Monkey Man – Tuk-yo Drift

Full transcript of Monkey Man – Tuk-yo Drift.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and it is another full review. Before we get started, friends and lovers, uh, first off, we have an interview with Dev Patel, and also a trigger warning. Monkey Man addresses sexual assault, violence of women, and this review will be mentioning the Nirbhaya case, domestic violence, including the practice known as bride burning.

0:24KT: We'll also put resources in the show notes. Let's get on with the show.

0:32KT: Namaste, friends and lovers. Welcome to the For Your Reference Podcast. You got your host, KT

0:38Oti: and Oti.

0:40KT: Grapple the juicy mangoes of community while we deliver a one two punch of love and justice. Enter the ring with Dev Patel's feature directorial debut, Monkey Man, this week.

0:56KT: Ooh, how are you feeling Oti?

1:03Oti: Oh, great.

1:04KT: Oh, it's an exciting time.

1:09KT: We have general stats and information that we're going to get to. the box office is, I think maybe a week old from when I first recorded it, but let's get into it. Actor, writer, producer, director, Dev Patel, executive producer, Jordan Peele from Monkeypaw Productions.

1:27KT: The budget was estimated to be 10 million and as of a week ago to whatever the non linear timeline is for you, friends and lovers, a worldwide gross of 12.7 million.

1:41KT: I want to read the beautiful cast before we get into our first impressions. There are a lot of themes that I want to get to today. I guess we'll say who is the action boys and girls around the town.

1:55KT: Dev Patel, Sharlto Copley, Pitobash, Vipin Sharma, Sikandar Kher, Adithi Kalkunte, Sobhita Dhulipala, Ashwini Kalsekar, Makrand Deshpande, Jatin Malik, as well as Zakir Hussain. Ooh. Uh, well, let's get into our general first impressions, I guess, while we're here. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. Ouchie, ouchie, ouchie, here you go Oti.

2:28Oti: Dev Patel's feature directorial debut, Monkey Man, captivates with its rich cultural backdrop, the action scenes dazzle, and the narrative pace is flawlessly maintained. Echoes of John Wick, yet stands distinct with its own motives.

2:45KT: Ooh la la, I'm excited, I'm very excited. Dev Patel breathes life into the ancient legend of Hanuman and ignites the collective rage in an increasingly and deliberately silent world.

2:59KT: While the violence hits hard, it will be the scars of systemic struggle that is the lasting pain.

3:05Oti: Ooh, lasting pain, eh?

3:08KT: I think we watched two different films, Oti.

3:11Oti: Ha ha ha, seems like it.

3:16KT: Ooh, okay, well, do you have any other first impressions? I've obviously got a lot of themes I want to get to today.

3:23Oti: No, it was really good. Just seeing, Dev Patel in his element, it felt fresh. It felt new.

3:28Oti: I enjoyed it.

3:30KT: Thank you to Louisa and the team at Universal. We were invited to a media screening that we were very excited.

3:38KT: You know, it's one of those big titles we've been looking out for. but we didn't realize how special the screening was until I was literally reading tweets. From South by Southwest screenings, like hot off the global premiere. And then the film was intro to say, actually, we had to get special permission for this, this wasn't the usual media screening.

4:04KT: What do you mean you were there?

4:05Oti: I know, but I'm responding to the audience. Yes.

4:10KT: yeah, so like it was really cool. We have had the opportunity to watch this film twice and there is so much, Oti, that I want to talk about. There is so much I want to love on. but I'm also feeling a little bit sad if I can be honest with you.

4:26Oti: Sad.

4:28KT: Yeah, I guess we can get to it because the nature of our themes are ever so layered and delicious, so it would be relevant in the themes that we talk about, but I do want to just point out, that it was revealed to me through Indian film critics, one of them named Siddhant that the second release of the trailer after it premiered at, South by Southwest and not many other screenings, they actually changed the coloring, in the trailer.

5:02KT: And by coloring, I mean, friends and lovers, we have not watched RRR. I'm sure maybe Oti will, maybe I will as well. but, You know, politically around the world, there are a lot of tensions that are going around and in regards to the use of coloring in Monkey Man, the saffron was used for the main conservative, like the Hindu nationalist party,

5:27Oti: right?

5:28KT: And in this through Siddhant, as well as a couple of other Indian film critics, they did point out that the coloring change from saffron to red, which is more closely associated to the communist party.

5:40Oti: Um,

5:43KT: you know, friends and lovers feel free to do your research, but, you know, even in our household, in our general sort of learning of world events, we are aware of, you know, the violence that is going on in India, especially in regards to Muslims.

6:01KT: So, you know, the messaging changed for me.

6:08Oti: A dead? How so?

6:12KT: Well, I guess what I will say, because we will go into themes, and I did put a trigger warning right at the start, because as much as I talk about race, as much as I talk about being brown, I'm also a woman, and that is also the lens in which I watch film.

6:31KT: And I was very emotional watching the film both times. And to know that potentially, allegedly the speculation was that Netflix dropped this film because it was scared that it would ruffle feathers within the more conservative sort of India market to only do that once it got to Universal with Monkeypaw as well.

6:57KT: So there's things to be said, but also there's things to be felt because if the messaging. If that is the core messaging of the film, and don't worry Oti, I do have a theme called Did You Bring Your Whole Pussy? Well, we're going to get there. but if that's the theme of the film and it diluted itself, it does make me sad.

7:19KT: I'm pretty sure you'll tell me something about that's the way that the art can be given. But I would say, show me your whole clip. That's what I would say.

7:30Oti: Wow.

7:30KT: And we're also going to come to themes about violence, especially violence against women. This film was so brutal and it stayed brutal, but it changed the conservative messaging.

7:43KT: You see what I'm saying?

7:45Oti: I hear what you're saying.

7:47KT: Are you picking it up? You putting it down? Are you rolling all around?

7:52Oti: I hear you. I hear you. Um, which is weird because when you told me about this, we'd already watched,

8:00KT: We watched it already.

8:02Oti: Yeah. Yeah. So we were going to watch it the second time and I hadn't noticed it in the first movie.

8:08Oti: I didn't even notice in this, in the second rewatch.

8:12KT: No, you wouldn't have noticed there was so much red.

8:14Oti: I didn't even pick it up because to me I was focusing on everything else. And my lens wasn't geared towards watching this movie from a political lens in that degree. Oh, come on. No, I get the nuance. I get the messaging that was trying to be passed.

8:32KT: How do you feel knowing, and I don't even think the word Muslim was used in this film, by the way, because we had just, we just recently rewatched The White Tiger. Right. I don't think the word Muslim was even used, but the footage that they used that was protesting against the violence against Muslims, that was actually protests in regards to the current government.

8:54KT: So how does that make you feel knowing that they, they changed the coloring, but they're using real world footage. Do you see what I'm saying?

9:02Oti: I see what you're saying. And. That if isn't it, I get it. I get for them to get this movie out. They had to bend to some degree to me. I can accept that, that there might be sacrifices for this movie to be released on mass market, whether or not how that makes people feel.

9:28Oti: Indian people feel, I don't know how, you know, maybe they, they might have wanted them to go balls to the wall and show, you know, stand by the, you know, but the emotion of, Oh, this is the colors I'm going to use, tough. I get it, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend as if it affected my watching of the movie or anything that I took away from the film.

9:53KT: Cause I told you, after we watched it the first time, I was like, They filmed in India, we'll later find out, or if you've watched interviews, you'll find out that because of COVID they had to film in Indonesia, but I even said to you, how did the, how did he make this? Because the commentary was so razor's edge.

10:14KT: In regards to the current events in India, I was like, how did he make this film? How was he able to make this film? And as far as I understand, it's still being delayed. So it's not as if they're not showing it yet in India. but it does have a delayed. Date. We also got quoted Times of India as well. but yeah, that's the first theme that I wanted to touch on and we kind of went straight into it before I could introduce it.

10:40KT: But the theme is, did you bring your whole pussy or is that at home or is it in your handbag? I'd say both. How many pussies do you have? Hydra? Multiple.

10:56Oti: It's. Yeah. Like I can, I can understand the angst and the frustration of them barking to the parties and whatnot, but fundamentally as a message does whatever the color signifies, you know what it was there. The story would, the con, the controversy online will tell you what was there. Isn't that not then enough?

11:22Oti: For you are watching the movie to take it in that regard as well.

11:25KT: I'm just telling you that I feel sad.

11:28Oti: Fair.

11:30KT: In a, in a world that continues to be silent at the injustices of those that are being oppressed. Of those that are being othered. I felt like Monkey Man was really here to say something. And as someone that understands the rage of seeing what's going on around the world and needing a way to channel it.

11:57KT: I felt that there's, there's, there's, there's not many films that I can watch and be like, I absolutely understand, but I fucking got it. The, the simmering outbursts of rage that were in Monkey Man, I feel on the daily. And that was a way that I connected with Dev Patel's film as well as in the interview, because while we will speak to whether it was executed successfully or not, that emotion got to me and I absolutely felt it where I needed to feel it.

12:33KT: And, you know, that's just my personal journey and hopefully that makes sense why I'm a bit sad. At the outcome of that. And I just want to clarify the reason why I say, did you bring your whole pussy? Is it at home? As in, you didn't intend to stand on business or is it in your handbag? Like you're going to stand on a couple of toes.

12:55KT: You know what I'm saying?

12:57Oti: I heard you and understood that. But to me, it was, I'll stand on business and I'll stand on my own toes. Both.

13:06KT: I just wish they didn't withhold the story and we'll come to storytelling. Yeah. In a second. but that, that feeling of collective rage and the need to channel that into your art, I do that on this podcast, you know, I might be, I might be yelling, but I would hope it's, you know, related to whatever we're talking about.

13:26KT: The next thing that I wanted to come to, which was also one of the things that I told you after we watched Monkey Man for the first time was you can tell that Dev Patel. Is Western. So he wasn't born and raised in India by the way that he portrayed the disparities and the highs and lows of India. Does that make sense?

13:51KT: and I want to kind of get your thoughts on that. I guess just to, just to tease out a little bit of a dialogue, the divide and disparity compared to the Western diaspora people versus the people that are living there. Did you see it when you're in it? Does that make sense? Like you being born and raised in Kenya.

14:13KT: Oh, Dev's also your Kenyan brother as well. We've come to find, but you being born and raised in Kenya and living in your country compared to someone that was born and raised in a Western country, then coming to Kenya and seeing the problems and seeing the political tension, do you feel like there was a difference?

14:31KT: And do you see how that was channeled into Monkey Man?

14:37Oti: I can see those are different. I can tell there's a difference in perspectives because I, born and raised in Kenya, will have my view fully consolidated within the environs, compared to someone who's somewhere else and then comes in, they'll have completely different experiences in Kenya and completely different trail of thoughts on what's happening and cause and effects.

15:02Oti: Me watching this movie and looking at Dev trying to tackle a lot of the things in a so called, I went in thinking it's going to be John Wick.

15:13KT: I think a lot of people did.

15:14Oti: I got something completely different. I was like, Oh, this is interesting. I didn't really expect this from it. You know, it's not something that I would.

15:23Oti: Anticipated. Not even, I'm not necessarily sure it was something that I felt like I needed to watch until I saw it and I was like, okay, he's speaking truth to power to some extent and I'm here for it. So is it because he grew up somewhere else and was able to do this? I'm not sure, but I still appreciated it from that angle.

15:46Oti: And I think what, especially after the first watch, and I'm sure we'll get into the re watchability later, especially after the first watch. Mm-hmm. Coming out of the movie and, and that was the quote I wrote immediately after where it had the semblance of John Wick. And I think that's what I went in clinging onto.

16:07KT: Yeah.

16:08Oti: If I had to rewrite that all over again, I don't think I would include it there at all because they're completely different entities

16:17Oti: and even the comparisons be it John and Dev Patel being completely different, you know, action scenes, whatever, it's still way different. And that's how I got like the rewatchability aspect of it, just to touch it on a few.

16:36Oti: I didn't add too much those scenes that I appreciated more, but from a storytelling perspective, anything that I got from the first watch is exactly what I got from the second. I didn't feel like I picked up any Easter eggs or even the colors. It just didn't really resonate that much with me. And yeah,

16:54KT: you know, we don't have to constantly compare The White Tiger, but it does touch on the same themes.

17:01KT: Right. Um, and I felt like living in Balram's world was done, you know, because it's also an American author. So he's also wasn't born and raised in India either, but the way that The White Tiger introduced us to these themes felt a bit more natural as opposed to just spotlighting particular topics and issues in Monkey Man.

17:26KT: Does that make sense?

17:27Oti: It does, but they're completely different genres where White Tiger, he has the vehicle to go fully deeply,

17:34KT: but the themes were the same political tensions, discriminations against Muslims. Like it was the same themes. I'm saying the way it was executed, it felt more. Scrolling on your timeline and seeing terrible, terrible things that gets you that initial shock and emotion, which is what I connected with, but from a storytelling point of view, it didn't do the work that it needed to do.

17:58KT: Does that make sense?

18:00Oti: It does, but I wouldn't even bother comparing the two to me. It was more the gaps in what I felt. That wasn't made this that made this movie not be as effective in storytelling is, is we didn't really get to care for devs character.

18:22KT: Yeah.

18:22Oti: And that's down to writing and that's down to how they laid it out completely.

18:28Oti: And it's not just something like, Ooh, let's learn everything about Balram and The White Tiger, because those are completely different aspects of the movie.

18:36KT: But I'm not even talking about that anymore. When I talk about the themes, I'm correlating them, but I'm not just saying these are young boys in India.

18:43KT: Like I'm not. It's not, it's not to that zoom out level, but it's the fact that they're addressing the same sort of themes and the way that you would get treated in caste systems thematically. Right.

19:10KT: Because I would argue that Monkey Man is more symbols than character work. And we can get to that in a second, but I just want to touch on what you're saying in regards to Dev as the writer and Dev as the director, focusing on the storytelling, I completely agree with you.

19:14KT: I think it falls trapped to a lot of superhero origin stories where they're all orphans like Goku, Superman. I don't really know what Captain America is doing. but shout outs to our Anthony Mackie. No.

19:34KT: I think it's easier to shortcut to cut off a family tree and just say, you're starting off as an orphan. and this is going to be where you were going. but it kind of stilts our emotion building for. Dev's character. And also I love this film with all of my heart and the rating and the pull quote reflect that, but I also don't care for films that don't even care to name their characters.

20:02KT: I'm serious. There's an alpha, there's a kid. I think our Sharlto Copley is called Tiger. Like, let's just, let's just give characters names. Let's give them backstories and let's give us something to hold on to.

20:16Oti: You know, I'm going to say the hottest of takes.

20:20KT: You're the hoest of takes. So go on.

20:23Oti: There's nothing wrong with the linear storyline.

20:27KT: That's not a hot take. Exactly.

20:30Oti: Because fucking people avoid it as if it's a bloody plague. But that's correct. Just go with the bloodiest linear storyline. Let's resonate. Start body finish. Let's go. Let's just do it.

20:41KT: Cause yeah, just let it stand as it is. Absolutely. That wasn't even a hot take brother.

20:47KT: Unless it was meant to be sarcastic cuz.

20:50Oti: Oh, come on now.

20:51KT: I thought we're just the hottest around. I thought that's why. I, and what I said earlier about, I wish they didn't withhold the story is exactly what you're saying. Because we've watched it twice. We said spoilers. They kept flashing back. They kept flashing back because even at that point, we didn't even know the mom died or she was murdered.

21:12KT: Right. But they just kept flashing back to a bloody scene. They just kept flashing back.

21:17KT: And it wasn't until an hour in that we realized the police officer was the one that we were gunning for the whole time, because in his head, he knew. Right? Films, friends, and lovers are like relationships. You might not want to share everything from jump.

21:36KT: But you need to give us something to hold on to. You need to give us something to, to pull to your bosom because he knew kid Dev's character knew where he was going, but we didn't.

21:52Oti: Yeah.

21:53KT: And then he's not even the biggest bad Shakti is. So it's like from a story point of view, it just, it was a bit frustrating if I'm, if I'm being honest.

22:07Oti: Yeah.

22:08Oti: Well, it's, it's, it's multifaceted, right? There's the biggest baddie in his life and the biggest bad for his country.

22:18KT: Oh, go away. How are you going to find the biggest bad if they keep changing the color ideologies?

22:30Oti: Oh, it's the duality of badness, darling.

22:34KT: Is it, is that what it was?

22:42KT: Again, there was a shorthand and the shorthand was rage, and I absolutely understood it, but the writing could have been a bit workshopped.

22:56KT: How do you feel as Dev as a director?

22:59Oti: Oh, I think he excelled as a director.

23:02KT: Yeah?

23:03Oti: I loved everything technical he did with this movie.

23:06KT: Uh huh.

23:07Oti: scenes that I didn't appreciate in the first watch, I did appreciate in the second, and I think that's down near to me focusing more on those aspects of the movie, rather than just the storytelling aspects of it.

23:23Oti: Um, for his first film, I think, Very ambitious and he succeeded and I'm happy with it as, as, as a piece of entertainment, not only there to also talk as a piece of history and tapestry and history rather to showcase what's happening and to highlight the efforts and the pleas of people. I'm there for it.

23:51KT: He's a bit of a horny director boy, isn't he? It was giving Brandon Cronenberg. It was giving Infinity Pool level of horny.

24:03Oti: Yeah,

24:04KT: I was waiting for me to show up.

24:06KT: Maybe perhaps we're working on the sequel. Apparently, I guess I just want to keep it. I just want to keep it immortalized on our podcast.

24:21KT: Friends and lovers, my very non serious, serious. Take seeing the reviews, especially when a lot of people didn't have the chance to see Monkey Man yet is they kept referring to Dev Patel as daddy. And I think it's quite clear when you watch Monkey Man, that he is a cut cutie.

24:40Oti: Oh,

24:40KT: wow. Oti is evidence that you can be both the duality of horny man.

24:48KT: but I don't think Dev Patel is there yet. That's all because a lot of sexy things were happening, but nothing was happening to him.

24:55Oti: He was dealing with the badness around him. He didn't need a baddie.

25:03Oti: I'm dropping gems in this episode. That is

25:07KT: just. No, no.

25:12KT: Ah, I didn't think we were going to get violence against women that way.

25:18Oti: Mm.

25:20KT: before we get into the more sort of heavier themes, Oti

25:23Oti: Oh, we, we were not covering heavy stuff.

25:26KT: No. Oh, alright. Because this is a light pack.

25:32Oti: Oh wow.

25:34KT: Don't make you un, I'm gonna ungroup you from my Prince

25:40KT: Don't be a meanie man.

25:46KT: A prince to a king is his son. We're just gonna keep dropping hip hop gems. Uh, friends and lovers. Actually!

25:53KT: Before we even get into what we were going to get into, I want to talk about the soundtrack because I feel like we could have heard more South Asian, Indian artists.

26:06Oti: Ooh. Yeah. Thinking of it, thinking back on it, I don't think anything particularly stood out.

26:14KT: There were some cool ones. And even hearing interviews, Dev was talking about There were rappers in the slum and they made a song that made it to the soundtrack, but it didn't feel like enough. It kind of reminded me of the latest seasons of La Casa de Papel. Well, they just get randomly putting English songs in really Roxanne.

26:35Oti: I just can't remember.

26:37KT: Yeah, exactly.

26:38Oti: Which is, which is wild because we're watching Fallout and every fucking scene. It's. It's just littered with awfuls cause, and I'm just had it up to here.

26:53KT: Oti, you have a word document to put those feelings in, not in this review.

27:01KT: Um, before we get into the more serious themes, friends and lovers, I want to talk about the question that Dev Patel gets asked a lot, obviously I've got a lot of thoughts on it, but I want to hear your Like, I want to hear your take about Dev Patel being the next James Bond and him constantly being asked that on his own film that he wrote, produced, directed and acted in.

27:31Oti: Oh, a Kenyan British James Bond, I'd take it.

27:35KT: They

27:42Oti: can all coexist.

27:45KT: Okay. If you're done joking, I'm actually talking about the fact that he made it very clear, no, none of those roles were being available to him. So he created this by, by hell or high water. He made this film by himself and he's constantly getting asked to re assimilate back into major IP.

28:04KT: Okay. That's rude.

28:08Oti: Oh, it's a sign of tapping into the main vein.

28:12KT: Grow up.

28:14Oti: That's how the world works, darling. You do something, you struggle to do something, once you do it and people see your success, they'll be like, Eww! Now come join us!

28:25KT: Now we just wait and see. I thought we're going to have a proper discussion about that, but there you go.

28:35KT: I want to talk about the action slash violence in this film.

28:39Oti: It was brutal. I had like, it even felt more so personal than it did in John Wick. Those scenes where I don't get squammy. I didn't really look away, but even watching it the second time, it still shocked me.

28:59KT: Okay.

28:59Oti: Uh, I think. We don't get a lot of gory stuff as well.

29:08Oti: Like it's, it's not just done for it to, for any shock value, anything. It's just, uh, you know, transposing the brutality of it all. And maybe his emotions and feelings and trying to take down the baddies. So it's in as much as parts of it. I couldn't handle especially, I think the mom scene was the most shocking to me, just because from an emotional perspective.

29:37Oti: Uh, because I'm used to the, all the knife fights and all that, that wasn't particularly anything new or shocking. It's the emotional pull that they try and pull you down with when it comes especially to the violence and the emotional connection that comes in. that's what I found, a bit, or took me aback a bit.

29:57KT: I felt like it was a lot. I felt like whatever I think the violence is going to be, it kept going past that because people keep talking about that knife scene in the elevator and I'm like. Disgusting. I was like, that's gross. Yuck.

30:15Oti: But we've seen like that in John three. I like it's.

30:20KT: I guess, you know, you know what I will also say, and maybe this comes back to storytelling.

30:26KT: Dev Patel's character, and I keep saying that because you just called him kid, but kid, he didn't even want to fight himself. His way of gaining money is to let himself get beat up, and I'm like, From a story point of view, if you want to get beat up, what am I supposed to do in that instance? You know what I mean?

30:46KT: Like if, if, if you don't feel like you're deserving of love and to not be beaten to a pulp and the way Sharlto Copley said monkey, friends and lovers. I'm watching how a lot of non black, non brown people are using monkey. So it just felt like we were continually. Being beaten down, you know, do you think there was not enough action because you even said yourself, you didn't know what you were in for.

31:21KT: I don't think a lot of people knew what they were coming in for. I wasn't expecting the social commentary either. You didn't know what you were getting in for. And at some point you needed to make a decision or whether it happened subconsciously to tap in and be like, okay, this is what the film is. So from someone that actually enjoys action, did you feel like there was enough or it didn't matter once you were connected to it?

31:45Oti: I thought it was enough. I didn't, what I expected was more the storytelling more than anything. Not, Ooh, it didn't have enough action. It had sufficient action. I'd say just as much as John Wick one did because half the time they were just looking at John cry over the dog.

32:07KT: So that's my favorite John Wick.

32:11Oti: So it definitely had enough action, especially for it being the first movie. I'm assuming there'll be sequels and all that. So, yeah.

32:22KT: Okay.

32:23KT: Um, I want to talk about women. I, I definitely wrote it down in my notes. I might've whispered it to you, or I might've said it to you after we watched it the first time that I feel like somewhere in the near future, Dev Patel is going to direct a documentary.

32:41KT: About women, the violence of women in India. Because you can tell that he understands and you can tell that it was made with a lot of love and care.

32:49Oti: Yeah, he's covered a lot, even in the interview he talked about what inspired him to do this movie. It's something that you can see he holds dear. And he wants to inform and to change the sort of violence and the tendency for it.

33:10Oti: which is, which I found like shown through in the movie. You know, even when you're talking about, How he didn't want to feel as if you're rescuing anyone and everyone had their own vehicle to help themselves and to find that inner strength, inner power to just stand up and make the change. I love that aspect about this movie where, Oh, I'm not here to save you.

33:37Oti: You can do it yourself. Yes, you can do it. And

33:41KT: this is actually something that I thought was quite interesting because even women were saying. That they felt like Sobhita's character Sita, she didn't get enough airtime, which I agree with, but I don't think she was the make and break of this film because in other passive ways, Dev was able to demonstrate how important women are.

34:05KT: Or what do you think? Yeah,

34:07Oti: a hundred percent agree with you.

34:09KT: I think so as well. Right. You know, friends and lovers, you know, Dev even mentioned the Nirbhaya case, which, you know, at another time, friends and lovers, if you're interested, we can talk about, you know, preparing for interviews, getting ready for interviews and, you know, especially not expecting to connect deeply in a six minute junket.

34:31KT: but for him to be able to. Share that and for us to be in a very vulnerable space to the point where I feel the need to put a trigger warning on our very cute interview. again, like it meant a lot to me and being able to do that interview before seeing it the second time before all of the trailer stuff, It really meant a lot, because something that I will say, and I mentioned it at the start of the review, the ideology, the colors changed, but the brutality towards women still stayed in the film.

35:07KT: And I don't know, maybe at another time I can articulate why it was, upsetting and it's still a bit upsetting to me, but you can change the coloring. And apparently you say that doesn't change the messaging. Fine. But I still have to sit there and see women get brutalized and, and, and hurt in the most crude of ways.

35:34KT: You know what I mean? And one of the things, that I talked to you about, you know, just for watching like documentaries and reading news stories and that sort of thing is the practice known as bride burning and it happens in South Asia, but mostly in India. Where it comes to the dowry and the husband's family believes that the dowry isn't enough.

36:00KT: So they would literally either force the wives to unalive themselves. And the reason why I'm saying this, and that's why I put a trigger warning at the start of this review, friends and lovers is I've read reports on that, according to estimates from 2021, between 4,000 to 25,000 deaths occurred by bride burning in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

36:29KT: And the reason why I say that the reason why it's important for me as also a brown woman to mention on this podcast is. You might just be sitting there watching the film and literally the mom is burnt alive in this film. Yeah, you just might think, Oh, what a creative way to show violence. I was sitting there with the weight of that knowledge.

36:52KT: And I said to you, I hope that they've. Did that to effect in a way to create dialogue, to make people uncomfortable, but people probably don't even know that. So I'm just sitting here feeling very uncomfortable and especially that scene. But there were many scenes in the film in regards to women that I had to look away.

37:14KT: Like I just couldn't watch it. It just made me too uncomfortable and it was very upsetting.

37:20Oti: Yeah. That would make anyone uncomfortable. I didn't have that knowledge. On hand while watching this movie. But you know, once he told me in retrospect, yeah, it would have been, it would have definitely changed the tone or at least my, at least my emotions of when I was watching it.

37:38KT: So before we, before we get into a different theme, I just want to mention something that I learned on Don Cheadle's IMDb trivia, apparently, well, this film was rated R. And before it made its final cut, there was a rape scene in this.

38:00Oti: Oh, I'm glad it didn't make the cut.

38:01KT: I'm glad it didn't either. I feel like it didn't need to be in there. I don't know because we've talked friends and lovers. Usually it's by women directors, but we've talked about how, you know, scenes like that can be powerful and it is possible to be able to effectively put that in a film or in a narrative.

38:20KT: However, When I read that, I was like, okay, I'm glad that it wasn't in the final cut of the film. Well, let's move on to something, uh, a little bit more lighter.

38:30KT: I want to talk about religion slash politics, you know, Oti's favorite topic of corrupt politicians, which usually you say you don't even need to preempt the corruption.

38:42Oti: Yeah, it goes hand in hand. Uh, yeah, I think the main baddie in this is the corrupt politician who's abusing their power to control every aspect of the country and the people. And it's not until Dev's character stands up and tries to encourage people to fight for themselves. And that's powerful, right? To me, that's the, one of the most powerful things in the movie as well.

39:17Oti: at the end of the day, the politicians will use however which way to just stay ahead and contort whatever story they can to keep all of us plebs happy and content. Not even happy, just content and just following and eating crumbs and thinking that's

39:37KT: not even contempt, just feeding the machine,

39:40Oti: feeding the machine as disillusioned as we are.

39:44KT: Exactly. well, let's go to something a bit more happier, definitely with a lot more joy. I want to talk about hijra.

39:51KT: I want to talk about the third community. This was also something that was really nice to touch on in the interview with Dev. Um, because I wholeheartedly. Would love to see the embracing of pre colonial gender.

40:11KT: And by that, I mean, beyond the gender binary. And by that, I mean, holding the third gender in as much esteem as it deserves and prestige.

40:26Oti: A hundred percent. I think that was the scene where they come and storm in and try and rescue, this character and. In the, the first time I was watching it, I felt, Oh, this felt a bit corny, sad to say.

40:42Oti: On my second rewatch, it was quite powerful. At least in this instance, it felt, Oh, okay. Then they're helping themselves. They're coming in, they're claiming their glory in this space. And it felt very well executed.

41:00KT: Yeah, I absolutely agree. Um, I think watching it the second time round, it definitely felt like it was a bit more.

41:09KT: Cohesive, or at least there was less stimuli and we could just get into the core of the film, perhaps. Like we said, this film is very ambitious, but we probably won't get into it into a lot of detail, but, you know, there was talks about land theft, you know, the, the way that the media would report, or even Baba Shakti's character would say, you know, the land was barren.

41:34KT: And there was only a few families that would join the commune after. So it's really a spin of the journalism. But again, then it makes me sad about the overall messaging of the film. I do appreciate that, you know, it was. It was touched on and there was a hope to potentially go there, but I am excited to see, you know, future storytelling, from Dev and the team.

42:03Oti: A hundred percent.

42:05KT: Do you have any closing thoughts, Oti?

42:08Oti: Uh, I really enjoyed this movie. Uh, it covers a lot. It can be tough emotionally to watch this, but I think with every art, there should be a message and this does that in, in boatloads. So it's definitely something that Dev has excelled in making. And yeah, I'm just glad there's a movie like this in this space and this day and age as well.

42:38KT: Yeah, absolutely. I absolutely agree with you, Oti. I believe that good art, provocative art, art that is reflective of the culture and the resistance of changing culture is there as a way to bring change and isn't necessarily comfortable. So. While I do speak through themes and scenes that made me upset and also uncomfortable, it is dabbling in depths that films that we won't even talk about that I won't even bother to watch will even dare tread.

43:17KT: And that in and of itself is an achievement. And that is on black and Brown storytelling, baby. Yeah.

43:27KT: Um,

43:33KT: Thank you, friends and lovers for joining us another week in the For Your Reference household, and thank you especially because this was not an easy review. It definitely would have still been difficult after the first time we watched it. but upon reflection and, you know, having some time to reflect.

43:53KT: Ruminate about the film. We definitely had a lot of maturation, along the process as well. So again, thank you so much, friends and lovers for watching it, especially for those that like find themselves, you know, J Cole conflicted misusing their influence. So to say, we're going to finish off in a segment.

44:10KT: We call For Your Reference.

44:13Oti: Ooh, I'm going to reference White Tiger. Balram all the way.

44:23KT: What am I going to reference? You took the social commentary. So I'll just take the horny scatty boy and reference Infinity Pool.

44:30Oti: Oh,

44:30KT: nice. Nice. Uh, if you'd like to see our, sex montage on Twitter, Instagram, Spill, Bluesky, TikTok, we're @ForYourRefPod.

44:42Oti: Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

44:45KT: We're also on, did you bring your whole pussy podcast? If you'd like to leave a rating or review, and we'll see you guys next week.

44:52Oti: See ya.