The Boys – Trial and Terror

Full transcript of The Boys – Trial and Terror.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household. And it is another addition to The Boys Biblioteca, friends and lovers go and check out our other two episodes, covering The Boys. We will be covering the third season today. Also a Quid Pro Mo shoutouts to Billy from We Watched a Thing. I went onto the podcast and called Toni Collette's Muriel character an incel. Enjoy, let's get onto the show. Hey friends and open cake hole lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your hosts KT

0:34Oti: and Oti

0:35KT: inject courage and open the door for a splooshy welcome into Noir flavored layers.

0:43Oti: length Mm-hmm

0:44KT: Enter the phallic hole with The Boys season three this week.

0:49Oti: Woo.

0:52KT: Woohoo. The first fucking scene of season three Oti.

0:58Oti: Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow.

0:59KT: If you were worried about my Google searches, you should be worried about them after that episode. Woohoo. Let's get into general stats and information. Eric Kripke is the guy to thank, so is Garth. Season three was released in June of 2022 out of Amazon in regards to actors. We have Karl Urban, Jack Quaid, baby Quaid. If you're nest Antony Starr, Laz motherfucking Alonso, Karen Fukuhara and Erin Moriarty.

1:31Oti: Nice.

1:32KT: Wow. Wow. Wow. Well take us Oti to first impressions. I'm pretty sure we've been on a beautiful splooshy love fest with The Boys, unless you feel like you were declining in season two. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, laser daddy, laser daddy, laser daddy.

1:51Oti: that. No, I did not feel any decline whatsoever. Three seasons in, and I've heard myself looking forward to Fridays, so, so much just because of how amazing the show is. is. It is I did not expect it to be this good. I did not expect myself to be yearning for Fridays to get there so I could watch and consume some. Oh, good, good boys, mate. Like I,

2:21KT: when, when Oti thinks he's Mother's Milk, but he's the cuckold stepdad. Okay. So it seems like it's, we're riding all of the highs. Were there any, not that there needs to be, but were there any qualms, quarrels or quandaries?

2:37Oti: Uh, not really. I know what you will say, but to me, I think it

2:42KT: know me. I'm fucking Mystique, man. Not Jennifer Lawrence and Anna Paquin.

2:49Oti: I know what you're going to say. I think to me, it just, I can accept a bit of waywardness,

2:55KT: Wayward Sons, Jensen Ackles, Supernatural crossover. Very nice

3:00Oti: because I know there's an end goal. I know it's going. I see it. And I'm there for it. So for it, for me to be, oh, snotty, naughty, I did not accept this NA bra. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed this thoroughly. Nothing bad to say about it. about,

3:19KT: okay, nice. Uh,

3:21Oti: you the side eye right now.

3:22KT: Yeah. Give me some fucking space in this TV criticism, Spacey motherfucker. I loved this season, as you said, it definitely didn't dip in quality, which is very rare for TV shows. Usually season two can get a bit wheely depending on the types of shows. What I will say though, is I think we forgot the intensity of the spice that The Boys offers, because in the meantime, we've satiated ourselves, we've obviously Umbrella Academy, go and check out both of our Chemical Romance episodes but also Doom Patrol and Peacemaker, which has been a lot of fun. And it definitely leans more towards the adult sort of entertainment of live action sort of comic books, but you fucking forget how fucking vile The Boys is.

4:15Oti: Mm,

4:15KT: Like like the Herogasm episode personally. It wasn't because it was, it was hyped a lot, especially from the cast on social media. But I think because The Boys is so fucking

4:29Oti: boy Ross,

4:30KT: But because The Boys is so unapologetically, so pressing fire, like the Herogasm episode, didn't get me as much as I thought. We were literally going into an orgy of supes. So I was expecting more, you know, back flipping off of walls and that sort of thing. But maybe, maybe that's just my jam. Maybe I'm Frenchie. Maybe I needed a little bit more, but yeah, like there is a, there is a boy shaped hole that can never be filled by anything else until it comes back. And I abso absolutely loved it. Obviously. I know that you're talking about baby Quaid. I know you're talking about Hughie, but you're not gonna take away from my delicious moment because I'm ran it and I'm gonna snap it off. I wanna talk about just general sort of themes. And obviously we're going to get into characters. If we're also going to talk about, you know, qualms, quarrels and quandaries, uh, Butcher was one of them, but anyway, we'll, we'll get to characters when we get there, but there are particular themes that I wanna dissect in season three of The Boys, more than the first volume of the comics of The Boys, but like your parents we're here to disappoint you

5:45Oti: discipline

5:47KT: so we haven't read more than the first what was interesting about season three is that we finally saw the big sort of storyline in the first volume, being that the Boys injected V. and it it's interesting cause that kind of confused us because we knew that from season one and it didn't get introduced into season three. And I kind of wanna talk about the integrity arc. I don't necessarily think it's a problem, even though we were waiting to see it. Um we already said spoilers We've mentioned it in both of Boys' episodes that it wasn't The Deep that dropped trout. It was pretty much the whole, all, all of the males cot. Sometimes when particular people say males, it has a venom to it um but it. it was pretty much all the male Seven that dropped trout and Homelander was kind of the ring leader of that. Mm-hmm it, it made sense that, you know, we were supposed to believe he was a Superman, Captain America type character. So we just believed that he was a great guy. So I understand why they didn't pivot the dropping trout gen genuine not um with Starlight Like I understand why they did that interesting when they try to introduce integrity, especially to a show that is so fucking vile, like it's compound vile. That's absolutely what it's about. Um so I guess what I really want to talk theme was introducing the integrity because in, in any sort of sense, it was made clear, especially with um you know Starlight character and also with Kimiko's character that it was against their will and they became monsters through, through no fault of their own.

7:36Oti: Mm

7:36KT: And if they could ever take it back, but apparently Kimiko changed their mind, but if they could take it back, they would, they would want a normal sort of life. So it's not a life that they would've wanted to choose. And to be fair, they have been weaving that throughout season one, but I personally didn't necessarily care for the integrity arc, especially because it was hinged on Mother's Milk a lot. And I just wanted to see Laz Alonso, you know, Mother's Milk, lactation edition. I just wanted

8:08Oti: Wow

8:10KT: I just wanted to see, is it wrong? Laz Alonso areolas, don't worry about my web search friends and lovers. So what right. And friends and lovers. If you watch The Boys and you get squeamish at our fucking podcast, that's on fucking. So, what do you think about the integrity arc? Because we talk about power hierarchy a lot, and I think it's quite clear unless they inject compound V there's it's not even a fair fight. We're not even talking about being the same level of the supes that have been injected for that long longevity. Right. We're just talking about being able to go toe to toe or to be able to defend yourself because there's no contest. You can't fight the supes without any sort of compound V

9:03Oti: yeah I I just think it's a way to drag it out a bit. I think everyone would use comp V eventually, but with this, the problem was that, especially when it comes to Butcher's perspective, Seeing how useless and how powerless he was against Homelander when he was trying to save, what was his wife's name?

9:27KT: uh Ryan fuck Becca Becca

9:32Oti: Ryan is the kid

9:33KT: Ryan is the kid, but her name was Becca.

9:37Oti: How useless he was when he was trying to save Becca from Homelander. Yeah. Fucking Ryan had to do everything. And that was also fucking accidental. that feeling you could, you could see, he was never, ever gonna let himself be that fucking weak. Yeah. That vulnerable ever again. Yeah. The one time he was needed, he couldn't do shit. No one from those boys did anything. couldn't they couldn't Exactly

10:06KT: But that's what I'm saying. They've kind of written themselves into a hole Now

10:10Oti: there's only so much you can there's only so much reliance. You can put on Frenchie to come up with some. And how you deliver it.

10:17KT: Monur

10:18Oti: yeah. It, it won't work all the time. Yeah. You have to think outside the box. If you have to beat them, there's no way you do it as just, oh, just going do it as bulls. Okay.

10:31KT: Like it's not the power of friendship that's going to like take over these supes. There's there's no way that, that, like, that's what I'm saying. It's not a fair fight and they've kind of written themselves into a corner because what the fuck else are you supposed to do? And I guess if we reference um Invincible right The animated like, no, one's stronger than Omni-Man. Right. and I guess even if we go to Dragon Ball, are you interested in the new Dragon Ball series? That's gonna be coming out to an Oti.

11:01Oti: a not really

11:02KT: really. Okay. Good for you.

11:04Oti: Um

11:05KT: well I guess while we're here it'll be is more like Gohan or more useless, like Gohan or he is more like Goten. Um but yeah so and even with So like Homelander is kind of there. No one is really touching Homelander. They're not just scared of him because he has a lack of humanity. He is a strong motherfucker. He's also a vindictive one, but he's very, very strong. No one goes toe to toe with Homelander at all. That's why, when we had the final showdown with Homelander, Soldier Boy and Butcher, like it was, it was a non-con. So there was just wasting time with choreography and a fight

11:45Oti: thing

11:45KT: no, but let's no, let's be real about it. And I don't need to, I, I promise you, I promise you friends and lovers. I can sploosh myself over many things, but I do not need to see a baby Quaid flinging his little baby member around. I don't need. Like that was so useless. The fact that they had three against Homelander, but you wouldn't really call Hughie. He's more of a liability. You would have 2.5 people fighting Homelander and they had already done it earlier in season three. Like it was not a contest we didn't have, as you love to make fun of me a delicious montage. So nothing had been gained from the last fucking battle that they had. It was a waste of time. You tell me, is can anyone go toe to toe with Homelander

12:32Oti: Yeah Maeve out of fucking nowhere.

12:36KT: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

12:39Oti: Have you forgotten bra

12:40KT: Okay Well this is just it, because this stays on the same theme of like integrity and friendship wins all riding on a fucking rainbow. If you pardon the Maeve queer pun, what the fuck? What? That doesn't make any sort of sense, because we're absolutely not victim blaming, but she had that strength the whole time. She had that strength the whole time. Why the fuck did she not break herself out of the prison in the Vought Tower?

13:09Oti: I have no idea what she's like that came out of

13:13KT: She was Scrappy-Doo-ing that bitch

13:16Oti: it was wild I was like you can do this. You can, you can, you can fucking stab Homelander his fucking ears. Yeah. You can take him to the fucking edge.

13:28KT: Yeah

13:28Oti: Yeah. And, and, and like, where was this? The past fucking two seasons.

13:34KT: Okay So I would say it was a plot hole in writing so we could have a more compelling fight scene.

13:39Oti: It was always implied It was always implied. That Maeve is strong to the point of Homelander being like, oh, oh, baby will be the best, you know, with your strength or whatever. Like there's the implication. There's the implication that she is strong to a degree, but not what? Not to the degree that I expected to see Maeve do. I was like, well, what I was shocked

14:08KT: it's, it's something about the writing. I'm a bit, cuz it's cool. If you wanna have like a level integrity saying the most depraved motherfucker on a podcast. It's cool. If you wanna have integrity, like woven into the storyline, but it's a unfucking contest at that point,

14:25Oti: It felt like Trinity fucking flying from Matrix.

14:31KT: Oh

14:33Oti: It felt like Trinity bloody flying.

14:35KT: Thank you Oti Wachowski

14:38Oti: I was like, where? I dunno. I just, I just got confused. That scene blew my mind. I, I didn't think it would be. Cause I thought Homelander wasn't just being serious. Yeah. But clearly he was being pushed to a certain degree.

14:50KT: That doesn't make any sense. Yeah.

14:52Oti: Cause it was like. Don't do this ma I I'll I'll I won't hold back. Okay. Don't hold back. He didn't. Yeah. And still he was nothing. His fucking IRA. IRA. Ray, is he called?

15:11KT: laser

15:13Oti: His bloody laser eyes. Didn't do shit.

15:17KT: Yeah. Major laser Homelander edition edition

15:20Oti: Oh I don't know. I was just bewildered by,

15:24KT: Cause we, we talk a lot about power hierarchy and go and listen to our Mortal Kombat episode cuz that power hierarchy um discussion was very interesting even though Oti needs to sip on the concrete for Goro they did your guy dirty Oti.

15:40Oti: They did

15:41KT: Like we love talking about power hierarchy, but I just don't understand like that, that, that particular theme and that trying to draw on the integrity, it didn't necessarily make sense. to

15:57Oti: It didn't make sense And I think to the point where you get people like Mother's Milk and Frenchie being useless, so disgusted by Butcher that the fact he would even do that. Yeah. Like you're dead to us. I'm like, what do you expect from him

16:15KT: Yeah,

16:16Oti: he's lost Becca.

16:18KT: Oh no, no, no, no

16:20Oti: the first two fucking seasons looking for Becca trying to get revenge for whatever fucking ho that had done.

16:28KT: I see. While I'm Googling Alonso areolas, you are getting radicalized on the

16:34Oti: IWE

16:34KT: No, sir. No, sir. No, sir. Not in those damp corners where there's only male adrenaline. I refuse you are not defending Butcher and I don't wanna hear it. And we're not talking about Butcher right now

16:48Oti: Uh I'm just saying it makes sense. It makes sense what he did every action to the point where integrity doesn't even come into the picture because no one else fucking has integrity.

17:00KT: Yeah Like you need to be a little dirty to defeat evil.

17:04Oti: Everyone's daddy

17:06KT: Just make sure you do your taxes, friends and lovers. . Um thing I DIDNT necessarily care for. Um something that I wanted to talk about it it kind of is a Um but it, it it's more so just feeling Cy. How do you say cycl

17:26Oti: cycl,

17:27KT: cyclical, It's more so cyclical, storytelling what were your thoughts on the whole story of, uh, Soldier Boy dying, but not necessarily dying, but to me personally, and I'm coming back to power hierarchy, I still feel like Homelander is like the new and improved. Version, but I just wanna get a grounding of how strong you think Soldier Boy is

17:54Oti: soldier no Soldier Boy name is. Soldier Boy, Tell him his his, his strong, you know, but to the point where they got Homelander and they're like, eh, we don't need this guy. We've got a better version who can fucking fly,

18:14KT: but it's his own seed as well So

18:17Oti: Like he is his his new improved. So I didn't think that Soldier Boy could actually defeat Homelander.

18:26KT: Yeah

18:26Oti: Given the chance, given two to two, given without any disruptions from the Maeves and the Butchers I don't think, I don't think it happens.

18:36KT: Yeah

18:37Oti: Like probably it would be to the fucking brink, but no, somehow, somehow he'd manage because I don't, I think he, he can still survive, uh, Soldier's nuclear, if

18:50KT: yeah

18:51Oti: Maeve can survive it, fucking soldier Homelander can survive it.

18:55KT: it Yeah. But we found out that Maeve is the most strongest motherfucker apparently. Yeah. stronger She's the bloody rookie of this. and lovers on your bingo card um oh fuck wanted to talk about is show, ah, fuck. The next theme that I wanted to talk about is social justice. There was an example where it was done very effectively, and there was an example where writing wise it was done effectively, but from a character point of view, it was fucking Butcher. If you pardon the pun, uh, I feel like the most effective would be Starlight and using her celebrity in using her power to really highlight the issues within the establishment of Vought. Um and I guess where it didn't necessarily land was the poor man's Wakanda with wannabe Killmonger, Oti

19:55Oti: A-Train to Africa. You don't wanna go there?

19:59KT: on that midnight train to Africa. um so where do you wanna go Who do you wanna go to first

20:06Oti: that's with a like

20:09KT: Boo

20:10Oti: I think this season, he we've seen the most development from him as a character.

20:16KT: He, he was more fleshed out. I don't think he

20:19Oti: no he developed he came to realize just how ridiculous he was.

20:23KT: Okay. This is where we see your black tax Cuz he was fucking useless

20:26Oti: He was useless, but he did land. Didn't he, to the point of understanding that he needed to do something albeit being confused and fucked up, he still felt like he needed to step up.

20:38KT: What's the man. Was it storm Eagle

20:41Oti: Oh I can't remember

20:45KT: Um what do we just say Who did A-Train, Blue Hawk. There was a lot destruction that happened before we even got I know I keep referencing Django but you made a point about Django to get to Hilda. He let so many black people die along a train because it's also when he wasn't athletic anymore, when he felt like a fat ass, because Homelander was making fun of him drinking milkshakes, when he was no longer viable as a particular product, as a particular brand, that's the only time that he looked up and realized there was a community he was supposed to take care of

21:36Oti: but we've realized that a lot of people don't look up. So

21:44KT: Oti, feel free to stay on the side of white academics that ignore indigenous and black voices. Fuck you.

21:50Oti: Oh wow Yeah. Wow

21:52KT: You're you are the A-Train of this fucking podcast.

21:58Oti: okay

21:58KT: down with A-Train, fuck you too. If you are down with Adam McKay, fuck you too. Fuck you. As a record label and a motherfucking establishment Oti

22:09Oti: Oti well I was gonna say A-Train, he's he has his faults. They all have fucking faults. No, one's fucking perfect in this, but

22:20KT: no one is perfect in this podcast

22:23Oti: but sometimes you've gotta be taken but sometimes you've gotta be taken down a notch to go up to, to, to build yourself, you know, and he tried to do. In the most stupid way possible, but he tried

22:38KT: he's endangering other people because he continually chose not to learn the lessons. He was being forced to face even with his brother. And he kept, he kept trying to tell A-Train, you know, you need to stop this. You need to stop injecting V you need to stop running. It's not good for your health. And then what did he do? He utilized a community meeting as a photo opportunity with Blue Hawk to have some sort of reconciliation. And what happened? His brother was the shrapnel. His brother was the effect of it

23:14Oti: Well, he was sort of forced to do that. So you could, you could take away from, you know, you can put some column, a column B stuff here. He was forced to do that meet. Granted, he doesn't even have the part to fucking say. It's I understand why he was so keen to be seen as someone who stood up for his people, you know? Uh, good intentions. I know. I always say it doesn't mean shit, but at least he could see hard. Some

23:44KT: I, I swear Jessie T. Usher definitely audition with um Regé-Jean Page's Chicken George Jesus Christ. Was it Roots or Underground?

23:56Oti: Railroad, Underground Railroad

23:59KT: I said it come and fight me

24:01Oti: Roots

24:03KT: Roots, motherfucker. Do you watch. I don't know. I think you're being a bit too lenient. I think if you're going to utilize your platform to talk about social justice, Starlight definitely did it in the best way you were saying he had no choice, but he decided to want to continue to be plugged in to the Vought matrix. So I guess you could say he had no choice, but he had a choice to be a decent, fucking human being. And the fact that his brother had to suffer the consequences for his selfishness is insubordinate and Trish

24:38Oti: At least he gets his heart back You know, he gets to run again. Oh, because what's the point of having someone who's called A-Train, who can't fucking run,

24:49KT: Well, he can run a train on you, I guess,

24:51Oti: get to Jesus

24:55KT: problem. Thank you for meeting. Thank you for meeting KT. The Boys edition. Yes. There is a difference to every other KT on different episodes.

25:06Oti: apparently fucking

25:07KT: sorry. again tax because A-Train isn't worth shit ain't ever gonna be worth shit. He's a useless character and he's gross and I don't care for him.

25:21Oti: Okay You heard

25:24KT: let's talk about Starlight because I was very impressed and I must say that she won me over completely

25:31Oti: Mm. I wasn't the biggest, final Starlight, but this season she really stepped up. Yeah. She wasn't, she was quite decisive on what she wanted to do. Absolutely. And the fact that she also called bullshit on a lot of Hughie's shit. I was there for it. yeah

25:51KT: Yes, because I think in the first two seasons, I did get a bit frustrated with her self righteousness. They didn't necessarily all the way spell it out. That potentially Maeve was victim to a lot of harassment and assault from the Seven. Um but there was definitely a self-righteousness that Annie in, in judging or being like, why didn't you do anything? And it's like, bruh, focus on your own like, focus on your own. Don't come for Maeve. We're supposed to be attacking the men don't attack Maeve. Right. But what we found is that through unfortunate experience, through her own gusto, through her own hands, she has found her own voice

26:34Oti: mm-hmm

26:34KT: and she's fucking sick.

26:37Oti: It yeah

26:38KT: Even her little baby boo boyfriend, I'm like, don't involve him. He's a non character. And we need, we haven't had our death of season three. Like I was like, leave him alone. I don't know about that song as a grown man singing it, but maybe that was reason alone to get rid of him. Um but and I guess we could call Mónica in La Casa de Papel. Like I know you as Mónica, don't try and call yourself Stockholm. I'm just going to call you Starlight

27:11Oti: Yeah I, I I'm with you on that. I think she just really stood out in this. She made a lot of decisions where her naive, she wasn't naive anymore. She saw the world as it is and how fucked up it is. And she chose to take control of that. Whereas in season one and two shows always against, Ooh, Christianity, kumbaya nonsense, you know um once she broke free from that and saw just how is and the fact that she was, she had the CAS who stand up to Homelander, regardless of whatever she knew. She knew Homelander. I could fucking snap her in half.

27:50KT: And that's actually yes, because I think, I think the difference is her convictions were tested. That's not necessarily what we saw in the first two seasons. And she really stood by her convictions, which is very admirable because even Neuman tried to shake her down. And she was like, if you wanna pop my head off, fine, go off sis. But I'm not, I'm not playing these dirty games anymore. Oh, Many splooshies at Starlight's altar. I just fucking, it was fucking primo stuff. I tell you, how did you feel if we're talking about primo moments in season three? How about when Starlight was recording Homelander?

28:32Oti: Yeah Oh

28:33KT: just, oh,

28:34Oti: just what was it We were we were practicing our lines. Yeah. Oh, we just practicing our lines.

28:42KT: But I think it, it was also interesting because you see the face crack of Homelander because he is, so he is so conscious of the image that he presents to the public. And he really, you know, through, through many of his other faults, he is able to really curate the image that he wants to push outward. Right. And like, even in that scene, he was really getting the upper hand on Starlight and I'm like, come on girl. But then it made sense because she was, you know, she was really digging into that moment. Oh. And it was so delicious. It was so good.

29:19Oti: It was

29:22KT: I wanna spend some time talking about Noir. I don't, I, I definitely don't think shout Nate Mitchell who plays Noir um I don't think he gets a lot of time but that's, that's pretty much granted because he didn't really do much in the first two seasons. Um but what did you think about his He's like our Jack Nicholson in Shining, like he's been around forever. What did you think about his

29:49Oti: It was good to see his background. It was good to see why he is the way he is. Yeah. And the decisions he makes. I appreciated it. Um I just didn't I've not really bought to the at. um he looks like a cool character on it just doesn't translate to me. I, I feel like there's a connection missing and even looking, seeing the backstory and understanding everything that came before, I just wasn't there. It was, ah, I just didn't connect with him at all. So when he, when he bloody he died, I was like, cool. Like, I didn't feel

30:26KT: Wow

30:27Oti: It might as well been, have been Starlight ex-boyfriend like, I, I just was like,

30:32KT: wow

30:34Oti: no, like what, what has Noir done that has made you feel a, a connection or tethering to him as a

30:40KT: I got no, but I got some tender moments watching a lot of Noir's backstory, because again, like you said, we didn't really get a lot of context to the character that he was, he didn't necessarily offer a lot, but to understand that he went through a lot of like, bullying really, like, especially at the hands of Soldier Boy, like it, it kind of felt like a vindication at the end of the season. And I'm surprised you didn't gather any sort of depth at all for Noir's character character

31:12Oti: No, I got in and understood it. I just didn't care. I think that's the problem. I think it was brought in too late because the minute they decided showing that shit, I knew that he was just gonna die. Like there was no reason for, for them to show it to us

31:26KT: It felt cheap. I do agree.

31:28Oti: Yeah. Like it's the classic Telemundo sort of it's the classic Telemundo sort of vibe, you know, I just like, yeah, he is gonna die. And I knew that for a fact.

31:40KT: Yeah.

31:41Oti: To the point, I was like, okay, it's a bit too late. I would've wanted to know this in season two, maybe so we can give him a bit of more teeth,

31:50KT: Uhhuh

31:51Oti: but I don't know. I just felt like, and for someone who was so close to supposedly Homelander. Who looked up to Homelander,

31:59KT: hang on a second, hang on a second. He was close to Homelander in the way that Maeve had a relationship with Homelander.

32:07Oti: I see that but he's still withheld important information like bro, like you could have done anything you could have said to shit, shit Homelander. You have a dad out there somewhere. Look how Homelander was only fucking crying in the mirror all the time. He's seen that shit

32:26KT: I

32:26Oti: kept quiet. I swear. I swear if I was Homelander, I would've busted. I would've been more brutal in my killing of him.

32:35KT: I don't think anyone has ever had that specific take

32:39Oti: Whoa

32:40KT: who feels that much sympathy for Homelander to the point where you don't even feel sorry for Noir

32:47Oti: you've said, you've said Homelander guys, fucking drinking milk. TIS.

32:53KT: that's not a da. That's not a daddy issue thing Let's let's make that very clear

32:59Oti: No, but you can tell and, and Noir knows all this shit because he is always hiding somewhere and he always has fucking visibility

33:06KT: but you always give kudos to the characters that find a way to survive Why not Now

33:12Oti: He wasn't clever about it. If you are tethering yourself to Homelander mm-hmm and you think that he's your buddy and he's gotta help you defeat Soldier Boy, his dad who you know, was his dad and you didn't say shit. Bra nah, nah the word Noir deserved, everything he got. And then some I think he, I think he actually got off lightly. I think I would've

33:39KT: just bro. just put it in misdirected places

33:46Oti: I kind of wonder if Homelander could see those little cartoons or. Looney Tunes. Um Noir

33:52KT: I think it was more of a coping mechanism

33:54Oti: cause I think I gone for them fast Right. I would've just popped them up.

33:59KT: whoa

34:03Oti: before we even get into the main course. Oh no, just anyway. Yeah, but I didn't feel anything for Noir. I think he's just been such a peripheral character that even trying to put some back story in now felt a bit too late. And I was like, yeah, I knew what was gonna happen. And I just didn't get on the train.

34:23KT: how interesting, how interesting. I, I really enjoyed it, but maybe it's because it, again, like you said, it was high time. We got some sort of dimension on Noir. Um I guess you could say to die and be filled so we can continue on with other stories. I, I, don't a hundred percent disagree with you. I just don't understand. Like, I didn't even realize you sympathize that much with Homelander.

34:54Oti: me

34:55KT: tell us you have bosom fantasies without telling us you have bosom

34:58Oti: haven't who doesn't

35:00KT: Well, The merchandise is the merchandise And I will not apologize how I record this fucking podcast.

35:09Oti: Mm-hmm

35:12KT: okay. Um I wanna talk about Hughie very quickly I don't spend too much time because unfortunately he takes a lot of real estate. However, he is my go-to example of characters that take too long to accept their world.

35:25Oti: it Mm-hmm

35:25KT: Mm-hmm in the, in the For Your Reference curriculum buy online for 10 easy installments friends and lovers. So with Hughie, This season was my point of vindication because Hughie was always weak. He was always a weak motherfucker, but this proved that he wasn't worth shit because you can have the strength, which is what he injected in this season. But if you are a cowardly motherfucker, it doesn't matter. If you're going to have like the strength you're going to move in ways that are motivated by fear. So you're never really going to have the upper hand

36:07Oti: bro wasted a lot of time going, trying to do things the right way when he was working for a supe. And I think that just broke him. He was like, oh, what was the lady who popped

36:20KT: Neuman

36:21Oti: Neuman, oh, I'm gonna turn on myself to Neuman, you know, and spend all this time trying to do things that correct way. And that didn't fly because Neuman is the one who's fucking killing everyone.

36:34KT: What's the go with you? Um defending shitty men incelsunite.com I'm not defending him. I'm just saying it's understandable. What, why he acted the way he did. because he was emasculated by a powerful figure Like Starlight Fuck you

36:50Oti: I, I did not see that

36:52KT: is it wrong though?

36:55Oti: well,

36:55KT: cause she did nothing to emasculate him. That's how weak he. Just the presence of her power, intimidated him to the point where he fucking cuck emasculated himself. He wasn't comfortable with what he brought to the relationship that's on fucking him not Starlight

37:13Oti: No, I can just picture a situation where he gets threatened so much by Homelander in Star's presence, knowing that he can't do shit. And I think that gets to you.

37:24KT: Yeah, but to be honest, it was the feeling and the rush that he got, because he used that as an excuse. I'm doing it for you B I'm doing it for you B just like when I bring home cake, I'm bringing it for you. B no, it's for my fat ass. no, but let's be honest. Whenever he said he was doing it for Starlight, he wasn't, he wanted to feel powerful

37:48Oti: He did He wanted, and both things can be true. I think at the end of the day, you have to look at Hughie as someone who's trying to figure out how his place in this world, having lost so much and, and feeling not quitting the space where you see all this powerful people do shit. And I think this season he's taken the biggest step of the all in terms of being super decisive on what he wanted to do, him taking the V uh, and being like, you know what? Fuck this shit Butcher was right. We need to do things this way.

38:25KT: no, what you're describing is toxic fucking masculinity. You

38:30Oti: Wow Wow Then it must not be as toxic as you think, bro.

38:38KT: again again, shitty men incelsunite.com. I'm going, I'm going to ban the, your IP address to the website So

38:49Oti: sir nah, he's, he's a crop character. I I'm just playing devil's advocate here, eh, at the end of the day, at rescue anyway.

39:01KT: to him. Yeah. But exactly. But it's only because she's a woman that he had a complex about that shit

39:08Oti: No I I I think there's a space to feel inadequate regardless of gender. And he just felt he's been threatened so much and he is been put to the sword so much that you can understand him trying to feel powerful. Cause fucking Hughie has been useless for two seasons.

39:26KT: no, but that's what I'm saying. Even when he injects V he's still fucking useless. So that goes to prove it's not about physical strength. It's about physical man. I'm tapping into Laurence Fishburne in Boyz n the Hood. When my, her,

39:40Oti: But when When the pivotal moment came in the season towards the end of the, of the season where he was either, he was supposed to either inject himself with V or to rescue Starlight, or give Starlight the power. She needs to knock out Soldier Boy,

39:58KT: when he had his simp moment

39:59Oti: Yeah. He, he, he chose the correct thing that shows you growth. I think at least he understood that, Hey, I don't need to do this. My girlfriend is powerful and she can handle it.

40:10KT: That's a paper thin argument. It's the same argument you use for A-Train they have a shitty path of Des no, they have a shitty path of destruction. And just because they semi, because they're forced to make a sound decision at the end everything's Akay guy

40:25Oti: No, it just shows growth. It shows growth. Would that he do make that decision in this, at the start of the, of the season. No, he doesn.

40:34KT: Let me find out. You're protesting on the streets for men to feel like men again. um for Kimiko and she found out that you know Hughie had taken just one more dose, he would've died. Oh man. I was like, I wish I always just get one more good. Hit my friend Hughie.

40:56Oti: Wow. Wow.

41:00KT: Wow Wow Let's give some time to Mother's Milk.

41:08Oti: his decision making in this season.

41:11KT: Unfortunately I agree with you

41:12Oti: Like he knows. He knows Soldier Boy can wipe the floor with pretty much everyone. Yes. And he's so hell bent on doing it the right way.

41:23KT: Cause he's got credit

41:24Oti: Like if, if, if Butcher didn't take up V all of them would've been dead.

41:31KT: Wait, hang on. Wasn't there the scene in the final showdown where Butcher's, where Butcher was beating up Homelander and then MM. Was in the back soon. Yeah. and lovers and we love MM. Because that was the most that encapsulated the whole fucking scene where he just stood there at the end. And he was like,

41:54Oti: yeah He he just needs to get his head out of his ass I think he's, he, he, he feels like there's this a R to, of doing shit

42:01KT: But again I don't he

42:02Oti: in the way

42:03KT: don't chalk it up to MM's character. I chalk it up to writing. They fucking written themselves into a hole

42:10Oti: maybe So I just didn't appreciate all the back and forth. And him being a safe feeling as safe. It's all up to him to end this before he doesn't Yeah, exactly.

42:21KT: Like

42:22Oti: you can research all the things you want. You can have all the Intel you want but when it comes down to it, what are you gonna do?

42:31KT: You need the bra

42:32Oti: what are you gonna

42:33KT: You need the strength

42:34Oti: Oh man He was frustrating so much in this. I, I just like, I love him as a character. He's done so much and this is, and this is the difference, right? Because with, uh, Black Noir I didn't really care that much.

42:50KT: Oh, it is Black Noir. I thought his name

42:55Oti: previously.

42:56KT: Uhhuh

42:56Oti: Because we didn't, we didn't really get to know him. Yeah. With a man we've, we've, we've connected. We know his backstory. We know why he is the way he is. So when this season came along and he was a bit, if he at least there's context on understanding, oh, he's cool. He's just going through some shit.

43:14KT: not gonna lie. I did get emotional when he was talking about his

43:18Oti: Yeah And and, and for him to sort of understand that for where Butcher and here he were, it, it's not because, oh, we are just bad and we don't need anyone. It's more, what else are you going? Do you have to face exact, you have to face the facts of the world you live in. And until he does that, he's always gonna be the one whining and hiding behind a table saying, yeah, Butcher

43:46KT: but that's, but that's why I'm really frustrated, because again, it's not to do with MM's character it's to do with the writing. They put such a strong emphasis on tur, but then that means the boys are a non contest.

44:01Oti: Mm

44:02KT: Oh, actually, while we're talking about ter thoughts on Neuman, injecting a kid with compound

44:09Oti: she saw how Homelander can pretty much sweep everyone like

44:14KT: I think it's fucked. I think it's fucked because we see the relationship, the relationship she has with Stan Edgar. And you can see that there is, you know, there, there's obviously a lot of layers with Neuman, very, very similar to Homelander as well. Probably not as clinical as the upbringing that Homelander had. Um but I don't know to your child. I don't know. To me it feels different to, MM. Injecting V or do you think it's the same

44:45Oti: I think it's the same because Neuman was being faced with the threat of Homelander, uh, pretty much sweeping killing them And it was the daughter being of vulnerability. She can't do anything other than try and protect her to the best of her ability. By the end of the day, she cannot stand up to Homelander. Yeah. So what do you do in that situation? You make your, the, the one vulnerability you have not to be so weak.

45:15KT: Oh sorry I thought you said Hughie

45:17Oti: but, but seriously, like if, if, if you're in that situation, you could just imagine the, the sort of pressure and the onus, she would feel she's she doesn't have anyone anymore. Really? Yeah. You know, she's betrayed the one person. I don't even think she does trust there. It was just a relationship of convenience, but

45:37KT: I think she was a victim to Stan Edgar being a predator

45:42Oti: Yeah to that. Yeah. Surviving Edgar. Yeah. I, I know.

45:46KT: Wow.

45:46Oti: Wow.

45:49KT: Tell me, you've been pitching to BET again, Oti

45:53Oti: every day but it was, it was more understanding where that sort of relationship and seeing like she grew up so fucked up. Yeah. So it's no surprise that she would do this. It's it doesn't feel like bad writing. It just feels like necessary. It was necessary for that moment. And she would always do that because hurt people, fucking hurt people,

46:16KT: DMX in Romeo Must Die. Rest in love and peace and power DMX, and also Aaliyah. Okay, well, let's talk about another useless. Let's talk about Butcher Um Butcher. has been quite a forefront sort of component when we reviewed the other two episodes, uh, seasons of the I didn't really, I just, I don't wanna spend a lot of time on Butcher because he frustrated me. I think it was quite effective in season two. When they, when we actually met his dad, his reason we talk about parents and no one can fuck you up more than your parents. And that is the best example when you see it with Butcher. However, I think it was, it was willful manipulation from a writing point of view to continue to give us backstories of Butcher, to try and soften the blow of his. Audacity to continue to inject that compound. V I, I, I really feel like it was a willful manipulation to try and make us feel more sorry for him. But at some fucking point, you are a grown fucking man. And not even in a toxic masculinity way, you're a grown adult. Take accountability. You've been hurt in the past, but you are also hurting others your motherfucker

47:34Oti: And this is where we.

47:36KT: like grow up, go to therapy. I'm sick of,

47:40Oti: sick of I I didn't even talk mate Let me talk And this is where we differ. Uh, Butcher has, is the one that's sort of pretty much been through the most out of everyone. You, you can, you can understand you sympathize with, MM. You sympathize with Frenchie, but the fuck the fucking shit that Butcher's been through

48:02KT: mm-hmm

48:02Oti: fuck sakes. It makes sense who he is and how he is the way he is to the point where he, he can even fucking see it. You know, when Hughie says that shit, you know, there's, it's, it should be fucking obvious to everyone else. He, every decision he makes, however, fucked up is for the end goal and seeing him losing fucking Becca. I think that's just where like all fucking ties were cut. How do you, how do you recover from that? You have to protect the kid, Ryan of the wife who, you know, you have to protect the kid your wife had with fucking your arch nemesis. How do you, how do you contemplate all that?

48:53KT: I just like, I don't know. I'm kind of sick of it. Like go to therapy, like deal with your fucking shit. Yes. You had a miserable life, but you're making everyone miserable around you. And again, I think it's a writing thing because they really needed to lean into his feeling of the need to take compound V and it's like, bro, not even Homelander is that self pitying.

49:23Oti: wow So when he was ticking, when he was. Put on a daze and he was looking at, or relieving some stuff from his past. Did it not make you feel a bit sorry for him,

49:36KT: But you also heard Frenchie's backstory

49:39Oti: I did and and he got to be happy at the end of it,

49:46KT: Yeah. But come on, admit to yourself, there's a part of Butcher that never wants to be happy cuz he doesn't think he deserves it because his brother, unfortunately I don't wanna say committed

49:59Oti: died Lost

50:02KT: Lost his life and, and Butcher will always blame himself for it. And that's unfortunate and that's sad, but also for, MM, he felt responsible for killing his whole family was his whole family or just his grandpa who died

50:18Oti: Soldier Boy killed his dad. Why would, mm

50:24KT: mean? Like just let's get over it because we're going to just continuously have, this is, you know what? Cause we're going to the Kripke-verse. This is fucking Jared Padalecki's Sam being useless and useless and useless and useless for seasons. Granted, he was a big cry baby, but we've also got another big cry baby in Butcher. He's gonna continuously hurt other people and continuously not do the fucking work. I'm sick of it. I'm bored. I'm yawn.

50:54Oti: Wow I think this is where we have to draw a line. When you compare Butcher to Sam, to

50:58KT: Here I thought you gotta say something serious. The of fucking disrespect

51:03Oti: far I, I, I think I can understand the frustration around Butcher. I just. Sort of see it as him being him, finding a way to sort of cope and deal with it without having to

51:21KT: Your statement's a non statement, because so many characters have gone through a fucking lot

51:25Oti: but he's trying to get the he's the leader. He's trying to, if, if without Butcher those, those people don't do shit. MM. Would be crying somewhere in his fucking basement. Frenchie would be, I don't even know where, like to some point you have to pull your head outta your ass and just, this is what we are going to do. You don't have to like me tough, you know, just fucking tough.

51:54KT: That could be applied to Butcher though

51:56Oti: books. Yeah. But he asked to do that with other fucking rest of the crew. Who's gonna do that for him. No one.

52:02KT: All right. Well, let's move on. Speaking about the rest of the crew. I Kimiko was a bit annoying to me this season. I, I think if you're going to, cause again, I, we talked about it either in the earlier Boys episode or the earlier Umbrella Umbrella Academy. Ah, fuck. Can We either spoke about it in an earlier Boys episode or an earlier Umbrella Academy episode. I'm kind of sick of the silent Asian trope

52:29Oti: song

52:30KT: and they had moments of Kimiko singing, but it doesn't necessarily translate to real life. I'm not saying that we need to have Kimiko talking, but I just think it's a cheap out

52:42Oti: Yeah Yeah I don't, I can't disagree with that. Uh, she didn't

52:49KT: Oh, the first character you're not defending and curiously, it's a woman.

52:53Oti: Oh fuck Yeah

52:56KT: again, when's your protest for let men be men again?

53:00Oti: Uh I was just gonna Um I understand that she didn't want powers she missed her life. But the vulnerability of being in a situation where you see your loved one being hurt and you can't do anything about it. I

53:15KT: I don't know that little um uh celebrity apology memo note that compelling to me

53:21Oti: I I'm not even talking about that moment I'm talking about him I'm talking about her seeing Frenchie being fucking touched, almost killed. I'm not being able to do anything, you know, uh, that would drive anyone crazy. And it's understandable that she would want her powers back to be in a position where she can fucking protect the people that she loves, because she's lost so many people,

53:43KT: But is she a liar because you can kill someone, but she goes full Rambo on these motherfuckers.

53:49Oti: it didn't take too much to to

53:51KT: yeah. Yeah. And we're not even talking about muscle memory. Like she was having a good time. I was all about the dildo fight. See, this is how frustrated I am with Kimiko that we couldn't even talk about the dildo fight. I'm just frustrated with her in general.

54:06Oti: Yeah I can I can see your frustration but I think I'm more understanding to characters this season, just because of everything they've had to deal with. And they, they're sort of trying to balance the expectation, the expectation between they have within each other and, and what they want to get at the end of it. So it's understandable. She still wanted to be in France somewhere with Frenchie. That's not gonna fly because the world is fucked up. And once they start accepting the world, they live in where, oh, I'm going to be so angry because they force compound V on me and not live a fucking life. That's all fucking, so under the rug and let's fucking. Let's already.

54:53KT: Like I, I'm not gonna go all the way to say it was assault, but I didn't care for Kimiko kissing Frenchie I don't think that was

55:01Oti: Yeah A lot of people shoot their shot me

55:04KT: Okay. Louis Oti C.K. or Poison Ivy from Batman.

55:12Oti: Poison Ivy

55:14KT: You're Poison Ivy for another reason. Oti. So I didn't really like that Kimiko did that. She's also, she's probably also on your incel forums as well. Um I just didn't like it Let's talk about Frenchie I love Frenchie Let's talk about Let's talk about

55:33Oti: yeah he's been through some shit he's struggling. Um I We've seen the most from a character's perspective from Frenchie this season as well.

55:42KT: Thank you Thank you you.

55:43Oti: Um we've seen him sort of grow as well and trying to who he is and why he is the way he is. Yeah. And sort of him feeling the need to always be subservient to someone and trying to break free from that. Yeah. I think that was really interesting. He's he is, he is a good lad. Like he can tell he just has a good heart and he just wants to do best for the people he loves and the people around him. And sometimes that can be taken advantage of. And I think it's one of those things where he's trying to break free from, oh, I'm just gonna replace Nina. so. I'm just gonna replace a Butcher with fucking Nina or whatever her fucking name was.

56:25KT: Yeah. redheaded lady's of her hair coming think I wrote Ashley. Um Whoa whoa If you saw her hair, man, you can't, you can't blame her. she, she definitely should have leaned more to a crusty bear. incognito browsers, cuz this is a safe space. We're gonna finish off in this segment. We call For Your Reference, Oti,

57:04Oti: I'm gonna reference invisible

57:07KT: Invincible

57:08Oti: What did I say?

57:11KT: Isn't it Invincible. in

57:13Oti: It is Invincible

57:14KT: You said invisible

57:17Oti: I'm gonna reference Invincible.

57:20KT: Ooh, I'm gonna reference, do you really wanna, do you really wanna taste dad? on Twitter or app for your F pod

57:34Oti: write us an email or Hello, hello@fyrpodcast.com

57:37KT: we're also on Incels Unite, Oti edition dot podcast. We're also Oti podcast. If you'd like to leave a rating and review, and we'll see you guys next week.

57:51Oti: see ya

57:52KT: Bye.