Next Goal Wins, True Detective: Night Country, Ted, Priscilla, Anatomy of a Fall and The Color Purple

Full transcript of Next Goal Wins, True Detective: Night Country, Ted, Priscilla, Anatomy of a Fall and The Color Purple.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and it is another jam packed, delicious Ref Max. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference Podcast. You got your host, KT. And Oti. We have a lot to cover. again, we are very excited. For our upcoming five years of the For Your Reference podcast.

0:26KT: And it is very exciting friends and lovers. and we do have a delectable bag of reviews this week. Some that we might need to address in a full review next year. We're now six year of the podcast anyway. let's get into.

0:55KT: Next Goal Wins. Thank you to the team at Searchlight Pictures slash Disney. I had the opportunity, uh, to be on the red carpet, which was really great.

0:56KT: And the video as well as audio interview is already available on the feed. Friends and lovers, Oti, you've had a chance to watch it now.

1:04Oti: I have. Kick us off. All right. I had it as a heartwarming yet slightly disjointed tale. Strong performances, making it a charming underdog story.

1:20KT: Okay, I think we have the same flavorings.

1:24KT: Mmm. Through the lens presented and intended audience, Next Goal Wins works best on surface. The Māori and Pasifika talent form the foundation of all its warmth. While there was warmth, I was yearning for effervescent heat.

1:43KT: All right, Oti. let's expound a little bit more. Let's, uh, get into the drills and the training of it all, if you will.

1:50Oti: I don't know what I expected. You know, I, when I watched this, I kept on thinking to myself, asking myself why a lot of the time, why was this done in this way? And to me, you could have put anyone in that position as the coach.

2:10Oti: I don't think, it could be Fassbender, it could be bloody Meryl Streep, it doesn't matter.

2:17KT: I see a world where that could have happened,

2:18Oti: yeah. I just feel like the script and the direction of this, held this movie back. There was a lot of, you know, like, I love Taika, but he inserting himself as this caricature in the movie.

2:35KT: You mean the caricature that his wife thinks he is? Ha!

2:39Oti: Inserting himself in this was super distracting. He didn't add any value. It wasn't funny to me. It took me out of the movie and I think even some of the Writing decisions when it comes to different characters, those very little effort being given to adding depth to any of those, like, Oh,

3:00KT: they're all just a clump of the same person.

3:02KT: Yeah.

3:03Oti: Like it just felt like, Oh, we're just going to give you like a very surface level thing, you know, you could. And I think when we were talking about this earlier, you'd compared it to Cool Runnings into some degree, but I remember watching Cool Runnings as a kid and thinking, Oh, there's a story I can cling on to this character development.

3:23Oti: Yeah,

3:23KT: but this is the 2020s and it's less.

3:26Oti: Yes.

3:27KT: Which isn't a knock. I like it.

3:28Oti: Is it? But that's not, that's on the harsh

3:33KT: and that's on business. No. but that's not a knock on Cool Runnings. That's a knock on this film. you know, I will talk about the talent in a moment, but you've mentioned Taika's name and he.

3:46KT: It's interesting, he really was someone that a lot of us, and when I say us, it's a collective us, Māori, Pasifika people, rally behind, people really loved him in like the film, Twitter, Letterboxd sort of spaces, and for various genocidal supporting and others, reasons, he's losing favour with a lot of people, and me in particular, but even then, that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with this, but it has everything to do with The conflict of what you say you are and how you move.

4:21KT: Right. And, you know, cause even having the opportunity to watch it and then coming back to you and then being able to discuss it, I was trying to be, like, I was trying to draw the parallel between. Yes, it's fun. Yes, it's the usual sort of jokes that you would expect from a Taika Waititi film. Why does it sting?

4:46KT: Why does it not have the same wrapped up in love, feel good feeling that you would have in Boy and Hunt for the Wilderpeople? And this is where I pose two questions. in Who was Next Goal Wins for, and where is the lens pointing? And if I were to answer those two questions, I would say this film was not made for Māori and Pasifika people, or people that understand that we are full of richness, people that understand it's a fast to be a PI as a part of the a N H P I, they understand that we have complexity to our whole experience.

5:27KT: And the lens would be. Seeing us as happy, smiling natives. And I don't care for that. I don't see a world where in the 2020s, someone like Taika Waititi, who is arguably is the Māori Pasifika person that has the most influence on a Hollywood stage. To have that executive sort of creative control would create a film that waters down the very experience of who we are.

5:56KT: And even by saying we, I don't fully understand the nuances of being an American Samoan. I grew up with a lot of Samoans that try to have an American accent, but that's very different to American Samoa. But it was done in a way of like, Oh, ha ha. They're so religious, ha ha. And I'm not even, you know, we've mentioned this many times on the podcast.

6:23KT: I'm not a religious person, but I also wouldn't reduce my people to God fearing, smiling, so happy to see the white man, you know, and something that really bothered me in the film is just because you point out someone's white. There was even a motif like alluding to Jesus, which I'm not really going to get into super specific detail.

6:48KT: People were worried about The Book of Clarence, the sacrilegious here, friends and lovers. Wow. Yes. So the ancient texts of our Pasifika people, I just didn't care for it.

6:58Oti: I think, to what we can expect or should expect as a nuanced audience, you know, I expect it slightly more.

7:07KT: And this is where the qualms lie, because Oti is the tax man.

7:11KT: He's got all of the black tax. I don't know if I have brown tax. I don't know if I have Pasifika tax, but what I will say is support and critique are two different things. I wholeheartedly support all of my people, but I think there is room to grow, you know, like any sort of love in a Pasifika family, it's real love and sometimes it's tough love.

7:35KT: and when it hurts, I think it's okay to point that out I just felt like what we are offering to the world, because this was made in a major studio compared to like an independent production or a production that, you know, focuses on Aotearoa or, you know, like Australia, so called Australia sort of sales.

7:56KT: This film has the reach to go globally. And this is the face that we're presenting to the world. This is the voice. Or the lack of voice that we are speaking to in this world.

8:10Oti: I hear you.

8:11KT: Cause it's not necessarily like a white savior sort of thing. I think there was just so much readiness to concede to simplifying and watering down our experiences for a cheap joke.

8:24KT: And I don't think that was fair. It's not fair to the audience as well. but I do want to highlight that, there are a lot of people, there are a lot of legends in our community that are in this film. And I mean it with my whole heart when I say all of the warmth was from the talent. Oscar Kightley, David Fane, legends forever.

8:47KT: not just in Aotearoa, so called Australia screens, but, you know, if you know, you know, all the Pasifika people around the world. Chris Alosio, shout outs to Chris. as well as our brother Uli Latukefu. Like they, they did as much as they could with what they had or what they had seemed to be in control of who created it.

9:09KT: Does that make sense? I just want to love, I want to love freely. I want to experience life in every single dimension, if that's okay.

9:21Oti: And it is okay.

9:23KT: Well, let's move on.

9:31KT: True Detective Night Country. There's only been a couple of episodes that have been released, so obviously we're not going to spoil anything.

9:32KT: and we're not going to speak beyond the two episodes, but Oti, start us off with your quote.

9:39Oti: Stellar casting and gripping storytelling.

9:41Oti: True Detective's latest season is a masterclass in suspense, beautifully integrating mystery with Indigenous stories.

9:50KT: Nice! True Detective remains a benchmark in quality television and Night Country delivers through Jodie Foster as a solid anchor, centering of Indigenous issues, and Kali Reis is a knockout in every sense of the word.

10:06KT: Yo! Click! How hard is it to do Indigenous stories based on what we just recovered?

10:14Oti: Hehehehe. Apparently some people can.

10:18KT: How are you feeling? Cause you know, we've watched the first, was it the first? The first two seasons of True Detective? Mhm. and now we're getting into this one, which a lot of people are saying so far is the best season of True Detective.

10:33KT: Sorry to Mahershala Ali, but we need to get back to his season. what are your general sort of thoughts in regards to the season? First two episodes.

10:41Oti: I am hooked. I feel like there's a lot of, it takes me back to the sort of X-Files days and just a lot of things that I don't understand. And the mystery that I can't even try and tie in.

10:54Oti: Add to that the performances. Oh my word. You know, when you don't realize you've missing someone on screen until they're there, why don't Jodie Foster be, it was amazing. really good.

11:10KT: It's so exciting and it's so much fun. Friends and lovers recover from your hangover.

11:19KT: you know, sit in a chair and come and fight me for Bradley Cooper. You hear nonsense wankery when it comes to acting, it felt so effortless watching Jodie Foster in this.

11:31Oti: Right. And the fact that she plays like this hateable character,

11:35KT: but. Oh, she's fucking frustrating, but

11:39Oti: it doesn't matter. It does not matter at all.

11:42Oti: Amazing.

11:44KT: I love that. It also shout outs to Kali because, they also advocate for the missing and murdered Indigenous, uh, women and girls. And it's so important, especially in regards to her sister, but that's a story for another day. it's so important to have that. There are absolutely moments that I get a bit frustrated.

12:05KT: maybe Jodie Foster's character, or maybe the other white people that are in the community. that I get a bit frustrated at, that I guess would have. a different sort of landing if it was an all native team, however, I am loving where we are going, to have it integrated into a show that is so well renowned that is critically acclaimed, is something that is not lost on me.

12:34KT: Hello, Alaska Daily, are you okay?

12:39KT: But it's done in a way that is compelling, you know, you've got different parts of the conflict of the community, whether it's protesting against the mining, those that work in the mines, scientists and professionals that research that could potentially contribute to the stopping of the mines, you know, it's such a rich, uh, World that we're already presented into.

13:05KT: and I'm so glad that we have the opportunity and thank you to the team at Binge, for the screeners in regards to Night Country. Ooh, all good things happen in the dark, Oti. Yeah.

13:17Oti: and Kali steals the scenes in every moment. They command the presence.

13:20KT: Literally obsessed. Literally obsessed. and it's so interesting seeing both of their characters butt heads.

13:28KT: All right, because they're so, they probably are not on the same passion level, but I guess the want for justice or their approach to, seeking justice is very similar. So it's a spicy muy caliente season that we have ahead of us, friends and lovers, but let's continue.

13:48KT: we have Ted literally couldn't praise it more enough.

13:54KT: I'm just telling you now to five out of five.

13:57Oti: Ted surprises with its humor and perfect casting. A delightful blend of whimsy and friendship, it's a refreshing dose of laughter in a serious, bloody world.

14:08KT: Serious, bloody world? I love that.

14:10Oti: It feels like a palate cleanser. Where we watch a lot of stuff and then comes in Ted. Yeah. And just wipes all that away.

14:20Oti: Makes you feel refreshed. It's so fun. It has some truly laugh out loud moments that you would never expect in such a show.

14:28KT: But it's like banger, banger, banger, banger, banger. Right? Like everything is funny. I,

14:36Oti: one of the surprises of this year so far.

14:40KT: It's understandable to be weary, but the Ted series leverages and exceeds the movies.

14:46KT: Setting a foul mouthed teddy in a coming of age works through humor, satisfying character arcs, and heart. Oh, Oti, it's better than the films. I didn't 100 percent like, was fully in love with the films, like, I liked them, I enjoyed them. But this was so much better. I think cause it really committed to go there.

15:08KT: I'm assuming it's a Peacock show, not an NBC show. because of it's the way that the show is made and it really just allows itself to go there.

15:20Oti: Yeah, it does.

15:22KT: it reminds me of Son of Zorn. Like it's hard to, it's hard to succinctly. explain how and why it works and why other shows that are similar to it don't work, but it really has that sweet spot of really, you know, really heartwarming, satisfying.

15:47KT: Stories, which is really rare to do in the short sort of format TV that it has. It does.

15:53Oti: And the fact that he said, Son of Zorn, which I loved and got cancelled with

15:57KT: Tony, and the extra Tony,

16:01Oti: it's really some gold nuggets in that just priceless. and the fact that it was cancelled just because people don't appreciate bloody good things when they see it or watch Ted, it's amazing.

16:12Oti: Support it, like it, rate it high. You deserve this kind of show. We all do.

16:17KT: It's so interesting. Cause even in the critic circle before it was like releases, like general sort of reactions, I was only saying good things and I'm like, good, because I have time to fight everyone that wants to besmirch my foul mouth, Teddy, Ted.

16:34KT: Okay, well, let's move on.

16:43KT: Uh, this is more mine, but if you have any general sort of comments, you're welcome to share them. this is Priscilla. Coppola delivers a gorgeous offering of two tales that doesn't quite commit to the full truth telling and chooses the lens of, albeit incomplete, love. I knew I would have qualms with the film as soon as the opening credits said that Priscilla was an executive producer for the film.

17:04KT: It was based on a book I believe called Elvis and Me, I would say this film should be called, uh, Priscilla during Elvis, because even though it is more focusing on her, we don't know much about her outside of Elvis. Oh, I do have a lot of notes. I do have a lot of thoughts, unfortunately. we're not able to go into depth because I don't want to spoil anything.

17:32KT: but there was a considerable age gap and it was interesting at how they tiptoed around it in the film because they introduced Priscilla at 13 years old, but they neglected to mention that Elvis was 23 at the time. Oh, neglected, eh? They purposely crafted to not include it in the film. And. You know, maybe I shouldn't mention it, but we also see the random downloads friends and lovers.

18:00KT: We did cover the HBO series Finding Neverland, and it is very early in our podcast journey. But the reason why I mentioned that is because Priscilla was 13 years old at the time. Yeah. Her dad was serving in Germany. so the whole family was there and Priscilla was invited. By a grown man that was friends with Elvis to go to a party with adults.

18:25KT: And you would think, uh, maybe in my experiences, the movie would have stopped there, but no, the parents allowed her to go there. and it was so interesting. Cause I think she got to 15 and the mom was like, Oh, it's, he has to back off. And it's like, bruh. It's too late now! Like, why are you saying? I just, I want a world where young women, young girls, can, be able to experience and, you know, love, celebrities and that sort of thing, but also be fucking protected, because what the fuck?

19:00KT: It's not about Priscilla specifically, because You know, however, she sees her experiences, how she sees her experience, but she wasn't protected. And that was my biggest qualm. And it was so interesting or two, because I'm not going to spoil anything. but there are things about substance abuse. There are things about, you know, grooming, in this film, I was in a media screening.

19:24KT: So you have critics, right? And it's just like, okay, cool. The moment a gun was shown, there was gasping, and I'm like, fuck off. How is that where you draw the line? Because I was uncomfortable the whole time. And you can imagine, if Elvis is a grown man, and she's like a 13, 14, 15 year old girl, him making comments about her appearance, and continually trying to infantilize her, telling her to dress in a way a young girl would dress, and not a grown woman.

19:55KT: Which is something that your parents can say, but not someone grooming you. it was disgusting and I felt uncomfortable. And the thing is, you know, Sofia Coppola, we watch On the Rocks. Yeah. Rashida Jones, Marlon Wayans. and yeah, it is very visual. It is very aesthetic, but I've said it many times. I'm not an aesthetic person.

20:14KT: I still see the fucking grooming throughout all of the layers, and it makes me very uncomfortable. there were so many lines that were in there, and again, it's not to say that she couldn't speak on her own experiences, because there was things that I have never heard about, in regards to her life. But she, or Sofia, or the team, didn't want to demonize Elvis.

20:40KT: Or show him in his true nature that he was behind closed doors, or that, you know, a select few might have seen. So when you have a film that doesn't fully commit to telling, like I said in the quote, that doesn't commit to telling the full truth, what do we as an audience What are we supposed to get out of it?

21:04KT: Right. Which is maybe a gross thing to say, but I also didn't make a movie about it.

21:10KT: I just wish I just wish I wish the world for young women, especially young girls of the world to be able to experience joy and have fun, and also be protected. From predators and protected by those that love you. you can say it was a different time, but bruh, the next two, we are planning on doing a full review on, we've got a couple of more things before we get to our Martin Scorsese before we get to our Splooshies Awards.

21:45KT: So we'll probably won't be able to cover it until like March or April, but we will keep it, In the banks. Also while we're here, I only just found out the other day that Willem Dafoe is Jesus, but that's also Martin Scorsese. So I guess we're adding it to our Reference Degustation, right? It can't just be Mel Gibson in our canon.

22:06KT: Let's talk about a film that really took you. all the way, Oti, shout outs to Nixco. This is Anatomy of a Fall.

22:14Oti: Anatomy of a Fall's compelling dialogue and storytelling captivate. It challenges courtroom norms, weaving a complex and emotionally gripping tale.

22:25KT: I see that. I don't feel it as strongly, but I see that.

22:30KT: Anatomy of a Fall hits the ground running when it deviates from whodunit to examining the fractures before the fall.

22:40Oti: I had a whodunit in my initial review because it's not a whodunit. And my, I was going to succinctly say how it wasn't a whodunit because we don't really care.

22:50KT: It doesn't, like who cares?

22:51KT: It doesn't matter whether the proverbial whodunit, it doesn't matter. Because that's not the interesting part of the film. it's so hard to talk about this film without spoiling it though. but I would say it was interesting at how stereotypical, like how stereotypically European the characters was like, Ooh, I'm French.

23:15KT: I am a lawyer and I'm French and we're laughing. We're French. And then it's like, Oh, I'm a German bitch lady.

23:24Oti: Lean in. Oh,

23:26KT: I don't smile. Go get those fucking people that smile. And it's like, even I know they have complexity, but in this film, I just thought that was a very interesting, or you didn't take it that way.

23:39Oti: I did not even take it that way. I think I, and this is where we come to complex characters. Because there was layers on layers that we could, we even argued about while watching the movie.

23:51KT: Yeah, we do. It's a delicious task for friends and lovers.

23:54Oti: the aspects in this film that I felt were just done brilliantly and I could not wait, I cannot wait to do a full review of this with spoilers because it deserves that much and the fact that I even told you this has to be a full review

24:11KT: yeah, I get what you're saying. I would say that watching it the second time round, I definitely warmed to it a bit more, still had the usual frustrations, but, it was interesting. And I think it was around the time that we also watched was the C no evil.

24:28KT: That's an interesting film as well. It is. we watch films outside of things we cover on the podcast, would you believe friends and lovers? but yeah, there's not really much we can talk about without spoiling it. and, but I would say that the song that gets used throughout the film, I clocked it. I had it written down in my post it note while I was at the press screening.

24:50KT: And I also thought the director was thanking Snoop Dogg, but she said it in a very French way when she said, Thanks, Snoop the Dogg. And I thought, I thought she was thanking Snoop Dogg, but that's just me. again, friends and lovers, we can't go into a lot of detail. We are planning on doing a full review.

25:09KT: So this is just a little bookmark for now.

25:17KT: Let's finish off again. We are planning on doing a full review episode on this as well. thank you to Universal Pictures as well as Warner Brothers. We are talking about The Color Purple and again, look out for our full review, which will have the Spielberg version as well as this new one.

25:31Oti: I don't know if I have to read this, but this is, I'll just go.

25:36Oti: While impeccably cast and sung, The Color Purple misses the emotional depths of its predecessor, leaving a gap filled only by nostalgia. And then The argument would be, but it's based on a play based on a book and I will be like, I have only watched the movie and that's all I can go for.

26:00KT: And then I would beat you like this.

26:04Oti: Yeah, I would as well, and all that.

26:05KT: Can I be very clear? You were very dramatic. You took a pause and you sighed into the mic

26:12Oti: because of how much I love this movie.

26:16KT: Is this your Next Goal Wins?

26:18Oti: Maybe it is. And this is why I couldn't get out of myself. We watched the movie before going to watch this musical play, whatever, and Everything that I loved with original movie from Whoopi's depiction of Celie is God tier.

26:37Oti: Yeah. When we come to this. Whoopi tier.

26:40KT: Whoopi E got God tier.

26:42Oti: When we come to this, I don't even think there's anything, Fantasia could do to elevate Celie in any way because every moment, and this is where narration I think played such a big part in the original, where the emotions that we got to feel for Celie throughout all those moments.

27:02Oti: Horrific moments were not carried through when they broke into song or whatever. Yet the songs and everything else was stellar and perfect, but it still didn't feel as the gravitas wasn't there. And then you flip into the thing of Mr. being depicted as Mr. In the original version.

27:23KT: I think you're getting into spoiler territory.

27:25Oti: Okay, I think I'm getting into spoiler territory. I'm just gonna say.

27:28KT: Just sigh into the mic again. Okay, but it wasn't a terrible film, yeah? It wasn't a terrible film. I just, I didn't have the feels. Okay, well can I get into my quote if that's okay? Go for yours. The Color Purple embodies the richness in cinema, highlighting Black stories, talent, and joy.

27:47KT: Creative choices delivered beautiful scenes and performances from the top tier ensemble. However, lingering in moments would have deepened emotion. Yeah, I Have you calmed down now?

27:59Oti: I've calmed down a bit. And, like, Danielle Brooks, oh my god. Yeah, I know. She's talented by going into this. I think that level just rose in my eyes because I didn't know what I didn't know.

28:17Oti: Yeah. She performed the hell out of this every scene. She was in every song. She's sound. You could feel the emotions. I think that's where I would even argue it exceeds the original, Oh my God. She delivered in every aspect of that movie. She captured the character in such a way. oh my.

28:40KT: She was so great.

28:41KT: I think I would, I just want to say that the format of musicals. Or this one in particular, the scenes were shorter because the exposition happened through the songs. So where you would have a usual sort of narrative film where you can elongate and simmer and, you know, live through the uncomfortable lingering in moments.

29:10KT: You don't get that in musicals. Right. So I would say that perhaps is why the emotional resonance didn't necessarily work for us. There's so much we can talk about, but obviously, we don't want to spoil it, but I do want to finish, with, and it is about The Color Purple and it's, uh, it's about a lot of other things as well.

29:31KT: You know, I talked earlier about supporting a film or supporting films that are important in the industry is different from critiquing. So I guess right off the bat, would you support that people should go and watch The Color Purple.

29:46Oti: Go watch it with your family. Um, the performances are so good. You love it.

29:51Oti: You'd love it.

29:52KT: Okay. So that's the main thing. Go and watch The Color Purple. Let's have a delicious conversation about it. we don't have the time to talk about it. But you know, it was mentioned through the strikes, it was mentioned, you know, we say it throughout our podcasts as well. We're starting to see the effects of the strikes and the continued effects of the strikes and Black, Brown, Indigenous shows are being cancelled left, right and centre.

30:18KT: We're talking about Rap Sh!t. We're looking at box office sales. The Book of Clarence is very interesting because, you know, anything to do with Jesus, Christians are very scared off. but even then looking at the box office for that particular week and The Color Purple had, a similar sort of performance as well.

30:34KT: So, it's important to support the arts. It's important to support black cinema. It's important to support. Brown cinema, which is why we covered Next Goal Wins. but it's always, it's also important to, support Indigenous cinema and. Our podcast is a way to dissect and to analyze, but I don't necessarily get off on telling people to watch something or don't watch something.

31:00KT: but if it is to support, then yes, you should go and watch it.

31:04Oti: Oh, definitely go support this movie. Danielle Brooks, Taraji, Fantasia all do amazing job in this. Yeah, all stellar performers. Colman Domingo. Domings.

31:16KT: Yeah. but thank you so much, friends and lovers.

31:19KT: We love you. Like we love you.

31:20KT: I wish blue shell forever, forever, forever. we have a really great interview. The longest. interview that we've ever done. Friends and lovers coming out right after this episode tomorrow. we have our January 26th invasion day episode coming up and we've also got another interview. We've got a lot coming before we start celebrating our fifth year of the podcast.

31:39KT: Thank you so much. If you want to love and splooshy all over us. on Twitter, Instagram, Spill, Bluesky and TikTok. We're @ForYourRefPod.

31:48Oti: Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

31:49KT: We're also on fuck your aesthetics. I don't care. Podcast. If you like to leave rating or review, we'll see you guys very soon.

31:58KT: See you. Bye.