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- May 12, 2020
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Full transcript of The Godfather – Till the break of Don.
KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household. And you know what, Oti? There have been quite a few phrases since we've started this podcast. Quite a lot of proverbs that a 100% for you are questionable in nature. And there's only so much wisdom Oti can impart on all of us. Again, whether it's genuine is a story for another day.
Oti: Spread my wisdom seed quite well. Thank you very much.
KT: Damn, Doug. Well, that is not gonna be the new segment. I think it'll be cute to guess what character
KT: that you're thinking of. So it can be a whole slew of categories, you know, who was the best, who who shined the most, you know, who had the least character development. But for the first iteration of this segment, I am going to guess who you believe deserved more time in the Godfather trilogy. Oh. Yeah. So they didn't get enough screen time. Mhmm. Okay. So let's do this on the count of three. One, two, three. Sonny. Motherfucking oaf. Yep. And with this synchronicity, let's get on with the show.
KT: Ciao, friends and lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You have your host, KT.
Oti: And Oti.
KT: And don't touch those foreshadowing oranges because we're referencing an offer you can't refuse.
Oti: Alright, Don KT.
KT: With the Godfather trilogy this week, I think I undid the whole legacy in that one. Well, yeah, give it a go, Oti. No. No. No. You did quite alright. You're just gonna is this the cannoli I die on? Let's leave Marlon Brando's legacy intact. And may he forever rest in the most love. Let's start off the way we always start off in our stats. So this is a trilogy, could have just stayed as a duology. That was a terrible way to but phrase the
KT: it was much better than the third film. Ayo, come and fight me friends and lovers. So I'm just going to quickly go through the stats and then we can get into our first impressions and I guess talk through each movie and it all kind of congeals together in a delicious reference special. Mhmm. So the first, The Godfather, as some of our learned pull your learned glasses up if you've read the novel. It was adapted from the novel by Mario Puzo, directed by Francis Ford Coppola.
Oti: Coppola.
KT: It has to be said. You just have to put that, you know, that extra seasoning on there. The first film came out in 1972, had a budget of 6,000,000,
KT: which
KT: is a lot more than Paramount thought it was going to allocate. They wanted to have a really low scale budget and then that got completely turned around. So from $6,000,000 worldwide gross in 1972, dollars $246,000,000. That is a pretty penny even by today's standards. That is massive. The next Godfather film, obviously named two, came out in 1974. Two years later, the budget was $13,000,000 and it grossed $48,000,000.
Oti: Alright. Alright. I can Interesting. See
KT: We will go into first impressions, but I always hear people talking about the second one being better than the first. So it's interesting that the box office doesn't reflect that. Right? And then we come to the monstrosity, sorry, the third installment of the Godfather series that came out how was my maths going? Eighteen years later? Yeah. Sixteen.
Oti: Sixteen years later. I lent you my abacus so you should be alright. Well, way, you shouldn't be looking at the mote.
KT: Let's put it that way. The budget is $54,000,000 and it grossed a 136,000,000. Alright. Yeah. I guess because, you know, if you were a fan, you would go and watch it anyway. Yeah. After sixteen years, you just go in there to see what Whether you stayed for whether you stayed for the whole film, I guess, is a story for another day. Actors, they kind of follow through the whole trilogy. So we have Marlon Brando as Don Vito Corleone. We have Al Pacino as Michael Corleone. We have James Caan as Santino, otherwise known as Sonny.
KT: In the second film, we see an introduction to Robert De Niro. Yeah. Oh. Wow. You are lucky young De Niro wasn't around when I met you, Oti. Wow. He had a face that would betray your mother. I tell you. Also credits to Diane Keaton, who I didn't even realize that was her as Kay. Yeah. Actually. Right? Right? Not to the not to the extent of Morgan Freeman.
KT: Like, you know, like, as long as you knew Morgan Freeman, he was old. Like, Diane Keaton was definitely young when I first saw her, but I don't remember her looking that young. Baby Keaton. A baby Keaton. And then I also wanna give credit to Robert Duvall who plays Tom Hagen. Solid character. And then if we talk about introducing in the third Godfather, have Andy Garcia playing Vincent Mancini. Mhmm. What a character. And also Joe Mantegna playing Joey Zasa. Yeah. Rossi from Criminal Minds. And he also plays a mobster on The Simpsons
KT: Yeah. As well. So there you go. Those are the stats for the Godfather series. Welcome, welcome, welcome. If this is the first time you're joining us on the For Reference podcast, we take kind lady or kind around her. And if it's, you know, however many you're listening to for your reference, we fucking love you. Feel free to sploosh yourself in our vomitorium. I think I'm mixing histories right now. You are. Before it derails any further, let's continue to our first impressions. Also, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. I did say foreshadowing oranges.
KT: But then again, if you haven't watched Godfather, that won't mean anything. So let's get into first impressions, Oti. This is the first sort of Italian American gangster mafia, all the other words that we're covering on the For Your Reference podcast. Yeah. So not just Godfather, feel free to capture, like, was it was this genre even big in Kenya? How many times have you watched The Godfather? And has it changed now that we've recently finished the trilogy?
Oti: It was definitely big in Kenya because hello, it's The Godfather.
KT: Alright.
Oti: Despite some of the off color comments about darker skinned people, it it was it was big. I think this is the second time watching it with you, so everything for the trilogy, this is my second time of it. I'm not sure. I think when we met, I wanted to always just get you to watch The Godfather. And it took such a long time because it wasn't either the right time or we were busy doing other things. And finally, now with all the stuff going around, we've been able to just sit down and binge complete
Oti: trilogy, which was just bloody amazing.
KT: What do you think like sorry, just to interject for a second. What do you think felt longer? Because these are essentially if you average them out, they're about three ish hours a piece. And that's kind of the same as Lord of the Rings. Yeah. What felt longer?
Oti: Oh. I'm going to upset a lot of people. I don't know. I think oh. I'm
Oti: not talking about Hobbit because we don't acknowledge that. No. We we don't we don't talk about Hobbit. I think We love you, Martin Freeman, but we don't know. I read I I read Tolkien's books before even watching Lord of the Rings. So Lord of the Rings definitely felt shorter for me. Yikes.
Oti: Because I got my sound bite. I got my sixty minute sound bite. No. No. No. Don't get me wrong. Lord of the Rings, you have three movies which are just bloody brilliant. Uh-huh. The third one kind of falls short a bit. It's not bad by any means of imagination. It's just not as good as the first two, which it has such a good continuation between the the two that cannot be replicated at all. So the third one was always on the back foot. Regardless,
Oti: especially after what? Sixteen bloody years. So we cannot compare those in terms of how it was structured and how it was reading with Lord of the Rings because I think that's just more superior in terms of Wow. Its strength as a trilogy as a trilogy. Not not not not not the first two, not taking any substitutions or anything. As a trilogy, I think I would stand with my man, Tolkien, on this. Vafangul.
KT: I love how actually translates to do it in the ass. It is very on brand in the For Your Reference podcast. We just try to look up Doing the hand gestures as well. Yeah. You have to do the hand gestures for it to come out properly. We do have a sprinkling of Italian listeners, not as regular as our one dedicated Spanish listener, but I do apologize in whatever form of Italian we might've offended any of you. But if we said it correctly, then that's because we're part Italian. Right? Oh, for sure.
Oti: That's how they refine
KT: Does it so so it felt super iconic when you first watched it. How did it feel now?
Oti: Oh, I I I I think I got a bit more from the first two than I got when I rewatched it. And I think the third one just felt a bit more distant even though I appreciated it more now than I did before. Mhmm.
Oti: Yeah. So I I I kind of like because I watched it when I was really young, and I think it just left an impression on me because I think the first sort of movie that I watched that sort of was Italian sort of Italian well, this is very loosely Italian because it was based off Al Capone and in The Untouchables. And then I watched The Godfather, Scarface, and then I think I watched Scarface after I finished The Godfather series. Nice. And I just fell in love with with the sort of culture.
Oti: So much so the culture is so fucking rich, man. Yeah. And it's something that you you feel like it's so authentic. Maybe I'm not Vomit.
KT: It's Vomit. The vomit word of the day brought to you by Oti Corleone.
Oti: Yeah. I read some authenticity around here. But wow. Did I I just loved rewatching these movies again. And I think that maybe in a few years, we'll redo this again. It's it's what's deserved. It's definitely what's deserved.
KT: It comes as no surprise. I have not watched the Godfather trilogy, even the first Godfather. So this was a first time watch for me. But we literally set it off the right way that we should. We had a very delicious, very marbled steak, know, cooked to perfection by Oti Truly. We had the deepest, darkest, most tanninest of glass of red wine, maybe more than one glass if you're nasty. And we put on the Godfather trilogy and here we are. Yeah. It really was an event to behold. Getting into my first impressions, I will say
KT: having, you know, it's similar to like Lebowski Not not in that sense, but just that, you know, I've I've watched many byproducts or many sort of movies that pay homage to The Godfather that I kind of already understood references before I even watched the movie. That's more what I mean. Right? So I didn't expect to have depth. I didn't expect to have so much story because it was really just all the film bros like splooshing over how fucking good The Godfather is. Yeah. Right? So I really liked that there were layers. There was not
KT: necessarily nuance. There was definitely no subtlety in these films, but I really, really enjoyed it. And like I mentioned, after we watched the first Godfather, it is a pivotal cornerstone in modern cinema. Oh, for sure. We're done. For sure. Let's pack up. Let's pack up and walk to the other room because we're done, sir. Oh, but it's fucking great. I
KT: do not care for The Godfather three. I guess we'll see. We just might conveniently run out of time when it gets to the godfather three. But the godfather one and the godfather two, they are so symbiotic in nature. Anywhere where you felt like the first godfather might have lacked, if if ever, I'm not saying it did, you know, The Godfather two made up for that. And they really had this reciprocity
KT: between the two films. I really don't I I regard them as one entity, Godfather one and Godfather two.
Oti: Yes. And the the best part of it was after finishing watching Godfather
Oti: part one Mhmm. KT was like, oh, I can't believe. I just wanted I just it's great. It's a great movie, but I just wanted to know how Don Corleone got into power. I just want to know. Who is that who? And why is she in her why is she in her house? And I was just rubbing my hands, just waiting.
KT: Just your hands?
Oti: Just knowing. Okay. Okay. Stay with me. You gotta get it in tenfold.
Oti: You gotta appreciate what they do in Godfather Part two.
KT: Hey. Because If Oti and rubbing in tenfold is in the equation, I am all in, friends and lovers.
KT: But wow. How how brilliant. How brilliant. I don't think I've ever seen a sequel so strong as Godfather two. But you know what? Like, after years and years and years of the most respected friends and lovers or, you know, the most revered of cinephiles saying that Godfather two is better than Godfather one, I would say naught. Yeah. Would say naught,
Oti: The
Oti: funny thing is that was my stance before rewatching. Was my stance before rewatching the Godfather trilogy. And boy, did it change my mind. The first the part one Godfather Yeah. Was fucking amazing. It was great. It was fucking great. It was brilliant. It was bloody brilliant. And the fact that I had to, it made me rethink, it made me reanalyze my thoughts, my opinions on what I thought was superior in Godfather part two just goes to show how bloody brilliant Coppola did.
KT: And well, and I definitely feel like the Godfather trilogy.
KT: I say trilogy out of respect, but really I'm only talking about the first two. The Godfather trilogy is really
KT: it's really something you invest in. Like, if you're one of those motherfuckers that are like, I watch this show, but you're going and washing the dishes and hanging your washing, this isn't fucking for you, mate. Like, this needs your full attention, you need to immerse yourself and you know, you need to live and breathe inside of that world.
Oti: Well and and there's an argument of all the different parts of what the godfather sort of tries to portray because in the first you get, Michael Corleone is still innocent. He's not really delving to that, and he's sort of dipping into the
Oti: role his his father wants him to take over. And then by the part two, he's fully morphed into shit. And Oh, even even by the end of the Even by the like he accepted. Yeah. And and by the time by this in part two, I told you, it feels like he's not had any sort of reprieve at all. He's just been putting fires. He's going through the motions.
KT: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If it was done now, it'll just be Little Fires Everywhere. This is what Kerry Washington
KT: and and Reese Witherspoon would be doing. This isn't this this this
KT: episode is not going to age well. But
Oti: it's it's it just goes to show you that well, I think I derailed my thought a bit, but where it's a journey of how Michael goes from sort of innocence to evil, and then he's trying to sort of seek redemption in garden.
KT: If if if it's being told from their point of view and they're kind of likable, is it really evil?
Oti: It is evil because you see sort of Michael struggling
Oti: with the thoughts of ex not not everything is done. I think that can all be justified as it's business. Right? Yeah. You're in the game. You know what's coming for you. You know? When when when you get hit by that bullet, mate, it's just business at the end of it. But when he kills Fredo
Oti: Mhmm. Then that's what torments him and makes him feel as if he needs redemption. Mhmm. That's what sort of even turns his own son against him at the end of it. You know? So I see it's parting all this apart. I don't know. It just it's it's just not comparable to the first two because the first two are just it's just two bloody big pieces of a jigsaw puzzle that just fit too perfectly together.
KT: Like a Venus flytrap.
KT: Yeah. Just picking up off on the point that you made, Al Pacino has stated that he didn't agree with the portrayal of Michael in the third film either. Brilliant. He's not the sort of man that feels remorse. So why the fuck would he care about killing Fredo? Yeah. He was his brother until it got to the point that he wasn't he wasn't even an ally anymore. Yeah. He had utilized the relationship or the familial ties
KT: to take advantage and, you know, maybe he wasn't aware of the fact that, you know, they were setting up an assassination,
KT: but he was getting into the bed with the wrong bedfellows.
Oti: And in part two, Fredo didn't even get any sort of leg. You could see how how Sonny was was always there in the background in the periphery. He's the 2IC. Yeah. And you saw him, you know, his characteristics, his charm, per se. You know? Just just how he was as a child. And then Michael, father's kid mate.
Oti: Vito loved him so much. Yeah. And Fredo. Fredo was the middle child, mate. It's a cast. If you're a middle child, I feel sorry for you. Bit of a bit of a photo if you ask me. Here's your Lord of the Rings. Yeah. In this household, we are lucky enough to be the last Bonds. You're all Michaels here. Yes. We are the last of our kind.
KT: But, yeah, like, just generally, overall, I fucking get it. I fucking get it. I'm twenty, thirty, forty, fifty years late to the party, but I fucking get why The Godfather is a real, all enthralling piece of cinema. I fucking get it. Right? And this is and this is what I love about The Godfather because you have snooty snoots around the world that fucking love The Godfather. And then you have Yo Ho all the bros with Cheetos all over the joystick that fucking love The Godfather. Right?
KT: Everything else is busted in their apartment, but they've got that pristine limited edition godfather poster in their house. I'm not personally attacking anyone, but if it's you, hey, you know, take the frame of reference that you own. But I get it. Like and that's what's great. Like, what's great will continue to be great till the end of time. There might be cases where it doesn't get enough recognition and that's a that's a whole different conversation to have. But qualita is qualita
KT: qualita. And
KT: that is definitely a good Good job, Gutman. Yeah. Damn, dog. You wanna go, mate? No. I'm alright, mate. That's a good. What I also really loved about The Godfather, which was surprising to me, because there is the age and there is the wave of like Italian American gangster sort of films. It surprised me how very Italian The Godfather was. And again, that might be no surprise to everyone that has watched it and has, you know, continued to love The Godfather for ages. But I loved how, especially with Vito,
KT: there were Italian first and American second. Not to say there's anything wrong with Americans, but like, you know, we have the Sopranos, we have, you know, other instances. What's the one with Leonardo, Gangs of New York? Yep. Whatever. So it was nice to see it because it really it really reminded me a lot of Gomorrah. Genny. You know, you have like, obviously, like whenever you watch anything, they talk about the five families of New York. Right? Like, I get that.
KT: But I just really liked how there was that feud for power. You had grand families. You had ownership. There was obviously politics to it, but there was also respect
KT: as well.
Oti: Not so much from Michaelzen though. No. No. No. No. But he's like new he's like a new age. Yeah. He he new age, mate. He he doesn't respect shit.
KT: Oh, no. Oh, no.
Oti: But I really If you'll compare this with The Wire, he'd be Marlo.
KT: You reckon?
Oti: He'd be Marlo. Marlo didn't care for shit. He didn't care for rules.
KT: I suppose.
Oti: When you had like Avon Avon is OG.
KT: Rules are rules are rules. Oh, why are you putting in the why are you putting her in the anime? Dr. Stone. Oh, reference
Oti: Inception. People are gonna come for us. This was supposed to be a pure episode. But when when when you when you get Michael, New Age thinking, he's like, mate, you cross me, you're gone. Yeah. Every it doesn't matter. He took out the whole fucking five families
KT: Yeah. It's like the scene, mate. It was like, what? You were friends with my father for twenty years? Fuck you, mate. Fucking shoot you.
Oti: So true, mate. Like, oh, anyway, I have no qualms with that, but you could see sort of why everything sort of turned up again and it was so there was so much upheaval in the second Yeah. Sort of in in the part two of Godfather because he's just putting fires out. These people are coming out for him every single place. Yeah. His dumbass brother. Ugh. Let's how do we even address him? You're the one that keeps bringing him up. No. Because because we see Michael's
Oti: trying to find who was trying to assassinate him and who was the inside man that made him that that made it possible for someone to shoot up his house in his bedroom, you know. And and he had all these thoughts. He could be this person until he found out he was his actual fucking brother. That was a betrayal he couldn't get over. Of course not. And then for his brother to say that he's jealous because he was passed over.
Oti: He was passed over because it's a fucking joke. Oh, yeah. He doesn't take anything seriously. He doesn't take even family first. He was arguing with Michael in front of other people trying to support some dumbass what was his name? Moe? Yeah. Moe Greene. Moe Greene? Who does you know, when you're in that sort of system and that sort of environment, you need to know your fucking place. You need to know family first above all else. Yeah. Know your Even you fucking disagree, do that shit behind closed doors.
KT: Know your place, Ephialtes. That's
KT: a 300 reference. But let's I I just wanted to make a general note at least on the first and second Godfather and then we can get into characters and further where you are into the actual plots of the movie. I just wanted to mention, you know, the first one, I found it hard to keep up because in anything Tell us. Mhmm. In anything, I have problems establishing characters. So when you present like 20 different characters to me in the first, like, half an hour of a film, I struggle. Eyes eyes on struggle street. Okay?
KT: So I was really struggling to understand who was who, and it really dampened the emotional not necessarily emotional, but the payoff and the meaningful actions of assassinating certain characters in the first movie. But the good thing is this is a movie that you can watch again and again, and it will continue
KT: to give you layers upon layers upon layers. Oh, for sure. So that's not necessarily a qualm. It just kind of got in the way of me enjoying it. But the strength of the second film is all of the buildup and all of the setup that happened in the first film. Right? It it it is the glory. It is the shoulders that it is stepping on in order for it to completely,
KT: you know, bring us into a world that we want to stay, live, and bathe in the sun of. Oh, for sure. Because now we know why we should care about Don Vito and why he was in New York as a nine year old kid. You know? Like you were impersonating your whore earlier. Yeah. Like, you know, I I definitely wanted to know more about Vito. And he's because everyone loves the underdog. Like, everyone loves to hear
KT: how someone has made it. Like, yeah, it's cool that you're successful, but we wanna know how you got there. Oh, yeah. Because life is fucking hard and it will kick you in the teeth and your teeth will fall into your ass. I'm pretty sure that's a Tongan proverb. Come and fight me. But it is. And and it's interesting to see, you know, that tantalizing character development that we see with Vito. Don Vito, if you're nasty. So it really helps to shape out the characters. You know, you've talked a lot about Mike, Mikey, Michael.
KT: So let's dive a bit more into his character. Al Pacino. I really feel bad that I didn't get to see Al Pacino in the light that I should have seen him in. Wasn't he in that Adam Sandler movie where he was talking about cappuccinos, Al Pacinos? And, you know, and Robert De Niro should not be witnessed as a fucker. Like, it should be in the godfather. But it depends on when robot Jesus dropped you on the earth and you were born. Right?
KT: But man, fucking hell, man. Like, De Niro, Al Pacino, like, they really are legends forever.
Oti: Yeah. True. True. But interesting thing is the reason why we started watching Godfather I don't know how you've been smashing them. No. No. No. No. Okay. The reason why I think Godfather was in my mind. Well, I was listening to AskBlog, and Andrew, the host, was talking about how he was rewatching Godfather. And he came upon how Al Pacino just became louder as he he did roles after the Godfather. Especially in Irishman. And it was just all shouty and It was like a million decibels in Irishman. So
Oti: and he played this clip from Heat, and he was so fucking loud, and his acting was just so I don't know, man. Like, I don't know. If you're a legend, you can do whatever the fuck you want. And I guess that's that's that's the thing. Who
KT: As long as you're not a garbage person.
Oti: Who's going to tell Al Pacino, hey, mate. Tone it down a bit. You're not gonna tell him fucking anything. Yeah. It's fucking Al Pacino. You'll be like, thanks for coming. I will sacrifice my first ball with
KT: That is so true.
Oti: Yeah. And I guess that's a that's just a sort of sacrifice you have to pay for being that successful and being that good in in your solo
KT: Like, as long as you're not a garbage person and you're not doing dodgy stuff in your personal life, if you're a fucking legend, you can do whatever the fuck you want. I
KT: will ignore or just smile and nod when I see you in things that you probably shouldn't be in. But we understand the way the world works and you need to get some money, but let legends lie. Whether it's out of complacency or whether it's out of retirement, let legends lie.
KT: But Michael as a character was very interesting. He was very forthright and I really appreciated that. Like the first time that we actually see him is when he's with Kay at the sister's wedding. Mhmm. And he he outright just says to Kay, my dad does all of this fucking shit. Yeah. My dad kills people. Yeah. I don't do it, but my dad does it. Yeah. So Kay was well aware of the family of Faz. She was very well aware. Mhmm. And then even when they drifted off and he had a whole wife in Sicily
KT: and then he came back and then he reunited with Kay, he said, hey, I'm working for my dad now. Yeah. What else what else does the coronation of the mafia mean when you are working for your father? Eventually, he's going to die. And when you have two very solid 2ICs, Santino and also Tom, and you have a useless fucking son, Fredo, then you know that you're about to step up. Right? And Kay had two eyes. She could definitely perceive that that was the case. And then somehow,
KT: you know, obviously, there's stuff that happened in their marriage and she's definitely right and, you know, in everything that fucking happened. But also, lady, you knew where you're fucking getting into. Like,
KT: why is it a surprise that he's doing these dealings?
Oti: Yeah. And the perfect sort of thing Michael called called her is naive. Oh, yes. Because she's exactly that. She assumed people in power, politicians, senators, didn't do anything fucking nasty. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Who bloody stinks that in this bloody day and age? Why you have fucking politicians taking down can't even think about. She is I'm not getting carried away. She is not okay. She is not okay. But it's Political campaigns aren't cheap people. Yeah. Yeah. It's bloody bloody fucking ridiculous.
Oti: And she knows exactly what she's getting into. Michael didn't tell her, oh, I'm this good person. I'm just dealing I'm just handling papers for my father. There was a point where he said, I will let you ask once.
KT: And when she asked, he said no, but he gave the answer that she wanted. Yeah. She knew. Yeah. She knew. She just wanted a reasonable Man, and like, this is this is a bit too deep for a podcast episode, maybe like a Patreon one. But when she outrightly said
KT: that she got an abortion, like, was trying to get a rise out of him. Oh, she. Why the she was very confident in his love for her because fuck, man, I was worried for her life. Me too. He just like, he had this burst of energy and he pushed her, but that was it really. Like,
KT: she was really trying to hurt him.
Oti: And to the point where I thought I even asked you, do you think this is brave or just stupidity?
KT: I said, why not both? She exists in the realms of both. She definitely does. Yeah. But Michael was a very interesting character. And I think, you know, the most efficient sort of leader is the leader that doesn't really indulge in his leadership. Sorry or her.
Oti: Fuck off. You alright? You alright the
KT: Well, first
KT: in this case, but you know, like, you know, some people get fucking offended just over a comment like that. Like, if this is what cancels our podcast, then go ahead. Fucking hell, man. Because I'm talking about these specific characters, whatever. But yes, like interesting, interesting. Like never like you said, even when
KT: they went into Vegas and Fredo had given him the whole glitz and glamour, given him the whole Vegas experience with girls, gambling, whatever. He's like, get all this fucking shit out. I'm leaving tomorrow morning. Just let me rest. Yeah. Right? And those are kind of the best leaders to have. Like, you might have instances with Pablo Escobar and he has like a exotic zoo. But like, there there needs to be some sense of leadership where it isn't too indulgent. Yeah. In in in the path of destruction, self destruction rather. Agreed.
Oti: And and I think one of the things that also Michael was sort of struggling to get was
Oti: a partner who would be a ride or die.
KT: I'm surprised that, like, Michael lasted that long, to be honest. Because he didn't he didn't really respect the rules of the old world. So I I I really thought people were going to come after him. People are going to come after
Oti: He was into full. People were coming after him. The problem the thing is he's smart.
KT: But he was in two. Like, he was literally geriatric age by the time we saw him in Godfather three. Like, he survived
KT: quite a long time.
Oti: Yeah. Because he got rid of all his enemies. True. Even when they had surrendered and fled the country, thinking of Hyman Roth went to a different country Yeah. To get to to just surrender. He'd given up. He's just gonna do his life, die in peace. But no, mate. Once you've crossed Michael, you're his enemy. You have to go. Doesn't matter. Yeah. So he killed off all his enemies. Doesn't doesn't who
Oti: would come after him? He'd he'd know when someone wants to kill him. He's smart enough.
KT: Well, the interesting thing is even with Hyman,
KT: you know, he was talking about the game is the game. Like when his friend died, that Michael
Oti: Moe Greene.
KT: Thank you. He didn't question it because it wasn't business. Yeah. So he was hoping that Michael would feel the same way or just turn an eye away from the death that Hyman set up for Pentangeli. Pentangeli.
Oti: Yeah. But the thing is, man, you know, it's they all cry business when they're in the wrong Yeah. Or when they fucked up. Yeah. But any other time, it's all, oh, are buddies, are family, we have codes and shit.
KT: You think they didn't follow you think they didn't really respect the code?
Oti: Not until they not not when it's didn't suit them.
KT: Yeah. I guess so. Or is it more just Michael?
Oti: No. Michael just didn't get care for the codes at all. True. Michael was his own man. He he took out whole fucking families.
Oti: It's the most effective thing to do though. Get rid of your enemies, then who'll come after you? coppers, maybe, but then again, you run pretty much the the state.
KT: Enemies within, Oti. And
KT: isn't that the most painful of betrayals? Oh, for sure. Yeah. I I don't think we really saw semblances where Michael actually got to rest on his laurels, so to say, and actually enjoy being the godfather. And I also felt instances of that with Marlon Brando at like, literally the first scene
KT: is him doing business during his daughter's wedding.
Oti: It seemed like they didn't get a break every single time. Everyone just wants something from you. Yeah. Yeah. You you're walking, talking. People are coming for deals. It felt like Aaron Sorkin's wet dream. Like, bloody hell. You know? There there could have been more walking, if that was the case. Yeah. Yeah. Well, in the wedding scene, there was plenty of walking and talking. Well, do hand gestures count? It's like burning calories. Yeah.
KT: Let's let's lay some respect for Marlon Brando. Interestingly enough, Al Pacino boycotted the Academy Awards ceremony. He was annoyed that he was nominated for best actor in a supporting role when he actually got more screen time than Marlon Brando. Oh. Yeah. Well, what do you think? Because it might also be a a discussion of seniority. But even that's not right, is it?
Oti: But But when you think Godfather, the the the titular character in the first Godfather was
Oti: Marlon Brando. Yeah. Right? Yeah. He was Marlon Brando. But then So he had feels that he didn't get for the leading. Well, you would too. Not really. Not when you you against Marlon Brando and the fucking performance he had. He himself boycotted the awards because of the portrayal of native Americans.
KT: Wow. We're just gonna boycott on your boycott. Yeah. I'm just gonna show you the sort of person Marlon Brando was. Well, let me add on to your Marlon Brando. Apparently, the cat that he has in the scene wasn't a part of the script and he found it on the Paramount lot. And the cat was having such a good time. Its purring was so loud. They had to loop over the audio. Wow. Brilliant. Right? Yeah. But let yeah. Let's let's talk about Marlon Brando because I don't know if you talk about the first Godfather,
KT: like how many TV shows, how many movies like, impersonate his I did that perfectly. Fuck off. Yeah. You did. We
Oti: should've done it when I got my wisdom too far. That would've sounded more accurate. Oh, yeah. We'd get magpies flying all around us thinking they're being cold for mating season.
KT: How do you think we get our money? How do you think the bills, the electricity stays on Oti? So we have the very iconic line, I'm gonna make him an offer he can't which I said perfectly if you wanna go back to the start of this episode. And this came in at number two of the top 100 movie quotes from the American Film Institution, right behind Gone with the Wind, frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. So it's
KT: and it's tantalizing and it's very interesting. And again, it's one of those things just like Star Wars, like, can understand a reference without ever having to watch it.
Oti: Is that the crossing called a diode?
KT: I said it's the cannoli that I'm going to fill in. Oh, okay. But Marlon Brando, oh, it was fucking effortless.
Oti: Yeah. Just for me, he just commanded the scene. Oh, yeah. Every time he was there, you could feel not only was he he gave this sort of air that he was the don, you know? And it's just one of those things that I feel like without him as the sort of lead to sort of create this opportunity for Michael to take over and to carry the the mantle,
Oti: then it wouldn't have been as effective in my opinion.
KT: Apparently his tears in the first movie when he's in the hospital and Michael saying, like, he's essentially gonna step up was real.
Oti: Oh, feels.
KT: But on the other side of the feels, how do you feel? Because, you know, famously, they talk about Marlon Brando not learning his lines. This was true with The Godfather, and there would be cue cards there for him. What are your personal opinions
KT: on that?
Oti: If he's executing So that's a thespian. If he's executing it like that without bloody knowing his lines It's justified. It's justified. Yo. We know people who've learned their fucking lines and can't deliver bloody notes on the pizza box.
KT: Why you gotta mention a pizza box?
Oti: Just making it close to home as possible.
KT: Yeah. I don't know. Like, I it's a bit of a dickish thing to do, to be honest. You think of all of the people that, like, fumble auditions because they don't know their lines. They'll be like, nah, mate. Don't worry. You'll have cue cards for me when you hire me.
Oti: I brought up Al Pacino's
Oti: shoutiness Uh-huh. And he said, who fucking cares? He's a legend. For Marlon What? Oh. For Marlon Brando to deliver to deliver his Yeah. True. His prowess the way he did, and he he needs to read off a bloody cue card. Who cares?
KT: Well, you you you've got me with my hand behind my back, and that's that's that's not where I wanna be, at least not while we're recording. Yeah.
Oti: And fun fact is, Paramount had had so many problems with Coppola
Oti: in the Godfather part one production that they were thinking of kicking kicking him out and Marlon Brando was like, mate, if he goes, I go.
KT: Well, just to add on top of your fact on, apparently,
KT: Marlon Brando was supposed to make an appearance in the second film. Remember when they were like preparing a meal saying that they're waiting for him to come? Yeah. For his birthday. Yeah. Yeah. But he didn't fucking like the treatment during the first movie. So whether he agreed or not, there was a day scheduled for him to come and he didn't fucking turn up. Because I was like, this is really weird. And then we're like, did he die? No, he didn't die. He just didn't show up.
KT: Yeah. But he really, obviously, without any frame of reference of what it's like to be a part of, like, an Italian mafia family, he really played that role. So effortlessly. You didn't well, you know, we talk a lot about like, you can see the actors are rehearsing the lines. Obviously, he didn't because he didn't fucking rehearse them. But he still he still was in the moment. Right? I did think that it was a bit cheap that he got shot in the first forty five minutes of
KT: the first Godfather. The Castle Of The Orange. But it's like almost three hours. Right? I think the second one was three and a half. Right? So forty five minutes is nothing really in that sort of runtime. But I was like, he's not dead, is he? Surely. What the fuck? This man is not dead. It's called the fucking godfather. And then you fucking spoiled it for me. You're like, the godfather isn't one person.
Oti: I thought you knew. It's so I don't know. How would I know that, though? You're the one who called, hey. I didn't need to know references to watch the movie. So of course I'm thinking that. You
KT: know what? This episode is verbal evidence of the Don KT being taken down by the incompetent Fredo Oti. You know when people come into power and they don't deserve it? Fucking FFELTs over here.
Oti: Wow.
KT: Are you done with your $2 foiling plan with our dog? Yep.
Oti: See you. Our plot has been unfoiled.
KT: Oh, but, you know, like, even the IMDb trivia page for the first Godfather movie alone, it has so many trivia facts. And and I guess if you do want like a dissertation of, you know, analysis and facts in regards to The Godfather, there are plenty of other resources that do it. This is really more just a discussion of how we felt watching it. And it's interesting that we've talked a lot about the first one. Do you wanna go into the second one now? Oh, yeah. Yep. Let's delve into Vito's life.
KT: Andolini, if you're nasty. Mhmm. It was very rich. It was very rich in backstory. It was exactly what I wanted when I watched the first Godfather. Usually when you have like the first film in a sequel and it might just be because they don't envision having sequels, but usually when you have like a first film or like a first season of a TV show, it is the insular story that needed to be told, that wanted to be told, that needed to be told, however they could do within budgetary production sort of constraints. Right? And
KT: then usually the second movie in a sequel or in a TV show, it it kind of loses momentum because they have to go back to expand the story. Yeah. Right? Godfather was completely different. And maybe it is because it was based off of a book. But a lot of the setup was happening in the first movie and a lot of the fleshing out was happening in the first movie so that in the second one, you can fucking soar. Yep. You can fly. Let's roll. It's a KMP reference.
KT: That's why we called For Your Reference, by the way, in case you were wondering. But Two was fucking great. I wanted to know more about Vito. Robert De Niro actually lived in Sicily for three months to prepare for the role. Oh, nice. It was a specific dialect and he wanted to make sure that he got it right. Oh, brilliant. And he is one of a handful of winners for the Academy Award that have won in a non English speaking sort of role because pretty much like 80% of his role was in English.
Oti: Oh.
KT: Right? Very nice. Yeah. Kudos. With a face that would not quit.
Oti: It was interesting seeing Vito though growing up and his struggles because he saw the sort of harrowing scene going to an actual funeral. It it always happens during major events. Right? Yeah. And then Well, he killed the dad because I think he was being insubordinate and churlish. That's Key and Peele reference again. They killed the brother off and then And the mom. The mom goes to the don and tries to say, hey, You've taken everything from me, my only son. Please let him be. He's dumb.
KT: I don't know if she used the word dumb, she was like, leave him alone. Yeah. He's dumb. Just He won't he won't come for you, which was very unfortunate. What I had a qualm with, that lady had managed to get an knife on that don's neck,
KT: and she she was just like, run, run. And then she paused and got Actually, I don't even fucking get that. And usually, it happens during a lot of, like, action scenes where they have, like, the enemy. They've got the gun cocked at them, her, her, but then something interrupts the scene and they don't shoot. Like, why don't you just fucking shoot? Because one you know, once you've pulled that knife, once you pull that move, there's only one way that's gonna end. Oh, yeah. Might as well go down with him. Yeah. You know? Go down with the shipmate. Daido? Yeah. If you're welcome. Yeah.
KT: Like, she she she had wanted her son to escape at all costs even if it was at the cost of her life. So why don't she just go the extra step further and just like inch just one inch. Yeah. Just the tip. Just the tip would have done. Archie reference. But
Oti: it made me it made me so more satisfying seeing Vito go back as an adult and having achieved all this sort of success or building onto his success, going back to Italy and killing him, gutting him like a fish.
KT: Because he's like, what's your name? And he said, Vito Andolini. And he's like, what? I can't really hear you. And I was shouting. I was like, say your real name. You are the one who knocks. Breaking Bad reference. Yeah. Wow. What a scene. That was really satisfying. That was fucking satisfying.
Oti: I ate up every erection in the room. It was good to see how they all linked up with Clemenza and Tessio. Tessio.
KT: Yeah. It was it was nice to see because, like, by the time we see them in the first Godfather, they're just like old ditties. Like and we're like, yeah, whatever. Like, you know, we don't we don't really care about you. But they were the genesis. Like, And how cute was it? So you had their little hijinks and their little misadventures. So when they first encountered the Don and the Don's like, I've heard that you've been selling shit. And it's only natural that you just give me $200
KT: because it sounds like a choice. Right? It's like, you could give me $200. I'm not gonna tell you what the repercussions are, but your mother's gonna feel it. Yeah. You know what I mean? And he's like, yeah. And it was it was just it was so masterful and it was so giddy and it was so satisfying to watch Vito tell Tessio and Clemenza, hey, give me $50. We're gonna get 1 50, and I'm gonna tell him this is all we have. And then he didn't even front his 50. Just gave them a 100. Yeah.
KT: And I just I I feel like I really love, you know, the way that it was done in this film and maybe films now have to should go back to this. There was violence. There was there was shootings in this, but they weren't fucking gratuitous. I didn't see a full on zoomed in picture of your guts falling out of your stomach. Yeah. Like, at some point, you don't really need to see that. Yeah. Like when we see Vito stabbing the don back in Corleone,
KT: the way he stabbed him was was gruesome enough. You know what I mean? Like we didn't need to see every inch of pixelation, you know, in that bleeding sort of sequence.
Oti: Agreed.
KT: Unless it's like Deadpool when he's trying to dodge the bullets. That's one of the things I fucking love. But I really like the way that the fight scenes or the violence sort of scenes were done. I get it comes to a point where people are like, I want more. I want it more realistic. I wanted this. I wanted that. But the way the way that Don Vito died in The Godfather, it was so unexpected.
KT: It was almost to the point where I'm like, hey, they didn't make a big deal out of that. Is this real? Because usually when you watch a movie, it becomes such a big moment. Yeah. You know what I mean? I kind of appreciated that it didn't really do it like that in this movie. But it's kind of like the new trend or the recent trend rather.
KT: You know, there's there's there's a buildup, there's a sad scene that happens and then there's music and that becomes very effective. But it was very refreshing watching this. And when people died, they fucking died. Right? That's just how it be. Mhmm. For sure. So I I really appreciated the layers that we had. And The Godfather two is a perfect pairing. Mhmm. Agreed. A 100%. The Godfather one, The Godfather two is like KT and Oti from the For Your Reference podcast.
KT: And I guess The Godfather three is if we decide to bring another host on permanently.
Oti: Yeah. Okay.
KT: I just wanna capture off with a couple of characters that I really enjoyed in this. And if some of if some of you were like, hang on a second, we have almost nine hours of film time. How the fuck can you capture it in one hour? Well, fuck off. I never really imagined that we would have covered all of the films in this episode. And it might be just a nice little, like, we can have like another little conversation after this. But I definitely wanted to pay respects
KT: for the Godfather trilogy on the For Your Reference podcast because, you know, it's been long enough for us not to cover it. So let's I wanna talk a bit more about Santino and also
KT: Tom.
Oti: Oh, loved Sonny. He made an irrational don just because his anger led his decisions
Oti: most of the time.
KT: Yeah. He He reminded me of Gustavo from Narcos.
Oti: Yes.
KT: Yeah. He was very effective in what he did, but he's definitely not someone you would want as a leader. Yeah. He would have been the perfect sort of
KT: 2IC for Michael.
KT: Apparently, James Caan, the actor that plays Sonny, felt like there wasn't enough character dimension to him and he claims that he had forty five minutes of his screen time being cut from the movie.
Oti: Wow. Would there be more you wanted to know from Sonny though? I really like Sonny though. I like Sonny. He brightened the room if you'll pardon the pun. I like Sonny and I like how he cared, you know. The sister was being beaten up all the time by someone he introduced into the family we later found out in. But too so for that, I think he took sort of responsibility and went and beat him up. And that was sort of the start of his downfall because that guy just partnered up with the other families.
Oti: Mhmm. And they took Sonny down in such a brutal brutal way.
KT: Sonny did what needed to be done without question. And I guess his death was important to Michael because he had less he had less of a support network to rely on. Yeah. Because it would have been a bit too easy for his rise to eminent if he had Sonny around. Because you have Tom, but he's not muscle.
Oti: No. And and they said the perfect thing. He's he's not the consigliere for for for war time.
KT: Are you sure you're not Italian, Oti?
Oti: Oh. Go away. But he's he's more perfect when he was all peaceful, and he could focus more on his sort of business business tact rather than focusing how to retaliate or how to get to the enemy or get a win over the enemy. Yeah.
KT: And Robert Duvall, who plays Tom,
KT: wasn't in the third movie, and apparently, it was over contractual sort of payments because he wanted to get paid as much as the other costars.
Oti: Oh.
KT: Yeah. So but what that means is like for for us especially, Tom was a very beloved character and to not have him come back in the third film was kind of a slap in the face. Yeah. Introducing his wife and son, fucking hell. That was just shit. But the son looked like him, don't you think? Yeah. Sort of. And Robert Duvall kind of reminded me of Michael Bolton.
KT: Like, I wanted to see him in double denim on a desert sort of mountain.
Oti: It just didn't make sense not having him there. It didn't. No. Especially after the sort of role he played in the first and second. He was such a strong unit. Yeah. Even when Michael was giving him an out multiple times Yeah. You must just go to Vegas with your wife and mistress and son. He was like, how many times must I tell you? How should I prove myself that I am loyal to you? Mhmm. And for him
Oti: to just be erased from the third movie over what? Money? When they made so much anyway?
KT: It's
KT: But do you think actors like Robert Duvall would have gotten much money?
Oti: No. No. But why not just give him close to what the others were getting?
KT: Oh, okay. So you're so you're coming from his point of view. I thought you're saying that he should've just done it.
Oti: No. Give him his money, he's because he he was in it all the time in the first and the second one. Yeah. He was in almost all the scenes. Like, unless he's dead, it makes no sense that he's not in the movie. Yeah. It doesn't. It just made it less of a I don't know. It felt like Michael was all devoid of all support.
Oti: Yeah. And they tried to make the sister be there, but that wasn't enough, really.
KT: Apparently, that's Coppola's sister.
Oti: Oh.
KT: Yeah. And she he didn't want her being in it because according to him, she was too pretty to play a part of the family. And she also plays Adrian in Rocky, if you're welcome. Speaking of Rocky, Sylvester Stallone also auditioned for this, and he didn't get it. Of course. It's a talking role.
Oti: Why? People aren't grunting on this. It's not called the mute, father. Just be grunts
KT: all throughout the whole three hours. Hey, man. That that's your hill. That's your hill to die on. I'm just spouting out random facts just trying to get it into the episode. Before we end, I I do wonder, Oti. I genuinely wonder
KT: if anyone can for Godfather three.
Oti: I I don't think it's that bad. I don't think it's bad.
KT: I literally had to sticky tape my eyes open.
Oti: I just think, like, when you when you sort of see the angle or whatever they're trying to do or achieve with that one, especially in terms of Michael's storyline, then it sort of makes sense.
KT: But why? Why do this? It's like a Bad Boys episode. Like, why do you need to do this? So many years later. Obviously, the box office is saying why they did it. I just I didn't care for it. Coppola also mentions that the third movie isn't necessarily closing off the trilogy. It's more so an epilogue after the first and second film. And it's like semantics, motherfucker. It was fucking shite.
Oti: Are we gonna talk about the last scene in in in part three? Yep. Where there's an assassination attempt on Michael. Mhmm. And it hits Michael's daughter. Yep. In in his quest for finding redemption, I guess the most Michael could get in suffering was not him dying because I initially thought this would all land in Michael dying because that's the only way these sort of movies go anyway, you know? Yeah. This is what happens. Yeah. But You're a part of the game.
Oti: These are the ramifications of being part of the game. But for someone who Michael didn't really show that much emotion and stuff. Mhmm. He was quite quiet and reserved in his sort of expressions and all for him to witness the daughter being killed and for him to scream.
KT: Like a banter?
Oti: Yeah. Well, not really because there are any concerns you need. You can see the shock in in the other people's faces, in the wife and the sister's faces like, oh, wow. Oh, we could get a reaction like this from Michael. Yeah. I guess that's his ultimate sort of suffering, which I think was nice.
KT: That's some film grad shit. I didn't care about that. It
KT: was shite. I didn't care for it. The third movie was just the big why. Everyone fucking looked exhausted. Even though I like looking at a fresh face Joe Mantegna. I I didn't need to see it. Like, I get it. There's a cycle. It's a dog eat dog world. People rise to eminence. People take out other people so they can rise to eminence. Like I get it. They didn't really offer anything new in the third one.
KT: Fair enough. And the only reason why I wanted to have a little bit of a discussion is because I would love to hear people's thoughts if they felt like this was the cherry on top of the pie. No. Definitely not the cherry. More like the raisin in an unwanted We love a raisin. Rum cake. How would you even tell in a rum cake? I think it's more like a chocolate chip cookie and you get a raisin in it. Oh, you've not had some seriously Are you talking about your Concentrated
KT: rum cake. Are you talking about your feet cake again? Yeah. You have to eat that feet cake to know how bad it tastes. Okay. So it hasn't been mentioned on a couple of episodes. So you take qualm to my prison panty business, but you're okay with rum feet cake. Yeah. Alright. On this episode of the lion's den or shark tank, tell us who you would invest in. Whose business idea would you invest in?
KT: Definitely not the godfather three. I'll tell you that much for free. Oh, wow. Alright. Well, I don't fucking care for it. What was the fucking point? Wow. You were really going to leave me hanging, hey? Yep. Alright. I guess that's what they did in number three. Let's move on. Thank you. Friends and lovers for listening another week in the For Reference podcast. We are going to finish off with the segment we call For Your Reference. Oti.
Oti: I would like to reference The Sopranos.
KT: Woah. Gandolfini may rest in peace. Gandolfini may. And Edie Falco, motherfuckers.
Oti: Edie Falco. But she was shitting that. Carmela? Yeah. Fucking hell.
KT: She can eat all the dicks. Carmela's fucking crap. Oh, she was remember? Oh, we let's spoil Sopranos. Spoiler. Spoiler. Remember when the house caved? Yeah. And she didn't fucking care? Wow.
Oti: And then she was turning her hand. Oh my god. She was the OG housewife. Wow. Yeah. Fuck it out. If if only they do housewives of mobsters or some shit. I don't know. Bravo has a huge catalog. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't already have it. She she should definitely apply for that. Fucking hell. But it's a great show nonetheless. All Sopranos. Yeah. I know characters here and there as you would imagine, but Chris. Chris is cute. Chris is cute. Paulie. I wanna believe that Paulie
Oti: paid homage to Godfather. I
Oti: don't wanna spoil it again, but I I feel like he paid homage to Godfather. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a very, very, very solid show. One of the best TV shows out there ever. Oh, yeah. HBO is pure qualita. What about you, KT?
KT: I will reference
KT: the Italian series Gomorrah.
Oti: Oh.
KT: With our ever eternal Gennaro. If you haven't allowed yourself the opportunity to watch Gomorrah, I would certainly encourage it. I'm pretty sure English dubs are available, but you know, to enjoy the full scope of of story and emotion, you should definitely watch it in subtitles. And that's it, friends and lovers. There we go. Before we say goodbye on Twitter and Instagram, we are @ForYourRefPod. You can write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.
KT: We're also on Apple Podcasts. So if you'd like to help us and give us a rating whether you feel like we're worth five stars, you can find us there. Friends
Oti: and lovers.
KT: You, motherfuckers.
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