The Black Phone – The Dark Grabber Rises
Hosted by
KT & Oti
Show Notes
Look both ways because Mr Masky is out the lookout. Answer the call coming from inside the childhood trauma with The Black Phone.
Episode Details
- Duration
- 0:00
- Released
- July 26, 2022
- Category
- Episode
- Hosts
Transcript
Transcript (7,594 words)
Full transcript of The Black Phone – The Dark Grabber Rises.
KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household and it's another Ky spooky review, but more excitingly Oti. It is our first ever invitation to an advanced screening. How exciting really? Really? Oh, have what I'm having.
Oti: Oh, this is posh Oti now.
KT: Well, still a wine sorority let's get on with the. Hey, friends and grabby lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT and Oti look both ways because Mr. Masky is out on the lookout.
Oti: Mm-hmm ready to grab them apples.
KT: Oh, I think I kind of wanna be grabbed then. Let's work on our screenplay after this Oti mm-hmm
Oti: but you won't be airing in a lot of countries
KT: though in our private, uh, heart and bed, chambers, friends, and lovers. answer the call coming from inside the childhood trauma. Ooh. With The Black Phone this week mm-hmm Woohoohoo. Let's get into stats and general information Oti. This film was released in September of 2021 in the Fantastic Fest. Uh, but most recently was released in Australia in July of 2022, hopefully friends and lovers. You've all gone to watch it. Spoilers, spoilers, spoilers, Sinister, grabby, Sinister, grabby, Sinister, grabby. If. Uh, this film was based on a short story, Oti, all right.
KT: By Joe Hill, who you will know as the son of the famous Stephen King. Okay. So I don't know if that gives it more graces or it gives it more accountability to be held to, but time will tell, I suppose we are,
Oti: my father's talent does not pass to like seed
KT: necessarily. Yes. And, and that is a taster of the reading. In in the For Your Reference dungeon, uh, sorry, bed chambers. that we reference with the early screenings. Uh, we have Scott Derrickson, C. Robert Cargill, as well as obviously all around the town. I was only looking at Denzel, but I definitely have a lot of time for the Ethan Hawke. Mm-hmm Madeleine McGraw was definitely quite a pull for this film.
KT: I would say for sure. She brought a lot of gravitas and we're definitely gonna talk about performances, but right at the top of this, and apparently they were scheduling conflicts and they, they made sure that she was available for this film. And I think that was an absolutely perfect decision. Yeah.
Oti: Everything else around her, for sure. Yeah.
KT: and also, Mason Thames also did a lovely job as well in. To the budget, Oti 18 million. Okay. Yeah. That's some Blumhouse money right there. Mm-hmm a world wide gross of 118.7 million Oti. Whoa. Yeah, that's a lot of. Open handed kid slaps right there. It sure is. Oh, Oti. I don't know.
KT: I perhaps maybe it was you starting off with, It's a Wonderful Life with the open handed kid slapping right in the face. Or maybe it was passing on trauma to an innocent kid in Soul Food, but there's, there's a running thing going on. Seems like it, it. Like it absolutely welcome. Welcome friends and lovers.
KT: Um, for those that aren't aware of the film or for those that would like a preemptive trigger warning, we will be talking about, uh, you know, a lot of trauma, the surrounding like domestic abuse towards kids. Mm-hmm Will Smith is safe out of this conversation. But we're definitely going to get into the film.
KT: Um, for those that are on our Patreon, we have covered Sinister and personally I really enjoyed Sinister. Um, and obviously that will come into how we feel about the film generally. But what were your first impressions? Oti? How did you feel going into this? You know, we talk about trying not to watch as many trailers as possible. If we know we're even a little bit. Did. Um, so how did you feel leading up to the film, watching the film and we've had some time to marinate now. So how are you feeling?
Oti: I didn't know what to expect for this movie because I really didn't know anything about it going in. Mm-hmm all I knew was there was gonna be Ethan Hawke in it Uhhuh, and that's usually enough for me.
Oti: Great pool. So . Exactly. So when I went in and started watching it, I, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the performances. I think the kids all pretty good. Um, there was nothing that took me out of the sort of element of watching. And I know that I struggle usually, especially in a movie theater where there's a lot of, sort of. Reactions or whatnot. Yeah. Usually that sort of takes me out of the moment. And I'm like, ah, Fuzzy Lumpkins really angry. Get out of my yard, sort of look Uhhuh and
KT: that Powerpuff Girls reference. I know I'll bring valley wherever I go.
Oti: So king, so I was. I was just sort of intrigued in seeing what this was gonna be and what role Ethan Hawke would play.
Oti: Mm-hmm the poster looked scary and I think there was sort of a fun, fair, you know, people taking pictures and I was like, whoa, this is kind of soy. Yeah. So it made me more intrigued into seeing, oh, okay. Now more eager to see what this hypo exactly the app was there. So going in, uh, I think I enjoyed it overall. I can't, I can't say that it it'll be something that I'll. Stick with me forever or something that we've watched a lot of Ethan Hawke, shit, that this will be like all the Ethan Hawke thing to go and watch. Yeah. Necessarily,
KT: but you didn't seem to like Reality Bites. So I would say that you enjoyed this more than Reality Bites. How dare you? Yeah.
Oti: Yeah. Let's sort of in the sort of same ballpark may
KT: stay away, stay away from my Winona Ryders then. Oh,
Oti: wow. you couldn't even get into watching Stranger Things, bro. So I don't know why you're saying wow. I'm just saying if you're a die,
KT: hard fan from Powerpuff Girls to Stranger Things. Tell us about your incognito search, sir. tell us you were at the Brony convention without telling us you were at the Brony
Oti: Oh dear, but like, uh, Ethan Hawke's character in this, um, Mr. Grabby Grabs, the Grabber. I, I just,
KT: is that, is that like, is that like Jordan Peele's next film? The grabs
Oti: yeah. Yeah, it would be a really great, um, sequel to slap. So
KT: go and listen to AKI and peel episode friends and lovers.
Oti: I, I think I, I sort of expected more from him because I felt like I didn't get enough.
Oti: And what I did get was either because he spent most of the time with the mask. Yeah. So I didn't know if I got the whole sort of Ethan Hawke experience that I wanted Uhhuh. It's nothing like, I, you know, when you, when you started watching, um, Halloween. Yeah. And wow. That was a whole experience. It was a whole experience.
KT: Right? Check out out. Still I'm still thinking about and LL Cool J can touch my Winona Ryders any day, cuz that's what I take out the Halloween franchise but it was definitely a lot to get through. Yes.
Oti: Yeah. But in, in, in the first Halloween we get to see a sense of who, of who Michael Myers is. You know, we, we understand we, we, we get where he is coming from and what is going to do.
KT: Ooh. You're being very spicy Oti cuz that's actually one of the themes I have. So be very oh, okay. Be very brief. Okay.
Oti: I, I, I I'll pull back. I'll pull back like Mr. Grabber. And,
KT: you know, Oti, not that anybody asks, but I'm updating my spank bank to have Jet Li with a cigarette in his mouth and Ethan Hawke sitting in front of the door, shirtless with a belt. If you're nasty,
Oti: come up and play.
KT: How you gonna have the film be 60% about the kids. And I just wanna be staring at that mm-hmm and I think that comes to, because we're going to get to the themes. Um, I, I guess I'll give my general sort of first impressions, all thirst aside, all Ethan Hawke, daddy Hawke, thirst aside.
KT: I agree with you because as soon as you put a name, like Ethan Hawke in a film and a lot of the aesthetics and. Face kind of reminded me of the guy's face in the first Lena Headey's Purge that was, do you remember that blonde hair guy? Mm-hmm with his face right on the, the circle. Yeah. Blonde trademark circle cam mm-hmm his face, just like the mask reminded me of that guy's face, but anyway, you put it in Hawke's name on it.
KT: You have a lot of his. Aesthetics around him being the Grabber and we're spending so much time with the kids. Mm. And that's, you know, and I guess maybe that goes back to like The Umbrella Academy. If I could lend a reference from there, it's like the grandfather paradox. It didn't make sense. Tonally. Cause I talked about The Umbrella Academy and tonally how it wasn't all the way The Boys for holiday, but it also wasn't kid preteen friendly either.
KT: And what I don't get about this film is tonally. It didn't make a lot of sense because you had young kids there, but then you also had kids getting beat. And I, I wouldn't say necessarily that you would want young kids to be able to sit through that. There's a difference between growing up in the eighties and 90.
KT: And, you know, sneaking tapes and watching it yourself and then like to have kids in a cinema or, you know, whatever it is people might be, but it's also rated R right. Mm. And what confused me about that as well is he's literally bra he's literally bra called the Grabber. And he takes children. I'm not saying I wanted to have like a Herbert the pervert situation, but Mr. Grabby Grabs, wasn't very grabby grabs and they didn't necessarily hint. They didn't even hint that. I felt
Oti: like our innuendos. I felt like theywe into, into, you
KT: know, know what I mean, if it's right at R. And they're going all the way with whipping a little kid with a belt. It didn't make sense that if he was like a pervert, he would've been a
Oti: Pervert.
KT: Yeah. I felt like those innuendos of something deeper than just, um, him capturing the boys and waiting to beat them to death or some shit. Um, but you see what I'm saying? Like, if, if you're going to say it, say it, cuz you've got the rating of raid R
Oti: yeah. But, or people don't wanna see that shit or hear that shit.
KT: Woody Allen who Kevin Spacey who? Oh, so it only happens when it happens in real life. Is that what you're saying? Oti, drew mate. Well, there you go. But that's what I'm saying. Like tonally, it was a bit confusing to me and even tonally and there's one of the things, so I won't talk too much on this, but ton, it didn't make sense on the Grabber.
KT: Okay. And I'll leave it there because we have a lot of themes that we're going to get to. And then we'll obviously talk about the characters as well. I wanna talk about aesthetics. I wouldn't say that this was directly in line. You already talked about Stranger Things earlier. Even if we talk. It your favorite Pennywise friends and lovers, even just early for your reference episodes, but specifically go and listen to our It episode floating on that fine dairy air for the title alone.
KT: Um, but you know, with Pennywise or in general, there's a lot of aesthetics or even Ghostbusters. There's a lot of aesthetics of like young kids in the. Right. Or eighties, nineties, you know, like there's this, that nostalgic sort of, um, wave of aesthetics that we are seeing now. And could you separate that and see this film for what it was? Cause personally, I couldn't, I'm just like, okay, so we're riding the wave now. No, I didn't
Oti: feel like it took away from anything. Um, I just thought, okay. It said in this time, that's fine. I didn't feel like those that, oh, let's jump on the bandwagon. Uh, to me it didn't make me, it didn't take it. Didn't take me away from.
Oti: I, I sort of thought it was sort of cool sort of cool time period as well. I just needed more from taking that aesthetic and elevating into the sort of horror genre I expected it to be with Mr. Grabber. There were a lot of internalized sort of horror in it. Which is fine. Yeah. Which I sort of enjoyed mm-hmm um, I just expected it to be more, not, not, not like a slasher or anything like that just, or make this stand out a bit more.
KT: Absolutely. And I absolutely agree with that. Um, I know we touched on it a little bit, but I do wanna have it as its own theme. I wanna talk about the violence in the film. What did you think about that? Brutal?
Oti: Um,
KT: but, but also like, we. We famously love Spartacus and we talk about loving Spartacus like, I think there is a time and a place for violence. Do you think it's the way that it was, it was portrayed in this film?
Oti: I think there's a difference though, with Spartacus it's grown us man, beating the shit out of each other with this we're introduced to, um, we get a scene where Robin beats, the shit out of a kid. Yeah. And I was like, bra, you know your children, right?
KT: what the fuck? I never. Stood there. Okay. So maybe Spartacus was obviously a very extreme sort of example, but in a lot of the films we cover there's there's there's absolutely. And even It's a Wonderful Life. I used it as a playful example, but there was also abuse towards children. Like we've seen it before as my point, but I also agree that it felt very stark and I'm trying to figure out why,
Oti: because it's, it's fucking kids beating the hell out of each other to some sort of. I get bullying. Andand it fucking happens. You get it, you participated . But I think seeing it in such a visceral raw way, just took me back a bit because at least in one time they used to be fucking lines. You know what thresholds they were here. You get kids kicking each other, hitting each other with fucking rock. I'm like what is going on?
KT: That's interesting. Cause I wasn't even talking about that. I was talking about the dad beating the daughter. Oh. That
Oti: made everyone in the cinema. Uncomfortable. Those dead silence.
KT: Yeah. But I, I'm not going to focus on it a lot, but just. The fact that we've covered so many films on this podcast, we've covered so many TV shows in this podcast. A lot of black narratives, a lot of even like Taika Waititi, like, Boy, I was very emotional and we talked about that. So like, we're not necessarily strangers, like we're not watching this being like, oh man, a parent hitting a kid. That's sci-fi like, , like, it's not, it's not fantasy unfuck. Unfortunately for.
KT: So, what I'm saying is why do we both feel like it was a lot in this film, even though we're not strangers to it, it was a white girl being beaten,
Oti: bro.
KT: Is that like, is that like our equivalent of white, like white guys seeing black elves? Like, is that, that where we start reality and fiction?
Oti: Yeah, I get so.
KT: But you are right. Cause there, there, there was a part of Gwen getting beat where I just wanted to be like step in and be like, Hey man, just beat me instead. like narrative for Mel Gibson's, uh, Passion of the Christ. But when Gwen was getting beat and I felt like I ne I wanted to like stand in for her.
Oti: A volunteer tribute.
KT: speaking of The Black Phone. Jesus was pretty useless. Yeah. He wasn't answering any prayer. Yeah.
Oti: Oh man. As soon as she started saying Jesus in there, I was like, You're on your own, at least help come either too late or at the end of the movie.
KT: And we know what happened. yeah, but that's something interesting. I, I don't think I can even articulate. Well, you kind of just said because little white girl , but. I can't articulate into words why I felt like, or maybe you're right. Maybe it was the cinema reaction because it was dead quiet. Yeah. Cause you felt people were shrinking in
Oti: their seats.
KT: Yeah. You, you felt he was, she was hit and then people were like, oh yeah. Okay, cool. It was uncomfortable, but not really. Bothered. And then it continued going on for like a hot minute. I was like, whoa. Yeah, this is, this is getting a bit too much. um, shout outs to our beloved Powell, Rob from Smoke and Mirrors. When they were doing a quick review, um, of The Black Phone, they were talking about how the dad offered ice after he beat her. And I'm like, what a luxury
KT: must be nice. Mm-hmm . Um, yeah, I just thought it was, I thought it was interesting, um, going into it, but I think you're right. I think based off of the reactions, but again, friends and lovers on another day, I'm not gonna, um, Kyle, Katie broski us now, but on another day we need to talk about how we're more comfortable watching. People or even black children get brutalized in slave films and not feel good about this little white girl getting beat with a belt.
Oti: Oh fuck shit. She's been never last. Right?
KT: that's what I said. We're not gonna do it today. Oh, we're we're going to stay in Sinister land. Um,
Oti: making, making me feel fucking uneasy.
KT: The no Hey. I'm just here to put, hold, hold some mirrors up Oti shout outs, again, to Smoke and Mirrors. We fucking love you guys. Um, before we move on to the next theme, I do wanna talk about something we watched and loved Sinister, and I'm not going to spoil anything about Sinister, but you know, shout out to Julio from the contrarians, another, another beloved Patreon of ours.
KT: Um, he mentioned that this was the Sinister crew coming back, but even if he hadn't have mentioned. I still would've possibly been able to draw it because again, a lot of the aesthetics that were using like archive sort of footage of like children in the past and even the scoring of the film was very reminiscent of Sinister.
KT: And the reason why I say that is because I really felt like Sinister was very effective. I really enjoyed the first Sinister at. Um, but because it hit so many of the same notes, but it wasn't necessarily executed to a way that I would expect from Sinister, um, or the Sinister team, rather, it kind of got in the way of me enjoying it.
KT: And then the next theme that we're gonna go into is also the fact that it kind of took me out of the film. And you already talked about it earlier, the horror. Icon it's become almost as popular as our power hierarchy, theme Oti. We're talking about horror icons and we're talking about not necessarily like the staying power because arguably Halloween Ends is coming out.
KT: Um, very soon mm-hmm so arguably you could say Michael Myers has a lot of. Staying power, whether you hate him or love him. Michael Myers is on top mm-hmm and he gone shine til it on drop. Yeah, go, go ahead and envy him. I think we've given the, the game too much air time, but I guess what I wanted to cover in this is the horror icon and I don't think we've officially ranked horror icons, but I think in, in the For Your Reference household at.
KT: We talk about the horror icons needing some sort of compelling fucking backstory mm-hmm like even with the most recent Netflix, um, Texas Chainsaw Massacre, there was no fucking rhyme or reason mm-hmm . Um, but like, I would say Chucky is like at the top for me. Um, but then if Oti's talking about people that scare him talking about Pennywise, no.
Oti: Why, why would I bring. Fucking idiot into any conversation. ridiculous.
KT: Who are you fighting you the whole Skarsgård family. . Yes. but like, for me, what's what, what, what is very interesting and compelling to me are the backs stories of the horror icons. And that's why I didn't necessarily gravitate to Michael Myers cuz he didn't necessarily.
KT: Say anything, either Freddy Krueger was a lot of fun or is a lot of fun. Um, Jason, albeit open, open mouth kissing our Kelly Rowland like, I don't, I don't, I don't necessarily feel like the Grabber worked because he was a very serious. SU sort of character. And then they try to have that line of having salt and pepper on his eggs. And I'm like, that doesn't make sense for the char it's literally Michael Myers. So if you were to get him to do something like that, that would be out of character, wouldn't it?
Oti: Yeah. But I think with this. Usually when we get this sort of first movie, the introduction movie, we get to see who the Grabber is. Not, not even to see who the Grabber is. So the introduction of the Grabber into the scenes, you know, okay. He does a, B and C. We don't know the reasons. And maybe this, maybe The Black Phone 2, then explores the Grabber as a character and why he is the way he is.
KT: Mm-hmm so you mean The Black Phone 2? The double grab. Yeah.
Oti: uh, like I'm open to explore that because I want to know more about, um, Ethan Hawke's character in this mm-hmm uh, but don't you
KT: think it would've been more interesting to be from his point of view? It,
Oti: it would've been, but I think with this, it sort of introduces, I don't know. And that's why maybe the confusion comes for you where we are seeing it from Finn's point of view where, okay. Kids, you are not really getting the kids to come and watch.
KT: Yeah. Um, who are you trying to attract
KT: you? But if you are getting the kids to watch it, these aren't the sort of kids I wanna associate with friends and lovers. We've mentioned before to go and watch That Damn Michael Che. There was a scene in there of like, uh, uh, a criminal that has been in prison for many decades, trying to like shake up the youth and make them, you know, try and go on the straight and narrow only to find out that these motherfuckers are out here really doing. Yeah,
Oti: dropping bodies. Exactly.
KT: So if you are telling me there are kids that wanna watch this film, I'm not fighting. Take my money. take my social security. Take it all.
Oti: No, like I, I, I, I do like the idea of the Grabber. I think it, it has more legs to me than, um, what
KT: was the reason? What was the reason why he didn't wanna show his face? He had a beautiful, lovely, A face that one might want to sit on. If you're nest
Oti: stick. I think it's a, it's a, it's, it's a psychological thing because the minute Finn sort of removed his mask, he had to hide behind. He was like, oh no, I can't chase you until I put my mask on.
KT: See, but it's even with the per angle, you had to fill that in. And now you have to fill in this mask thing. Why? No, because they showed. But it's rated at R so you can be explicit with it. So why aren't we being explained? He, because it just feels like he's wearing a mask for aesthetics now. I didn't
Oti: think it, I think he, he, he, he can become who he wants. He can only become the Grabber when he's wearing that mask outside of it. He's just a, a lonely Ethan Hawke in, in some suburban town.
KT: Are you saying his NCE? Oh, wow. He, he, he, he cos a handful and he says,
Oti: this is Venn. Maybe he just dis topi, uh, Zoë Kravitz undressing, and then he'll be fine. Don't we all .
KT: But I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't cop a feel if it meant I had to listen to her a speech talking about the white patriarchy fuck off. Even, I don't wanna hear
Oti: us either. Yeah. True dad. And then jump on top of him. Like
KT: okay. We'll be there for that part. Not the, not the lecture.
Oti: true. Yeah. I just think it made sense. Uh, his persona is tied to the mask and once he take the mask off, he can't be the Grabber anymore. And. To reestablish that connection to even chase after Finn, without it, he couldn't mm-hmm so to me it makes sense,
KT: but where does he stack on, on the, on the law of horror icons? I
Oti: think it's too, too early to base it off. Just the first movie we need, at least the second to see why he is and who he is and why he operates like this, what his strength, because he got actually he's fucking dead. Yeah.
KT: so unless you're gonna get a prequel prequel, prequel.
Oti: Oh, he got, he got out. Did by feeding a first movie, bloody hell.
KT: Yeah, because he did the choreograph step back. One step back. He was on the two step. He felt that bounce.
Oti: He was in the name of love. We can't say that anymore. Can't we?
KT: Robert Oti. Robert Oti. Well, now you're filling in the perverted layers there. You fucking go.
Oti: Uh, well, I, I think, yeah, based on last this movie, he told me to run.
KT: He fucking dead last because he got outwitted by a kid who wasn't even eating that much. Yeah, like do better unseasoned unseasoned bar. He's very kind though, you know? Yes. He grabs them. no, the guy cares now. We're just learning. O's murder. Grandi he
Oti: cares, man. Finn was being fed. He was just eating there.
KT: You're just grabbing. I,
Oti: he said as much, I think Finn was sleeping. He was there just looking at him. You know, if I wanted to kill you, I would've done it. If I wanted to do something else,
KT: you know, this is, this is giving Twilight vibes.
Oti: nothing beats beats. Renesmee. Uh,
KT: the GRS part of the co family
Oti: but he, he took care of these. He only turned, he only turned mean when they tried to run or they went upstairs to
KT: play. Well, they shouldn't be there. So of course they're gonna run Oti.
Oti: Well, at least Finn was told, you know, stay strong, try and you know, stay back.
KT: Don't go upstairs. I know Criminal Minds is coming back. I don't know why you're trying to audition for Shemar Moore. I don't know why you're trying to get in the mind of a criminal
Oti: I'm playing Mindhunter, bro.
KT: Let's move on to the next theme, um, that I have sci-fi slash fantasy element because this film isn't wholly grounded in reality, or I guess, depending on how your chakra or your Taurus moon rising or whatever you wanna fucking call it, this is those powers wasn't necessarily world. So I wanna talk about that element. Did it feel deus ex machina? Did it feel like a plot hole that needed to be filled? Did it feel like it was effective to you? What do you think?
Oti: It felt like she couldn't control it? Um, she only got glimpses and she was sort of dissuaded from using them. So I think there's that element of, she can pretty much see.
Oti: Everything is Uhhuh, but it's sort of controlled or she doesn't know how to work it because a, the dad won't let her explore those possibilities. Yeah. So to us it would be like, okay, she could probably solve this in a, in an hour, but she can't because she's never been practicing LA her dad's skipping the secret away from her because we can tell, oh, at least they tell us that the mom has. Had this sort of power, or at least she went insane thinking that she was losing it, Uhhuh . Um, but I just, I, I like for my powers to be consistent. Yes. I don't like Hail Marys at the end.
KT: I agree. I, I absolutely agree with you. Um, because it's like, it was, it, it might, it might have, they might have had. Some sort of idea for Gwen's powers, but it only really became useful when it wasn't necessary to the plot.
KT: You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm until like the end, when she was imagining the house and I'm like, I don't know, at some point she needs to E either she's harnessing it or she's not stop using it conveniently for inconvenient moments, but she's
Oti: still coming to terms with what the power is and how to use.
Oti: So it's not necessarily black and white. I can still appreciate that. Um, she knows where the vicinity of where the bodies are or where Finn is not exactly the location Uhhuh and it's all up to Finn. And I think that's where I got a bit more interested because Finn didn't wait forwe to come and rescue. Yeah. You know, it was all up to Finn to do that himself. Thanks to all the. People on the, you know, all the past victims that kept from ringing. Can we, can we talk
KT: about it because Finn was quite astute and he was very smart. Like even the way that he was trying to like climb the window and stuff, what kid comes with that? A starter pack sort of knowledge,
Oti: a kids that's adventurous. Um, well, he, he did have a lot of help though. A lot of people tried to get out of that basement and died trying. So with each iteration of everyone that died, that tried to help Finn, they parted knowledge and it's more okay, I'm gonna try and be resourceful. I'm gonna try and use this. I need to see how I can get up to the window. Um, so I think it's all stuff. It's all bond from experience of other, other people. Died. Okay. That's tried different things that didn't work for them.
KT: Well, I guess this comes into the next theme that I wanted to talk about who was on the other side of the phone?
KT: The dead kids. Well, okay. Okay. Okay. And maybe, you know, you always like to point out that I like to ground sci-fi shit, but this, I am gonna ground this film. I don't believe. That the phone was even fucking ringing. Okay. Cause even the delusional voices were saying only Finn and the Grabber could hear the ringing mm-hmm
KT: And even when we had our rest in peace Ziggy, two tabs, um, James Ransone playing Max, he didn't, well, he didn't have much time, but he didn't relay that he could hear the phone ringing. Mm. So I'm saying living with both Busta Rhymes in the Halloween. Feed on the ground, even though it didn't end up well for Busta Rhymes, but I'm saying that the phone didn't ring at all, but we
Oti: know that.
KT: So the, the powers can't be devoided from Finn completely because Gwen has some special sort of powers. It's it's well, you have the bug me, if I think that she has powers, wow.
Oti: It's safe to assume. Some aspect, maybe he's like, um, he's like Klaus in Umbrella Academy. That's a possibility,
KT: that's a possibility, but the world of Umbrella Academy wills it for you to believe in the supernatural we're introduced
Oti: by Gwen, knowing what happens to people and disappear.
KT: She knows there's two balloons. She knows details that she should not be knowing if, if, if she doesn't, if she doesn't. Powers she's perpetrating all this. She, she should be arrested. well, no, but I'm just saying, and I, I am aware of myself. I know I do try to ground sort of fan fantastical elements, but I would also say that this film didn't necessarily will itself to fully foray into the fantasy. That's what I'm saying. And I, and
Oti: I. But I think if you take away The Black Phone, that it that's the whole
KT: movie. Well, nice. See where I am. No
Oti: black. the whole movie. It's a concept of The Black Phone. Yeah. It's
KT: but it doesn't mean that it's real. I, I, I
Oti: get that. I get that. You wanna really ground this and make it seem, say Finn was just crazy talking to himself. That might be an interesting movie, but I think it remove. It removes the fantastical element that they've intentionally introduced to this. And I can't just, I can't, I can't divorce those two.
KT: Well, I'm here to separate that union, I suppose. Mm. Okay. So talk, talk me through it because the bodies were found in an opposite house. And that's where the bodies were buried and that's where Gwen took them very conveniently across the road.
KT: But anyway, um, and we saw the bodies there. So the bodies are physically there. So you are saying, cause I don't think we've actually said world star. I think we're going to get a For Your Reference exclusive. I don't think we've ever talked about whether we believe in ghosts or not. We've gone fucking hard on religion, but I don't think we've talked about ghosts. Do you believe there's a possibility of maybe not Bobby bow and Bobby Brown being mounted by ghosts, but do you believe in the possibility of spirits lingering? No. Until
Oti: I get the Bobby Brown experience, I'm not believing in shit.
KT: the why? Why are you so tethered to the idea? It belongs here because
Oti: it's a movie for one and you are allowed to color outside the bounds of reality, which I think they did.
KT: They did, but was it executed?
Oti: I think it was. I think the fact that we saw that the mom struggled with it so much. That it drove her artist. We told that it drove her, um, crazy. I
KT: feel like they could have expound on that a bit more too.
Oti: Maybe in the, in the sequel, you know, maybe it should, it'll probably pre
KT: saying there's a sequel. The
Oti: S get got prequel. Then, then we see where, how the powers came to be from the mother where she got them, how she acquired them and passed it on to Gwen. What's the deal with fame and hearing you mean Grabber Begins? No. It's like watching Sixth Sense and being like, now you, you can't do that. You know what I mean?
KT: Yeah. But like I said, like I said before, you're interrupted. Maybe we're setting up pet trilogy we have The Black Phone we have Grabber Begins and then we have The Dark Grabber. I'm the Grabber the city needs
Oti: yeah, that's a movie. Get behind. literally, if you're missed. Yeah, I know.
KT: all puns will be grabbed for. You should just
Oti: have the, and the soundtrack should be, you know, Juvenile's back Raab. that's that's one movie. I would go and play advance. .
KT: Say you're an ass man without saying you're an ass man, right? Oti. We are all
Oti: ass, man. I dare me.
KT: you better start squatting friends and lovers because you're gonna catch these Oti hands.
Oti: uh, dear me.
KT: Well, it's, it's a bit of a reprieve from hitting kids in the film. just gotta have Oti grabbing. I don't know visually, I really enjoyed it. Um, I really enjoyed if we're talking about the like fantasy element, I enjoyed that there was showing like the kids that obviously passed away and didn't make it. I liked the way that they conveyed that I don't necessarily agree or believe it, but I like the way that they portrayed it. There were absolutely some jump scares in there. Did it get you?
Oti: I can't. Specifically, but I think it was the first jump scare that I did not see coming. You know, usually they have like a trick where you think there's gonna be a jump scare and then they don't do it. And then they do it on the next one. This one, they took their time. Ah, I was like, yeah, it's not gonna be, it's not coming. And then it happened. I was like, fuck, trying to do to me.
KT: well, you just need a saggy ass and that will be your jump scare. Wouldn't it? Yeah. Saggy ass or flat. Both
Oti: I don't ask discriminate.
KT: oh, goodness me. Take the pen away from Oti. No screenplay should be viewed in our, in our sex basement or otherwise , let's talk about Terrence, not Howard. Um, but , he's got the hands for it. Uh, the dad .
Oti: Wow.
KT: um, the dad, let's talk about the dad thoughts feeling. His
Oti: shit, man. He's he is a crap dad. Yeah. You know, he's checked out after the wife died.
KT: No, but it's like, the world makes you feel small. Don't go into your house where you feel like the top of the hierarchy and like beat your kids to shit. That's
Oti: not right. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it happens more often that people want to admit, you know, um, but it's, it's definitely a problem. And I think the dad, when he is struggling like that, man, even if he fucking neighbors a shit, when you hear someone getting Uck, like.
KT: What's the neighbor he love, you were saying neighbors. And I was thinking of the Australian soap opera. I don't think anyone would intervene in Ramsay Street. Would they? Oh, they definitely
Oti: would. What they would. I think, I think you, you are a Home and Away girl. He didn't know how close people were on Ramsay Street.
KT: A nightmare on Ramsay Street. Am I right?
Oti: uh, but he, he he's a crap dad and, and even, even the moment where he starts apologizing towards the end to Finn and Gwen, I'm like. No, I don't buy that shit for what? Just because you, you thought you'd lost me, then you are all of a sudden now coming to apologize of the way you've treated us all this past few fucking years.
KT: Yeah. I would not forgive. I'm a vengeful motherfucker. Yeah. And I'll be there. I'd say with my powers, let, let me gather all this dead people to come and fucking torture you. . Okay. So you're okay with sci-fi elements. Just not parents apologizing for shit. They would never apologize for nah,
Oti: nah, that's the real fantasy, you know, it's fun.
Oti: It's fantastical to see that shit. I, I don't buy it. I get, he, he sort of felt that. Oh, I've lost Finn. And now I'm glad he's back. I'm gonna try and be a better PA person. Well, we know you're not, we know you're not, you're not worth shit. Like, come
Oti: on now. We you're trying to make us feel like we've just saw you the crap out of Gwen, huh? Yeah, no, not many days ago. Yeah. And all of a sudden, now you want to be father of the year. Bruises, bro. Yeah, nah, nah, I, I don't buy. I really didn't care for him at all.
KT: What if, um, Stephen still don't understand why they named Samuel L. Jackson, Stephen, but what if, um, Steve, if Stephen apologized in Django,
Oti: then you know, it's a trap, , you know, it's a trap, you run the other way, you do the opposite of what he tells you.
KT: No. What if Leo's character in Django apologized it doesn't
Oti: no, this Uncle Ruckus motherfuckers do not, nah, turn around
KT: and leave, turn around and leave. Absolutely. Yeah, but that dad can get fucked, like. Yeah, no, it's, it's not on like, and even if you wake up tomorrow and you find the Lord or whatever the fuck, like, if you decide or you wanna pretend you're a new person. Cool. But stay the fuck away from me. Yeah. And I think
Oti: we saw the best example in, um, The Harder They Fall. Oh yes. You know, with Rufus Buck. It died and all, yeah. I'd be vengeful as that. I would be woo. Bringing the heat. Yeah.
KT: but it's like, just cause someone's good to you doesn't mean they were good in their past life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely agree. Um, so let's, let's move into really the, the only other character that we haven't talked about that I wanna talk about is Max, because again, tonally. Film was kind of struggling to find its footing in the sense that it was trying to give levity through the Grabber, talking about salt and pepper on eggs.
KT: And to me it didn't necessarily fit. But as soon as Max appeared, I was all the way in Coke line, decide him with his little like investigation that he had going on. I thought that was really interesting. I thought he brought a really. Great sort of energy. Like if you wanted to inject levity, you'd do it this way. Oh,
Oti: Ziggy definitely paid his part in here. Um, I think the, the the funniest thing is he was so close to the truth. Yeah. And the cops couldn't give a shit because they, so they thought it was just some, you know, high guy who's, you know, microdosing on crack. ACR
KT: ACR, Royal junior ACR. Um, but two things can be true. Absolutely.
Oti: Yeah. Like if, I don't know, maybe, maybe it's just me, but I would listen to everything if I was a detective. Yeah. Let me see, sift out the bullshit on my own. I don't disregard
KT: anything. Yeah. Like, oh, can we, can we also put a little plug here for the Apple series Black Bird? Mm. Because what the fuck? Taron Egerton, um, as well. Paul Walter Hauser. Um, cause that was very confusing as well. Um, in regards to like detective work or poll natural poll lease. Um, and I guess on a tangent friends and lovers, if there are more titles and films that have the word black, but like's a predominantly white cast, we're fighting you go , you're gonna catch my diversity hands.
KT: But anyway, great TV show. Great TV show, rest and love and peace and power Ray Liotta and we will be talking about Black Bird. Um, but anyway, you're gonna catch my diversity hands in a second, but I, that, I absolutely agree with you because you at least investigate it for one
Oti: second. Yeah. I don't even think they're plotted shit.
KT: The fact that someone has done that for you. Just look for a second. Yes. See if it. Sense conspiracy theories aside, uh, a microdosing Ziggy aside. just it doesn't take too much. He was so close to the
Oti: truth and, and the fact that that'd hold up Gwen's evidence or, or Hail Mary predictions. I'm like, what are you
KT: doing? Yeah, the information was there, Bob
Oti: wild, wild, wild.
KT: Whohoo. Thank you so much friends and lovers for joining us another week in the For Your Reference household, we're gonna finish off in the segment we call For Your Reference, Oti.
Oti: I'm gonna reference Black Christmas. Ooh, OG. Yeah, because I think Billy had the opportunity to be one of the biggest. Horror icons out there just missed a step. They just needed to, I, I don't know, man, just fucking iconic. I felt like the Grabber had a chance to be that or to come close to that. but he was defeated by Finn.
KT: Oh well by friendship and power friends and lovers you were small.
Oti: Get out here. Fucking it. Flood hill.
KT: Still annoys me to this date. Say you haven't healed from films by saying you haven't healed from films. Am I right? Oti, penny
Oti: Pennywise, looking ass
KT: and I will reference Sinister.
Oti: Noice!
KT: Gotta do it. Mm-hmm the people's champ. Mm-hmm . If you would like to have your ass grabbed by the people's champ on Twitter and Instagram, we're @fyrpod, write us an email, hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on answer the call... The podcast. If you like to leave a rating and review, and I'll see you guys next week. See ya.
Oti: Bye.
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