The Beast in Me – Jekyll & Snide

Full transcript of The Beast in Me – Jekyll & Snide.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household. Um, a little tasting menu, friends and lovers. Unfortunately, I don't think we've covered Claire Danes. No, not Homeland. We needed to Romeo and Juliet. Mm-hmm. Uh, one of these fine days friends and lovers, uh, but Matthew Rhys, a long love, very sad friend and lover of the For Your Reference podcast. Go and check out our Perry Mason episode. Oh so good. Needs to come back. It needs to come back. But we see him as a sad, depressed man standing at a lighthouse in at least three other shows.

0:40Oti: True. He's turning into the Will Arnett.

0:42KT: No offense in that things get canceled. We, we love Matthew Rhys. Uh, I guess you can say how you feel about Will Arnett, but, um, I'm excited to talk about this one. Are you The Beast in Me? Sh. Yeah. Then the novels, friends and lovers, don't worry about it. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends, and please don't call the police lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference household. Just buy some fucking earplugs, man, right?

1:21Oti: Yeah, that it's too easy, isn't it?

1:23KT: It's too easy. Welcome back to the For Your Reference Podcast. I'm host, KT

1:29Oti: and Oti.

1:30KT: Sign your name on the gated community line, or see how far your principles get you sticking it to the deep pocket man. Mm, mm-hmm. Hide from the Jekyll. But the JE might be in your Hide with The Beast in Me this week. What the malice you are, you know there is a sub genre for everyone. Friends and lovers, welcome, welcome. If by some delicious sumptuous Splooshy miracle, you have stumbled upon our nasty little podcast from this particular review. Maybe there's a Claire Danes fandom, maybe there's a Matthew Rhys fandom out there that has found us. You are most welcome. Um, and for all of our friends and lovers that have been around, uh, this is our. Full review, um, big boy reviews. So there will be spoilers. As of now, we're going to get into our first impressions, um, which are spoiler free, but, uh, just in general. 'cause we, you know, we love to bring the beast in all of us, in all of the places, friends and lovers, quite all. So, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler,

2:49Oti: Rhys and Danes can do no wrong in this Worldpac drama. It pulls you in with its quiet tension. Though the final stretch runs a bit offbeat, slightly marring what is otherwise a gripping and well told story.

3:05KT: Hmm. Okay.

3:08Oti: Not in agreement.

3:10KT: No, I agree. Rhys and Danes offer a dynamic push and pull that keeps intrigue throughout. At times it meanders in the madness. However, the narrative pulls no punches, and every blow is effective.

3:32Oti: Ooh. Like, fuck Michael Tossum blow to the face.

3:36KT: I'm talking 96 Hole with the Bass Rapper album of the year. While we're on our tangent, you got,

3:44Oti: uh. Uh, I love Let God Sort Em Out. Love everything about it. But geez, GNX also came out that year. So be it. So be it. Yep. Whoever wins, well deserved.

4:02KT: Whoever wins. Well deserved. Well, I, I guess before we even get to this show, um, let's just lay a little bit of love, uh, for Claire Danes. Let's start off with Claire Danes. Um, I, I most notably know her from Romeo and Juliet, which is. Isn't a lot to say because she's had a whole career. I also didn't watch Homeland either, so I just get the full of love, tragic, romantic. Claire Danes, how about you? Do you have any memorable, uh, feelings or notes of Claire Danes at all?

4:41Oti: Uh, outside of Homeland and I didn't even finish Homeland itself. I watched like four seasons and then I tapped out. Um, but yeah, it's just Homeland and then bust.

4:52KT: Okay. Yeah. Got a lot of love for her. Mm. A lot of talent to go around. Mm-hmm. Speaking of a lot of talent to go around Matthew Rhys.

5:00Oti: Ooh, The Americans.

5:03KT: Yeah.

5:04Oti: Yeah. What a show, what a man,

5:08KT: The Americans and the diplomats.

5:11Oti: Yeah.

5:14KT: I say, I say this with all of the love in my heart. Matthew Rhys has a working class face.

5:24Oti: I don't want to What? What do you mean? Like the guy with um, A Thousand Blows, what's his name? The black man. Stephen

5:31KT: Graham.

5:31Oti: Yeah,

5:32KT: you Jamaican king.

5:35Oti: Gotta put a Jamaican king on a pedestal thumb.

5:39KT: Matthew Rhys has a working class face. And as someone that grew up working class Western Sydney, that is the highest compliment and highest praise I could give him. He looks like you're going through it, been through it and will go through it for you. Bebe, I just believing he was some hot shop billionaire. Was a smidge too far. Jeremy Strong. I think that's where you get it. It. It's that Lithia vase that's a plebs reference. Friends and lovers. This episode is for our British friends and lovers clearly

6:16Oti: Tilt it to an angle.

6:17KT: You tilted at an angle and it becomes Matthew Rhys and it becomes more working class.

6:22Oti: Mm.

6:22KT: Like Simon Pegg has a working class British face. This is a whole spinoff of a podcast, by the way, friends and lovers. I can. I don't, I I, I brought him You don't see him as a scruffy detective, as a Perry Mason. I'm not saying he didn't do well as Nile Jarvis. 'cause he was a fucking snide, persnickety, dickhead. Mm. Right. Maybe in a lovable way.

6:47Oti: I, I can buy him Dominic West

6:48KT: Ah, McNulty. He's got a working class face as well.

6:52Oti: Yeah. Wasn't he like, he wasn't rich, rich in The Affair, but he was sort of. Well to do, which sort of freaked me out.

7:01KT: But you know, like he's debauchery forward. He's debauchery first. You don't see the money, you just see the hole in the pocket. Yeah, that's the memoir. Dominic, get your people to hit up our peoples. You can have that title for free. I just love him. I love seeing him. I love seeing particularly. As, uh, Perry Mason, but you know, I will take him in every, every, every, in, every, in every Beast in Me. Thank you very much. Um, The Americans, what was your favorite role of Matthew Rhys?

7:40Oti: Oh, has to be The Americans.

7:43KT: Yeah.

7:44Oti: Yeah. Just because it's,

7:45KT: so, actually, actually, both

7:47Oti: stars have starred in sort of

7:49KT: all the stars.

7:51Oti: Yeah. Like what, five seasons plus.

7:56KT: Well, I, I am being very ignorant to, uh, the show. Is it like Russians pretending to be Americans? Is that what the show is?

8:06Oti: Yeah.

8:07KT: Oh, go on then. See,

8:09Oti: solve the mystery

8:10KT: because I, it had to be a white and a white. It's not Lupin.

8:16Oti: Maybe the Jamaican spice. How do you not know French? Oh, man. Geez.

8:25KT: But this was a nice little show coming to, coming Back to The Beast in Me, friends and lovers. This was a nice little show every now and then, friends and lovers amongst our screeners we have, amongst the screenings we go to for films, um, and also that all the anime we're watching as well. Every so often we'll pick up a series and very rarely we'll actually binge the whole thing.

8:50Oti: Yeah,

8:51KT: this was one of them.

8:52Oti: This was one of them.

8:53KT: Gotta be worth a, a chunky sort of, uh, critical lens perhaps. Mm. Um, I, I just wanna start off in general with this show and talk about or focus on Aggie Wiggs. That sounds like a fucking book name.

9:14Oti: It does.

9:14KT: Nile Jarvis also sounds like a book name, but Aggie Wiggs.

9:18Oti: Yeah.

9:19KT: Um, you know their kid that passed away? Cooper Morris-Wiggs. Why does that sound like, why does that sound like a Tyler Perry?

9:33Oti: Cooper Morris-Wiggs? Jeez.

9:36KT: Doesn't that just sound like DB Woodside should be his dad.

9:40Oti: Yeah. I don't know how you tilt the face, but.

9:45KT: Even the, even the kid that plays Cooper Morris-Wiggs, his name is Leonard Jerome,

9:59Oti: is, oh hey. I think we're done. Yeah. What can I say to that?

10:16KT: But let, let's, let's focus on Aggie, if not the opening scene. One of the first ways we're introduced to Aggie's character is her being. More than perturbed. I would say she was disturbed. I would say she was personally offended by the noises that were happening. Construction, reasonable construction noises. Reasonable as in, it's not like partying noises, right? Mm-hmm. We don't usually play how white are they? But at some point you just need to deal with discomfort and get some fucking earplugs. Is it really that big of a deal?

11:00Oti: It is. They, they paid for their property and they deserve some peace and quiet.

11:05KT: What do you mean they, she ran her whole family away. She was fucking by herself, loser.

11:11Oti: I was talking about the sea witch pipes. They had a life of their own. Oh my. No, but true. Um, we, we, we get introduced to her as very entitled, very sort of, that you'd come to expect with these sort of characters. Mm-hmm. Uh, the slightest inconvenience is the end of the world.

11:35KT: Yeah.

11:35Oti: And she carries that energy throughout the show.

11:38KT: Yeah.

11:39Oti: Um. And like so aggrieved. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the best thing that happened was interaction with the Nile Jarvis, who's, you know, supposed to be this rich guy, but he's quite straight. He's like straight on, just like you calling shit out.

12:00KT: Mm-hmm.

12:01Oti: And that ruffled her. She's not used to people telling her how it is.

12:06KT: Yeah. 'cause they just fucking leave. Who would deal with that?

12:12Oti: Yeah. Yeah.

12:14KT: But there was definitely something, 'cause it's like, hmm, is it really? And obviously we will get to it and we will paint a picture, but just in regards to who she was as a person, can we be very, very, very, very, very real? And obviously we can go through the nuance and the detail, but I'm just gonna say this off top. I don't think she gave a fuck about her kid, Cooper, respectfully, she'd not. She looked like she, she wanted to, she wanted to work to be away from her kid Respectfully.

12:44Oti: Hmm. She carried herself. And this is the thing with these sort of stories where we feel a way, we feel sorry for Aggie because she's lost a kid. No, we are introduced with, you know, like losing a kid. It's hard of course. A lot of the times when we see this happen, people don't really reconcile that way. The partner left.

13:06KT: They're grieving differently. Yeah. Yeah.

13:08Oti: So I was like, okay, I'm giving her a bit more yardstick just because you know, she's lost someone. So it's really, really hard. And then to realize why she felt that way towards the end, and I'm like. A fucking idiot.

13:24KT: Yeah. I hope, I hope, I hope Leonard, Jerome and Cooper Morris-Wiggs haunts you for the rest of your life.

13:33Oti: And, and, and it's that energy. She tried to blame everyone other than taking accountability for anything,

13:39KT: like how is it always someone else's problem?

13:42Oti: Mm-hmm. Like Teddy Fenig. Blame the hell out of her. Yeah. Blame the hell out of him.

13:50KT: Yeah.

13:51Oti: And to be like, oh, I'm gonna go to you. Walk through brick, through your window. Like, what are you doing? He's, he's,

13:59KT: he's,

13:59Oti: he's a kid,

14:01KT: but she shouldn't have been allowed to carry on like that. I'm so sorry. What? Because they were kind of in like a small town. I feel like that shouldn't fly. It shouldn't,

14:11Oti: it should not.

14:12KT: She was harassing a fucking kid. Because at what point? At what point? And shout outs to Shelly because she really brought a banger. She brought banger after banger after banger. I know she was an artist. I know she was a painter, but she was absolutely a poet. And she was like, stop trying to make up a murder and face yourself bro. Look inside of you, man. And I was like, woo. That's fucking right, man. 'cause honestly. And I'm pretty sure Shelly said this in the show, even if you are right, even if Teddy did wrong, what do you get out of it? We still lost our son

14:57Oti: years down the line.

14:59KT: Yeah. Well, I wouldn't put a, not

15:04Oti: years down the line of pestering this kid.

15:07KT: Oh, I thought you meant grief. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, absolutely.

15:09Oti: And to think that. If anything happened to Teddy and no one and the mother wouldn't blame you for it in any sort of way,

15:19KT: right. For you

15:20Oti: to feel offended that, but how dare you? How dare you? Me? Yeah. Oh,

15:26KT: some culpability.

15:28Oti: Mm.

15:28KT: Some accountability.

15:30Oti: Mm.

15:30KT: Some compassion if, if, if that is so bold to ask for in this cold fucking world. Because respectfully, I'm saying respectfully for the death of a fictional child, but all disrespect to Aggie, she didn't fucking care about that kid.

15:48Oti: And then in the scene where the, the kid died, she's in a car, she's barely giving any attention to the kid who a very

15:58KT: important interview,

15:59Oti: fuck off. And even hard trying to drop. Because Shelly was like, can you take, can you take Jerome? It's important to me. Can you take Cooper? It's important.

16:08KT: Yeah.

16:10Oti: And she was like,

16:11KT: take Jerome, this isn't Snowfall, Oti. Uh, take Cooper out. Yes.

16:22Oti: Yeah. And it's like,

16:24KT: she's like, what does she say? Your little show

16:27Oti: or something? Yeah. Like, ugh. What do he mean? I'm the one with the book deal. I'm the one bringing the money. You are just a mere artist. You should be bending backwards, doing everything

16:38KT: fuck off. And how many, like, how much of Shelly's career she sacrificed for Aggie to be able to do her author? Yeah.

16:45Oti: Like, ugh, go to the spa then.

16:47KT: Yuck. Disgusting. Ugh.

16:53Oti: Only for that to be revealed after all the pleading that she, she went through to Shelly and being like,

16:58KT: oh, I'm sorry. I love you. Like God. Like no fa, you're not capable of love. You monster.

17:05Oti: Uh, a little too late, man.

17:08KT: Yeah, Jojo. Oh, she just makes me so mad. And it's not saying that, like you are saying, like, it's not that you have to be an ideal grieving person. It's not that you have to grieve properly for people to feel sorry for you, but stop fucking inflicting pain, literal pain, and harming. That little kid, Teddy, I was like, you know what? And we're gonna get to it, friends and lovers eventually, but I just wanna say I felt like she got what was coming to her, right? She may not have done the crime, but I feel like she had dodged enough of her accountabilities that maybe that's what she deserved.

17:52Oti: And this is why when everything started to happen where Nile started. Spinning it out on her. I was like, oh my God, it's all aligning. Yeah, she fucking deserves this. Good. Let's go.

18:07KT: Isn't that what they say? The best lie has like a little bit of truth in it. Yeah. Her harassing that kid, it all played into it.

18:15Oti: But you might not have killed Teddy, but you made sure that that kid was never gonna,

18:22KT: but there's a power imbalance there.

18:23Oti: Mm

18:24KT: mm. We're obviously talking in a fictional world. Fuck that lady.

18:29Oti: Oh, a

18:30KT: hundred

18:30Oti: percent.

18:32KT: Because that's a kid too, not a baby like yours, but he was a kid.

18:36Oti: Yeah. Only for like even the accident scene where she's, she's the one that turned, she wasn't even paying attention to the road. No. She turned back to shout at the kid. Yeah. And that in your own fucking mind, you can. Compartmentalize, whatever it is to be like, it's, it's Teddy's fault.

18:59KT: Like, how does that mathematically work?

19:01Oti: It's these people that send, oh, it's that black guy that did this crime. Let's send him to jail. And then 20 years later, uh, conscious, you know, uh, I feel sorry made of this.

19:13KT: Are we? Yeah.

19:14Oti: Yeah.

19:14KT: Fuck you, fa No, fuck you.

19:16Oti: Geez.

19:17KT: May you and all your bloodlines be in jail for the rest of your life. Fuck off. You can't do a whoopsie.

19:24Oti: There's no whoopsie here. Oh man. She irritated the hell out of me,

19:31KT: but I think that's it. She just didn't take accountability. She wanted everyone to feel the most hurt that she's ever felt in her life. And you didn't even, Aggie didn't even really feel hurt if she did, it was to her pride. It was to her ego. It was to her image of what a perfect marriage and relationship and family was. Shelly's the one that felt the most hurt 'cause she actually fucking loved her kid. Yeah. And if we go back to that scene where she was reading her to filth all the way and becoming a ro. To Aggie reflecting on it now in that scene, I, I don't think I would've been able to denote to it, but reflecting on this scene when she, she kind of nudged that Aggie had more to do with the death of Cooper than Teddy. I kind of just took it as you are the parent, right? Mm. When she was like, what are you gonna get after out of harassing Teddy? Right. And when Shelly said that, reflecting on this, now, I feel like Shelly knew the details. I feel like Shelly knew that Aggie was so focused on that interview and you know, it's, it's very clear she's not very present as a parent, right? Yeah. So I'm sure Shelly knew that it had something to do with her. Yelling or something towards Cooper. Right. So she has the whole situation or a feeling of what might have happened. She would've felt the most hearing the news that Cooper died.

21:10Oti: Mm. And I'm pretty sure Shelly spent most of the time with Cooper.

21:15KT: Absolutely.

21:17Oti: I probably was just there at nighttime. Or did you make us dinner? Let me eat. I'm out. I've got a book deal. I've got all these meetings. Yeah, because look, got how important I You do

21:27KT: thaty. Yeah.

21:29Oti: Ugh.

21:31KT: With your little arts and crafts. I don't think she was good for anyone. Sorry. And you know what was really frustrating about a Aggie? I think, I guess it's a Aggie intervention, friends and lovers, but obviously a lot of the themes are explored through her character. What really frustrated me about Aggie, 'cause my thing is. If you're a shit cunt, just be a shit cunt. Like don't pretend. Right. Yeah. And that was her problem. And Nile, you know, everyone was literally a mirror to her because even Nile was like, you're exactly like me. I see you. I see you. We are cut from the same cloths. I see you. Right. And that's what was frustrating about Aggie. 'cause she didn't. She didn't want to admit to herself that she was a fucking monster or she was a beast, so she hid behind pleasantries that she could never really deliver. Anyway, she was never really made to associate with the general population. Right, because she thinks she's better than everyone the same way that Nile does, but she just didn't have the balls to live that way. Yeah. So some, like, some sort of like demigod from Olympus, she's, she's, she's frustrated that she has to live with the common folk.

22:54Oti: Mm-hmm. Yeah. E exactly. It's, it's one of those things where she is just always, I don't know how people like her exist in this sort of world. No, I know they're there. I just mean how they operate on a day to day. Without feeling

23:14KT: bubble, I think is the word. It's a bubble.

23:18Oti: It is a bubble.

23:20KT: I'm sure. Aggie's. Aggie's mom was probably like that too. Probably Agro Wiggs. Just, just the long line of entitlement, I suppose. Hmm. Let's talk about Nile. How did you feel about him as a character? He was very unsettling, but you know what? In this format of fiction, I'm like, play on, you know, because it, it makes sense to me that he's that depraved. It was more Aggie that I'm like, Hmm, you need to take your mask off. But talk to me about Nile.

24:03Oti: Yeah. You can tell there's something sinister with him from the get go.

24:07KT: Like picking wings off insects and shit.

24:10Oti: Yeah, yeah. Like you know, he's done some shit as a kid, but then you could tell by meeting Martin Jarvis that the dad was Mike not the best

24:21KT: Mike.

24:22Oti: Yeah.

24:23KT: Breaking Bad Mike.

24:24Oti: Yeah. Like you can tell man them put him on some weird shit. He

24:28KT: also has a working, he also has a working class. Uh, goons face. Goons. Well, does he have Fortune 400 or is it 500? It

24:41Oti: can be 400.

24:42KT: It's 500. Well clip off the hundred for him,

24:46Oti: but Yeah, like if he, if that's your dad, bro. It is. It's something.

24:50KT: He looks like the one that shakes people down for money, not the ones that are in the skyscrapers.

24:55Oti: Well, he was shaking people down for money though.

24:58KT: Yeah, but not in a blue collar way. Yeah. I mean, in a rough and tumble, like your pants up to your nipples.

25:06Oti: Mm-hmm. So I like, yeah. Now I, I got him as a character, but what I loved about him, and it's sort of where it's this, it's not that, because he was the an, he was a antagonist where it's like, oh. Then I like him or I feel like he needs to go down. I didn't feel like any point that I want him to go down or anything like that. Just because Aggie Yeah. So I was like, okay, cool. Let's, let's see what, what else can do? And, and everything that he orchestrated, because Aggie was writing a book, The Beast in Me, only for. Nile to come and have corrections in there and saying, you know, crossing our hand and being in Yeah. I'm like, yeah, exactly. Aggie has been the monster has been the beast in this throughout.

25:59KT: Yeah, because EE, even if Nile faces his demons, how about yours?

26:05Oti: Exactly. Exactly. Oh. So

26:10KT: will I, I must say it was very satisfying, like obviously Teddy is a, a young kid and it was sad Fictionally when he died, but when they, when they got to that setup. You saw Teddy was in Oscar's room and it was made to be like Aggie had kept him there that whole time. Oh, Ben

26:33Oti: was fist bumped,

26:34KT: throw up on the grill. That was so satisfying.

26:40Oti: It was, and that's why I thought, okay, this show is speaking like. Let's end it there. Ah, but of course not. You know, because with this sort of shows, maybe it was a book or whatever, Nile had to go down.

26:58KT: Mm.

26:59Oti: And, and how they tried to, so with that process of, oh, are being on the run, trying to call everyone, agent Erica, whatever her name, Erica. Yeah. And being like, oh. I need help, whereas just give me the evidence I gave you.

27:19KT: I hope she's not cast like typecast as a cheetah face.

27:23Oti: I don't think she would be.

27:25KT: You said that,

27:30Oti: uh, yeah. I, I just, and this is where in, in my initial sort of review thing, I was like. I enjoyed everything up until how they tried to close this down because everything that Nile did to set up Aggie was so perfect, and everything she did to take down Nile was fucking ridiculous and stupid.

27:55KT: Oh, yeah.

27:56Oti: And it, it, it involved, it, it, it, it was, and shrouded in believe women or the power of women or feminism or whatever the hell.

28:07KT: Yeah,

28:08Oti: that brought Nile down.

28:10KT: It cheapens it.

28:11Oti: It just felt exactly, it just felt cheap. The same

28:14KT: lofty sort of politics that they had as well in this show. Like

28:17Oti: we, we know that Nina, there's some tension between Nina and Nile. Mm. Like there's this quiet moments where you could tell she's thinking a lot, like, I don't know. But there's no vibe in her that where she thinks, oh. Nile killed my best friend now.

28:36KT: Yeah. But I don't really know how, again, li like you said, maybe there are some pages that don't exist on the screen, but I don't even know how we mathematically got from there to there. It didn't make sense. It No,

28:52Oti: uh, what they showed us of Nina and Nile not having the perfect relationship, but still Nile being like. Oh, I'll have a kid with you. And that moving Nina to tears and being like, oh my God, shit. Really?

29:05KT: Especially because Nile never wanted children.

29:08Oti: Yeah. So I thought Nina would bloody clinging onto that.

29:12KT: Yeah.

29:12Oti: Because she wanted that so much.

29:14KT: Yeah. And

29:15Oti: she was scared that N will be like piss off because it's, it wasn't part of the plan. And for it to be like, it takes Aggie, who you already think killed Teddy. I'm being like. You know, Nile did all these terrible things.

29:34KT: Believe women

29:35Oti: just believe me, I don't have any proof. I have nothing but my word. Just look internally and you'll see

29:41KT: like he seems suss, right?

29:43Oti: Yeah.

29:44KT: Like me. See,

29:47Oti: he had bruises on his body. Like it just didn't make sense. And then for her to go in and start recording and try to pull all those thread from Nile, like, no, you're fucking smarter than that. Yeah. It just felt, it just felt so cliche in that moment, and for her to then be at the press conference being like, oh yeah, Aggie is released and she's there to witness Nile getting arrested. I'm like, fuck off. What is this? Yeah. It felt very cheap. And Anand, and you know, in the real world, this shit doesn't happen. Aggie goes to jail forever. And that's the end of the show. Yeah, you got, you got Rick. Who's threatening Erica with everything. Erica is never going to speak because she cares about her kids. But you take the word of you. Take that. Oh, just believe me, your husband is the worst person ever. I just don like, yeah. Mm.

30:47KT: Just believe me, the show's almost over. We're running out of runtime. I also, um, p say, you know, friends and lovers, if you are aspiring or if you have a screenplay or a series or a short film. Might you take some advice from little old KT that has nothing to do with the industry that just loves films with my whole heart and TV and the storytelling format. Stop fucking writing plots about kids. Hmm. Because clearly there's nothing more to be ventured and nary a thing to be gained because. Go away. So his whole life, because he was treated like a nothing, he didn't wanna have children, which furthers the narrative of if you don't have kids or if you don't wanna have kids, there's a defect in you.

31:52Oti: Yeah,

31:53KT: right. As opposed, sometimes it's just

31:55Oti: on kids.

31:55KT: It's like, and people having kids are fully healed and not inflicting generational trauma onto their kids. Okay. Good luck. Good boy. Um, and then. This whole turnaround that's happening because Nina's gonna have his baby. And do you really care? Do you really want a baby? Step out and have a baby with someone else? Who cares? Big whoop. This is a, this is a story about a thriller where we're getting set up for murder and shit, and you can't go and step out and have a baby with another man. Ooh, scary. Really? Yeah. Like enough, like I'm just, even, even if you wanted to have a storyline about kids or whatever, like make it interesting. Make it compelling, man.

32:40Oti: Mm.

32:47KT: I want to talk about politics. Mm. Olivia Benitez is kind of that sort of vessel. It's like our Neuman in The Boys. Mm-hmm. Uh, and you know, ani maybe in real life as well, but it, it speaks to, and I don't know how deeply you want to get, obviously we can just stay within the context of the show, but there's very much she'll come round, especially from Martin. He is like, she'll come round, she'll run outta money. Like she'll soon realize she can only have this pulpit because of us. Yep. You ain't ever gonna get, you ain't ever gonna get a scene with Colin Farrell's Penguin. 'cause that was very beautiful. You know, he found a way to mobilize the working peoples, and I think that was done very effectively. Penguin was this year, was it not last, was it last year? Last year. But anyway, it, it was in recent memory, it was a very good way of melding politics in a grounded way. Right? Mm. Man's just wanted electricity in his apartment for his mama. That's a tagline. Friends and lovers. Yeah. So I wanna talk about how the political theater, 'cause it is theater at the end of the day, they don't really fucking care. Or maybe they do. I would love to hear your thoughts.

34:11Oti: No one cares. And Olivia was so, it's good to have ideals, but you also need to be realistic of what you want to achieve.

34:23KT: You knew she was gonna fall in the wind.

34:25Oti: Exactly. Like there's only so much you can achieve the way she wanted to do.

34:29KT: Yeah.

34:30Oti: And knowing that these people control everything.

34:33KT: Yeah.

34:34Oti: They're billionaires. What do you, what the fuck do you think you've gotta do with your little protest seat?

34:39KT: Yeah. The development, the housing rights Association, the zoning permits, the, the contractors, the subcontractors, the, even the materials that get used to be built. Hmm.

34:54Oti: She, again, I understand her stance and I like it's good to you

35:05KT: applaud the Greg Succession principles.

35:07Oti: Yeah, like

35:08KT: we all need that.

35:09Oti: Racism is bad. You know, that sort of, you know, Greg sort of, you know, you don't vibe with it, but then you go into Olivia's sort of world where she's. She wants to rise up the DNC or whatever, become, you know, rise up the ranks. But geez,

35:29KT: unless you are gonna pull that whole shit down, it's a mechanism.

35:33Oti: Mm.

35:33KT: And it's in everyone's fat pocket interest to stay that way.

35:38Oti: Yeah. But my worry is not really worry if you, if you stand with that, like. I'm a hundred percent with you. Like, yeah, be about your morals. Go and protest your heart out. But don't, don't be swayed when you feel that you're now backed into a corner or you're going to lose something.

36:02KT: Because what does that mean?

36:03Oti: Because if you lose, you lose.

36:05KT: Yeah.

36:05Oti: But you stand on it.

36:06KT: Stand on it.

36:07Oti: And that's what, that's, that's the thing, right?

36:09KT: She ka wouldn't stand down.

36:10Oti: She was like, oh my God, this, what does this mean for my career? Oh, no. Suck off then it's, it's all self, self-interest. And this is what I've been saying this whole time. You get people who are all about it.

36:24KT: Mm.

36:24Oti: You elect them into it, into power. They become members of parliament, they become whatever. Once they get into government, they're completely fucking different people.

36:35KT: Even if they had the best intention.

36:36Oti: Yeah,

36:37KT: because then they just get swallowed up and, but then that's so convenient to shrug and be like, well, democracy. And it's like D mock these, I'm serious. Yeah, because it's, it's not even about the plight of the people. Yeah, it's about the lining on your pocket. Right.

36:56Oti: Because I think even what with the ending where she finally goes on pub publicly and they shake out with Nile Jarvis, and then he gets arrested immediately after

37:08KT: that's,

37:09Oti: she's solo for her career as well.

37:11KT: Yeah. You would hope that people, and we know not to, but you would hope that people have the wherewithal. And the critical eye to even understand that the gesture, right? The media press release of offering affordable housing while they're able to offset all the other grimy shit they do, isn't anything other than a way to save face.

37:44Oti: Nah, you give people too much credit.

37:46KT: We don't get free, otherwise,

37:48Oti: you give people too much credit. People are shit, people is dumb out here.

37:53KT: Hey Drake, they're not slow,

37:55Oti: bro. There's, there's massacres going on in East Africa. There's Tanzania shit's happening. The president's acting out. Weirdly, it's wild. CNN did sort of an expose and you have. Some guys from Tanzanian just being like, oh, this is all a lie. This is all propaganda. This is like you'll get dumb people all the fucking time. Shit happens like this all the time. You can't put your faith in this dumb ass people.

38:31KT: We can't put faith in these dumb ass people. Um, but I, I do just wanna lay some love and respect to, um, it's, it's over 130 lives that have been lost in Hong Kong. Um. Apparently there were people, whether it was organizations or whether it was just the community that were putting together like, you know, food packs and like resources to share with families and the victims of families and the government told them to fucking move,

39:06Oti: like.

39:06KT: Quote unquote safety concerns, but no one really fucking cares. At the end of the day. They need to be like, the government need to be able to respond, and we're not Jackie Chan, so we're gonna talk about Hong Kong friends and lovers, but it's that, right? It's never about helping people. It's always about who can be the politician that's shaking the hand to give the baby formula to the children. Yep. That's all it's about. Mm-hmm. If they can get a kickback along the way, that's what it's about.

39:38Oti: Yeah. Election. The philipps time is promised time. The

39:40KT: Philippines are currently protesting 'cause of the fucking corrupt government, like lock in friends and lovers. And you know, when you start to tap in to all of the corruption in the world, you won't be fucking wanting to call the police over some scary loud noises that have nothing to do with you Aggie. So I guess in a world of Aggies, who should you be? Oti. A Nile.

40:03Oti: Yeah. Just don't exist.

40:07KT: Damn bro.

40:08Oti: Mm-hmm.

40:09KT: What am I supposed to say to that Oti? Jerome?

40:15Oti: Oh my God. No. But solid show. Um, solid watch. Solid watch. Very, it sparked a lot of emotions, which is what a good show does.

40:30KT: It's what a great show does. Mm-hmm. But this was a good show with some working class, uh, faces in some blue collar places. Mm-hmm. Thank you friends and lovers for joining us another week in the For Your Reference podcast. We will, uh, finish off running segment we call For Your Reference. Oti.

40:58Oti: Uh, ma I'm going down the ma Matthew Rhys train, um, Perry Mason.

41:06KT: Yay.

41:08Oti: Hmm.

41:10KT: I'm going down. The working class will rise again. Penguin.

41:18Oti: Nice.

41:19KT: Colin Farrell. Yeah. Cristin Milioti.

41:21Oti: Mm-hmm. Congrats all around. Oh, maybe it was this year. Jesus. It's, it's actually Nove December. Yes. November. It's December.

41:29KT: I just know it's Sinners forever, baby.

41:32Oti: Mm. Mm-hmm.

41:35KT: Uh, if you'd like to follow us on Twitter and Instagram we're @ForYourRefPod,

41:41Oti: write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

41:44KT: We're also on. I'm on my Sinners Oscars and Grammys campaign. Friends and lovers, if you would like to join the Unofficial Campaign podcast, if you'd like to leave a rating or review, and we'll see you guys on the next one.

41:57Oti: See you. Ah,