Redfern Now – Pivotal landmark in Australian television

Full transcript of Redfern Now – Pivotal landmark in Australian television.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household and a general sort of PSA, friends and lovers. We all want to be connected to the world. We all try and retweet. We all try and sign petitions. But if ever now is the time to take action specifically for our Australian friends and lovers. It is now time to pay the rent. Our non indigenous Australian friends and lovers, we'll put some links in the show notes. You can specifically pay the rent. You can support local councils and artists and

0:36KT: indigenous creatives that you love. Also, you're fortunate enough to have a job, talk to your work, talk to your HR, talk to your diversity and inclusion about a reconciliation action plan, as well as Supply Nation for an indigenous business directory. All right, we're going to play a message that I recorded in last year's episode about January 26, and then we'll get on with the show. I was born in Australia and raised on direct land, but it does not belong to me or my people. Being Australian needs to include understanding the history of indigenous people.

1:16KT: Stolen land, excluded in the constitution, the stolen generation, hundreds of deaths in custody, and lack of education in schools needs to be acknowledged so we can move forward. January 26 or any date is never a date to celebrate because it ignores the pain and voices of indigenous people. We need to face the atrocities of our past if we want to truly be the amazing country many tend to vocalize. For those that are unfamiliar, feel free to do a Google search because it was more of an education than I received in my schooling.

1:53KT: Warning to our indigenous friends and lovers with the format of podcasts, actors on screen and discuss may have passed away at the time of you listening. Always was, always will be aboriginal land. Hey, friends and lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. We got your host, KT.

1:53Oti: And Oti.

1:53KT: Look beyond the postcard Sydney skyline and peek into the other side of the tracks with the pivotal landmark series Redfern Now this week. Woo hoo. Oti Oti Oti. What a wonderful, beautiful time. It really is, isn't it? It is absolutely.

2:58KT: Redfern Now walks so Mystery Road could run. Mhmm. Wow. Wow. Wow. Let's get into stat and general information. I I did love and get swept away in this series and just getting all of the details. So I'm going to do a speed round of as many names as I can capture capture of people that were involved. This series was created from Blackfella Films,

3:23KT: Rachel Perkins, who we mentioned in Mystery Road for Australian friends and lovers that are playing at home, Charles Perkins' daughter. So, obviously, we have a beautiful, lovely, rich lineage that is associated with this show. In regards to directors, we have Rachel Perkins, Wayne Blair

3:41Oti: I love Wayne Blair. Eternal Flame, Intergalactic Treasure,

3:44KT: Leah Purcell, Catriona McKenzie, Adrian Russell Wills, Beck Cole. In regards to writers, we have Jon Bell, Wayne Blair, Michelle Blanchard, Danielle MacLean, Steven McGregor, Leah Purcell, Adrian Russell Wills. In regards to cinematography, we have Mark Wareham, who was also as a part of Mystery Road, Jules O'Loughlin in regards to executive producers, Erica Glynn, Sally Riley, producers Darren Dale, Miranda Dear. This series premiered in November 2012, and then we had the most recent well, recent ish Promise in 2015 airing on ABC. And as far as my learned Wikipedia

4:26KT: would tell me, it is available on some Netflix's around the world. It is. So gather around friends and lovers all around the world. Redfern Now was the first series to be commissioned, written, acted, produced by indigenous Australians. Oh, wow. Some 250 jobs in the filmmaking industry. Nice. Beautiful, wonderful, amazing, and we're obviously going to get into it, you know, in our first impressions. But before we do, I wanna get as close as I can to mentioning as many of the cast as possible.

5:00KT: And while we're also here, I do wanna say, you know, I think all around the world, we we adopt the Americanisms perhaps even if we don't want to. But we we've become well versed in recognizing actors even in minimal things. Like, I've got a Spartacus watch. I'm pretty good at picking up Spartacus Australian actors, especially in American things. Yep. So I must say, I love that I am expanding my repertoire of indigenous Australian actors. It is lovely and beautiful and amazing. Wayne Blair, Dean Daley-Jones, Deborah Mailman.

5:42KT: As if I wasn't smiling and waving at the screen every time Deborah showed up. You are. Richard Green, Lisa Flanagan, Kelton Pell, Rarriwuy Hick, Kirk Page, Leah Purcell, Tessa Rose, Shari Sebbens, Miranda Tapsell, Rhimi Johnson Page. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Also Ernie Dingo, of course. Always. Always, always an Ernie Dingo. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, but again, friends and lovers, gather around, let's have a wonderful, beautiful, amazing time. Oti. Let's get into first impressions.

6:20KT: You know, we had this on the periphery, even in our Mystery Road episode, go and check it out friends and lovers. We did bookmark that we were going to check out Redfern Now. So how did you feel generally? How did you feel throughout? And I guess, where have we found you now, my love?

6:39Oti: I like you said, it's been in our periphery. We've known that it existed. We were just waiting for a time where we would consume it properly the way it deserved. Mhmm. And suffice it to say, I really enjoyed it. I think season one was such a masterpiece for me. I think it told the stories so well. And the fact that I thought it was sort of anthological sort of series where we get different stories about different people in Redfern.

7:06Oti: And I thought season two would be the same, but we got to see how it all got tied up. And I was like, oh, interesting. I really love that aspect of it. Like we said, we'll get to some of the qualms that I had where I really got frustrated in some of the episodes because I think with my reference glasses on, I just saw all the sort of problems that are everywhere, and KT was trying to calm me down all the time. So it'll be interesting because I really love this, the characters,

7:37Oti: the richness. You know, you don't get we don't get to see a lot of indigenous people on telly. And to me, seeing people of different cultures is exciting and interesting because the world is in monochrome and we love that aspect of it, you know. But yeah. Oh, man. I think this will be in a in a rewatch sort of session soon enough. Oh, absolutely.

8:00KT: It it it's it's straddled quite beautifully, you know, the hard to talk about topics, but there was definitely some levity, which just happened very naturally.

8:13Oti: Oh, yeah. Of course. And I think one of those things is being aware, you know, and this is where it comes to people telling their own stories. They can find that levity quite easily and it doesn't feel forced.

8:23KT: Go off diversity, king.

8:23Oti: I'm just saying, mate.

8:30Oti: And that's the case, you know, you get to see a lot of the time when the correct people are telling their own stories. It just makes for better viewing.

8:38KT: Where was this Oti during The White Lotus?

8:44Oti: If you if you follow the money, maybe Mike White.

8:49KT: That was a KT rage against the Oti colonial defending machine. Wow. Yeah. That's a mouthful for your racist grandparents. Me, me, me, first impressions. Like like many, I've, you know, lived out of home. There was a point in time that I lived in Waterloo, essentially Redfern. And, you know, I I guess just being a Tongan, there is that sort of kinship. Like, there's that feeling of, oh, you're one of the good fellas. Like, you're one of us. Right? So even though I wasn't Colman Domingo, possibly Yahya gentrifying

9:33KT: Redfern at the time, even though I I barely had enough loose pill pockets to keep me going on a weeknight. It it it felt very much like home, like when I grew up in Western Sydney and, you know, there there are moments of human connection you you can have. I you know, being being indigenous across the pond in the Pacific Ocean, I do have a lot of indigenous tax, and that also rolls out to aboriginal people. And I am so glad, and I love that, you know, eventually, e fucking eventually,

10:10KT: we have gotten to a point in Australian television even though it feels like we're kind of reverting. But, you know, at the time in 2012, getting to a point where we do have a wholly written produced

10:24KT: for aboriginal people. And that's not to say it can't be enjoyed by other people, but it's absolutely the same thing when we're talking about The Matrix. Like anyone can enjoy it, but it's going to hit differently and it's going to hit deeper to the audience that it was written for.

10:24Oti: A 100%.

10:24KT: And I guess reiterating when we mentioned in Mystery Road, not only is it great in way of representation, it fits the ever so snug circle of great fucking quality.

10:24Oti: It does, mate.

10:24KT: Quality in directing, quality in writing, quality in acting,

11:01KT: just the whole atmosphere of it. And, you know, unfortunately in the media, that's not necessarily the same sort of loving care that gets applied, but it was shot in a very vibrant way. Yeah. And, you know, we we talk a lot about it, and I'm sure for all of the Aaron Sorkin lovers out there who says that you can write stories from other race, which is a whole another comment, and I I'm not disagreeing or agreeing. But if that is the case, you definitely need to have consultants. But

11:34Oti: Otherwise, you end up with bloody Green Book. No one wants a Green Book. Write your own fucking stories.

11:42KT: That's pretty much it. Right?

11:45Oti: Bloody hell, man. Telling a story from a point of view.

11:45KT: Okay. This is just gonna be another Green Book rant. Let's continue. And that's why we famously don't have a Green Book episode on the main

11:57KT: feed. But I love this series. This series was brilliant and it was wonderful and it was beautiful. And unfortunately, you know, with Firebite, which is a great Warwick Thornton, shout out to Warwick Thornton. And we will be covering it eventually. There were negative reviews in regards to the show and surprise to me, there were also negative reviews for Redfern Now as well. Friends and lovers, if you're not ready to accept that the history that benefited and puts you in a great light isn't necessarily the truth,

12:36KT: then I guess you need to sit on our Jupiter's cocks because we have a hard conversation to have with you. Mhmm. Let's get into the show, Oti. Are you ready?

12:36Oti: Ready as I'll ever be, mate.

12:36KT: Alright. As you were saying, Oti, the first season in particular does follow that anthology where it does explore themes per And because I think we can both agree season one was so strong. Yeah. And we love a firm. Foundation. So naturally, it's going to be easy just talking through every episode. We do see some continuation of storylines for characters,

13:12KT: you know, going into season two and also into Promise Me the movie as well. So we can, you know, we can pick off the bones, and there'll definitely be some other themes that might not necessarily be in season one. But are you ready to get started? Yep. Okay. So the first episode, the themes in particular that I want us to address is mental illness as well as community support. So I guess just as a general sort of recap, where we have Grace

13:45KT: that is about to go on holiday with her husband, Wesley, as well as kids, but all of that stops to go and help her sister Lily. So there are two things in here, so let's just go one by one, let's address mental illness. Yeah. So we come to a point and I guess we see varying degrees of housing in Redfern Now, which again, it's just that effortless sort of filmmaking that happens because of the learnedness and because of the considered love for the people. Right? But we do see varying levels of housing

14:23KT: and Lily isn't doing so well and her son actually calls, you know, Grace's auntie because he needs help. He doesn't know what to do. You know, mom's not doing well. And I guess it's it's almost impossible to have a conversation about mental illness, especially in the aboriginal community and not be aware of the context of colonization and also dispossession.

14:51Oti: Yeah. Because a lot of the times you get minority sort of communities don't really deal with mental illness that much. Mhmm. Sometimes, you know, you just label that guy as crazy and you laugh it off because it's easier to deal with it that way. And I think it brings out how Grace took that step farther, you know, we get to see how the community is run and how everything works within Redfern in terms of even tying it back to community support. Grace has other sisters, other relatives

15:24Oti: who when she goes to them, they don't really wanna help Yeah. Either because they tried to before, it didn't go through that well or it's just not their problem or even if they felt sorry or guilty, they just don't wanna rock the boat. Yeah. Because know, because sometimes life is so fucking hard, you just need to look after yourself. And I get that. But and this is what started my my sort of bubbling in in in in getting a bit angered

15:55Oti: when we continued watching this because a lot of the time I felt like, hey, to my mind, it's sort of a a close knit community where everybody knows everyone Uh-huh. And you're pretty much your brother's keeper and you watch out for yourselves because the world is all fucking against you. Yeah. So in this world where we are trying to or you're just trying to pull yourself up with a rooster up and then you get a situation

16:20Oti: where hey, I'll just look away because it doesn't affect me, you know, and I think there's that I don't wanna call it malaise because it's not. It's more just despondency and because either they've tried it before, it never worked for whatever reason and it

16:33KT: Well, it was it was mentioned in dialogue that it has been done a couple of times and logistically, everyone has helped. So it's not like they're going out of their way to ignore Grace's plea, but it's not like they haven't been there before, which doesn't make it better. But I guess patience, resources, love and care, and especially because people had their own children as well.

17:01Oti: Like, how much more can you pour into someone else's cup if yours is empty? And we get to see this also affect Grace's family directly because the husband is like, nah. We've got a holiday. I wanna go have fun with all kids. You have a family as well.

17:16KT: Yeah. But he definitely could have gone on holiday with the kids, but he didn't. I don't think

17:16Oti: He doesn't want the responsibility.

17:16KT: Think he spent more than a couple of hours with his kids.

17:28Oti: I love the fact that Grace walked out. I was like, you deal with it. I'm going, you know, and for him to not crawl back and be like, hey, Grace, take us back. I was wrong.

17:39KT: But like, how how do we pick up the pieces of a community without hurting ourselves? And I think that was the balance that wasn't founded with Grace because she kept giving, she kept giving, she kept trying. But again, like you mentioned, not on a severe level, but her family was suffering. You know, they were talking about going for a holiday. Wesley mentioned tongue in cheek or maybe literally, you know, that you wanted this and now you're being like this and it's been two years.

18:11KT: I think one of the daughter was like, oh, let's go to Noosa. Why don't we go to Noosa? And she's like, that's not where our family is. And I guess that comes back to dispossession as well because as vibrant as Redfern is, not all of the aboriginal people in Redfern are from Redfern. And that's just the whole result of fuckery that has happened in Australia over the past couple of hundred years.

18:11Oti: Yeah. True. Yeah. Because at the end of it, we get to see them sort of

18:41Oti: accept responsibility that, hey, you know, the kids they had rotten kids, know. Grace was like, I love my children, but I don't like them. Yeah. We had Lily's kids who

18:52Oti: walked all the way to just go see her, and Grace was like, I didn't even think my kids would ever do anything like that. Walk across the room to see me. Yeah. That was sad to hear. Yeah. And then you because it it it paints you this level. Yes. You're all in Redfern, but like you said, it shows different aspects and different levels. Mhmm. And from Grace perspective they're well doing, the kids are spoilt as, they don't really appreciate what they have and

19:19Oti: contrast them with the eldest kids who hey we don't have anything but we fucking love our mother. We'll do anything to be with her. Yeah. You know, even when they were tried to they they were split up. He the kid walked all the way to get the sister. Yeah. Ugh. It's just one of the and I think this is one of the best sort of episodes I've seen just a pilot of an over show, it just set the ground for what to expect with the show. Yeah. And I've never been that pleased.

19:47KT: It it had a it had a warm embrace and it's like, why are you holding me? And then you start crying and you're like, oh, thank you. Thank you for preemptively knowing that I needed a warm embrace. This show definitely had a lot of tonality to it all and it was balanced really beautifully. We'll continue to talk about the community throughout all of these episodes. Some are a bit more frustrating than others. Barring the fact that the original Candyman was spawned off the idea of a white man,

20:21KT: we did mention what we really enjoyed about the original Candyman was that it it was the urban legend of it all. It was the fact that it affected the whole community, the fact that they needed a Candyman, the fact that they all rallied around it. And that's not to say necessarily that I'm pinpointing any sort of boogeyman in Redfern. Don't worry. I've burnt the screenplay. But but it is to say that stories can happen for characters, but wholly resonating narratives occur

20:56KT: when it considers the community around them. Yeah. And that is absolutely what we saw, particularly in the first season of Redfern Now. So let's move on to the second episode. This focuses on incarceration of young aboriginal men. Also, best friend, Coral. Coral? I think think friends and lovers, we all had that auntie that just, you know, was always bitter, always had some some insults to hurl your way, and surprisingly racist to her own people.

21:36Oti: Yeah. Y'all have Uncle Ruckuses in your family.

21:39KT: Uncle Ruckuses indeed. Boondocks reference, smooth Oti. Very smooth. So Coral unfortunately gets hit by a car that Danny is in. Danny kind of becomes a character that we wanna continue to see throughout the rest of the series. And, you know, we're also introduced to Aaron Davis, is a police officer, aboriginal police officer in Redfern. And you you start to see that sort of, you know, rapport that Aaron has with Danny,

22:16KT: you know, trying to get more intel out of him because he wasn't the only one in the car and why are you going to like why are you going to spend time just for some knuckleheads? Yeah. Right? But you know, Danny was all about that bravado and we do see him later on in the series and then he does strike up a relationship with Coral's granddaughter, which probably not the best, but I guess you say you can't choose who you love.

22:44KT: So we have Julie and I don't know how much we're going to talk about it so I want to talk about it now before we talk about you know incarceration of young aboriginal men in general in regards to Julie the way that she attempts to get to Redfern is through a taxi and the taxi driver obviously didn't clock that she was aboriginal and made comments about it and then once he realized he stopped the taxi and didn't didn't want to go any further Also double down. He just

23:21KT: and I guess that's part of the realities that perhaps if you don't have that frame of reference, especially in your if you're in Australia and you've never experienced that before or you've never heard of it before, I guess just opening your eyes to the realities of maybe not you but to other people, especially people that this country belongs to that are just outrightly it's it's like it's okay to outrightly just say this shit. Yeah.

23:48Oti: And for some reason, they think as if it's a fucking compliment.

23:52KT: Yeah. That she looks she looks quite yeah.

23:54Oti: Oh, you should be proud. Like, piss off. Yeah. Ridiculous. Ridiculous.

23:59KT: It's more than colorism, but I guess Oti, like, all cultures, yours and mine, all have some level of colorism. Yep. And Julie was definitely traversing a lot of that. And she was she was getting a lot of attention sometimes not in a good way as well for something that she can't even help. Yeah. Is there anything you wanna say about Coral?

24:23Oti: She is disillusioned by a lot. She just wants, you know, you marry a white fella and that's it. Know, they're they're better for everything. Yeah. As if that's going to solve any every any and every sort of issue. But we do get to see her grow throughout the episode and we get to see her appreciate Danny's effort that, hey, Danny's not a loser by any means. He he's scary. He came back to actually save your life. He's the one that called the ambulance.

24:51Oti: He's not a he's not a bad person. He's just a kid going through some shit. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

24:57KT: I think it also, it also hints to like informal carers, you know, culturally, even in the Tongan community, it's normal and it's also expected for like the younger, you know, female family members to take on that caring sort of role. And I guess also the reluctance for, you know, going to hospital, which was essentially what what set up, you know, for Julie to come and look after Coral because she didn't wanna have to go to hospital.

25:34Oti: Yeah. Agreed. Because Coral is super OG. She is fine by herself. She's fricked straight from the underground? I have a concussion. I will faint as many times, but I will be caught dead going to a hospital or even spend a night in hospital.

25:50KT: Yeah. But at least it does set up for Julie to come and be with her grandma. And I guess while we're looping similar themes, we also see that with Ernie's character in season two. Yeah. He was refusing help as well. Yeah. It's a thing, you know.

26:04Oti: When I got sick, like, a lot as a kid, mate, you stay with that shit. I think it's a land behavior, you know, because my parents were like, yeah, just go to the pharmacist, just get get get some off the counter sort of drugs and you're EO five.

26:19Oti: But I think once you break free from that and accept that, you know, sometimes it's okay to ask for help, you know. You don't just wait until things start falling off your body and feel that, now is the time to go.

26:19KT: Yeah. Absolutely. Oti, you've just reminded me that Danny does have an ongoing storyline, so we'll keep it for when we go to Pretty Boy Blue.

26:40KT: Let's move on to Raymond. Very, very interesting episode, and I love the ordering in which they introduced season one because we go from some really severe, really hard to talk about, really hard to look at sort of topics. And now we get to, I guess, pride. I've written I've written down pride, fraud, and also gossiping.

27:06Oti: Yeah. Raymond is angry. We know he has problems with it. Mhmm. But I thought he's he, you know, he's he's trying to make himself or trying to get elected to be a community leader Mhmm. Which is a huge prestigious award. Uh-huh. So we get to see him transversal world where he is putting himself out there and talking about a lot of things. So now when the conflict arises that, hey, he he thinks someone stomped Yeah. Them in Yeah. He becomes super angry. And he thinks he suspects everyone,

27:40Oti: even his best friend who takes it quite personally, despite the fact he was gossiping behind his back in the toilet stall. I was like, mate, you need to take a step back. You're being too proud for for for the shit you've been saying in the in the in the bathroom because at the end of the day, he he was wrong but I think you need to forgive someone especially someone like Raymond who thought that you know everyone's out to get him because how how else would Centrelink know that he's he's living there? Yeah. Interesting.

28:14KT: I guess I guess before we realized, not necessarily a plot twist because it did add to the story. But when we before we even knew that he kind of dobbed himself in, it was very plausible that someone could have dobbed him in. Yeah. And I think I think just generally in our cultures, you know, you've you've got those people there. You've got people peeking from the curtains.

28:41Oti: Don't you call it here tall poppy pop syndrome or something?

28:41KT: Yes. Tall poppy syndrome.

28:41Oti: Yeah. So it's a thing. People don't want to see you succeed or climb up because what the fuck? The harder they fall, Yep. And you get to see it all the time. So Raymond is not completely out of his mind thinking that somebody dobbed him because people do that. Yeah.

28:41KT: And I guess what I will say, even though he's the one that dobbed himself in, I really enjoyed his award speech.

29:06KT: It was really because he was calling people out on their shit. Mhmm. And I I guess that's also why I love Allie's character, you know, further on in the episodes. But, like, he was just calling people out on their shit. Like, you wanna gossip about me and my wife? Do it to my fucking face. And, you know, going back to your trademark tall poppy pop, there's definitely not necessarily notes of jealousy, but whenever someone tries to do something,

29:35KT: someone needs to be like, ah, you think you're all that. Yeah. You think you're better now. Yeah. Like, you know, we all grew up in diapers together. Like, who the fuck do you think you are? Don't forget where you came from. Yeah. But I really appreciated that Raymond, he just run it straight every time. Even though he was accusing people incorrectly, he was running straight every time. Yeah. There's and you gotta love that about him.

30:01Oti: Yeah. He's completely flawed as as a character because we know there's issues with Lorraine. He is not very supportive. No. He's been in and out of that relationship and it's an ongoing problem. But Lorraine is is is willing to bring him back into the fold, accept him, but you could tell that they're underlaying issues there. Yeah. And at the end of the episode when he kicks Raymond out just because of the sheer anger or even Lorraine at one point thought Raymond was cheating on her. Yeah.

30:35KT: They're not my sins, they're definitely not my tragedies but like my family members would laugh and dob each other in like I cannot testify in court. Sometimes it's a playful thing, but sometimes it gets a bit too hot to handle. But specifically going back to this show, it it wasn't maliciously done. Like, Lorraine had, you know, informed Centrelink that they were no longer together, and then she forgot to inform them that they got back together. So it wasn't as if she was maliciously frauding,

31:12KT: but also at the same time, I feel like she should have just kept it because it wasn't fair. But obviously, you know, Raymond on his campaign running his mouth talking about being a family man. I don't know. You know Oti, I'm always going to root for those that are struggling and those that unfortunately have to go without.

31:12Oti: Yeah. Me too.

31:12KT: Alright. Let's cover the next episode. Get up, stand up. Stand up for your eye. Very nice. Mhmm. I've titled this theme national identity versus cultural identity. This is,

31:47KT: I would say, one of the more lighthearted sort of episodes in this. And what I really loved about this episode is I didn't even realize it until we were watching this actual episode that the Australian anthem only really gets sung at sporting events.

32:07Oti: Wow. And what did you say to me? I asked about public holidays and stuff, like official ceremonies.

32:13KT: Yeah. Yeah. No. I genuinely can't recall a time, like outside of schooling, unless it was a sporting event. Wow. Yeah. So this episode is very interesting. Know, there are lots of layers when we talk about Aboriginal indigenous people, they're not a monolith. So obviously, there are different sort of opinions. And we see that with Joely's parents, know, not that the mom is fully leaning to the colonial white world, but she does understand to get somewhere, you kinda need to play ball. Right? And it gets to really heartbreaking, embarrassing, and even shameful sort of concedences.

33:02Oti: You know, at first I was scared. I was scared that Joely was was just trying to do what the dad wanted. Yeah. Without really thinking much about it. Yeah. Yeah. It's not until later that it's clear that it's him that's not feeling comfortable. Yeah. Because of the at the start, he was naive. You know, he didn't know about you know, he only had it at sporting events. Yeah. So when he was told to do research on it,

33:26Oti: he was like, okay. He did his homework. Yeah. But now I'm not comfortable singing it. Yeah. And that's bloody okay and fine and fair. Yeah. And to see the reaction of the head teacher just lose a shit. Yeah. Oh, man. Because at that point with the headmaster,

33:43KT: like, what is it really about? Is it really stops being about just singing and it becomes something else. Yeah. Like, is it really about obedience or are you scared of black power? Like, what is it really headmaster? Let's really talk about it. And, you know, it's it's it's also unfortunate because, you know, a lot of the lyrics in the Australian national anthem talk about we have boundless place to share, you know, come into our land. And it's like, it's not even your fucking land anyway. Why are you offering shit that isn't yours?

34:20Oti: Yeah. Like, I just felt this episode, in as much as it's one of the lighter ones we've seen, I think it would it would be the one that rules the most chill online. Mhmm. Just because, goddamn it. That's my country. You know? Yeah. You know, fair enough. I think Joely did well to stand his ground, see what he believed in and, you know, you can't force him to do anything otherwise. If he's not comfortable, he's not bloody comfortable.

34:42KT: I love the progression of the episode because he really was grappling with himself. Like, is it just the song and I don't care about it or does it actually make me uncomfortable? We have an indigenous liaison at the school who's supposed to make things easier. His liaisons were so secret they were nonexistent.

35:09Oti: But he ends up he's giving Joely advice that, you know, just mouth the words, just do random mouth movements and don't sing anything because that's how he's been getting away with it for all this time.

35:24KT: But what do you think? Like, you personally what do you think Joely should have done? Like, obviously, it turned out well in this instance, but what do you think he should have done?

35:29Oti: The same thing he did. Yeah. If he if he wasn't comfortable, like, I don't see why you should force someone to do something, especially when you've you're the one that told him to go and research this shit. Yeah. Ignorance wasn't the problem. Yeah. Yeah. Me, you say ignorance is bliss and that's why. Because once people have the knowledge, fuck Ginel. Yeah.

35:55Oti: I'm for him just doing what he was comfortable with. And I think we get to see other indigenous people at the school who are are probably just going along just for the bloody sake of it? Well, it's also because they're young and they're probably not thinking Yeah. Much of when someone stands their ground like that, it inspires. And that's what Joely did. He inspired a movement. Yeah. I think some people,

36:19KT: like, they just get so precious about these things. Like, I say a few years ago, was probably ten, fifteen years ago. There were parents that were angry because there was a song like the Kookaburra song. Kookaburra sits in the old country and it's like laugh Kookaburra laugh. Kookaburra gay oh life is he and the parents didn't like that the song had gay even though in this context it meant happy.

36:47KT: So I think some parents just get a bit uptight over nonsense or maybe they just don't wanna have conversations with their kids when their kids are asking questions. Yeah. It's like, let's just forget everything that happened because Because colonization.

37:01Oti: Yeah. And and let's pretend that we just all came out the wombs yesterday. Yeah and we just we just found ourselves here that's never really the case mate people have baggage it affects people well some of the baggage is checked in on their bath yeah unfortunately

37:20KT: but I guess the reason why I named this theme national identity versus cultural identity is because the cultural identity of indigenous Australian people existed before apparently Captain Cook discovered this land.

37:34Oti: Oh, man. Those people will start with a c. Columbus, Cook, all of them. Get in the bin, mate. Get in the bin. Absolutely.

37:46KT: And, yeah, it's I I I loved what it posed, and I also love that it blew my mind that I've never really heard the anthem anywhere else. Let's move on to Sweet Spot. This is where we meet Indigo. The opening of this episode is interesting because it's Indigo being interviewed and him talking about, you know, how to effectively kill someone essentially. And we learned that the person that he effectively killed was a young kid. A professional boxer,

38:20Oti: you know, I I guess just trying to offer some street advice and it just went badly. Yeah. He was trying to teach him a lesson, but often or not, you punch someone, you have no control of how they land, how that blow impacts them, where they fall, and shit happens.

38:38KT: And this is another reason why I love this show because it addresses hard to talk about subject matter, but it also doesn't, you know, try to portray characters as angels as well because it was really hard to try and, you know, give some sort of credences to Indigo for the fact that he's in jail because he killed a kid. And

39:03KT: even when he gets out and it's hard for him to adjust and, you know, a lot of the jealousy that he had, it was hard to feel for him because of what he did. Right? But just because something is hard to talk about, just because the people aren't people that you wanna root for, doesn't mean we don't address it. Yeah. I think it's important

39:25Oti: because when we watched this episode, well, we were left with the feeling of, at least in my part, I felt that something was missing because to me, Indigo just felt like someone who battered their partner. Yeah. And everything that we saw up to that point at the end where he'd supposedly learned all these lessons, I was like, okay. Good for him then.

39:48Oti: Yeah. But I felt that we've not been told the whole story. It it kind of felt like the first chapter. It did. It did. And and to our minds, we knew that season two would be completely different. So we just thought that's how it dropped.

40:02KT: But we do get to see Indigo again. Trigger warning, friends and lovers. We're not going to go into a lot of detail, but it does touch on domestic violence.

40:11Oti: We do get to see him again, and he is abusive. He's not learned anything. Everything that he was talking about at the end of Sweet Spot, it's just nothing really. And that was very emotional. I found that very emotional. It was emotional. I thought, oh, come on character development.

40:28KT: Come through character development.

40:31Oti: But it didn't. No. It didn't. He escalated. He yeah. You know, he he fell back to the same old ways. He's super jealous. He he just doesn't appreciate not being feeling like he's not controlling everything.

40:45KT: Yeah. Which is impossible.

40:47Oti: Yeah. And and even his cousin was telling him, you know, mate, you're out of jail. You've been there for a long time. Six years is a long time to be in jail. Don't ruin it. And to come out and to think that your wife cheated on you, even if she slept with someone else, for fuck's sakes, you've been in for six years. Yeah. At some point, you come out and say, I'm the fucking failure in this because I'll I left my wife for six years. And she's still there. And she's still here. And she's still willing to bring me back to to be part of the family. Yeah. I did not understand his behavior at all. Yeah. Because even even at the end of Sweet Spot, he was saying that he doesn't even care if she had sex with him.

40:47KT: So is that true? Or did he just stop doing the work so it was no longer true? To me, I think sincere.

41:33Oti: I I felt like he he was just saying that to just get out of jail at that end. I just like, he just gave the therapist what he wanted to hear. Just ABC, tick all the boxes, get up, and just fall back to your old ways because you've not been helped.

41:46KT: Yeah. He just yeah. I don't know because we we don't know what happened in in the realms of the story. We don't know what happened in that time And then the Indigo that we see in Starting Over because it definitely escalated and it's it was very sad to see. Yeah.

42:07Oti: Him getting jealous because the wife is singing karaoke at the bar.

42:12KT: Can she have her own thing? Can she have peace? Can she have joy? I was like, yeah, that that's the Indigo we saw semblance of in Sweet Spot. Well, I was worried that he would escalate in Sweet Spot and he didn't. That's why I was so taken aback when he was very physical with her.

42:31KT: And he was he was saying things like, they were the men will look at you. Where else are they supposed to look? It's a karaoke night or a karaoke night. They're gonna look at the ceiling. And and he's he's another callback to to one of the themes that we were talking about, community support. Oh.

42:48Oti: Oh, yes. Indigo's been abusing Allie for quite a while because we get to discover that from the neighbors. Yep. With Mona. Yeah. And Mona's like, let's go do something. Let just do anything. It's been ages and whatever. Yeah. And I'm like, mate, at some point Yeah. We need to start taking action Yeah. And not just sit back. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, we'll be the ones on the streets. If something happened to Allie and she, let's say, unfortunately died just because out of the abuse, we'd be out the streets

43:20Oti: holding our placards, marching, saying how unjust it is and whatnot. While it was ongoing, we were sitting on our fucking laurels doing shit all. I think we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard and be to be each other's fucking keeper. At the end of the bloody day, what if you hear someone being battered, you just don't turn a bloody you don't you do not turn a blind eye regardless of whether or not you think it affects you or not. Because the world doesn't fucking care about you. You need to care about your own.

43:45KT: Exactly. And I guess while we're here, in case we don't get time to talk about it, season two Babe in Arms, shout out to Meyne Wyatt. But we have Janine and Justin where their son goes missing. And up until that point, no one seemed to care that Janine was up, including Justin, that Janine was up twenty four seven. She wasn't getting a break. She wasn't getting any sort of support. But the moment the news report started to roll in

44:17Oti: We get to see people from the neighborhood come and drop dolls off. Mate, keep your dollies. She's been struggling. Everybody in the neighborhood knew she was struggling, and they all looked and judged. They saw her struggle. No one those women that congratulated her for having a baby, they sat there and judged. Yeah. And then for the baby to disappear and to be taken and for them to come, oh, we show support.

44:44Oti: You can piss out you can piss off without support. I get angered by that sort of thing because if you don't care when I'm struggling here and something bad happens, just don't fucking bother me.

44:55KT: Keep the same energy. Keep the same energy you had. I never knew I would be intimidated by a man saying, keep your dollies. I'll keep my toys to myself, Oti. It's okay.

45:14Oti: It's infuriating.

45:16KT: I know. There were there were many a moment in this series where you were getting frustrated about the pushback or at least the delayed perhaps disingenuous sort of support from the community.

45:27Oti: Yeah. There's there's an aspect of hypocrisy at play and it happens everywhere, you know. It's not rooted to just one culture or whatever. It happens all the time, everywhere. But to me, the same energy you have when I'm struggling, if something bloody bad happens, just keep that energy. Yeah. At least I know where I stand with you guys because that other stuff with the dollies and shit, nah, keep that. Keep that, man. I don't care.

45:27KT: Keep your dollies, Oti's beanie babies of 2022.

46:05KT: No, I absolutely agree with you and it is frustrating, But then you also understand that your people aren't always for your people.

46:14Oti: All the saying, it takes a village. That sort of disappeared.

46:19KT: Because it's like you could walk to put your flowers there and even talk to the camera. Why couldn't you walk there when you heard the baby crying? Because there were they're They seem like bloody mothers. Everyone seemed to be out in the street watching the house. So at no point in time and I guess it's also because she's white as well. However, the baby needed help and also Janine and by extension, Justin also needed help.

46:43Oti: Maybe that's it. But I don't know. Maybe maybe the fact that she's white played a part in it. Them just sitting back, but fuck sakes.

46:54KT: Yeah. Speaking of fuck sakes, the police. Smooth transition. Mhmm. Well, let's talk about Aaron Davis. He's probably appeared the most throughout this series. Mhmm. And we do love Wayne Blair. I just love seeing him. Keep the moustache, mate. That's what I was going to say. Like, that was such a funny moment. I I just wonder because it must have spawned off like a real life story of him just casually shaving his mustache and people being like, what the fuck? I feel like we see more of a critical lens being applied here

47:36KT: as opposed to Fran in Mystery Road. So Fran is, you know, a part of the police, and we talk about, you know, navigating and finding a balance between the institutionalized colonial police system and the community of your own people. Right? I think we see more of a critical lens here, more in the fact that he is fully embedded in a place that is, well, you know, just trying to find their own joy and their own place in a world that doesn't acknowledge them. Yeah. And it's hard because

48:12Oti: Aaron Davis, he cares. Yeah. We'd seen him Allie and Jorad, and how he dealt with Danny. We get to see him caring for the community. He's just not one of those cops that's like, hey, cut it out or I'll put you in, you know? Yeah he wants to get to the root it's like you know you're better than this why are you trying to go to jail because of ABC

48:33Oti: he he he's a bloody good guy yeah but good guys get tested too and they have their faults too and this is where we get to see that conflict come in because Aaron rightly so is well, he feels aggrieved. He had a human moment. He did. Everyone's allowed that. But it's what transpires after that I was like, mate, I'd given you some string, but that string's all pulled up.

49:03KT: That was very choice of words. It was a very considered choice to address deaths in custody the way that Redfern Now did in Pretty Boy Blue. It adds complexity because Aaron Davis is aboriginal and he's part of the community. And, you know, between the two of us, we had a conflict watching this show because for you, it was all about, you know, the welfare of Lenny. But for me, the issue is these are interchangeable unfortunately interchangeable aboriginal men that get shifted around in a system that will continue to allow this to happen to continue to allow racist white police

49:47KT: beating up indigenous men and not monitoring them in cells. This is going to allow these behaviors and these deaths to continue to happen. And this became more than the story for me. I couldn't separate it, and I don't think I can separate it now because as much as you talked about the community a lot in this, you talked about, you know, it was quite clear that Lenny was a nuisance to everyone. No one really pulled it out of him. Everyone could have community the love out of him and he still would have ended up in that cell neglected. That's the fucking problem.

50:15Oti: I accept that. I agree with that. But Naro like just zooming in a bit into the show we get to see Aaron Davis get a human moment where he gets angered by Lenny's comment. So he says cancel the ambulance and stick him in the pre in in the cell. But what transpires after is where I'm like,

50:47Oti: mate, I I felt you up until this point, but you you thought Lenny was pretending fine. I get that. But when he went in and saw his you know he's struggling he does instruct the coppers to call the ambulance and that's fine but now he goes on the defensive super super defensive to me if you're really apologetic of what happened it's not going to lie to Mona that hey your son died peacefully there's no suffering it's accepting

51:18Oti: that you had a human moment and in that instance you made the wrong decision and own that rather than defend and come up with ways and even he wanted to even go and steal the CCTV

51:31Oti: footage. Like,

51:33Oti: I don't know. I I I wasn't vibing with that at all. Like, there were so many moments where he got a chance. Even Mona came to him and, you know, gave him opportunities to just come free. Yep. And he never did. And that you cannot blame this community now the way he turned on him because they didn't know based on what they knew, he's a fucking dickhead. Or he was turning against them or treated them exactly the way everyone else has treated him. And that's not fair because he is there to protect his people. And we get to see that because when he was getting beaten up, Mona said, get up because this community still fucking needs you. And that's the that that was one of the most saddest thing ever because despite everything, despite all the fuck ups, we still need that bloke at the head there because the alternative is much fucking loss.

52:23KT: But again, I repeat, you can't community love yourself out of systemic inequality. You can't. The royal commission in Australia claimed in 1991 that there would be no longer any more indigenous deaths in custody. There's been 500 deaths since then. Yikes. Most of them not even investigated. A lot of them super, super young aboriginal men. It's not enough. It's not enough. And I guess the point that I'm bringing here that I'm going to bring again, you can be the best.

52:54KT: You can be the best of the best. You can be the best cop and also the best sort of person in the community. You can be like the best kid that goes to a private school like Joely. But at the end of the day, if if someone

53:08KT: with power in the police force wants to have a go at you, they will. They will.

53:08Oti: Yeah. A 100%. My demeanor means, you know, I could be the most humble of person or not. And I'd end up in the same situation as Lenny did.

53:08KT: And that's where it becomes a systemic issue. So to me, it doesn't matter that, you know, Aaron Davis was there. And there was definitely a duty of care. I understand that. But it unfucking fortunately, it's just faceless interchangeable aboriginal people and it's not fair.

53:40Oti: Yeah. I get but to me because we had episodes with closure, I'd expected a like a a growth moment where we'd get to be able to tell society of how it should be rather than how it is and maybe that's just my naivety showing but I do get your point it is systemic it is an issue doesn't matter what Lenny was like he probably would have died there regardless and that's just a sad fact.

54:09KT: I guess also looping this back in, we have Danny who had a chance to turn things around. Yeah. And I don't say that because I hate when people say it as if it's of his own choosing. But, you know, him and Aaron did have a rapport. But unfortunately, he became a pawn that Aaron threw under the bus.

54:27Oti: Yeah. Oh, they needed a fall guy and to get his saved, they threw Danny to the wolves. Mhmm. And I think that was the end of Danny because what he get for that? I think that's manslaughter or some shit. Yeah. Oi. Yeah. I just I think Aaron is is a good bloke but he's super flawed because even in episodes in season two, he just makes questionable decisions at times with the best of intentions and you know my feelings with intentions, I just yeah,

55:02Oti: I don't know, he just it was difficult for me to to fully fully love Aaron even though I like him in this.

55:16KT: No, I get what you're saying but I think it's hard for me to see past it, especially because there's so much pain that continues to be felt throughout this unceded nation.

55:26Oti: Agreed. I think my only coping mechanism for that was to zoom in especially just on what's happening within the show and sort of just ignore every other systemic shit that was happening outside. I get it. I get it. I understand.

55:40KT: I guess rounding out Aaron Davis' character, he does get with Allie, which is an interesting mix. But the reason why I wanted to say that is when they went on their dates, they left Redfern, which I thought was quite nice because it was an opportunity to get to know each other without prying eyes. Because I think that was one of the first very probably deliberate times.

56:01Oti: The only time where we see them outside of Redfern. Unless we're talking about Promise Me. Yeah. Yeah. It's good to see that though. Like, him and Allie, good match. Even in Promise Me, I think it's such a good dynamic. They're still together. They're still there for each other. Even though they're still on different sides of an argument, they still make it true, which is nice to see because Allie deserves all the best, especially with all the shit she's had to put up with.

56:32KT: Yeah. And I absolutely agree with that. Although I would put it very low in the rankings of TV proposals.

56:41Oti: Maybe Jagged Ridge took took took some tips from this. Yeah. Pretty much. Might as well do this, mate.

56:55KT: There there is one particular episode I wanna talk about in season two, and then maybe we can touch on Promise Me. There's obviously a lot that gets covered in this show, but if there's anything else, Oti, feel free feel free to jump out. I wanna talk about Where the Heart Is. As we continue to watch every episode and and digest every tasty morsel, I kept saying to you, this show really has it all. It really covers everything. It is a three sixty comprehensive insight into indigenous Australians living in Redfern. And that also includes

57:32KT: gay people. And we see that in season two. Noni Hazlehurst for non Australian friends and lovers, she is well beloved, and she was on, like, a child presenter sort of show where you make arts and crafts and sing along and skippity doo dah. So it was wild to see her well, presumably, initially, we thought she was racist, but she was just homophobic. So that's okay. Yeah. But there's there's so much there's so much pain

58:05KT: and I didn't think I would feel so much, but I found myself getting emotional every time in this episode.

58:16Oti: Yeah. Me too. I think because we called it like, it it was so, or at least we saw it coming that he's gonna lose his partner it's gonna be sad and especially the mom especially with Rich's mother being out of the picture yeah she has the audacity to come back yeah and try and take custody of the kid. Like me, the the nerve.

58:32KT: I don't care if you're black or white, it's because you're gay. But I Oh. We're not going to touch on it, but I will put a really small trigger warning here. I hate that there is a notion and there is even the audacity to connect, you know, homosexuality with pedophilia. Like, I fucking hate it. But I'm glad they addressed it in this show because the ugliness is the mirror that we need to see.

59:10Oti: Agreed. I think the cut scene was one of the most gut wrenching scenes I've seen in TV for quite a while. Yeah. The argument alone, I was like, what the fuck?

59:21KT: Yeah. There was so much sex shaming. It was disgusting. Yeah. You you know, you'd think It was like a Red Cross blood donation form. Are you engaging in risky sex? Fuck off. How much of a blood crisis do you have if you need to ask that fuck? Sorry.

59:38Oti: Sorry. I Yeah. It was triggering.

59:41KT: And there there was a lot of, again, sex shaming for Peter, which was wild. But I do like that the judge did make a sound judgment. However, he couldn't let it go by without putting a slap in the face that gay men would bring more strangers home than women. Yeah. He just had to put a little sting in there, didn't he? He did. He did. But again, I'm so glad it was addressed in this show. If anything, just to bring up a dialogue,

60:12KT: I'm sure I'll find a way to yell at the Pope and other clergy around the world by the end of this show. Okay. Let's finish off with the telemovie, Redfern Now, Promise Me. Trigger warning, this does include sexual assault. This is again, a very important topic to be covered. And it was really upsetting and I don't know, even while we were watching it, I felt very conflicted. You know, I'm a woman and I never would ever know how I would react in this situation.

60:50KT: And even if I feel like I would go to the cops, I wouldn't shame any women that wouldn't.

60:56Oti: Yeah. Me oh, like, I understand why she didn't go to the cops. That's her decision. That's fine. I think my why concern was that it happens to Lorraine as well. It does. Yes. And Lorraine struggles and she gets and she gets battered in court, you know? Yeah. Like, they really go hard for a character and by the reactions of of of the of the jury, you could see that maybe he's probably gonna get away with it. And I just started getting angry at that point because, you know, and despite

61:33Oti: the fact of understanding, I just wanna caveat that from a show perspective, I I just wanted for some sort of action to happen where Lorraine wouldn't feel like the whole burden was on her. Yeah. That she was the one on trial rather than the other way around, you know, she felt very isolated there and it just it was just really hard to watch.

61:58KT: No. I absolutely agree. It definitely wasn't an ideal situation for either of the women that were involved and it it just makes me sad when it's to to criminalize the criminal, all of the onus is on the victim.

62:11Oti: Yeah. It's a sad state of affairs. And I think this is where also Aaron Davis comes into my sort of, what did you do there, Rita? Okay. Alright. We're going for it. So Aaron Davis is a cop. He knows the procedures. He knows how these things go to trial. He's he he knows. Yeah. A married man, three children, well-to-do man. Yeah. Yeah. Then everything that happens after his daughter gets assaulted, it's like, I get that he has to put his dad heart on, but the destruction of evidence,

62:46Oti: I thought would be where he was like, I won't let you do this despite the fact that I understand, I won't tell anyone, I've promised you, but let's just skip this piece of clothing just in case.

62:57KT: Because he did say once you do it, it's done. Yeah. Like But you're saying maybe push a bit

63:04Oti: He's the dad. Even Allie was like, mate, come on. You're the dad. Yeah. She she can hate you, but you need to be there. You need to be there for her in the right way. You know, she needs to be able to deal with this. Otherwise, it's gonna affect her for the rest of her life. And as a dad in that position, I just felt like he took I don't know. I don't know how I'd react in that situation.

63:29Oti: So I'm not gonna come too hard there, but it just felt wrong, especially considering that he's a cop and he knows exactly how these things play out. And to him sit there in the courtroom and see Lorraine go through that for Lorraine to even know that hey did you guys lie to me did you not tell me? He got angry that Allie told the daughter of course. Allie would have to tell the daughter. What the fuck?

63:59KT: Yeah. Well, it's like because this is I guess this is where my inner conflict comes because I agree with you in every sense. However, it's it's hard to because you keeps you you keep referring to zooming into the show specifically, but it's so hard for me to to separate the subject matter that is being discussed and and and just focus on the story as opposed to the overall topic, right, or the theme. And as much as I agree that, you know, Aaron Davis should have done more even if it meant that, you know, he was going to, you know, sever the relationship between him and Robyn.

64:37KT: I just it's not that easy, is it? It's not. But also at the same time, I can be pragmatic when I say, I don't think this ending was very realistic. It wasn't. I think, I don't know, as the as much as I love this show, as the seasons continued, and I guess also in this telemovie, it it lost a bit of the bite that it had, the contextual sort of layers that were applied in season one. And I guess that's also here as well because in a world where you have a well-to-do

65:16KT: white married man with three kids in an affluent beautiful house, and he's saying he gets solicited by an aboriginal woman that has a debt of $60,000.

65:27Oti: If that was a news headline, we know which way that would go. Yep. It's not fair. It's not right. And maybe they try to even throw us off by the jury reaction because each and every person in that jury was like sneering Yeah. At Lorraine. And I was like, oh, this is bloody foregone. And for Lorraine to walk down that road at the end, I was so sure that he'd got out. I forgot to say he's been found guilty. I was like, okay. I'm happy, but

65:58KT: I think I think the best way to frame it is even if we could be happy, we know that there'll be so many instances in real life where this doesn't happen. And that's what makes it hard to enjoy. Yeah. Yeah. But at the end of the day, at least maybe

66:16Oti: so when you sit here and think of the messaging right it's fine for you to react however you want to react it's your pain you process it however you want that's fine

66:16KT: you mean the women?

66:16Oti: Yeah yeah what I don't understand is still leaving Lorraine there to shoulder the burden. I don't know. I

66:37KT: But maybe it's not for you to understand because that Maybe that's the case. But that's a byproduct because the focus was that Robyn wasn't ready to deal with it. Because you see the differences between Robyn and also Lorraine, and it might just be that Lorraine is older and has more life experience. Right? But Lorraine was moving through no matter how painful it was, she was moving through this experience. Right? Yeah. Robyn dealing with it, she wasn't dealing with it, right? And no

67:08KT: one should ever say when you should move on or when you should process it but in any case, wasn't ready to deal with it. And I I guess the end messaging is she didn't she they they shouldn't have pushed her. They didn't push her and they still got the result at the end. Un fucking fortunately, that's not in the real world. You need compelling evidence. In some cases, you need multiple women to come forward, unfortunately.

67:33Oti: And even then Anytime sometimes it's not even enough. Yeah.

67:38KT: Anyway. Thank you. Thank you for delivering the good news. Let's zoom back in.

67:45Oti: We love our happy ending in this. He's guilty. Good. That guy's a fucking creeper.

67:50KT: Thank you so much friends and lovers for joining us another week in the For Your Reference podcast. We're gonna finish off in a segment week call For Your Reference, Oti.

68:01Oti: I'm gonna reference Mystery Road. We've covered it before. It's just brilliant.

68:07KT: Oh, you know what a Aaron Pedersen, Jay Swan does to me, Oti. Mhmm. I am going to reference the Wayne Blair directed beautiful Jessica Mauboy, Miranda Tapsell, all of the beautiful, wonderful people in The Sapphires. Nice. You know what else is nice? OTTs on Twitter and on Twitter and Instagram. We're at for your effort. Write us on the email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on Deborah Mailman is the sunshine in my cold cold heart podcast. If you like to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.