The Sum of Us – Plumber of ’69

Full transcript of The Sum of Us – Plumber of ’69.

0:00KT: Happy pride month, friends and lovers. As pride month twenty twenty one comes to a close, you can continue to celebrate queer cinema in and outside of pride month, just like we have. If you haven't checked out our queer led film episodes that we've covered, we've covered A Single Man, Rafiki, Happiest Season, Secret Society, Edge of Seventeen, as well as today's episode. Get in, strap in, strap on, and enjoy. Hey, friends, and normally functioning for Philly wholehearted familial Thai lovers.

1:00KT: Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT.

1:00Oti: And Oti.

1:00KT: Hold on to your phallic worm and dust off monopoly fire and brimstone edition as we discuss the film with a heart as big as Australia, The Sum of Us. Woo hoo hoo. In the linear timeline Oti, we talked about wanting to see more of Schitt's Creek variety of queer characters. We did. And I think we found it down under if you're nasty. Let's get into the stats and general information of this film.

1:36KT: This film is based off a play written by David Stevens of the same name. The film was released a couple of years later in March 1995. Directors Geoff Burton as well as Kevin Dowling. Again, David Stevens wrote the play as well as adapted it to the screen. In regards to the actors, we have Jack Thompson, Russell Crowe, as well as John Polson. And if you've got your scorecards, scorecards, friends friends and and lovers, lovers, just for your reference, this is the first time we're covering Russell Crowe on this podcast.

2:08Oti: Wow.

2:09KT: And I think this is the first time this has ever been added in happiness. Russell Crowe made me cry multiple times. You thought, you know, with the Godfather posters that we have that we would have covered Gladiator first, but you were wrong, friends and lovers, and we are most definitely splooshed. We indeed we are. Let's get into first impressions Oti. You know, in the holy month of pride,

2:37KT: we always try and capture it wherever we can. So definitely get into first impressions. And I guess also the fact that we haven't covered Russell Crowe at all, feel free to share that as well. Carry on, Maximus.

2:51Oti: Wow. I'm not sure what I expected from this movie. It was a KT pick. And going into it, I think I didn't really understand what was going on. There was a lot of breaking the fourth wall, which is fine. Then by the time I got to the end of the movie, was fully engrossed and bought And I think all the emotions that KT was feeling throughout the whole movie, I felt them all in the lump sum at the end.

2:51KT: I think that's what they call a JKOT

3:21KT: Simmons crescendo in the most fulfilling of ways, my love. Shout outs to Stan, which is Australia's, if you would like to sponsor us, premiere streaming service. And we were scrolling the LGBT section and we saw this film and you wouldn't really know anything about it. I guess unassuming is the word. Even the description was talking about a father trying to navigate finding Mrs. Right while his son in his twenties is trying to find Mr. Right. So So, even that sort of description didn't really denote to anything,

3:59KT: but I'm glad we just dove straight in. And I really enjoyed this film. I enjoyed this film in every way I could. This definitely completes the Venn diagram circle of KT's crying kinks. Wow. And not straight away, like it had to win me over, but it didn't take much for it to win me over. I talk a lot about really enjoying insular, deeply personal films and dialogue sort of driven films. And that's exactly what this film was. One Night in Miami was also a very emotional film, but it's on Patreon

4:36KT: for many reasons if you've listened to any of our podcast episodes. But yeah, so, you know, you could kind of tell even without the sort of mentioning and the credit that it was based on a play, that it was going to be based off a play. Yeah, because of the dialogue. I thought it was quite interesting, the use of the fourth wall, and I guess if you wanna get into more detail, but just generally,

4:59KT: I liked the way that they introduced it, it was quite subtle at first, and then it it was just full blown talking straight at the camera. There was no wall, man. No. Neither with you nor with I, my love. I thoroughly enjoyed this film, you know, aside from capitalism trying to squeeze all of the milk out of both of our collective teats. I just wanna watch things that I love that make me feel with the one that I love forever. Like, is that so much to ask Oti?

5:30Oti: No, it's not.

5:31KT: There was quite a lot of nice Australianisms that were in this film, not enough to alienate any sort of audiences because there were a lot of universal themes that were in this film and I'm sure we will pepper it throughout the film. But I do have a note here saying the only people in the world that drink VB are the people in this movie and my dad. Because we've established that no one really drinks Fosters

5:59KT: in Australia and then the next down would be VB. I don't know why.

5:59Oti: Like I tried it when I came here and it was alright. It's more the connotation, isn't it?

5:59KT: But doesn't it just taste of being down on your luck? Wow. Are you the champion of Hoinkers, Oti?

5:59Oti: I am.

5:59KT: That's just general spiciness, but it's also a reference to the film. Speaking of spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, otherwise wholly fulfilling daddy's daddy's daddy's. I would say watch this film if you have access to it before listening to our episode. Would you, Oti?

5:59Oti: I would.

6:41KT: We are a comprehensive podcast, but also at the same time, it is a film to be felt. So we'll definitely recommend you go and check that out, but you're all super nasty and you like to sit on our Jupiter's cock. So feel free to continue listening to this episode. The screenplay that this film was based on won awards from the Australian Film Institute, the Montreal World Film Festival, and the film was named best film at the Cleveland International Film Festival. Wow. Right? So before we actually get into the film, and there is some dialogue.

7:19KT: As as much accolades as it gets, it's also very tasty in its dialogue. Before we get to that, I do wanna read a quote from David Stevens. The most important thing that came out of the play for me was that it actually seemed to change some people's lives. There were young gay people of both sexes who brought their parents to see the play and the reaction we saw was very moving and that's very rewarding.

7:44KT: I hope the film has the same effect on people.

7:44Oti: Oh, that's nice. That's nice. Being comfortable and to be able to live

7:51Oti: with your power and fully acknowledging that and just, you know, being normal about it.

7:51KT: That's exactly it. And, you know, we laud the arts and we talk about the arts and it's unfortunate in, you know, Pamela's Panini's that arts is usually one of the first to get slashed with government budgets and that sort of thing. But at the end of a hard day and sometimes to explain things that we aren't even ready to accept ourselves, arts fills in the gaps. And it's so nice to hear that this play had a healing experience

8:24KT: and it's also steeped in qualite as well. Speaking of qualite, I was doing a perusing and come and fight me and I will mention it on this episode. So I guess whoever's listened to this will hear my dirty secret. As much as I love and laud Toni Collette as being an international treasure, I haven't seen Muriel's Wedding. Wow.

8:46KT: Yeah. So hopefully that

8:46Oti: Is it not like a question in the in the citizenship test? You know?

8:53KT: It goes James Cook and then Toni Collette. Yep. But hopefully that shields me from the fact that I haven't watched a lot of Australian cinema and TV shows if we're not talking about Home and Away and Neighbours. I probably watched as much as an international person today. Wow. But I would also mention it's because I was shielded as little brown girl in places in Sydney. So, but I'll also give a shout out to those pesky Mormons and the reference that we had later on in this film where Russell Crowe was talking about

9:26KT: thinking that Joyce was one of the missionaries. But so I guess my point is Jack Thompson, he's been in a lot of Australian productions, but I haven't necessarily seen it. First Australian produced, directed story about Australians we covered on this podcast was Mystery Road, And he was actually in the Mystery Road film.

9:26Oti: Was he?

9:26KT: He was the crazy old white man shouting about the dogs. There you go. Well, there you go. And go and check out Mystery Road, friends and lovers. It's available internationally. Mhmm.

9:57KT: Anything else you wanna say about Russell Crowe before we get into discussion?

10:01Oti: No. We'll we'll love the Crowe and The Ben Kanyan the Tugger? Or is it just Tugger?

10:10KT: I will say, I I did make a note, and I do wanna get your thoughts on this before we talk about the film specifically. When did Russell Crowe become so charismatic? Because I feel like if we're talking about, like, his career and the roles he's taken, I kind of took him probably just a bit past his prime. Like, even Gladiator, I watched many years after.

10:33KT: Was he always so fucking charismatic? Because I loved him in this film.

10:33Oti: I don't know I've ever sat there and thought, oh, mate, Russell Crowe is one charismatic dude.

10:33KT: But he was in this film, was he not, sir?

10:33Oti: Yeah. But I think this is all before he became he grew into himself.

10:33KT: He wasn't necessarily

10:55KT: the son, but I do feel like there was a lot of warmth radiating out of him. Like there was a genuine warmth about him in this film. And I guess I wonder if that permeated throughout the rest of his filmography, but I really enjoyed him. I thought he was very charismatic in this role. I love how earnest this film was as well. I think, you know, there are films, especially when we're talking about queer characters where it can become very cerebral and it can become very emotional, but it's tethered to deep trauma,

11:33KT: fair enough. But also at the same time, this film somehow was able to address the hard truths, but also have more of a dynamic between the light and shade. I don't know if it's just because it was the nineties or if storytelling has just taken a more introspective sort of path. Like comparing Schitt's Creek again, Jeff and Harry had a very good relationship, but it wasn't without any sort of

12:06KT: struggle or any sort of conflict. You can see that they worked hard to get where they were to be that father and son that we see in the film. It it it's more like external sort of factors like fucking Joyce that brings that that homophobic sort of bigotry. Yeah. Right? And she can fucking, as you say, go in the bin. Get in the bin. Get in the bin. Go in the bin is a bit too polite. They can go and stand next to it. Well,

12:34KT: I will had Dugan her into landfill. How about that? Better. Non trademark, but also fatality. Go and listen to our Mortal Kombat episode. But I I 100% accolades all around. I don't like to give indications, but apparently when I feel like they're perfect, I do indications on how I'm going to rate it during Christmas. But there you go, friends and lovers. Let's get into the film. I wanna talk about something that I can never reconcile and I won't be able to get to anything else in the film until we actually address this.

13:15KT: And it's the contrast between Jeff and Greg because we see that both of them have very different relationships with their parents, specifically their fathers. And, you know, we talked about this in our Reference Degustation where we covered Boy, where Taika Waititi recorded the biggest fantasy out of any sort of sci fi out there because they had a scene where the dad said, I love you, son. I'm sorry. There are some moments that just feel great in film, but they don't feel real in real life. So it was interesting.

13:52KT: And it's always interesting to me watching stories unfold with a child, no matter how old they are, because Jeff isn't coming of age, like he's 24. Right? But it's always interesting to me seeing the child, however old they are and the parent, it always confuses me when there is genuine unconditional love because people say conditional, but they don't necessarily mean it. We're not gonna have a Cookie and Lucious Lyon situation, Oti. Oh, you okay. My love is conditional, sir.

14:25Oti: I already know you're not a run or die, so don't even bring die. In.

14:30KT: Don't bring that. Yeah. So keep your Oti coins to yourself, thank you. But it always confuses me and it is for your projection if you're nasty, but it always confuses me and I don't know what what my life would have been like if I had a healthy open relationship with my parents. But I wanna talk about the difference between

14:52KT: Greg and Jeff.

14:52Oti: Oh, you could see the difference that it's night and day. Yeah. You know, he is used to hiding his relationship from his family because that's what he he knows. His comfort is in that. Yeah. So when he came to Jeff's house and it's all open and the father walked in, he's like, oh, he stood up. He showed up quite quickly. Yeah. Went to the corner. I was like, oh, let's just pretend like we're doing nothing. Yeah. But that's not it, you know? It domestic.

15:21Oti: He described it as domestic, which is quite something, you know? Yeah. The level of normalcy

15:27Oti: he was not used to, to the extent of it being uncomfortable to him. And fair enough, fair enough. He wasn't ready to be faced by the reality of, oh, this is how things should be. And it just took a moment for him to sort of digest it all. And I don't blame you for him. I didn't think that he was being a dick necessarily. It's just a shock to the system.

15:27KT: No, I agree. I agree. And I think it is credit to the writing because

15:52KT: I didn't necessarily have a problem with Greg, but there was definitely shit that he needed to work out himself before he even can, like, considered being in a relationship with Jeff. True. But that's a very interesting scene. And I guess that also informs, like, every moment where we have Harry's character, Jeff's dad, reinforced how fucking amazing he was. But also, like I said, it's not necessarily like he was that unblemished hero. He had gone through shit and he also inflicted shit unknowingly knowingly to others and we see that later on in the film. Right?

16:31KT: So it's not necessarily he's this perfect dad. He loves and embraces and goes to gay bars with his son. All that is true, but love is complex and there are so many different layers to it. And he encapsulated what it means to love unconditionally

16:47KT: in an imperfect world.

16:47Oti: And I think that's where the For Your Reference saying, you know, this is if if we had a bingo card, this is what we say all the time. Mhmm. No one can fuck you up more than your parents.

16:59KT: Yeah. Right.

16:59Oti: And that

17:01Oti: saying encapsulates the title of the movie, The Sum of Us, because we get to see the juxtaposition of attitudes and behaviors laid out so perfectly and beautifully. And we see the difference night and day. And I think it just shows us, you know, in The Sum of Us, because it's a generational thing, we pass it all down, we know what

17:24Oti: we inflict and what we bring up, all our baggage, we just put it on to someone else and it just carries on. It's not just quirky personality traits you pass down to your kids. Yeah. Unless you go out of your way, like Jeff's dad did, to understand, to accept that, hey, I wanna make a difference, I wanna understand and I wanna be part of this because at the end of the day, I just wanna be happy. Yeah. And who doesn't want that? Yeah.

17:24KT: But it it it's also that double sided

17:53KT: coin. Right? Because I kind of understand, Greg, because if I came over to, visit your parents and your parents were openly asking about our sex life, I wouldn't be comfortable with that. So sometimes it's good to be raised in shame.

18:10Oti: Well, my parents didn't refer you to you as my friend, so it's all good.

18:10KT: I didn't know we were going to get that personal, but yes, I've been your friend.

18:10Oti: Oh, my friend? How's your friend doing?

18:22KT: But it's been over a decade. Can I at least be the mega friend or the super friend?

18:27KT: I'm still the friend. Come on now. You know what we're doing under the covers. Am I like an acquaintance after ten years?

18:27Oti: Yeah, probably. Oh, where did your close acquaintance go to?

18:42KT: So in in that sense, I get it. But like the point is don't project your shit on other people. So I kind of agreed with Greg recoiling for lack of better word at the thought of being in a relationship because they could have tried it and just catastrophically ruined each other. Yeah. Right? Albeit some nice nasty sex in between, I'm sure. But they would have catastrophically

19:08KT: ruined each other instead of just doing the work and then coming together, which is what we see in this film. You know, there there are moments when we watch films, and I I guess we're condensing the human experience of life in less than two hours. So that's not necessarily something easy or something necessarily

19:28KT: true to real life. But that's part of the problem I have with rom coms. Right? You have a fucking dickhead and then he turns up at the end as a dickhead still. Don't try and say Colin Firth in either Pride and Prejudice or Bitch and Dirt. I'll

19:40KT: I'll come for you, mate.

19:40Oti: You said it yourself. I didn't I didn't have to.

19:44KT: Because I saw you about to say the sweet name out of those nasty lips. But, yeah, I I don't think there was anything wrong with Greg. I just think he was going on a journey, and I'm glad he didn't project his shit onto Harry. Even though it hurt Harry's feelings. But, yeah, it would've that whole notion of of having a healthy relationship with your parents, congratulations

20:12KT: to everyone that has. Even if I did have that, I don't know what that would mean for me. But I also don't like the idea of like, I'm super nasty, but our family don't listen to this. So

20:24Oti: Yeah. And I'm I'm comfortable in that. I don't think I can foresee a situation where I get to be that close or how that would bloody make me feel or turn out to me as a person. It's weird. It's weird. I'm comfortable in

20:39Oti: my space.

20:39KT: Well, you sound like the people Moses was trying to convince in Prince of Egypt. Like, yeah, life could be better, but you know. Well, there's comfort in your shame. Again, check out Astronomy Club. They have a Muy Caliente sketch in regards to that. But I thought that was very interesting because I wanted to outline that I didn't necessarily think Greg Greg was a bad person. He just had shit that he had to work with, which a lot of us have to work through as well. But even,

21:09KT: like, even the fact that the his like, Harry was so accepting,

21:14KT: that made him uncomfortable. So that means you're not even ready, bruv.

21:14Oti: And I think the kudos to him is, even when he was uncomfortable and Jeff was like begging him, oh, just come. Just come back. You know, he didn't want it to turn into just a sexual thing because it's more, you know, there's more to it than just the physical sort of relationship. And I'm glad that he didn't take that route. Otherwise, I don't think they would have had towards that the end of the movie, they would have had that situation where they'd grown

21:44Oti: each individually and then they have this moment where they come, okay, we've lived our lives separately. We've experienced our own shit. Some of us have become more comfortable. Mhmm. And then let's move on. Yeah.

21:44KT: And I guess I guess we've talked about, you know, Harry, but let's talk about Greg's dad for a second.

22:03KT: Usually, this is where I say he was a fucking problem. He is a fucking problem. But also, you know, parents like this exist. Right? There's a quote that really sums it up where Greg says, my dad is someone I live with but don't know very well or like very much. I'm not judging, but I do wonder how old he was because for someone that moved out of home very, very soon after high school, I don't really know when and and if

22:31KT: people ever moved out of home unless they were about to get married. Maybe in the nineties, they just stayed home until they got married. Maybe so. Because at that point, I just go and do my shit by myself. They don't know anything True. Really. But that that's neither here nor there, I suppose. But you could really tell that he couldn't be himself at home. And I I do like that they didn't focus too much on it. And, you know, another fantasy scene where the dad said, I'm gonna beat you instead of actually beating him.

23:06KT: Wouldn't it have been nice to at least be asked first?

23:09Oti: Yeah. But at that age, she was like, you know what? Give it your best shot. Because it's not an age where my dad would never say that shit. It was more like, oh, I'm giving you a talking to. I'm not gonna try and beat you because you've grown up quite a bit. So yeah, there's an acceptance. There's a level. There's an age where the belt no longer comes up. And the interesting thing is, I feel like that's a perfect childhood.

23:33KT: That part of your stuff got invaded.

23:38Oti: Well, are other things they can do to you though.

23:38KT: True. How did you feel

23:42KT: when Greg was partying, pre partying, pre gaming before Mardi Gras? Were you anxious because you were worried at what was about to happen? Because we saw the parents were at home watching TV. So it was quite clear that he was going to appear on the TV at one point, even with his smoking gun and all. Were you celebrating

24:06KT: and all yes about it? Or were you like worried that like something was going to happen to him?

24:06Oti: No. It was clear that I gotta see him. I knew the kind of reaction that I would get because we've seen the dad talk before. Yeah. Even the fact that he was taking dance classes was a problem. But mate, those guys zoomed in on him.

24:24KT: But it wasn't like he was worried that the camera was there. He was enjoying. He was living Hey, his

24:28Oti: what are the chances my family are gonna see this? Zilch. Yeah. The minute they pan into him. True. They're like, oh, mate, those were like a whole train of people pass. Nada.

24:42KT: And I I guess this is interesting. And I I talked about Taika, you know, not long ago, but this film, I feel like delivered the depths of emotion without taking you all the way there, whether it's like parental beatings or, you know, more sort of deeper sort of trauma scenes. But this film is rated R Oti.

25:04Oti: Really?

25:06KT: Yeah, I'm not necessarily sure why, but I do love all of the emotion that was injected into this film. Yeah, me too. I guess just while we're smoothly transitioning, I just wanna mention I was on Greyhound watch and there were, I think about three or four Greyhounds that were being taken on a walk.

25:26KT: Do you think Theo would manage not being the kingpin in the household? No, he loves all the attention. He does. He really loves all the attention. But, you know, shout out to Greyhounds also, shout out again to Pride and Prejudice because there were also Greyhounds in there as well. I wanna talk about Harry. It was interesting to me, I guess, of modern storytelling. And I guess when you're aware that there are going to be gay characters, usually the coming out or the finding out is part of the crescendo

26:01KT: of the film, but we already passed that at this point when we're watching this film. And very early in the film, Harry breaks the fourth wall and he talks about his son finding Mr. Right. Yeah. You heard me. I said Mr. Right. So like he already knew that his son was gay. And I was like, okay. So that's not an obstacle we need to get through. Can we have more stories like that, please?

26:25Oti: Yeah. Definitely. I think the focus or the onus has been too much on the trauma where we need to move past that.

26:25KT: Well, it's all necessary. It's necessary,

26:35KT: but But it's think nice to have different vegetables

26:39KT: in our trauma salad.

26:39Oti: I think when you start normalizing things a bit more, that's when it seems you know, like part of every day. Like seeing a black person leader movie.

26:51KT: It stops being, oh, I love leading a Star Wars movie, mind you. But, yeah, it's just ridiculous.

26:56Oti: So I think normalizing is the next stage.

27:00KT: Yeah. But then there's also stories that can only be told and are able to resonate. So I think there's space for all.

27:00Oti: True. True.

27:00KT: Don't get rid of my sad movies. I like my

27:00Oti: Not sad that I'm getting rid of them. Just in terms of digesting,

27:15Oti: especially in the world we live in now, it makes it a bit easier

27:19Oti: to see, consume, watch.

27:19KT: Go and watch your Friends reunion then if you want something easy. Jesus. We're talking about cinema. Oti cinema. I have a note here. Harry showing Greg his garden is like my dad making Oti do all of the TV and computer stuff at the house. I'm just wondering when the urinating in the garden pit will come and what equivalent that would be. Well, you're not that great of a techie if you know urinating on like a TV isn't gonna help. You know what they say about TVs, they're like lemons.

27:56KT: I think that automatically makes it a school says he doesn't Put some olive on that shit. Jesus. Okay. Before we get to Jeff, I wanna talk about Harry, the generational trauma of it all. Because Harry's mom entered a loving relationship with Mary after her husband died. Right? And it wasn't anything to blink an eyelash at, is that the phrase Oti? Let's go with that. It wasn't enough to shake an ass at in the For Your Reference household. And it was played off as as very normalized and it's fine. But throughout the film,

28:44KT: there were flickers of footage that we weren't privy to. And that's kind of when we get to the point of Harry having a stroke. Right? Shout outs non shout outs to Joyce. It had nothing to do with her, more rather him accepting his family, really, his mother, as well as Jeff. And he has a very lovely moving soliloquy, if you will, where he talks about, you know, of course I wanted my son to find a nice girl and to have kids. You know, me and my wife

29:21KT: making a child together was such a beautiful experience and it makes me sad that he'll never have that. But everything else he fucking gets, you hear me? More eloquently, but in a KT way. True. And it's interesting because like we said, this is the first and probably only instance we've ever seen of unconditional love. But the way, the journey for him to have that unconditional love was because he has so much guilt, overwhelming

29:53KT: guilt that he didn't do enough for his own mother. Because we see because we see we see someone driven off in a car during the time that he has a stroke. And it isn't until later on in the film that we found out they were both getting older. So it wasn't necessarily they were just hateful bigots and they wanted to like separate them, but it did get to a point where they were both too old to be together.

30:16Oti: They could have found They could have found a solution where both of them get to stay somewhere Like San Junipero, Black Mirror wave. Yeah. Yeah. I get that. Selling them away from each other that it's just cruel. Yeah.

30:16KT: But with families as up as ours, any reprieve is a reprieve, sir.

30:16Oti: I know. But to me, just look seeing that scene at the end, and that's what got me. Yeah. You know? Everything else, KT was crying over, but that scene was something else. Yeah. Tearing two sweethearts

30:46Oti: as old as they are apart from each other. They knew it was coming, but it didn't make it easier on the day. No. And the family, if you just watched that Yeah.

30:57KT: Man. Because the world is going to treat and see you however the fuck they're going to see you. The people that are in your ring, that are in your corner, you would want them to be fucking happy for you. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And and then one of one of the truest moments that we have in the film, you know, was Harry talking about and lamenting

31:16KT: to love and be loved is one of the most beautiful things in the world. Mhmm. And he's and it's like it has a somber veneer now because we know that he was unfortunately participating in the breaking of such a beautiful love. As Jeff mentioned in the film, very natural. It's very natural thing to want to be with someone and and have them want to be with you. True.

31:43Oti: And it's out that the Gran didn't live what Much longer after that. So you deny a person the love, the person that they've been comfortable with this whole life and for what? Yeah. If I had to really, really dig deep and ask for more, it'd be Gran and Mary. Yeah. I'd wanted more Gran and Mary.

31:43KT: But didn't you also feel emotional

32:07KT: watching Jeff step step up and look after Harry after he had the stroke? That was really emotional for me. It was emotional.

32:15Oti: I think the bit where it got extra saucy for me is when Harry was seeing Jeff go out and pursue Greg in the garden. Yeah. And realizing that he did settle. He didn't just lose sight of what he needed to do with his own life. Didn't

32:15KT: Excuse me. That line

32:36KT: where Harry was on the fucking toilet saying the most poetic beautiful things, and he was saying that it would break his heart if his son ever gets to the point where he forgets how to love and be loved, and it was followed up by a fart and I was a mess. How dare you? Like, that was so beautiful.

32:58Oti: At least I could say this in my lifetime or insistently through art. You cried out a fart scene. Fuck off.

33:07KT: I did. I fucking did and I'll do it again, unfortunately. Oh, but this film, this film, it was like, this film was so beautiful without the fucking pretension. Can we get past all of the wankeriness and just wank ourselves in splooshes?

33:28Oti: Can we? And a lot of the fact that even when when the toilet scene farts being excused and all, it was more to show how the stroke deprived him of his privacy and all the elements that he was so accustomed to, all of us are accustomed to. And also

33:45KT: he shares in the same sort of exchange that he thought that he was going to, and he was more than prepared to do the same thing with Jeff because it was touched on a couple of times talking about AIDS. So he was getting himself educated, which is what everyone should do. And he was more than willing to be the one to look after his son, sad albeit, but also very pragmatic and and again, unconditional in all the love. Agreed, man. Man, this film is so fucking beautiful.

34:20KT: And I love it. Like, I don't even understand how you can have have such deep emotion with the without the wankery artsiness. I don't understand, but here we are, my love. Mhmm. Well, let's just talk about full blown wankers. Let's talk about Joyce. We talked about all the beauty. Now let's talk about the bigot. I'm working on my screenplay, Friends and Lovers, the beauty and the bigot. Wow.

34:43Oti: And Farth gets to play the bigot, I was talking about you, motherfucker. Okay. Dope. Surprise,

34:50KT: motherfucker.

34:52Oti: Oh Dexter's coming back. I wonder how that will be. Is it really? Yeah. Well, Prison Break came back and it shouldn't have. It shouldn't have. But I'm intrigued to see what they'll try and do to recover it. Just anything really. Yeah. I still need to finish Dexter, but that's a story for another day. Mhmm.

35:09KT: Okay. So let's talk about Joyce. Everything was going so perfectly in this film. There was definitely a lot of pain. There was a lot of resonating sort of themes, but there was no real anchorage in pain and drama. And that was fucking Joyce. I wanna talk about let's just get to the end of the film. Everything was going swimmingly. Right? And then she finds the gay porno mags. And I was so worried. I was like, oh, I hope Harry doesn't like,

35:39KT: you know, be like, oh, that's my gay son. Like, I hope he likes he's steadfast in his love for his son. And he wasn't ashamed at all. And he shouldn't be ashamed. He wasn't doubting Thomas as well, so that's good. That's a bible reference he taught me. I still have it on my browser tab. So that means I get to go to heaven. Right?

36:01Oti: Well,

36:01KT: love is a religion, mate. So yeah. If I can't go to heaven, I'm sliding down the pole with Lil Nas X. That's all I'm going to say.

36:09Oti: Devil will be looking for that twerk, mate.

36:15KT: Someone that I don't wanna see twerk is Joyce. So she she says really terrible, disgusting, deplorable things, saying, why would you buy these? And you encouraged him as if, like, looking at a gay porno mag makes you gay. If if you believe that I'm not getting into it, feel free to unsubscribe forever if that's how you feel. But thoughts? Yeah.

36:40Oti: I wouldn't agree with you that she hadn't she didn't have any trauma. Clearly, she had some trauma in her life because they kept on talking about how sad her life was prior to meeting Harry. So it's

36:40KT: But trauma doesn't make you a fucking bigot.

36:40Oti: It doesn't.

36:40KT: It doesn't make you homophobic.

36:40Oti: It doesn't. Yeah. It doesn't. I was just shedding some light, you know. Yeah. And we knew that she wouldn't

37:05Oti: she referred to the sex as be you know, giving an onion. Hey. Yeah. Of course, she wasn't going to sit there and be like, oh, I'm fully accepting to this.

37:05KT: I did make a note. Maybe Joyce would enjoy sex if she didn't call it giving her husband some onions.

37:22KT: That's I some I reject the notion, sir. So just because you're sexually frigid, that means you're allowed to be homophobic?

37:28Oti: Reject, sir. Dismissed from court. I reject it as well. I'm just saying. No one that said it. Not that it gives her an excuse. I was just saying that Not everyone deserves You pinned as as as someone who's not been through anything?

37:45KT: No. I'm just saying true fact. I'm saying there's no excuse to be homophobic. There's none. And you know what? People were given the right to be homophobic when we had a fucking plebiscite not long ago in Australia. Anyway, fuck off. I'm not hearing that, especially in the holy month of pride, you motherfucker. It would be better that you were a motherfucker than what you are right now.

38:09Oti: And the fact that Harry's resistance

38:12Oti: in telling her, we knew there was gonna be some freaking

38:12KT: And you acknowledge she's a terrible person.

38:12Oti: She is a terrible bastard.

38:12KT: But to even get there, that's evidence why you're the edgelord, sir.

38:12Oti: Why?

38:12KT: It took this long for you to just say what you should have said like two minutes ago. I think I started to say that She doesn't need the delicate hand. Didn't just tell her why was saying, yeah, she's terrible. Yeah. But she doesn't need the delicate graces that you're giving her is my point. Look

38:37Oti: at people as multifaceted

38:39Oti: and and you can't just be one thing.

38:39KT: Yeah. She's multifuck faceted. That's what she is.

38:45Oti: But she does come to realize the error in a ways, which is something that we don't get to You see quite

38:50KT: could in every other sense be a good person and still homophobic. So that makes you a shit person. That's it. It does. You can't agree with me and then also defend her.

38:50Oti: I'm not defending her, mate. I'm not defending her. I'm saying

38:50KT: This is why you can't have a wife and a mistress because you can't please both apparently. Oh, wow. Is that an invitation?

39:12Oti: All I'm saying is, she's bigoted in a ways, but she does come to see the era. She had this preconceived idea of who Jeff was and how Jeff was like and how all this

39:12KT: Boo.

39:12Oti: People are allowed to grow online.

39:12KT: Boo.

39:30KT: Strong disagree. Hard subscribe, sir. Alright. Alright. Well, that's pretty much all I have. I just wanted to note to the places I recognize, obviously, even if you're not Australian, you would have seen the Harbour Bridge, you would have recognized the Opera House, the Botanical Gardens is very cute and very lovely. You see later on in the film and also Darling Harbour. Many nights talking to Oti, not publicly wanking, but talking to Oti in our long distance, yes.

40:01Oti: Oh, yeah. Oh man, this cop footage of flicking beans of the Darling Harbour.

40:08KT: And if you see me bean flicking in any sort of old Google archives, mind your business, friends and lovers. There's a private public bean flicking. All right friends and lovers, if you've been celebrating pride month, hopefully you enjoyed it. If you haven't, stop being a fucking bigot Joyce, but you have Oti apologists over here. We'd like to finish up in a segment we call For Your Reference,

40:37KT: Oti.

40:37Oti: I'm gonna reference Get Real. It came out the same year as the movie comedy Thanks for Coming. Nice. It's pretty similar actually. A bit more darker undertones, but yeah. Definitely give it a watch. Charlotte Brittain is in it and she's awesome. We love you Seth and Jamal. Make sure you check out the Thanks For Coming podcast.

40:56KT: I've got two references. Well, one is a collective in the holy month of pride. Go and check out the films that we've covered as a result of or with queer characters outside of pride month. And also Australian wise, check out Mystery Road. We also have an episode on it. Mhmm.

41:16KT: If you'd like to follow us on Twitter and Instagram, we're at For Your Ref Pod. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on Tugger Podcast if you like to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.