Romeo Must Die – Mr. & Mrs. Simp
Hosted by
KT & Oti
Show Notes
Cue the music for a fight sequence where we will take bets, sign bulletproof paperwork and order fried rice, to throw. Enter the Holy Trinity Confession with Romeo Must Die this week. Quid Pro Mo brought to you by Gateleapers.
Episode Details
- Duration
- 0:00
- Released
- June 14, 2022
- Category
- Episode
- Hosts
Transcript
Transcript (6,671 words)
Full transcript of Romeo Must Die – Mr. & Mrs. Simp.
KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and we have another delectable Quid Pro Mo brought to you by Gateleapers. Matt, Audra, and Jason, the holy trinity of all good things podcasting, if you're nasty. The most notable, I would I did promise Matt that I would do a Bretonnian accent, and I'm pretty sure I did better than Oscar Isaac in Moon Knight.
KT: But that is a great segue to say if you are a lover, if you are a friend and lover, if you'll pardon the pun, of all of the fandoms around the town, you might also be familiar with the Twilight episode that I did on Gateleapers. It is a beautiful sumptuous time. Oti and I, the one two punch of the For Your Reference podcast, did some lovely daddy succession unravelings
KT: in that particular episode. Go and check it out. It's currently on their feed. Details will be on their show notes. We just got a cameo of Theo breathing into the mic. It's all falling apart. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and hip hop lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT.
Oti: And Oti.
KT: Cue the music for a fight sequence where we will take bets, sign bulletproof paperwork, and order fried rice to throw. Enter the Holy Trinity Confession with Romeo Must Die this week.
Oti: Woo hoo hoo.
KT: Off the top, rest in love and peace and power, Aaliyah and DMX. In regards to general stats and information, but most importantly, this is the first fucking Jet Li on this fucking podcast. It is
KT: What took us so long, Oti?
Oti: What? I have no idea. I really don't. I think it just took so long to go through a lot of the stuff that we loved.
KT: I am a late in life Jet Li fan girl. Can I just say? So I I don't get the first impressions, but it's wild. It's wild. Okay. Okay. Okay. We're getting super nasty. Let's just get into general stats and information. This film, friends and lovers of the For Your Reference Pod podcast, listenerdom. We talk a lot about the difference of film and movies, and this is absolutely a film. You non gendered film bros, come and fucking fight me. Released in March 2000, it had a budget of $25,000,000 and a worldwide gross of 91,000,000
KT: sweet sweet Sweet. Jet Li dollars. Mhmm. Better than Oti Dollar Eaters.
Oti: I don't know about that.
KT: In regards to cast, of course, Jet Li, rest in love and peace and power, Aaliyah, DMX, Isaiah Washington. May I just say he grew into his wonderful, beautiful face. Russell Wong, Delroy Lindo, as well as DB Woodside. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. I would say I have themes prepared, but it is literally just about wanting to hold gently on my bosoms. Wow. So at least two. Wow. Well, let's get into first impressions. I'm pretty sure this made quite a rotation in the Oti Kenyan shore households.
KT: So how did you feel about Romeo Must Die? And I guess now that you are a learned film podcast wanker of three years, how does it stack up if it does stack up today, my love? Actually,
Oti: No. It did make quite a bit of rotation when it came out. You know, it's fucking two thousands, mate. Wild. You had Aaliyah on there, and I think it's somewhere the soundtrack had to come out, and then there was so much hype. Yeah. I miss those days. You get so much hype off the music and then you're like, Jet Li, Aaliyah, what's not to fucking love? Yeah. DMX in DMX in there as well. Yeah. Oh, Delroy Lindo, Isaiah Washington. You know, they can sit on the sidelines for a bit. Yeah.
Oti: No. But it was all hype. It was all hype. I I think I want this movie a lot.
KT: More than Baby Boy?
Oti: A lot. Yeah. Probably.
KT: Go and check out our episode on Baby Boy Friends and Lovers.
KT: Also, Anthony Anderson, we didn't mention him. And I think he did take up space in a ridiculous and, I don't know, my 20 woke PC lens, he was saying some very annoying shit Yeah. To our wonderful, beautiful Han.
Oti: Yeah. He did. Watching this now felt so it it took me back. And I think regardless of how many times I've watched movies or current movies that I'm like, this is not great. Yeah. Nostalgia still comes and plays a big part when you watch this, at least for me.
KT: Really? Yeah. Because I don't have nostalgia, but it it held all of the candles. But you continue.
Oti: And and it's not even that like, I watched it and I felt like I hadn't watched it in so many years, which is true,
Oti: but it still felt fresh. It felt it felt fun. Yeah. Watching Jet Li take, like, the action sequence, it was also good.
KT: Riddle me this, Oti. How many backflips equal one kick, though? Like, I I love Jet Li, but, like, to get to that one kick, there were many backflips that needed to happen.
Oti: Well, yeah. And this is where I think if you if you'd used
Oti: an abacus, you know, growing up, you'd it'd come in handy right now.
KT: For our mathematical friends and lovers, we are still working on our abacus merch. Don't you worry.
Oti: But wow. I think I really had fun with this.
KT: So you enjoyed it back then and you still love it now?
Oti: Yeah. Well, what's not to love? It was it was very because, you know, Aaliyah seeing her on screen again, like I I must say, I got emotional what like, not every time she was on screen, but when you think about the the tragedy and the fact that she was so young and how sudden she passed away, it just I I just felt sad,
Oti: but it was lovely to watch her as well.
KT: It was. It was.
Oti: But I think it's it's one of those gems. I think it'll it'll probably be a repeat on the on the FYR household. Yeah. If I can get past Ving Oti Rhames' African squats,
KT: I'll find my my way over there. Absolutely. So, yeah, this was the first time I've ever watched Romeo Must Die. I unfortunately yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. You know, unfortunately, I do have a lot of gaps because before Oti came along, I was just watching 30 Rock and Miyazaki films in heavy rotation. So Like nothing else than distance. Sprinkle in some Colin Firth, and you've got a Splooshie weekend for me. But so I do have some gaps in my understanding of cinema
KT: in general. And, yes, I said it's a film. I said it's cinema. Come and fucking fight me. I will do all of the back flips and give you one deadly kick, friends and lovers. They call me Kangaroo KT Jack.
Oti: Oh, wow. Well, there's Anthony Anderson again.
KT: It is? Yes. It is. And I'm pretty sure he said some stereotypical Australian shit in there as well. Australian ish? Yeah. Sign me up networks cowards.
Oti: Wow. Good way to challenge. Yeah.
KT: I I I guess also in way of challenging, you know what I also tickles me? And I do know a majority of our friends and lovers are in The United States Of America, But it's funny how whenever it's America plus one country, it equals worldwide.
Oti: Yeah.
KT: And then also when they talk about, like, interracial relationships in cinema, it's white plus other.
Oti: Otherwise, it's just a fucking abomination. No one wants to see that, mate.
KT: We've shared many times how much we love the film Lovebirds, Ever Eternal, Issa Rae, go and check out all of the Insecure episodes we have. We didn't talk about it on the main podcast, but we did talk about Eternals. And we still don't understand even though we appreciate Kumail Nanjiani muscles, we still don't understand what all that was for. He did not need to get jacked for that movie at all. He absolutely did not. But I love that we're seeing different types of interracial love stories.
KT: But even then, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, cuckold, cuckold, cuckold, friend zone, friend zone, friend zone. Unfortunately, Han was friend zoned hard. Yeah. Enough to throw him back to, like
Oti: You were rooting for a rom com in he?
KT: I was really I was really hoping for it because Jet Li is so fucking charming and Aaliyah is so fucking effervescent. I just wanted to see him get together.
KT: Like, I was seeing less contact than a Korean drama. We got, like, a couple of hands on a shoulder and that was about it.
Oti: No. I've gotta stay true to myself. I usually go hard on saying, you don't need a love story in every movie. So I've gotta say kudos to them. We did not need that and I'm glad they didn't go the way that, oh, now Han and Trish need to get together. I'm good they're just friends. They just met.
KT: I'm not a screenwriter, but I'm going to bring it to justice. Only hot people can kiss. Okay? Like, all of you Argos and my fellow six out of tens, we just need to watch the hot people kiss. Okay? It's it's it's contractually obligated, non problematically, I am saying on the podcast, if I suit two hot people, they need to kiss. So I feel like I need to put you on zero now. Yeah. Do you wanna try? Happy pride month, Oti. Do the fucking work. Always. Well,
KT: we don't need to Google it now. I haven't necessarily watched it, but have you watched the Cinderella adaptation with Brandy?
Oti: No. No, have not watched that.
KT: I haven't watched it either, but we have Brandy and the prince is Asian. Right? And I think it might have come out around the same time. But the point is, let's continue to challenge cinema and let's continue to see all of the minorities, but I need to make it clear, only the hot minorities can kiss. Okay? Well, again, spoiler on my upcoming screenplay, but let's continue along.
KT: How who who do you think was the standout in this film?
Oti: Oh, I think I think it's it's it's gonna be Han, isn't it? He brings what Jet Li brings to all his movies. Babes, it is a Jet Li world and we're just living in it. It is. Do you have a contrary opinion?
KT: No. No. I don't. This is gonna be a very short episode. I just like, I I think we need to go down a a beautiful, lovely Jet Li degustation. I just think even if we just do it for our personal enjoyment, I would really love to just like, how does he stack up in regards to, like, martial artist slash actor?
Oti: He's right up there. Late nineties,
Oti: early two thousands, Jet Li. Fucking hell. He gave us so many movies.
KT: But are we saying untouchable or not?
Oti: Oh, he's bloody untouchable. Okay. Man, he he he's my go to for some fun times. Because back then you'd you'd have Jackie Chan, Jet Li, and you'd get the more sort of serious overtone stuff with Jet Li. And I just gravitated towards that so much. Yeah. More and wow. He did not disappoint. Everything he did was fucking gold to me.
KT: I just I'm I'm still cooling down from my sploosh session because there's something about Jet Li with a cigarette in his mouth that did things to me. Wow. And it will continue to keep me warm on many a winter night Oti.
Oti: Good to know.
KT: But let's talk about Han's character specifically.
KT: So let me get this right. Let me get this right. His dad is some sort of kingpin. Right? Right. And his dad, instead of deciding to face the music So Han decided to take the fall for the dad Uh-huh. Went to prison. And then they fucked off to America. And then they fucked off to America.
Oti: He was content in prison, you know, he just chilled.
KT: That is that is the most blunt way to say you're not the favorite kid. Yeah.
Oti: But the dad is fucking selfish and self serving. Yeah. And they just fucked off. Yeah. And Han was like content knowing that, oh, as long as dad is looking after brother Po, then it's all good.
KT: If I were to have one critique, I would break the fourth wall and say, where did Han get all of his prowess? Like, where did he all get all of his skilled sort of combat skills?
Oti: He had a life before going to jail.
KT: No. I get that. But I think because it's Jet Li, we just believe that he could fight like that. And he could escape prison at any time. No. Kai tells him, oh, I'm glad that prison didn't make you soft like me. Yeah. What is that?
KT: Kai would not survive. He would be he wouldn't even be an extra on Oz.
Oti: No. He's a he's a good fighter. Kai would. He's he's he's a badass. He's just a terrible one liner. Yeah.
Oti: So you you can tell that they're they're they both have the same sort of low level of prowess, Han sort of edging him a bit, but you can't you can't take take down Kai like that. You reckon? Yeah. There was quite a sustained fight. Me? Fried the Hans' hands.
KT: Yeah. A double hand job. Oh, wow. You're welcome. It's the For Your Reference podcast, motherfuckers. Something I really enjoyed about this film is, you know, you you kind of need to inform what the tone will be in regards to a film just so we know if we're really going to go all the way ridiculous. And I think the the fact that they had enough substance from, like, a storyline point of view, I think that really kept me going because, obviously, there's star power. Obviously, you know, there are some great performances
KT: in this film. There are a lot of fun fight sequences, I would say as well. But I really like that the premise was set up that you've got a really annoying but doesn't deserve to die brother in Po. Because what the you know, you just have those rapscallions that like to call shit. Right? Yeah. Especially, I guess, nepotism is is the capital letter right there. So, you know, it it really set up the opportunity to have Han swoop in and I guess gain sort of vengeance. And I guess it also became
KT: whodunit in regards to corporate restructuring.
Oti: Yeah. And I think they just at the base level, the story was, let's see how we can get Han to beat people in this situation.
KT: And work backwards. Yeah.
Oti: So how could we tie this story into this? But it was fun to watch nonetheless. Yeah.
KT: You know, on behalf of Oti, the president of Simps Unite, I don't think they should have called it Romeo Must Die. Not in the sense that he didn't die, but in the sense that it it is implied that he's Romeo and Trish is Juliet, and they never got that tender, tender, sweet, hot people kiss.
Oti: Well, Romeo and Juliet never got it either.
KT: Well, they did have some racy dialogue, which I guess back then, if you adjust it for inflation, is straight up fucking.
KT: I don't know. The title of the movie doesn't really suit the end product, I believe. Yeah. But who judges a movie by the title? I don't know. Really, isn't it like the ass of the face? Wow. Is that a Tongan or a Kenyan proverb? That that must be straight from Tonga.
Oti: No. But the title notwithstanding, I think, just seeing Han navigate all those different situations, it was quite wild.
KT: Yeah. And what was your favorite fight sequence with Han? Not Anthony Anderson, please don't say. I know some shit.
Oti: It have to be the shootout with Kai. It it was building up to that. Everything else was chump change to Han. But I really liked, you know, Trish and Han.
KT: Like, Mr. and Mrs. Smith who?
Oti: Yeah. I saw you splashing like, who? Let's pause.
KT: Noshka upskirt of the wind who? I prefer that than seeing Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie about it. But again, see, I'm also a late in life Brad Pitt lover, but only in Inglourious Basterds. Okay. I guess while we're also here to round it out, I'm also a late in life Hugh Grant lover, but only in Death to 2020 and Death to 2021.
Oti: Oh, wow. So he didn't do anything for you in Bridget Jones? The court rests, your honor.
KT: Yeah. I think the standoff was very good. I think while we're also talking about the fight sequences, how did you feel about the Mortal Kombat X-ray sort of a or maybe it was before the X raying in the Mortal Kombat games. Come and fight me, nerds. I will concede at this one point. I don't think he did it a lot. I know back then I It was found you to effect. They chose them very strategically. It was used three times.
Oti: Agreed. They used it sparingly
Oti: and to good effect. I think back then I was more impressed by it. Right now, it was alright. But it it still got the job done. It did. Like Goro in the OG Mortal Kombat.
KT: Well, better than Goro in the most recent Mortal Kombat offering. Oh, they did Goro bad. Hashtag justice for Goro. I love Aaliyah, but no offense. There's not really much to say in regards to Trish. Actually, I do have one kudos in regards to Trish. You know, we we cover a lot of shit, especially in regards to, like, the drug game, you know, the whole Power cinematic universe, Kin, Kings of Dublin, The Wire. You know, we we cover so much in regards to the drug game and also power dynamics like Succession, for example.
KT: But there is a whole dynamic of a child morally objecting to the way that their parents, like, came into wealth, but also continuing to suck on the teat of corporate capitalism. Mhmm.
KT: So I kind of respected the fact that Trish, you know, she's like, nah, I'm just gonna go work in this store.
Oti: Yeah. But I I I asked you this question when you brought it off. Why how the fuck does she own her own store? Did that just fall like mana from heaven?
KT: Say the word female again.
Oti: No. I I just wanna know if you're for women. No. No. No. No. For women ownership. That's all. No. We we also say, and I'll grant you this, that just because we watch a lot of shit, a lot of wealthy black people in cinema have to explain their own wealth. Yes. Oh, I granted it out when I was a kid. Our Kind of People. ABC. Yes. We don't need to know the backstory.
KT: So okay. Maybe Trish did some things to get her money and get the store. Well, this is this is a beautiful callback and a lovely reference tying of the bow. That's why you have white and other race because because it it gets too confusing. And and and and the everyday viewer will be too busy trying to answer, hang on a second. Other races can fuck each other? And it's not in a seedy incognito search?
Oti: The category is in fun hub, mate.
KT: The true frontier of activism. Mhmm. Only tans if you're nasty. Wow. Is there anything you want to say aside from nepotism buying the store about Trish?
Oti: Oh, she was so good, I think.
KT: By you sure? I did did did a demon possess you in the last couple of minutes?
Oti: Wait. Because I questioned how she owned the store.
KT: Alright. Well, it seems it's not just the average viewer that questions black wealth. Right, Oti?
Oti: Me, you're coming hard. All I said was you can't you can't disassociate her from her father because she's young. She owns her own store. We don't know how she got to own that store. I'm assuming part of her bloody funding comes from the dad, regardless of whether or not she wants to admit it.
KT: We're going to scrap the Abacus For Your Reference merch, and we're going to get Oti Shovel approved For Your Reference merch.
Oti: No. But it was it was good seeing Aaliyah. She was really good in this.
KT: Oh, and she's like such a beautiful spirit. Let's move on. Let's talk about Isaac. I thought this was interesting and I kind of wish it was explored again. See, we were going to have a light film and I'm bringing my KT Wanky monocle right now. I wanna talk about Isaac and the concept of building wealth, which Oti kind of 60 minuteed himself if you're nasty. But the idea of Isaac going legitimate, and not just going legitimate, trying to occupy and also have a piece of the pie
KT: in a predominantly white space NFL in this case. What were your thoughts on that?
Oti: Obviously, Stringer Bell comes to mind. Yeah. True. Like, to every Stringer, you have your Avon. You have someone who's like, I just want the streets. I want cash in the bank, and that's it. Ghost and Tommy. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. It's the classic be comfortable in what you have and not wanting to push the status quo and in Isaac wanting to own it all. Yeah. He's like, mate, this 38,000,000
Oti: that throwing at me
KT: It's piss money.
Oti: Is piss money. Yeah. It's piss money. Once you get your once you become the owner, you make 10 times that. Yeah. It's wild. And and and it just shows you. Isaac is saying that as a sign of weakness, not wanting to to to own the streets. I own the streets. Such a ridiculous mentality.
KT: It's it's interesting. It's it's interesting. I think it's a very tangible theme to have in regards to whether it's TV or film. But if we're talking about a watching experience and not like real life shit, I don't know. Trying to go legit out of, like, non legit means, it never ends well.
Oti: Well, they did say it's too legit to quit. Nice.
KT: Is that hip hop?
Oti: But no. Like, I understand when you're separating it from reality, but the fact is a lot of marginalized people are in are put in a position where they can't progress, and you're left to be within your own fucking devices. Uh-huh. When you wanna try and push that farther,
Oti: then you get all sort of barriers. Oh, we'll just give you this money and you'll be fine. Yeah. You you think you've made bank until you realize that, uh-oh. But that's because you're capping your potential. Yeah. It's like bloody musicians now. They know that I want to own my own fucking masters. Yeah. You know? It's not just a matter of, oh, I'm gonna give you a big signing fee, which you have to fucking repay the bloody records anyway. Yeah. It's always Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's The marketing. It's just being clever. And I think this is the best thing about
KT: Sounds like Sam Cooke in One Night in Miami who you had Delroy Lindo quarrel with. Interesting. He put that against helping people now. Okay. We need I'll just anyway. This is gonna turn into the One Night in Miami. I just wanted to poke the Oti bear because I know that definitely gets him heated. Because I I felt I felt the rage meter. I felt the Oti Saiyan about to levitate, and I needed to stop it. But I do think it's an interesting discussion in regards to going legitimate, but it's also
KT: the game is rigged, especially for black people. So, like, the fact that Isaac thought he could, I don't necessarily because to be perfectly honest, like, you know, shout outs to Adam McKay in this particular instance and also and John C. Reilly, you know, like NBA wasn't necessarily what it is today, and it probably wasn't even intended to be a sport for the every man. Right? It was very predominantly white, and then you would have players that that are more closer to their golfing age
KT: still in the NBA, and they probably didn't even intend for it to be that way. And I guess what I mean is those in power are probably just going to continue to stay in power, you know? True. True. You know, the the golf clubs were left alone until the tiger came along. Mhmm.
KT: So I I really enjoyed that. I wish they had explored it more in the film. I think it would have given a bit more to chew on even the way like the etchings of a storyline were absolutely there. And I do think it was sufficient for what was delivered in the film, but it was more compelling. And the more I talk about it, the more I'm getting annoyed and it's like, you are capable of this? Like, you are capable of bringing extra dimension and you're just gonna tack it on at the end.
KT: I love how very on brand Mac I think he called it Machiavellian Incorporated.
Oti: Mhmm.
KT: Let's talk about that moment. Let's talk about that moment at the end of the film where essentially Mac is usurping Isaac because he saw this coming.
Oti: Yeah. So Mac is of the mind that they're not gonna give you what you want. They're bloody up there laughing at you. Yeah. So he he thought it as a moment to take it up into his own hands and just completely sort of do a coup. Yeah. Don't agree with his fucking methods.
KT: They were very Machiavellian.
Oti: Yeah. Yeah. It's it's sort of wild that for both families, they thought each other were trying to bring themselves down, but no, man. It was all within it was all in house. It was in the rooster coop. Yeah.
KT: Go and check out our The White Tiger episode. I
KT: really enjoyed that. That was a very good layer. But if we're talking about I'm not even talking about like toxic masculinity. I'm just talking about respectability in regards to leadership. I respected Mac more than I respected Isaac at least near the end of the film in the sense that he needed to mobilize and he needed to stabilize because they were losing Right? Because half was was them on the waterfront. And then also friends and lovers, feel free
KT: to tell me to do the work or also to educate me. But it was set in Hong Kong, but they kept referring to China. So I don't know if it was just a lazy shorthand in regards to the writing. But I guess for the sake of KT's shorthand, I'll I'll just call it the Sing family. So so it was a half half sort of split in power. And it it was interesting because even Kai mentioned it to Han
KT: that, you know, it was bound to happen. This war was bound to happen when in all reality, there was no conflict of war in that particular sense.
Oti: Yeah. And the fact that Sing actually ordered his son, Po, to be killed and then pretended to say, oh, I'm hungry. You killed my kid. I'm gonna come for you. And then shit goes down with Isaac's family and Mac is like, oh, they're retaliating.
KT: Wow. I don't know. It feels very biblical. It feels very Succession. Like, you being so strong and powerful and having a fucking useless kid that embarrasses you. True. I'm not saying to the level of assassination, but it's like, you know, with the first pancake, Connor Roy and all, we've mentioned Succession. Go and fucking watch Succession. Go and listen to our episode. But it was very interesting because, yeah, there was a lot of cloak and dagger shit that was going on in the guise of external forces trying to tear them down from the outside.
Oti: Yeah. Man, if you have a two IC, that that person would like he's the one person that you should fucking be paranoid about.
KT: But we've mentioned that many times, and the caveat is the ambitious two IC. Mhmm. Those are the ones you need to be worried about. Those that watch the ridiculous Pos of the world continue to roll around in their filth and fortune and not have to work for it. Yeah. And I guess you could say the same thing with Mac as well.
Oti: True. True. But I I respected Isaac because he saw the bigger picture.
KT: No. But he was trying to embed himself in a predominantly, decidedly, deliberately white space.
Oti: Why would they make up space for him? Because he had everything. Everything was in play for him to take off. Whatever properties, they could not build a stadium without him. Mhmm. That's the end of the day. Oh, Oti day. Yeah. But he saw an opportunity to embed himself. Otherwise, there was never gonna be an opportunity like that again.
KT: Yes. It was very Tyrion Lannister.
KT: No one talks about Game of Thrones anymore, friends and lovers. Side note, are you excited for the new Game of Thrones coming out?
Oti: Fuck that shit. Nah. Nah. It it is what it is at this point.
KT: It was a very smart and that's why because we love Peter Dinklage and we love Tyrion's character. So it was a very Tyrion move. Like you said, it was it was a cataclysmic once in a lifetime, one in 50 year event sort of, you know, maneuver.
KT: But you also need to take into account where he was trying to activate that play. And maybe maybe that's the Mac in me. I don't know. Like
Oti: Yeah. You're definitely the Avon in this household,
KT: the Mac. Stringer? Woah. That's sad for you then.
Oti: You can continue living but not
KT: living behind bars knowing that you're never gonna get up there. Without spoiling anything, people talk about Sean Bean. How about Idris Elba dying in roles? Like, I'm not even gonna mention what I'm referencing, but three of them we've covered on the podcast succinctly. I don't know. There's a respectability about Mac to me. You know, I'm not going to go into particular detail, but those that can read between the lines, the means in which those that continue to benefit in regards to the NFL was done through violent means. Therefore,
KT: even though Isaac is is is dotting the i's and crossing the t's and he's doing it in a cordial way, you can't gain power that was gained violently through cordial means. That's what I'm saying, sir.
Oti: Hey. You'll never own anything then.
KT: Does anyone truly earn anything in this fucking
KT: Bezos dick ship world?
Oti: Come on now. I think you've listened to a bit too much Dino. We're not renting everything, mate.
KT: Okay, Oti Rogan. You've gotta be on Isaac's side of this. Otherwise,
KT: we'll to pull praising him in isolation. You're not praising him specifically in this situation because he the it's it's a no it's not it's a lose lose for him.
Oti: It's a what do what is he losing by being part of the owner? What is he losing exactly?
KT: Yeah. But also, there are many there are many parts of chess, my Luce friend. L u owner. L u c e. Shout outs to Kelvin Harrison junior. Go and listen to our Luce episode,
KT: friends and lovers. But what I'm saying is he should have considered all angles. Yes. It would have been great for him to be embedded in the NFL. But again, we talked about the ambitious two IC who was Mac. He left that gap and Mac ran it straight to him. You're ridiculous.
Oti: You are ridiculous. I think Isaiah Washington is as as as the person is clouding your judgment on who Mac is the character.
KT: Hey, man. Hey, man. I'm just saying, there are reasons why I win Settlers of Catan against you many times. You've won once, mate. You know, years of playing, once it does not equate to many. But also, I will reference The Harder They Fall episode because you're here you're you're Issa Rae all for black people, but you don't realize that there are layers within the black community, and some wanna see you fail. Don't you remember when Mac was talking
Oti: get to that later after we've
Oti: dealt with external forces.
KT: Oh, very nice. Oti in the metaverse, if you're nasty. It. But when Mac was talking to one of the fellas that that was a crab fisherman, I guess you would call him, or a crabberman. Wow. I think that's what Oti's subreddit is called. Right? In the simp section? No. But, like, he was talking about,
Oti: you know, the crabs. You know? Whenever one of them is almost out of the bucket, they pull him back down. Right? But in this case, he's doing the pulling back down. That guy who owned his property, he was making his own money, he was paying for his, you know, he had a business. He's an entrepreneur.
Oti: He called Isaiah Washington just for his fucking self interest, trying to pull him down and being like, oh, I'm gonna shoot you. You're gonna be with these crabs. No, man. Crabs to the face, man. This is and this is why I had an issue with you praising Belly so much because
KT: Oh, hey. Woah. Woah. No.
Oti: In there, we had a character portraying and pretending as if the he he is for the people. Otto. And he was not. Just like Mac isn't for the black people, he's not. He's he's he's for himself at the end of the day.
KT: I I can't say I'm surprised that we got Hotep Oti on this podcast.
KT: Where's your tribe of Israel? I can't say I'm surprised, friends and lovers. You know, even if there's just one black person in a film, Oti will find a way to make it about that character.
Oti: Wow. Yeah. Wow. I think we really need to to to drill down into why you say that a bit later because what I'm speaking now is pure facts.
KT: Okay, Fox News. Just announcing well, you acknowledged earlier that the OG of this film is Han. Yeah. But now you're making it all. You took us down this path. No. Because you keep wanting to besmirch all of the films and Belly, for example. You're not coming for my Belly today, tomorrow, forever, sir. You are not doing it, and this is the wrong type of hype. Let's talk about Colin even though I always remember him as Melvin in The Temptations.
Oti: As Wayne Palmer in 24.
KT: Also on Pearson. Mhmm. Lay some love and splooshes to DB Woodside friends and lovers. Mhmm.
KT: What do you think about Colin's character?
Oti: He wasn't as spoiled as Po. I think he had a better grasp on bloody reality on what he wanted to do with his life, on what he wanted to do business wise. And I think the promise that Isaac had for Colin was quite clear, especially His with hands would be clean Yeah. Essentially. Yeah. Yeah. He he wanted to run it legit. He wanted to,
Oti: you know, even when the just before they died, he was talking about all the plans that they had and how they're gonna how they're gonna build this empire.
KT: A very considered response, Oti. However, I would say Colin wasn't really given a chance in regards to getting to know who his character was. Agreed. And I think because Po was so fucking useless, even Colin doing the bare minimum makes him seem like a great son. True. True. I think it was I think it was nice for Isaac to have dreams for Colin but like, I'm fucking fortunately, like, I don't think that ever would have come into fruition. And, you know, something that I really enjoyed about this film
KT: is we didn't have the mustache twirling white man in Roth being the big bad. I really like how inadvertently, maybe deliberately, this kind of became a self reflection of you and your own. Yeah. I really enjoyed it. They even the even like the power play that was definitely leveraged by Kai and Mac, this is absolutely an intelligent film. It's also hip hop. We didn't really get to talk about DMX, but again, go and listen to our Belly episode. For someone that's very pro black Oti,
KT: you always find a way to open your mouth and talk about Belly in a bad way.
Oti: I loved Belly. Okay. I loved the last ten minutes.
KT: And the opening scene, which which I continue to sustain is one of the best opening sequences in cinema ever. Yeah. But DMX is like he he's the beginning and the end of this. But we did have him in the opening of this film. Yeah. His introduction into the film was talking about, you know, guns don't kill people, people kill people. And unfucking fortunately, that's still a poignant, you know, sort of resonance to make currently in America. You know, love and splooshes to all of our friends and lovers that live in America.
KT: I guess it's a cultural thing. I will never really understand the whole gun thing. But also, at the end of this film, like, it got ridiculous. Everyone had a gun even to the point where it wasn't even a fucking, like, briefcase. It was a fucking gun that was housed in a case, I suppose. And they were like, they it got all Scarface up in that bitch. And I'm like, okay. Yeah. I forgot this was America. Like Yep.
Oti: Like, all of the guns Did you think hard papers in my briefcase is like a blab? And
KT: I I guess it's like, we're so fucking digital now, but he was really fighting for those papers. I just I just really I really loved that DMX was in the film. Obviously, you know, every dog needs a bitch or every Oti needs a KT bitch. Yeah. Is there anything else you wanna say before we wrap up, my love?
Oti: Shout out to Grace Park.
KT: Oh, do you mean the credited Asian dancer, but not Jennifer Wong because she's also credited as Asian dancer?
Oti: Yep.
KT: Let me find out you have a Grace Park section in your Crabberman subreddit.
Oti: Doesn't everyone?
KT: Stop telling us about your web searches, bro. Thank you friends and lovers for joining us on a nasty and very Oti episode in the For Your Reference podcast. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference, Oti.
Oti: I'm gonna reference Queen of the Damned.
KT: Nice. That's something else I need to add to my list. Mhmm. I will continue to add this to my list. Mhmm. Belly. Wow. Motherfucker. Oti's favorite rapper, second to J. Cole.
Oti: Don't even get me started.
KT: If you would like to join an Oti hosted J. Cole listening party on Twitter and Instagram, we're at for your ref pod. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on Jet Li is always welcome in my bosoms podcast if you like to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.
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