Scavengers Reign, Foe, Brand Bollywood Downunder & The Big Dog

Full transcript of Scavengers Reign, Foe, Brand Bollywood Downunder & The Big Dog.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household and not since Michael Myers, Oti, we have another giveaway.

0:07Oti: We do.

0:08KT: Um, we are Pitbull and we do love our worldwide friends and lovers, but we are specifically talking to our friends and lovers in Australia. We do currently have, and we're kicking off a giveaway. We've got 15 double passes to give away for the film Uproar. 17 year old Josh is forced off the fence. He has actively sat on his entire life to find his voice and to stand up for himself, his family, and his future. We are very, very excited to see this film. And we know a lot of our friends and lovers will also be excited to see it as well.

0:44KT: Um, if you're subscribed to the newsletter, if you're on our socials, um, check out the show notes and we'll have more details on how to enter if you're interested. Let's get on with the show. Howdy ho friends and lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference Podcast. You got your host,

1:06Oti: and Oti.

1:07KT: And before we even get started with Reference Max, which is our combined review format on films, screeners, screenings that we've been given access to before we even covered that, Oti, we have been very vocal and even on the podcast feed talking about the strikes, the strikes, the SAG-AFTRA strikes in effect, all the strikes have come to an end.

1:31Oti: It's over!

1:33KT: Yeah, right. Um, congratulations to everyone that is involved, whether it be the WGA, whether it be SAG-AFTRA or all those that contribute to the telling of stories. In many cases, especially for me, there are stories that are sacred and it's so important to be able to protect the industries. Um, and I, I guess we'll see, or we'll understand what the contracts are and that sort of thing. Um, but you know. 10 toes down, very staunch, you know, DJ never scared, just like in Pussy Valley. Um, you know, it's been so great to stand in solidarity and that sort of thing. And also while we're here and also with the format for Reference Max, I do want to take the time out to say, of course, our friends and lovers, but also for the PR and professional relationships that we have.

2:21KT: Thank you for those that have continued to work with us, even through, or maybe contributing to our solidarity with the strikes.

2:29Oti: sure. Surely appreciate it.

2:32KT: Truly appreciated as well. We've got a tasty, muy caliente docket, friends and lovers. We are getting to the Yuletide, the festive reference tidings of it, all friends and lovers. And it does get, uh, very busy in the For Your Reference household, but don't worry. I do have Shrek 2 written down somewhere to get Oti to

2:51Oti: to get our attention.

2:53KT: Um, so we're going to try to, you know, finish up the usual, um, sort of reviews that we have in November. Um, but yeah, so, so we do have a handful. We might even do one before the end of the, um, November month as well. But, um, I actually really like the, the, the, I guess the ordering. Of the reviews that we have. So we are starting off with the HBO series. Thank you to the team at Binge. We are covering the animated series Scavengers Reign.

3:27Oti: Oh, nice.

3:28KT: It has been available for a little while, but we're not going to spoil anything, but I am very, very, very excited to talk about this. Oti, kick us off of your thoughts and feelings.

3:40Oti: Scavengers Reign redefines sci-fi with its originality and intriguing depth. A dark, enthralling journey that captivates and challenges. This show was amazing to me. It felt like a breath of fresh air. And I loved every aspect of it.

3:57KT: The animation reflects the immersive and specific style that draws parallels to the ugly nature of the best and worst of us.

4:12Oti: Oh, look at you pulling out your PhD.

4:19KT: Officially recognized in FYR unofficially recognized everywhere else.

4:24Oti: Yeah.

4:25KT: Um, okay. Well, let's talk about the show. I want to, there's a lot in, especially in your impressions, but the first thing that I want to talk about in regards to Scavengers Reign is how jarring animation styles can be for me,

4:40Oti: Um,

4:40KT: you know, Oti still hasn't forgiven me for giving up on Kingdom.

4:44Oti: Just have to be patient.

4:46KT: Um, Onimusha, we had watched most recently, I was more used to watching that than I was Kingdom, for example. But, um, I guess the point is, and also, sorry, um, You know, I understand that there is a lot of pressure, you know, we're talking about the strikes in the US, but also in the animation industry, um, the anime animation industry, um, in Japan, and I'm aware of that, but I will also say when the MAPPA animation started for Attack on Titan, I also fell off the horse. Like Armin, I fell off the horse. Um, but I guess that's something that I want to preface is that, you know, I say I'm not a visual person. I'm not an aesthetic person, but I do, I am quite picky about animation style. So, um, this did take me some time to get used to it, or at least it has to be good. Cause if it's not good, I'm not going to put myself through, um, an animation style that I don't care for.

5:48Oti: Strange you say that because I felt like to me it, it brought something deeper. It felt, I felt like I could connect more with the story. I could expand myself viewing, you know, the environment and the world they'd build. I was looking at all the aspects and the facets and I felt like the drawing just brought out the, the creepiness and the weirdness of it all. to the surface. I felt like if it was crisper or if it was your, you know, pre-MAPPA Attack on Titan, I don't think it would have hit as much for me, especially with everything that was going on with the characters.

6:30Oti: I felt like I just loved everything about the animation stuff for this, because I felt like it blended so well with the story.

6:43Oti: Yeah, I could see that.

6:45KT: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I feel like, you know, just a couple of steps away, a couple of realms away. Um, I could like really early, um, Miyazaki. It reminded me of. Um, and yeah, but I think the, what I would say is credit to the story writing and credit to the world building because it got, cause you're right. And I absolutely agree with that. The creepiness and the style of the show was exactly reflected in its animation.

7:16KT: You know, even talking about like the environmentalism in Miyazaki films as well, we see that here.

7:22Oti: We do.

7:22KT: Or at least we see a coming back to nature,

7:25Oti: Mm.

7:26KT: um, in particular aspects. I guess I don't want to spoil it too much, but you have like the machines versus the natural world, um, or not necessarily versus, but I guess in juxtaposition of, um, so, so even the. The, the, the choices of, I would say it was gross looking, but you know what I mean? Like it really much reflected, um, like you said, the grotesqueness, the ugliness, the, the creepy shudder inducing mess.

7:56Oti: it did. And I think this show, when it started, I really didn't know why they were going with it. Mm-hmm, but sooner, I think soon after the first episode. I started really connecting with the story and being really having bought into the characters' journey of them trying to survive on trying to, you know, reach the ship so they could go back home and in their

8:20KT: the characters' journey of going back home,

8:21Oti: Yeah. And in the pursuit of going back home, you know, we experienced so much, you know, the adventure and the self. Sort of not only the self reflection of it all, but them identifying, you know, ways in which they could have been better in the previous world and getting to see their lives prior.

8:45KT: It's like the decisions that got you here are also the decisions that might help your survival, but then how do you live with yourself?

8:52Oti: Exactly. And there were characters who frustrated me, like in any other show, but it wasn't anything that, I can't stand this. It was more, Oh, I hate this person, but let me see how I can enjoy their downfall even more.

9:07KT: Yeah. I also don't think there was a lot of, um, loaded exposition in this.

9:13Oti: No, there wasn't. There really wasn't. And it felt very fresh.

9:18KT: Yeah.

9:19Oti: And it's very hard to do, especially in this day and age, where we have heaps of things to watch

9:25KT: Uh-huh,

9:26Oti: and consume. And this just stands

9:29KT: hard to stand out. Yeah,

9:31Oti: It stands out and to its own merit, because everyone that hears about this, it's definitely a must watch.

9:40KT: I think you're right because, you know, whether it was us casually watching or a mixture of us casually watching with the screeners and screenings and that sort of thing, it is hard to like, you know, something you catch attention for like 15 minutes and then you're sitting there for an hour waiting for something, you know, wake me up inside Evanescence style.

9:59Oti: Right, and it's the emotional pull as well. Yeah, it was. You know, like, I find it hard to remember feeling so emotional watching, Uh, a newly brought up animation that I didn't really know anything about. I didn't even had hype going into it. And this just delivers on all fronts. And I was so happy to be exposed to

10:25KT: And I think it's also, you know, we give a lot of love and Splooshies to animation and animation spans all genres because animation isn't a genre. Yeah. And I guess the elasticity that animation offers. And in some cases it might just be a through line to get from point A to B. Um, but it really becomes part of the charm of Scavengers Reign. And they really do explore all broken limitations of what animation can bring.

11:00Oti: It's interesting because this year alone, we were given Quantum Cowboys. And it's something that challenged, yeah, it challenged the way I thought about movies and shows and animation. And

11:13KT: It's like, this is your box and stay in that box.

11:16Oti: Exactly.

11:17KT: And then you have Scavengers Reign. You have Quantum Cowboys that absolutely shatter that expectation.

11:23Oti: Yeah.

11:23KT: Cause even the best films, even the best TV shows still sit within that box. It's not a bad box, but it's still one that is expected and known and comfortable.

11:37Oti: Exactly. And using animation to maybe push the boundaries of the world further, I'm here for it. Hmm.

11:52KT: using animation to a point where there were storylines I didn't care for, but what I will say is there was definitely, again, if you're doing it right, friends and lovers, and you're writing that motion, there is a use of push and pull tension if you're nasty. You know, when one character's really. I guess, descending into, you know, their flight or fight sort of response, but really it's, it's eating into that carnal sort of desire. Right.

12:20Oti: Yeah.

12:21KT: And, and, you know, not pulling away from that tension or pulling that tension to like, you know, shock the senses and then move us into another moment. There was also, um, you know, without any sort of spoilers, but, you know, since we're already talking about Miyazaki and Ghibli, like there was like a No-Face sort of element, um, you know, in Spirited Away that we had in this. And I think that's also like literally all praise, like no notes or praise for this show, because what, you know, it's exactly what we said. There's definitely uses of flashbacks, which I guess you could say. Is exposition, but I would say that was purposeful and it was for emotional impact.

13:01KT: Cause even you talk about the emotional impact, right? But there wasn't any sort of bloated exposition because friends and lovers with a learned pen, you are able to explore that even in nonverbal ways.

13:15Oti: Oh yeah. Yeah. And, um, heaps, heaps of moments where no one really needed to say anything and the message was delivered loud and clear. And they use it so eloquently in this that it blows your mind and it creates the sense of you wanting to learn more of the world and wanting to be part of that world. And even thinking about the sort of environmental impacts of our world and what that means and how that looks like 10, 15, 50 years from now, um,

13:52KT: 50 Sully!

13:53Oti: It raises a lot of questions and it creates, it, it puts the breadcrumbs of that you'd want to follow. And I was there for it.

14:02KT: Oh, absolutely. Um, yeah, it's, it's just an exciting time. Um, and I think also, I guess just to loop back and close off if you're nasty. Um, it wasn't to say that the animation style was bad. It's just, I'm not going to lie. There were definitely moments throughout where I was saying, Disgusting! It's gross!

14:25Oti: Disgusting! It's gross!

14:26KT: Um, But it wasn't like ugly and, you know, come and fight me Szechuan sauce friends and lovers outside of the McDonald's car park.

14:36KT: Um, Rick and Morty is fucking ugly to look at, you know? And then there are so many other cartoons that look like Rick and Morty now. Um, you know, sometimes it's nice to enjoy.

14:50Oti: Oh yeah, 100%.

14:52KT: Speaking of something from a different world, um, thank you to Sue and the team at TM Publicity as well as Transmission Films, um, Saoirse Ronan, Paul Mescal, that's usually if you were to use the South Park, um, machine of Family Guy writing, those would be the balls that the Dugongs are putting together. As well as Aaron, um, Pierre as well. So I'm talking about the film Foe. Um, Oti hasn't had a chance to watch it yet, but, but let me get into my first impressions, we're not going to spoil it, but I know once I get my first impressions, Oti will have some questions.

15:31Oti: Oh, for sure.

15:33KT: Foe initially presented as a sci-fi, but settled into a relationship film where we meet the couple at the fragmented stage. The singular focus was its weakness, but the strong performances are without question.

15:48Oti: Okay. I can see what you're putting down.

15:51KT: you look at the poster as well. It sells itself and therefore instills the impression that this film is going to be sci-fi driven. Maybe not to the level of my favorite episode of Black Mirror with Domhnall Gleeson, Be Right Back. But it was going to have some sort of potentially social commentary, but it was going to live in the world of, you know, What happens to the world with a Mad Max of it all, you know, how water is such a precious sort of resource and that sort of thing.

16:32Oti: Yeah.

16:33KT: Um, this is a very KT note, so I, I won't really spend a lot of time on it, but this is a very KT note that I do need to mention. Um, I, I think my biggest note in regards to Foe isn't even the relationship part, which we'll get to, but my biggest note about Foe is they're talking about the lack of access to clean drinking water, which if we're going to be very real about it, a lot, lots of parts of America. Including Native reservations don't even have clean access to clean drinking water right now or, or Flint, Michigan. You know what I mean? So there's that there's the fact that we're saying this is so far in the future. And it's also not to say that it needed to focus on like native voices or black and Brown voices, but it was just very interesting in the way that this film was framed of like, Oh, we're struggling.

17:28KT: It reminded me of Don't Look Up. You know

17:30Oti: It

17:30KT: mean? It was like, Oh, we're struggling. It's like, yeah, bros, people are struggling right now. Not in this hundreds of years of future that you're talking about for this very specific issue. But the premise of the film is that eventually humans won't be able to exist on earth.

17:47Oti: Okay.

17:47KT: I guess we can just focus on the fact that we have depleted resources.

17:51Oti: Mm hmm.

17:54KT: So they're looking to create a different colony or like move to another planet. Right. So they're just moving away. Although I'll also make it very clear, friends and lovers, while I do believe because it would be very hard to not believe that there's other life forms outside of earth, I don't think we would be in the top percentile of intelligence, but I Especially if we can't even comprehend other life forms outside of this world. They're the ones gentrifying us, you know? Um, but yeah, so even that notion. Even though it's not necessarily a premise that I necessarily gravitate to. Um, it was definitely more interesting than what Foe presented and what, what Foe made clear was going to be the film, I guess, like a third of the way in was that this was a relationship movie and, you know, friends and lovers, like I know everyone, and I do love Celine Song.

18:58KT: Friends and lovers. And I know everyone's, you know, super falling in love in different decades for Past Lives. I understand that. Um, I don't, I have a lot of time for Adam Driver, but I don't have time for Marriage Story, but I don't necessarily care for the genre, the trope, the emergence of relationship based films. Well, first off, they're just yelling at each other. And second off, we meet them when they're fragmented and you're, you're expecting us to care.

19:31Oti: Yeah, to root for them to come together, I guess.

19:35KT: Cause the whole film is, is them trying to reconcile and trying to connect and that sort of thing. But it's like, I don't even think I ship you two. So why? You guys don't even seem to like each other. Because again, we were at that fragmented stage. And, you know, I say it a lot, friends and lovers. You, you won't see, I am not, I am not the person. That sits around and tweets about a Starbucks cup in the background. Cause I don't fucking care about that shit. Right. However, if I'm not engaged in a story, I will look around and I will poke at the logic of the world building.

20:15Oti: So, when they introduced them as a couple,

20:17KT: Yes.

20:18Oti: did they at least try and portray the life before when they were happy?

20:23KT: don't live here anymore.

20:25Oti: Or was it just, this is where we're at? And that's it. we're at,

20:29KT: and you're going to struggle with us through the rest

20:32Oti: Ha ha

20:35KT: movie. Ha Die in a thirst, man. Um. Yeah, cause then, so it's, I guess the interesting sort of component that we have is Aaron Pierre and can we just say, and I'm pretty sure friends and lovers, if you've watched Old, I think we've covered it on Patreon, but if you've watched Old, um, Aaron is in that and he is a whole tank of a man. I think they called him, like he was, they, they gave him like a midsize station wagon or something. Like they gave him a name. Of like a fully solid unit and he's a fully solid unit tank of a man. Right. And this isn't spoiling and this isn't like. Um, it doesn't necessarily make or break, you know, any sort of resonance that you might have, not me, ayo, um, was Paul Mescal, which I popped my Paul Mescal cherry and am I supposed to feel nothing?

21:28KT: I'm not sure. I guess we, I guess we can explore that later. Um, you know, but there is a whole buzz around Paul Mescal, um, and his character is trying to actually intimidate Aaron's character. And his, in his brain, in his scrawny ass brain, his way of intimidating Aaron was saying, have you ever been in a fist fight before? Like, I know this is sci-fi, not reality, but my guy,

22:03KT: if he hasn't, he can take you on 10 times over.

22:06Oti: Ah, maybe he had those patents installed, bruv. Hehe. Um,

22:12KT: audit Oti. Um, yeah, but it's like, cause I don't want to talk too much about the dynamics um, between the couple, but yeah, I'm just sitting around being like, why are you guys, why are you guys together? And why am I watching you try to be together?

22:28Oti: Alright, um, uh, I guess to me... I'd be disappointed as well if I went into something thinking that I'm going to get some, my sci-fi fix and it ending up as a Marriage Story sort of vibe. I get that. Um Was there any redeeming qualities that you thought of? Well, you said there was really something about acting in this

22:53KT: But we've also come to find that just because actors enjoy doing the roles, it doesn't mean a great film that makes,

23:09Oti: Yeah, makes sense.

23:11KT: well, whenever you get a chance to watch it, Oti, definitely report back.

23:15Oti: I will, and I'll bring my Zendaya and John David Washington baggage in there as

23:21KT: Yeah. Why didn't you even mention Malcolm and Marie?

23:23Oti: I am now. So I'm looking to say what?

23:27KT: Actually, no, there is one thing I want to say quickly about film.

23:30Oti: Mmm.

23:32KT: If okay. Cause I hold spoilers very sacred. I don't think this is a spoiler, but it might be so spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. I'm not saying what it is, but this film has a twist.

23:43Oti: Okay.

23:44KT: And then it, it made me feel like that SpongeBob meme. Oh brother, this guy stinks! Like, boo!

23:55Oti: It's like, boo, boo, boo!

23:56KT: Um, which, like, side note. Um, I remember watching Law Abiding Citizen and again, if you consider this a spoiler, but there was a twist in Law Abiding Citizen. And I remember that blowing my little, little mind. So I wonder if I were to watch it now, if I would also say boo and roll my eyes at it. Um, so maybe it's just catching me at a particular point in time. I don't know, but yeah, I, I didn't necessarily care for that. Um, I would, we don't necessarily do recommendations in our Reference Max, but I will while we're here. Um, Aaron Pierre kind of presents that, uh, Wildcard third element that no one is expecting, um, just to fuck shit up essentially. So I will reference Takashi Miike's Visitor Q because that is a beautiful, perfect.

24:56KT: And, and, and what is it? The, the freedom, the springtime of life.

25:00Oti: Yeah.

25:01KT: It's so delicious

25:02Oti: We're all chasing that.

25:04KT: Oh, absolutely. Um, yeah, but I would definitely reference that as, as a more effective way of, um, you know, being able to achieve that, but are you ready to move on, Oti?

25:14Oti: Let's move on.

25:16KT: Thank you to the team at NixCo. Um, this film is called Brand Bollywood Downunder. Um, I don't think Oti's had a chance to watch this screener, but. We are both very learned, at least, don't ask us past the 2000s, um, but we are in some way, considerably, moderately knowledgeable, if not learned, uh, when it comes to Bollywood films,

25:46Oti: Mm hmm.

25:48KT: let me get into my first impressions and we'll have a little talk about it because I haven't even had a chance to talk to you after I had a chance to watch the film. Much like decisions in Australia on policies versus cinema, this film made decisions that were perhaps to appeal to new fans, but also felt jarring like the narration. It was a delight to watch through the decades of richness in Indian cinema that has had a global and lasting legacy.

26:17Oti: Nice. Okay. A lot of things we can pick from that.

26:22KT: Yeah, but not, not, um, screwing the light bulb. We're not doing that shit. Yeah. How much footage they had of old white men doing this in this film?

26:31Oti: that

26:32KT: Yeah. You know, I'm getting started. I'm revved up room, room, swerve. Motherfucker.

26:37Oti: Wow. Somebody

26:38KT: pulling into the lane.

26:40Oti: Alright, move through, Davido.

26:44KT: Okay. So. In regards to, so, so we need to, okay, so we're not strangers to reviewing documentaries. We don't do it as much as fiction, but we, we have been known to, and we have done even full reviews, um, on documentary films as well. Right, Oti?

27:05Oti: Yep.

27:07KT: And there are, there's at least, at least. Two layers, when you're talking about a documentary film, it's the actual subject matter that is being discussed like Fyre Island. There's a whole catalog of Fyre Island documentaries you can watch.

27:24Oti: Well,

27:25KT: Well, that's also access to clean drinking water as well.

27:28Oti: Isn't it?

27:31KT: So there's the actual subject matter and you could split it into two, but the subject matter, as well as the discourse, the discussion around that subject matter. But then there's the actual evaluation, analysis, and discussion on the decisions that were made for the documentary. If you're deep at FAM, are you with me?

27:53Oti: I'm with you.

27:54KT: Deep at FAM. So, what I will say in regards to the biggest positives is that It, the, the most compelling parts of the documentary, which was probably like the first half or maybe two thirds of the film was focusing on the decades of Indian cinema.

28:16Oti: Yeah.

28:17KT: Also the level of legends that even without periphery of understanding the industry, there were some OG heavy hitters. Um, that were in this documentary as well.

28:31KT: Shah Rukh Khan wasn't in it, but he was featured a lot in the archival footage. Um, but what I'm saying is there's so much richness in it. Um, there's definitely a lot of films I've added to the list. There was a film called Kismet that came out in the 1940s, very close, um, to the time of Indian independence that was in 1947 and in this film Kismet, it was so interesting because. They had, they had songs and obviously there was a lot of pageantry, but what they were saying was, you people go away. India is ours.

29:08Oti: All right.

29:09KT: Or was it the world go away? And somehow the British people didn't understand. That it was being targeted at them. So, you know, it reminded me friends and lovers. If you listen to our coverage of the South African film festival, um, I talked about the opening night of the South African film festival where they had a documentary, um, of Joseph Shabalala, um, and how film, how music, how art is used in a way to speak to the truth and the struggle at the time. So there's, there's a lot to love about, um, Brand Bollywood Downunder, but the flavoring, and I guess the, the USP of this film was to focus on the explosion that it had in Australia. And what I will say, Oti. And, you know, if you get time, I would love to watch you watching this. We have, again, titans in Indian cinema.

30:11KT: We have, you know, the fact that we're centering Indian stories and Indian filmmakers. And for whatever reason, they chose an Australian accent to be the narration of Bollywood.

30:24Oti: Really?

30:25KT: Not, not, not when, not when the cinema like experience came to Australia, but throughout the decades through colonial rule, they chose to have like an Australian accent as a narration. And I can't understand why they would do that.

30:43Oti: Uh, trying to, uh, anchor it to home?

30:47KT: Yeah. See, but that's why I'll dispute where home is. Cause home is India, not Australia. You see, you see what I'm saying?

30:53Oti: I see, I see what you're saying.

30:55KT: who's the audience for this documentary? If you purposefully put an Australian accent narration, Oh, I'm Bollywood. Oh, but Australians can't accept me. What the fuck man?

31:11Oti: Oh, it's the duality of it though, isn't it?

31:13KT: But there isn't a duality.

31:15Oti: There is because

31:16KT: is an appeasement for the West.

31:17Oti: Isn't the name of the movie itself Brand Bollywood Downunder?

31:23KT: It should have just been called Down Under, mate. Let's, let's, let's, I guess, let's, let's get off the straddle and, and, um, cool down for a bit. I guess let's just talk about, cause we've never, we've never had a chance to talk about any Bollywood. And it was also, um, mentioned in the documentary that a lot of, a lot of even veterans and Titans and legends in the industry actually find the word Bollywood controversial or they hate it or they scorn it and they don't like the use of the term Bollywood.

31:57KT: I guess because it, it, it distills a derivative simplistic sort of view of Indian cinema.

32:06Oti: Apply to Hollywood?

32:08KT: I thought you were going to say Nollywood.

32:10Oti: No, like Hollywood, Nollywood, Bollywood.

32:13KT: No, but it's also pointed out that even within India, there are multiple dialects. So even then, even if you're saying Indian cinema, there's so much richness in it. It's like a million times more bigger than Hollywood and the rate at which, because, um, Anupam was mentioning he in India, he only needs 15 percent of the population to show up for him to make big money compared to like in Australian cinemas where it's so hard to succeed.

32:46Oti: everyone to bring their aunties, cousins and uncles. Yeah. And to watch it twice. Exactly.

32:50KT: Exactly. Exactly. Um, yeah. So I, I guess from that point of view, I'm just like, I, I guess it also depends. Cause again, I don't know who the audience is. Is friends and lovers. Um, there's a really great review from Dilpreet, um, that I will put in our show notes, um, that you can read at a time, um, because I would, I would amplify her voice over mine, but I also, I'm saying the same thing as well, um, but before but I'm standing behind, not in front, Oti.

33:26Oti: All right. Say, say it with the chest then.

33:31KT: Um, but let's talk a little bit about. The impact of Bollywood, because it was a time, you're talking about like the two thousands. I don't, I don't see a place in the world that wasn't watching Bollywood films.

33:47Oti: Yeah, I'd even say late 90s, sort of. Like, it was, it was, it was big when I was a kid growing up. You know, um, Kenya has a big Indian population. So those always things on the national broadcast that would cater for that audience or have programs around, you know, um, Oh, have Bollywood movies. If I may call them that. Then, you know, so it was only natural for me to consume them and I enjoyed it. I grew up consuming a lot of that and I think there was a point in time where well, I don't consume as much right now, but I am not shy to it.

34:37KT: But the love is still there. And it's thought of very fondly as well. And like, far be it from me to want some sort of Pacifica representation, but you're also doing, okay. Can we also talk about it as well? This film was talking about how much Australians love Bollywood, but you know, when they say Australian, you know what they mean?

34:58Oti: what do they mean?

34:59KT: White people.

35:01Oti: No, but

35:02KT: be real.

35:03Oti: Factors.

35:03KT: Cause I'm like, if you're in Australia, cause usually if it's like us, I'm like, fine, if it's in UK, fine. But if you're in Australia and you didn't know, like the level of buzz that Bollywood films had around the Pacifica, they talked about all, all different cultures, all different countries. They talked about Africa. They talked about the Middle East. They talked about Asia and they had like pictures of all the actors going. Maybe it's because the actors never went to the Pacific. I don't know. Maybe, maybe I'm making big claims, but maybe it's that I don't know, but it's just weird to make a documentary in Australia, talk about the rich multiculturalism that you see on a postcard, but then also ignore the fact that it had such a wave, not just to Pacifica people in Australia, but even like my family in Tonga.

35:49KT: You know what I mean, but again, it made it very clear that I wasn't the voiceover person and I wasn't the audience. Perhaps,

35:58Oti: perhaps, perhaps. Stand back, son.

36:01KT: Well, I stand back cause it's not for me, clearly.

36:05Oti: Well, I stand not to watch this because maybe I'd have a different lens to it. Either way. Um, it does sound, so how, was it intriguing just seeing the evolution of Bollywood and Indian movies throughout the years?

36:27KT: Yes. Um, I, I do have some notes. Thank you so much for, um, pointing that out, Oti. Um, so there was a managing director for Applause Entertainment, Sameer Nair, and he said from the 1947, which is the independence, yeah. From the 1947 to the seventies, he referred to it as the Innocence of Independence. Um, and the freedom and the vibrancy at which filmmaking was made

36:53KT: during the time. Um, also I did reference, uh, Kismet. That was Maithili Rao, who was a film critic and also an author as well. Um, the big OG, OG, the big, big daddy of everyone in the world, Anupam Kher talked about how he was born eight years after the independence.

37:16Oti: Mm-hmm.

37:17KT: you know, being a Tongan as well as you being a Kenyan, I think there's something that you, like, that is so relatable about talking about how film is an escape.

37:27Oti: Yeah.

37:28KT: Like, it might be a Star Wars, but even just in general, like, just to take you out of your fucking day to day.

37:35Oti: Oh, it sure is.

37:37KT: And he talked about, I think it was his grandfather that said, if you're from a poor family, you have plenty of time to dream. And there was also a notion of Bollywood slash the Indian cinema industry, um, where Anupam said, we don't sell misery of life. We celebrate life. And something that was very interesting to me in the documentary. Was cause it is, it is fair. And even though I don't have a lot of experience in it, but they talked about how Bollywood is it's vibrant, it's goofy, it's fun. There's a lot of action. It's very bombastic. Um, Vivek Vaswani also said Hindi films aren't here to educate or enlighten you, but simply to entertain thinking leads to depression. Which maybe, you know, it reminds me of our Takashi Miike run, where we talk about very specific commentary to the country, like Japan, but in, you know, India in this instance, um, which I find interesting because there were a lot of generalized statements that were made.

38:44KT: And again, not being Indian, I definitely, you don't need to take anything that I say into regard. Um, but it's interesting to make such a generalized, it's a positive one, but it's interesting to make such a generalized comment to a whole richness of cinema, unless they're saying all of the films were positive and no one was talking about the struggle.

39:10Oti: That that's sort of the take, um, or the angle that it went down. Um, but yeah, I think there's a lot of people that celebrate Bollywood movies. It's been a staple for such a long time everywhere. And, um, two more years, you know, for people in Australia to embrace it.

39:31KT: Well, I'm glad you said it like that because I wanted to end on something and I called it yucky white people. See, they should have just focused on Pacifica people then.

39:43Oti: Alright, go for it.

39:44KT: where this documentary took a turn that I didn't care for in this film, which again, it's still unanswered who this documentary is for, but again, we know who this documentary is for. It became, it became a conversation about commerce and embedding it into policies as opposed to the art of filmmaking and cinema.

40:07Oti: Okay.

40:07KT: So Adelaide, for example, was like probably one of the States to embrace making Bollywood films in Australia the most,

40:17Oti: Mm.

40:17KT: but they were doing it in a way that would bring tourism. So essentially, can you make it as much of an ad in its most positive light as you could?

40:26Oti: you put?

40:27KT: And then you had people behind the scenes that interestingly, or maybe they think they're not saying anything wrong, but I'm going to call it out today. There was a There was a, woman that was in the documentary and, you know, if you want, I can find her name. Um, but she talked about how, you know, they would get calls from everywhere, all over the world, the UK, the U S all these people will be calling because they want to film in Australia. She got a film from India, someone from India asking to come and make a movie in Australia.

40:58KT: And she didn't know what to do with a call from India to film in Australia. She just didn't know what to do with it. Like it didn't have the same validity.

41:06Oti: Oh, why is that?

41:07KT: You know,

41:08Oti: I know. Why did they say, why did she say, why?

41:12KT: face said, why her voice said, why the egregiousness and the audacity for her to say it years, years later is why, um, there was also another instance where, so I guess it's also understanding the differences in countries and in culture. You know, even, you know, even in Kenya, for example, even in India, there are different levels of, I guess, roles in society. Right. So even on film sets, they would have tea wallahs, you know, people that specifically make the tea or people that will be holding the umbrella or people that would be handling any sort of equipment. Right. But it was even mentioned in the documentary, like filming is a party, you know, being on a film set is a party and it's a lot of fun.

42:03KT: Um, but then you had like these white Australian people saying, Oh, as if like, as if these Indian filmmakers were trying to exploit the system that they were trying to exploit from the Indian filmmaking industry. Fuck off. Cause they were like, Oh no, we'll just get someone else to make your tea. Why do you need someone holding an umbrella? Fuck off. You're going to be making profits off this. And it's like, you're, oh, oh, it really bothered me. No, no, no. Because the very premise is you making commercial profit for making films here. Right. But you still need to watch them. And I'm like, that's gross. You're being gross, boo. And then you still have that Australian voiceover. Um, and there was also another yucky comment of mysteriously. There's so many Indian filmmakers overnight, which was really gross. And also she did say that there was all these overnight directors that came out of nowhere and she was worried they wouldn't go back.

43:06Oti: Wow.

43:06KT: just want to put that on the record. That's all.

43:10KT: But, um, celebrate the vibrancy of Indian cinema, or if you want to call it Bollywood, friends and lovers.

43:17Oti: Nice.

43:18KT: Okay, well let's wrap it up and let's stay local, Oti. Um, we are going to be covering the Australian film, The Big Dog. Shout outs to Dane McCusker, um, uh, and the team that made The Big Dog possible. Oti, hit us up with your first impressions.

43:36Oti: The Big Dog grips with its dark humour and complexity. Intriguingly crafted, making it a memorable watch. Which is, um, sort of my overall take on it, I think. The aspects of the movie that I really enjoyed, and it was weird because I didn't really resonate with any of the characters, but still, I remember it fondly and I enjoyed it till the end.

44:03Oti: the fondling, very nice. Yeah.

44:04KT: Interesting. Interesting. Um, I definitely want to get into a discussion with you, but let me get into my first impressions. There were a lot of elements that added to the mania, but bringing substance to the characters would have created more resonance in the climax. What The Big Dog absolutely commits and delivers is going full balls to the wall. Um, so we obviously won't spoil this film, but I'm pretty sure just from the periphery of the synopsis and the trailer, it isn't a surprise that, you know, we see a duality. Of a very successful, financially successful, um, man by day, or even, you know, even the same by day and night.

44:50KT: Um, and that, that need to want to be dominated in the shadows as well. Um, and that's what we see in this film.

44:59Oti: We do. I think, just from a storytelling perspective, I felt that they did cover a lot, even thematically.

45:09KT: They did cover a lot, but do you feel like it lessened the impact? Cause there was so much to focus on.

45:14Oti: Maybe so, there's some aspects of it that I thought maybe they could have gone deeper with, but stepping back, or at least once the movie finished and looking at it as a whole, I still felt it kept that sort of entertainment factor at its core, where yes, there's a lot of heavy things that could have gone in done, but I think it would have taken a bit out of the movie if they had dove in deeper.

45:44Oti: Uh, so I just appreciated for it was at the end and looking at the performances, I thought it was fun. It was fun. And I could not, I would not change anything about it. Despite the fact that I would have wanted to see more, I understand what this movie is. And I'm happy for it to tow its lane.

46:12Oti: I can have feedback, but it's, it's one of those things that where I had like strong feelings watching it, but once I got to the end, I sort of understood the overall perspective and it's changed my, my perception of what the movie was.

46:29KT: Okay. Well, you're not alone because it was the runner up for audience award for best Australian feature.

46:38KT: Um, you know, I'm just scrolling the press kit now because even on IMDb, it's not clear to me on what the rating is. Do you know what the rating is, Oti?

46:47Oti: No.

46:48KT: Okay. So the reason why, the reason why I asked that, and again, we're not going to spoil this film, but the reason why I asked that is you're making a film about a dominatrix. Yeah.

46:57Oti: Mm.

46:58KT: So we're speaking to that Paul Giamatti depravity of depravity in a good way, because you want to be dominated. Right.

47:06Oti: Yeah.

47:08KT: And we're all about that nasty in the For Your Reference household, friends and lovers. Um, but the reason why I asked about the rating is because. The very premise of this film is, is sexual in nature. And I guess you could say is for mature audiences.

47:22Oti: Mm.

47:23KT: However, even in the moments of, I guess, exploring that dominatrix sort of side, it wasn't necessarily explored to full fruition. I don't want to sound like Sean Bean right now, but

47:38KT: I will say that there were moments in the film and friends and lovers, you know, I always mentioned, she said. Um, and the decisions that were made to film it in a safe way, I don't think that was this, but there were some decisions in the film that felt as though it was pulling back its punch, so to say, it was pulling back its dominatrix punch, if you're nasty. Um, and there were also moments that whether it was played for comedic effect or not. There were very compromising, um, you know, positions, if you'll pardon the pun, um, that we have our lead character, Richard Morgan in. But then there was a decision not to go all the way there as well. So that's why I was trying to check the rating because we're dabbling in a world that should be so full of sexual exploration, but it's not necessarily portraying that in the final cut.

48:31KT: Does that make sense?

48:33Oti: Yeah, and this is where I think the movie takes tangents because what I thought the movie was at the start isn't what I thought was it was at the where I thought initially it was the exploration of all the sexual freedom of the protagonist. It really wasn't. And yes, the dominatrix stuff was there. But I felt that it was more the handling of

49:02KT: the fallout

49:04Oti: fallout and the acceptance within the family or within the members of the family on what that means to them and the effects of that.

49:13Oti: So I understand what you're saying and where you're coming from, from that aspect, but I still felt that I really didn't even need more of that because it was more insular. In how this guy tries to not only come free and burden himself from the shame he feels for what he wants. And I think the most powerful moment for me was when he was able to, you know, just let it all out.

49:42KT: yeah, but does it always have to be done in such a, I wouldn't say it was toxic, but it was done in a very dramatic way. He had many opportunities to come clean to wifey just chose the most dramatic way to do it.

49:58Oti: Yeah, but sometimes you are faced in a, you are put in a position where that's the only way that it can come out. And you know what? It made for good viewing and I think, you know, and, and I think halfway through, no, halfway through the movie, I thought we were going towards. Um, Hugh Jackman's The Son, was it? I thought there'll be semblances of that. That was a full on drama.

50:24Oti: It was a full on drama. It was very good. But I thought that's what we're gonna get with this.

50:29KT: My daddy didn't love me.

50:31Oti: So I'm doing as best as I can. And that is good enough for you.

50:35KT: No, do more than show

50:38Oti: Now, I thought it was gonna be The Son in a more sort of comedic, dark humor take.

50:44KT: Yeah.

50:45Oti: And it wasn't so I was, I was thinking a lot of things, all this movie would be while I watched it and at the end, I was like, okay, I still got to the end and I'll remember this movie fondly for what it gave me, especially being an Aussie movie. I think I've not seen enough Aussie movies that, that took themselves this, like the balls to the wall nature.

51:11KT: I guess so.

51:14Oti: But,

51:14KT: you know, even if we just go back to grounding it by giving the characters more substance. You know, the wife, Kelly Morgan, she could have been offered more dimension. She just became, Hey, I'm that dutiful wife in the background and I've, I've neglected myself and everything I'm going to say is exactly what you think my archetypal character will say. And also maybe this is me growing up in Western Sydney and me. You know, not being able to, you know, come together harmoniously across different classes. You saw the area that we're living in yet. No spoiler, but it got to a point where, you know, Kelly's trying to rebuild her life. And I'm like, bruh, why are you on Seek or for our international friends and lovers?

52:00KT: Why are you on job adverts? The area you live in, you'll find a job. Don't you worry. Acting like experience matters in those areas. Really?

52:14KT: And also while we're here, while we're here, Paige wearing that ACAB shirt, I'm like, okay, cool. She said a lot of like Insta friendly sort of sound bites and that sort of thing. Cool. But I don't know. I start to question your ACAB shirt. If you look like you will cross the road as well.

52:30Oti: Ha! Ha ha ha ha! Wow.

52:33KT: I'm not saying you would call the cops, but I'm like, if, if you look like you would cross the road, even in daylight,

52:40Oti: Wow.

52:43KT: if you keep a list of people that frequent your area.

52:50Oti: Coming for people today. Yeah. Aren't you?

52:52KT: just, no, but she, no, but I'm saying if we're talking about characters that didn't have as much dimension, it was Paige because she just said, but again, maybe, maybe there are characters like, well, people like Paige in real life that talk like that. Um, and also the mother as well. What did you think about, and we don't need to spoil it, but what do you think about the son Sam storyline?

53:16Oti: I expected more from it from an emotional point of view.

53:19KT: It did. It did. And

53:25Oti: that I wanted them to really delve into that. Yeah. Because then I think it not only changes the trajectory of what this movie is, I think it heightens it to a point where... It gives more nuance. And maybe something a little bit extra to, you know, not only the dad, but maybe even to the mom, because the mom felt like a side character. Like an NPC, fucking N

53:57KT: NPC

53:57Oti: there you, yeah. Jinx She felt like an NPC even up until the end. Even when everything is, you know, even at the, at the, at the tail end of it all with, with all the conflict and the resolutions of it. It still didn't feel as powerful as it could have been. She still just felt like a NPC that ate a mushroom, you know, like, Oh, wow.

54:20KT: you know? but overall,

54:26Oti: it's, it's, it's a really enjoyable movie. I think.

54:36KT: Even when Sam was like, let me put the real quick, he wouldn't even know what to do with it.

54:42Oti: Real. Man, incels unite. Whoa.

54:47KT: in all your incel forms. You can't teach people how to eat a pussy, bruh,

54:52Oti: Bruh. I need

54:55KT: need to go down on those peaches, friends and

54:57Oti: on

54:58KT: it's like what you don't even know what you're doing. Shut up.

55:02Oti: Bruh.

55:13KT: let my dad hate and not me, bruh. that is not Like it feels like it was a lot of fun to make this film being like, Oh, let's try this. Let's throw this in, this will be really cool to shoot. Right. Um, I guess I would just say maybe there could be some refinement just so we can anchor our heart feelings into the characters.

55:46Oti: Yeah. Fuck this, man. But, yeah, I think it was really fun watching this though. Um, it really had some really cool hijinx moments. And I don't think I've seen most of the actors as well, but kudos to their performances.

56:07KT: Um, you know, interestingly, I already referenced Visitor Q. Takashi Miike's, um, undoubtedly masterpiece in the For Your Reference household. Um, but I would say, you know, there's definitely a space where it is possible to have films with a dysfunctional fucking family. Mm hmm. Um, and have it, have there be interconnectedness and have there be wholly satisfying climaxes, if you'll pardon the pun, if you're nasty. Um, and I did think of that while I was watching this film and I'm very excited to see, um, you know, what Dane and the rest of, um, 2C productions, um, have going on. But yeah, you're right. It was definitely an interesting, enjoyable watch.

56:57Oti: A hundred percent.

56:59KT: Also friends and lovers, we didn't mention pretty much everything we've covered today, um, is currently available or is also in cinemas, um, at the moment, but that's us this week. Um, if you want to continue the conversation on Twitter, Instagram, Spill and Bluesky, we're at 4UF1. We're

57:16Oti: Oh, you can write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

57:20KT: also on every other podcast, but as well as Fountain Podcast. If you'd like to leave a rating and review, and we'll see you guys next week.

57:28Oti: See y'all.

57:29KT: Bye.