Patron Preview – Ref Plus Dec 2021

Full transcript of Patron Preview – Ref Plus Dec 2021.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and it is another national treasure opening of our Ref Plus vault, Oti.

0:08Oti: Mm-hmm

0:09KT: Um, we've had a very busy, busy last couple of months, uh, 2022 if you're nasty. Um, so this week we will be sharing with all of our beloved mainstream friends and lovers our December, 2021 Ref Plus.

0:26Oti: Plus, which is kind. um,

0:30KT: talked about the infamous Enemy with Gyllenhaal and all those spiders. Uh, and we also, thanks to our patron Julio, he asks the question of what was the difference of podcasting pre 2020? and, you know, how has it felt as well? And personally, I got a bit emotional listening to it. Just thinking about recording then and what's happened now.

0:55Oti: Went into some deep dives in this

0:57KT: Feeling Winers.

1:01Oti: you

1:01KT: so much. It can be a jubilant time, but it can also be a difficult time. But we are here with you, friends and lovers. Please enjoy this and also get satiated. Rat it off. Our Christmas special is on the way.

1:14Oti: Mm-hmm.

1:16KT: Ah. Are you ready to see the poll? Yeah. Okay. because this is the end of year, we did open up to Q&A, but we didn't necessarily. Get anything outside of what's in the poll, so that's fine. it's, it's interesting cuz when, when we post something, you know, it's, it's right off the back of watching it and I wa I wonder if, we'll see if I have the same feelings.

1:42KT: I think even you had a couple of conflicted feelings. Shout outs to Rob, for making me realize that he is the same fella from Dune. and I also hit up Ben in the DMs and he was mentioning that he's the same fella that did Arrival. and we are talking about the film. Enemy. and in brackets I wrote Gyllenhaal and spiders. So Ben has a comment. And it, I feel like it's going to frame our discussion, but do you wanna share generally how you felt? And then I can read Ben's comment

2:13Oti: at the most basic level. I think I was frustrated by the end of it, not because it wasn't good. I felt like I was waiting for the other shoe to drop, and then when it did drop, I was bewildered by what was going on. I think part of me just chose to ignore the spiders. Yeah. That I, I just thought he was being quacky. It was trying to be cinema of sorts.

2:36KT: It's like when you are, when you're doing a puzzle and those puzzle pieces are too hard and they don't look like they go to with the puzzle, so you just throw it away. Yeah.

2:43Oti: And then on the opening scene, you know, remember when the lady was like putting the leg on the spider? Uhhuh? Apparently she was supposed to be crushing it. I thought it was more sexual. I thought it. It coming up a leg and doing stuff. I don't know. that's how my mind took me.

2:58KT: We've been watching a lot of anime and friends and lovers.

3:01Oti: So when, when, when I watched reviews of this afterwards because I was. Really confused. It made sense. It made me enjoy the movie a bit more in retrospect, once I started digesting it all. Mm-hmm. and then maybe I want to watch it another time just so that I can appreciate it on a deeper level. But I think, I think it's, it's, it's an alright movie. It's not the best, but it's, it's good. And I think you being spiders makes quite, quite a lot of sense. I see that.

3:31KT: I dunno why you're gesturing and saying you. Because we've made it very clear. I can't gesture and say you people, It's, it's gotta work both ways, mate. Mm. I, I do wanna say something, but it kind of goes to what, um, Ben's comment slash question, so I'm going to leave it there. what I, what I generally feel about the film, but what I will say, Is spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. I know Rob said he's, he wants to be nasty, so he is gonna listen to it even though, he hasn't watched it.

4:03KT: We are gonna spoil it. I don't know if we're gonna hack it apart, spoil it, but we're gonna spoil it because there's no way to talk about this without actually addressing, the themes that we're introduced in this film. But this was literally a very straightforward film about a man stepping out on his pregnant. To go and slip it to his side piece. That's literally what this film was about. So do all your fucking wonky cinematography, but that's literally what it is.

4:31Oti: But it's because the women spiders

4:33KT: mate. Oh,

4:33Oti: good on ya. Yeah. Just saying he was justified.

4:38KT: stay on your incel forums mate. No, but like, my, my point is, uh, a film can definitely be more than what it is simply on paper. However, it, it was unnecessarily wined and quirked for no reason. especially once you get to a point where you understand it. I'm not going to say, about Matrix because we are going to cover Matrix. hopefully we try and fit it in in the January before we start doing, the Reference Degustation.

5:11KT: But, not succinctly about The Matrix, but just generally about film. there absolutely can be more layers that you dissect with, you know, multiple re watches. However, I do believe that there needs to be a base level. Understanding in the first watching of a film. I, I know it's very popular. It's, it's the YouTubes of like, oh, let me explain how this film ended, mate.

5:36KT: We don't know. We don't need to know how Paul Blart: Mall Cop ended. Like, it's pretty like it's got into that point now. It's like you don't need to explain something. Spoon fed to me. I don't necessarily care to watch people explaining endings of stuff, but for this particular one, we did watch like some 20 minute video, but it was, even then, it was kind of like theories, but it was also based on excerpts and interviews, of Denis.

6:03KT: But for me, I don't like that. Like I, I personally don't like that, like to quote Roman from Succession, I'm dumb, but I'm smart. Like, give me a chance to fuck it up, like essentially. So let's get into Ben's comment cuz I'm, I'm literally saying what his question is. So this is his overall comment. You have me at a slight disadvantage because it's been so long since I saw Enemy, but as we discuss, I really rated.

6:30KT: My question to you both is kind of connected thematically to the film. Where do you stand on films, movies, or stories generally that don't spoonfeed the message or the plot ones that lean more into the symbolic than the literal or invite interpretation rather than offering closure. These are the films I tend to appreciate the most, although.

6:54KT: As with all healthy diets, cinema, otherwise a balanced diet is okay. And then in brackets he said, oh yeah, I just remembered you dropped out a Twin Peaks. Well, considering Ben kind of went on his own journey of answering his own question, uh, you can speak generally, you can talk, uh, specifically in regards to Enemy, but thoughts, feeling. I don't, I don't fuck your feelings, It doesn't matter what your feelings are.

7:30Oti: you're an idiot.

7:33KT: But at least it didn't take you two hours and 30 minutes to realize that through spiders,

7:40Oti: Oh, bloody hell. I don't, I, I don't mind. A more symbolic movie. I think when I read the description of, of this movie, before we watched it, I thought it was kind of dry stuff. Mm-hmm. we needed something light for the moment and we just dived in based on the description.

7:56Oti: And what transpired on screen was different in my mind from what I read. Yeah. And I think there was a disconnect where me trying to see, wait, is this trying to mean something more than. Mm-hmm. and then they added the extra layer of spiders in and giant spiders or whatever being bloody her mom or something like, huh.

8:20Oti: I get the symbolism, I appre like after the fact. I understand why you want to be abstract and appreciate that inside the. Do. I think the execution of this was perfect. I do not think it was, I think he got a certain point. You have to be held accountable when the director himself finds it super hard to even try and describe, explain this movie, because the interviews that I saw him trying to talk about it, there wasn't any coherent.

8:52Oti: Yeah. At least for me, I watched interviews of him trying to talk about what this is. Yeah. And he kept on going back to, oh, this is all Jake Gyllenhaal. He was all that. It's all about him. And

9:05KT: I don't know why it doesn't explain the wank if it was just him and it was a straightforward story and he cheated on his wife and he continued to cheat on his wife. It didn't need to be done in this way.

9:15Oti: Exactly. And, and that's why I find a bit of what's, what's the, what's the mileage? The space that you are allowed to wiggle from. Because to me, I, once I read all the, whatever, saw the interviews and whatnot, I started putting two and two together. Then the movie sort of rose a bit.

9:35KT: But, but I don't like that. I don't like that. Like for me, if I, so if I watch a film and I feel away, Okay, well I'll, I'll speak about this. So I feel a way about this. Let's say numerical amount. What would we rate it? What would you rate Enemy? I'd give it a seven. It's a five for me. For me, it's a five. And we talk a lot about having a base rating of six whenever we watch something.

10:01KT: Yeah, it's a five for me because it was unnecessarily. Yeah, it was, I'll wank myself. You don't wank me. I'll wank myself.

10:09Oti: It was probably a five for me as well at the end, but once I understood a bit more more's,

10:13KT: I'm about it. But that's, you see what I'm saying, bro. Yeah, but this is what I'm saying, like, so yeah, in this case I wasn't impressed, but if I were to hear something.

10:23KT: after the film, outside of the film, then yeah, it, it can fill in the gaps. But for me, like I, I guess the, the most basic way to understand it, when, when Oti and I were discussing it after we had watched that stupid video explaining it was, if I order a table, like a flat pack table and a leg is missing, that's not on me.

10:44KT: That's on you. Don't ask me to, don't ask me to conjure a leg out of nowhere. Right. That's what I'm saying. Give me a reason to fuck it up and be dumb and feel dumb. Let me earn my stupidity. Right? Like, but if you are not giving me all the parts that I need to assemble this flat pack table, then I don't necessarily feel like that's good storytelling.

11:06KT: And we've talked, you know, wherever it's, relevant. I don't like splicing back and forth in timelines. Cause for me, if you were to make it a straight. Straightforward timeline and it's not interesting. Well, there's your answer right there. It was never interesting to start off with. It's cause again, I don't like all of the twists and turns it gets in the way of what I like and it's emotional resonance.

11:29KT: so I guess going back to Ben's question also, it's not here, but when. Ben and I were DMing. He was, he was. He was on his, abstract sort of creativity path and he's like, this is why I love poetry. I love poetry too, bro, but like, it's not the same as me.

11:47Oti: The misconception that I had of the lady either squashing or making love to the spider. Mm-hmm. is the complete, it's, it's is the difference, is the fundamental difference on how I view the spiders throughout the movie. Okay. Because I thought there was a loving with the spiders. I thought it coming up a leg and possibly whatever.

12:06KT: Were you the, were you the Jordan Peele meme when. Sweating cuz you thought you accidentally played your web history. Yeah. spiders. Naked woman.

12:19Oti: Well apparently naked woman is one of the top, search keyword in America. That should be a

12:24KT: given though

12:25Oti: naked

12:26KT: woman who searches naked woman. Or maybe it's like censored pubic region. in way of Japanese porn Yeah.

12:33Oti: but I. That's the fundamental difference for me because at the end of it I was like, if there's a loving for the spiders, then it doesn't make sense at all.

12:40KT: It's a very incel, very immature way to view women though. Especially cause he was the fucking problem all along.

12:47Oti: And Exactly though, because I just thought he loved spiders. He had a thing.

12:52KT: No wonder Taylor Swift wrote that song about Jake Gyllenhaal. Gotta trust the Swift mate. Really?

13:02Oti: Oh, you gotta trust Kanye, either one or the other.

13:06KT: I love how like Kanye West, like bought a house opposite Kim. Wow. I saw lots of memes like Lakeview Terrace and they Photoshop, Kanye going back to Enemy. Yeah. I just. Like I, I don't know, throw it out. patrons, if you think there are any abstract films that you think that we might enjoy, to make it very clear, we didn't like Arrival, but we didn't know Denis what are some other ambiguous films that you in particular liked? I can't think of any that I like. Not off the top of my head,

13:32Oti: But I think Arrival. A lot of problems in this environment. You are watching it in.

13:38KT: It's also cuz you're a dickhead and you like the expensive We went to shoutouts to Rob and also Sam t cuz you're in Australia. we were in Vmax, which is essentially standard seating with like a little bit, not really, it's just a way to justify spending a few dollars, but we weren't in like gold class or luxe and I think that really hampered your experience.

13:58Oti: No, the audio experience I think had to play a big part in the movie. And every time it was so shouty sharp. Yeah. It was. I wanted to reduce the volume because that got in the way of me enjoying and immersing myself in the movie. Yeah. And I felt like I couldn't get myself there. And I think that's one of the frustrations that I had with it. Uh, not because it was symbolical time. Was non-linear. Nah, It's because the environ. Didn't cater for maximum immersiveness and enjoyment.

14:31KT: I, I do take, I do take umbrage and I think it's just because like Ben and I have this loving rapport. and I do take umbrage with Ben because I feel like there is a insinuation in his question as if. Your baby viewers if you need to be, you know, given closure.

14:50KT: And I don't necessarily think, like, you don't have to spell out to me how something ends, but you also can't leave something open-ended after never really addressing something. Right. It's kind of like in Shame, this is not spoiling anything, but in Shame, we had siblings that were too comfortable being topless in front of each other and they never really fully.

15:11KT: It, at least from my memory of watching it like years ago, like there are some things that are too fundamental to a film and the understanding of the motivations and, and I guess the backstory of characters to not be addressed. So, I'll meet you in the winking, Ben, because I don't, I don't care for the insinuation.

15:31KT: Like if you, if you need, if you need more. Succinct storytelling, then you don't appreciate poetry or you know, I know we hurt your feelings with Twin Peaks, but Sorry bro. like, I dunno if we'll ever go down it again. including Ben, but there is a lot of people I love and respect, that do like Twin Peaks.

15:52KT: And I guess it's just one of those things where I just like shrug my shoulders and be like, good for you, Like, I'm happy, genuinely I'm happy for you. I just don't see it. Myself, I'm currently in the, in the process of reading Macbeth, which is very interesting to Oti cuz I need to read it out loud to understand it so you're getting some budget.

16:13KT: Denzel KT Washington in the house, but. Even then, even though it's written in, in old English, you may say it is still very straightforward in its story, right? Shakespeare did write in a way that made sense. It was flowery and the words, definitely had its own language. but it was there, like I, I like stories to challenge me, to inspire me, to make me feel things.

16:41KT: But I, I do like to have a succinct storyline and to have a goal of where we are going. Julio has a comment, in regards to Enemy, so I'll read it now. I liked Enemy, but I did not get the spider stuff at all. Thank you, Julio. always meant to re-watch it to see if something would reveal itself then, but never got around to it.

17:02KT: And just a couple of weeks ago, I listened to a podcast that actually gave a pretty good explanation, and now I'm kicking myself for not picking up on it. Julio, you know what? Just do what I do and say it's on them. Shame on them because it's not your fault. It's not. Fault. You didn't pick up on it cuz they didn't even allow you to pick up on it.

17:21Oti: Yeah. Oh. Things like tying the big spider to the mom. I'm like, me, how the fuck? Yeah, But what I like, you have to know knowledge about fucking spiders because that spider apparently is called mother. Whatever. Yeah. I'm like, come on now. That's beyond the scope of the film. Yes. That's actual me actually trying to understand, Hey, I know that scientific name of that spider mother something.

17:50KT: Yeah. Like,

17:52Oti: okay, so that's the mother. Like, come on now.

17:54KT: But I think, but this also comes back to my like, Passion of the Christ, right? Like just because. We, whether believing or not, just because we know about Jesus' life and his perhaps, you know, transcendent sort of form, you still need to do the groundwork in a film.

18:13KT: But then again, Ben doesn't believe you need to do the groundwork to care or love Michael Myers. Right? But I do like, I believe even if it's the seventh fucking sequel, you still need to gimme a reason. Yeah, and that's, I, I guess that's just on that. but it's definitely a very interesting, question and thank you for raising it, Ben. And maybe one day I'll be mature enough to not offer to fight you multiple times. while discussing your question. is there anything else you wanna say about Enemy?

18:45Oti: No, I think we'll, I'd probably rewatch it. I don't like Gyllenhaal. I know. I think that's, do you think that came into the way of you fully immersing yourself in this?

18:54KT: No. but when we were, when we were browsing for films, I saw the poster and if anything, the poster got me more interested than the description. Mm. And we had decided, we had gotten dinner ready and then I realized Jake Gyllenhaal was, To make actor. And I almost was like, I kinda don't wanna watch this now, but we, we went through the film, he's not the one to make or break it.

19:19KT: even though his is acting kind of felt the same to me for both characters. And we always call it the Chiwetel. Ah, why do we never remember the name of this film? It's Chiwetel, Nicole Kidman, behind the

19:30Oti: Eyes A Lie.

19:31KT: The. Something like that. But essentially they had time jumps and to demonstrate it. They had like a little, little white streak of hair for Chiwetel, so we would know whether we're in the future, or the present. But, I don't like Gyllenhaal. He's on the list of actors that I just. I don't care, in case anyone was wondering. I don't like Gyllenhaal. I like Maggie Gyllenhaal. You approve. Ah,

19:55Oti: don't care.

19:59KT: Okay, well let's move on to the next film on our poll, Oculus, in brackets, distortion, horror, how interesting that this film was produced or had some sort of involvement from WWF, WWE.

20:12Oti: I enjoyed it. You know,

20:14KT: I really liked it. I really liked it.

20:16Oti: I think actually when we watched it, I think it, it was, we had a lot of hit misses with movies of late. Yep. And when we watched Oculus, it just brought a feeling of me saying the base level enjoyment. Yes, you could predict a few things, but it did matter. It was just stay with it.

20:33KT: Yeah. Yeah. Be in the sword

20:36Oti: with it and accept. You gotta probably see how this is going to end. Yeah. But in the moment, I enjoyed it. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that.

20:46KT: No. There's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely. Julio's comment, I think I fell asleep while watching Oculus years ago when it first came out. Maybe you'll jog my memory. Okay. Now this is where I offered. Julio many times I went to his Letterboxd and he didn't rate this very high.

21:02KT: I don't remember the number, but he didn't rate this very high. And then I also remembered that Julio didn't rate, uh, Sinister, our Ethan Hawke film very high. Ah, either. So I guess it's, it's providing a mental map. He didn't like Sinister. He didn't like this film. So in this case, Julio, it is on you. No, I really, I really enjoyed it.

21:24KT: you know, what were we watching? Was it Don't Look Up, it was something where you were saying no, it was The Guard. with Don Cheadle and Brendan Gleeson, which I really enjoyed. Mm. And you are making a big fuss about how you've seen it before. Many times. And I made the argument of you can only really see something for the first time only so many times. So like for me, it doesn't matter if I've seen this concept many times. I fucking enjoyed it and I really liked it, and that's how I feel about Oculus.

21:53Oti: Yeah, it made me feel, remember, we watched one VR and we enjoyed it, but. To some level in my head I'd seen it a bit, a few times in a different format. Yeah. And it still didn't take away from my enjoyment. Yeah. I, I, I was rooting for the siblings Uhhuh, even though I could see it was not gonna end well.

22:14KT: Yeah. I don't wanna. I don't wanna spoil it too much just for those that haven't watched it, but essentially you'll find this in the trailer and also in the description. But there are two siblings. the oldest, uh, sister and the younger one is a brother. And somehow, which was very confusing at the start of the film. The youngest sibling, the brother, he ends up in a mental facility, for many years. And I think at that time he was incriminated with the death of his.

22:44KT: Yeah. but essentially you, you see this very interesting dynamic between the younger brother and the older sister and the younger brother by force of law had to go through the journey of healing, right? And to actually be invested in therapy. And then you have the young, uh, the older sister that just held onto that.

23:07KT: She was holding onto that trauma. so they were both, they were both navigating in different, but very believable and very relatable ways. It makes sense that the older sister has held onto this and has driven to the point of paranoia. But we always say in films, being paranoid is very useful. Mm, you're not the one that's going to be in trouble.

23:28KT: but I really liked the way that they navigated the sibling sort of dynamic. you know, there, there, there was definitely some lore, you know, some fantasy, supernatural, sort of elements. Cool. Didn't necessarily bother me or sway me in any way, but I really, I really deposited a lot of, investment in their sibling. You know, sort of interact. Me too. And,

23:50Oti: and she kind of feel sorry for the older sister. Yeah. Just cause she had to be, that she was left behind. Yeah. Yeah. She, she had to believe she had to hold onto that because no other way that she cope with it. She was in this foster system for until she was released.

24:06Oti: Yep. Fucks anyone up and to have all that precedent that happened with the dad and not fully understandable. And I think the back and forth with the, uh, with the brother was quite intriguing and that's what I enjoyed most out of this, their interactions and just how different they were in, you know, seeing how the brother handled his. His, his, his thoughts and his feelings and seeing how that contrasted with the sister. Yeah, I think that's one of the best things about Oculus. It's a lot of fun.

24:35KT: Like, it's a lot of fun. Julio, if you ever watch it again, I would be interested to know. I should probably check the rating to see if we can recommend it as patrons for this show. anyone else? if in future or if you've already watched Oculus, would love to hear, your thoughts on it, but it really is. You know, even what Ben was saying, it's always good to have a balanced diet, you know, cinematically. And sometimes you need something with like a juicy burger, like a, a nice, a nice carbonated drink.

25:06KT: put on the air conditioning or a fan, whatever you can afford. Have a cool climate and just watch this thriller. It's beautiful. It's lovely. Mm-hmm. It's fun. Can we have fun in the 2020s? Is that okay? Hopefully that is, that is very dismal Oti. let's get into the last voted on the poll. And we have the, ooh, I think it's Amazon, or is it Hulu? the series, both seasons. Love Life. HBO Max. Oh, I was, I was wrong on all counts.

25:36Oti: look at me. I enjoy this show, you know? Mm-hmm. the first season we go through Anna Kendrick's, sort of escapades and hard trying to find love and, you know, hard getting in a, getting in her way of finding love.

25:49KT: There you go. Mm-hmm. message.

25:53Oti: And it's, it's, it was intriguing. It was nice, and I think. A bit apprehensive as to what season two would bring. Yeah. when I, I had, uh, the whole season two, I saw that and I can, could be part of it and I was like, ah, how is that gonna work? Yeah. Wasn't he like, did he like end properly the first season anyway? Yeah. But getting to introduce Marcus, I think I like him as an actor. I think,

26:17KT: he, he was also in, a romcom with the lady that was, Boys

26:22Oti: Love Bites, Aya Cash and yeah, We Broke Up. Yeah, so it was, it was very intriguing because locking Marcus and at the start of this, I'm feeling sort of sorry in the first episode, but then everything that transpires afterwards, by the end of it, I'm like, may you don't deserve. Any happiness whatsoever. I was so angry. Yeah. I just wanted everything that could go wrong to go wrong for him. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Just because he's a really bad person,

26:54KT: Yeah, absolutely. Sometimes

26:56Oti: people need to know they're bad people. Yeah. Rather than masquerading themselves out there thinking. Ooh, I'm a proper bloke. Look at me and pip, pip, pip, pip. And not being that.

27:08KT: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I know.

27:10Oti: Because I think if you told him he is a bad person, he would disagree with you a hundred percent. Yeah. No, absolutely not.

27:15KT: Absolutely. But you are

27:17Oti: what you do at the end of the day. Yeah. And he's just crap. Yeah. I struggled. Throughout this season? Well,

27:25KT: I think you, you always have a, a default wanting to root for shitty men, and we've talked about that many times. even though you are a man of quality, I, I do make sure to say that, but I, yeah, I didn't care for Marcus's character. But just generally overall, since I'm assuming a lot of you guys haven't watched it, if you are looking for something fun, to watch and you need a break from all of the auteur, wanky cinema of it all, this is something fun that will just tide you over, you will get more fr.

27:57KT: Season one is, is quite a easy watch. The season two is more frustrating because Marcus is very messy and he decides to be very. See, but shout outs to Arian Moayed because I fucking love him and you know, he's also in a Succession as well. And I tweeted like an appreciation post cuz I want to be told I'm poor for the rest of my life by him in every other TV show and film son, he, he's great and it was fun.

28:26KT: He had, he was like Stewy with feeling. Mm. In Love Life. But I think, yeah, like we don't need to get into storylines or anything, in particular, but it, it was a watch, like it was an enjoyable watch. It was a frustrating watch, because of Marcus's character, but it was definitely enjoyable.

28:42Oti: Yeah. Something that you could definitely have it as your weekly sort of show and just enjoy it like that. Mm-hmm.

28:49KT: Nice. Okay. we have a Q&A for you, Oti. Oh, okay. Okay. So this is from Julio. while we're still in the middle of a covid crisis, we can all probably agree that we're at a different stage. How would you say podcasting in 2021 compared to podcasting in 2020 and even further back to podcasting pre 2020? I

29:14Oti: think when we started it was quite different. We had a lot of energy to burn. 2020 was a spanner definitely, but I think we handled it quite well in managing, uh, work-life balance and all. Mm-hmm. and then 2021 just got completely. at least for me out of hand and re not necessarily drop the ball, it's just that it got harder to sort of juggle everything that's happening with life work and the podcast as well.

29:46Oti: And yeah, trying to get as much content out there that we wanted to have. Mm-hmm. I think that was the biggest for me. I think 2021 definitely we struggled more than we did in 2020, and I think prior to that we were just cruising.

30:02KT: Well, you know, since we're with our patrons and we're a bit more vulnerable than we are on the main podcast, to be fair, it is me pushing a lot. Like sometimes when like life gets too much, I still try and find. To make it work. and sometimes it just doesn't work that way,

30:17Oti: right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, it, it's, it's because it feels up to me. We would probably have just done like two episodes this year. but I'm grateful, you know, KT is here and she's trying to hold down the fort, and it's, it's good to be able. Pushed to, to not, not necessarily pushed, but to give him that nudge, to go out there and record more and try to do a lot of this more. Because at the end of the day, we do enjoy, doing this at the end.

30:52Oti: We always started this podcast being as a way of release because we watched so much stuff and it was like, oh, let's just do it because, you know, we'll, like it's fun. Yeah. Yeah. And I think part of me struggled. that and it being fun and me loving watching movies and TV shows to, oh, I have to do this every week. And I think that's where the calibration sort of, I had to get my head around, especially in 2021 with other shit came into the picture and it just got harder and harder.

31:23KT: Yeah. And I think, you know, even outside, if you can even have an outside of the pandemic, there is that imposter syndrome. And you know, we are navigating very learned circles and we love that a lot of you, uh, are our patrons, but it is fucking intimidating to know that a lot of you guys went to film school and you go to like film festivals and.

31:47KT: Study this shit, right? Like I, I don't know about Oti, but it's really intimidating to me, and I think I've always kind of been from the point of view of I'm never really going to be where you are. Like, even if I work towards it, that's a different thing. But like, so let's just focus on what we love. Let's, let's do what we wanna talk about.

32:07KT: Let's talk about it the way we wanna talk about it. Let's go even deeper than people would probably even imagine. Like we talk about abortion on the podcast, it's where it makes sense. But we talk about abortion, we talk about reproductive rights, we talk about gentrification. We talk about racism, we talk about police brutality, like we talk about a lot of shit.

32:28KT: like real heavy shit in this podcast. And you know, it might not necessarily be everyone's flavor. We also swear a lot on this podcast. I don't know if it's a lot, it's just my fucking. But like we, we are very sexual in nature and, you know, because I handle the social media and stuff, you see, because we're in the indie pod sphere, I see it with true crime a lot.

32:52KT: But just in general, like people can get one star reviews from even people they don't know because they're swearing or because they're too sexual and that sort of thing. And it's kind of, it's wild, but also at the same time, I wouldn't want to change or do a podcast in a way that would appease people because then it wouldn't even be fun for me because it was always fun for me.

33:14KT: And you know, we've made a lot of great friendships, over these almost three years, but I do like you do start to feel the bitterness in other is because they may be doing it longer than us, or they may be doing it at this around the same time as us. But you can tell that their first initial, or maybe maybe initially it wasn't, but currently now they feel like their dues are owed and why aren't they getting Spotify contracts and that sort of thing. explain the chuckle.

33:45Oti: No. Yeah, it's true. But I think at the end of the day, we always came into this knowing that it's just for us. Yeah. To find a way to talk about things that we love, and specifically from our frame of reference. Yeah. Outside of anything learned that might be out there, it's solely coming from what's happened with us, and we try and bring a lot of experiences to.

34:09Oti: Some of the discussions when you talk about movies and TV shows, because that's where we are coming from when we look at, when we watch a movie, especially, I'm really s bloody emotional person and every time I watch something I try to connect with as many things as possible. Yeah. And try tie it. To my life or try and tie it to something that reminds me of, be it Kenya, Africa, whatever experience that I might have.

34:34Oti: Mm-hmm. And it's just one of the ways that I enjoy watching stuff. Yeah. and, and, and that sometimes can get in the way,

34:41KT: but One Night in Miami, that's why it's on Patreon, not on the main feed.

34:45Oti: Exactly. Like QU Miami is one of those things that I just can't bring myself to talk about because of. Angry and how,

34:53KT: uh, no, you can talk about it. You just don't wanna hear anything else.

34:56Oti: Yes, and just, I think we had such contrasting opinions that I just couldn't, I just couldn't understand. Yeah. Or, or put myself in a situation where I would be like, okay, cool. This is something I'm comfortable releasing, because I don't think at the end of the day, it's going to make for a good listening because it'll just be me angry throughout. So

35:17KT: it's just, it's just K T D M X on ma main, is that what we. No, I think I like, but I appreciate, that you mentioned it and I think that's where films no longer stay films. They transcend and they penetrate you in personal ways and I don't think there's anything wrong with that either. Yeah, and

35:36Oti: I think naming the podcast was one of the biggest things for me because I wanted not to sort of make people feel that they're coming. Hear scholars talk about movies. Yeah. No, it's more just two people who love watching stuff and try and make sense of things from their own point of view. Yeah. While referencing a whole lot of shit that either happened to us or other shows or movies that we've watched. Yeah.

36:05KT: No, I, I, I absolutely agree. And like for us it was. It was always an outlet. It was always like a way to process and it was a lot of fun. And, you know, there are some times when we're watching things and you think I'm just in my wild little world until we release an episode. Everyone's like, I agree with KT. And I'm like, see? Thank you Julio. That's a very lovely, question. I guess just to give you guys context, in the first.

36:31KT: Year of podcasting. We took two breaks. last year in 2020 we took one break. and then this year we took three breaks. If you also include the Ref Plus, October. And it, it, it does become, it becomes difficult because when the longer you do a podcast, the, the more it may feel like an obligation and that's the last thing you want it to feel like.

36:54KT: And you know, it's a constant checking in. Myself, check in with Oti. Is the format working? Are we talking about what we want to talk about? I don't know. I don't know if it gets to a point where it gets too deep for us, but we do try and offset it. Like with Repentance, for example, with Forest Whitaker, But yeah, like there, there were films that when we first started out in this podcast, there were films that I was scared to touch.

37:18KT: Like, oh, only really smart, like amazing, wonderful, the best of best of people, you know, cover these films. and I don't know, like, uh, there is a part of me that definitely. Still feels that way. but there is also a, another taking over of, you know what, like there are like a hundred podcasts that have covered this already. If I don't want to cover it, I'm not gonna cover it.

37:43Oti: Yeah. Uh, a hundred percent agreed. And I think at the end of the day, we usually try and cover things that we love. Uh, we try and watch a lot of. Genres and, and, and be it international or within Australia. I think we are getting a bit more stuff from, uh, indigenous.

38:02Oti: I think that's one of the things that I'm enjoying watching is, is trying to get into that space where I knew very little about it. Mm-hmm. and getting to learn through art about the culture and all that is quite exciting for me. And to see that, hey, there's quite different parallels between, you know, how these people were treated and how it all happened in the world, because we were not taught about anything outside of, actually, we were taught about America and Europe, but other than that, nothing else, you know?

38:31Oti: Yeah. And it's, it's good to learn all that, what we enjoying, consuming media.

38:35KT: Yeah. but I really, I really love that question. Thank you, Julio. But to, I guess to answer that question, we released an episode this week and we're hoping to release another one just so when we get to February, we'll get to that milestone.

38:51KT: Cuz we had 50 in the first year, a hundred, in the second year. And we're hoping to get it to 150. We currently have five Quentin Tarantino film scheduled, and if we don't release another episode this week, we'll have to do six. And I don't want to do The Hateful Six. Like that's it. that's a lot of Tarantino toes to have in my mouth.

39:10KT: but I, I really appreciate that and. Hopefully for those of you that podcast, you know, those thoughts. Hopefully they're helpful in some way. I would love to hear about, your thoughts as well, especially because, Julio, they hit their five year mark and I'm losing track of time. I would say last year, but they recently hit their five year mark, so, It's

39:30KT: It's a lot of fun. I think like anything, even if something starts off fun, you, it's a concerted effort to keep it fun, right? Yeah. and Joe Rogan or otherwise is not knocking on your door to give you millions of dollars, but Yes. Who, who, who? That was nice. That was, that was like a, if I were to exercise, that was a nice warm down. Oti, do you have any closing?

39:52Oti: No. Ah. Just and appreciate you people and hopefully you've had a great break if you're getting breaks and, you'll have a happy new year when we get there. Oh,

40:03KT: that's lovely. I'm not gonna add to that. I'm just going to marinate. Thank you guys. We love you so much. look out for the poll for your participation if you would like to participate. have a lovely last couple of days of 2021 and we'll see you in 2022. See ya.

40:20Oti: Hi.