SWANAFF & FFFA – Baghdad in My Shadow, Quantum Cowboys, & Miguel’s War

Full transcript of SWANAFF & FFFA – Baghdad in My Shadow, Quantum Cowboys, & Miguel’s War.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and it is another film festival edition of Reference Max.

0:08Oti: Nice.

0:08KT: Slide it in and snap it off. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and Habibi lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT.

0:32Oti: And Oti.

0:34KT: to Reference Max, where we review shorts and films watched throughout the SWANA Film Festival and the Fantastic Film Festival Australia.

0:43Oti: Mm hmm. All spoiler free.

0:45KT: And in every other language, it's going to get muy caliente,

0:51Oti: Mm hmm. Woo hoo

0:51KT: ooh, ooh. Wow. In amongst, all of the PR stuff, it's been nice to be able to, you know, still do what we do, but do it in a sense that might be a bit different, to other episodes. So... Friends and lovers, just like the format of Reference Max, grab a beverage, grab a snack. Um, there's definitely not going to be any spoilers, and it's going to be a very interesting, episode today.

1:20Oti: Mm mm.

1:21KT: So, the weekend that just passed, if you were following us in a linear timeline of 2023, um, we kind of sandwiched, you know, a couple of screenings as a part of the SWANA. SWANA is the Decolonised... term for Southwest Asian and North African film festival. Um, so I went to a screening with a couple of shorts and a film on the Friday. Um, we went to a screening as a part of the Fantastic Film Festival Australia on the Saturday. Um, and then I went to, um, one more session with a short as well as a film on Sunday to conclude our delightful nasty splooshy film festival ride.

2:06Oti: Splooshy.

2:07KT: And we still have, uh, the South African Film Festival on the way.

2:10Oti: We do.

2:11KT: As well as the Sydney Film Festival as well, friends and lovers. So let's get into it. on the Friday night, it was the opening night for the SWANA Film Festival. and it was really cool to be able to. You know, hear speeches from the director of SWANA Film Festival, um, as well as just being able to see, you know, different sort of storytelling and filmmaking, especially from my point of view. it is a new sort of, um, experience for me in the lineup today. We have Syrian films, Egyptian films, Iraqi films, as well as Lebanese films. So we're definitely covering. All parts of the geographics. and I'm sure Oti can give us his Morocco football takes.

2:57Oti: Oh, I love the geographics.

3:02KT: So the SWANA Film Festival opening night, the three sets of shorts before the feature film. The first short film that was presented was called Rest in Piece, coming out of France, director Antoine Antabi and Oti, it was actually a claymation stop motion film.

3:20Oti: Oh!

3:21KT: Yeah, it was really, so this was a Syrian film. Um, and. I really, I would say I'm still deciding, but I would say it's in my top, if not my first favorite short of all of the shorts that I watch out of the film festival.

3:37Oti: Okay, interesting.

3:38KT: Yeah, I definitely don't want to spoil a lot, Friends and Lovers, as much as I can get details and research or when it will be available to watch, whether it's streaming or other film festivals, I'll definitely share it. But I guess to contextualize. This short, it focuses on a protagonist and essentially the soundbite that I would give for this short is sacrifice through survival.

4:06Oti: All right.

4:07KT: It is the best example of what a short film should be. Um, in the world of podcasting, uh, you know, sometimes people think a video with voice is a podcast, and I definitely am the gatekeeper of what a podcast is.

4:25Oti: Ha ha ha.

4:25KT: podcast wanker, absolutely. But the reason why I say that is there are absolutely different mediums, you know, even if you're talking about television or even short limited series, as opposed to like a feature length film. There's a There's a different sort of storytelling. There's a different sort of format. And may I even say there's a different sort of urgency and even the ability to be able to hit particular topics and hit it to the depth that we'll be able to have a lasting sort of memory and Rest in Piece was absolutely that, you know, it was able to encapture. The devastation of war, the necessity to continue to survive through war and the need to not necessarily relinquish, but the need to, I guess, like leave a part of your identity in order to survive and perhaps seek refuge in other lands.

5:22Oti: and

5:23KT: Yeah. And uh, the, the reason why I'm saying it's the best, like it was, the best use of a short film format is because it was claymation, because it was stop motion. There was a lot that was conveyed in the short film without having to have pages and pages of dialogue. You know, there was a lot of visual sort of cues that happened in. That was also the sound design was also really great as well. Like literally no notes. I just, I really got into it and I also don't want to spoil anything either. But, I guess the takeaway of Rest in Piece, P I E C E, is sacrifice through survival.

6:03Oti: That's pretty neat because I think for me, when, when I go into a film, like I remember my first experience of watching a stop motion sort of film and it always stuck with me. I think I had such a visceral reaction to it back then that now every time I watch anything that is claymation, I have a sort of flashback when the story isn't gripping, I sort of just zone out. So, did it play, like you said, the visuals were good for you and it played a big part in you enjoying the story more. Yeah. If this was just shot live action, would it have detracted from you sort of getting something from it?

6:41KT: Well, I think even if we, um, even if we don't consider live action, because obviously there are a lot of mediums, you know, there's a beauty to animation as well, right? And there are, there are ways to convey a story. Story, a plot or you know, a character sort of arc in animation that you can't necessarily achieve in live action. Mm-hmm. Right. I'm not even talking about Bulma's little blue strip in Dragon Ball Evolution. So there, there was definitely, and you're right, there's a certain level of risk. it's one of those

7:26Oti: Nice. Kudos, man. I'm glad you enjoyed it that much. Um, it's one of those that I've definitely put in my watch list and I'm looking forward to it.

7:34KT: Also, shout outs to Phoebe, my fellow film digester. it was really nice to go to the film festival with her and also be able to digest, the experiences as well.

7:47Oti: Nice.

7:47KT: Also, I must admit, the reason why I'm plugging Phoebe right now is because we bought Maltesers and I didn't know when to pass them to her because it already started off very heavy and the next short was also very heavy as well.

8:06KT: middle? I don't need to give away my trickery claymation secrets. Ha ha

8:13Oti: skills.

8:13KT: The next short film that we have is called The Fall, coming out of Australia. This is a Syrian film from director Mert Beldilek. In regards to cast, we have Majid Chokhor as well as Taj Aldeeb. This short, I read the synopsis and it didn't hint to the heavy subject matter. So in that regard, I won't. Explicitly say what the heavy subject matter is. However, what I will say is that, you know, a lot of the time, Oti, I talk about how it's important to have a talanoa for the fale, you know, we exist in a world where we are. Potentially regarded as the minorities, right, where we definitely want to challenge and make sure that our community is doing right by everyone, but we're also very conscious of the outside lens,

9:09Oti: Right.

9:10KT: right? And The Fall absolutely addresses that.

9:14Oti: Okay.

9:15KT: We have a grieving wife, a widower in this short, and she's appealing to the imam and the imam is immovable, perhaps stubborn, definitely resistant to her requests. So, at the core of The Fall, without spoiling it in any way, is the intersection of religion, the convenience of abiding by particular scripture, and even be challenged by other scripture that opposes particular scripture, and being, essentially it's talking about Like as an Imam, the people that you're supposed to look out for, but also trying to uphold your status and therefore not helping them to the extent that you could be helping

10:02Oti: Oh, so it's not more, when I heard The Fall, I thought it would be something like a fall from grace when you started describing it.

10:09KT: Perhaps, yes.

10:10Oti: Okay. There's nothing better when you're faced with, religion or something you're brought up in and having to deal with the ramifications or trying to navigate within the boundaries of what's allowed. Yeah. You know, so it sounds interesting. I'm definitely eager. I just know that you know what I say a lot. I've got my bias and anytime that I see anything religious that doesn't, that sort of shifts to pull people down rather than try and help them regardless of the situation. I just don't vibe for it. And I think that's what one of the visceral reactions I had when I watched The Two Popes and you loved it so much.

10:51Oti: And I just I just couldn't I couldn't get outside of myself to enjoy the movie for what it was

10:56KT: But you're a residential

10:58Oti: I know I know

10:59KT: Put a Mormon film on and then we'll start talking.

11:04Oti: Well, I I just want to cover the bottom, Under the Banner of Heaven, so we get to those panties. Oh,

11:10KT: That's the wrong Captain America, Oti. but you're absolutely right. summarising The Fall, it's like, if, if religion and faith exist to help the people, but it's not helping the people because there is a status to the faith, then what good does it serve?

11:30Oti: Yeah, I think one of the things that I'd hope the short covers is, a resolution and I hope it does have that

11:37KT: Um,

11:39Oti: because a lot of the times when we get this sort of stuff, it's also, it's always just left up in the air. And I remember us covering a lot of the movies, especially when it covers anything religious or anything has to do with a cultural background where we can air out all the issues that we see within our community or within. our cultural religion and just leave it there. So my hope is that we get some semblance of, hey, we can do ABC.

12:08KT: Um, it's yeah. So in, in regards to this short, it's a very heavy, heavy subject matter. It's a grappling with. You know, an ancient faith, and I just don't feel like it was the best vessel in a short film. It felt like it was a couple of scenes of a feature film. You see what I'm saying?

12:29Oti: Oh, well, religion is such a mammoth thing to cover in the short. And I think there's a lot of nuance there. So I'd be very interested to see how this is laid out. And

12:42KT: Rest in Piece was very serious, but it was focusing on the experience of the protagonist. The Fall kind of becomes a vessel, an open dialogue of challenging, you know, personal growth versus faith. So because it, yeah, because it's more of a commentary to achieve that in a short, I don't necessarily think it can be done in that sort of format, but that might just be my personal preference.

13:10Oti: Alright, fair points, fair

13:11KT: But there was some great, there was some great points that were raised. Absolutely. It was

13:18Oti: how, how was the cinematography?

13:20KT: It was gorgeous. The directing was earnest, there was a lot of great points that were brought up, but it was kind of the first session of many, if that makes sense.

13:30Oti: Makes perfect sense.

13:32KT: But again, I'm all for talanoas in the fale. Just make sure you take your shoes off before you come inside. Um, the last short before the feature film on the Friday was called Yeh, Baba!

13:44Oti: Yeh, Baba!

13:46KT: This is coming out of the US it's an Egyptian film from Palestinian director Mousa Hussein Kraish, who also is an actor who also was the Jinn on American Gods.

13:59Oti: What? Oh, the one that Salim was chasing after. Yeah.

14:08KT: I also want to lay some love and splooshies to the director, the team and the curators at SWANA Film Festival, because it is absolutely astonishing. skill to distill the talent and what's available and present it in a film festival sort of format. And out of the three shorts, this was the light one. It was the funny one. It got, it got everyone, you know, laughing and smiling and you know, I don't want to spoil it because I want you friends and lovers as well as Oti. To experience this short, if we can ever, if it's available in some sort of format. but it's really funny because it plays on, I guess the expect, not, not necessarily expectation, but you would assume that someone of an older generation, perhaps our parents age, for example, would be very conservative.

15:07KT: Perhaps even homophobic or any other sort of phobic and it kind of turns it on its head where it's like so embracing of the queer community. It's just like, and I know this makes no sense at all without even explaining anything, but it really. You know, for a lot of us, we do have older sort of relatives, whether it's parents or otherwise, um, where we do have these moments of levity, you know, whether it's about the queer community or whether it's about anything that you wouldn't necessarily expect to have that layer of progression. it was really a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it.

15:45Oti: Nice. When I heard Yeh, Baba! I just loosely translated it to yes, father.

15:49KT: yes, father. Yeah.

15:51Oti: Right?

15:51KT: You are a man of the world,

15:53Oti: Uh huh.

15:56KT: Uh huh. I literally can't say anything else without, getting you friends and lovers to watch it. But, um, it was definitely a nice sort of palette cleanser for the film, the feature film of Friday for the SWANA Film Festival.

16:10Oti: so just to be clear, the order in which you've covered these, uh, this is the exact same order you watch them in. Correct. Oh, okay. Okay. So you went from heavy, heavy to something a bit more, uh, like a palate cleanser, like you said.

16:23KT: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. and then for the opening night of the SWANA Film Festival, we had Baghdad in My Shadow. This is from an Iraqi Swiss director named Samir, who also wrote the film. it's an Iraqi film. Also in regards to writers, we have Furat al Jamil. In way of cast, we have Haytham Abdulrazaq, Zahraa Ghandour, as well as Waseem Abbas, who was also at the opening night.

16:51Oti: Okay!

16:53KT: Yeah.

16:53Oti: Look at you rubbing shoulders, eh?

16:55KT: Oh, as far as I could, many rows back, but absolutely.

16:59Oti: Um,

17:00KT: so this feature film also, you know, friends and lovers as learned as we are, I definitely do have my blind spots and this was my first Iraqi film that I've ever watched.

17:12Oti: Alright.

17:13KT: Um, and I'm just, I'm so glad that I, you know, that in this film festival, I was able to experience. It's, you know, so many different forms of filmmaking and storytelling to, to, I don't know, wash out the bad taste of Western sort of portrayals or perceptions, you know? so this film focuses on actually a couple of characters, and it speaks to many different themes. Oti, just like I said, with the Pasifika Film Festival with Waikiki, I want you to watch this film and I want to do a full review. On this

17:51Oti: whoa

17:52KT: Yes, there's lots of moments of levity, there's themes of the progression and the exploration of radicalization of a faith. There's also, safety of women, independence of women in this film, um, as well as what it means to carry on culture, carry on religion

18:17Oti: All right, so, so this was a short as well?

18:19KT: This was a feature film.

18:20Oti: Ah, alright. Makes sense. I was like, oh, they covered a lot.

18:26KT: Baghdad in My Shadow is a multi faceted offering of straightforward Iraqi storytelling, brilliant use of archival footage and universal themes of faith, women and community.

18:38Oti: Nice.

18:39KT: Something that I really appreciated and I guess as time will go on, I don't know if this is Iraqi storytelling. or if this is specific to the film, but there was, it was very straightforward. Like the dialogue was very straightforward and I really appreciated it.

18:57Oti: Um, straightforward as in how? When I hear straightforward, I'm just picturing Jason Statham, maybe that's not, that's not doing it

19:05KT: it could be, it could be, you never know. so I guess from this point of view, there was an element of like, uh, I guess you could say law enforcement, of authorities. Of like a interrogation room type thing. So that was part of the storytelling of the film. and you know, obviously we're uncovering mysteries, you know, not necessarily who done it, but we're trying to recount the events of what led up to a potential murder. Right? And you, you just know, and I don't even know if it's a Western thing, but you just know things that would take like, I don't know, four back and forth scenes.

19:45KT: They literally just said that shit. And then we can move on. Let's just, let's just say it for what it is. And let's move on.

19:54Oti: There was something we were watching recently and we were getting very frustrated at how it tried not to say exactly what the scene wanted or what the scene required and they kept on meandering around that felt quite blatantly as if they want to stretch it out for time. Yeah. I'm glad and I'll be here to start anything that gets to the point. Yeah. And doesn't beat around the bush.

20:19KT: Yeah. I really appreciated it.

20:21Oti: We're here for, I came to do a job. I did the job.

20:25KT: Yeah. I feel like I'm moving in different places from teenage KT watching Bollywood films with dramatic reveals to Iraqi films in my thirties where it's just like, yeah, they fucking did it.

20:42Oti: Nice.

20:43KT: I'm just like, this is refreshing. This is great. also the reason why I say there's a brilliant use of archival footage as well as ancillary like sort of context is because And, and, you know, it might just, it might've been a conscious decision. It might've just been, uh, you know, because you're about it, that's how you write the story. but it really helped me to fill in the gaps and understand, at least in a, in a minute way to carry through the vessel of the film, of Iraqi culture.

21:13Oti: Okay, that's good.

21:14KT: Yeah, they, there was, there was a singer that they would have throughout the film like footage of her singing and you can tell even without knowing that she was like a household name, you know, even the way that they would convey sort of news reports or particular events at the time, they would use archival footage for that as well. So, you know, I'm not a fan of the word authenticity, but you could tell that they were layering it in a way that, you know, it just felt right.

21:42Oti: Sounds like they took great care and attention to detail to, to lay this out. Yeah. Is that fair to say?

21:49KT: Sounds like I would also say that the filmmaking, like, like I said, in She Said, the filmmaking was handled with care. I'm not going to go into detail, but I will say. Just the reference of, I would give a trigger warning, there are graphic scenes of violence towards gay and female characters in this film. this Baghdad in My Shadow, the title of it is exactly reflective of the beauty, the poetry, but also the devastation of the characters of the arc of the community in this film. It also offered It also offered multiple avenues. Like it was absolutely a tasting platter for Iraqi cinema for me.

22:30Oti: Nice. A great gateway then.

22:32KT: Yeah, because I, I guess in the description I was like, okay, this is a queer story, but it was so much more than that.

22:38Oti: Love to hear it.

22:39KT: Yeah, absolutely. Um, I, I guess, um, what I want to finish off with, um, obviously there's a lot to talk about and friends and lovers when we can get Oti and I will watch it again. Um, when we can get a full review, we will go into more detail, but I do have, I did make notes by the way, um, but we'll keep that for when we do the full review. But one of my themes is. Problematic white people be problematic.

23:09Oti: I think the mere fact the movie is just called Baghdad in My Shadow. I expected as much man.

23:16KT: It could have been called anything and you'd still say you expect it

23:18Oti: True.

23:21KT: Like literally get your bingo card out. There's a white character that says you don't look Iraqi.

23:27Oti: Oh, one of those gems, eh?

23:28KT: Maybe the same character explains things in an exhibition to the Iraqi character.

23:35Oti: Wow. All right. Sounds like we're in for a treat.

23:38KT: I have one

23:38Oti: get to see this?

23:40KT: more. There's another white character that says, marry me and all your problems go away.

23:44Oti: Oof,

23:45KT: Boo! Oh man, Hugh Grant's a plenty, Oti.

23:51Oti: Wow.

23:52KT: Um, but just summarizing, um, Baghdad in My Shadow, it's absolutely what a film should be to those that where it will hit differently to those that are new to Iraqi cinema and just be able to give you enough context. But I'm absolutely, I need to go away and do some research. Cause there was some comments or commentary that was made. And I was like, I don't understand it, but this film has given me enough to understand it for this film. A bit of extra reading. Um, hold on to your hats, friends and lovers, cause we are diving into the Fantastic Film Festival Australia.

24:32KT: We went to go and watch Quantum Cowboys.

24:36Oti: We sure did.

24:37KT: I'm tagging you in brother.

24:40Oti: Don't do this, brother.

24:43KT: So again, this was part of the Fantastic Film Festival Australia. we watched Quantum Cowboys. Infinity Pool was also a part of the screenings, um, for this festival. We will have, our full review episode coming out soon. Friends and lovers for Infinity Pool. Just quickly, we have director Geoff Marslett, who was also a writer with Howe Gelb. I came into consciousness of Quantum Cowboys because of Kiowa Gordon, who is also an executive producer. also in way of cast, Lily Gladstone, John Way, David Arquette, as well as Uncle Brownie in Rez Dogs. We have Gary Farmer.

25:22Oti: Woo hoo! Hehehehe!

25:25KT: All right, Oti, kick us off, cowboy.

25:28Oti: I did not know anything about this movie going in. I, I know you sent me some descriptions, which I didn't read. Wow.

25:38KT: This is my favorite timeline, by the way.

25:41Oti: I'm just being honest. So when the movie started, I won't lie. I found it initially disorienting with its eclectic visuals. But it grew on me, you know, which led to a captivating experience, you know, a multiverse Western that offers a thought-provoking cosmic adventure through time and space. I loved it at the end of it. I think it was such a unique way of storytelling that I have not. seen before. You know, when you get out of the cinema and I think I had this experience when I left watching, um, Nope, where you feel like, what the hell did I just watch?

26:15Oti: it was something completely. Outside of my imagination of what this movie would be, that it reset everything, any expectation I had of the movie. And from a storytelling perspective, I think it was just the brilliantness of it all. I was, I was taken aback and it's definitely a recommend for me. It's one of the best things that I've seen this year. Yeah, fucking ha.

26:42KT: ha.

26:42Oti: It will change your perception of what a movie is and how mixed media can be used to elevate cinematography. It shouldn't be contained in a box because there's, you can express yourself in different ways that you can show stories and timelines in different ways and different media that it just works.

26:58KT: Do they speak cinematic range in what?

27:02Oti: They fucking do! Sorry, I just dumped my inner Yellowstone in there. you ruined it. Rikki.

27:09KT: ruined it. ruined it, Oti. They call that self colonization.

27:15Oti: Uh huh. We're all too well acquainted with that shit.

27:20KT: Un fucking fortunately. Let's go to another timeline, I say. Hello!

27:26Oti: Well, are you going to be in Woman King now?

27:30KT: Could you be any more You know, what's so much fun about these two film festivals is, you know, as much as we love and we've been given opportunities from a PR perspective to go to screenings, to watch screeners, you know, or even just our sort of casual viewing exactly what you're saying. There's an, there's an. There's a sort of, a realm that we exist in where as much as creative as a storytelling can be as, as, as visceral as the visuals can be, it's all kind of in the same sort of part and parcel, right? However, this weekend presented to us the possibility and I guess the unending breadth of what is possible in these multimedia formats.

28:20Oti: It truly is, man. Like, I, I cannot, like, there's, there's, there's an expectation of every movie that you go in that's going to be shot in a certain way. It's going to apply certain aspects that you're used to when watching a movie or even just basic storytelling at its core. And when it's flipped on its head and you end up with Quantum Cowboys. It's true to its name because at first I thought we were in the wrong cinema. I really did. I was like, are you sure we're in the right cinema? What is this? But I quickly came to love, the acting and how things are shot.

28:56Oti: You'd think at first you'd think it's quacky just because of,

29:01KT: for the sake of being nefarious. Yeah.

29:03Oti: as, as the story goes on, you're completely drawn into this.

29:08KT: Oh, absolutely.

29:09Oti: Each different type of photography or shooting, you get to, to understand how everything overlays. And it sets up this tapestry of, of just, of interconnectedness, um, that I thought was brilliantly done. You know, I've lorded about Loki and how he tackled, um, time and space.

29:32KT: Yeah.

29:33Oti: What can I say about Quantum Cowboys, man? Like it's, it took it to a level I didn't even think there was.

29:39KT: Oh, absolutely. I now understand what Nicole Kidman was saying about the cinema.

29:44Oti: The theatre! No,

29:47KT: No, but it's like, if we were to just randomly, casually put this on at home, I don't think we would have given it the same sort of breadth that we gave in putting our pants on, going to the cinema, making an actual event of it.

30:02Oti: Yeah. Pants off Oti does not watch this, you

30:05KT: Oti is most welcome in KT's eyes.

30:08Oti: It's

30:09KT: it, whether your pants are on at the start, they won't be at the end

30:14Oti: But it is true. If I stumbled across this on streaming, I probably don't even give it a second look. Um, but as things aligned. I just, I'm so glad that I happened to watch this movie and really just be in a space where I can appreciate it for what it is and try and

30:33KT: Yeah, the Nicole Kidman cinema.

30:35Oti: You said it.

30:36KT: The textured layers in the visuals matched the complex and straight through narrative that grounded the experience of creating and consolidating memories. You know, um, Charlie Brooker at the time of Death to 2020 onwards, he talked about not being sure of, you know, what a new season of Black Mirror would look like because the world is. So fucked up right now, you know, um, and then they, I guess also ushered in the format of Death to 2020 and so on. However, if the next season, which is very soon of Black Mirror, isn't to the caliber of Quantum Cowboys, I don't want it.

31:19Oti: I don't need it.

31:21KT: It was like a mix of like Black Mirror and also Cloud Atlas, this film, but like in a way, like, so essentially Friends and Lovers, without spoiling this film, Quantum Cowboys talks about the creation and consolidation of memories. And how they are all pieced together and made sense of through multiple timelines.

31:46KT: So exactly what Oti is saying, there was so much mixed multimedia in this film. It wasn't just one type of animation. There was so many different, there was so much texture to this film. And you know, it's so interesting in, you know, personally for me, I am, like I've said, I'm a very literal person. So usually Things that are sort of experimental are a bit harder for me to latch on to. But it was, like, there was an establishing point of the reason why it was all, you know, a happy clusterfuck of sunshine.

32:22Oti: Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. True. I wouldn't put it better myself.

32:28KT: I would just say friends and lovers, you know, it's, it's been doing the circuits for film festivals. Um, but if you do happen, um, to have the opportunity to watch Quantum Cowboys, please do, whether you're wearing pants is none of my business, but I would strongly recommend in every timeline. That you get a snack and a beverage and you watch this moving on. We have the not closing night, but the last day of the SWANA Film Festival. Um, this is a, let me attempt, Oti, uh, T'embrasser sur le miel.

33:07Oti: Oh, I think you nailed it.

33:08KT: Thank you. Um, in French, uh, otherwise, Kissing You On The Honey. Um, this is a Syrian film by director Khalil Cherti. This is my second favorite short of the film festival.

33:21Oti: All right, tell me more.

33:22KT: So this was live action as opposed to the claymation, um, Rest in Piece that I really, really loved. This talks about, again, you know, the, the, the visual in real time destruction of war, the consequences, um, as well, and what it does, and this is the best way I think, especially in a short film sort of format, it explores the after effects, it explores the impacts through the lens of two characters.

33:55Oti: Oh.

33:56KT: So, um, one character, he, um, he's, he's alone, and, you know, the other character, she's also alone, and they find, you know, companionship through sending tapes, they tape each other, and they send it to each other.

34:13KT: There are some very, you know, what, what I love so much about this short was the tonality of the short film. It was able to hit the highs, and I guess, sort of suspended despair to be able to enjoy the moment. to the lows of unflinching vulnerability. And it does it more than once in being able to explore it. Um, there's also, there's also a very funny, um, I guess you could call it like a sexting sort of, um, situation.

34:47Oti: Sexting or sexting?

34:49KT: You can be both of mine. Give me my sex tang, put it tang. But it's kind of like they kind of play it like a sports commentary. Um, so essentially, Oti, is what I'm saying, is stretch and bend over. Cause we're going to get creative.

35:04Oti: Because I'm kissing you on the honey. Is that what it is? Alright. Absolutely. Nice.

35:09KT: Um, but there's all of the best parts and the worst parts of the human experience are tempered by the tonality in this short film. Like it really rides a high. And then it goes to the most devastating part of the short. Um, and I personally, for me, I want to be able to see real guttural sort of storytelling, um, but also knowing that it's done in a way of care and it's done to a way of purpose, you know, it's not just making us sad to be sad.

35:46Oti: And this met that criteria.

35:48KT: Absolutely.

35:49Oti: Fair enough, man. Sounds like it was interesting. Sounds good. Um, you know, we love a good guttural story that doesn't shy away from knocking us out with the truth bombs where it's so needed.

36:02KT: I feel like true joy doesn't

36:06Oti: Because that's just life, isn't it?

36:08KT: Damn dog, how did you become the saddest part of this? All right, well, let's finish off friends and lovers. This is the last, and it is a feature film of the SWANA Film Festival. It's called Miguel's War. it's set in Lebanon as well as Spain. and it is the director Eliane Raheb in regards to not necessarily cast. but it does focus on Miguel Jleilaty. this is a two-for-one documentary where we actively are digging into the centre of Miguel and the life he has crafted for himself.

36:44Oti: Okay. A two-for-one documentary in what way?

36:47KT: In the fact that it's not just a package tied into a bow documentary, we are actively making the documentary while the documentary Yeah. So, Miguel, there's, there's so much, and, you know, even the title of this documentary on Miguel's War, a lot of it talks about his upbringing and, you know, we always love talking about upbringings and the For Your Reference podcast. and a lot of it has to do with his sexuality. A lot of it has to do with shame around his sexuality. Whether it's self imposed, whether it's forced from his parents because it's not acceptable and not necessarily pray the gay away, but you know, there's a lot that he's battling, right? And it was very interesting.

37:34KT: It was very interesting to watch this documentary because right from the start, the footage of Miguel is not, it's, it's not positive. Like he's being a snarky fucking bitch. Like he's being, but even while we were watching this. I was saying to myself, we're going to end up loving this guy, aren't we, right? So it's, I think it's that sort of porcupine effect of like, let me show you the ugliest, you know, most repulsive side of me. And if you stick around, I guess maybe we can get to know each other, you know?

38:07KT: Um, it was interesting in the sense that again, friends and lovers, I definitely need to do, um, a bit more research. However, the documentary did very well in the start where it had like a classroom scene and it talked about, you know, the prejudices and the. The sort of racism and the culture sort of wars that were going on, um, whether it was the attitudes towards, you know, Lebanese people might have towards Syrians or Palestinians, for example, and it was interesting to explore from that point of view.

38:43Oti: Yeah, I can see that.

38:45KT: Um, it's interesting and there's definitely parts of the documentary, um, that are worth to watch without it being discussed in a sort of non spoiler review sort of format. But definitely anyone watching this would be frustrated with Miguel because it gets to a point where you don't even know if what he's saying is the truth.

39:08Oti: Oh, so he's really at war.

39:10KT: He's really at war. He's, it feels like he's at war with you, but really he's at war with himself. And there are certain things very hard to talk about, even very for me, very hard to watch sort of moments in the documentary where you even question, wait, he lied about this. Is this even true? Sort of thing. But what I would also say, if I could extend some grace. You know, the best sort of documentaries, uh, especially about, you know, someone's life is allowing full access to yourself, right? And I think, I think in this sort of readily online accessible sort of age, we kind of take for granted how vulnerable it is to allow yourself to be documented in a documentary sort of format.

39:57KT: And in that sense, I get it like, you know, friends and lovers, unless I'm projecting, unless it's for your projection, you know, there are many things on this podcast that I'm very open to talk about, but there are some things that I, I, it might be okay for me to talk about, but it's just not something that I am willing to share, unless it's relevant, you know? So in that point of view, I might start making up shit. It's like making up stories because it's none of your business. So the, when I say it's a two-for-one documentary in those moments where I guess Miguel is playing games or he's choosing not to be honest, Eliane, the director, she, she's fucking great.

40:40KT: Like the skill of being a documentarian filmmaker is something that I couldn't do because she was nudging him. She was like, no, you told me you did this. You sent me a text and you told me you did this. Now you're saying you did it. Like I couldn't do that, but I also wanted to know the truth as well.

40:56Oti: Nice. Seems like he, we definitely go through, a journey in Miguel, coming to either love him or understanding him because at the end of the day, it's his journey. He's allowed to be however, and it takes courage to open yourself up like that.

41:13Oti: And, you know, lies and all. Yeah. As I know, we're all imperfect and we're all on a journey, you know, on a path and have our little battles and hopefully he ends up winning the war.

41:24KT: Well, I hope I have your love and grace in every timeline, Oti. Woo hoo hoo. Thank you, friends and lovers, for joining us another week in the For Your Reference household. it's been nice. How's your experience been?

41:38Oti: Good. going to the festival and watching Quantum Cowboys really was just really fun for me. we watched some really ridiculous trailers that I want to just delve head in. I'll be looking for those movies. Uh, but wow, I had fun. I had fun.

41:55KT: I enjoyed it. I, I feel like, if there is ever a time to open yourself up to whether it's a new sort of cinema or whether it's, um, you know, different types of storytelling, film festivals are absolutely the place to do it. If you've seen any of these films or if you would like to further discuss on Twitter and Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod.

42:17KT: We're also on Kissing You on the Oti Honey podcast. If you'd like to leave a rating and review, and we'll see you guys next week.

42:24Oti: hello@fyrpodcast.com. See ya! Bye!