The End of Oak Street, Hope & The Comeback

Full transcript of The End of Oak Street, Hope & The Comeback.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and it's another Ref Max, friends and lovers. While we're here, shout-outs to one of the people we love to love, Tom from History of Aotearoa. Many, many, many, many, many years ago, we have a collab episode on our podcast for Predestination, which was a lot of fun. And many, many moons ago in PodTwitter, it was so nice to finally meet face-to-face in real life, IRL, as the kids. I think we're the kids that were saying IRL. Really, Oti?

0:39Oti: Oh, I've not said anything.

0:41KT: Okay, Oti, cherish. Yep, love. Check out History of Aotearoa. Aside from being a great friend of ours, amazing quality, award-winning podcast, friends and lovers. Make sure you check it out. But yeah, we're back in the saddle, as they say. Grab a snack, friends and lovers, and yeah, let's get on with it. Howdy ho. Actually, Oti, as South Park is rebranding as South America, are we For Your America?

1:19Oti: Yeah.

1:20KT: You've got your rootin' tootin' KT.

1:23Oti: And your hootin' tootin' Oti.

1:25KT: Oh, I thought you were gonna be mum with the iPad. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. Today we have a succinct, perhaps parallel, perhaps in discussion in comparison and reflecting of The End of Oak Street, Hope, as well as The Comeback.

1:47Oti: Mm.

1:48KT: Non-spoilers, friends and lovers, you know how it is. We also finished season two of The Paper, which we will not be covering today, but we have covered in the past. We also recently watched King of the Hill, which was a lot of fun too, as well as Ludwig.

2:03Oti: Mm.

2:04KT: And also shout-outs to, I feel like we've done it, but we have not done Widow's Bay. But shout-outs to Widow's Bay for winning. Matthew Rhys starring, that we did cover The Beast in Me.

2:18Oti: Mm-hmm.

2:19KT: Ah. Okay, let's start off with The End of Oak Street. Give us your non-spoiler thoughts, my love, your first impressions.

2:31Oti: The End of Oak Street moves at a good pace, sprinkling in enough thrills to make for an easy, fun watch. The final act lost me a little as it tried to tie everything together, but nothing that spoils the ride.

2:44KT: Sounds like their marriage. Heyo. The End of Oak Street presents layered topics, but given the rating, not fully exploring did not dampen the experience. Premise was interesting and enough narrative-wise to be entertaining. It was a movie.

3:09Oti: And we watched it.

3:10KT: It was a movie, and we watched it.

3:12Oti: Nah, seriously.

3:13KT: It wasn't as bad as Mother Mary, though. Oh, Mother Mary was very pretentious. So, of the Anne Hathaways, I enjoyed her more than Penelope.

3:23Oti: Mm, I guess not taking itself too seriously as well.

3:27KT: It was PG as well.

3:28Oti: Yeah. I felt like there was so much promise in what it could be, even if they wanted to not really explore—

3:39KT: 'Cause it had J.J. Abrams in the credits, right?

3:42Oti: Mm.

3:42KT: Yeah.

3:44Oti: I just felt that, like you said, they left something on the table when it came to what they could do with this movie. But it's, again, nothing that spoils, makes it feel as if you're missing out on something, you know?

4:01KT: Yeah.

4:02Oti: Which I know I'll have a juxtaposing sort of thought when it comes to Hope later.

4:06KT: Yeah. I'm not necessarily playing the exec, but I would say that this probably would fare better as a limited series, and also make it a more mature rating. Not because I wanna see dinosaur dicks, but mostly so we can. You kind of paused, so it made it feel quite plausible that that's what I wanted, my love. But more so, so we can actually explore, I guess, the depths of their marriage. 'Cause you know me, my problem is I always like to ground stuff. I always reference Daenerys from Game of Thrones. But I kind of saw this as a narrative, literary device of her and her marriage, personally. Which I think there are a lot of interesting themes. So, aside from me trying to ground it, there was a whole Jurassic Park going on in this film, and it would've been nice to explore it. We said no spoilers, but it wasn't even foreshadowing. They kind of made it clear that while they make it into this world, they're gonna find a way out.

5:17Oti: Mm.

5:18KT: It's not a deus ex machina, but there's a term for it in filmmaking where it's like you leave, you know when you're coding and you leave, is it a backdoor—

5:28Oti: Mm.

5:28KT: in the code? Yeah, it felt like that. Silicon Valley, dick-to-floor ratio, friends and lovers.

5:36Oti: So that nothing felt final. It felt as if they can pull a lever and just get out of whatever situation they're in because it's temporary.

5:45KT: Yeah, it's like the daughter was like Noah from Archer. She's the one that held all the knowledge, and she was the backdoor code, I guess, so to speak. So the stakes weren't necessarily there. I do feel like, I don't think it's necessarily the rating. It might have just been, I guess, the shortcut to the easiest way to get to the conclusion, or the complication, then the conclusion of this film. They literally just threw in characters just to kill them off so they wouldn't kill the core cast.

6:18Oti: Mm.

6:19KT: Racially, I don't know if we need to tally the characters that were dying. I don't think it was to that level. But yeah, you're absolutely right. It was a bit of an itch, but not a scratch. We didn't get all the way there. I really like the way they designed it though. 'Cause the next film we're going to get into, I will have a lot more to say in regards to it, but, you know, it was a Jason Statham.

6:51Oti: Mm.

6:51KT: You know? Came to do the film, did the film. Honestly, I don't think I'm checking for the kids. I don't know if I saw them in other stuff. I don't think they were that interesting personally. Ewan McGregor, he was not interesting in a way that didn't piss me off. So you don't wanna defend him?

7:15Oti: No. They introduced the complication in the marriage that they don't really resolve outside of script flip at the end, you know? Uh-huh. So—

7:29KT: And who else makes a The Cleveland Show reference in 2026, friends and lovers?

7:36Oti: Yeah.

7:37KT: They had things on the table.

7:39Oti: Mm.

7:39KT: They just, I guess they didn't fully explore it. But speaking of exploring too much, Hope. This is the Korean film. I believe it definitely made an impression in Cannes. It might have premiered at Cannes as well.

7:55Oti: Mm. Well, it's easy to make impressions.

8:00KT: Yeah. Words have been said. Your first impressions, my love.

8:04Oti: Hope opens with a first half hour that's quite the marvel, setting expectations it quite never manages to meet. There are fun hijinks along the way, but it gradually loses its footing, leaving me more frustrated by its promise than disappointed by the film in itself.

8:23KT: Yeah. Hope opens with compelling humanity but opts to insert various character design and repetitive humor to tedious effect. There's a carelessness to the narrative that I hope is complacency rather than technological greed.

8:42Oti: You know what I thought I was gonna get with the first sort of half hour? I thought we were delving into a District 9 sort of realm.

8:50KT: Ah.

8:52Oti: And I was in for it. I was like, "Finally, a movie going there."

8:57KT: It's been a while since we've had a District 9 sort of film, yeah.

9:00Oti: Yeah, it's been a minute. But no, no, no, no, no, they had other plans.

9:06KT: They said, "Fuck you. Fuck you for sitting here. Fuck you for watching."

9:11Oti: Oh.

9:12KT: I was thinking, like, Attack on Titan-ish, but yeah, I think commentary-wise, we're both saying the same thing. And it wasn't as if we had an indication based off the director. It was just what they were presenting.

9:27Oti: Yeah.

9:27KT: Present them.

9:28Oti: Mm.

9:29KT: What was presented at the start really felt like something. I was like, "Oh, is this gonna be something about migrants, you know, about refugees?" Like, I was like, "Mm, are we dabbling, dibble-dabbling into something, something, something?"

9:41Oti: Oh, the tethering. Let's get this, man. Like, you know?

9:45KT: Something.

9:45Oti: There was an emotional hook there that was like there's something unsaid in between these moments where there's the brutality of whatever's occurring and everyone getting thrashed and killed, but in the in-betweens where they're also being targeted, then, you know— there was something there, and I thought that's where the strings will be pulled and us being drawn farther into the sort of unknown of this.

10:16KT: I agree, and I'm also. The quality and promise and a whisper of the pen, how did it decline? How did it deteriorate so badly? You need to have some sort of talent to set the film up the way that it did, and you completely went on cruise control. Unless he's got a kid, he's got a nephew, he's got some family member that is nepoing and they wrote the rest of it. Interesting. That's what I said in regards to complacency. I feel like AI is afoot in this film. People try to push back on me that maybe the design wasn't actually AI. Maybe the writing was. There was something that felt very, like, it was careless.

11:03Oti: Manufactured.

11:04KT: Right?

11:04Oti: Mm.

11:05KT: It felt very synthetic.

11:07Oti: Mm.

11:08KT: It's like if you let Michael Fassbender write it through his Groot's asshole. I was gonna say Groot, but I forgot his name. It just felt like a little dibby-dabble. It didn't feel like it was trying to grow roots into something. You know, for all of my colonial qualms that I have with Avatar, for example, people spent years on that character design, and as much as there are some different features between the Na'vi people, they all have the same body type. They all have the same design. This film, it just threw out designs.

11:52Oti: Everyone had a different. It's the Oprah Winfrey of sort of—

11:55KT: Wow.

11:56Oti: alien.

11:57KT: The South America South Park Oprah Winfrey?

12:00Oti: Yeah. Yeah, everyone was getting a different aesthetic.

12:03KT: But even if they wanted to have multiple designs, it's like the anti. Was it Bird Box?

12:09Oti: Mm.

12:09KT: The one where they chose not to show the character design. Like, even if they wanted to have different character designs, this was a fuck you movie because we literally got to three-quarters of the movie, we see Michael Fassbender as Groot near the end of the movie saying, "We're gonna save your kid." What are you talking about? Did you come from Planet Kolob where the Mormons are from? Like, where did you come from? And why is it important to fight for your plight? And you're doing that fuck you three-quarters into the movie? Are you fucking kidding me?

12:45Oti: Joseph Smith was not prepared for that.

12:48KT: Man, you remember his name. Look at you.

12:52Oti: I'm the number one fan.

12:56KT: But it just pissed me off because, again, I just don't see a world where you can create something so compelling at the start, and that's what I'm saying. My kindness is it was complacency.

13:13Oti: And that's why I was like, where do you then judge this based off the expectations set in the first half hour?

13:19KT: It wasn't a movie, it was slop.

13:22Oti: Wow.

13:23KT: Explain to me where the quality was. It wasn't even in the performances. Respectfully, respectfully—

13:30Oti: The first half hour was genuinely setting up something that will pay off.

13:33KT: Cute, it's two and a half hours. So what? Am I just gonna be there with hand up fucking ass for two hours?

13:42Oti: No, but I just would appreciate that.

13:43KT: Yeah, clearly you wanna fuck me too. This movie will fuck me, you wanna fuck me too? But it's very frustrating, and I'm going to say, I very clearly just be saying what I wanna say on here. Within reason, within analyses, I think because of the wave of excitement of Korean films, I'm not talking just about KPop Demon Hunters, I'm just saying there's an excitement and a thrill to Korean films. Obviously Bong Joon-ho, love, love, love. Like, I think, 'cause even you were in the media screening with me, my love, I think the Korean people were just saying things, and the audience laughed because we've watched Korean. Exactly, I'm watching you smile. We've watched Korean films, and Korean dialogue can be quite funny.

14:33Oti: Mm.

14:34KT: Right? I think there's just, I don't know, is it an overeagerness to want to like the film because it's not in English, and you think it's funny, but it's not? Like, I don't get it.

14:49Oti: The jokes are deeper if it's not in English.

14:52KT: What is deep in English?

14:55Oti: And I guess trying to understand or even just comprehending the movie from what's being presented, the decisions are being made that did not make sense.

15:10KT: Mm.

15:10Oti: The characters— 'Cause it's quite brutal, but only to a point, only to a set of characters that are—

15:18KT: Well.

15:20Oti: Yeah. It's like, if you're going fully there, then go there. Don't pitter-patter.

15:27KT: Yeah.

15:27Oti: You know, the rules have to apply within the same world.

15:30KT: Maybe that's when his baby nephew was drawing with the crayons to write the script.

15:35Oti: Yeah. Yeah.

15:37KT: 'Cause there was some cool things at the start. It frustrated me. 'Cause two and a half hours in general is egregious if it's not like an epic, and obviously we've lived in the worlds of The Odyssey, so long runtimes are fine. But in regards to the actual story, two and a half hours is egregious. No one cared about the fact that three-quarters in we're now getting the plight of the non-humans. Like, what is that?

16:18Oti: Yeah.

16:20KT: There was a lot that was just left there, and that was kinda why I wanted to do The End of Oak Street and Hope together because whilst The End of Oak Street was inoffensive and just okay, it chose its moments, and this Hope didn't choose its moments. It literally threw everything in and saw what stuck.

16:44Oti: Mm. Yeah.

16:48KT: All right. Are you ready to move on to the last. This is my most enjoyable of the lot, friends and lovers. The Comeback.

16:59Oti: Mm-mm. I didn't expect to love Valerie's journey as much as I did. Funny, uncomfortable, and surprisingly moving. The Comeback only gets better, with season two delivering some of the most emotionally rich writing I've seen on TV. Woo. Bazinga.

17:17KT: Yeah. So good. Valerie presents as a pageant queen ventriloquist spouting empty platitudes, but throughout the series we start to recognize how our own flaws may reflect with hers.

17:31Oti: Mm.

17:32KT: It's a series that doesn't gloss over and firmly has its heart in the sweetest place. Who knew?

17:38Oti: Who bloody knew?

17:39KT: Who knew that we would feel so emotional, like out of nowhere start this show and just get so fucking emotional and invested?

17:48Oti: Well, starting off, season one we weren't really sure what we were gonna get. The show wasn't captivating us, but it wasn't enough to throw us off to be like, "Oh, we're not gonna watch this."

17:59KT: It felt like a Bravo type thing, right, in the first season.

18:02Oti: So holding it there and watching season one, and then shifting gears to season two, and it just got better and better.

18:15KT: Yeah.

18:16Oti: And everything they did in season one just made sense in how they set up Valerie.

18:21KT: Yeah.

18:22Oti: And oh my word, it's been a minute since I got so giddy over a TV show and over a character that you know is flawed, but the resonance was fucking wild and something really unexpected.

18:42KT: Shout out to Lisa Kudrow.

18:44Oti: Shout out to Lisa Kudrow.

18:45KT: Is she your favorite Friend?

18:48Oti: One of them, yeah.

18:48KT: Rest in peace to Matthew Perry.

18:50Oti: Mm.

18:51KT: I love this show, and I think it is a testament to not just great writing, not just great world-building, but really satisfying character building and character arcs and character growth because, shout out to Kim Fields, we see her in the pilot, right?

19:17Oti: Yeah.

19:18KT: 'Cause watching this, personally, I do find it very itchy to watch characters that are not genuine. But I do prefer that because when you have perfect characters, the story's not very interesting, right? But watching Valerie, I was like, "Ugh," 'cause there was such a veneer to her, right? She said all the right things, but you knew inside she felt a way, right? You knew that she felt a way knowing that, for example, Kim Fields is showing up at an audition that you thought was yours. And you're being told to audition, and they also have reality cameras. It's not just you, right? Like, there's something to say about, and I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but to be a performer, and to be in Hollywood specifically, it is a very ego-driven industry, right? I'm sure people can be very grounded, but there is something to drive the ego in order to get accolades, and I guess in return have parasocial relationships and that sort of thing. So her, I don't wanna call it fake humility 'cause it sounds negative, but that veneer that she had, I was like, "Ooh." I was just waiting for it to chip away.

20:41Oti: Mm.

20:42KT: I was waiting to see, tell us what you really think. Like, let's see how you actually feel, 'cause people would constantly disrespect her, even the first season. But you saw her continue to smile, continue to buy gifts for people that she did not like, and smile in the face of people that were just outright mean to her for whatever reason. So when that happened, I immediately felt upset and said, "Please go back to pretending." Because there are some people that either they can't handle it, or you don't want them to have to go through the real shit that the rest of us have to go through.

21:22Oti: So true.

21:23KT: When she was living in her world with Marky Mark. But the first season, I think the second season was really what really got us, right?

21:30Oti: Mm-hmm. It's true. And just the depth, the characters around and the world-building, from Valerie's husband, and you see Mark in the background throughout, and you wonder how is he coping with all this, you know? Are they going to just sweep it under the rug? Is it going to come out in a different way? Even just the relationship between Valerie and Mickey.

22:06KT: "Why'd you tell them I was gay?"

22:11Oti: Oh. Wow, I don't know what else I could. It's one of those shows where if you've not watched it, you just have to.

22:25KT: Yeah.

22:26Oti: You just have to.

22:27KT: And absolutely stick with it. Not to say that it's hard to get through, but there are some moments where you feel like—

22:34Oti: Mm.

22:35KT: not where are we going, but is it gonna be worth it— wherever we're going? 'Cause I promise you, you're definitely getting to some very emotional and very emotionally rewarding moments, even from the first season, but in all three seasons. It's just really great, and we talk a lot about the ability and the experience. There are some things that you can only write. Say for example, friends and lovers, find another podcast that will reference Jordan Peele's Nope with The Comeback. But say for example with Nope, talking about Hollywood and the industry, you can tell Jordan Peele has experienced shit, right? And this is absolutely the channeling that's going on with Lisa Kudrow in The Comeback as well. There are idiosyncrasies that are so specific to the industry that it can only have come from experience.

23:27Oti: Mm-hmm.

23:28KT: It can't have come from the AI-generated Hope script. I'm not gonna say I'm on his ass. I'm not gonna say I'm on the team's ass, but something has gone awry. Something is rotten in the state of Korea Denmark.

23:44Oti: Mm.

23:45KT: But The Comeback, it was great. It was a time, and yeah, I just loved it. Shout out to, congrats to the Emmy.

23:56Oti: Congrats for the Emmy.

23:58KT: Ooh-hoo-hoo. How does it feel, my love? It's been a while. Stretch out the pen?

24:05Oti: Yeah. A bit rusty, but getting there.

24:08KT: Yeah. Thank you, friends and lovers, for joining us another week in the For Your Reference podcast. Do you have anything you want to recommend to watch in the meantime?

24:16Oti: Ooh, I am a bit late to the party, but I'm watching Fallout. Almost done.

24:24KT: Does watching include your eyes have to be open? I feel like you're happy nap time watching.

24:36Oti: No, I'm enjoying it.

24:36KT: It's okay. Walton Goggins can't hear this.

24:40Oti: I'm enjoying it, despite what you might say. It's quite fun.

24:45KT: It's not what I say. It's what you see and don't see.

24:52Oti: What are you enjoying?

24:54KT: Yeah, The Paper.

24:56Oti: Mm.

24:56KT: We watched The Paper. I don't think we did a full review. I'm pretty sure we did a Ref Max. But yeah, just really good. But Domhnall Gleeson, I don't think Walton Goggins is listening, but I'm sure Domhnall Gleeson is listening. Please do something we can love you again in because even you kidnapping Steve Carell will make the love come back because right now, yeah, I'm a bit frustrated with him, I must say.

25:26Oti: Mm-hmm.

25:26KT: But yeah, that would be my current rec at the moment, friends and lovers. And we said we're gonna start rewatching 30 Rock, which I'm very excited about. And we also have a review episode of 30 Rock, friends and lovers. But that's us today. If you would like to reach out to us, we're @foryourrefpod.

25:49Oti: Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

25:53KT: We're also on Hope Slop podcast if you'd like to leave a rating and review, and we'll see you guys next time.

26:01Oti: See ya.

26:02KT: Bye.