Repentance – Cross Angel Mom Freak

Full transcript of Repentance – Cross Angel Mom Freak.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household. And for those that categorize genres in regards to films, why and how encapsulates a horror? That is why we watch this film during this spooky season. Take the show away. Peace and blessings, friends and lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT.

0:00Oti: And Oti.

0:00KT: Book the clients and make the $300 an hour worth it with mixing religious figures and antagonistic boat rocking. Join us on a journey of healing with Repentance this week.

1:08Oti: Wow.

1:11KT: Yikes. Yikes. Yikes. Yikes, Oti. Let's get into the general stats of information. This 2013 film was directed by Philippe Caland, also based on a film by Philippe. And the screenplay was written by Shintaro Shimosawa. In regards to cast, what a delightful delectable cast we have Oti. Wholly expansing, deliciously splooshy.

1:37Oti: Mhmm.

1:38KT: Anthony Mackie, and I do believe, Oti, take your abacus out. I do believe this is the first Anthony Mackie film we have covered.

1:38Oti: It is.

1:38KT: Especially if we're talking about lead roles. A welcome, question mark, to Forest Whitaker. He made it to the first episode of the For Your Reference podcast. Mhmm. T'Challa. He's back. Oh, T'Challa. Go and check out Black Panther, Wakanda accent is that. That was the first episode of our podcast. Sanaa Lathan. I think it's also a first for Sanaa. Also, Mike Epps.

2:17Oti: First for Mike.

2:18KT: Also Nicole Ari Parker. Delicious, delightful, delectable group of people. The product, maybe not so. Maybe I'm revealing too much. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. I also doubt, you know, if you haven't watched it, our review isn't going to encourage you essentially. So join us friends and lovers, grab a spooky beverage and and repent with us. Mhmm. In regards to the budget, $5,000,000 with a worldwide gross of $1,100,000. That's painful. That's cleanse yourself with some bleach painful.

3:02Oti: Wow.

3:03KT: Alright, Oti. Let's get into our first impressions. I don't think we've ever heard of this film. I will boldly say on behalf of all of us. Shout outs to Chobomax for making us believe this was a horror. But how how did you feel generally? What were your first impressions about this film?

3:23Oti: I was eager. I think I went into it excited. I was first puzzled that I didn't know anything about the movie and never heard of it. Yep. Given the cast, usually that would be within my radar. Mhmm. But that got missed, I think. I was quite optimistic at the start, and then it all just went awry. Part of me was eager, you know. I wanted it to be better, but it gave me moments of joy that I don't think that I don't take for granted though.

3:55KT: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And I think even wanting to enjoy something is apparently a lot to ask nowadays. So, I definitely agree. There were moments that I enjoyed in this film and I'll continue to call this a film, come and fight me Tenet motherfuckers. I enjoyed it for the most part. I think the story was pretty solid. I didn't realize I was going to see recreations of Passion of the Christ. Because when he broke that fishbowl, I was like, he's giving me Butler vibes, but he's also clumsy on purpose. Yep.

4:32KT: What I will say, because we've never really had a chance to talk about Anthony Mackie is I fucking love him. Like, I love him as a person. I don't think I've watched a lot of things that he's been in. And even with the marvelness of it all, I don't really care. But I do love the marvelous Anthony Mackie Maisel.

4:32Oti: Oh, wow.

4:32KT: I think he's great. I I love the way he articulates himself. He has a great view of the world. I I just love hearing him talk.

4:32Oti: Is he eloquent, KT?

5:01KT: Oh, quite quite so, Oti Petunia. Meet me at the Billowing Blouse Lake. BBC Pride and Prejudice miniseries, friends I and just like Anthony Mackie as a person, even though I don't really care for the marvelness of it all. I also feel like this was prepping him for Pain & Gain, especially when he was on the boat with Angel and he was rocking the boat like an asshole. Mhmm. Like, and he also had the the needle as well. Like, he was giving me Pain & Gain.

5:36KT: And he also has this, like, sort of arrogant nature about him. Even when there were he went to, like, a show and tell with the kids in at yoga, He was genuinely complimenting Maggie, but I don't know. Maybe it's something about his face. Maybe it's something about his voice. I was like, how dare you besmirch my Sanaa Lathan? How dare you? But, yeah, Simon Baker will come and look after Sanaa just fine. Don't worry about me and my rom coms, Oti.

5:36Oti: Clearly.

6:08KT: But I I really enjoyed Anthony Mackie in this role. I I think he he fit the brief, so to speak, that self righteousness, that arrogance, he really played into it. How did you feel spoiler spoiler spoiler, yikes yikes yikes, just listen to us speak essentially. How did you feel about the twist of this film? Actually, there there were multiple twists, so feel free to tug at any twists you would like, my love.

6:33Oti: Yeah. There were a couple of twists in this one there. I think my favorite is when Tommy was apparently not aware of what went down with the accident. Mhmm. But the guy had already come too. He saw Mike Epps. I think that was the first moment of pure laugh out moment that I had in the movie.

6:55KT: That was some really good laughs. Those were really good laughs in this film.

7:01Oti: Mike Epps carrying, carrying the the mother, Angel's mother, walking up, seeing seeing Mackie there in the car half dazed, and then just nodding his head and walking back and throwing the woman out of the bridge. I was like, what the fuck?

7:17KT: Like, at at that point, are you even trying? It was insane. Like, is that the first instances of AI trying to complete the script or what? It was just like, it was outrageously lifetime BET. Like, it was just ridiculous days of our lives, like, sort of writing. It

7:39Oti: it would not look out of place in our great Nollywood movies.

7:44KT: Oh, yes. Yes. Absolutely. With the CGI almost in paint helicopters. Mhmm. Yes. Absolutely agree. And can we just say, Mike Epps kind of like brought the whole like he brought the whole meal to the table.

7:44Oti: It did. It did.

7:44KT: It was super solid. Like he can have that serious sort of element in acting. And I think he needs to be lauded a bit about it.

8:08Oti: I think maybe it's because I've watched him in a lot of ridiculous things that anything that came out of his mouth and just took as if he's bloody joking or in my head, I was just I felt like he was I don't know. I don't know. I didn't I didn't take him seriously.

8:25KT: No. I get it. I get it. It's like you can still be talented and I still not take you seriously.

8:25Oti: Yeah. Like, it's weird. It's weird. Like you said, for you, he seemed like, oh, he can do serious shit. But to me, I was like, oh, he's joking around.

8:41KT: Like, I don't well, there's the Wayans brothers and there's so Marlon is in the Coppola Rashida Jones On the Rocks. And sorry, Bill Murray. I am a cinephile. Calm down, kids. And he played a serious role there, but I I couldn't get past it. Yeah. It's hard to disassociate someone from

9:02Oti: everything that you've known them for.

9:05KT: Mike Epps, maybe I just maybe I I can separate. But with the Wayans brothers, like Marlon in particular, I just couldn't take him seriously in On The Rocks. That's actually a great topic, friends and lovers. Are there are there any sort of comedians that you can't take seriously? Even if the skill is there, even if I'm watching Eric Andre and expecting him not to pull his pants down. It's it's wild. Yeah.

9:30Oti: Like his ass belongs to the streets. Yep. Even in an interview, you just expect him to bloody stand up and just pull his pants down. It's kind of a given. It's it's kind of a given

9:40KT: at that point. Yeah. But I absolutely agree. I could separate Mike Epps. I think maybe because no. I was gonna say because he takes it all the way slapstick, but so does Marlon. So I don't know. Maybe it's just like a personal flavoring

9:55Oti: Yeah.

9:57KT: If you will. But, yeah, there's there's definitely different offerings of I think it's 50 Shades of Black and then also Meet the Blacks for Mike Epps and also Marlon Wayans where how do you even reconcile the different films from serious all the way to the branding?

10:12Oti: Well, I think the difference with me is when it comes to Marlon and Mike, is I can differentiate at least it's it's in the tone of voice. I think Mike Epps's voice is so bloody unique that you can it just sounds quite comedic to me at least that anything, even if he's being serious and just taking it as if he's bloody joking.

10:12KT: That's interesting. How about Cedric the Entertainer?

10:41Oti: He he has a he he doesn't have a doesn't have a weird tone of voice.

10:41KT: So you think it's the voice? So like Katt

10:41Oti: Yeah.

10:49KT: Katt Williams coming at you straight without being anything other than a pimp is weird. I was gonna mention Atlanta, but he was kind of ridiculous in Atlanta as well, which is currently being shot. So hopefully, we get Atlanta.

11:00Oti: Oh, man. It's been a I

11:03KT: it's interesting because I maybe it's so for you, it's the voice.

11:03Oti: It's the voice. He just has a bloody comedic voice, man.

11:03KT: Like, I think he was playing a character that suited him. So I don't think it was necessarily too far of a stretch, but I think it was more the nuance. Like, he did bring a nuance to the role. He did show us that Tommy ain't shit, man. Yeah. And I I guess it was that dynamic that we were trying to figure out, the brothers.

11:30Oti: Yeah. Because a lot of the time when we watch shows, we get a lot of entitled people who think that they deserve something Yeah. From another person. It's owed to them. It's owed to me. I it's mine. When he they did pretty much nothing. You know? It's it's I thought it was that kind of dynamic, but apparently, was more. And I think that's one of the twists where I was like, oh, man. Come on, Tommy. Be better. There's too there's too many women out there in the world for you to go after your brother's whatever.

12:01KT: I do wonder. I I do wonder. You know how the kids say that you wake up and you choose violence? I feel like a lot of people wake up and choose messiness. Because maybe maybe your best friend's ex is your soul mate but maybe there's millions billions of other people. Mhmm. You can dip into their pussy valley.

12:01Oti: Facts.

12:01KT: Messy, Oti. Messy.

12:26Oti: Point. He felt he'd done something wrong to the point where he didn't go to see his brother at all out of shame.

12:26KT: I think he just wouldn't have went anyway. Let's be honest. He seems selfish. He seems all for himself. Like

12:40KT: Tommy, there was no reason for him to scoop up Maggie even though what a face, what a presence. Yeah. Even though. But it seemed like he was the default like golden child in the family and he got whatever he wanted. You talk about entitlement, think of Succession like Tommy's like Kendall And Ben is like Rome, like the ones that initially, like the presenting layer is

13:11KT: good or evil slash asshole, you actually remove those layers and you start to realize the ones that present to be of virtue and of good nature are actually anything but. And that kind of goes to, you know, him essentially having his own sort of cult, cult following, but essentially some sort of belief system, some sort of ideology, some sort of philosophy. And can we just say, like, if you're going to branch off and spout the shit you're gonna spout, like, don't leverage existing ancient texts. Write that shit yourself.

13:47KT: Write it with, like, clean paper and and claim that it's 3,000 years old. Mhmm.

13:53Oti: The lost pages of the bible.

13:55KT: No. But see, you're still leveraging you're still leveraging racist ass Mellie Gibby's bible. I'm talking about I'm talking about Passion of Christ, friends, and lovers disclaimer. I'm talking about if you're going to create your own ideology, belief system, philosophy, just create your own. So go straight John Smith.

13:55Oti: Joseph Smith.

13:55KT: Oh, okay. Dum dum dum dum.

14:19Oti: South Park, friends and lovers. Hope I didn't offend you, mate.

14:22KT: So offended. You you so sharpshooted that very succinctly. Thank you. I will think and I will do my Paul Bettany lashes

14:22Oti: Oh, wow.

14:22KT: At your altar, my love. But yeah, the dynamic between Tommy and Ben was very interesting. But I think it was it was the pushing of that self righteousness about Tommy that made it not so much of a surprise or a payoff that he is a terrible person. Terrible in the sense that he like strangled his mother's cat to death.

14:58KT: That's like that's like some heavy shit. Right? You know, like punching another kid in the playground, like you're actually wanting to quote Dutch from The Shield, you're wanting to see the life like leave them. Yep. Right? And he was like, oh, it took a while, but I kept strangling the cat until it died. It's just like, dude, are you okay? Like, is this we just skip into the sunset and just live a normal life after that? Right?

15:26KT: And you could see that it was starting to progress and Angel was doing his best to get Tommy to reveal the big secret. Right? The big secret of killing his own mother. You know, so we we have the cat story. We have, you know, Tommy stealing Maggie away from Ben. When Ben first said it without any sort of content, it did feel very in silly. But going along in the story, it did make sense. You know, they went to the bar for this whole purpose of Ben seeing Maggie.

15:58KT: It it seems kinda creepy, but then I guess we need to reevaluate if we care about eighties and nineties films, and it felt very Basic Instinct perverts in the room. That is a mirror I am holding up to everybody. But going back to this film, I don't know. I feel like strangling a cat to death is kind of worse than stealing your brother's beau. What do you think?

15:58Oti: Oh, a 100. A 100%.

16:25KT: I guess it was the way it escalated. And then we got to the big point that Angel couldn't get the satisfaction of Tommy confessing because Tommy wasn't aware that that's what was happening.

16:38Oti: But the weird thing is he was because that's all he found out at the end. Yeah. What What was

16:43KT: was that? So you're you're playing it like you didn't know. So us as an audience are like, oh, poor guy. He didn't know. And he did know the whole time. So that's just I guess that's just a writing thing. Yeah.

16:43Oti: Because he says, oh, the voice. But he was awake. The girl was squinting away, seeing everything

17:00Oti: to the point where he saw Ben walk up and nod and go back and dump the body.

17:06KT: Yeah. And and just because Tommy isn't physically doing the dirty work, it doesn't mean that he's not benefiting from that dirty work being completed. So he's still complicit in that. Yeah. Even though he feels like his hands are clean, he's still benefiting from the actions of filthy hands.

17:19Oti: Yeah. And you know what was interesting to me is a lot of this was rooted in the Bible and religion. But then again, what's the timing of the other cheekbite or is that just New Testament shit?

17:36KT: Oti, if you are bringing contradictions to scripture, you're religioning wrong. Can I get that on a t shirt? I need some merch, I need some merch. But going to that, that is very interesting. And Angel says, tell me your secrets and I'll let you go. I would have spilled everything. I would have said my secrets, I would have told everyone's secrets. Like at that point, if you have me in the bay there was something about Tommy taking too long to accept the situation. Because when he woke up and he was essentially coming to,

18:14KT: he was like wrapped up in plastic and, you know, he was he was restricted. He couldn't move. And you you were saying, oh, you know, he's still waking up. Nah, man. Like, even at that initial point, something's up. Like, something is not okay. And so many moments along the way, he felt like he still had like, even when he was asking for water, yeah, basic human right. But in this particular circumstance, how do you even feel like you can open your mouth to ask for water when you're being held captive, dude? Yeah.

18:46Oti: We we disagree on that. I think he he just felt he could deescalate up better if if he acted friendly, if he acted unaware and he didn't panic too much. But once he realized that shit doesn't isn't doing anything, that's when the full party kicks in because you're still trying to figure out what the fuck is this what's happening.

19:07KT: No. But if you're wrapped in plastic and you're like in some sort of basement, you're not leaving. Be real with yourself.

19:16Oti: Yeah. And it's weird. Think one of the weird things about this movie is, at least when it comes to Angel, he he leaves he leaves it up to Tommy to do the heavy lifting. Yeah. From cutting his own bloody thumb Yep. To shooting himself. Yep. What kind of, like, at the end where he leaves the revolver? And I'm like, okay. Cool. What the fuck? Like, how does he know that they can't accept the situation or his repentance won't be enough just by the mere fact of him admitting that he knew what they did?

19:53Oti: He's not gonna be able to live with himself and they'll shoot himself.

19:53KT: Okay. So this is where we insert Jack Nicholson

19:59KT: from The Departed grinning really creepily as the camera zooms in. Because that's me right now. I don't think we've established where we lie in regards to the morality because I was all for Angel. So everything you're describing, I was enjoying it. And I was like, yeah, you motherfucker, you hypocritical little motherfucker. This is what you deserve. This is absolutely what you deserve. So the heavy lifting is that guilt, is that penance, is that repentance, if you're nasty.

20:29KT: I don't know. I just didn't buy it. Like, I get it. Where was your morality? Where was your morality? Who are you resonating with in this film?

20:37Oti: Tommy. I'm like, you know, we we we make mistakes. I always shit what he did. That was bad.

20:37KT: What?

20:37Oti: The cat, the brother, the The the mother thing. Yeah.

20:37KT: Okay.

20:37Oti: Granted, it was more Ben doing the the shit. Yeah. And he was actually trying to call Ben back. Don't do it. No. No. So for him to be the one that felt that guilty to kill himself is ridiculous.

21:07KT: There's that but I told you it's that complicity. He's still guilty by association. He still benefits by association. The way he leveraged that whole event to launch his career, copying and pasting Wiki articles or bible verses. Come on now. There's no sympathy. There's no empathy. There's there's no feelings to be spent for Tommy, at least not in my direction. I was all about Angel because I liked that he was pulling the hypocrisy by Tommy's cojones. It wasn't right. He kept spouting all of this nonsense knowing

21:45KT: at this point, at the end of the film, we now know that Tommy was a whack and he allowed for Angel's mom to die because she was still breathing and he was at least coherent enough to understand that or at least want his brother to try and save it. But he was never really going to do the work that needed to be done to save her. And that's what you don't understand. Right? He wasn't the mustache twirling villain, but he was flicking beans.

22:15Oti: Okay, Angel lover. Answer me this. We get to learn that he goes through this voodoo thing, if I may call it that, to find out what exactly happened to the mother.

22:15KT: I think you're allowed to call it voodoo. Yes.

22:15Oti: Is that because I'm black?

22:35KT: Hey. Hey. PC is the way to be for me and you. So

22:44Oti: he learns. He gets hints. And during the seance or whatever the fuck that was, he hears the person tells him, don't look back. What does don't look back mean? And then when he get to introduce him or he introduce himself to Tommy, he has paragraphs of the book, Don't Look Back. Yeah. But we saw he didn't know that don't what Don't Look Back meant until was walking up to the pub during the event. But he had read that book as if it was some fucking he had written nonsense shit. He had a light text

23:20Oti: When in when we know that the first time he saw the Don't Look Back, he was walking up to that pub, and he saw it he saw the poster stuck on the door. But by the time he saw that post and the time he had gone to Mackie, There are dog ears on that book as if it'd been read a million times. Nah, man. Come on. Explain that to me.

23:20KT: Don't look back at Oti. I heard them say.

23:45KT: Well, you're correct. You're correct in that. But I'm saying the crux, the foundational, you know, audacity that Tommy had. Right? So he was in a car accident. It was a life changing event. It was, you know, his Oprah moment where he lives a fuller life. Cool bro. Rad. Nice for you. However, he like, they they willfully he willfully allowed for someone that wasn't dead to die. And then he leveraged this whole career on stolen Bible verses and voodoo, as you say, quoting you, and how does that not anger someone

24:34KT: that lost their mother seeing these years and pages of success? How does that not, you know, boil the blood? How does that not get you frustrated? If it was told from Angel's point of view, perhaps you would be agreeing with me. However, with my three sixty, two seventy Greyhound view, I can see that Angel was really just trying to get some sort of recompense out of this situation. Not only did his mother die, but he had to be constantly reminded by it by Tommy's success. How then, sir, is that fair?

25:18Oti: He was going crazy before he even found out about Tommy.

25:18KT: You're really doubling down, aren't you?

25:18Oti: I'm just saying. I'm trying to bring a human element here, sir. He lost his wife. I'm assuming based off his his his behavior after the mother had died. We know Sophie was there during all the seance stuff and the Simdal were together.

25:38Oti: Up until the warrant when he will he seemed really dead end on finding out who what happened to the mom.

25:38KT: No. But what but that's his that's that's the end of the Joker movie. I'm talking about the the the seedlings of the origin story. How do you not resonate with that, sir? That's what I'm saying.

25:58Oti: You have a daughter who seems bloody lost in all this. You don't pay attention to her. She looks lost in all honesty. She even wanted to to to open up to Tommy at the Yogama before Angel stepped in. She felt quite unaware. Didn't even know what to what to do.

25:58KT: Interesting. Interesting.

25:58Oti: Felt weird. Like, you abandon you abandon your child or you don't look after them the way they should have been looked after because you're in this revenge mode mission.

26:29Oti: I

26:30Oti: don't know. And it's weird. Like up until then, all of it, I was fine with all that, You know? Fine. I understand his anger. I understand his pain. I understand that he's being haunted by the mom's ghost. Fine. I can accept that. Up to the point where we get the other twist. How did you open the door, Francesca? Grandma, open the door for me. Come on now. Yeah.

26:57KT: I think if we were going to talk about being in purgatory and also being able to manipulate physical form, then they should have utilized that more. It felt like a convenient plot point.

27:11Oti: Grandma said to rub your head. I'm like, I do not like that ending at all. I was just fuming. I was like, why did I sit through this?

27:22KT: Are you saying even though tick, it had a kid, tick, it had a male protagonist, tick, it had ghost supernatural elements, it didn't give us the same payoff as Sixth Sense.

27:37Oti: Oh, the two are very comparable, aren't they darling?

27:40KT: Friends and Lovers, we have done an episode on Sixth Sense and it's delightful and it's delicious. What I will say that I had a similar sort of experience, I said, I'm sure Bruce Willis is an okay actor, but I could physically see him acting in Sixth Sense. I could see Forest Whitaker acting in this.

27:59Oti: It's weird. This might be actually a hot take, but

27:59KT: Or a hot take.

27:59Oti: Yep. Yep. Coming from me. Yep. I don't know he does well when he needs to be toned down. You know? When when when when the situation's meant to be calm and, you know, he feels like the overacting sort of character where if you're playing Idi Amin, he's the perfect go to guy. Yeah. It's Because of the extravagance. It's suited for the role. Yeah. You know? But when supposed to be a bit toned down, I don't know. It just feels like me.

28:36KT: Well, you just said he's unhinged. So that makes sense that he was completely like falling off the wagon. However, I will join you. I will get in the hot take hot tub with you, sir. I agree. I also don't know if how I guess what the sort of barometer is, what the sort of temperature check is in regards to Forest Whitaker. I feel like he's a comfortable fixture. Like, throughout the decades of cinema, it's very comforting that we see Forest Whitaker and that he's there. I don't know if I would put him in my

29:17KT: forever and always. Like, there's no competing with Denzel. Let's let let let my pussy valley relax for a bit because peak Denzel, it's most welcome for everybody. But yeah, Forest Wiggles, I don't know. I think maybe he's like Rami Malek where he's like a good character actor. Right? If you need the highs if you need the highs and lows at full volume, that's where you would go. Right? Yeah.

29:47KT: Maybe so. Maybe so. What's your favorite Forest Whitaker movie just to have some redemption here?

29:47Oti: Definitely. I I think everyone's would just be Last King of Scotland. It's gotta be right and it's been many years.

29:47KT: It's been many years. It's been many years. I do wonder how it sits now.

30:05Oti: And maybe we do a rewatch.

30:08KT: I think we are due a rewatch. Mark it in your calendars, friends and lovers. For all the things we said about Forest Whitaker, it's the least we can do. Do you who was the main character? Because even, you know, only until recently, get unless we're talking about Green Book, we get like the people of color, the black characters actually be the centerpiece. Was it McAvoy or was it Whitaker that was the main character in Last King of Scotland? Right?

30:43Oti: It was McAvoy because it's based off his experiences. So it's sad, but true.

30:54KT: Interesting. Some more tasty morsels for you to look forward to, you nasty friends and lovers. But let's get back to the film. Who was your favorite? Who was your favorite character in this?

31:06Oti: Sophie Sanchez, mate.

31:06KT: Yeah?

31:06Oti: Yeah. She comes in, steals the show. Only need like five minutes of her and then stunned me.

31:14KT: She made us feel like we had a chance.

31:21Oti: It just hit me what you meant, you ridiculous fussing.

31:26KT: Well, she does an acting role and then she goes home to Boris Kodjoe, so we all feel like we have a chance when we watch her in this film. If anyone is a dedicated Forest Whitaker podcast and is listening into this, I guess I 12 ks teammate. I challenge you, meet me in the ring, brother. Sophie, she didn't really offer much. Out of out of everything that transpired in the film, Sophie is your favorite?

31:54Oti: Yeah. Because Tommy and Ben just crap characters.

31:57KT: Now Ben's the best.

31:57Oti: You reckon?

31:57KT: I I like people that are misunderstood. So I enjoy Ben and I enjoy Angel.

32:05Oti: Funny thing about Ben, think the other thing that made me chuckle oh, not really chuckle, just fuck capitalism is I walked into jail for 5¢, but now I'm making $5 an hour. Fuck your money.

32:24KT: Right? Yeah. Because you can't pay for independence. When your hands are in someone else's pockets, you don't have that independence. Mhmm.

32:38Oti: Yeah, man. Man, he looked at the bright side of everything, mate. That $5 would probably take him a long way.

32:38KT: No. But even even Tommy, he like, he essentially threw that money at him.

32:48KT: Like, he was like throwing it to

32:48Oti: He the picked up odd jobs so he can get him the was it $12?

32:48KT: Like, let's also acknowledge Oti that he wasn't doing the work that he needed to do and that money was an easy solution to act as if he was doing something.

32:48Oti: I think it was more both guilt.

32:48KT: No. He exactly. So why don't you just not be a shit brother? Not steal the affections of Maggie. Don't go around strangling cats.

33:17Oti: I think we need to cut him some slack then again. You know what? It's Maggie. What do you do? Sanaa Lathan me. What are you gonna do? Yeah.

33:26KT: I wish I was Simon Baker. I'm going to keep saying it, friends and lovers. Someone request for us to cover Something New. Mentalist

33:36Oti: with Robin Robin Tunney.

33:39KT: Her name is also Kenya in that film.

33:42Oti: Love that movie. We need to watch it.

33:42KT: There's your Kenyan tax right there,

33:46KT: my love. I I think my favorite characters are Angel and Ben. I would say those two are my favorite characters.

33:55Oti: Okay. Weird selection, but alright.

33:58KT: You like defending shitty men. That's why you like Tommy. He's

34:03Oti: not my favorite character.

34:05KT: Yeah. I know. But if if you've listened to yourself for the past couple of minutes, it's very clear where your splooshies lie.

34:14Oti: No. I just I just need to understand his guilt to the point of him wanting to kill himself. Not even wanting, killing himself because that's what's insinuated at the end.

34:23KT: How is this I don't know if there's anything else you wanna talk about, but I wanna spend a bit of time just posing the question. How is this film a horror? And how did we stray so far from the path of our understanding of horror?

34:39Oti: I don't know.

34:41KT: It's a thriller. Sure.

34:43Oti: I don't know how it's a horror. Maybe maybe us watching the the Arctic will be in shock horror.

34:50KT: So, you know. Are you proud of yourself?

34:50Oti: Yep.

34:50KT: Is that really how you wanna live your life?

34:56Oti: A full 100. Yeah.

35:02KT: The use of religion was very interesting. And I guess for welcome for those new listeners and subscribers to the For Your Reference podcast. We've covered Prince of Egypt. We've covered Passion of the Christ. So if you wanna hear more about our feelings and thoughts about religion, you can go and listen to those episodes. But I wanna come to a scene you're calling the seance, so I'm just gonna call it the seance for consistency. In that seance scene, Anthony Mackie, I don't know, Oti, our resident African correspondent,

35:39KT: were there any sort of symbols or items that he was using that resonated in any way?

35:45Oti: No. Because he called it voodoo. Well, there was salt there. I think that's the the standard basic sales kit.

35:53KT: Are African people the salt of the earth? Is that what you're saying? Yeah.

35:59Oti: Thank you, Oti and Nancy. Mate, there's a reason why fucking Africa was colonized. Once they got that salt, not going back, mate.

36:06KT: Hey, my people got colonized, but then they fucked off because there was nothing there. So sometimes it pays to be the ugly sister, friends and lovers.

36:06Oti: Oh Jesus.

36:06KT: But going back to that seance scene, so we had Angel and we also had his relatives there so they could have the ritual.

36:31KT: Right?

36:32KT: And he was talking some nonsense. Like, I don't even know where Tommy was getting it from. And I said, he better mix in like a Christian scripture in there, otherwise he's gonna lose the crowd. And then the lady's like, lucky you said that because this is a Christian house.

36:50Oti: You've gotta involve your audience, mate. Know your audience. You gotta

36:54KT: know your audience, you gotta work the crowd, and you need to know what they wanna hear. And that's absolutely what Tommy was saying. But yeah, I don't know. He was essentially preying on vulnerable people, susceptible people. And I didn't care for that. I guess on a lighter scale, maybe it's a self help book. But for me, it's it's it's sacrificing people's livelihoods for you to get a buck.

37:25Oti: Very soul. But then again, he wouldn't be the first one doing that. Don't do that.

37:32KT: That's why that's why pyramid schemes still exist. Because if you have to go for one, you need to go for the head. Right?

37:32Oti: Oh, LuLaRich,

37:32KT: LuLaRich, yes, Oti. Thank you. Aren't you a learner documentarian watcher?

37:49Oti: Snooty snoot. Well, with everything that went on with this movie, do you think that Tommy's character should have picked up on the weird vibes of Angel?

38:00KT: Because there was definitely something off there. He gave a very nervous energy, but again, is that just Forest Whitaker acting? No, I'm not being funny, I'm being serious.

38:00Oti: Wow.

38:00KT: He just gave this nervous energy where it's just like, okay, fine. Take my money. You will just leave me alone. Like, what what do you want? Please.

38:21Oti: Was it was it was because I was like, mate, are you not picking up on this? Because it felt very

38:27KT: He had a he he was like Theo, our Greyhound in a thunderstorm. He gave off a very nervous energy.

38:32Oti: Yeah. Because you might call it like the first twist or whatever because I was very obvious that Angel was there to target Tommy. Yeah. Because, mate, that energy gave it off gave it off quite immediately. Yep. So why the fuck is that character not picking up on anything like that?

38:32KT: But did we did we establish that Tommy is perceptive? I don't think we did.

38:32Oti: He's a psychologist. At some level, he should be able to read the energy better than anyone else.

39:01KT: On a very real level, this is KT from the For Your Reference podcast. Just a general sort of PSA. Therapy is important. There is still unfortunately a stigma in regards to therapy. However, there is no shame in seeking help and also not burdening the people you love through going to therapy. However, there are countless examples in film and television where therapists are fucking shit. Mhmm. So no, I don't agree. I do not agree that just because

39:38KT: Tommy was a therapist that he was, you know, a capable person and he, you know, he had that virility to be able to perceive, you know, dodgy people.

39:52Oti: Cute word of cute use of the word virility. I just assumed more in terms of his potency.

39:59KT: Oh my. If if no one has started Forest Whitaker's virility and potency podcast, we are going to be saving the domain friends and lovers. Wow. This turned into a Forest Whitaker love hate fest, didn't it?

39:59Oti: I don't even think it was hate. I think we're just trying to understand him.

40:24Oti: I don't know. He's OG, you know. I've seen him since we were kids, so. Yeah.

40:30KT: But I have audible evidence of you laughing after I said Nicole Ari Parker, we all have a chance. Entrapment as they say routine. We are going down together if not at all. There's a lot of sexy people in this film and maybe I need to go cool off somewhere else. Let's finish off in a segment we call, For Your Reference, Oti.

41:00Oti: Just so we can refresh both our memories, because I'll also go and watch this, Last King of Scotland. I feel like that was the most memorable performance I've seen of Forest Whitaker's. Yep. And I can't even remember anything else other than that. That just rings a massive bell. We need to do it. I think I just need to be reminded that this guy can fucking act properly. This guy fucking acts. Yeah.

41:34KT: I will reference the thriller, not classified as horror, The Intruder.

41:42Oti: Oh, that's handsome. You know, we get movies that are a bit light sometimes. Yeah. You know, you don't know what you're gonna expect. You go in without any expectations. Mhmm. But they fucking deliver on the base level of fucking enjoyment. Absolutely. And I think that's where this movie fell short a bit because I I wasn't going to expect some bloody Oscar award winning performances despite the fact that they have it in their locker to do that. Yeah. I just expected

42:11Oti: to be, you know

42:11KT: Enjoy it.

42:11Oti: To enjoy it. Yeah. For more than just having laugh out loud moments where silly things are done or Yeah. You know? But, Wow. Yeah. Yeah. The Intruder, man. I think it yeah. Good reference.

42:27KT: Meagan Good, she doesn't make you feel like you have a chance because she's with Michael Ealy. But we also have Daddy Quaid, also Joseph Sikora in Power as well. Mhmm. If you would like to see the For Your Reference power on Twitter and Instagram, we're at for your f fun. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on Forest Whitaker, virility and potency podcast. If you would like to leave a rating and review, and we'll see you guys next piece. See you. Bye.