Shrek – Ogre habits die hard

Full transcript of Shrek – Ogre habits die hard.

0:00KT: Good day. Welcome. Keep your shoes at the door. Hopefully, everyone is doing fine in the climate.

0:06Oti: Mhmm.

0:08KT: Keep well. Stay well. Stay healthy. If you're listening in linear time, there's a lot going on in the world. But, you know, a lot goes on in the world as it goes. So we love you guys. And we are starting off with your phrase or mine.

0:23Oti: Woo hoo. It's my turn this time. Right?

0:26KT: It is right around here.

0:29Oti: Alright. Still, taking you back to the motherland with a bloody beautiful Burundi proverb. Oh, look at you. Don't tell any more fairy tales when the child has gone to sleep.

0:44KT: Well, if the child is asleep, no one is there that will believe it, so there's no point.

0:44Oti: Yeah. More or less.

0:44KT: I think there's a Tongan ancestry in Gondwanaland.

0:44Oti: Yeah. There's some crossover, man.

0:44KT: Well, if we're all going into lockdown, we are going to start a history podcast, and you bet for goddamn sure Gondwanaland is going to be at the epicenter. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and lovers. Welcome back to For Your Reference. You got your host, KT. And Oti. And grab your most decorative boulders.

1:44KT: But make sure you leave your sense of self at the door because today, we are covering the 2001 warm, fuzzy, and all the feels Shrek.

1:55Oti: Shrek. Shrek. Shrek.

1:58KT: You know what, Oti? It's nice. You know, there's there's there's a lot of episodes where we talk about and we tackle some really dark themes, but sometimes it's nice just to have a fun, feel good movie.

2:14Oti: It is. And there are some episodes we've done that we we it was so heavy and listening back to them, it just wasn't right and we're like, yeah, we're not releasing this. And So it's definitely good doing a light one this time.

2:24KT: Well well, that's where our Patreon comes in definitely because we will never shy away from our most beloved friends and lovers. But it's good. It's great. You know, there are times where we tackle more nuanced films, films that we need to unpack, and it takes a lot of layers.

2:43Oti: And we analyze it. Oh, just like an onion.

2:46KT: Oh, is that a reference? Look. UNC. Straight out of the gate. But, you know, sometimes it's like not every film has to move you. Not every film has to change your life. It's good to have watchable films or just good films. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess keep that in mind when we get to our Christmas special and we start rating shit and people have many qualm. Much qualm, many qualm. Many qualms. Well, it's our fucking podcast. So we qualm everywhere we like to in all of the places. So again, it came out in 2001.

3:23KT: It was loosely based on a book of the same name Oti.

3:26Oti: Oh, yeah? It's all original.

3:29KT: No. Well, it's also talking about fairytale. So in that case, no. But it was based on a book by William Steig and oh god. You did if you thought Shrek looked bad in the movies, have a look at the book cover. Wow. That that is not even a no go that a mother could love. I I am saying it here on this podcast. We have directors Andrew Adamson and Vicky Jenson. We already mentioned William, and then we also have a credited writer as Ted Elliott. In regards to the budget, it was $60,000,000. That's

4:09KT: that's quite amazing. If you think about how groundbreaking the animation was.

4:13Oti: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure they made more than that.

4:16KT: Yeah. But it was one of the first sort of non two d animation films. Right? So it was interesting. It was very interesting. The budget was 60,000,000. The cumulative worldwide gross Oti.

4:31Oti: Hit me. Hit me.

4:35KT: I will. But it'll it'll be pleasurable. I'm just gonna warn you. $484,400,000.

4:41Oti: Yikes.

4:43KT: That's a lot of money. That's enough to slap your mama and disappear. I'm telling you. Wow. I think the voice acting was impeccable. I guess just to lay our respects to Chris Farley because he did pretty much record the whole film but I guess there was a decision after he passed away to re voice it. Yeah. So just to lay our respects there but in regards to the released film, we have Mike Myers, Eddie Murphy and also Cameron Diaz. It's quite a lot. It's quite a lot going on Oti. Yeah.

5:19KT: So let's do what we always do around here and get into our first impressions Oti. If you're new to this podcast, we take kindly to your kind around here. And if you've listened quite a few, if you listen to all of our episodes, we're a fucking roller coaster, aren't we? But essentially, first impressions is essentially just to give you a bit of a tasting of the frame of reference that we come from. Just so when we're talking about the film, it kind of helps understand,

5:55KT: you know, what was Where we're coming from as well. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much. So Oti, Shrek 2001, did you love the film? Did you get to see it? How many times have you seen it? And we just watched it just now, really.

6:10Oti: Yeah. When it came out, we didn't go to the cinema to watch this, but we did get it. We did rent the tape for it.

6:17KT: Tape, kids. Look it up.

6:21Oti: But, wow, it it was amazing. I think I watched it the next day after watching the first time. It was so it was so fresh and hilarious, and I loved every minute of it. Like, the score as well, like, I sang along to every single song in this.

6:40KT: Oh, definitely. And we will definitely go through the soundtrack, which isn't something we do by default. I guess it when it stars within us, that's when we bring it up. Listen to our Bad Boys episode, primo stuff. But yeah, we'll definitely go through the soundtrack. When Shrek came out, I was still in primary school. Yep. Which I know a majority of our listeners are from Morocco. Hopefully you guys are staying safe as well. What is that? Is that like middle school, elementary?

7:17Oti: I don't know. I don't know their system. It's all jumbled or wacky.

7:17KT: And that's why you're the Watson.

7:25KT: Elementary elementary, dear Oti. Elementary.

7:29Oti: I'm happy to be Lucy Liu every day, any day, mate.

7:29KT: She's the Watson?

7:29Oti: Yeah. Elementary. Elementary.

7:29KT: I thought the skinny, pacey Englishman was Watson.

7:29Oti: No. He's Sherlock.

7:41KT: Oh my bloody hell. We need to advance, guys. If Lucy Liu can't be the Sherlock, this is not a world I wanna be in.

7:50Oti: Right? I can't fault that. Lucy Liu can be anything she wants to be. Exactly.

7:57KT: But yes, I I think I was pretty much the age bracket of when Shrek came out because you have, you know, the Disney sort of classics, the two d sort of cartoons that you grow up with, like Lion King, cutely enough, we have an episode. Mulan, we're not sure if Mulan's going to be released in Australia, but there is the Disney cartoon. But, you know, there's there's cartoons that you grow up watching. Usually, they're Disney sort of movies that you watch.

8:27KT: But then you get to an age where you've kind of outgrown that. So there's like a I guess it's kind of preteen, prepubescent sort of animation gap in the market. Yeah. And I think that's where Shrek fits very nicely. I fucking love Shrek. And I I say it as a singular. I don't care for the rest of the series and we're definitely not gonna cover the rest of the series. If your if if if your love language is Shrek happily ever after, well, sorry, fam. We're not covering it, blood.

9:03Oti: But have you watched them at least?

9:05KT: I've I think I've I've definitely watched two. I think I've watched three, but that's enough. Like, that's enough. But in any case, I really enjoyed and I really loved watching Shrek. Our school was doing a Shrek play.

9:22Oti: Oh my god. Did you guys even study?

9:26KT: Yeah. We did.

9:29Oti: It's a it's a Don't tell me also watched Shrek to prepare.

9:33KT: It's like a study life balance, dude.

9:36Oti: Study life balance. Oh my god. Sorry. Almost choked myself there.

9:45KT: Yeah. Because you're playing yourself. If if you guys are new to this podcast, Oti is incredulous at the thought of school students being allowed to watch movies during class time.

9:56Oti: Because I saw learning. If it's not on a book, it's it's he didn't fucking learning me. At least my plan.

10:07KT: So it's quite clear that o I have feelings. Oti needs a hug essentially.

10:15Oti: Everyone has to go through what I went through. Hey.

10:20KT: Mama will show you all of the love, but you need to get your hug somewhere else. Are you done are you done, Zach? See what happens? We're trying to talk about my childhood and then turns into mummy I have tools and I can't even get a hug. Leave out donkey in this. Damn, dog. Are you pertinent?

10:39Oti: Always pertinent.

10:44KT: But I really enjoyed Shrek growing up. I always enjoyed it. This isn't necessarily my first impressions, but it's more just an observation. Shrek has kind of been the mecca of perverted sort of memes.

11:00Oti: Oh yeah. Shrek is love. Yeah. Shrek is life.

11:04KT: And if you're not careful, we will talk about that specifically for the whole episode. But we're classy with the Y sucking off the L. What reference is that Oti?

11:04Oti: South Park.

11:04KT: It is a South Park reference. Do you think we'll ever cover South Park?

11:23Oti: Maybe not for a while. It's a big beast. It's a big beast, we need to know exactly how we're going to tackle it. It's a Cartman chili that we're not ready to pallet yet.

11:34KT: But going back to Shrek, it wasn't I enjoyed it. And even just watching it now, I was thrilled. Yeah. Through and through all the way. Let's let's dive into the characters that we have in this film. Obviously, we are going to start with Shrek Oti.

11:55Oti: Mhmm. I liked him. I like Mike Myers, mate. Yeah. Back then, he was pretty much the in thing. He was everywhere. He was everywhere. You know, he had a stellar cast in this, and how he was advertised at least in Kenya, man. He was like everywhere, every single place he could go. So when you go into this, you're expecting stellar performances in which Mike Myers really did an amazing job. Mhmm. And then you get to see how he bounces off, especially with Donkey. Yeah. Things dreams are made of really. But you gotta have friends.

12:36Oti: Yeah. And it's just so amazing that he's got all this sort of issues with him as well. Like, he he sees himself as ugly and just he wants to be alone and all the like being all miserable, you know, just to keep everyone at bay so that he doesn't get hurt or to at least open himself up to certain

12:58KT: I am breaking the glass on my emergency hand clapping gestures. Can we talk about the character development on Shrek? That is how it's fucking done. So much character development in with a lot of the characters, but specifically with Shrek.

13:18Oti: Well, I'm gonna say this though. Watching it just now, be be like, the last time I watched it, I was like, I think whatever when it came out And just rewatching it now, it wasn't as good as I remembered.

13:18KT: Oh, fuck off.

13:18Oti: Like, I felt a lot of eye roll y moments and don't punch me.

13:43KT: Excuse me. Excuse me, friends and lovers. This is also coming from the same fella that loves to watch, like, Vampire's Gate. What's it called? Stop pretending.

13:54Oti: Vampire Diaries.

13:56KT: Yeah. I was getting an anime confused. But Oti likes watching that and Pretty Little Liars and that sort of shit. And you're saying that there are eye rolling moments in Shrek?

14:09Oti: Me.

14:10KT: Yes. This is not new information. You've shared it on the podcast.

14:10Oti: I have. I watched them. I'm I'm not ashamed of that.

14:19KT: A lot of people watch But you should be. Not because it's considered leaning towards the female demographic, just because it looks like garbage.

14:28Oti: No. Oti is a sponge. You know, I try and absorb everything.

14:32KT: She's

14:35Oti: juicy. And and and and, you know, Shrek is one of the things that I feel like rewatching it now as an adult, as a proper proper grown ass adult. Is that questionable?

14:52KT: Many,

14:52Oti: many questionable qualms. I feel like it's it's it's not as good as I remember or at least I thought it was.

14:52KT: Oh, mate. I was having the time of my life.

14:52Oti: It all felt too trivial at times. And granted, it's a bloody cartoon animation, whatever you wanna call it. But I like it. It was alright at the end of it, like, just watching it. It's probably gonna affect my rating if I was to give it a rating. It would affect what I thought it was before watch rewatching it. Okay. So it's

15:26Oti: so I have definitely some qualms in this. Like, the story is a bit too bland and predictable, and granted maybe that's for the kids or whatever demographic they are targeting at the moment or the time.

15:36KT: Put your kids to bed because Oti Cal is on the prowl right now. Not in a sexual way. I just meant like being mean to kids in kids movies. Seriously? We've watched no. Like even just recently, we've watched a lot of shit that is contrived, that is up its own fucking ass and they really just missed the executing points of just having two main characters and executing a cohesive story. And I feel like in this day and age, we take that shit for granted,

16:11KT: right? A lot of it is puffed up in salaciousness that never really comes into fruition. So yes, I am bringing my cojones to Shrek and I will defend it till the end of time, sir. Because really it did what it needed to do. You can have your qualms.

16:11Oti: Does it stand the test of time though?

16:11KT: I had a good time. I was really enjoying it. The soundtrack carried it. The fact that they just they they focus on the dynamic of Shrek and Donkey was enough. Eddie Murphy, are you kidding me? You know what? Donkey Donkey Mite is my name and fucking up Boulders is my motherfucking game. Are you kidding me, idiot?

16:48Oti: You know what? You know what I think you liked it so much? That's because of the dynamism between Donkey and Shrek right after we watched Queen and Slim, something that we couldn't really get on board with. Yikes. I wasn't sure it was going to seep into any of our episodes.

17:14KT: This will make no sense. If someone comes along to our podcast and they just happen to listen to Shrek, do you wanna burden them with our feelings of Queen and Slim? Not even. Not even. This is a fun live episode that we, you know, I just feel like Is it? You need to tell Oti Tarantino. Was gonna say Torino.

17:32Oti: Oh, Oti Torino. Yeah.

17:36KT: Jesus. Well, you're an angry old white man right now. You need to settle down. Get off your own porch, sir. Mhmm. Jesus. Get off my property. And if you if you couldn't tell by now, yes, it is suitable for kids, this film, but we aren't. And if you didn't check the explicit tag, then that's on you friends and lovers.

17:36Oti: But he has very little stuff for adults though.

17:36KT: No. Okay. You're dead wrong on this. Like, you're actually dead wrong on this. Let's paint a picture. Right? So we have the

18:10KT: baby sort of films that are just for, like, five and six year olds. Frozen? Yeah, man? No. What example would you go with? Can I can I continue, sir? Continue. Okay. So you have films that are for the younger kids that you're just it's literally just for the kids. And if you're a parent, you're just gonna be sitting there. Oti's done that with all of his million kids around the world that no one knows about. Right?

18:41Oti: Then Yep.

18:42KT: Yes. A bit too much so. That's why everyone's closing their doors to you. So, and then you have films where it's kind of for an older sort of audience, but there's layers to it. Right? There's the kids enjoying this angry ogre getting angry at a donkey and all of these fairytale sort of characters.

19:04KT: But then what you also have are moments that are just for the adults. Right? The first time they see Lord Farquaad and we need to come to his name, but we'll come to that in a second. The first time they seen Lord Farquaad's, like, castle, Shrek's like, yeah, he's compensating for something. You know what I mean? Like, obviously, kids don't know what that is. Just like Quagmire from Family Guy, the kids don't know what we're talking about. I'm

19:30KT: doing the gesture. You need to watch Family Guy. It does hit and miss but it's quite good from time to time. No. But there are there are things that you can enjoy. Even when they get to the castle later on in the film, he says, sure, it's great but look at the location. Like there there are are messages there that have nothing to do with what would resonate with a kid.

19:54Oti: Yeah. But it's sprinkled in there. Like, there's there's far too few of those sort of moments in the movie that rewatching it now made it stand out even more. I was like, yeah. I get it. It's not even that funny, but, yeah, I get it what they're doing. Probably if you're in a cinema, people will be busting their guts, but it's one of those moments like like you just I don't know. I just couldn't buy into what they're trying to sell. And it's weird because I love Shrek, and I think

20:29Oti: loved it all my life up until rewatching it now, and I'm like, there's some issues.

20:37KT: What a feeling to to love something for so long but start to realize that you don't love it anymore. Wow. I can really relate to that feeling. Get your finger out of your ass, Oti. This is a nice enjoyable movie. What were you expecting out of this? Because it seems like it was wrong, wrong, wrong.

20:37Oti: Not that it was wrong wrong wrong. I wasn't expecting much.

21:06Oti: Yeah. But it was enjoyable anyway. Yeah. What about you? What do you think about Shrek?

21:14KT: I think we're in the land where we like disagree to disagree because I actually really enjoyed this watching the second time around. Like sometimes you watch things and they just don't hold up. But I really enjoyed it and whether it was for kids or whether it wasn't, there was a story and there were main characters and there was overwhelming, whopping character development. And like I say, we watch a lot of shit. Sometimes it's good shit, sometimes it's bad shit, but we watch a lot of shit and you can't underestimate

21:43KT: the quality in being able to execute a story and bring us into a world where we actually care about the characters. Agreed. Agreed. They didn't make us care about it. Because if you wanna put that critical lens on, then yeah, that's exactly it. You had Shrek, a guy and you could tell he had this vibrato about him and it was all about leave me alone, leave me alone, leave me alone until two thirds of the movie he becomes vulnerable and he shares himself with Donkey and he says,

22:15KT: you know, everyone always judges me before they even get to know me. Are you telling me those are messages that kids don't need to hear?

22:15Oti: No. I didn't say it's messages that kids don't need to hear.

22:15KT: But that's what I'm saying. Like, there there are some tangible themes here that would hit differently for a kid and hit differently for an adult, but it's there for you to consume on the buffet that is Shrek, my love.

22:35Oti: Yeah. Agreed. Well, I just didn't feel the love too much as I did back then and that's fair enough to say.

22:43KT: Oh yeah, you're fair enough to say, I guess it's just weird that we had such a viscerally different sort of experience because when I see Shrek as a character, there's so much that you can relate to, right? Constantly feeling like people are judging you before you even get to introduce yourself, before you can even announce yourself, before you can even allow yourself to be yourself. There were a lot of messages about self love and the lack of self love. And I think that was done quite well in this film.

23:16KT: Whether you're a kid and you don't understand it and it's just about Shrek being grumpy and then Shrek being happy because he kissed a gal Or, you know, whether you're an adult and you can start to take off onion layers to this, if you'll pardon the reference. I really felt like there was a lot to get out of this movie. So it's I I guess it's just interesting that we had different experiences with this. That's all. Yeah. You wanna go to Donkey next?

23:41Oti: Yeah. He's bloody great. I think he makes this movie what it is. Here's the comic relief. He does it quite well. Eddie Murphy is bloody brilliant. You cannot unhear Eddie Murphy in this. I just picture his face on on a donkey's body this entire time. Yes.

24:00KT: We'll need to look it up, but I feel like Mushu was the first time I ever heard him in an animation. Whoever whoever realized that they needed to bottle Eddie Murphy's voice and put it in animation is a fucking genius. And we we should all spill our seed in deity to that.

24:17Oti: Oh, yeah. Can you imagine if Donkey wasn't in this and you just had Shrek?

24:26KT: Well, there's it's like, you know, when you're cooking, there's different sort of elements that you need to have to have a perfect sort of balance. And like you said, Donkey fills a lot of those roles. Yeah, he does. He brings even the realism and the feels. But I think he also brings the levity. You have Shrek that's a very grumpy sort of vibrato, not unlike someone in this room And then you have a really cutesy go lucky ass. Yeah. And I and I think it's fair to say that I'm the ass of this podcast.

24:58KT: Yeah.

25:01Oti: But it's funny. Like, usually the the sort of comic relief characters don't bring a lot of feels or heart to to the movie. They're very dimensional.

25:11KT: Yeah.

25:12Oti: Barely one. And and Donkey just he resonates with with a lot of people in this show in this movie, and you get to see him talking heart to heart with Fiona, having to heart to heart talks with Shrek. Like, it just goes beyond the sort of character that this sort of role envisions in a lot of other movies.

25:36KT: And I think it's also there's no maliciousness in him. I think that also contributes to why Fiona felt like she could impart her vulnerabilities to Donkey. I don't think he was naive in a sense. I think he just consumed the world a lot differently than other people. I don't know. Actually, Oti is our residential donkey expert. Not just because he inspects that ass daily, but also because the first time I ever saw a donkey in real life was in Kenya. You're welcome. I've never seen a real donkey in my life.

26:21Oti: And fun fact, there was a bylaw passed where donkeys in Kenya had to wear diapers. It's real.

26:29KT: It's real. Why why Oti decided that that would be impressive to me as a way to court me?

26:38Oti: It walks you sitting there, aren't you? But there needs to be a couch to unpack that.

26:43KT: But it's interesting and definitely look it up. I think you just type like Kenya and goat not goat, donkey nappies. Right?

26:43Oti: Yep.

26:43KT: Did they do the same for goats or not?

26:43Oti: No. Just donkeys.

26:43KT: Oh, okay. So there's a there's a hierarchy.

26:43Oti: But after a bit of a worldwide humiliation, I think it sort of went under the carpet a bit.

27:01KT: So there's like a black market of donkey sized diapers? Yep. So let's go back to donkeys. I just I wanted to talk from like a animal point of view. If you happen to know it, if not, just make it up for the sense of our listeners, don't let them down. But you know how you talk about animals being pack sort of animals. Lions not necessarily because usually it's just the fella, right? And then he's surrounded by all of his bitches. Yep, the pride. Yeah.

27:37KT: Yeah, like Sarabi had to swallow the pride. I guess my question is, do you happen to know if donkeys are like that as well? Because it's weird that he would be by himself.

27:37Oti: No. Donkeys are all hard and old.

27:37KT: Because you don't hear lone donkey, it's lone wolf.

27:37Oti: Well, donkeys are always the donkey that is I've seen, they don't walking together or anything.

28:05KT: Lone Donkey, Oti's first screenplay guys. Please please support our creative efforts. But it is interesting. Like you can see that Donkey's going through some shit. He just processes it differently. Yeah. But it was very nice to have the balance between Shrek and Donkey. And see this is Oti, this is the great thing about this podcast because you feel the way you feel but we're still discussing how the dynamics work. Right? Yeah. Which is very I think it's very nice and it's very heartwarming

28:38KT: as well. But yeah, whoever decided to bottle up Eddie Murphy's voice in animation form, thank you and accolades to all.

28:48Oti: It's just a shame he's not done any of these recently. I think he's being slept on a bit too much for someone who's really, really talented. I think if he wanted to, he could. Yeah. I mean, hopefully. Let's hope that's the case.

29:03KT: Yeah. I I think he wanted if he wanted to, he could surely. He's got the star power. Sometimes stars fade, mate. Well, speaking of stars, apparently, Shrek has his own. Really? On the On the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Wow. That's kinda disrespectful for all the celebrities that don't have one yet, but it's kind of cool. And next minute, McMahon doesn't have one.

29:23Oti: Right?

29:27KT: I'm sure there's a podcast that covers, like, you know, the Hollywood stars. There are so many podcasts for everything. So I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.

29:37Oti: Wow. That's interesting.

29:39KT: Right? But going back to Donkey's character, I enjoyed him. And like you said, he had more than one dimension to him and he was kind of the glue, if you'll pardon the inferior horse pun, that kind of kept the interactions together because even though Shrek is the titular character, he wasn't necessarily friendly with everyone. He didn't necessarily have interplay.

30:01Oti: Yeah. And if Donkey wasn't as pushy or as forgiving as he was, then that relationship would have really struggled. Oh, yes. So it's it's really great that he was written this way, and I feel like it was just kudos to them because he went from strength to strength. And even in the second movie, I think we we said we're not gonna talk about it, but in the second movie, I think they introduced was it the Puss in Boots?

30:30KT: Antonio Yeah. Banderas.

30:33Oti: Yeah. Who took it also to some sort of different level while he's like, Shrek is just my thing even though I kind of slated it earlier.

30:42KT: It's still one of the best things. Because, you know, even watching this first film, I thought there was more to it. So I think I kind of mixed together Shrek two and Shrek one in my imagination.

30:54Oti: Yeah. Because it's so much time has passed. Oh, yes. And I think it gets your wires crossed on what's going on or what's going to happen in this movie.

31:04KT: It's called age. It's called it's called the bitterness and the sharp coldness of the world. Oh, for sure. But there some there was some true lessons to learn in this film. And like I said, like, just having us focus on Shrek and Donkey, like, was a very it was a very simple sort of narrative, but that's where it thrived. I, like, I get you need to continue to do sequels and, you know, obviously, I'm sure the box office can reflect that. But I didn't necessarily care to expand their world. Right?

31:43KT: And see the the Donkey Dragon babies.

31:47Oti: They have babies?

31:50KT: Yeah. Like in Shrek three, I think it was. Oh, far out they did.

31:54Oti: Yeah. How did that work exactly?

31:56KT: Like literally.

31:57Oti: Wow.

31:58KT: What that donkey dick do dope? Like how would that physically work? I have no idea. Maybe he's a grower like like a big grower.

32:14Oti: Oh, maybe so.

32:16KT: But even when we're watching the first film when we see the dragon for the first time, she kind of well, she pretty much imprisons him. And she kind of bends her head and he's like, that's not the tail. That's not the tail. Were they suggesting fellatio?

32:33Oti: I think so.

32:34KT: Otherwise, what else would that be? Well, I guess donkey is love and donkey is also life then. Yeah. Like, that's just weird. And I guess kids wouldn't really know the difference because it's it's funny. It's a little donkey. It's a big dragon. But I'm sure the parents are sitting around being like, what the fuck, guys?

32:56Oti: Like those old Walt Disney movies where they have like hidden penises in them. Yeah. But this is DreamWorks dude. Just saying.

33:07KT: Speaking of DreamWorks, Shrek actually became like the mascot of DreamWorks because of how successful it was. And that's quite interesting like because if you think of Miyazaki, we had a Reference Degustation. Totoro, the success of that actually made him like the mascot of Studio Ghibli or Ghibli. Ghibli jubli. Ghibli. So it was quite interesting to see that Shrek kinda became that sort of centerpiece for DreamWorks. Agreed. I really enjoyed it. The animation I always thought was like weird at the time.

33:47KT: I think the best word to describe it at the time when I was a kid was it looked ugly.

33:52Oti: Oh, did you think that? Yeah, like purposefully so.

33:55KT: But I can't remember a film that I enjoyed that was in this sort of format more than I enjoyed Shrek even afterwards. Because I have Ice Age, which I guess was kinda cool, but then I think I was a bit older at the time. So I was like, okay. Cool. Like Ray Romano is a mammoth or whatever the fuck he was. And then they had that sloth looking thing like Sid. And Queen Latifah was also in Ice Age as well. Listen to our Living Single episode. Yeah. But, yeah, it was it was it was

34:27KT: was okay. But I think I was just older at the time. And then they had like Over the Hedge, Hoodwinked. Like, that had a lot of films, but I guess it's it kind of wears off after a while. Not necessarily the novelty, but the pioneering factor of it really does contribute to this success as well. Right? Like even when you think of like Black Mirror, for example, like anthology sort of shows or even just AI or like technology in general. Like once you've seen one of those, you've kind of seen it all really.

35:05Oti: Yeah. Yeah. I see your point. But I guess I just I just really enjoyed the sort of animation because I think back then, there were a lot of those coming out. Because I remember being really enthralled by Chicken Run.

35:17KT: I That looked very ugly to me. It was like Claymation. I don't know. I know Mel Gibson was in it. They played it at our Mormon events. Oh, really? I guess because it was PG or something. It looked ugly to me. I didn't like Chicken Run. I didn't like Wallace and Gromit either.

35:17Oti: No. Chicken Run had a Chicken Run had a really solid story.

35:17KT: Hang on, Oti. I think we lost all of our Briton listeners. It just like it just didn't appeal to me.

35:46Oti: Weird. I I I I'd say, like, Chicken Run had a better storyline sort of just because it borrows heavily from Animal Farm and we all know how brilliant that is.

35:58KT: Oh, yes. I wanna see well, it's not really a live action, but I wanna see like CGI ed Animal Farm, like Lion King esque.

36:05Oti: Yeah. We need to get a solid Animal Farm movie. It already exists.

36:09KT: Now. Oh, you don't mean the cartoon? No. Okay. But yeah, I think Shrek was the first that I actually enjoyed in regards to DreamWorks. I'm looking at DreamWorks right now. Was the Prince of Egypt not Disney? No. Oh. Well, there you go. Were there two Princes of Egypt or? There's only one Prince of Egypt. The one with Whitney Houston and Yeah. Mariah

36:34Oti: When you believe. Well, you took it all. What can I do? What comes after that? Oh, that's the end bit, isn't it?

36:48KT: Oti is an asshole. Alright. He always likes taking the delicious parts to sing and then he just leaves me flapping in the breeze. In this case, it was a mistake. So the first that I'm looking at is Antz. Antz was the first of DreamWorks in 1998. And curiously enough, connectedly enough, the team that worked on Antz was also recruited to work on Shrek.

37:16Oti: Makes sense. Antz was pretty good.

37:20KT: Antz or Bug's Life? This is going to get very controversial. Oh, Bug's Life. I felt like Antz was too real. Yeah.

37:27Oti: I I enjoyed Bug's Life more back then. Maybe now it'll be different, but Bug's Life is Everybody talk about Bug's Life.

37:37KT: Wow. Yeah. I had to get my own because you stole my Prince of Egypt. Because I feel like answers look too like I don't know because no bugs really look like that. What kind of purple ant have you ever seen? Antz kind of felt too serious as a kid anyway. But like you mentioned, so there's Prince of Egypt, there's A Road to El Dorado, there's Chicken Run as the fourth in the filmography according to

38:05Oti: Road to El Dorado is slept on. That's a really good movie.

38:05KT: I don't think I know what that is.

38:09KT: Oh, is this the are these the Quasimodo people?

38:13Oti: What?

38:14KT: It's drawn like the Quasimodo people. And then you had Shrek, but yeah, like Shrek was the epitome for me. I really enjoyed it. It was a new wave of animation. And it definitely deserves all of the accolades as well. Speaking of accolades, and we were just talking about Donkey. Eddie Murphy was the first to be nominated for his voice acting for a BAFTA in that sort of category. Like, it never really existed until then. But, of course,

38:43Oti: who else?

38:44KT: Well, I know who else isn't going to be getting a nomination. Meet me on the casting couch if you want a nomination for a Splooshie, but you're definitely not going to be getting a BAFTA with that.

38:57Oti: But wow. Eddie Murphy brought that role. Like, he made it his own and just kudos.

39:04KT: Kudos indeed. Let's move on to another character, Fiona. Cameron

39:09Oti: Diaz.

39:10KT: Did she offer much? That's not a that's not a dig. I'm just saying Shrek and Donkey was strong enough. They were strong enough, but she she had a moment. You know? Like her kung fu matrix moment?

39:23Oti: Oh, I think when that happened, we we had to rewind the tape a few times just to play that scene again over and over.

39:23KT: I wanna make this clear. It is the year 2020, and we did not, in fact, have a tape.

39:36KT: Could you imagine if this was, a podcast recorded, like, ten years ago?

39:40Oti: Ten years ago, we we had DVDs and shit.

39:40KT: The Road to El Dor-Oti.

39:50KT: But wow. But that that fight scene was actually homage to her training for Charlie's Angels. Yeah. No. But you we both seemed befuddled at it. Today? Yeah. Watching it. You know what we were doing? Not the other thing we were doing, what we were watching.

40:08Oti: I specifically remember. In fact, we had my brother used to bring his cool buddies and we'd come home and we'd all watch movies pretty much the whole day. And we were watching this. We rewound that scene over because it was just so amazing.

40:08KT: You were trying to get an upskirt?

40:08Oti: No, not really. You can get that in Charlie's Angels anytime. But Oh, really? No, you can't.

40:31KT: Why did she call me? How Dave?

40:35Oti: But wow wow wow she brings her own in this anyway like she's you know for for a princess that's you know she wants all a prince charming to come and rescue her says it all really like she has a good heart That's rare to come by. I I think it was I enjoyed

40:55KT: her self discovery and her her journey to self love. I enjoyed that.

41:04Oti: You you see Self friends love and is becoming a really big theme in this, isn't it? Do you see friends and lovers?

41:11KT: For Your Reference is an onion with all of the layers. You have one host being like, oh yeah, upskirt upskirt. And then you have another host talking about self love.

41:22Oti: I don't know. I think you meant the other self love. Feast.

41:28KT: The analrapist.

41:31Oti: Yeah.

41:31KT: That's an Arrested Development. You see what you did motherfucker? I was bringing some depth to this podcast. It just went deeper. Are you quite done, Zach? I'm done. Are you most welcome? Yeah. A bit too welcome. But I really enjoyed it and it's true. Like, I guess you can take whatever you want and yes, we are talking about a Shrek film but yes, there there are elements of self love and definitely moments where you don't necessarily love yourself. Right? Donkey talking to Fiona kinda felt like our Greyhound talking to me.

42:11KT: And Donkey's being like, Fiona, you look different. All of this all of the all of me besmirching Martin Lawrence and talking about sodium. I think some of the sodium got thrown my way.

42:28Oti: I think she she does a good job in this. Surprisingly so, at least. Anyway

42:33KT: no. Actually, no. Cameron Diaz is is solid. Have we covered no. She hasn't been in anything we've covered. So there you go. This is our first Cameron Diaz. Yeah. It's our first Eddie Murphy. Yeah. Oh, that is not right. Well, Donkey Mike is my name.

42:49Oti: That should be the next. That should be all fast, Eddie. Mike Myers.

42:54KT: I don't know. Can we can we digress about Mike Myers for a second? Did you like him? Yeah. I liked him. Do you think he was too much of a caricature? Because I've, again, come and fight me. I've never watched Austin Powers.

43:09Oti: Yeah. Austin I was I was never really a big Austin Powers fan. But you've watched it. Right? Yeah. Okay. Because those a lot of hula baloo. I tried my best to avoid Austin Powers until those all this hoolabaloo that Beyonce is gonna be in Austin Powers and everyone had to watch it and yeah. I wasn't a lot of fan of that.

43:29KT: Yeah. And I think it was the whole shtick of him playing the same, like, him playing multiple characters. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So kind of like what Eddie Murphy did, but more annoying? Or I'd I'd say more like what Jim Carrey used to do with Ace Ventura, but Ace Ventura was a bit like Like it's kinda one note. It's one note, but it was hilarious. No. Not non trademark. Don't come for us, Microsoft. That's a that's a very dumb, cute IT joke.

44:00Oti: I don't even say why not his IT. Right?

44:03KT: But then okay. If you're not in IT and you understood what we just said, tweet us. Bloody computer.

44:08Oti: Anyone who's used the computer before. Okay, peace. It was my ear innocuous. Community reference. Anyway, not a big fan of Austin Powers, but I did like nah. Cat in the Hat? That's Mike Myers. That's the one that killed his career. So no. Yeah. But he he gave some kids nightmares surely. I actually think this this might be quite controversial, but I I I kind of enjoyed The Love Guru.

44:36KT: I've never seen it, but it just seems offensive to me. Yeah. Yeah. And I can't put into words why, but it just seems very offensive to me. But I do love Borat, so my podcast. Okay. Oti Dul Dorado. Oh my God. I really enjoyed Shrek though. I really did. And it's shame that you're not able to share in the same gloriousness that I am but we can also discuss it as well. We didn't even talk about the motherfuck one. See, that doesn't even sound good either.

45:16Oti: Fuck one. Wow. They didn't even try it, did they? They definitely tried. They did not. Pick number three, my lord.

45:27KT: Oh, how creepy was that? What did he say? What did he say? What did he go They were showing so the what is that magical mirror on the wall or whatever? The mirror was talking about the eligible bachelorettes and they were talking about Snow White and said, she might be cold, but give her a kiss on the lips and you'll see her fire come alive or some shit. It was said in a more creepy way.

45:50Oti: I think he just sanitized that a bit too much. Look at me. I'm not creepy enough. Listen to that, guys. But wow. That made me I was like, woah. Okay.

46:01KT: Because I guess people are like, oh, I didn't realize Snow White is like really creepy. Like, if you think about It is creepy as fuck. No. But it's like, they were consciously aware of the fact that it was creepy by making that sort of comment. You can't acknowledge that it's not creepy and say shit like that.

46:16Oti: Man, the people who write this children books, far out.

46:23KT: This is not necessarily on the creepy level, but there was the little gingerbread cookie and Lord Farquaad was trying to get information out of him and the gingerbread was like, eat me and Oti is like, yeah, eat him. He'll be gone. Just eat him now. Oh, man. We wouldn't do well in a movie, would we? No, we would not. We would we'll definitely lose our faculties. Lord Farquaad, I think he was the character with the least sort of dimension in this film. Yeah.

46:57Oti: Didn't really offer much and whatever. So he's mean people I think it was I think it was just to prop up the other characters. Yeah. Yeah. And he did. And they killed him. So there it is for kids movie just eating like that.

46:57KT: Well, yeah. But even, you know, Lord Farquaad was talking about killing Shrek if he doesn't make it through either.

46:57Oti: Yeah. There's one thing about talking about it and then another one just doing it.

47:22KT: And that doesn't apply to all things, kids. Also, if you're a kid, you should not be listening to this. It's true. Unless you were somehow a product of the For Your Reference podcast. But I doubt that because we haven't been around for long enough. Technology, mate. You don't remember Justin Timberlake and 50 Cent had a song called Technology. Was it called Technology?

47:47Oti: Hey, yo.

47:50KT: Was a good music technology. Oh, wow. If you didn't think that I would bring a old song reference to the Shrek review. You are sorely mistaken friends and lovers.

48:07KT: Is there anything else you wanna say about this film?

48:07Oti: Oh, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. The first time

48:07KT: Tell yourself at the start of this episode, mate.

48:07Oti: Let me finish my sentence. I enjoyed it the first time I watched it. It was okay this time. It's still, like, a frame of reference and all. It it'll still be one of the best childhood sort of movies I watched growing up, so there it is. It that mantle will never be taken away from it. Okay. But now rewatching it, it was just a bit, alright.

48:36Oti: Cool. Cool. Cool. I get it. I get it. It moves the story along. The pacing was a bit well, actually, the pacing was alright, but I felt it was a bit too long. The exposition was okay. Writing was a bit too elementary. Then again, you said it's Watson. For wow. Yeah. Overall, an okay movie for adults.

48:57KT: I enjoyed it. I feel like there was enough for the parents or for adults to watch this and also keep their entertainment along. And I think kids will definitely enjoy it as well. What's the most like, one of the most important things when you're starting to watch a film or even a TV show is making us care about the characters. Establishing in some cases, why we should care about these characters and then giving us an inkling of where we are going. Whatever happens along the way happens along the way but we have a firm

49:38KT: vision of where we are going. And I feel like Shrek thrived in that. Yes, is animation. Sometimes people think animations are only for children. They're not? I would you?

49:54KT: In the most sexual of ways if you want, you know, that sort of fluid in your face because hello, Miyazaki masterpieces, listen to our Reference Degustation. But animation isn't a genre. There are so many different sort of genres that you can have in animation. And I definitely feel like Shrek, you know, it's a feel good fun film, but it also has some tangible real life themes that you can definitely apply in your day to day sort of viewing. Again, hopefully everyone is well.

50:33KT: You can enjoy Shrek and sometimes it's a nice reminder to just love your fucking self, man. Emotionally and definitely in this house physically, a lot, many times until you remember why you love yourself. So thank you so much friends and lovers. This was an interesting experiment. Was it not Oti?

50:33Oti: It was. I enjoyed it.

50:33KT: Yes, there are many other Shrek movies. I wouldn't go so far as to say we don't acknowledge it in the For Your Reference household, but they are there.

51:14KT: If you wanna see some new mutants, that's probably more enjoyable than the Marvel mutants. You can go and see those dragon donkey babies. Otherwise you have this episode and you have ninety minutes of pure joy. Apparently, the opening song with our best friend's Smash Mouth, that was just put there as a placeholder for the test screenings.

51:50Oti: And people loved it. Somebody

51:53KT: and I don't know how much they're gonna charge us, so that's enough. But yeah. And then once they saw how well the audience responded to it, they kept it in there because why not? And then they decided to let them do I'm a Believer at the end. Oh, nice. But whether you want to live in the entire world of the franchise is completely up to you Or if you just wanna live in the first Shrek, I think that's a great place to be. It sure is.

52:26KT: For Your Reference is a great place to be. We have a whole catalog if you're feeling lonely, if you still wanna hear our voices, if you if you're not done climaxing, you can continue to peruse our catalog at your leisure. And we're going to finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference.

52:47Oti: I'm gonna reference a DreamWorks movie that we just talked about earlier in the episode and that'll be Road to El Dorado. I think people don't appreciate it enough. It's a good, good solid movie. Go watch it.

53:03KT: Nice. Nice. I will reference a more recent DreamWorks film. I didn't really and then there's also Kung Fu Panda, which I didn't really

53:03Oti: Kung Fu Panda is awesome.

53:03KT: It was It was very pandering. If we use the cheesy sound effects on the soundboard, we probably would have pressed something right now. But I will reference The Croods.

53:37Oti: Ew.

53:40KT: Ew yourself, gossip Croods.

53:40Oti: You would refer you would

53:45Oti: you would take The Croods over Kung Fu fucking Panda.

53:45KT: Yeah. I would.

53:45Oti: I do not know you.

53:55KT: Jack Black as a panda, that is problematic at its worst.

54:02Oti: Wow.

54:03KT: Wow. Is that the rice paddy you wanna die on, sir? Yeah, it is. Like, how is that not as offensive as Matt Damon in that war movie that I don't think anyone watched or Andrew Garfunkel that other movie as well?

54:18Oti: Yeah. It's just it's an animation, you know? Anyway.

54:18KT: Isn't this why we have our own references so you don't need to leak into mine, sir?

54:18Oti: Yeah. I just got I just got shocked that you'd be Croods over that. That's all.

54:34KT: Well, there are many things that shock you, you know, about me, but we don't have time for that, love. Mhmm. Thank you so much for listening, guys. Go and hug your children. You might need to after this episode. On Twitter and Instagram, we are @ForYourRefPod. You can write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. If you're interested, if you care enough, we have Apple Podcasts if you would like to leave a rating and review. How you wanna do that is completely up to you. And we also have a Patreon. And

55:06KT: we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.