The Big Lebowski – A Sobering Glass of Walter (with Filmbusters Ben)

Full transcript of The Big Lebowski – A Sobering Glass of Walter (with Filmbusters Ben).

0:00KT: Hey, dudes. Welcome back to For Your Reference. We are starting off with Quid Pro Mo. As you will hear, we had our esteemed one third of the holy trinity of the podcasting world, Ben from Filmbusters. Take the promo away.

0:16Clip: Hello. I'm Paul. I'm Adam. And I'm Ben. And welcome to Filmbusters.

0:21Clip: Three friends who love each other but hate each other's taste in movies.

0:25Clip: You just taste on burial, don't you? It was annoyingly. I think when I was watching it, was in a mood to be irritated because I get irritated when I see Tom Cruise straight away. How do you even get into a fucking acting career when you're that shit? The lines are awful, but you can't even deliver a shit line. Yeah. Listen listen right now. Let me just say that I wasn't bored at any point during the film. Oh, I not say can something? No. Don't. No. I'm going first.

0:50Clip: I'm done with it. Fucking white male here, I say to everyone all the time. It's particularly starting to piss me off. I don't think they should make any more Toy Story films. After this one, because Because it's the perfect ending to a Toy Story franchise. It's 10 out of 10. Fuck off. I don't think I can continue podcasting with you boys. I was shocked, Tim.

1:10Clip: Find Filmbusters on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all other major podcast platforms.

1:41KT: Hey, friends and lovers. Welcome back to For Your Reference. You've got your host, KT.

1:41Oti: And Oti.

1:41KT: And if you are learned, you have read the title, so you know we're in for a good time, and we couldn't have this good time without a friend. Would you like to introduce yourself?

1:58Ben: Oh, I'm the friend, am I? That's that's that's a nice way to introduce yourself. I am Ben. Oh, bless you. Bless you guys for calling me friend. I'm Ben from Filmbusters all the way over in London.

2:09KT: Nice. Well, thank you for joining us. As you can see, as an Australian Tongan, a Kenyan, and a Briton, we definitely know what we're talking about today. Well, hold on to your Johnsons. I hope you have some dirty underwear. Make sure you mix some Smirnoff, vodka, Kahlua, and milk because we are diving into the 1998 thriller, yes, I did, come and fight me, that is known as The Big Lebowski.

2:42Oti: Wow. Is it classified as a thriller?

2:45KT: I said fight me. I didn't mean so soon, guys. Welcome. This is For Your Reference. We have a nice collab from Filmbusters, more notably known as Ben. Let's just quickly go into the stats because there are some tasty morsels we definitely need to get into today. Like I mentioned, it came out in 1998. It is from the iconic, as the kids like to say, Coen brothers. The box office, we have a budget of 15,000,000. So I feel like that's applause and accolades alone.

3:20KT: The fact that they were able to achieve so much in the nineties for 15,000,000, thank you very much. I'll take another slice of Absolutely. And oh, this is sad. I really I really built it up to a crescendo, but the worldwide gross was 46,700,000.

3:39Oti: That's not too bad. They made a profit. I think That's okay.

3:44KT: I think by definition, my most learned fellas, that this is known as a cult classic.

3:49Ben: You got it. Cult is the words. Right? Cult is the absolute word. There's no there was no immediate love for it. It just it took time and energy, and here we are, what, twenty five years later talking about it.

3:49KT: My teacher didn't say I had the charisma of a cult leader for nothing. And I

3:49Ben: You are the Charles Manson of the podcast world. You know that. Right?

3:49KT: You are most welcome.

4:15KT: If this is your first time listening to For Your Reference, strap in or strap on because we are going to have a good old time. If you are listening again or if you have perused your way from Filmbusters onto For Your Reference, thank you. You are most welcome. We are going to have a great time today. I am very excited.

4:37Ben: Yeah. I'm I'm super excited. I'm super, super excited to talk about this film of all films with you guys. This is an eccentric threesome that we have going on here.

4:48KT: In all of the ways. In every in every definition of threesomes. Let's start off with a segment that we like to call For Your Reference. No.

5:01Oti: Are you going all the way to the end now? You know That would probably make any sort of impression for you at all. You know what?

5:10KT: I have had the most pleasurable of time watching this film and also preambling with Ben from Filmbusters. So I feel like I have had all pleasure. There is nothing else to achieve today. But for the sake of our listeners, let's continue in first impressions. I also forgot to mention the cast. You see this guy? I am sweaty. I am awkward. And if I was American, this would be my Sadie Hawkins dance. And I choose I choose Oti and Ben in that order because Oti definitely exists. We have Jeff Bridges.

5:45KT: I'm just going to keep going. Jeff Bridges, John Goodman, Julianne Moore, Steve Buscemi, David Huddleston, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and Tara Reid. And Tara Reid is all you need to hear, so she's the last one I'm going to mention for now. Let's get into first impressions. Ben.

6:02Ben: Okay. So you want me to tell you a little bit about how I first discovered this film?

6:07KT: Of course. So, you know, as our guest, you are most welcome in the For Your Reference household. The Big Lebowski is a cult following, most beloved, most cherished, not just in America as we are learning from this episode, around the world. How did you first stumble across it? Do you love it? Did you watch it recently in the lead up to this episode, and does it still hold up?

6:32Ben: Okay. So I first saw so I went to to film school over here in in The UK Mhmm. In a in a really ramshackle town called Northampton. And in my first year, or maybe it was the second year, the lecturer pulled this film out and put it on. I had no context for it other than that poster

6:51Ben: with, you know, with the toes and and Jeff Bridges and, John Goodman just peering over the toes. And I thought, what what is this film gonna be about? This is gonna be some stupid stoner nonsense. All I knew at this point was a stupid stoner film it was gonna be. Two hours later, my life had changed. I don't know what I had witnessed, but I knew that I had just seen one of the best films of my entire life. Twenty well, what? Fifteen years later or over twenty years after it was made,

7:19Ben: this film still remains in my top 10 of all time. Not only is it one of the most quotable films I've ever seen, it's one of the funniest and one of the smartest because it manages to, like, spoof and pastiche almost every iconic genre in American Hollywood cinematic history. And I don't know. I feel like I must watch it at least at least twice every year since then.

7:45Ben: Just I so just love it.

7:45KT: Just so whenever you feel like it, you'll be able to step on the shores of The United States Of America. Is that correct?

7:45Ben: That's it. That's my little glimpse into America. My only understanding of America is through the lens of Lebowski.

7:45KT: And feel free to correct us, but I feel like this is the quintessential American rite of passage film.

8:08Ben: I would say so. I would say well, I think if you learn it, as you said, if you learn it, this is a rites of passage. If you're not learn it, I don't know. Maybe go and stick with something like James Tyler. That's the poor man's equivalent. The poor man's equivalent.

8:31Oti: What are you talking about? I was gonna reference stuff for this.

8:37Ben: Oh, well, you know, I poor man in The UK means very rich. Oh, yeah. Everywhere else.

8:45KT: So does it still hold up to this day?

8:48Ben: I think so. I I think it's timeless. I mean, like, for me, having seen it in the early naughties, at that point, I thought it was incredible. If I watch it now, I don't feel like it's dated in any way at all because the the Dude is sort of caught up in this in the in the time zone of the sixties and the seventies anyway. So he's timeless. You know, a hundred years could pass, you could watch this film, and the Dude is still the Dude.

9:15Ben: His energy and his charisma, his aura maintains regardless of the time that he's in. So I think it totally, totally holds up. But I get a feeling that one of you guys is gonna disagree with me on that.

9:27Oti: Oh, you guessed right.

9:32KT: Oti, man. Come on. I was counting on you, man. Well, this this is a perfect segue for all of the Arsenal fans that know what it means to lose, Oti. Call me mommy one more time. Would you like to dive into your first impressions? Did The Big Lebowski hit the Kenyan shores at all?

9:50Oti: So this was the first time of me watching this movie. I think it just passed me by for some reason. It never got into my circles at all. And I don't know what, bloody twenty odd years, and I'm still here and just nothing.

10:09KT: But can I just say that is a testament because Oti watches films that he, in many senses, has no business watching? But somehow you didn't watch this film?

10:09Oti: Yeah. For some reason, I didn't watch this film.

10:09KT: And how did it feel?

10:26Oti: I could really see why people love this. Okay. But I did not like it that much. I think it's just too overhyped. And the fact that when I went digging Oh, into wow. No, no, no. Listen to me. Like, the fact that when you Google this movie, people are telling you, even the writers are telling you, wait, you need to watch this more than once to love it. If you're not gonna get me at the first try,

10:55Oti: mate, there's no way I'm coming back so that I could love this or to try and explain some angle. And for them to even say that it's not about the plot, it's about the characters, Peace right off.

11:06KT: Shut up, Oti Buscemi. Ben, you joined us at the most opportune time. There is actually a position vacant For Your Reference. It's called foil. Listen.

11:21Ben: Oti. Right? I I get that. I do know that's this is the thing. I totally get why you might feel that way because I feel like with Lebowski, there's two two ways of thinking. You either love it or you just think, what the hell was that? What what am I meant to take from that? There's no overarching life lesson. There's no great view on the world from it.

11:43KT: Well, hey. Hey. I don't the I don't like the direction this podcast is going, please.

11:53Ben: Got oh, okay. Before before before I talk a little more on that, KT, let's see what let's see what you think, and then we have the full the full round for context purposes.

12:03KT: Oh, thank you. When when Oti produces me, I'm not a fan. When But other people produce me, I am most welcome.

12:03Ben: Yeah. Sorry. I I am overstepping my line here.

12:03KT: In the most British of ways. Come and invade my people. It's fine. Oh, wow.

12:21Oti: You wanted some real shit. You're most welcome. This is For Your Reference.

12:25KT: You know what? Like, the big like like, both of you have echoed. Like, The Big Lebowski has been such a not a pop culture, but, like, a cultural icon for quite a while now. Like, there are lots of, you know, sort of references, memes,

12:41KT: and even, like, GIFs. A GIF that I've been using for quite a while now that I didn't realize was from The Big Lebowski. And even watching this film, there were a lot of influences that I felt were drawn from the Coen brothers without even knowing. I didn't even realize that Raising Arizona was from the Coen brothers. Come and fight me. We should be cinephiles.

13:02KT: We should be learned. But I didn't know that. Like, I was like, oh, this is quite nice. I might actually reference that without actually realizing it's the same flavoring. Like, it was kind of like a blend of, like, Raising Arizona and, you know, Anchorman. Like, that's how I kind of felt watching this film. And that is credit to the Coen brothers because there is so much that you feel like you know, you don't know where references come from, but you watch the byproducts or the bastardized children

13:30KT: of that, and then you start to give credit where credit is due. And that's how I felt watching this film. And I felt exactly the way as you guys. I started watching this, and I'm just like, ugh. Like, you know, this is such a America. It's all about, I thought this was 'Murica. You should like this because we produced this. And it it wasn't until and we'll get into the film, but it wasn't until the driving narrative was introduced to this film about the whole heist

13:58KT: of the wife. Right? Mhmm. When that happened, I'm like, let's get into this. I'm ready. I've got my wine. I've got my snacks. I've got Oti, if that's a plus or a minus. Let's go.

14:11Ben: It's always a plus.

14:12KT: Yeah. Apparently. But, yeah, just like first impressions, amazing. Actually, no. It wasn't amazing, but it it built up to that, can I just say? And the only regret that I have is that I didn't watch this multiple times before we recorded this episode because I feel like this is the film where every now and then, I'm just going to wanna chuckle with a cohesive narrative, which is very rare in these days.

14:43KT: Mhmm. To have a chuckle with a cohesive narrative and just have a good old time. And this is the film to do it. Every now and then, when you're feeling your sad, joker ish times and you just wanna watch something good with some substance, this is what this is where you go, essentially.

15:00Ben: You got it. You I've it's very, very interesting that you should mention the Joker at this point because in a world where people can feel, like, isolated and depressed, there's a lot of people with, a lot of issues nowadays who go to film as their, like, last bastion of hope. Mhmm. I'm never one of these people that feels like films like

15:26Ben: Joker and Taxi Driver influence people to do terrible things in the real world. But I think it could definitely have an influence on your mental state where your head is at, right? And if you are feeling low, if you are feeling low, and you are feeling highly susceptible, right, and you put on the Joker, you are going to feel a whole different way to if you throw on The Big Lebowski. And every damn day of the week, I would tell any individual when they are feeling low to throw on Lebowski.

15:55Ben: Because if you are in a shitty mood or a down mood or you just feel in some kind of way because something has happened to you in your personal life, if you throw on Lebowski, you are beaming by the end. You are beaming. Mentally, your soul is immersed in love, in fun, in energy, in good times. And and just the the the willingness to abide like the Dude does. Look at just everything that the Dude goes through Mhmm. In that film. He's pushed from pillar to post through through no no no,

16:26Ben: cause of his own actions, not because of nothing that he did. He's just being pushed around into shitty situation after shitty situation. And he just emerges with a smile on his face, beer in his hand, bowling ball in the other hand. Yeah. A pacifist that blows with the flow.

16:42KT: Yeah. And before before Oti continues, because we are most welcome, and I will let you share your opinion after me, of course, because you're the Donny you're the Donny of this episode. Let's let's let's meet

16:42Oti: Oh, that's

16:56Oti: so harsh. That is so harsh.

16:56Ben: Shut the fuck up, Oti.

17:01KT: I feel like I'm the John Goodman, and he is the Steve Buscemi. Yeah. That is definitely the dynamic we've got going on here. You can be a Lebowski, Ben. That's how much we prestige Hey.

17:14Ben: El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

17:17KT: Exactly. And that's a reference. You're most welcome, guys. That's that's why you were here, and we satiated all the same. But before I allow that is the word, the underlying word. Before I allow Oti to continue, I just wanted to continue off what you were saying, Ben, because this is exactly multiple times while we were watching the film, and I say film because I fucking love this. If I say movie, you know I think it's trash. But when I say film, it is in high prestige.

17:46KT: When I was watching Interesting. Yeah. Right? We don't have a couch to get into this, but we will one of these days. Oh. Right? You're most of Yeah. That's super intriguing now. But what I was saying multiple times while we're watching this film was they cover mental health in varying men in different ways

18:09KT: in quite a poignant way. And it's like it's not in a wankery way where it's like, oh, I'm going to address the fact that something's wrong with you. So many times with John Goodman's character, with Jeff Bridges' character, and also with Steve Buscemi well, actually, no one cared about Steve Buscemi. Sorry. No one cared about his character. But a lot of the time, like, you know, Lebowski would be asking Walter, like, are you okay? Like, what's wrong? What's going on? They would actually address that in ways that aren't in a

18:40KT: snooty, give me time to pull my nonexistent glasses up, cinephile sort of way. It was a way that, you know, in most cases, would be able to reach and relate to the common man, if you will.

18:54Oti: I'm as common as they come.

18:58KT: Oh, wow. Can I can we have that for an hour on loop?

19:02Ben: New ringtone.

19:06Oti: And this did not relate to me. Well, I get the fact that you can you can say Donny is crap and all, but he's the tool that used to show Walter's humanity and his struggles. You know? When he died, we could see actually Walter having some Well, kind of if you've not watched it for the what? How many years it's been? You can go somewhere else.

19:27KT: Oti. Oti, I love you, but we just admitted five minutes ago that we haven't watched the film. So I'm sure there are other people out there that haven't watched it.

19:38Oti: Well, you click on For Your Reference podcast, and you know you're gonna get spoilers either way. Alright. So Donny Donny isn't still being used at at least at the end because he seemed completely useless up until when he died.

19:38KT: No. He actually referenced I Am the Walrus with which, Ben, you can correct me if I'm wrong, was a Beatles song?

19:38Ben: He did. It's multiple times.

19:38KT: There you

19:38Oti: Yeah. Who cares about a bloody reference?

19:38KT: Again, Ben, this position is open to you.

20:10Ben: I'm coming over there. I'm booking my flight.

20:10Oti: Well, I'm the way. I was I was not sold on Walter's character up until Donny passed away, and I could see how he connected with that. And I'll tell you back to them. That was, like, fifteen minutes before the end of the film.

20:10KT: It took you that long to grab onto this?

20:10Oti: Yes. It did.

20:10KT: Oh, this is a problem. Wow. You think you think you know a person, Ben. You have become the proxy therapist between us two. You know that.

20:38Ben: Listen. I I am more than happy to be the therapist relationship here, especially if we're going to channel everything through Lebowski as as your your way of dealing with the world now. You know what you're saying, right? Yep. You know, you're saying you didn't connect with, with Walter. So John Goodman, until until that iconic moment at the end. Yeah? Yep. Do you feel like I mean, I gotta admit, I never connected with Walter throughout the whole film. Like, I appreciated

21:06Ben: his character, but I never felt for him even at the end, when he sort of reaches out to Lebowski. I never felt for him because I feel like every single

21:16Ben: bit of compassion and empathy and sympathy that I've I've got went to the Dude. Just went to the Dude because I just feel like he's the one that is gonna absorb every feeling that I've got. Because in much in the same way that everything that happens in the film, he has to he has to react to and take on. He's gotta take on all all my empathy because he's the one that I'm identifying with all the way through. Every everything that comes out of Walter's mouth is either offensive or ridiculous.

21:44Ben: It's all rooted in that shit from Vietnam.

21:47KT: Mhmm. And

21:48Ben: everything that that Donny comes out with is is just empty, vacuous. He can't really keep up. He's he doesn't really care. He's just there to to make up the numbers. So anything that involves Walter,

22:00Ben: that I I'm not I'm not with him, man. I am I am not with him. I'm laughing at him because he's ridiculous, but I'm with the Dude every step of the way thinking, you need to get out of this toxic relationship with this guy.

22:15Oti: And I get that. I was I was the same up until when Donny had his heart attack. And then Walter went down to him and was like, oh, wait, just the chopper's coming in. And they're like, what chopper? What are you talking about? And you could see that he's still in that mindset of 'Nam where it really did affect him. This happens all, you know, like we have vets struggling and whatever, but you could see clearly that it really No.

22:36Oti: What? Oh, whatever? No, no, no. All the 'Nam shit he was talking about, how dude just dismissed it, it actually came into fruition when, I think, when Donny had his heart attack and he could see how deeply it was rooted in him. Like, could see

22:54KT: I could see official expression right now. Like in an iconic Queen ballad. Rock ballad. If you're nasty, we are going to do what the musicians call a key change because how dare you? Oti from the For Your Reference household and Ben from the Filmbusters household, which I felt was of most integrity, but I feel like that has changed today. We are going to leave my John Goodman alone. We're going to leave him alone, and we're going to focus on the fucking protagonist because we are learned film cinephiles. Respect yourself. Push

23:28Ben: those glasses up.

23:31KT: But let's let's Lebowski. Mhmm. Right? I genuinely just wanna give accolades where accolades are due. Not that the Coen brothers are waiting around for KT to give accolades, but cohesive narrative. For these sorts of films, you actually

23:49Oti: oh, wow. It's not that cohesive. It's just a pretty much a basic narrative altogether. Like, the storyline is quite basic.

23:55KT: You're going to need some adhesive for those You are you you are going to take I'm going to buy you an arena, and you can take all the seats. Because what I am saying is, in regards to this film, it is you know what? And going back to my first impressions of this film, I just felt like it was very

24:15KT: 'Murican, and it was very bro. Like, it was for all the bros and all of the bros that love all of these sorts of films. And that's what I felt like this film was. And if that's

24:15Ben: Did you feel that before you watched it or, like, when you started watching

24:15KT: like, five, ten minutes. But you know what? If that's what it was, then that's fine. Like, I would have been fine with that. In these sorts of films, just like a horror, right, you're not expecting quality writing.

24:41KT: And I wasn't expecting that from that from this film. So the fact that it did have a plot, an overarching exposition where you have the protagonist going through complications, yes, ergo, through John Goodman, Walter's character, I concede this much, at least. Then you you have an overarching full character development in this film. So I just wanna give accolade where accolades are due. And I will

24:41Ben: Absolutely.

24:41KT: And I will make you fight, gladiator style, with Joaquin Phoenix. And that's what we call a callback, my friends, because we've

24:41Ben: That done is a beautiful callback.

25:19KT: Thank you, Ben. All the learned people, let's all take some time to blow our her. Am I, like, Pennywise? Like, do do I not exist if you're not scared of me? Yep. It's been ten years, motherfucker. We do not believe in you. It's been ten years, motherfucker. I'm still here. But let's let's go back to our protagonist of this film. We have Yes. Jeff Bridges playing the Big Lebowski. I felt like the sunglasses was kind of his Rambo thing. Like, whenever things got, like, stressful or he wasn't in control of the situation,

25:55KT: he kinda just put his sunglasses on.

25:57Ben: Just pop those on. Get a White Russian in hand to make sure you've got your dressing gown on, and it that's your comfort. Are you ready to kick ass?

26:05KT: Do you think the milk with the Kahlua is called a White Hawaiian?

26:09Oti: So why do you why do you say that? Why do you say White Hawaiian? Is a White Russian with Kahlua in it? Yeah. White yeah. Yeah. White Russian with Kahlua White Russian, Kahlua cream,

26:21Ben: some other god awful shit that nobody should drink. Can I tell you a story about White Russian? Go on. Because I love this film so much, went on holiday to Spain. I was on a beach and a little beach hut was making these cocktails there. So I thought, hey, I'm gonna go over here and be Lebowski. So I went up to the bar. I ordered two or three of these White Russians over the course of an hour. And of course, the White Russian with the cream in our very, very hot beach, sun

26:49Ben: curdling away at my three cocktails over the course of an hour, I was sick as a fucking dog. I have never had a a a White Russian again or a Caucasian as they call it sometimes as well. That's the only flavor Russians come in anyway. Absolutely. Yeah. You asked for a Black Russian, they're like, we do not serve those.

27:14KT: And and this is why Oti exists because I will not claim deity to that comment. Never in this one. Well, the reason why is because I watch Archer, and they use some sort of green liquid for White Russians. So I just assume that it doesn't have Kahlua in it. Oh, no. No. What

27:27Ben: a green liquid. Well, they put in an absinthe into their White Russians. Oh, you know what?

27:32KT: Absinthe is a killer, and we're not we're not getting into that today. And all of our mixologists are quaking because we are going to start a mixologist class with all of our limited knowledge with all of our limited knowledge in regards to the alcohol, as long as it feels good. And people are of consent because that's very important, and we're not going to get into any more than that today. But like you mentioned, a lot of a lot of the emotional balance that you had was spent on Lebowski.

28:05KT: And I can see I can see how that's the case. I didn't necessarily feel that way, though. Felt like and it's kind of like because Lebowski kind of felt like once you see him as an entity because that was a whole outfit. And according to IMDb trivia, that was actually Jeff Bridges' clothes, clothes that he even

28:25Ben: two to Jeff three. Bridges' clothes. Yes. Every single item of clothing that he wore throughout this film was his own wardrobe. Yeah.

28:33KT: And can I just say, as a woman in 2019, it is very liberating to see clothes that are stretchy and aren't, like, tight on your waist?

28:41Ben: So if you ever see me for me. Lounge clothes. I'm all about the lounge clothes.

28:47KT: Yeah. The the athleisure of it all. But he just looks so comfortable. I'm like, why have I been trying so hard to fit into this world? The world needs to fit into me, literally.

28:58Ben: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Do you think, right, that because he was wearing his own clothes in this film, it probably made it so much easier for him to just embody the role, be totally at ease and comfortable with the script and his character because he was like, essentially, it would have been like him rehearsing at home, wearing his own moccasins, his own dressing gown, not having to do his hair. It's like, this is just me, like, walking around at home, reading the script so I can just play it nice and cool and easy.

29:26KT: And that's a good I definitely agree with that because his performance was effortless, like, completely effortless. And that goes back to my point that I was definitely making very succinctly that Lebowski's character he just seemed like, what's thank you. Thank you, Oti. I heard that as well from you on your side. That when you when you you know, sometimes when you're walking and you look at a person and you can just tell they've been through some shit.

29:58KT: They've been through some shit in life. Lebowski looked like that. So I didn't necessarily spend any of my emotional balance on Lebowski because, yes, it looks like he's been through shit, but it also looks like healthy or not, he has ways to get through that shit. So I didn't necessarily a lot of my emotional balance was spent on John Goodman. Free motherfucker and every bitch that wants to come at me for John Goodman. But let's focus on let's focus on Lebowski for a second. So, Oti?

30:30Oti: To me, it didn't seem like he's been through shit.

30:30KT: Oti, that's it. I can hear the sirens.

30:34Ben: I'm sorry. They just keep coming for you, Oti. Every time you open your mouth with this this film, they are coming for you.

30:42KT: He has an opinion? No. No shit. We need to wrap this shit up.

30:46Oti: Like like, his his whole demeanor is just go with the flow. Whatever happens, just go with it. And it makes sense. The world is a big complex place, and all the politics they try and put it into this within what is it? Nihilist. Nihilist?

31:04Ben: Whatever the Oh, the nihilist. Yeah. Yeah. Nihilist. Yeah. We said it. It's just with an Australian and Kenyan accent. Thank you very much. That's that's true. I think I should probably be speaking it with the same accent you did, but I'm so brainwashed by America.

31:16Oti: Yeah. He's a character that I didn't really resonate with. His whole demeanor was just too laid back for me. And like you said, Ben, at the start of this, if someone's having a rough time, you recommend Big Lebowski and they'll go and have fun and enjoy. And it'll probably make them feel as if whatever problems they're facing, they can just go with it. Like, it is what it is. But Yeah. I don't know. That's not intrinsically who I am as a person.

31:46KT: Okay. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Hang on. Scratch. Yes. Who who who excuse me. Who do you relate to? Who do you resonate can I just I just say that is For Your Reference wrapped up into a tasty morsel because I I assigned that to him, and he's now owning it? Some might some might assign it to Stockholm. Some might assign it to love. Where do you lie? Tweet us. You're almost welcome.

32:12Ben: Listen. When you beat a man down often enough, he just accepts his fate.

32:16KT: Yeah. But Arsene Wenger did that enough. I didn't need to do that.

32:22Ben: I feel for him. He really is the Donny of this group, man.

32:27KT: That was a a football reference. Or if you're in America, I'm not sure if anyone else calls it a soccer reference, guys. You're most welcome.

32:37Ben: Come on. They should call it football. I see just on that. Right? I I can get that as well. But there's one line in particular that the Dude says, which for me works in almost any situation that is troublesome. It's the scene where he's in the back of the back of the limo Yep. And that limo driver is just telling him that anecdote,

32:58Ben: and he and he's sort of laughing it off. And then he he starts talking about, man, I've got my problems. I've got my problems. And then the the limo driver is like, hey. Look. Don't worry about it. Just forget about it. Forget about it. Which is a throwaway piece of advice that people give people when they're not going through shit. If someone's struggling with something, someone on the outside says, oh, look. Just don't worry about it. Don't it's it's fine. It it will handle itself. Take care. But Lebowski says, fuck

33:23Ben: this man. I can't be worrying about this shit. And he says that line, fuck this man. I can't be worrying about that shit, while he's sitting in the back of a limo with his leg up. He's in his boxer shorts, his dressing gown's open. He's got a Kahlua in hand. And I thought, now isn't that just the tea? Isn't that the way to approach any situation in life which is fucking beating you down and brow beating you? Isn't it to have like, just approach it with open arms and say, yeah, and what?

33:52Ben: And what? I'm gonna do me. I'm gonna carry on with my life doing me regardless of what you throw at me. It doesn't apply to all situations, I am sure. But it's it's a good attitude, I think, to have to to to most of the stuff that just brow beats us. Either that or you're painting your face up like a clown and do some business on live TV.

33:52Oti: Yeah. I I could see the sense in that.

34:16KT: Oh, lovely. For some is is that is that all it took to vanquish Oti? A polite Briton coming onto our podcast.

34:25KT: Really? Are all your opinions void now?

34:25Oti: Not like that void, but I do understand the aspect of that. Like, you know, the world is shitty as it is. And if, you know, just take it as as they come. Whatever problem you have, you know, I can be on board with that. Okay.

34:51Ben: Yeah. I mean and and I like it it's not a way to approach everything, but I think it kinda makes a mockery of stressful situations. Don't you think? Like, it the the story progresses, things get more and more ridiculous, more and more absurd. And his whole thing is like, oh, fuck it. This is ridiculous, man. I can't believe we're going through this, but, oh, fuck it. Let's go bowling.

35:05KT: Yeah. And that's what I didn't understand because they had literally deceived whoever they were deceiving with John Goodman's dirty underwear, and they decided to go to the bowling alley. Wouldn't you flee town at that point? And also

35:05Ben: They've gotta do them. They're doing them. They've gotta do what they gotta do. There's a tournament coming up. You know?

35:05KT: But also to take it further, yes, they did go to the Bow Bowling Alley, but they also left the the suitcase or the briefcase in the trunk. So they didn't even take it with him. Did.

35:32Ben: Yes. But he took the car phone with him at least. Yeah. I think he had that.

35:37Oti: Makes sense, doesn't it? So we're done. You said it's a good coffee phone. You're in a car with a million dollars in the suitcase, and you take the phone and leave that in the trunk. Makes perfect sense. Yeah. Just to move the plot along. You know? Yeah. I can understand that logic.

35:52KT: May I also may I also appeal with many minutes earlier where Oti mentioned that he is common and he is simple? Aw. Who's I won't I won't believe it for a second. I'm just saying. Whose side do you wanna be on, my friends? Do you believe

36:11Oti: Walter Walter could walk away from a car without the bloody suitcase in there? The same person who tried to keep the money all to himself.

36:19KT: Oti, I am feeling

36:21Oti: late came up with the most basic of plans to try and keep that money anyway.

36:26KT: I am feeling late nineties, early two thousands, WWE, Raw, SmackDown right now. Are you challenging me in the ring? Do you wanna talk about Walter John Goodman? Because I will bring it, motherfucker.

36:38Oti: No. Just tell me. What's so good about him? I'll see you in the ring, brother. Because he comes off as unlikable from the start till the end, up until the end where Donny dies, at least for me.

36:49Ben: I and and you know, KT, that, unfortunately, I agree with him. Although I enjoy his I I find him good comedic value, I don't, for a second, find unlikable.

36:58KT: Well, hold on to your Johnsons for this tasty morsel, my friends and lovers, because we are going to get deep with John Goodman. You wanted to get deep with Steve Buscemi? Well, you're in the wrong movie because no one cared about John Goodman has seen some shit, and he's been through shit. Every time he tried to interject what happened in 'Nam, for for the sense of levity or for whatever reason, it was cut, And we never really got to address it. But you can see that he was fighting demons that were much more powerful

37:34KT: and much more intrinsic to his sense of self that he could battle by himself. He was celebrating Jewish sort of customs that aren't even attached to him anymore because he's not with that wife, the wife that is going and holidaying with another man.

37:34Ben: Man, you're, yeah, you're you're right on that. Yeah.

37:34KT: I want a thousand words of how sorry you guys are.

37:58Ben: You know, you are right. I just as you were talking, like, you just discarded sixteen years of me being dismissive about the situation because as she was saying that, I was thinking about exactly that, his wife and the fact that he's still looking after her fucking Pomeranian, bringing it to the bowling alley because he can't can't check it into the dog company. It's like this guy who who was in Vietnam and it still identifies himself based on his experiences in Vietnam

38:27Ben: is so under the thumb of his ex wife and and her new partner that is bringing the Pomeranian to the bowling alley. You're right. You're totally right. I never even really added it up. He's celebrating these Jewish holidays because of his ex wife. That does make him a bit more of a tragic a tragic character than I than I gave him credit for before.

38:27KT: You are the you are most welcome. I am the Oti

38:49Oti: Tragically unlikable. You've not changed my mind one bit.

38:52KT: Oti? Oti, this was a sound bite, motherfucker. This was a sound bite. And you're the editor, so I can't control what gets out into the episode. But what I was going to interject after Ben's very thoughtful response was, yeah, motherfucker. I am the Oprah of the podcasting community.

39:09Oti: Oh, no. Don't do yourself a disservice. You're much better than her.

39:13KT: Don't do yourself a disservice. She is the fucking queen.

39:17Ben: Well, we're we're we're that's for another podcast.

39:20KT: It is for another podcast.

39:23Ben: Like I understand. But you no. You're right. You're you're totally right on that. Yeah. So nothing more needs to be said. Right, Oti?

39:31KT: I understand. Oh, Jesus.

39:33Oti: Just like, he's he's been through some shit, and I get that. I really do get that. But I feel like the way they wrote him, I feel like you wouldn't necessarily relate to him in any kind of way unless you you you are familiar with combat and what that does. Like, it just it makes it really hard for any normal person to sort of relate to what the kind of thing he's going through. Okay. And that's perfectly understandable.

40:03Oti: And I'm not I can't I can't put myself in his shoes because I've not been through that. I've not been to war and whatever that fucked up does to you.

40:03KT: Okay. And that's and that's fine. You've aired your stanky qualms, and those are yours alone.

40:03Oti: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Belong to Ben or And as Donny, I'm just looking at this and thinking that this guy's a And and it's really hard to relate to him.

40:20KT: Because he kept telling you to shut up. That's why you don't like him. But let's let's no. Let's continue on this frame of reference. If you'll pardon the reference, you're most welcome, everyone listening, because we're aware there's an audience, and it's not just us three fighting.

40:37Ben: Oh, isn't it? I thought we were just having a nice conversation here. You're not actually putting this out to people for public consumption, are you? Jesus. We're be chops on everything we say.

40:46KT: I am trying to retire. Unless our dog's Instagram is going to get some sponsors, I'm trying to retire, Ben.

40:46Ben: Oh, well, good luck with this.

40:46KT: So let's go back to Oti. So you mentioned that you couldn't relate to him in any way. John Wick is a film that we love. Hold on, kids. This is related because Peter Stall Peter Stormare. Yeah. Peter Stormare was in John Wick, and he kept talking about the pencil. And you'll need to watch the film if you need to understand what we're talking about. But do you have any assassination

41:17KT: sort of experience in killing, three, four people with a pencil? No. You do not. What's the point? Do you need to have exact life experience to be able to

41:31Oti: I can empathize, but that's all I can do. I can understand he's going through shit, and I can feel sorry for him. I can try and put myself in his situation and see how that devastating would be, but that doesn't even come close to exactly what he's experiencing. And I feel like the writers did a disservice to him in how they portrayed him as a character in this because he came up as just really beaten, angry up until the end where we saw that there's actually some semblance of actual emotion.

42:00KT: Put yourself in that category because I saw the pain of John Goodman from the start. And let's just let's just make it clear. In my learned experience from IMDb trivia, this was actually John Goodman's favorite performance ever.

42:14Oti: Because it's been in big ones. Wow. I didn't mean that.

42:22KT: Let us let us all take a moment to remember his short appearance on Community where he was in a pillow fort, and he said to turn away because he was embarrassed of his body.

42:22Ben: See? I haven't even seen that episode of Community, and that's hilarious.

42:22KT: And doesn't that make you wanna watch Community? It's For Your Reference, guys. This is what we do here. While we are talking about Walter's character, I just wanna mention when they have films airing on TV, they need to make, like, a cleaner

42:50KT: sort of

42:50Ben: Oh, I know where you go with this.

42:50KT: Yeah. So when he says hilarious shit. When he says, this is what happened when you fuck a stranger in the ass, what they replaced it with is, this is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps.

43:10Ben: It makes no sense. Apart from being a hilarious mistranslation for Telly, what what why would you find a stranger in the Alps? And why would that happen when you found him? Why if you find a stranger in the Alps, would you then smash up a car? That it doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense, but it's the Kidz Bop.

43:30KT: Falsky,

43:31Ben: if you will. Yeah. The kids can understand all the rest of nihilism, the Johnson talk, but no. No. We can't we can't talk about fucking in the ass. Can talk about finding a stranger in the Alps.

43:42KT: Or you can do both, and you're most welcome. Idris Elba and Kate Winslet, which is a film that no one watched. And that's that that that's what they did in the Alps, I take it. I would hope so. What else would you do with Idris Elba and the Alps? The house, you're gonna keep warm. Yeah. Well, you're making It makes sense. You're not gonna make him James Bond because no one wants him to be James Bond. Uh-oh.

44:02Ben: Is we I don't know. Maybe five years ago. Now he's already too old. Yeah. Might as well give it to

44:08Oti: no. I was gonna say something really insensitive, so I'll just skip that.

44:11KT: As opposed to as opposed to all the offensive things you've been saying already?

44:16Oti: I have a filter, mate.

44:20KT: You do? Let let it be known. The filter For Your Reference is is not as succinct as other podcasts. You're most welcome.

44:29Ben: The the vulnerability of Walter. Because now I I this is what I'm finding so fucking interesting about talking about this with you guys because even though I feel like I know this film inside out, just like in thirty minutes, you're already making me think about things that I didn't really think about before, which are probably obvious to other people who are not idiots like me. But Walter,

44:49Ben: his vulnerability is on display from the off. Because even that moment when he pulls his his gun out in the lanes and is pointing it at Smokey, it's like Mark it zero. Mark it zero. Mhmm. That's vulnerable. That's vulnerable. That's how fragile the guy is. That because Smokey overstepped the line by a little little hair's length, He freaks out in the bowling alley pulls the gun out. Yeah. And you guess you could say something about, you know,

45:14Ben: ex vets and, like, how how they're just not looked after after they go through this traumatic situation, but I never really focused on that before. This is why this is why I love talking about film, man. Because you can sit with film for a long time in your own head, but until you talk about it, you don't really think about these things. You don't allow them to come to the to the forefront.

45:34KT: And, you know, that's exactly it. You can have people explicitly saying, you're a garbage person. You need to change. But what's more effective is through the medium of entertainment, whether it's film, whether it's TV show, whether it's music. Because it's on this unconscious sort of level where you start to challenge your ideals and be like, oh, maybe I am a dick to my mom. Maybe I should check-in with her more. You know what I mean? There are different ways that you can change as a person. And I really believe, oh, that's dangerous. I really invest in the whole entertainment business,

46:10KT: you know, as an entity because you can change how you feel or what you think through that in ways that you didn't even know how to challenge Faison.

46:10Ben: Absolutely, man.

46:10KT: And that's exactly it with John Goodman's character because, you know, hello. Sometimes we get super amazing and we talk about dicks, which we didn't get to see in this film. But there are times where we do dig beneath the surface and we do get a bit deep. And let's talk about Walter's character for ever more seconds.

46:39KT: Right? Yeah. Because he you know, so much of the time, it's like, if you're not feeling okay, if you need help in life, or, you know, if if you're not feeling good, just tell people. And that's what he did, but no one really hearkened onto his call, did they?

46:39Ben: It's very interesting. Yeah. You're right.

46:39KT: And that's exactly where we need to be. And, Oti, I would love to know where you were going with this. Good luck.

47:07Oti: I understand him as as a character at the end of the day, looking at it objectively. But during the Where were you looking? As as No. During my experience watching the film, it was completely different. Mhmm. And I I understand all the points you've just said right now. I I do get it. I understand it, and I I completely agree. But that doesn't change how he came across. Yes. You can see that he he pulled his gun out, and there's some weird shit going through his mind at the moment. But still, it wasn't as clearly put out as I thought it could have been because he just seemed like a psychopath.

47:46KT: Okay. I'm going to bring up the Joker again because we have lots of learned podcast friends, and I listened to at least 15 episodes of the Joker. And it was such a funny sort of pendulum that you had because exactly like what Oti is saying, there were some people that were saying, oh, you know, the fact that they revealed whatever they revealed in the Joker was so on the nose, and they didn't need to do that. That's like pandering to our low and, lowest common denominator. Right? And then you have other people

48:20KT: on the extreme of that pendulum saying, I didn't understand this. I wish they had made it clearer. Unfortunately, Oti, you are in that side of the pendulum because apparently, you wanna be spoon fed for a narrative, even this sort of film.

48:20Oti: Not spoon fed for a narrative.

48:37Oti: Just do it better. Like, there should be a clear line between psychopathic tendencies and emotional trauma or whatever the fuck you wanna call it. But if people are going through shit and they don't know how to handle it, not all of us go to, like, qualified people that say you have x, y, and zed wrong with you.

48:57Ben: This is this is fascinating, man, because we're talking about the character of Walter instead of the Dude, like and it feels totally right to be talking about him because I feel like if this was any other podcast, the focus would be we talk a little about Walter, but would focus on the Dude because the Dude is the Dude. Mhmm. And he's got good ethos,

49:15Ben: I've heard. But this Walter is actually the real interesting fucking character in this piece. Mhmm. I didn't realize you could do such a character study on this guy. He's try he's trying to reach out to people. He is. You're you're totally right. And he is being dismissed in the same way that he is dismissing Donny.

49:15KT: Thank you for calling this a character study. I'm not sure it would be internationally recognized. Sorry. Leave that in some academic papers, I'm sure.

49:41KT: But, of course, I go under For Your Reference. Yeah. I go under a pseudonym. But it's it's it's an interesting thing because, you know, even Oti made a remark while we were watching the film saying, you know, thank god, like, John Goodman or John Godman, as I like to call him, come and fight me, Oti, that he only he only comes in moderation because you couldn't deal with his character.

50:06Oti: Hell no. He's too overbearing, man.

50:06KT: Maybe he is that give a dollar a day to a kid commercial that you just wanna change the channel, but he just he just makes you watch it.

50:19Ben: Yeah. It's true. Can I segue to something that sort of involves Walter? Yeah. Go did you two think about the introduction of the iconic Jesus character. Because because you know what they're doing with this character. Right? They are gonna do they're doing a film. They've made it. What? About him. Yeah. It's coming out in the next couple of months. Wait. What? Following yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just called Jesus, and it's him. Same same actor. I can't even remember the guy's name now. He's from The Night Of.

50:56KT: Yeah. He's from The Night Of. We've seen him recently. Oti. Oti.

51:05Oti: He gets John Turturro or something like that. Yeah. Something like that.

51:10KT: Oti, you need to pretend like we're learned just like our friends, Ben, Paul, and Adam, like we knew this was happening. Yes. Continue, Ben. We definitely know what this is going on.

51:22Ben: John Turturro, that's the man. Jesus, they're gonna make an entire film about him. Is he king just like Kanye West? I I guess he is.

51:35Oti: You thought we didn't know about music, motherfucker? What kind of foil music reference?

51:42Ben: They they're not calling it Yeezy. It's not Jeezy. It's just Jesus.

51:46Oti: The the the the pedophile that they just casually introduce into the film as a as a comic reference point. Eight year olds. Never forget. Eight year olds, dude. Yeah. Just correct me if I'm wrong. I took this as just some sort of as a comic relief device in the movie.

51:46Ben: Yeah. Totally. Totally. Totally.

51:46Oti: So I don't understand how he gets to his own, spin off or whatever you wanna call it.

52:06Ben: I don't think it's gonna hold up well because, a, it's not directed by the Coens anyway. Oh. But, b, as you say, it's like a it's a comedic side character that worked in the context of this film. If you wanna focus on it entirely, it means we're gonna be watching a film about a pedophile who likes to go bowling.

52:26Oti: You've audiences on board with this. Not too. That. Go and pitch that to any TV.

52:32KT: Ridiculous. Not to not to draw any parallels here because no parallels exist in that particular subject matter. But I love how Oti is very tentative about how he feels about the Jesus character, but he is all guns blazing on things that he should be tentative about.

52:49Oti: What am I tentative about Jesus? I'm not. I'm not talking about Jesus. I'm talking about Walter. The Jesus of this movie. I'm not tentative about Jesus nor Walter. I'm pretty clear on how I perceive them. Jesus is just a purely comedic with us in this, just to alleviate some sort of whatever Walter throws at us in his ridiculousness. Yeah. Mhmm. But then Walter, on the other hand, is just

53:14KT: We're running out of hands.

53:19Oti: No. You tell me. You tell me. You tell me your thoughts on this then. On John Goodman or on Jesus? On Jesus.

53:25KT: Hi. Hello. Ciao. Welcome. Aloha to all of our listeners. I'm not sure how many of you guys are from South America or even Portugal. I feel like there aren't many cultures that call themselves Jesus.

53:25Ben: Not too many, I would say.

53:25KT: Oti? Nah. You are the spokesperson of Africa. Does anyone that you know of, are they called Jesus?

53:25Oti: No, mate. We didn't recognize Jesus. We had our own gods, so probably not.

53:25KT: This is not American Gods by Neil Gaiman, which we will cover eventually.

53:56KT: Because we we get up all bell quests on a Friday night, but we're not talking about that today. But going back to Jesus' character, exactly what you're saying, he didn't have enough dimension to be able to carry being the protagonist

54:09KT: of a movie. So it'll be quite interesting to see what that would look like. I don't know personally in the For Your Reference household if we will watch it. Ben, will you guys be covering it?

54:28Ben: I I don't even think it's gonna get a cinema release because it doesn't even strike me as the kind of film that could get one. Like, straight it. Saw The Big Lebowski, I imagine loads of audience members being like, we're not going to the cinema to see the film about him. We only need five minutes of that guy, that that works fine. But it's got, like, an amazing cast. Like, Christopher Walken is in it. Jon Hamm is in it. Bobby Cannavale. It's it's it's it's not a b movie. They're they're really going for it. Yeah. Jon Hamm is in anything nowadays. Hang on. He He is.

54:50KT: Ben, you had me at Jon Hamm because, yes, it is less it is less than sixty days until Christmas, and who doesn't love a slicey juice of Christmas ham?

55:01Ben: That's true. And he was in a Christmas episode of White Christmas. Black Mirror. Yes. You got it. Yeah. It's all about ham Christmas.

55:11KT: All of that. The glazed ham if you're nasty.

55:15Ben: Yes.

55:16KT: Which we all are. You know what? There there are a lot there's a lot of commentary I throw at guests, and you happen to pick it up just fine, Ben.

55:21Ben: I well, I it's early in the morning, so forgive me if I don't do it for all of it.

55:32KT: Let's talk to us that we haven't even gotten to talk about. So okay. I am a child of a generation, and I I haven't really pinpointed how old I am. You're most welcome.

55:47Ben: However The mystique, the aura of of between us all. I don't think anyone knows how old anyone here. I Well, you two obviously know.

55:56KT: Do we? Do we ever? I think you're drunk when I told you my age, so I think we just did that. I don't I don't think I was old enough to be drunk, and that that is some Jesus shit right there. That

56:08KT: is some Jesus shit. And and if somehow you're at work and you kind of tuned out because you were working on your Excel spreadsheet and you just heard me talking about some Jesus shit, well, that is some qualms you need to reconcile within yourself because you should have been listening to the whole episode, motherfucker. Now let's get back. Let's get back into the episode. There is a lot that happens in this film, and, wow, there are some real juggernauts

56:34KT: in this film. The only thing that I wanted to lay out in regards to KT's foundation is I was not at an age to watch this when it came out, and that's all I wanted to mention. So, you know, we've got some real juggernauts in this film. But I just wanna, you know, preface that perhaps I've watched more of their most recent works, for example. So I don't have that tasting. I don't have that peppering, but I'm sure Oti and Ben can cover those bases. Ben, as our most esteemed and honored guest,

57:06KT: who would you like to go into next?

57:09Ben: What about Philip Seymour Hoffman's character? Let's do it. Mhmm. Because I have never seen him play a character that was so, like, innocent and always, like, bubbly. He was so damn childlike. And it was in it kind of infectious, his his silly servitude to the the actual Lebowski, the Big Lebowski. Because the Dude rocks up in the house and he's, like, showing him all the pictures and he's having to slap his hand away. And, like, when they when they go up to Bunny,

57:38Ben: Bunny's like, I'll suck your cock for a thousand dollars. Brandt can't watch though. And he's like, oh, delightful child. We love her. We love her. He's like, I've never seen Philip Seymour Hoffman play such a joyous character. He always plays these, like, serious

57:49Ben: sobering roles for the most part. And I I like him. Don't get me wrong. But it was really refreshing to see him in this sort of role. And I feel like the Coens are able to do that with with actors that they cast. They're able to bring them down a level and just get them in touch with, I don't know, a a purest sense of themselves.

58:04KT: And I I also appreciated that his character in The Big Lebowski, in particular, didn't really have a hidden agenda. There wasn't any sort of complexity to him. He was literally there to serve The Big Lebowski.

58:16Ben: Yes. Totally. Total servitude. And and The Big Lebowski himself, of course, he was just the perfect caricature of all of those big boss types that you see in all of those movies. That it's kind of like taking the piss out of, like, The Big Heat, The Big Sleep, The Big Hit, The Big Kill. All those films in the fifties, those detective noiri type films were like the big something. And there was always some old fucking guy, normally overweight, normally in a wheelchair, always white, sitting behind a desk,

58:49Ben: that is meant to be the asshole of the piece. And he was the perfect amalgamation of all of those characters.

58:55KT: Can I just say, did anyone else when Walter was trying to call bullshit on his character, The Big Lebowski, that he could actually walk, did anyone else just find himself, like, unraveling but also half hoping that he wouldn't be able to walk?

59:12Oti: Yeah. Absolutely.

59:17Ben: This this dude can walk, man. And when he flipped him and he just dropped, I thought, yeah, that's that's the perfect ending for for Walter now. He needed he needed to have a moment like that where he could see that everything, his conviction, his blind belief in everything is not true. Well, he kind of just went too far. And I'm sure many people will argue that he already went too far, but I think at that point, he's like, oh, shit. I actually need to check myself now.

59:42Ben: Yeah. Yeah. I need to I need to take a step back from this film and let Jeff Bridges do some heavy lifting for a while. What what did you guys think of Tara Reid character? Because you mentioned Tara Reid at the beginning, which suggested that you got a lot of love for her, or did I misread that?

60:01KT: I actually don't know a lot about her, to be honest.

60:01Ben: Oh, okay. Okay. American Pie. That's all you need to know.

60:01KT: Yeah. But we only just watched American Pie the other day. I'm a brown Mormon girl. What what what business did I have watching American Pie in my formative years?

60:01Ben: You guys only just watched American Pie the other day.

60:01Oti: No. She just watched American Pie the other day.

60:01KT: Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. We are collective. We are a collective. How dare you? You're the royal we.

60:33Oti: Well, let's just Jason Biggs or Briggs or whatever his motherfucking name is. While he was experimenting on himself, I was doing the same thing, so I didn't need to watch the film. Okay?

60:43Ben: You didn't need any guidance. None of us needed any guidance, but it it helped to know other people were out there doing the same thing.

60:50KT: I love how that's the most poetic, and it was also about masturbation.

60:56Ben: Yeah. Listen. This is how we do it over here. This is how we do it. It's very on brand, my friend. It's

61:03KT: very on brand. Absolutely. I appreciated her as a character. She was there for eye candy. She reminds me and, again, I am more recent in my viewings. She reminded me of, like, a Heather Graham sort of character where she's just there to serve eye candy. Good comparison. Yeah. It's very Heather Graham role. Heather Graham could've played. Yeah. And I wanna make it very clear. That was from KT, not Oti, since he wants to throw me under the bus.

61:03Oti: No. I feel like Heather Graham does a lot of

61:29Oti: No, mate. That was mine. Get your own. No. I feel like Heather Graham does more than just Superflor Stings.

61:36KT: Name one.

61:42Ben: Can I ask you another question? Yep. Go for guys like Red Hot Chili Peppers?

61:46KT: Yes. Because Flea was in it.

61:46Ben: Okay. Good. Look at that. You saw right through my line of questioning.

61:46KT: Yeah. You can see right through my Scar Tissue, and that is a reference. You're most welcome, man. Yeah.

61:56Ben: Yeah. I mean, this was around about the time when Flea was popping up in weird roles in a lot of films. Like, as this was not too long off the Back to the Future. Well, okay. Was. It was probably about ten years after Back to the Future. But Flea decided he wanted to appear in loads loads of films in the nineties, and then he just disappeared. He stopped wanting to be in films after that.

62:15KT: But it's kind of great, and we did our Freddy vs. Jason episode.

62:20Ben: You did. And so I still have to listen to that one, and I can't wait.

62:25KT: Well, that's fine. Cannot wait. But we we talked about Kelly Rowland, and we actually talked about, you know, musicians actually popping up randomly in film. And I think Flea is actually a good tie in as well.

62:34Ben: Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Totally. What's the best musician that's ever appeared in a film? Best musician cameo, not leading role.

62:46KT: You're really just gonna spring this on us? I know. I know. We you need, like, twenty minutes prep. Who immediately jumps to mind? I'm gonna say Mary J. Blige from 30 Rock, and that's that's my first thing that comes to mind. Beat I don't get your reference there, though. However, it sounds heavenly on the ears just like the esteemed Mary J. Blige. Try and beat that, Oti.

63:07Ben: I can't think of any carousel. I'm thinking your leads. What lead you got? What lead you got that you like?

63:13Oti: Jared Leto?

63:15KT: Nah, boo. That doesn't count. He has a he has a fully fledged career. That's not fair. We're talking about the novelty of musicians.

63:15Ben: Boo.

63:15KT: Ben, don't boo Oti. That's very rude.

63:28Ben: Sorry. I just couldn't help it.

63:31KT: It was a very sexy boo, but don't boo him.

63:36Ben: I won't. Forget my stupid sideliner questioning anyway. Musicians in in films is not what we're here to talk about. I know. This was this was a sideline.

63:43Oti: Yeah. And a sideline that it's it's part of the spirit of For Your Reference. We go through a lot of things that we don't really need to cover, but yeah, that's what we do. Appreciate the tangents, I think. Said said the man that doesn't have any feelings hurt. Let's move on.

64:02KT: Julianne Moore. Oh, yeah. What a woman. I love her, and I feel like she was many decades early of annoying people. Yes. I said it. Of you know, let let's let's bring something into context. Bringing like, oh, you don't like Brie Larson? That's because you hate women. Fuck up. Like, shut up. But I love that Julianne Moore embodied that character of, oh, are you uncomfortable with the human body? Do you not like that I say vagina? I think this is the first time we said Vagina. Vagina. And as a owner

64:36KT: of a vagina, you're most welcome, if you were wondering, I'm disappointed that this is the first time we've said vagina. Yeah. And also as a side note, because we did talk about a lot of deep stuff, let's talk about some levity. I'm very disappointed. I know it is the late nineties, and it wasn't really on brand, but there were no dicks at all. And there were a lot of titties. There's lots of talk about about dicks. There's lots of talks about Johnsons.

65:02Ben: Lots of talks about Johnson's, but no no on screen Johnson's.

65:06KT: Yeah. And it's yeah. It just you know, I'm on my campaign of the titty to dick ratio, and it just didn't satisfy me. It failed. It just it just failed.

65:06Ben: I could I could dig that. It failed on the on the dick ratio. It's true.

65:06KT: But it was the first time I saw Julianne. What a world we live in, my friends.

65:26Ben: What what a way to show them off for the first time flying overhead strapped into Right. An apparatus, which all of us surely have in our homes, just for getting from the bathroom to the bedroom.

65:26KT: Ben, we're not talking about Oti and I's Friday night.

65:26Ben: Friday night. This is your Tuesday, your Wednesday, and your Thursday.

65:46KT: That's how you keep the love alive aside from part starting a podcast, guys. Yeah. Absolutely. That's what you do. And it was funny because when she was swinging, and then they had it all the way

65:57Ben: Although, is she is she British?

65:58KT: Thank you. Thank you very much. As our representative, where did that come from?

66:05Ben: No idea. She's American, I think. Yeah. That is not a that's not authentic. American. Yeah. Surely. Good. I'm glad you clarified that. The British wasn't bad, but it was over the top. It was she went to the Hugh Grant school of learning how to act British.

66:19KT: Do you feel like and, yes, you are the embodiment of all Britons. Actually, sorry. Is Britons derogatory? Because I say Briton a

66:29Ben: Nobody else has ever said that apart from you, so I guess not.

66:29KT: Oh, I I got it from Plebs. I got it from Plebs, which is a British show. Do you watch it?

66:29Ben: Oh, yeah. Because Brit yeah. Plebs. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Briton because Britons is the old term for Brits. Yeah. You you just call us whatever the hell you want. Brits is fine. I don't believe that we're in that rarefied atmosphere where you could say anything, and it we can't really be offended by it.

66:29KT: I'm trying to get canceled, Ben.

66:57KT: Alright.

66:59Ben: We can give you lots of suggestions of things to call us that will get you canceled, Ben.

67:06KT: As our fellow Briton on this episode, do you do you feel like because to our ears, it all sounds like the default British sort of accent. Do you feel like a lot like, just default to a British accent, or can you hear the differences in the accent?

67:06Ben: What? In in terms of them doing it

67:06KT: When Americans try to adopt like a British accent.

67:31Ben: Sometimes it's very subtle. Sometimes it's done really well, and I'm really surprised when I hear them talking. And the first time Peter Dinklage spoke, and I was like, oh, shit. He's Amer Tyrion is American? Because I thought, well, this guy's clearly British. He's too obvious. You know, the the inclination is to really make the r's round. So if I said to you, oh, guys, your podcast is lovely. That's how I would say it as a Brit as a Briton, by an American trying to do it. We go, oh, gosh. Your podcast is lovely. Like, why are rolling it? It's not lovely.

67:56Ben: It's not l o v e r l y. There's no r in there. It's just lovely. They go lovely. It's like it's that that whole, what's his name? Come on, guys. This is a reference you should be getting. Who's the Australian who came over here to try and do a British accent? There are many Australians that come over.

68:15KT: Mary Poppins?

68:17Ben: Oh, Dick Van Dyke. No. No. That's the joke. So Dick Van Dyke, an American Australian? Tried to do a British accent, but he did Australian. He's just an Australian in Mary Poppins.

68:27KT: Well, I feel like if you are trying to get a British accent and you get an Australian one, it kinda counts. Halfway there. Well, I'm an Australian. So as a bastardized Briton, if you'll be nasty, I feel like that counts.

68:43Ben: Yeah. That counts. Like, you you could you could you're halfway to a British accent. It's true. But most of the time in films, it it's done fairly seamlessly. But when it's not done, it's really clunky, and it's it can ruin a film sometimes. But in every other instance,

68:57KT: I would like Julianne Moore. Thank you.

68:57Oti: But does she need to be in this movie? Like

68:57KT: How dare you? Excuse me. We're we is dismissing everything. He's such a he's such a naysayer, isn't he?

68:57Ben: He is a big time naysayer on this one. Yeah.

68:57KT: I only like my contrarians in the contrarians podcast. You're most welcome, guys. Yes. Hi. Hi, Alex, and hi, Julio. We're talking to you. But what what I was going to say is when it comes to Julianne Moore, everything. She is everything in every facet.

69:34KT: In every other instance, she can do no wrong. And if we had watched this before Halloween, I would have made you have a couple costume with me of The Big Lebowski and Julianne Moore. I'm not sure if I'll be appropriating Vikings, but in that dream sequence. That would have been us.

69:53Ben: That was a good dream sequence.

69:55KT: It's it's all the dreams I'll be having for the rest of my life.

69:59Oti: Like, don't get me wrong. I like Julianne Moore as an actor and all, but it just felt like anyone could do that.

69:59KT: Trash. Shift delete shift delete on that recycle bin, and that's some techie banter for you guys.

69:59Oti: What sort of complexity did this role require that had to bring out the big guns and

70:19KT: There was overt sexuality, and there was nuance.

70:22Oti: Can do that. Halle Berry and Catwoman did that, and Catwoman is really bad.

70:29Ben: What a comparison. What a comparison. Out of nowhere. Out of nowhere.

70:36KT: Again, whose side do you wanna be on, dear listeners? The common man or Ben and I? I don't know. You choose.

70:45Oti: Are you done, sir? You've not given me a common reason as to why Julianne Moore had to be in this.

70:54KT: I literally did until your common ass came along and butchered my argument. I wanna stick a fork in you because you were done, my love.

71:01Ben: Are you done? I don't think there are any other character major characters in the piece.

71:05KT: Not not necessarily. They have some side characters, and then you have, like, tertiary characters. Tertiary? Yeah. Tertiary characters. But it could kinda all they they all blend well to to keep the sense of, like, levity and nonsense going on. Right? Oh, totally. I just wanna pinpoint one of my favorite moments of the film. So we we get, like, five not even five, like, ten to fifteen minutes into the film where I was all in disarray, and I'm like, oh, this is all hogwash, as the kids like to say.

71:39KT: And then once we got into what the driving force of the narrative was, I was strapping in and strapping on and strapping off everywhere. Yes. And I was fine. I was ready to go. But what actually built me to crescendo is where you have The Big Lebowski in a bathtub. You have Peter Stormare as a porn star in all of his gloriousness. And he brings that ferret like character Yeah. Biting onto the big Lebowskis of all. That was

72:11KT: that was a thank you for coming, if you'll pardon the pun. Yeah. This is why you were watching the film, and this is what you are continuing to be rewarded with.

72:21Ben: Yeah. This is part this is part of my love for this film is that, yeah, it's a comedy. It's a comedy, but it's not, like, just a broad fucking let's just paint by numbers. Let's just do the typical, sight gag here. Let's do the typical fart joke here. It's

72:40Ben: bizarre eccentric humor, which is the best type of humor. How many other films you're gonna see a ferret dropped in a bath and see a man beating it beating it with with a split in the in the pair of scissors, a pair of tongs, man? He's smoking the spit in the bar, but he's trying to beat the ferret out of it. You're not gonna get that anywhere else. And unfortunately for your buck are you getting there?

73:00KT: Unfortunately, that was the first and the last case of a fella beating his ferret and not having a good time.

73:08Ben: Yep. Yep. Yep. I like that. I like that. What would you say was the standout funny moment from the film? Because it is a it's trying to be a funny film. And and if there isn't one, does does that mean for you, particularly that the comedy didn't work?

73:25Oti: I wouldn't even classify this as a comedy at all.

73:30Ben: Wow. Oti, you are killing me right now. You are killing me dead. And not even softly.

73:36Oti: Yeah. I think I almost did it that, but it had some light moments. Agreed. The ferret one in particular was kind of, yeah. I could see some giggles in there.

73:46KT: We are recreating this after the recording, so I hope you're ready.

73:53Oti: No. Like, it's it's quotable. And the problem with me is because Just one? We're laughing. It's a podcast, but yes. I've not watched this at all up until a few hours ago. And I think the cult status got more solidified when the meme culture came about.

74:10Ben: Boo.

74:10KT: Ben, stop it.

74:17Oti: It's true. And and I did not see the big whoop in this. Like, it's it's it's not bust your gut out hilarious.

74:24KT: It's fucking hilarious.

74:24Oti: It has some light moments in there.

74:24KT: Fucking hilarious.

74:24Oti: But only tell me what what exactly was fucking hilarious in there.

74:24KT: I'm sorry. I thought you realized there was a hierarchy, and I can override you and veto you at any time.

74:24Oti: No. No. No. In all honesty, like

74:24KT: Okay. I'll give you two examples. Yeah. The first one, as far as my eyes can see, was the first instance of ASMR. Who the fuck listens to the championships of bowling? Big Lebowski does. Man.

74:56KT: Yeah. I found that so Who listens to bowling? Yeah. And it's like, can you really understand that pin six and pin nine fell down at that time in that order? Like, surely not. Like, what are you getting out of this? He wasn't even touching his Johnson, so there wasn't any gratification from that particular moment. So I don't understand what he was getting from that. And another moment, when they were at some sort of, like, community theater and there was some unfortunate Bobby Moynihan looking fella with, like I was. SNL reference. You're most welcome.

75:30KT: And he had, like, leaves around him, and he was doing this really contrived sort of performance. I nudged Oti, and I'm like, this is the podcasting community right here. Yeah.

75:44Ben: This is someone With, like, three or four listeners sitting in the audience like, we don't wanna be listening to this.

75:49KT: Yes. Exactly. And Oti will concede because I heard that laughter right now. There were some primo moments in this film.

75:58Oti: Like, aside from some catchy quotey in there and some few funny moments, not even lightly hilarious moments in there. Lightly. Okay. I don't know. Like, I would not even categorize this as a purely comedic sort of film because it's not that lie because Walter brings so much weight into this.

76:19Oti: And That's rude. The most interesting bit no. No. No. No. The most interesting the most interesting bit for me in this movie, it's not even about its hilarity or whatever or its lack of. It's more the dynamism between the Dude and Walter and how the fuck they are still friends because that's all I was in there for.

76:39KT: Oh, come on, Oti. You know you have some dropkick friends. Yes. I'm putting you on blast. No. No. No. You have some dropkick friends that you should let go of.

76:48Ben: I get it. True. We all do. Right? We all have that that person that's a weight on our back. We know that they would probably be there for us, but we would rather that we had never met them. But now we have, and they're with us for a long, long time.

77:10Oti: But that dynamism is what kept me watching. Like, that's what I was like, oh, okay. You know? I can see the Dude kind of letting a lot of things go, but even when they keep throwing what's his name? Donny's ashes. Yeah. And you could see where the Dude was, like, up to his limit in his frustrations and all. Yeah. But you could see that kind of moment where their vulnerability showed,

77:23Oti: something that lacked in the whole sort of movie between them.

77:23KT: Didn't I say at that point, I was like, hug each other. Hug each other.

77:23Oti: And Walter was the one that initiated the fight.

77:23KT: And they did. Yeah.

77:23Oti: But you you shout that every time you see two men standing next to each other. So I don't really take that to yes. In the street even.

77:40KT: I I do shout it, but I search much more poignant stuff. Yes. You're most welcome. Ben. Ben. Yes. When it comes to Walter's character, because apparently Oti doesn't care for him, but he keeps bringing him up.

77:57Ben: Oh, yeah. Like a wound, you can't stop licking so it doesn't heal. Amongst other things that we like to lick. Yes. You're most welcome. Yes.

78:05KT: How how do you feel that it all ended for Walter's character and also the friendship?

78:11Ben: Because we're talking about the friendship. Yeah? How do you When think the film ended, what do I think happened?

78:18KT: Well well, just in general, but even towards the end of the film, how do you think that sort of dynamicism worked between them two?

78:24Ben: I believed it entirely, and I feel like they were gonna be closer. Like, there's no way that the Dude and Walter are not gonna be friends for life. They are with each other forever. And the beauty of their friendship is they are polar opposites. Walter is walking, talking Yeah. Vietnam vet, the embodiment, and the Dude, you know, he's a pacifist. He wants no part of it. They are complete polar opposite. It's it's your Republican party and your Democrat party right there in a friendship in a best friendship,

78:55Ben: and somehow it works. And isn't that a kind of that isn't that a kind of positive thing as well? Yet another, like, just take it easy in life, man. We we got polar opposite fucking views, but we still get along. It's that it's that hippie it's that hippie mentality. And Walter is totally, totally there to show the complete antithesis of everything that the Dude is. But

79:20Ben: the Dude still loves him. The Dude still needs him. They still need each other. They need each other. Walter loves the Dude.

79:31KT: And I think there was a scene earlier on in the film where I think it was where Walter's character was saying, put it to zero. Put it to zero. And he was getting frustrated at Lebowski, and he was like or the Dude. And he was like, why don't you care? Why don't you care about anything? Right? And that shows the stark sort of comparison between these two characters and exactly what mostly Ben, but sometimes Oti, was saying that there is a balance between the two.

79:56Ben: Yeah. That's it. Like, for Walter, he's like, does nobody give a fuck about the rules anymore? For Walter, there's a way of life. There's guidelines. This is how you live. This is what you do. This is my this is my area. This is your area. This is how things must be done. Where the Dude's like, well, let's just take it as we go. Let's take it in stride. Let's do this. Let's try that. Whatever. It's two very, very different walks and different ways of life. Oh, totally. And they complement each other perfectly, man. And I think I think Just I just like the polar opposites of you two on this podcast and your and your views, you feel

80:28Ben: you come together and you record despite hating each other?

80:32KT: I think there's a way to argue. And, you know, there there are some people that you hear arguing and you're like, oh, wow. That's rough. Yeah. But we have a way of, like, bringing levity when we just, like, okay. You can have your opinion. And as much as I besmirch him, Oti does have his own opinions as well.

80:52Ben: Just coming just opinions are valid totally even if they may be wrong. Nah. At some point.

81:00KT: But, you know, just coming back to these characters we have here, it was so essential that you had that balance between the two. And a lot of the times when we were watching this film, I was saying to Oti, like, just disregard the fact that, you know because I you know, life is hard. Right? I don't know if I could handle the emotional weight of having, you know, Walter as a friend, you know, to have to to to constantly

81:32KT: tend to because, you know, people are at different stages in their life and they need different sort of check ins, if you will. You know, you have different sorts of friends and that sort of thing. So I'm not sure if I could have a Walter in my life, if you will. And I was saying that to Oti, just, like, suspend that for a second and just enjoy the film for what it is. Because if you detach yourself from having a friend like Walter, it becomes much more enjoyable

81:57KT: to have as a film. I'm a very black and white sort of person, so I think that's why I related to Walter a lot more than maybe most people would. Because I'm just like, you drank out of my mug, Karen. We cannot be friends anymore.

82:12Ben: Yeah. Right? I get that. I get that. But Don't don't get me wrong. I am so uptight in life. I wish I was the Dude, but I am probably Walter too.

82:23KT: And you know what? That's the lesson for today. You might think you're the Dude, but you're Walter. And there are some demons that you need to reconcile within yourself.

82:32KT: You might even be the demon too. And you know what? We're not anti Satanists as well. So if that's you, go and get your best life. Just don't turn out like Donny, even though we do love a Steve Buscemi in the For Your Reference household. I really don't feel like there's anything else we can say. Ben, is there anything else you wanna add?

82:56Ben: Do know what? I never knew that when I knew that we were going to do this podcast on Big Lebowski, I thought we'd just shoot the shit about some some of the jokes and things like that. I have never thought, even in my film studies days, when I was having to write an essay on this film, I don't think I ever went as deep as we just went, particularly on the Walter thing. I think this podcast should be studied. Think this podcast should be submitted to film schools around the world just based on the wounded masculinity present in Big Lebowski. Goddamn.

83:25Ben: You opened my eyes to a film that I thought my eyes were wide open already. And and I I'm sorry, Oti, that you didn't get on board with it as much. Because you know why it hurts me the most? One of the beautiful miracles in life. How many wonders of the world are there? Like eight or nine? Seven. Okay, let's say there's seven. There's an eighth, Right? And it is your laugh. I'm talking about you, specifically.

83:55Ben: Let me tell you, Oti's laugh, right? That's a throwback to the beginning of this podcast. When I said no matter when you're low, however you're feeling, you can whack on Joker or you can whack on The Big Lebowski. There's a third element. You can whack on your podcast and you can wait for Oti's laugh. Because when you hear Oti's laugh, everything is right in the world. Aw. It's infectious. We at film, just talk about the Oti laugh. It's infectious. And it pains me that a film which tries to go for laughs left you

84:25Ben: kind of hollow without the laughter. I feel like I I brought down one of the great wonders in the world by suggesting a film that didn't get the laughs out of you. I feel like I one of the wonders of the world just fell down. No.

84:39Oti: No. No. Like

84:43Ben: That's a speechless kind of thing. I I know that that that sort of sound when you go, how do I respond to this fucking freak?

84:48Oti: No. Like, don't get me wrong. I went into this with high expectations. I might be still holding on to that. But it's not a bad movie. I got what they were trying to do, and fair play to them, and whoever loves this movie and can get laughter and humor out of this in as much as it does for you because it didn't really necessarily do it for me. But I do understand the complexities,

85:20Oti: and I think I clinged on more to that rather than trying to enjoy it solely because I was so fixated on Walter and the Dude in what they were trying to be and how that all worked out. So maybe I do need twice this five, six, seven times to be able to let go of that and enjoy it purely for what it is.

85:41Ben: But you know what? Just whatever brings you joy, man. Whatever brings you joy. Exactly.

85:45Oti: And for you out there, whatever brings you joy.

85:49Ben: And whatever brings you joy, of course. Whatever brings us all joy.

85:49KT: No. That was Oti's cue to say I bring him joy.

85:56Oti: Alright. Oh. Oh, what?

86:04Ben: How many years you guys been together, and he's still not getting the prompt. That

86:09Oti: was a K Maybe that explains why I didn't get a big Lebowski.

86:15KT: K All the last were there. You just kept missing them. Yeah. KT is the Big Lebowski of the podcasting world, unfortunately. Well, there you go, guys. That was the verbal, k, I'll text you in two weeks from Oti. Well, what a what a lovely expedition we took together. If you still have snacks, tell us your secret because I would have finished our snacks in first five minutes of this episode. We are going to wrap up in a segment we call

86:47KT: For Your Reference. I feel like we are all pleasured and we have all splooshed and crescendoed to the end to the maximum fluidity of amount. So, you know, if this is your first time listening, because you might have from the Filmbusters podcast or if you listened to it For Your Reference before, this is a segment where we talk about, you know, if you've liked this movie or even in Oti's case, I am genuinely curious what he would recommend.

87:15KT: These are the things that you should watch if you liked it or if you didn't like it. So, Ben, would you like to start us off?

87:21Ben: Cool. I will go with one movie and one TV show. The TV show is gonna be Fargo. Oh, no. Even though the Coen's did the the movie, which which was great, think the TV show is actually more in keeping with the Coen brothers' typical style and definitely The Big Lebowski style because there's that kind of like what Oti was saying, like, even though it's meant to be funny, the humor is sort of like bubbling beneath the surface. So it's never laugh out loud. You're never sure when you're meant to laugh.

87:50Ben: But the stories in Fargo are so tight, sometimes so deep, but there's a dark humor in there throughout, which is just incredible. And the TV show itself, I just think is incredible in the way that it plays out like many shows you've seen before, but with its own unique twist. And that's kind of what Lebowski did for me. And the movie is a toss-up between one that's a Coen brothers, recent Coen brothers on Netflix, The Ballad of Buster Scruggs

88:19Ben: Mhmm. Which I don't know if you guys have seen that film. Have you guys seen that on on Netflix? No. No. Who's in it? So it's kinda weird. It's James Franco's in it's got it's it's like a ensemble cast. James Franco's in it. Liam Neeson's in it. It's a series of about seven or eight short films all set in in the West, the old American West, but it has this typical, Coen brothers humor yet strange strangely dark storytelling at the same time. Oh. And musical numbers.

88:54Ben: The the opening one is the best one. The the actual Buster Scruggs story is the best one. So, anyway, it's a toss-up between that, and it's a toss-up between No Country for Old Men, which is

89:03Oti: No Country for Old Men. That was a really cool

89:09Ben: That says it all, Oti. That's it's Oti's heart. No laughs. Just give me the darkness. Just give me the darkness, Oti says.

89:16KT: Also, shout out to Sam Elliott. We did not even get to talk about him in this episode. Sam Elliott. Of course. Wow. I'm sure that mustache has seen quite a lot. A lot of lovely places. It's seen some action for sure. Definitely. Oti. Oh, I don't know. This is you know what? If people have been listening for this whole episode and their bosses haven't been bothering them there at work, this is high anticipation. No pressure.

89:42Oti: No. If you're like me out there that really didn't understand The Big Lebowski and what it's all about, And we've listened to this podcast with Ben and KT both telling us really valid points and really wanna understand what this is all about. I recommend rewatching The Big Lebowski. That's my recommendation. Come on. Come fight me.

90:04Ben: Solid recommendation, that.

90:05Oti: I am going to rewatch this just so that I could probably fully appreciate to its full glory. I feel like there's a glitch in the simulation.

90:14KT: How is this I think this is the first time we've referenced the actual referent. You've broken me.

90:23Ben: I'm with that.

90:24KT: You've broken me in ways I didn't know I could be broken.

90:24Oti: No. Like, if you've watched it for the first time, I think we deserve to rewatch it just to better understand and get what they're trying to put up. I'll take you up on that.

90:38KT: And feel free to follow us on Twitter to see if Oti follows through with that promise because we are definitely watching this film again. Yep. Oh, hell yes. And I will reference Raising Arizona because like I mentioned, this was Raising Arizona was, like, about a decade ish before this. And John Goodman was also in there, but he's more useful in this film in particular. But wow. And I didn't even know that this was the Coen brothers in both films. And the fact that I was able to draw thematic, stylistic, you know, cinematography

91:11KT: through this is a credit to them as an entity. So

91:17Ben: I I'm glad you say Raising Arizona because I can actually take your your recommendation and go and watch it because I have never seen Raising Arizona.

91:26KT: You know, I've never correct this. I've never watched Nic Cage, and that was the first Nic Cage film I've watched.

91:31Ben: So and it sounds like it is worth it, so I'm gonna go check it out. Yeah. And we're all first ever film. Right?

91:39KT: I'm I I actually Oh, no. No. It wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't. I think it's been around before that. The only reference I have is Abed from Community and Nic Cage of him being a sexy cat. And see? There is a generation that will understand my references. But for everyone else in the Venn diagram, thank you for listening. That is our segment. Let's start to wrap it up. Ben, Paul, and also Adam, because I know you guys are embodied. You are the holy trinity of podcasts. You're most welcome.

92:11KT: Where can we find you? Where can we find oh, wow. That actually meant a lot, especially because I said you were the holy trinity. Yeah. That was spiritual a spiritual blessing I gave you there. I appreciate you as Jude Law being the pope and not the old men being the popes. Where can we find you on your podcast and also on a day to day sort of basis?

92:34Ben: So where can you find us? Our podcast, you must simply search for Filmbusters or sometimes Filmbusters Pods on whatever listening device you rely on, whatever one of your choosing. You can also find us on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, all the usual socials at Filmbusters or Filmbusters Pod. And if you wanna follow-up with our daily ramblings, because me and Paul particularly, Adam less so because Adam prefers to operate in the background like those. I guarantee. Yeah. Yeah. Me and Paul, we tweet

93:08Ben: too much probably, and you can find us at Filmbusters Paul and at Filmbusters Ben and at Filmbusters Adam. And,

93:17Ben: yeah, just keep up with us. If if you like, we only do new cinema releases because we're sellouts like that, but we try to mix it up a little bit so we don't just do the big blockbusters. We try and throw in a little curveballs there. And I like I like to be the contrarian voice in the in the chat. So stick around and listen to us if you'd like to hear some arguments.

93:36KT: Perfect. Thank you.

93:38Ben: This was actually a pleasurable podcast to be on because I didn't I didn't feel like I could attack you guys very much. I attack my guys all the time. It was nice to not have to attack for once. I think because we attack each other. We there there is a mutiny.

93:51KT: There is a mutiny. There is a mutiny in the state of Denmark, which is known as For Your Reference. That is a Hamlet reference. You think I wouldn't do it, Oti? I did it. Kenneth Branagh is a king to all.

94:03Oti: Oh, dear.

94:05KT: For more for more of that learned Yes?

94:11Ben: I I thought going international with you guys. This is like around the world podcast.

94:17KT: First time. First time I've ever done this. And we're most welcome to break you in. And that is not a reverse. That is a full frontal perma noctis. For for more of such intelligible ramblings on Twitter and Instagram, we are For Your Ref Pod. You can also send us an email on hello@fyrpodcast.com. For Oti, that definitely exists. And, you know, I like to believe that a world exists where you can listen to For Your Reference and also Filmbusters

94:47KT: because we don't compete each other. As much notably, we actually love each other more than we love ourselves, which we're not going to get into today. But, you know, support us if you'll be so welcome. On Apple Podcasts, Filmbusters are also on there as well as For Your Reference. If you could leave us a rating, that would be most welcome. Depending on which side that you sit on, five stars would be most welcome. Yeah. Always. And thank you so much for joining us, Ben. We really appreciate you having you on the The

95:19Ben: the pleasure is all mine. Thank you so much, guys, for having having me on. I I feel I feel truly blessed, and, I hope that in the not too distant future, the sequel collaboration is on the horizon, and we get you guys onto the Filmbusters pod. We just need to work out the right film because we need to work out the cinema releases that that are coming out same time for us as as for you over there. Do you get films before us or after?

95:42KT: Before. Before?

95:44Ben: Oh, okay. Alright. So you you'd you'd be ahead on the game. So you can check something out and let us know, and then and then we we will do it. But this is not the end. We're gonna set up a fucking franchise of this collaboration.

95:54KT: Real mad and it feels so good. I'm

95:57Ben: It's a Nine-Nine reference you're doing there.

96:02KT: How dare you? References are

96:06Ben: that show in your household?

96:08KT: Oti does on a sad, lonely night on his own. Well,

96:14Ben: you need to give that a shot. See? Okay. Now we tap into Oti's sense of humor. I get it. Big Lebowski and Brooklyn Nine-Nine are not on the same page. Now we get it. Next time, I'll do better.

96:14KT: They're not in the same frame of reference. And thank you so much for listening, guys, and we'll see you next week. See you. Bye. Bye for me too.