Sapphires – Rhythm Nation

Full transcript of Sapphires – Rhythm Nation.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household. It's another day in the colony said by a settler. Um, and also another opportunity to stand in solidarity with our First Nations fam, friends and lovers. If you have been a purveyor of the For Your Reference podcast, um, you should be aware every year we do an episode on January 26, otherwise known as Invasion Day, um, we're going to play a clip.

0:28KT: Um, that we usually play at the start of all of these episodes, but before doing that, um, you know, there's many things that we can do as non Indigenous people on stolen land, um, including talking to our workplaces about a reconciliation action plan, um, also in regards to procurement with working with Supply Nation, um, and you also as an individual.

0:51KT: Can pay the rent either through the organization, Pay The Rent, um, or also through organizations that I will also put in the show notes. Let's get on with the show.

1:02KT: I was born in so called Australia and raised on Dharug land, but it does not belong to me or my people. Being 'Australian' needs to include understanding the history of Indigenous people. Stolen land, excluded in the constitution, the Stolen Generation, hundreds of deaths in custody and lack of education in schools needs to be acknowledged so we can move forward.

1:24KT: January 26 or any date. Is never a date to celebrate because it ignores the pain and voices of Indigenous people. We need to face the atrocities of our past. If we want to truly be the amazing country, many tend to vocalize. For those that are unfamiliar, feel free to do a Google search. Cause it was more of an education than I received in my schooling.

1:46KT: Warning to our Indigenous friends and lovers with the format of podcasts, actors on screen and discussed may have passed away at the time of your listening. Always was. Always will be Aboriginal land. Hey friends and non celebrating genocide, friends and lovers.

2:07KT: Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You've got your host KT and Oti.

2:12KT: Run away to the big city for your chance to make it big. Find joy and fall in love through the very real pain in this country's history. Harmonize with The Sapphires this week. Mm hmm. Woo hoo hoo. Can we get a country yee haw?

2:32Oti: I'll give you a soulful yee haw.

2:34KT: Or can we get a Key & Peele? I think we all know what we're talking about.

2:41KT: Um, again, friends and lovers, while we're here, we do celebrate, um, our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander fam. Um, all around every day and every year. But in regards to these episodes, we do have Mystery Road, Redfern Now. And last year we did Richard Bell's documentary, You Can Go Now. Um, so this is, I think this is one of the more lighter.

3:05KT: Um, sort of offerings. And we also have Total Control, which we're currently watching at the moment. And I'm very excited, um, to talk about it and fight the previous white woman, ex prime minister. Um, which very beautifully takes us into the stats and general information. The Sapphires was released in 2012.

3:27KT: And the tie in with Total Control is that we have director Wayne Blair. Actor, director, everything intergalactic, extraordinaire, Wayne Blair. Um, he has also been in Mystery Road, which we've also covered as well. And Black Comedy, which obviously one day, but we've referenced it constantly. Write up your slots.

3:50KT: Um, in regards to the writer, we have one of the sons, um, from who the women are based off of, uh, Tony Briggs, who is also an actor, writer, producer, um, also has a presence on stage. And for us in the For Your Reference household, we most recently saw him in Eric Bana's sequel Force of Nature: The Dry 2, um, and also credited as writing.

4:15KT: We have Keith Thompson. We have a stack stack, stack, stack cast friends and lovers. Um, even if you just listen to our podcast, we have some returning legends. Uh, Deborah Mailman, Shari Sebbens, Jessica Mauboy is the voice. In this film as well, Miranda Tapsell, I guess Chris O'Dowd, um, and shout out to Tory Kittles as well.

4:41KT: Meyne Wyatt. We also saw, um, yeah, and I think in the background we saw Rob Collins as well. Um, I think I'm just honed into my Total Control, um, radar, but there's definitely a lot to discuss. There's a lot of joy if we want to go there, there's a lot of pain if we want to go there. Um, and perhaps there may be some critiquing if, if we decide to go there as well.

5:04KT: But, um, Oti, let's start off with our first impressions. Kick us off with your thoughts. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, Sapphire, Sapphire, Sapphire.

5:14Oti: I heard it as a heartwarming blend of light and shadow, beautifully juxtaposing joyous-soulful music with the era's stark realities.

5:24KT: Nice. Okay. I thought you said Latin shadows.

5:28KT: Oh,

5:29Oti: I could walk to

5:32KT: live in the lead, uh, uh, Sapphire Lurker, I guess. Um, The Sapphires is a solid entry into Indigenous cinema from so called Australia.

5:42KT: There is a considered balance to addressing topics like the Stolen Generation with the levity of music, love and family.

5:53KT: We have some themes, we have some themes, but do you have any just sort of general feelings and thoughts before we get into it?

6:00Oti: I didn't know what to expect from the movie. Right? Um, yeah, it's been on our playlist for the longest and it's something I've been meaning to watch. It is a lighthearted movie and um, they cover the sort of dark stuff a little bit too lightly, I guess.

6:16KT: I, yeah, no, I, I definitely. Agree with that for a film that has a political context, it's not very political because there's a lot of things that they put in there, uh, including wild events, you know, things that are happening in America to, um, Tory Kittles who plays Robbie because he had his Furious, um, moment he did.

6:37KT: He had his hotep Furious. That's a Boyz n the Hood reference. But he did have a moment of like, I'm fighting. He didn't say I'm fighting a white man's war as a black man, but he w he kind of had that sentiment, but then he used it to get them to sing and perform for the soldiers. And I was like, Oh man, I was like, we were almost there, but I absolutely agree with you.

7:00KT: Um, and I think also at the same time. Like it's a creative choice, I guess. Um, because the climate was the climate at the time. So I don't think that's necessarily what the qualm is. I think it was just in context on balance of what was going on. I mean, storyline wise, not like history wise. Um, but I absolutely agree with you.

7:24KT: Um, I, I definitely want to, um, talk about it in more detail, but I will briefly say.

7:31KT: Um, I really loved hearing Jessica Mauboy sing. I think there was, even the way that the music was cut, it was still done in a way where we could still feel the raw emotion. Um, I think it just happens to be the way that the timelines and ancestors are aligning, but we did recently watch the, um, new imagining of The Color Purple.

7:58KT: Um, and we'll talk about the music there as well. So it was interesting to recently watch The Color Purple and then watch this in the way that musical is a vehicle to, um, the storyline and that sort of thing. So Jessica Mauboy and, uh, you know, for those that aren't aware, you know, she is embedded in not only the music scene, but on Australian screens, like The Voice Australia, um, counterpart as well.

8:25KT: Right. So it's just. It just gets like, it just got to me and I just loved hearing it. Um, and you know, all, there's no, there's no point hiding or pussyfooting around it.

8:37KT: We do have white savior and we're going to get to that. Um, but before we even get to there, what I wanted to start off with was the title card.

8:47KT: Um. That we had at the start, the intro cards, because I want to ask this, but not specifically for now, I was wondering what the intended or who the intended audience was, um, but then also, you know, also in the intro that I mentioned as well, like, We don't get a lot of, um, real truth telling in the Australian education system.

9:13KT: So you could even say that this is for Australians, but Australians might not even know, um, about the lack of human rights, you know, the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people had.

9:24KT: Um, but I thought it was an interesting creative choice to have those intro cards at the start. Um, and, and I'm, I maybe wonder if that was potentially for like.

9:36KT: Um, an international audience. Yeah,

9:40Oti: a hundred percent. You can tell that this has a global appeal to it or a global, um, reach to it. Um, and yes, not everyone is aware of what's happening or what happened in Australia.

9:54KT: Um,

10:00Oti: so yes, there is that lens to it. Um, you could tell as well, the production value of this.

10:07Oti: Yeah. Dispense a moolah on it.

10:10KT: Yeah. It's giving Bluey a run for its money.

10:16KT: There was definitely a lot of production. The only reason why I asked that is because we've said spoilers already. They actually didn't do, they didn't do what you would usually see. And maybe it was because of who had the pen and who had the lens. But usually when we're covering or where the lens is on, you know, Indigenous stories or Indigenous characters, you get that full on trauma right at the start, right?

10:46KT: There were definitely moments that would take you back, especially from like an international point of view, but we didn't really have that. Connecting scene that, you know, spoke to why the young girls are the way they are like, especially Gail in particular, they didn't have that, like ripping children away until like near the end of the film.

11:06KT: So that's what I was thinking. Maybe those intro cards are just to explain that because we're going to get to that later.

11:15Oti: Yes. I think, I think fundamentally it's, it could be both. It could be to inform the audience of the state of war. Um, what's happening and also as a vehicle to help throughout the story, especially in explaining Gail's character.

11:32Oti: Yeah. But throughout the movie, I felt they explained why Gail was like that and herself and why she had even problems with Kay.

11:42KT: Yeah. Which we'll come to. Absolutely. Actually, I think let's, let's actually get it, get to it now. Um, Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, you know, friends and lovers, again, I am aware that, you know, we have a lot of friends and lovers that aren't in so called Australia.

11:56KT: Um, so I guess just to give a sort of context, we've also given context in our other, um, episodes as well. Um. It's not similar to, but the reference point will be like reservations, um, in America. Um, but also at the same time, Australia doesn't have a treaty as well. So it's not the same, but in the context of the film, um, you know.

12:19KT: Kids that could potentially, um, be passed off as white or, um, you know, I think it was even mentioned in Rabbit-Proof Fence by Kenneth Branagh's character, like breeding, breeding the black out of them and keeping the white in them. Um. Um, for the fairer skin sort of kids were taken and being put into missions to be taught the white way or to be subservient sort of roles, um, and that sort of thing.

12:45KT: And even if we're not talking about the Stolen Generation, the impacts of that are still being felt today. Young Indigenous kids are still being forcibly removed from their homes. Um, and obviously there is a complexity to that history. Um, and The Sapphires. Kind of personifies that in the character of Kay.

13:08KT: And, you know, we kind of see it, you know, later on in the film with Robbie as well. And I do want to talk about, I guess, the, um, Fred Hampton Rainbow Coalition of it all of the. The understanding of blackness and solidarity and collective liberation and, you know, how you can have a light skinned black fella.

13:31KT: And I think she even said it, um, in the film as well. And we have, you know, the very real conflict and I do want to talk about it. I want to talk about it in layers. And even when I'm watching it, you reassured me that we're talking about the characters because never, ever, ever friends and lovers in any format, even in a deep fake AI world, will you hear me saying anything terribly about Deborah Mailman?

13:59KT: I have a lot of things to say when Chris O'Dowd was kissing her, but in regards to her specifically, you're not going to have me saying anything badly, but, um, I want to talk about Kay and Gail's relationship. And I guess for me, it's also an extra layer because, you know, you weren't born and raised in this country as well.

14:19KT: So there's a, there's a different sort of perspective that you can bring into this.

14:23KT: So, you know, for Kay. That didn't have a choice, right? Gail was able to successfully hide her, but because she got sick and she went to the hospital, I E the white systems, they forcibly removed her. Right. So she didn't have a choice.

14:43KT: She was, she was being indoctrinated, especially the way that they needed her to be indoctrinated. And then when her mother passed away and they let her come back, well, even I, when she made that comment of just like trying to, I guess, like primitize, like her own people, I just, I found it really, really hard.

15:11KT: To grapple with that, right? So I kind of understood where Gail was coming from, but then there was no, I guess, grace or compassion from Gail's point of view that Kay didn't have a choice at all. So there's just, there's a lot of complexity wrapped up in that, and I just want to hear your thoughts.

15:33Oti: No, I could get, I could get why Gail was angry, but the thing she said before the reasoning just didn't seem right.

15:45Oti: It felt a lot of it was being pointed at Kay, who had no, she was removed as a kid and she wasn't allowed to come back only after the mother died and just for a few minutes. It's hard to put any sort of blame on her and her behavior, especially after everything she had to go through because they don't show that they don't show that they don't show what happened behind the curtains.

16:14Oti: So whatever Kay went through, we don't know, but she came back a different person

16:22KT: who said as a means of survival, because it's one of those things you do what you need to do to navigate these colonial systems. But you don't have to ride it so much. Oof. And that's just a general statement. You don't have to ride it, bro.

16:40Oti: Trauma, bruv. It's, it's, it's, it's all in the psyche, isn't it? You're told you're not good enough for whatever reason you need to behave like this. And she

16:51KT: was a kid. She was a kid. We need to give grace. She was a kid. You know, um, so, but you can't tell me you felt an immediate shiver down your spine.

17:05Oti: No, I just felt it was, it was especially the slap. I was like, come on. I said, when Kay, when Kay slapped Gail, I was like, okay, that's warranted.

17:14KT: Character. We're talking about characters. Okay. Cause I'm going to fight you in a second.

17:19Oti: When Gail returned it, I was like, come on now.

17:23KT: No, it was just like a residual leftover action.

17:29Oti: Oh fair. What did you think about the whole situation?

17:34KT: I, I think, I think the, the, the best ways to You know, play out dynamics between characters, even through, um, complex circumstances as we have between Gail and Kay is to show all dimension, but to show all dimension makes it very difficult to villainize one or the other.

17:57KT: I think you've got your villain, but for me, I feel like there's a lot of hurt on both sides and it's more, where is the hurt coming from? That's where the focus should be. Oh, yeah. A hundred. And I'm not even believing No, I'm talking about, I'm talking about Dave Lovelace. Ah! He's the record label in the motherfucking establishment.

18:20KT: You know when Tupac said, fuck your bitch, he was talking about Dave Lovelace.

18:27Oti: Yeah. It is tough, especially when Gail had to, you know, she was the older sister. She had to look after the younger kids.

18:37KT: No one really talks about like having to take care of kids because you're the older kid. Says both of the babies of the family.

18:46Oti: I took care of myself.

18:51KT: You did that all by yourself. Oh,

18:54Oti: Jalapery, contact

18:56KT: me for those, man. Yeah, I think you've missed out. I think, well, maybe contact 50 Cent since he's got his own studio now. Um, but yeah, I just, I love that there was the presence of addressing, um, the Stolen Generation in what happens after and the fallout of it, but it is interesting in the way that we both agree that the film in general wasn't exploring everything to the nth degree, which again might not necessarily be a bad thing, but we'll come to other moments where perhaps it could have been explored, um, a little bit better.

19:38KT: I think we should reward our friends and lovers. Uh, for sticking by us, let's just get to the white saviour of it all, Oti. Um, again, it might just be because we recently watched Next Goal Wins, but I couldn't help but think about that film watching this. And what I mean by that is, is the most frustrating part of this film.

20:03KT: Was watching Dave Lovelace like cosplay as a black man, like he was more offensive than, um, Michael Scott doing the Chris Rock impression. Oh, no, like, like telling Daryl, um, never touch a black man's radio. Um, there was also a line in this film that I think really took us back and we're like, how the fuck did it get in here?

20:34Oti: Uh,

20:34KT: him being, he was giving himself the one drop rule.

20:36Oti: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, 2012 wasn't so long ago. I was going to say it was a different time.

20:47KT: Well, I, I, I guess what I can say is that. Having, um, Tony Briggs, you know, pen the film, as well as Wayne Blair, write the film. And I would hope that this country was progressed enough in the 2012, um, set to make it culturally safe for everyone. It's that thing of like I can imagine a fucking white man being like this, but then also I don't want to have to watch this.

21:18KT: You know what I mean? It's like the balance between that. How did you feel about Dave Jake Sully Lovelace bringing soul to these Aboriginal people? I also didn't like the way he said Aboriginal. Ha ha!

21:36Oti: Oh yeah, it was he, yeah. If, if I was to read this script, I would think Chris was, or Dave was, a black man.

21:48Oti: Any other way

21:48KT: Oh sorry, so this white man just walked into the audition? It seems like

21:53Oti: it. Maybe Tory Kittles was supposed to be this character. And Chris O'Dowd walked in. Bam! Hit it. Uh, regardless.

22:02KT: Uh, yeah. I think you're onto something though. No, but like, you could imagine. You could imagine a white man schlupping around.

22:10KT: In the 60s being like He had the soul in him. How embarrassing. I Like, I literally wanted to crawl up inside of my pussy and disappear. It was very I was very uncomfortable. Yeah, he

22:21Oti: They leaned into into that too hard.

22:24KT: You know why I couldn't crawl up into my pussy? Mm. Because it was dry as fuck because he kept singing.

22:29KT: Heh heh

22:30Oti: heh! Yeah. Oh, then again. Bringing soul to black people, eh? Gotta love Sia.

22:41KT: And then, cause you knew, and we haven't even talked about Cynthia and Julie, but Cynthia, Julie, and Kay, they had very succinct storylines for themselves. Yeah. Gail didn't necessarily outside of the vestiges of being like the older responsible one.

22:59KT: And I was like, they better not don't they dare put those two together. Oh, you,

23:05Oti: you knew it was going to happen.

23:06KT: It was embarrassing.

23:08Oti: Gail was giving Dave googly eyes from the first scene.

23:13KT: Yeah. Great acting and what? What? Knew it was going to happen.

23:22KT: Oh man. And you know, it wasn't the scope of the film. And again, any sort of qualms I have isn't about this. This is more of a me thing. And I, I concede and I acknowledge that. But to have the context of, you know, like young Aboriginal girls going to entertain those that are fighting a war that was never for us, with allies that were never for Indigenous people, it was very, like, I felt a bit of a conflict and I had to keep telling myself, Because movie like this movie, isn't that just, let's just keep moving.

24:04KT: Let's just keep moving. But I found it hard to, um, I found it hard to reconcile that.

24:12Oti: I see that. And it's again, like you called out, Myron said the same thing. Black people in Vietnam fighting a war while at home, they are not free. Fighting a war they had nothing to do with, you know, it's a lot of that shit that happens.

24:31KT: So I love how you were spreading your arms, you know, in the sermon, just like Myron was too. It must just be innately built in, you know?

24:41Oti: Yeah, it is. Got that from Dave.

24:46KT: Oh, fuck off.

24:49KT: Um, yeah, I, cause you know what the thing is. I don't think, like, compared to like, Next Goal Wins, where you have Michael Fassbender's character that is very much very one dimensional.

25:02KT: My qualm with Dave wasn't that he was one dimensional, because I think he moved in ways that a lot of us have encountered in some shape or form. Whether it's in corporate spaces, in entertainment, or just out in the wild, yeah? But yeah, did you think it was so easy for his family, like for Gail's family to accept him though?

25:26KT: Or that's what, that's what this film wasn't about?

25:29Oti: It wasn't about that, but I didn't even feel like there was any reason not to. They pretty much gave him permission to go with the sisters right off the bat. Like, I don't know, there didn't seem to be any hesitation.

25:44KT: But that goes in part to what I was saying, that didn't seem to like everything.

25:48KT: It was just like a walkthrough checkpoint. Yeah.

25:52Oti: And I have problems at the airport bigger than that, bro.

25:58KT: Then why didn't you audition as a white man then?

26:01Oti: I'm trying.

26:03KT: You're gaming it wrong.

26:08KT: Just tell them you're going to the line that they're not supposed to do random explosive checks on.

26:16KT: Um, the next thing that I want to go to, uh, in this film is the music. Cause we haven't really spoken about the music at all. Um, I guess it makes sense that a lot of the songs that people would be doing, like, unless you're Cher, like singing your own songs, Turn Back Time.

26:35KT: Like, I think it makes sense that there was singing a lot of covers, but they were really leaning on the black soul aesthetic.

26:42Oti: Hey. They're singing to American troops, so give them what they know.

26:49KT: So are they singing Miley Cyrus now?

26:52Oti: I wouldn't doubt it.

26:57Oti: No, but it does make sense to, you know, if they're leaning into soul to sing. The biggest hits. So I didn't have qualms with it.

27:07KT: I didn't say I had qualms. I was just observing. Yep. I didn't have issues. I, okay. Erty

27:14Oti: Lovelace again, Julie, Jessica Mauboy, bloody hell. She can sing. She, how good. Oh, I think one of the most interesting thing was, was when you mentioned while you're watching it, was you wish those.

27:32Oti: I'm. Someone as strong as Julie in the group.

27:36KT: Wow. You're going to drag me.

27:38Oti: Hey, I'm just saying, cause it's true. Like she was a standout. She was

27:43KT: really good. I think they needed more than one singer and that's not disrespect to the cast. Cause I actually don't know, but I feel like with the decades of career that they've had, I feel like I would have known by now that they.

28:00KT: Can sang sang. Um, cause I, yeah, I don't even know if they use the same singer for the three of them.

28:08Oti: Yeah, but the girl needed to be told. Ain't no one coming to see you, Otis.

28:16KT: Mark it off your bingo cards, friends and lovers. I thought I would be the one to say it, but there you go. The real Otis. The real Otis knows who the David Ruffin is. They're coming to see me. Um, but yeah, I just, like, I feel like it could have benefited from, cause it felt like Jessica Mauboy and The Sapphires, which because movie, when you have great songs, like I will get swept up in it, but I wanted to float away a little bit more.

28:53KT: Yeah. Do you feel the same way? Cause you didn't say how you felt.

28:57Oti: No, uh, pretty much. I think I was just lost in Jessica Mauboy's voice that everything else just didn't really bother me that much.

29:05KT: Right. She's just got that voice. Um, I would say, I wouldn't say this film's a musical. Would you?

29:15Oti: No, not really.

29:17Oti: No,

29:18KT: but I think it works in its favor. Because we still have, like, we still have storylines that we can focus on.

29:26KT: We haven't really talked about Cynthia's character at all. Why didn't anyone know? I think you're right. I think Gail had, had to be told that no one's coming for her Otis. But I think Cynthia was more like a Michelle Williams.

29:42KT: Oh, no. Cause Michelle didn't have an ego, but I'm just, do you understand the comparison? No, maybe even a Kelly Rowland.

29:50Oti: Ah, ah, Kelly Rowland was a star.

29:53KT: So tell me. Yeah, Kelly Rowland is a star for Tyler Perry. I'm sorry. You didn't get the role.

30:00Oti: Uh, um, Cynthia's character.

30:05KT: Well, I don't, I think, I think of them. She probably had the least to mention.

30:12Oti: She did.

30:15KT: She was like the thrill seeker of them.

30:18Oti: Yeah, because everything, every time. You know, we're talking about Cynthia. It's either crying about Jimmy or being with Hendo.

30:28KT: Hendo, Hendo, Hendo. Oh,

30:31Oti: wow.

30:34KT: This is a cross cultural black experience, isn't it?

30:38Oti: Yeah, Redman will be proud.

30:42KT: Yeah. Like, I don't think there's anything wrong with having a character that is potentially a bit more vapid. Like, I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but she didn't really have much to chew on, even though she had more, if you count bullet points. Character wise.

30:59Oti: Yeah, I agree with you, um,

31:01KT: She just needed to know that she wasn't the one.

31:05Oti: She wasn't, she knew she wasn't the one though.

31:08KT: Do you think deep down she knew?

31:09Oti: Yeah, she wasn't claiming to, to the lead as Gail was.

31:14KT: That's why she was doing her antics, you think, to get more attention?

31:20Oti: Yeah, she just wants the fame that comes along, you know?

31:23KT: Maybe more of an all round performer as opposed to being a singer. Mm. Um, I know we've talked about Kay and Gail, but I want to talk about Kay and Robbie. For a second.

31:35KT: Um, and it will also bring me to, I guess, a different layers of the black experience, um, which we'll come to, but let's focus on Kay and Robbie.

31:46KT: And again, it takes us back to the scene with Gail and Kay. Because in what was a post slap I'm not sure whether it was pre or post slap. Um, but Gail said, no, it was about asking her whether she's, she's black now or whether she's white. Um, which friends and lovers don't try this at home because it's very, it's very not up to you, especially non Indigenous people to qualify that.

32:13KT: Um, but it was in that moment and Kay's like, I know who I am. And it's like, go off sis, good for you. But then Gail was like, but does Robbie know you're white? Or you're not white.

32:27Oti: No, that was Robbie. Not your wife. She was fully leaning into.

32:30KT: Okay. Okay. Stop villainizing my gal, but I just want to come to that back to the sort of relationship that Kay and Robbie had.

32:42KT: Cause I think initially when he first saw her, he thought he, she was white.

32:46Oti: I didn't get any inkling he thought she was white in any way.

32:50KT: Oh, fuck off you. Before you came to this country, I was white to you. Until you came in, you saw the way white people looked and talked to me.

33:00Oti: I still, within the frame of this movie, I didn't feel that Robbie felt that Kay was any other way and he didn't even seem to care.

33:18KT: He didn't seem to care or because movie because they weren't going to go there.

33:27Oti: He didn't seem to care even when Kay was like, I am black. Robbie was like, Hmm.

33:34KT: Cause he got that dog in him. He wasn't listening to what she was saying.

33:41KT: He was wanting to get down and dirty. He was not paying attention to anything she was saying. Um, but this comes to what I, again, like, I don't think the film needed to address it, but it did leave some questions for me. Um, because again, growing up in Western Sydney, um, you know, there's so many like richness and texture and culture.

34:09KT: I really hate the term melting pot. Um, but you know, one of the most multicultural, if not the, I don't know about it now, but at the time of me going to high school, it was the most multicultural suburb in Australia. Blacktown represent. Wow. So we've got my government name. And where I grew up. Wow. Well, I guess we were always destined to be together, weren't you?

34:38KT: It hit you off.

34:41Oti: Ah, inception drama.

34:43KT: You got that second wind. Clearly. Friends and lovers, if you're going to satisfy, do it on a one, two tap a, um, but the reason why I say that is because there is an acknowledgement of community and like collective community, collective liberation. And, you know, so many times on the podcast, I've talked about, you know, having.

35:13KT: Friends and lovers from all around in different cultures, including blackfellas, right? So, To acknowledge each other is to understand the struggle and to work towards our collective liberation. So, I'm, I am saying what I'm about to say with this frame of reference. This film didn't necessarily make it clear what the connection is between Aboriginal people and Black Americans.

35:44KT: Even though to me, again, it is, it is a shared work towards a collective goal. Um, in, in real life and in every other instance, but in this film, when they had the footage, cause I just assumed it was JFK, they had the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. Um, playing and people reacting, um, you know, in Aboriginal communities and that sort of thing.

36:10KT: And I know how meaningful and how sorrowful and how painful that was. But in this film, not necessarily so. Thoughts, feelings?

36:26Oti: Yeah. I guess they didn't show the emotion around what that announcement was like, or. Um, the gravity of it, it wasn't felt in that way. It's

36:41KT: like it had to be felt there, but it wasn't worked up to, to get there.

36:45Oti: It felt out of place a little bit, to be honest. Um, and then I think that's when we get Myron saying everything about how the black troops need more.

36:55KT: It was his One Night in Miami, Furious speech. Yeah.

36:59Oti: Um, so I could see it being used as a vehicle to get to that point, but it still felt weird in this movie.

37:09KT: It felt weird because even, because there's, there's that sort of like, um, kinship, right? But you didn't even feel that with, um, Robbie, which is interesting because, you know, it's just, again, it's just like being with your people. Right. Being with blackfellas, being with all different types of black people.

37:31KT: Like it's with your people. And it's so innately natural. It's, it's so weird that it didn't work in this film. Right.

37:41Oti: We were watching The Wonder Years, and they did, they, they covered that announcement and we showed, they showed us the effect of it. Yeah. And it's a sitcom. And I felt like they brought that even more again.

37:58Oti: It had, I see why they did it. I think the execution wasn't just great.

38:05KT: Yeah, I think there was work to be done before that scene. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and while we're here, friends and lovers, support black shows. Um, you know, we got really sad with The Wonder Years cause we could feel that the show was ending even before there was announcement.

38:22KT: Like if you're watching like the final season and the final, like the finale. You could feel that the show was ending. Um, and it's such a great show. And it's, it's a rare show that you have for like all different ages, but it's still able to address it because when you have experiences that are outside of the mainstream history taught in schools, then you're going to have.

38:48KT: That fragmented, um, sort of mirror of the national sort of identity and yeah, love, love, love The Wonder Years. And you're absolutely right. It, it did it in a way that made sense. Um, again, like I, I grapple with it because. The film didn't need to do that, but by introducing the possibility of addressing it and not delivering, it does make it a bit difficult to get to where we need to go.

39:16KT: Oh yeah. Cause it was really like, this is the emotional moment right now. Hmm.

39:23Oti: Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you. I agree with you, but I think if you zoom out a bit more than it feels like it wasn't the place for it. Okay. Um, that it turns this movie into something different.

39:40KT: Yeah, again, and that's why I was saying like, I'm grappling with, I guess what, what I see and anticipate might be addressed and what doesn't get addressed, but it's not a knock on the film at all.

39:56KT: Any closing thoughts, Oti?

39:59Oti: Oh, it was just good seeing, uh, Deborah Mailman doing her thing. She's always great.

40:08KT: Um, we remember you called her Otis. You can't come back. Hot character. No, you can't come back now. Oh, what did, what did, um, Dave say to her, like your mouth on legs and your pessimistic old witch or something, something like that.

40:28KT: And I'm like, well, with them sugar tits, sweet tits, sweet tits, stevia tits.

40:35Oti: Ah. Hmm.

40:39KT: Ooh, hoo, hoo. Thank you, friends and lovers. Uh, it was interesting because this is one of the lighter, um, TV and film and yeah, it was interesting in the discussions that, um, we ended up having, um, You know, but I think we've discovered through Oti calling Deborah Mailman, um, Otis and through Oti revealing where I was from and making a very funny joke as a, as a nice, delicious callback.

41:11KT: I think we can safely say that Oti is the opps. Um, or at least the Dave Lovelace. We're going to finish off in a segment. We call For Your Reference. Oti?

41:25Oti: I'm going to reference The Temptations. It's a hell of a watch. It's long as, but it's enjoyable throughout.

41:35KT: I love it. It's my go to when I'm feeling a little bit sad.

41:40KT: Um, I'm going to pick up off of your reference. The Wonder Years.

41:45Oti: Oh, Laura Kariuki,

41:46KT: whoo, whoo, boy, you just named the Kenyan actress. I did exactly boy. Hey,

41:58KT: um, if you would like to play, um, which. Actress is the Kenyan actress with Oti on Twitter, Instagram, Spill, Bluesky, and TikTok. We're @ForYourRefPod.

42:08Oti: Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

42:11KT: We're also on hotties don't celebrate genocide on any day podcast. If you love to leave a rating and review, and we'll see you guys next week.

42:22KT: See ya. Bye.