Power & Ghost – Sins of the father

Full transcript of Power & Ghost – Sins of the father.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, but one it's Power August 30 mm-hmm Woohoohoo. Yeha I'm so excited. Welcome friends and lovers to Power August. We will catch you up on all the offerings in this multifaceted Power universe. they say this is a big rich world.

0:26Oti: Wow. You going there?

0:28KT: Well, you are bringing the Dre vibes. don't think I didn't forget about Dre. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and rest in peace. Stay in peace. Or I can keep some peace Ghost lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got to host KT Cement the foundation of truth with the sins of the father being passed down as legacy

1:15Oti: mm-hmm

1:16KT: Unfurl your cloaks and sharpen your daggers as we cover Power final season six and Ghost season one and season two this week.

1:26Oti: Woohoo.

1:29KT: Are you ready for a Ghost revolution?

1:31Oti: Oh, wow. Uh, ready than Kirk Franklin improv.

1:37KT: Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Friends and lovers spoilers, spoilers, spoilers. I just lost the love of my life. I just lost the love of my life. I just lost the love of my fucking life.

1:48Oti: fucking life. Wow.

1:50KT: Um, shout outs to yo yo yo Colby told me, Colby told me to go and check out his guested, our Power two plus hours, recap of the first five seasons. And also I think the first part of season six,

2:04Oti: correct.

2:05KT: Uh, so go and check that out. This Power universe has continued, you know, fuck a Thanos. I'm all about the 50 Cent snaps and the Courtney A. Kemp snaps because the offerings of this universe have been so ongoing, especially in an uncertain production release sort of world. We didn't know when to have a clean break, so we can start to cover the shows that have come out and we're like, fuck it. It's Power August, motherfuckers.

2:32Oti: Yeah. We just gotta dive in

2:35KT: but not Trey Songz because that, that song, that theme song got written out, Joe is the main course R and B singer forever. Thank you very much.

2:43Oti: Mm-hmm

2:44KT: So I think a nice way to capture both of the shows is, you know, because the Ghost kind of naturally flows on from the end of Power. So let me get into general stats and information. And for those playing at home, don't worry friends. We have a Raising Kanan and a Force on the cards as well. Creators in regards to Power, obviously Courtney A. Kemp, as well as Curtis 50 Cent Jackson. If you're nest, uh, the Power season sequel was released in August of 2019.

3:15KT: Omari Hardwick enough time has passed for me to love the man, Oti. Wow. Enough time has passed. Although we did watch some recap clips of Ghost and I'm still, I still If there's an embodiment of toxic masculinity, it's Ghost in every episode and it was Oti and Colby in our Power episode.

3:36Oti: Yeah, because I think you're wrong.

3:38KT: I don't wanna hear your thoughts about Tasha. I've heard enough. Thank you very much. Joseph Sikora, Naturi Naughton, Lela Loren and Michael Rainey Jr. Coming out of the ranks forever loved and Splooshied in our heart forever in regards to Ghost season one and two, we continue on with Courtney A. Kemp. She's also, um, going to be over at Netflix. So I'm very excited to see what the offerings will be there.

4:01Oti: Oh, for sure.

4:02KT: Uh, released in September of 2020 season one, Michael Rainey Jr., Gianni Paolo, Shane Johnson. Our Saxe has been in every episode of Power. Can you believe?

4:13Oti: Wow.

4:14KT: He's a slippery, slippery snake,

4:17Oti: uh, yeah,

4:18KT: but he's, he's the cute sort of snake that you would want to keep in your bed chambers. Right

4:22Oti: I thought he'd get the Proctor treatment ages ago. He is just sleepy. He has,

4:26KT: if I can lend, um, a phrase from Russ from Silicon Valley: Saxe fucks,

4:31Oti: he does

4:32KT: Who knew he had that Bahai between Method Man and LA Alonzo. Thank you very much. Wow. Wow. Wow. And also Redman. Shout outs Redman, Method Man, Lonzo, and also, also also no more pain, no more drama, friends and lovers. Mary J. Blige is in the building.

4:53Oti: Mm mm.

4:54KT: Wow. What gravitas? And you know, this isn't the first time we've covered Mary J. Blige on the podcast.

4:59Oti: Yeah. I think Umbrella Academy

5:00KT: as well as 30 Rock. Thank you very much.

5:02Oti: Wow. Yeah.

5:04KT: you're welcome. Uh, so there's a general stats information that this is such a rich world, friends and lovers. When we talk about loving and lording penmanship in television, and in any case with the quality of television, we're also talking about cinema Power is absolutely should be on the books. We talk about Power. We talk about Snowfall. Like these shows deserve to be day in, day out, week in win, week out, all of the discourse,

5:33Oti: They should. I think what Courtney A. Kemp has done in building this universe for us, one that I was skeptical of just because when it come to Ghost, we'll talk more about it, but wow. You know, um,

5:45KT: but The Crew Has It,

5:46Oti: It does they do

5:48KT: um, not that they need any promo, but Michael Rainey Jr. and Gianni Paolo, they have a new podcast that just came out called The Crew Has It. And what's really cool about it.

5:57KT: I really enjoy Courtney A. Kemp's episode in particular. Um, and there was a lot of talking about the world building as well, but, you know, we love, and we SP at Courtney A. Kemp and everyone that's involved, um, in the Power universe is altar. Absolutely. So, you know, Power season six, we're going to, you know, we absolutely want to talk about all of the facets leading to Who Shot Ya.

6:20KT: Mm-hmm we know who shot him, but, um, you know, we're going to get to that obviously where you already said spoilers. I wanna talk about that, but are there any sort of, um, any sort of morsels, any sort of lingering feelings and, and feelings. That you might have had for the final season before we wrap it up and go into Ghost?

6:38Oti: No, I think I was happy with how everything ended.

6:41KT: I was sure that, you know, we had all foreseen or thought what's going to happen. The only thing I'd wished for season six, um, was for Ghost to walk out, you know, come on now, come on. Like how many, like genre in the drug game and the game gaming the game. How many have we covered? If I, even, I, without spoiling, if I even mentioned The Wire, whoever was in The Wire, that was trying to go legit.

7:06KT: It didn't end in their favor. If we talk about Snowfall, whoever decided to want to go legit, it never ended up in their favor.

7:13Oti: I know, but break the mold, break the mold, you know,

7:18KT: the choke hold, the choke that G has on you. Myla

7:21Oti: Tasha's choke hold

7:22KT: Whoa. Wow. That early. Hey

7:27Oti: facts.

7:29KT: well, if, if, if everyone behaved in a certain way and we got to see Ghost pursuing that life, uh, maybe we don't get to see, um, Tariq develop the way he does, man. We've so we'll, we'll talk about Tariq obviously a lot more when we talk about Ghost, but he was, he was like the most hated character. Granted. He was a kid. And we now looking back at it, given the fact that Ghost was his father, he definitely should have been lended a bit more graces. He was a fucking hateable motherfucker.

8:00Oti: He was, uh, I don't think I'd say that because Ghost was his father. That's why.

8:04KT: Oh, don't don't you do it. he kid.

8:07Oti: You, you you're allowed to have a hateable kid

8:11KT: No,

8:11Oti: but we come to see character development and growth into

8:16KT: you. You really thought you were smooth just then didn't you? Yeah. Okay.

8:22Oti: no, no, seriously though. I think everything that happened, uh, or whatever Tariq did, it got him to a point where he got to grow. I think take out all that bullshit. He doesn't end up like that.

8:34KT: Okay. I think Ghost played a pivotal role in trying to mold him to be a better person and it didn't want. You really watched the different TV show.

8:43Oti: Ghost never wanted the life for Tariq. And we saw Tasha coming to a point where she like, you know what, I'm gonna teach you the game.

8:49KT: Yeah. Cause it was inevitable Brayden

8:51Oti: And then put the whole blame on Ghost.

8:53KT: You think Brayden's not gonna learn? However, these fucking rich white people get their rich white money.

8:58Oti: He is, but they're not gonna walk him down the fucking aisle explaining it to him.

9:02KT: Yeah. Because you don't need to do, you know, the world we live in. Okay. Well, alright, well now we're doing a, if you pardon the pun, postmortem on Ghost, you keep saying he's this lovely doting father, not necessarily a great husband, but is there anything that you felt, you know, that you are like, man, that's outta line Ghost?

9:24Oti: but no, I think I agree with everything he did.

9:30KT: Say say you're on sweaty, damp corners of the internet without saying you're on sweaty, damp corners of the internet. You fucking incel

9:37Oti: When he died, I lost the love of my life, bro.

9:42KT: well, can you go and find her and leave me alone then? I need peace.

9:48Oti: don't worry about Omar. We coming

9:53KT: I think he was, I think he was imagining more Angela.

9:56Oti: Yeah, I'm saying I lost the love of my love when this happened.

9:59KT: Oh, well, there you go. um, you know, I, again, enough time has passed. I I'm still a bit frustrated, but I kind of do wanna rewatch Power just to live in the glory again, what I will say, because I know one of my qualms, quarrel and quandaries, um, with a lot of characters, are them not tying loose ends?

10:22KT: Right. I even referenced Snowfall earlier. Like sometimes you need to tie those loose ends or also just don't be surprised when those loose ends come and try and tie your ends. Like it's just the game gaming the game at that point. Right. So I did appreciate the boldness that Ghost had in that if he felt that you were a threat in any way, although he felt that about his son, but that's a different conversation.

10:48KT: But if he felt that, you know, even if you are a periphery, not even like a tertiary, secondary character, like even if you are just in the background and you're breathing weird Ghost is going to eliminate you. And I, I kind of respected that. What I didn't care for was the whole love of my life nonsense.

11:04KT: But anyway, So let's talk about Who Shot Ya. Um, we're going to talk a lot about Tariq. So I think we can leave that for when we talk about Ghost, but I do wanna go through, um, the remaining six of the seven that was suspected. Some of them I felt were just being thrown into there, cuz it was really just a core of maybe four that we genuinely not just thought would've shot Ghost, but we would've been happy with because I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna ruin it because I don't watch shame like Oti, even if it's decades old, there was a very UNS, sanctimonious, um, unwarranted killing of a, a beloved character in The Wire and it still burns me to this day.

11:44KT: So I think there is a lot of, um, there's a lot of feelings as an audience of even if you didn't like the character, you want them to have a death that was, you know, reflective of the legacy that they leave behind. Yeah. So let's talk about Tasha.

12:00Oti: Yeah. I didn't think it would be Tasha to be honest. I think there's a lot too much history behind that.

12:05KT: Especially if we're killing Lakeisha. I, I knew her, her string was sort of at the end. Yeah. No killing for her. I know she still has it in her, but no, I didn't buy it for a second. You, I think, you know, as fucked up as their marriage was time and time again, Tasha has shown up or had shown up for Ghost in moments that never served her.

12:27KT: She was always going in a bat for Ghost. And I think, you know, as much hurt as Ghost inflicted on her, whether you wanna acknowledge it or not Oti, um, there was always a part of Tasha that was never going to cross that line of no return, whether it be death or whether it would be, you know, detrimentally, you know, hurting Ghost's chances of going legit. She would never go that far because there's a part of her that still loved

12:53Oti: And the fact that Ghost was still the father to, um, T and Yaz. She was never gonna do

12:58KT: Nevermind Yeah, no, no. Um, even though every time Tasha wanted a dabble wanted to have a little nibble of a little sum, something and Ghost knew very well that he wasn't seeing Tasha till the end of days, he just had to scrap a motherfucker and it wasn't fair.

13:17Oti: No, there's fair. And there's also rubbing it in when you rub it in the, you are actually, oh, oh, oh, oh fucking Taha. You know? Nah, he deserved everything he

13:28KT: Wow, Silver. Yeah. Also Shawn

13:31Oti: Ghost had nothing to do with Shawn.

13:33KT: I would say killing the lovers is rubbing it in, but I guess we just come from two different worlds. My love

13:40Oti: There are people you surely,

13:42KT: you. you, you can pick up to no Ghost. Nah. all right. Well, let's talk about Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, my favorite favorite favorite. Mmm. And I just love, I love that Force just came out and we'll obviously, um, pivot to Force when we get to it. Um, obviously there was a camaraderie between the two and, you know, even listening back to our Power, um, two plus hour extravaganza that we did, you know, a lot of us gave praise to one of the best parts of the show was the dynamic between Ghost and Tommy.

14:14Oti: Oh, the relationship was, was really, really good. And I think seeing that sort of diminished throughout the seasons, it was understandable, but it was, it

14:22KT: your, your best friend put Tommy in jail. That's why in season two was very early.

14:27Oti: He had to do that to get him out safely. He was, he was already on the crosses. He didn't want to listen to whatever Ghost had to say. He was part of, he was in the game, not wanting anything outside of that. Understandable. But at the end of the day, Ghost still got him out. You know, he went against Angela to do that.

14:45KT: And you know, that meant a lot to Ghost. I didn't know we were entering the simple diaries this week, but there you go. Um, interesting. I didn't for one second, think that Tommy shot

14:57Oti: Tom No, cause we have a scene where Ghost did try to shoot up Tommy. He shot up Tommy's car

15:02KT: and we, yeah. And it was a little sort of, um, tension cliff hanger sort of moment. Yeah.

15:08Oti: Yeah. And, and I think if Tommy was to get Ghost, it would be understandable.

15:12KT: And I think it would be one of the most acceptable ones to me at least, you know, like you referenced The Wire. And I was like, yeah, if they did something off, off the cuff crazy, then I'd be upset. But Tommy I've been. Yeah, for sure. But this is what I'm saying. And you know, there's that, there's the, there's the craving of family. There's the craving of belonging. And Tommy had that, you know, very early in the seasons, you would have Tommy surrounding the family, you know, them having breakfast and him drinking his orange juice.

15:41KT: Like that's something that Tommy always craved. And I'm so glad that got explored in Force. But again, um, we'll talk about that when we get to Force, but I think that meant more to Tommy than running the streets, even, you know? Oh,

15:55Oti: I think Tommy cares about loyalty more. And, but

15:58KT: but that's what I'm saying. I don't think Tommy would ever kill Ghost,

16:01Oti: Ghost has betrayed Tommy so much.

16:03KT: I I know

16:03Oti: that. I feel like Tommy would've been, you know what?

16:06KT: look at the way Kate, his mum treats him

16:08Oti: well, that's, that's,

16:10KT: giving him that redhead complex.

16:12Oti: Yeah. But to me it just made sense if he was Tommy, I think there was a lot under the bridge for him to justify that shit

16:19KT: someone that really understands Ghost's character. It seems like you don't get Tommy at all because I don't see any scenario where Tommy ever would've killed Ghost. There were moments between him and Tariq, where it was a bit touch and go. But when you talk about Tommy and Ghost, they really are. When you think of like Scorpion and Sub-Zero when you think of Naruto and Sasuke, when you think of like the biggest rivals Goku and Vegeta, like when you think of the biggest rivals in, you know, storytelling, Ghost and Tommy are one for the books,

16:49Oti: Half of those people try to kill each other

16:51KT: but that's my point,

16:54Oti: just because they're unsuccessful doesn't mean they didn't want to.

16:57KT: and you know, there's no point talking about Ghost with you, but I will say, you know, I, I don't believe Tasha would ever kill Ghost. I don't believe Tommy would ever kill Ghost, but Ghost would absolutely kill Tasha Ghost would absolutely kill Tommy.

17:10Oti: Yeah. Ghost will kill anyone that gets in his way.

17:12KT: Except Angela. I feel like Angela's the only exception and that's why it hurt so much when Tommy shot Angela

17:19Oti: Mm-hmm yeah. The, the worst things to do to Ghost and kill him. yeah.

17:26KT: okay. Well, um, let's cover some characters that I didn't really feel like they were going to be. And I probably would've been really mad if they were the ones to pull the trigger on Ghost: Paz.

17:37Oti: Yeah. Oh, I would not throw on my phone.

17:39KT: foot. Russell Christal or Naomi Campbell.

17:43Oti: Naomi Campbell brings the energy, so I'd go with her.

17:46KT: Okay. But Paz, I get the death of Angela was, wasn't core enough.

17:52Oti: Yeah. And, and, and she, she has the right to be upset, but she knew if anything, yeah. Ghost would be the last person to do that to Angela. She needs to know that shit. Yeah. She brought all the wrong energy in the wrong person. I was like, come on you, you keep on insisting.

18:06KT: It was Ghost up until the very fucking end. I'm like, you, you can't, after everything they've been through and of everything Angela's told you, you should know that that would be the last person ever. She was very emotional. She was very emotional and it, it, it it's understandable given the fact that she never wanted Angela to be with Ghost.

18:24KT: So she blames a lot of that. And a lot of Angela's decisions, even though she was a grown woman. Um, but a lot of the decisions on her affiliation and her, you know, sort of Tris, you might call it a relationship. I call it a tri um, with Ghost, but deep down you're right. Like if she had, if she thought about it for a second deep down, she would know that Ghost would

18:43Oti: yeah. Get that shit outta your system. Like bro, Angela's a grown as woman. She can make whatever decisions she wants and that energy just fucking sucks. Ugh.

18:52KT: I, I must say, Oti. I, I, I know you as a well rounded human, but the venom you have for particular characters, it doesn't take Agatha Christie to tell what sort of characters you get frustrated at. Speaking of characters that we get frustrated at Dre, man, I've been living a good, good life dipping into all of the Power worlds. And I forgot about Dre.

19:18Oti: If it was Dre, I would've, I would've been angry, but I would, it would be at his fucking wheelhouse.

19:24KT: Yeah. But oh, but I don't think he would have the gravitas to, for me to feel satisfied.

19:30Oti: And that's the point? He's a slimy ass. He's been slimy ass throughout. And that's the most slimy thing you could do to end Ghost yeah. And deserve it. And, and so much like Dre

19:40KT: Yeah. It's on brand. Absolutely. Um, but you know, like Tariq was right there. Like, like if, if it was going to be anyone, um, I don't know if, if you were to ask me leading up to it, um, and we might have even talked about in the episode as well. I didn't want that Forry but I think it makes a lot of sense now that we move into, like the newer shows, it, it kind of was the only way to end and to close the chapter on Ghost and to start this legacy.

20:10Oti: I see that now, but when it happened, I was fucking pissed because he might as well have just been Dre

20:15KT: cause we hated Tariq at the time

20:19Oti: it felt very Kendall. It felt very a kid trying to be thinking that he's a gangster just because his dad showed him a few tricks.

20:28Oti: You know, you've been born in, in the life of a fucking street king, and then you think, oh, it's all mine because you know, it's transferring exactly. I'm like bra that experience. Yeah. I, I was reference.

20:39Oti: I was like, I cannot, I cannot even fathom this. I was so upset

20:43KT: for someone that really loved Kendall from Succession. I just wanna point out that you're comparing him to a teenager. I think that's a compliment for Tariq then, um, let's finish off the other suspects that we had Tate,

20:58Oti: Uh,

21:00KT: but Ghost did him dirty. So many times

21:02Oti: He did it daddy, but I think Tate would've backed out at the very last minute,

21:07KT: like, found a way to like pen a deal or something instead he's

21:10Oti: he's I know he can do some shit and he's done some shit.

21:14KT: Yeah. And I think getting one of his series up and running would be really, really cool because I need to know how he became that. Yeah. Because he, he is clams on bodies. Yeah, I hope so. Because we, we, we talked about it in our last Power episode, but I'm reading reports that it potentially might have gotten axed and considering the release that we've had for the shows, I think it might have, but friends and lovers raise the roof, tell the pees. Cause I would love to see a Tate, like, spin off.

21:42Oti: Oh yeah. Yeah. I would say his reasons of wanting to kill Ghost. I just didn't think everything rode on him being a politician. And I think he's done so much. Yeah. For him to risk it all just for Ghost,

21:53KT: Mm.

21:54Oti: especially for him to do it himself. I can see him hiring someone else to do it.

21:58Oti: But for him to pull that trigger, nah, nah. Yeah,

22:01Oti: he's too far up there. He's like what Ghost wants to be. Yeah. You know, and I feel like once, if Ghost ended up being in the political life, he would not come back down and kill people just because

22:13KT: I feel like Ghost's end goal would be like Eric Adams. Like that's, that's where he envisions, but in real life or in the real Power life, he's Tate. He's not Eric Adams.

22:27Oti: Mm-hmm

22:28KT: Um, I guess the last one to finish off on, surprisingly, according to the credits, uh, Saxe has been in every episode of Power, possibly every episode of, um, Ghost as well. I didn't think it was like, but to be fair, Tommy and Ghost did have him tied up. Like, so maybe. Saxe is a survivor from all accounts. Saxe is a survivor. And I don't know, maybe you can articulate into words. I there's a re I kind of respect Saxe's game, but I don't respect Dre's. Can you explain why

23:00Oti: it felt very Monster anime when you get Inspector Lunge, thinking everything that happens wrong in the world is Tenma's fault. It felt, and I was like, okay, Saxe.

23:08Oti: You need to come down and look at things objectively Ghost and shit, but it's not all Ghost. And he had such a hard on, I felt like, okay, you you'll justify all that shit that you do to try and get him, but he's still not a killer. He, he, he cannot pull that trigger. No, I felt like if he went up to that club, he'd find a way to get himself shot. Yeah. he's like Bri from

23:31Oti: Yeah.

23:32KT: God it Bri

23:35Oti: Bleeding all over the carpet.

23:38KT: but you're right. Like Saxe was very, um, he, he was like a dog with a bone. Like, it didn't matter what it was. He was gonna find a way to get Ghost in jail. He was gonna throw the whole book at him. Um, so to speak. So, um, I guess, I guess that's true, but why, why then is it not, we don't respect Dre's game of being a fucking cockroach.

24:00Oti: Dre because Dre is all about himself.

24:03KT: While Saxe has a cloud of distorted sense of justice. Exactly. Okay.

24:10Oti: at least you can see Saxe is trying to do something, right. Uh, however fucking clouded it is. Yeah. With Dre it's fucking self serving on its best. He doesn't care about anyone else. True. He doesn't even care about his daughter. He fucking killed. He killed someone with a daughter just being there.

24:26KT: Yeah.

24:27Oti: Oh, come on, come on.

24:29KT: Even Ghost will never do that shit. Well, let's not speak about Ghost too much. but wow. Wow. Wow. What a series in and of itself in its own sort of orbit, Power really offered something new to our, at least weekly watching

24:47Oti: It did, uh, it has a lot of love, uh, uh, and I love to see that, you know, it's a really, really good show if you've not watched it, just get in, you know, uh, you you'll be pleasantly surprised at just how amazing and what fucking story building that goes around that.

25:04KT: And to even know that there's a spinoff in Ghost, that is fucking Yeah.

25:10Oti: Whew. Yeah. Why not both feet dive in?

25:13KT: Absolutely. Absolutely. So let's, let's move into Ghost. There has been two seasons of this show and there's been some, some big reveals, um, for some of the characters as well. I wanna quickly double into some themes before we start talking about the characters, because I think, you know, when you talk about the ordering of the shows, you can call them books, you know what, call them whatever the fuck, because at the end of the day, the input and the output is absolutely fucking brilliant.

25:42KT: Um, but you know, obviously there are a lot of like, um, there are a lot of posts on like Black Twitter. Like you can call it whatever you want, but I'm gonna call this Tommy. Like

25:53Oti: it is Tommy

25:57KT: but in any case, whatever the packaging is, we fucking love it. So, um, naturally it made sense that Ghost would, and it does pick up right off of Ghost's death as well. Um, I'm just going to put it out here. You know, there there's obviously articles. I don't get it. I love Omari Hardwick. You know, he's, he's safe, he's safe with me.

26:18KT: I'm not going to hurt him. Um, Dre, Dre, Rotimi maybe is a different story. Um, but I don't care for these rumors about Ghost coming back. And I want to talk to you Mr. Number one, fan. Why, how do you feel about these rumors about Ghost potentially coming back in some shape of,

26:36Oti: Nah, he's dead. Keep him dead. I

26:37KT: I think ,

26:38Oti: he'll just ruin whatever it is that they've built already. Yeah. I don't see anything that it solves. Okay.

26:45KT: Other than trying to just pull more episodes of Power. Power's, Power's done, and it's fine to be done with Power. Yeah. Because now we have Ghost Tommy Tommy he just got it. he just got it, Tommy, um, and Raising Kanan and coming out as well.

27:00Oti: Yeah. And hopefully Tate as well, you know, hopefully it's not scrapped and, and that's wonderful because you're building on everything that O, Omari laid out, you know?

27:10KT: So he's not forgotten. Yeah. You know, we still think about Ghost every time you see fucking Tariq. Yeah. It's all, it's all there. It's all there. And especially seeing the mannerisms of Ghost in Tariq. oh, well that, that's the first theme I wanted to come to, um, closing the chapter and I guess opening a new one for, to legacy.

27:27KT: I wanna talk about legacy and you know, , there's a lot of whiplash because if you, if you would listen to our Power episode and then this one, it makes no sense why we fucking love this little thing so much like that goes back to the penmanship of Courtney A. Kemp and the staff, because. There was no way there was zero.

27:51KT: There was another, there was no chance that we ever would've. If, if there was any sort of character that we would've turned around on, I feel like you would've loved Tasha. You would've fallen in love with Tasha sooner than you would've had any sort of resonance for Tariq. And again, that just goes back to the quality of this fucking show because where we got from a to B was a whole journey.

28:15Oti: Yeah. It's like someone telling you, uh, you know what, in Game of Thrones, we'll get JRE to kill Jon Snow at the end, and then we'll get JRE at his own show.

28:26KT: I'll be like, yeah, no's good. I wanna watch that shit are you looking forward to House of Dragons?

28:34Oti: no, uh, I'm not really. I think my expectations just bloody Lord. So I'm just gonna go in without any,

28:40KT: we, we had a heart open for Power, so maybe House of Dragons, you don't need to imagine the dragons anymore.

28:45Oti: Oh,

28:48Oti: okay. Thunder. Uh, I will, I will, I will just say that. I did not expect to, to see, to grow that much or even cause I went very skeptical. I was like, oh, you know what? I'm just gonna watch it because Courtney Kemp, you know, we love our work Uhhuh and see where it goes. I wasn't even gonna see think that after the first episode or the second episode, we weren't expecting to be bored in, but we had a lot of attacks,

29:10Oti: but at the end of the first episode, I was like, okay, what, what, what, what, what sorcery is this? what voodoo is this

29:20KT: Well, I think it's like, if I can go back to your Succession sort of reference, you know, there's a lot of big man talk right out of Kendall's character in Succession. And I think you could also lend that to Tariq as well in the sense that, you know, he's saying all of this shit is wrong.

29:36KT: All of this shit is bad, but it's all under the guardianship of his dad, whether it be Logan Roy, whether it be Ghost. Right. And I think, you know, not in a toxic way, just as like a grown adult, not as a grown man, but like with Tariq's character. How he dealt with the fallout, whether it be the death of his father at his own hand, whether it be the conditions in the will of him having to go to uni and to complete his education in order to satisfy the criteria of the will, whether it be having to find money to pay for Davis MacLean's, you know, legal fees, whatever it was, every challenge that was thrown at Tariq, he handled it, he fucking handled it.

30:24KT: Like I can't even fucking explain it, but I'm getting emotional now just thinking about the growth of Tariq's character, because a lot was happening with him and, you know, he was running, Kanan as well, you know, doing his pre gangster, you know, post gangster shit with Kanan, um, and a, a, a lot of it, what you could kind of say was just him being a young kid, trying to navigate the world.

30:46KT: And even though he is a young kid, when we start off in Ghost, he is owning a lot of the responsibility, whether it's responsibility that was passed down of the death or the murder of his dad at his own hands, or whether it's all of the periphery, you know, sort of external factors that are thrown his way, he is owning it and he's taking care of it. And I think that there's absolutely a lot of respectability in that.

31:10Oti: Yeah, there is. And I think it's good to see sort of the contrast in how he would deal with situations he found himself in. Yeah. And how Ghost would do cause that, that juxtaposition where, ah, we know how Ghost would've done this shit and it's interesting to see the deviations in what Tariq does and how he wants to handle things going forward.

31:30KT: But I think also at the same time, the time that we meet Ghost in Power, he had already been hardened by the streets many decades over true, you know, like Tariq is just coming into his own now. So it will be interesting. It, it will be interesting to see how much more, you know, how much more jaded he is by the experience, or does he find, you know, another way, like, fuck Jabari, like fuck Jabari and the clicky claims and we're going to get to Jabari, but I fucking like, and I've been talking about this so many episodes recently of treating people like their animals in the zoo.

32:04KT: You can do that to your own people. Cause that that's what Jabari was doing. Mm-hmm he was profiting off the trauma and experiences of what the people fuck off.

32:11Oti: He wasn't even writing his own shit at that point.

32:14KT: No. Call him Drake's team cuz he was the ghostwriter all along. Um, but the legacy, the legacy is really interesting. Do you think, do, do you feel like it's organic, the growth that we've had with Tariq

32:28Oti: it's it's super organic and I think that's what I didn't expect.

32:32Oti: I thought it'll be forced. I thought it'll be, oh, we are doing a Tariq spin off now. So we better love him. Yeah, it wasn't that. Yeah.

32:40Oti: With every, we, we, like you said, we picked up straight off from where, um, Power finished off and to see him navigate that world and find himself in situations that are not, you know, are super tough for Tariq, you know? And he still wants to take care of Yaz. Yeah.

32:56Oti: At the end of it as well. So it's the fact that it's organic is what makes it unbelievable or I didn't even think there was a possibility of it happening that way

33:05KT: Yeah, and I like it will be interesting, you know, please, please give us many more. Um, I guess if we're going to have a Ghost, well, who knows Ghost might, we might even see a young Ghost in Raising Kanan. Right. Um, but it would be interesting to see how he was at Tariq's age because we know how Ghost was at the start of Power.

33:27KT: And I, I guess we can only imagine, you know, sins. Sins of the father and all that. Um, it'll be interesting because, you know, Tariq still has that sort of compassion, right. Even if we, you know, will come to Raising Kanan, but, um, you know, Kanan is a very, is a very, um, impenetrable character. in Power, same as Jukebox as well.

33:48KT: Um, but the first season of Raising Kanan, he's just a fucking kid. Yeah. He's just a fucking kid and you know, that's what I'm talking about. So we're seeing Tariq as we've grown to love him now, but I guess we can only imagine as, as more shit gets thrown at him, how that's going to calcify his character and I guess who he was all along or who the streets made him to be.

34:13KT: Right. So that's very interesting. Um, like I, I love that we are loving the shows. I wanna move into the next one because we talked about Ghost and we talked about Tommy. Um, I wanna talk about Tariq and Brayden. That kind of felt like an out of the nowhere sort of brotherhood to me, but it definitely grew on me.

34:33Oti: It did because we get to see, we get to see Brayden in ch- in Power. Right? Yeah. And then they come back in, in, in, in, in, in Ghost. And I see, I see the friendship developing. I see there's something forming bigger.

34:48KT: I can see a, a mini Ghost and Tommy. Yeah. And I was in for wasn't there also a part of you. That's like, ah, cuz he is a white guy. They're gonna make it, make him a Tommy

34:57Oti: part. Yeah. Part of it was that way, but I, I think Brayden is, is likable enough to, because he is navigating it completely differently.

35:05KT: oh absolutely.

35:06Oti: He's not Tommy he's the farthest thing can be from a Tommy. Yeah. So I think that dynamicism is also good at, so also see him sort of grow into this world where he was like, oh, we'll just sell drugs and see how it is. And he

35:17KT: he's proved his must so many times.

35:20Oti: Yeah.

35:21KT: Let's talk about one of the most pivotal moments of this brotherhood between Tariq, Brayden in the courtroom. I, Oti, Oti, Oti. I did not know. I did not know. Right. When we're talking about whether Brayden is going to continue to uphold the establishment, IE, his family, IE, the Weston legacy, or whether he was going to be there for Tariq. What did you think? Because I, you know, you know, you said that you it's understandable if Dre did it because it was in his character.

35:53KT: It was in his nature. I love Brayden and I don't think it would've been in his character, but again, via his succession, you kind of understand the choke, hold that daddy money. So, I don't know. I, I would've been very upset, but I also would've understood if Brayden wasn't there to hold it down for Tariq. What were your thoughts before? I guess that scene came into fruition?

36:15Oti: No, I, I would've understood it as well, just because Brayden made it sure to tell Tariq multiple.

36:21Oti: Yeah, don't fucking do this. Yeah. Don't do this to my family. Yeah. You know, it, as much as my dad would land. Okay. Or whatever, just don't, you know, it it's, it's, an felt that once that friction cause started a friction starting building where Tariq and Brayden weren't really sharing everything. Yeah. And it seemed SARS. Cause Brayden knew something was up, but he didn't know what was going. Hello. Kanan was coming by and having joy rides with Brayden. Like at that point he's in whether you want him in or not, he's in.

36:51Oti: true. I think once that, once they experienced that friction and then those, oh man, he's got to go to a court room. Yeah.

36:59Oti: I was like, yeah, he he's definitely caught through under the boss. Yeah. Which I would've understood. I would've been happy, but of like what else can you expect?

37:07KT: No, but then I also wouldn't want him around anymore friends and lovers, Brayden fictional, albeit or otherwise is a perfect example of holding your privilege and being a fucking ally because it's it's, if we're talking about literal survival and inconvenient of, of, of blackface photos that they took themselves, like , to me, it's a non contest, right? at the end of the day, you're still gonna be rich at the end of the day. You could probably, you know, all the Weiners of the world, like once, twice a Weiner, like what really are the repercussions? You know what I mean? When, when, when you are powerful and you have the money and the systems exist for you to thrive, what really are the punishments true?

37:53KT: It was a beautiful moment. And again, I wasn't expecting Brayden to go for bat to Tariq, but now I just want them both more than ever to succeed. I just wanna touch on, uh, T Tasha and Yaz for a second. Okay. It's interesting that Tariq has to pick up the pieces of Yaz and her situation, um, even with the grandma, which I really don't wanna between her and Patrice Woodbine, like I just

38:22Oti: They can get in the bin. They

38:24KT: can all get in the bin.

38:26Oti: oh, Patrice Woodbine, bloody hell. Oh my God.

38:30KT: She's keeping your, your dreams pic.

38:33Oti: oh, man, that, that, yeah. I'm not forgetting that truck anytime

38:37KT: Yeah, Oti's gonna have a separate Sandman spinoff. the Woodbine Chronicles. um, but it's it's so it's so beautiful and it's so heartening to see Tariq choose his family on more than one occasion, you know?

38:54KT: Cause I know you don't, I know you are, you are the pro-Ghost camp, so you're not gonna say anything bad about Ghost, but the fact that he didn't really leave enough to set up his family for whenever he's inevitable, cuz you know, when you're in the game it's gonna happen. Eventually there were many times where it was a bit touch and go with Ghost's mortality, um, albeit his name, pardon the pun.

39:14Oti: No, it was super understandable. It's not gonna leave anything to Tasha that, that, that much was clear.

39:19KT: but why did Yaz have to be the chap? No.

39:21Oti: Cause Tasha should have done enough to secure her future. Wait, Tasha's been in the game. Tasha is not some, some bloody Tasha is not some innocent person.

39:30KT: You think that is she's in wit leave the fuck alone.

39:35Oti: but I I'm. I'm glad that Tariq is super hard on trying to get Yaz and protect Yaz and be with Yaz. Yaz, you know, it's, it's, it's admirable.

39:42KT: It is admirable. Absolutely. Um, speaking of admirable and you, you also talked to, you touched on it when we were talking about Power, Ghost wanted a different life. Although his upbringing wasn't set up for him to have the life that he wanted. So that's why we have Tariq going to tr that's why there's a stipulation in the will about him furthering his education in his canonical studies.

40:06KT: Um, what are your thoughts? What are your thoughts on this? If we think about Ghost, always talking about what he wanted, what he wished for his son, his, him like getting rich or getting legit or die tryin' he just died instead. Like what do you, what are your thoughts on this particular theme between Ghost

40:26Oti: particular? Uh, yeah, I think it's sad that ghosty have a life, but you know what? He tried to make it out the way. He only knew how, and it didn't work out because people had the clothes and people wanted to live in a certain lifestyle, which is sad. But I think Tariq, he has the capability to shape his own future, you know, to make it how he wanted it to be if he wanted to secure his life so that he can get out, pretty sure would be easier for him.

40:50KT: but don't you think it was a bit too naive of Ghost, like cuz obviously getting an education is very important, but don't you think it's naive of Ghost to think that in these sort of spaces there wouldn't have been criminal activity, especially drugs.

41:05Oti: No, you can have all the criminal activities, you can get whatever, but it's, it's getting your foot in the door, which is most

41:11KT: What are you talking about? Him and Brayden are running a whole drug

41:15Oti: They are, but they're gonna get a degree at the end of it.

41:22KT: through polo pipe, right? Oti.

41:25Oti: get a, a degree.

41:26KT: Yes.

41:27Oti: So

41:27KT: they're gonna be, they're gonna be stacking papers, but they still have the, you know, business, business credit out there, legit. no, but what I'm saying is there was a naive that Ghost had that if he like in educated spaces, that there isn't fuck shit going

41:44Oti: I don't think he thought

41:45KT: in political spaces there isn't fuck shit

41:47Oti: I don't think he was, I don't think he was stupid. I don't think he was Stringer Bell thinking, oh, this politicians don't fuckings ass. I don't think it was anything like that. I think he, he just knew the importance of having that paper and being legit because he struggled. People always saw him as a thug.

42:03KT: He did not want you sure. Not because he was like closed fist punching everyone.

42:07Oti: No, because people always saw him for, for his background and, and that's all he was mm-hmm and he tried so hard. Even with truth. People just saw it as, oh, truth is, is, is not legit. It's just some gangster, probably washing money off it mm-hmm when he fought so hard to make it legit.

42:23KT: But at the end of the day, his background is what people saw for Tariq. He wanted different. You get that, you get that degree. That's your background. But you think him being one of the few black people at a prestigious college, he wasn't already getting attention.

42:38Oti: it doesn't matter. The struggle will always be the struggle.

42:41Oti: But at the end of the day, you sell your drugs on campus, but you still have that paper when you go out there and you start a business, someone's gonna think, oh, did you sell drugs? When you on campus? No people are gonna be like, oh, this kid wants to some prestigious Ivy League school. And that's it. That's the bottom line. Anything else or whatever experience you'd have in, he didn't send him there to fucking sing kumbaya or join a glee club. No,

43:03KT: I think, I think you're living in Brayden's world too much. Cause I think more people are like Tariq and not Brayden.

43:09Oti: I'm just saying, you, you do whatever shit you want to do. And I think that's all of the things when I was growing up was like, you know what?

43:16KT: You gotta do whatever the fuck you want to do with your future, but go to uni, get that paper and then you can do whatever fuck you want. And that's what I did. You working on your screenplay or?

43:25Oti: Yes, I am.

43:29KT: um, well, I, I wanna talk about the king pins and I guess the way that Ghost is set up, the kingpins that we have is Lorenzo. Um, who's currently incarcerated, but then we have Monet. Who, who would you say now? Like now that we're two seasons deep. Who would you say was in charge? Would you say Lorenzo was still in charge? Yeah, right. Yeah.

43:50Oti: Yeah. Lorenzo controlled the shit out of

43:51KT: Monet talked a lot of big man shit, but she was really

43:56Oti: minute she went into that cell bra. She bent over so quickly.

44:02Oti: What hell

44:03KT: don't you dare speak about holy Mary like that. How.

44:06Oti: No, it was wild. Wasn't it?

44:07KT: no.

44:08Oti: out there. She was like, even to her kids. Yeah. You

44:11Oti: know, there was no warmth. There was no love there.

44:13Oti: Diana would say, good morning, mom. And

44:17Oti: Monet would have the fucking energy of, oh, the meme factory, the meme factory of Ghost. Oh,

44:25Oti: You'd see. The once she was, she was, she was talking to Lorenzo. I'm like, wait, is this the same person?

44:31KT: Yeah, no, no, no, no. I get it. I get it. Lorenzo

44:33Oti: you saw that. Yeah. The minute you saw that you knew Lorenzo is definitely in charge. Doesn't matter where the fuck it is. Yeah. And didn't even when he got out of jail, the panic.

44:41KT: Oh, that that five minute was like, oh man, the kids are the only people that were happy. Yeah. Because she was trying to make moves without him. That's the thing. Right. So let's talk about the Tejadas. Um, we've kind of already get given a bit of a tasting, messy, messy. I pretend to speak Spanish and I feel like Tejadas means messy because man, to be fair, it wasn't Lorenzo to be fair. It wasn't Lorenzo. It was all really Monet,

45:08Oti: Monet is architect of the mess.

45:12KT: oh man. But we have such a stacked cast. Um, you know, in Ghost, obviously Mary J. Blige, it was nice seeing Woody McClain, you know, our Bobby Brown. Like it was just nice seeing him fuck shit up on this show. Um, but I guess with Monet, I guess it was interesting and it it's in no way, um, you know, slut shaming or anything, but it was interesting the way she ascertained her power with the power of the pussy mm-hmm cause we saw that with the cop.

45:42KT: Yeah. We saw that. Absolutely. With Mecca. And like you said, with the conjugal visit. We saw that. Absolutely. But you know what and same thing with Raquel, um, in Raising Kanan, you use the tools, you have friends and lovers I don't know. It's like if, if I just leave my love for Mary J. Blige to the side, Monet was not running a tight ship,

46:06Oti: No,

46:07KT: but I think that if she had just been an efficient tool IC, I think everything would've run very smoothly. I think the complications started to arise when she was out and step and trying to make moves without Lorenzo.

46:19Oti: No, I think it started when she started, cuating came to the kids.

46:23KT: Okay.

46:24Oti: know, your kids, you know, your kids Cane is a fucking loose cannon.

46:28Oti: Yeah. You cannot. He he's the only one, if he, if you had to do that to Dru fine, Dru has some fucking mental faculties to think things through before he acts Uhhuh Cane, he's all emotion up in there. He would do shit just because he's angry.

46:42KT: But do you feel like there's something that like, I feel like there's something more than that. Like there's, I wouldn't say it's a hatred that Monet has, but there's something about Cane that she's like, do you think it's because her it's her first born of Lorenzo and she never really felt like she loved Lorenzo. Like what do you think it is?

47:00Oti: I don't even know Lorenzo doesn't even like Cane, did they adopt Cane? No.

47:08KT: I think he was the product of the Bobby Brown mounting of a Ghost.

47:11Oti: a probably fuck it. Hell no. None of them like Cane that's true. Cane is only close to Dru and Diana that's the only ones that talked to him was if he's fucking human Monet treats him like a gangster, you know,

47:25KT: but even though no, but that's. But if Lorenzo was on the inside, like Cane kind of became what Monet needed him

47:32Oti: Exactly.

47:33KT: Exactly And now you hate him for it.

47:35Oti: Yeah. He's exactly what you made him. Yeah. Don't no, don't pretend. Yeah. You know, every shit he's doing right now is because of fucking Monet. Absolutely. So when you've created this monster and now you're not happy with him and you're like, let me tos him to this side because he is doing exactly what I taught him to do.

47:52Oti: Yeah. Nah, bro. And then you, you, you rely on Dru who was supposed to be this fucking but he was insulated. So he never, he never had to make

48:00Oti: those decisions. Yeah. Because Cane was always there to protect those fucking idiots.

48:05KT: Thank you.

48:05Oti: you. Fuck. Cane had to do all the heavy lifting so that Diana and Dru could have this insulated life.

48:12KT: Absolutely.

48:12Oti: And now they want, because Lorenzo wants Dru to lead the pack because he thinks Dru is smarter. But every decision that Dru is made

48:21KT: Oh, it's he's led with his Dick. just, he's just led by the Dick.

48:30Oti: Oh man.

48:32KT: I don't think he's any better. Um, but I guess just while we're talking about Cane, do you think, cause he, he is very much from the factory of Tommy. Like, do you think he could be the head of,

48:44Oti: he will never be the head

48:45KT: No, but I'm asking you personally, we know he's never going to, that's very clear. You just mentioned both parents don't love him, but do you think Cane could be,

48:53Oti: um, no, I think it's too erratic.

48:57KT: I think he represents what the streets have been, not what they are or what they will be.

49:03Oti: Yep. He, he's not exactly Marlo Stanfield. He's , he's out there trying to cause hark every time, you know,

49:10KT: he's kind of like, uh, Michael from snow.

49:13Oti: Yeah. Yeah.

49:14KT: Who we see in Raising Kanan

49:16Oti: So, I don't think you'd be able to lead. I think that's up to Dru or even bloody Diana, but wow. That family came crumbling down faster than Kevin Spacey's House of Cards.

49:27KT: Wow. Thank you for tainting the universe. uh, yeah, I like I, but I do love Cane. Like I just love Cane and again, I kind of see similarities between him and Tommy. So maybe that's why I really love him in any capacity. He's gonna thrive, like in any capacity Cane's gonna thrive because you know,

49:48Oti: he looks after. Number one.

49:50KT: Yeah, because he's not waiting on the love from his mommy and daddy.

49:53Oti: No, he wants that love. He

49:55KT: wants, but he's not gonna get it.

49:56Oti: He, he, he continually seeks out love from Monet. He continues. He, he, he lays down receipts.

50:02KT: Monet was so mad when Dru got shot.

50:04Oti: Yeah. And then you blame Cane for it. Yeah. Cane, who said I would've been there to take that even to protect them. Yeah. From the, yeah. But it's Monet who told me to fucking get out.

50:14KT: Yeah, absolutely.

50:15Oti: So yeah. Monet was everything that happens bad to Dru, Diana's, Cane's fault.

50:20KT: But even if he's a loose cannon, you need to keep him in the camps. Cause he is gotta go and course with like shit outside of the camps

50:27Oti: least pretend you listen to the guy. Yeah. Listen to his ideas and say, give, give it some thought, take a night.

50:33KT: Pretend as if you're gotta think about it. Oh. In our Genny from Gomorrah, um, as well, very similar sort of origins as well. Um, Dru, I kind of don't really care about Dru to be honest. Um, he kind of reminds me if we're allowed to talk about Jussie Smollett he reminds me of his character in Empire.

50:55Oti: Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

50:57KT: Like he just wallowing around like, are we, are we gonna do the damn thing or are we gonna do the damn thing? Mm-hmm , that's kind of how I feel about Dru. Like I understand that there should be a space for love, but Cane ain't waiting on love. it's

51:11Oti: the game.

51:12KT: Do you have any, do you have any thoughts, hopes, or predictions for Dru's character?

51:17Oti: or he's gonna end up killing his boyfriend because Lorenzo will tell him

51:21KT: yeah.

51:22Oti: And it's gonna Spann him and it's gonna go down a whirlwind,

51:26KT: Patino in, he, you can't have collateral. If you're in the game, you can't have collateral. And I think like it's unfortunate, but I think Dru needs to learn that lesson. And unfortunately, like you saying, he's gonna learn it in a very, very sad way. But I don't think he's fit to lead either. but then that leaves us with Diana.

51:45Oti: Oh, daddy's little girl.

51:46KT: But do you think she's capable of

51:49Oti: leading?

51:49KT: I think she, by default because of the other two.

51:52Oti: Yeah. Just, just, I feel like she has the capacity to do

51:57KT: She has a level headed.

51:58Oti: Yeah. And I think the, and this is where Monet bloody infuriates me. You have kids who are in the game. Yeah. And you kept them so far out. Yeah. You don't share anything. Give them fucking crumbs.

52:10Oti: Tell Diana why she can't get Lorenzo out of jail and we're in the 2020s, right? Why is she acting like she can't go to get an education? Yeah. What is this

52:19Oti: bloody hell, man. Just give her something. Yeah. Give her anything. And she would not have done whatever she fuck. She would've done. Yeah. Ugh. Annoying man. Every, every fucking issue that happened to the Tejadas.

52:30KT: There's no one else to look at but Monet. Follow the Monet. Am I right? Mm-hmm yeah. I just like, it's interesting to see Diana, I I'm really starting to root for her. Um, especially leading up to the end of season two, because she's really, she's really proving her must as well. And you know, there, there was a lot of her kind of waiting for the affections of Tariq, which I think will always kind of be there. He kind of inherited his fuck boy shit from his

53:00Oti: mm-hmm

53:01KT: um, but I think Diana is definitely one to watch.

53:05Oti: watch So I think, are we going to talk about the, the hard Red Wedding?

53:12KT: we, again, friends and lovers. We were watching recaps, um, of Power season six, as well as Ghost. And as soon as we saw Zeke's face, how you going to be a grown 23, 24 year old thinking you're 19 years old. Like I know it's not his fault. I know it's not his fault. And I know it's not funny, but that's around the age.

53:37KT: We start taking fish oil tablets. Like how you, how you not have some hours on the dance floor and start your knees. You don't have those Megan knees anymore. Zeke, I'm sorry. I know it's not funny, but

53:51Oti: No, it's funny. wow. I think, you know what Manzi they casted him perfectly. Fuck it.

54:04KT: Oh man, Diana, Diana, Diana, Diana. And it might just be because she's Monet's daughter, like whether she wanted to or not, but she got that sharp shoot of sharpness, man.

54:16Oti: Mm-hmm

54:17KT: cause she just really, like, I don't know. I'm all about airing out and you know, making sure that as a family unit you're talking about shit, but I don't know the way she went about it. What do you think?

54:30Oti: Yeah, she was about chaos. There was nothing else to that. Yeah. Wow. She wanted, she wanted everything out. Yeah. She threw the linens on the panties, under everything in exposing it to the world,

54:43KT: but that wasn't her panties to throw

54:46Oti: It doesn't matter.

54:46KT: She grabbed them still. Wow. Wild. Would you, would you say that that was one of the most surprising reveals in television we've had in a long time?

54:57Oti: Yes. I think that was one of the most chaotic things I've seen the most intriguing things I've seen in a while.

55:03KT: Cause, cause cause obviously there are layers to this. I think there's a part of us that kind of had an inkling. That Monet was the mother of Zeke. I don't, I think it was there. If you wanted to, even before Mecca said our son, maybe you could think that, but the bombshell to me was his age,

55:21Oti: Yeah.

55:22KT: especially, especially when Monet's like to Carrie, like stop running around with this young little boy's like the hospital together when they were born.

55:38Oti: what? Oh man. Zeke, Zeke, Zeke. He was so unassuming. Yeah, he was just sitting there on the table looking dumb as

55:47KT: play. He just,

55:52Oti: Oh, you mean I'm.

55:58KT: I. Sorry.

56:04Oti: Uh, like I, I love that scene. I think everything unfolding and everything being out there was good. That relationship was never gotta be mended. I think it was, you've lied to Zeke for 24 years. That's not coming back from that.

56:22KT: well, I stop at 24 let's to 28.

56:25Oti: and that was the expectation. And I think it was wrong for Monet to use Zeke as he as hard ticket out of the game.

56:31KT: Yes. That shit is fucked up. Yeah. Nah, especially when you know he's not 19 and he's 24, come on. Now, people thinking that you've got an engineer in, in the basketball court when it's fucking grown ass, man. I'm glad for a show that has a lot of quality and, you know, in all the best points it delivers. What great dramas should do. I love that it really had such a ridiculous.

57:01Oti: Yeah. I think even, even the fact of how Zeke fucking died was hilarious.

57:07KT: Stop up, stop. of

57:08Oti: that's where he is gonna die.

57:10KT: Stop. well, let's, I don't even know if we could stop laughing, but let's talk about his final moments, cuz I think we both agreed, even though we had to pause and rewind like 10 times if Diana spill spilling the tea on his age, um, that final scene.

57:28KT: Cause I, I think even before we got to the final scene, like we both made comments about the fact that there's really nothing left for Zeke's character. Like unfortunately as a character in regards to the overall plot, he's served his purpose, but he doesn't necessarily have a lot more to do. So he doesn't have a lot more to do in the show, but I wasn't expecting him to die that episode.

57:50Oti: no, I saw that coming. I was like, yeah bro, you've served your purpose. There's nothing else you can do

57:55Oti: this show. Your relationship with Monet is nonexistent. Lorenzo. Lorenzo's gonna accept you in the household.

58:02KT: Yeah. And wait, can we make it clear that Lorenzo never knew? Yeah.

58:05Oti: Yeah. Lorenzo never knew he was as shocked as everyone else.

58:08KT: He just didn't have his dumb face on when killer like Zeke no, I can't. I can't. Um, at Mecca, like we knew what was gonna happen. Yeah. Especially for you to be a kingpin snitch. Yeah. You're not getting the laugh you want But I also think, you know, power of the pompom and all that, but there's absolutely a risk with the power of the pompom, because I think, you know, Monet thought she could dabble in both worlds with Lorenzo and Mecca, but it's like, you can't do that.

58:38KT: Like, or, or, or at least you can, but you can't choose the consequences of the power of the PO.

58:45Oti: yeah. Come to think of him. Monet has a type, eh,

58:50KT: even the cop, right. Did think Zeke had a type

58:58Oti: thought he was getting the,

59:03KT: oh man,

59:05Oti: about the same age.

59:07KT: pull one out for our home music, but fucking hell at that point in your big age.

59:16Oti: but it's sad. Imagine thinking you're 19 living as if you're 19 or living as if you are you're younger, you know, but five years only to realize man, but I think the underdevelopment Jesus Christ is aye. Yay.

59:32KT: But there was a, like, I, I, I do feel sorry for Zeke, but there was a added layer of sadness when Cane acknowledged that he wasn't the oldest. Cause I think as much as you know, he was like, you know, Monet gave him nothing. Lorenzo gave him nothing. He, he felt secure and his title is the oldest.

59:50Oti: Oh shit. I even for forgot. He was older than Cane.

59:53KT: There was a, yeah. stop making it funny again. No, cause there was a moment where Cane was looking at Monet being like I'm not the oldest or something like that. And that was very heartbreaking. You Dick it.

60:06Oti: Oh man. Geez. There's some serious underdevelopment in Zeke like, wow.

60:12KT: He lived thinking he was five years younger and I guess the body doesn't know what the mind doesn't, you know,

60:17Oti: Hey, Hey, Hey. When he got to puberty before everyone else, by some years, he should have gotten hair. Like when there's still babies out there. Duh, he didn't know. He didn't sense.

60:34KT: I didn't know.

60:35Oti: My voice is breaking while still people are screeching in this, nothing.

60:39KT: I'm surprised that we got this far in this recording and we haven't got a me thirsting over Method Man. We had a double Method Man-avaganza with Belly as well as the Concrete Cowboy and your Zeke antics has distracted me from Method Man.

60:54Oti: no like, uh, Zeke just BD Viva.

60:57KT: He should have been caution. He, he should have been wondering what, what the fuck ages ago? Five ages ago,

61:04Oti: man. Wild man. Wild

61:06KT: Wild times let's, let's go to Davis MacLean. Um, obviously we can talk about Saxe's Jenny Sullivan was interesting because again, we established that Saxe fucks um, and even she became quite useful, um, later on in the series, at least to our purposes, because we love Tariq and Brayden, um, and also to Tamika, Tamika was definitely energy. So I want, I wanna talk about like, you know, the legality of it

61:32Oti: No, it was good to see buck going, do his stuff. I think seeing him being all Doty and unapologetically, so was good. Yeah. And the fact that they had a thing with Carrie as well. Yeah. So he he's been around, he knows people. Yeah. He knows people know he's hearing shit, but he doesn't care. at the end of the day, you can't prove that he's done anything wrong. Mm-hmm and he's all about that life. He's all about that paper.

61:55KT: He's all about that cheese. If you pardon the pun

61:57Oti: Mm-hmm and it was good to see him get Saxe to join his team because man, in as much as you might not like Saxe, he's effective as

62:06KT: far. Oh, he's fucking effective. and it was interesting. A couple, a couple of times Saxe would make a comment about whether this was right or whether this was justice and MacLean's like, I don't care, motherfucker. They're paying like it exactly. It doesn't matter what my client did. I'm gonna defend them.

62:23Oti: Yeah. And I think that's where we also want to see Saxe evolve.

62:26KT: Yeah. Where he, he, he turns off the public defenders. I think he always will be

62:30Oti: Yeah. He's not a government worker anymore. Once he he's turned private he's with MacLean, he needs to switch that all. I think it'll be fucking unstoppable if he does.

62:40KT: Oh, absolutely. I think it's going to be unstoppable no matter what he used his, was it his niece to get close to Brayden? So he's not, he's not opposed to throwing people under the.

62:50Oti: No, he is not. Yeah. I'd forgotten about that. That's wild.

62:53KT: Do you think that, I think maybe like, do you think there was, that was one of the first sort of testings for Brayden?

62:59Oti: Yeah, it definitely paid a big part because we saw at the end of it, Brayden didn't say shit.

63:04KT: Yeah. But there was a little bit of a tussle because you know, Brayden wanted to get his and you know, it kind of felt like everything was about Tariq, right? Like why can't this girl be interested

63:14Oti: Yeah. I think once, once let's circle back to the friendship a bit, I think the biggest test for me, for Brayden and Tariq's friendship is Lauren.

63:23KT: Okay. Because we know Brayden left Lauren. She was like, yeah, I'm not gonna kill you. I'm gonna let you go. But we know what happened afterwards with Effie. Okay. Effie Okay. But are we saying, and I, I see you distracting from my method, man, but anyway, let's go where we are going. Are we saying that Lauren is.

63:39Oti: Lauren is dead kill Lauren.

63:41KT: There's nowhere way Effie leaves Lauren alive, because Effie has it in her head that Tariq's mine to get Tariq's love without any distractions. that. I think it's that there's nothing else. don't. I don't think it's that think about Jemma from The Chi, like there's a difference in upbringing. There's a difference in privilege.

63:59KT: There's a difference of life experience. And Effie understands that Lauren knows too much, but she doesn't know enough to, um, curtail her own mortality as well as Tariq's. You know, she, she unknowingly in trapped Tariq in that recording that Lauren wasn't good for the operation.

64:19Oti: She wasn't good for the operation, but she got out.

64:21KT: I think there's some Glenn Close jealousy going on between Effie and Lauren. Well, why don't you ever talk about jealousy when we're talking about the men?

64:29Oti: Who's jealous.

64:30KT: you just said Effie was jealous. That's why she got

64:32Oti: no, no, no of Jabari's fucking jealous there. You have it.

64:36KT: Okay, cool. The

64:37Oti: The Crew Has It.

64:39KT: the Dick over? He has it. No, but I think you're simplifying it because Effie understands that you need to not have any loose end. So she actually did. Tariq a kindness. I don't care for the fact that you're simplifying it of the boy.

64:53Oti: I think it's both. I think he can be both though.

64:55KT: Nah Salberg

64:56Oti: All right. Alright. But I think that was the biggest test. If, if Brayden did kill, went through and kill Lauren, I think that friendship with Tariq is.

65:05KT: They're never coming back. That's like Tommy wanting to follow Taha around the world, trying to kill her. Okay. He made a good decision to walk away from that situation. Mm-hmm that was the biggest test, in my opinion, that would later come to find out the repercu repercussions. So are you saying for, for real, for real Lauren is dead.

65:21Oti: I don't see how she lives with Effie around, especially with Effie note making some weird ass faces. Nah, I know she definitely did something.

65:28KT: Yeah. But I, I, I guess again, we go back to like, unless we see them die on screen unless it's Ghost, but unless we see them die on screen, they're never really dead. I think, I think it also depends on does Lauren being dead serve more of the purpose than her being alive and coming back because her, that, that would be an interesting arc because again, like Jemma from The Chi, she's never really been tested.

65:55KT: She never really will ever understand what Tariq's gone through. Not to say that Effie fully understands what Tariq's going through, but you can see there's some sort of overlap. There's some sort of filling in the gaps, right? This might turn Lauren into a villain story.

66:09Oti: Yeah. Because at the end of it, she thinks Tariq set her up.

66:13KT: You would too Tariq gives you some go back, tells you to go with some random guys. And then those people that told me to go with, try to kill me. There's only one deduction to be made from that. So yeah. Tariq is definitely in the crosshair. Lauren is still alive. Okay. Because you can't explain that shit away. Yeah. It, it's going to be interesting season three, which I believe just finished wrapping up, but obviously takes time for it to come out, um, in post production and be released.

66:39KT: But it'll be interesting. It'll be interesting. I think Lauren staying alive will be more interesting from a story point of view than her being dead, but then her being dead means that Effie needs to deal with the repercussions of Tariq's reaction to that. So there's obviously, but then he would still react to the fact that she attempted to do something, even if she's alive. So anyway, it's gonna be very, very, very interesting.

67:02KT: Uh, well, I guess let's, let's stay in our canonical studies. Um, Jabari thoughts on Jabari. I know we touched on him a little bit, but what do you think about him? Is he, is he, is he dangerous or is he just a harmless parasite?

67:16Oti: He's fucking dangerous. He's he's the worst kind there is

67:20KT: right answer.

67:21Oti: you know, he's there.

67:22KT: He knows how it is. Like he didn't like, he didn't like Tariq in the oh, absolutely.

67:28Oti: It wasn't because Tariq, like he, he is fucking Uncle Ruckus.

67:31KT: Yeah. Or Regé-Jean Page's most notable role, Chicken George.

67:35Oti: Yeah. He, he just fucking hates black

67:38KT: Yeah. like, like he, he treats other black people the way white people look at him. Mm-hmm but they're not the reason they're looking at you that way. Yeah.

67:50Oti: It's wild. Like, uh, cause everything that else he does is alsoso yeah. You know, he, he, he wants this toxic relationship with Carrie

67:59KT: when he wants it,

68:00Oti: when he wants it. Yeah. And then goes on and becomes jealous because carrying someone

68:05KT: Yeah. You know sounds like Ghost, but anyway,

68:07Oti: and then to even think that Tariq was the one, like he had Tariq was the, was at fault for everything. Yeah. Everything, poetry, Tariq. Uh, he, he deserved his ending.

68:17KT: was a lot of work he needed to do within himself because you're right. He was projecting a lot on Tariq.

68:22Oti: And then, and then take your bullet mate. Don't don't start crying. oh, this is not you. How do you know him? You've been saying he is this bud motherfucker all this time. Live by your word.

68:33KT: yeah. Yeah, because the character joy you were painting him as was exactly what you got in the

68:39Oti: Yeah.

68:39KT: Stop, stop. Trying to pretend as if or no. he became the beast that you created in your mind. So what the fuck is wrong with that? And I think a lot of the things that we don't agree with, something that we do agree with in this household is when you have characters meeting their end, just fucking accept it.

68:56Oti: Yeah. Like don't, don't try and persuade Tariq, calling him, or this is not you and shit.

69:03KT: When you've been painting him one way. Yeah. You know, take it just, you know what be like, fuck you guys oh, come haunt you, you know? Uh, but like him. Yeah. I feel like if Ghost did become educated and became a lecturer, he would be Jabari. Yeah. Go on. Go on.

69:26Oti: You're just drawing straws right now. No.

69:28KT: Anything you wanna say about Carrie?

69:30Oti: I felt sorry for how she died. Yeah. But everything in between, I was frustrated at like, she didn't deserve that,

69:37KT: but she got what I didn't like about her. And I guess maybe this is where her and Jabari did the avatar, tentacle and tethering together was as soon as she felt like her back was against the wall, she threw Lauren under the fucking bus. I

69:52Oti: Oh yeah. She was ready.

69:53KT: I didn't like that. I, I wouldn't say it was like, I wouldn't say that she felt like the way that Jabari felt about black people, but we had a vulnerable young black woman and she chose to throw Lauren under the bus to try and save herself. Even though she was tangibly culpable,

70:10Oti: I wouldn't say she's like Jabari, just because she tried to actually help Tariq a lot, you know, she, she went out of her way to try and she saw a lot of the shit that Tariq had gone through and felt like, okay, I need to take special care here. I appreciate that. You know, and I, and I understand where she was,

70:26KT: Okay, well then she's not for women then,

70:28Oti: but towards the later stages where when that stupid cop came into the life, I started pushing her when she was up against it.

70:34KT: That's when she was like, yeah, I'm gonna be off for myself. You know, that's when she dropped Lauren, that's where she I don't think that was right.

70:41Oti: Yeah, it wasn't right. It wasn't right. But up until that point, she tried to do everything right. You know, and IFT indeed was at fault for anything she found out Jabari and anyone in that fucking position you'd wanna turn that in.

70:55KT: If you're not for the. No,

70:57Oti: If you're not in the game. That's shit, man. I, I, I can't blame Carrie. I can't blame Carrie for trying to do that. She was just trying to do the right thing. She just got real real quickly.

71:05KT: Well, I, I don't agree with a lot of what you said, but what we can say is that she wasn't a predator because they were probably the same age, Tariq

71:16Oti: yeah, she's got that crossed off list.

71:21KT: um, but yeah, Monet did a dirty, but you know, if, if without getting morbid, but I guess from. From the point of like storytelling, at least we saw Monet do something and get her hands dirty. Cause I think a lot of the time she just waited for Cane to do that shit. Yeah. True. Okay. Um, well, you know, we've covered a lot, uh, but I do want to talk about Tate for a little bit.

71:45KT: I do hope we do get some sort of, um, you know, some sort of presence I do wanna spin off, but it was, it was nice to have him in Ghost. Um, and I wanna see him more expanding whether it's a spinoff or whether it's more in a, in Ghost season three. Um, how do you feel about Tate as a character?

72:02KT: I don't think I learned anything new about Tate here that I didn't already know, but we got more screen time.

72:06Oti: We got more screen time. We saw him, we throw him, throw his brother under the bus, like yeah. That's Tate, he will do anything to, to, to get himself an advantage or to serve himself. Okay. And, and that's how we, and that's why it would be so interesting to see how he got to be like that because we know he pulled some shit.

72:26KT: Yeah. I think it brings, um, an interesting sort of element with him in politics and his brother being in the police as well. Like I think that's going to be quite interesting to dissect the layers, um, you know, in the upcoming Ghost season, but you know, there's a, there's a respectability that I'll always have for Tate and I really wanna see more of him.

72:48Oti: it Mm-hmm a hundred percent.

72:50KT: Ooh. How was this first iteration of Power August for you, Oti?

72:55Oti: Loved it, loved it.

72:57KT: Whoa. We usually finish off in a segment. We call For Your Reference, but because this is a highly energized Power August we've got going on, our recommendations would be Power, the TV show, Ghost, Raising Kanan and

73:11Oti: mm-hmm

73:11KT: Force or Tommy.

73:13Oti: Tommy.

73:13KT: If you'd like to know where Otis power is on Twitter and Instagram, we're at ForYourRefPod.

73:18Oti: write us an email. hello@fyrpodcast.com.

73:20KT: We're also on rest in peace. Stay in peace so I can live in peace Ghost podcast. If you'd like to leave a rating and review, and we'll see you guys next week,

73:29Oti: Check your birth certificates in case you're five years older. See ya.

73:36KT: Take them fish oil, tablets, friends and lovers. Bye.