kid. That was her first literal instinct of protecting them. So I guess you could say that there are morsels that you can pick up in regards to dual sort of morality, but it's not complex enough in order to convey that if that is the case for the messaging.

55:10Oti: Yeah. I see your point. I see your point. And the fact that of at least what I thought he's trying to get at is, as you said, the duality of it in terms of whichever side your sort of policies lie, at the end of the day, we're all humans. We all look after each other in terms of need. We all go through a lot of the shit things that we go through. Mhmm. But it it was just interesting to see how

55:39Oti: he he, like, tried or at least I think he tried to make a sort of not know where our allegiances are while watching this if you're rooting for this side or the other side.

55:51KT: So he's serving both masters then?

55:55Oti: He served one master less though.

55:58KT: But it you know what I mean? When you try to pander to both, it just waters down everything.

56:05Oti: Agreed. Agreed. And the fact that I think if this was completely told from the sort of Athena side of things, it would have caused a big uproar.

56:19KT: Oh, yes. But that's what I'm saying. It's like, it's told from Crystal's point of view, but Athena's the right one. But then she's not the right one because it doesn't justify what she's doing. And oh, I can't remember. It might've been No, it was the girl that was doing the arrows when, Crystal was asking the guy, I think his name was Don.

56:46KT: You know, you wanted to ask him a question, what question do you want to ask? And he said, why are you doing this? And the girl that was obviously going to die said, Jesus told me to do it. In wistfulness, say, hail Satan. But also at the same time, like whether someone's religious or not to just throw that back in a religious person's face, it's uncouth to me. Religion is religion. What you believe is what you believe. But just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean you throw it in their face.

57:29KT: Even though obviously religion as an institution is something that maybe we'll tackle in a Patreon sort of episode, maybe sooner if we go a bit stir crazy. But I didn't care for that. Like, it just felt like you have executed it better. That's all I'm gonna say. Let's end with befuddlement at the end of the film where Crystal was talking a real good talk. Right? You have Athena. Oh, nobody knows that a bread knife is the perfect knife for cutting tomatoes. And then she had a little grilled cheese talking about all of her bullshit

58:12KT: giving line for line Crystal's life. And Crystal's like, I didn't wanna mess up your perfect grilled cheese speech, but you've actually got the wrong Crystal May Creasey. Yeah. What do you think? Because obviously it doesn't matter because it was effective in disorienting Athena because according to her, everything she did was justified. And we've talked about this in quite a few podcast episode. Even if you think you're doing the right thing, operating in any sense of justice and it will always be distorted if you're operating off your own volition, that is dangerous.

58:49KT: It is really dangerous. Because you lose sense of what's right and you do what's your right. So going back to the initial question, do you think that that was Crystal? That she that Athena pegged down the right Crystal?

59:06Oti: Yeah. I think she pegged down the right Crystal. Okay.

59:11KT: End of.

59:13Oti: No. Like she I think she just said that to unsettle her completely because It was effective. Because Athena thought she had everything pegged down. She she dotted her i's and she crossed her t's. Exactly. And and Crystal knowing, she's a trained she's she's trained in military tactics and all. Yeah. And one of those is psychological warfare. So of course, she's going to unsettle the enemy and that's one thing you could do quite easily. Mhmm. And then she starts doubting herself, she becomes easy and she starts making mistakes.

59:48Oti: Yep. And even at the end when she's dying and she's like Tell me. Just tell me. Tell me.

59:56KT: It's not worth fighting for.

59:59Oti: Okay, Katie Adams. It's but wow. Yeah. I think she is the Crystal May that Athena tracked down. She just couldn't give her the satisfaction.

60:15KT: I believe that too. Yeah. And a lot of things in the story points to, if you feel this way, you can pull things from what happened in the movie. Her not picking up on her military background is a way to pick up on the fact that it wasn't a real Crystal, but also spending time in Crystal in this world, it seems like she did what was necessary. She had the instinct about that guy in the car, the one that kind of looked like Matthew Broderick if you couldn't afford him

60:48KT: and like kicked him out of the car and like ran over his head 10 times. So she has an instinct about her and like you said, she knows military tactics and she knows what needs to get done. But it was interesting. It was interesting to see Athena get unnerved by that. Yeah. If only bosses in games were that effective. But there you go. There's another week in the For Your Reference household. Know, grab yourself a snack. If you're like me, I've already had a snack. Gonna get a post snack. Gonna get all the snacks.

61:26KT: We're going to finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference. Oti.

61:31Oti: I am just gonna go for the low hanging fruit and you should watch Lost. It's the first two seasons are amazing.

61:42KT: How many seasons?

61:45Oti: The first two seasons are amazing. If you can hang in there, you'll you'll really enjoy it. And if you can go beyond that fair play to you, you're a bigger man than I am.

61:45KT: No one is a bigger man than you, sir.

62:00KT: Maybe

62:02Oti: me. Oh, we just covered a movie about being PC and all. I should say you're a bigger person than I am.

62:14KT: Too late. We've got it on tape.

62:19Oti: Get the tape back.

62:21KT: Or you're a bigger species than we are. You would have heard Theo in the background. I will reference The Purge because like I've said in many of our episodes, the first one was great. It kinda, it definitely kind of maybe definitely milked it for all it's worth, But the concept of it was great. I also felt like watching The Hunt, it didn't feel original. Like it's something we've watched already, but everyone all for themselves definitely watch at least the first

63:00KT: Not there is one called The First Purge, but I'm talking about the first one chronologically that came out. Don't come and fight me if you watch that First Purge. But there you have it, friends and lovers. And kids, if you're quarantined. I don't all blessings and all hail Satans go out to you and handling your kids at this time. On Twitter and Instagram, we are @ForYourRefPod. You can write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.