Minx – Prigger Warning

Full transcript of Minx – Prigger Warning.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household and we are starting off with a Prigger warning. Friends and lovers, don't let your white feminism get in the way. Check out our episode of Total Control as well. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and editorial phallic lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT.

0:00Oti: And Oti.

0:00KT: Hide the sociopolitical medicine in the white feminist fish in the intersectionality pond. Mhmm. Free the mind. But shame all kinks with HBO's Minx this week. I love that. Hoo hoo.

1:08KT: Let's get into general stats and information, friends and lovers. And may we also say spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, prigger warning, prigger warning, prigger warning. We have creator of Ellen Rapoport. This show is released out of HBO Max, HBO in March 2022. We've had quite a delicious streak of new shows coming out in 2022, Oti. We have. Covered in the For Your Reference household if you nest it. In way of cast, we have Ophelia Lovibond and if you couldn't tell by her face, her name is very British. Someone talking about an adorable face, Jake Johnson,

1:52KT: someone that I didn't realize I was gonna grow to love and wanna hold to my bosom And also Taylor Zakhar Perez. Again, again, welcome round friends and lovers. We are going to have a tasty phallic conversation to snap off.

2:12Oti: Wow.

2:13KT: We do have some themes that I've written down Oti, and we're definitely going to get to, but let's get into first impressions. If you listen in a linear timeline, we did cover Total Control, very topical because we did just have the Australian election and that show kind of centers around politics. I think we also know that it's the first, like, politics genre we've covered on the podcast. Mhmm. But I also touched on the intersectionality in feminism and the difference that there is absolutely with white feminism exclusively. So let's talk about the show generally.

2:50KT: I do believe that you introduced that into the The For Your Reference household. So how did you feel watching it throughout as a self proclaimed

2:59Oti: Feminist.

3:00KT: Yeah. If you hear Oti say the word female in Shining Vale.

3:07KT: How how did you feel generally about the show, and where where where do you lie now, my love?

3:07Oti: Oh, yeah. I I saw the preview for this, and I thought it'll be some a bit of fun. Mhmm. I didn't really gravitate towards

3:20Oti: Prigger for some reason, which we'll we'll definitely get to. Yeah. She had her own ideas on what she wanted to achieve, but still was standing on other people. Like, it was fucked up. And I felt I found I found myself falling in and out with her. So it it was a really weird experience where sometimes I just felt like, do I really need to finish this episode? But overall, general picture, I think it was really good. People like Doug, Tina, you know, Bambi, they're all supporting

3:49Oti: supporting characters who really, really did bring this so much. Think it's one of those things where I'd compare it to Orange Is the New Black. You know, the fastest one really focused on on Piper, and she was annoying as fuck. And as soon as it continued, he sort of started getting other characters, and that sort of helped the show gain more momentum. For me, it happened with this. I think the Shellys, the Tinas, the Bambis

4:12Oti: made this show for me, the Dougs as well.

4:12KT: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, I will give credit where credit is due because, you know, I I get frustrated a lot and, you know, if if you're wanting to hear DMX KT, actually, you could probably check out any episode, but The White Lotus in particular, I had many qualm with with all of my with all of my authentic brown skin in the AAPI month. But this was really hitting stride. So shout out to Ellen Rapoport and everyone that's involved with Minx because

4:48KT: as you say, Joyce was very frustrating, but this was written from experience. Like, there there are so many layers to feminism and I guess not not a woman, but shout outs to Jamali of Hate Thy Neighbour because there is an episode I believe in season one where they talk about the SlutWalk. The ever eternal Amber Rose, I'll come and fight you motherfuckers if you say otherwise. And I really I really loved well, it was frustrating. I a 100% agree with you. But I love that this was written in a realistic way. And eventually,

5:25KT: for me, it took a bit too long. I would have liked it a bit sooner. But I like that Joyce was challenged

5:31KT: on her lack of dimension in her feminism.

5:31Oti: Yeah I saw that. I agree with you that it came a bit too late but it was then you know character growth and development is key.

5:31KT: No but I'm saying sometimes

5:43KT: and in this case this particular white woman needed to continue to learn the lesson. She as I mentioned in Total Control like she was picking up her pennies of oppression when you have black women like Tina was literally right there. You know what I mean? Like it becomes a bit deliberately discerning on how she wanted to paint her oppression. Right? Yeah. You know? And we do love rest in love and peace and power RBG, but she definitely didn't have layers of intersectionality

6:13KT: especially when it came to women. Anyway. Thank you for allowing American women to open bank accounts but that's as far as I'm going to go into today. Wow. Hey, you know, I'm for women and I'm going to hold my women accountable but I'm not even saying that Joyce's reluctance to understand the world around her it wasn't as if I was going to turn this show off it's like Succession like only Kendall would pretend to understand the plight of the common man right and it comes off very condescending

6:44KT: but I wouldn't expect super rich billionaire media conglomerates to care about the common man right so it made sense that Joyce was kind of traversing her world of oppression without understanding everyone else. That's what I'm saying. So I actually enjoyed that layer of it. I love that she got challenged in the show and I I absolutely love this.

7:09Oti: But I definitely have some some bones to pick with Joyce. And I hear you and I think that's where we sort of differ because in your enjoyment in seeing her trans traverse this journey, it was my frustration just growing and growing because at the end of the day, I just thought, mate, if you wanna be a good person, if you wanna be for women, if you wanna be for other people, just be for other people. Like, it doesn't have to be fucking layered or nuanced. It doesn't have to be, oh, because Bambi is fucking pretty, then she's just that pretty much and that has nothing else to offer. You know? You keep her in a box, and that's what she is. It's the American idolism.

7:45Oti: Like, you everyone needs a fucking backstory for you to care about them. Because without backstory, it's all shit.

7:45KT: Hey. Yeah. I guess so. Pretty much. But again, I I'm so happy with the journey that this show has gone and I'm very excited for, you know, any sort of future offerings in regards to the show. I love the dialogue. The dialogue was very funny. A lot of the episode, I am partial to a great episode title. So I did love the framing of the episodes. There were a lot of great quotes. The

8:17KT: audacious blistering of the shaft, jalapeno hand job, just lovely tasty dialogue that I really, really enjoyed in this show. It didn't try to be anything other than what this show was, And we did kind of explore different layers of feminism in the sense that there are so many different sort of experiences. Speaking of, Oti, I do have a couple of themes that I wanna talk about before we get into actual characters. The first theme I have is white feminist fish in the intersectionality pond, which is kind of continuing on what we've already talked about.

8:57KT: And I guess, you know, like I mentioned in Pachinko, the way I shouldn't get history from a novel, you also shouldn't get history from me reciting what I think I understand on a podcast. Feel free to go and do the work. Feel free to go and read all of the feminist knowledge. But in a nutshell when we talk about intersectionality, the experience of a woman is not the experience of all women.

9:23Oti: Facts.

9:24KT: Just like the experience of black people is not the same experience of all black people. Yeah you better tell your friend Dave Chappelle.

9:37Oti: Not today, not today, you're not starting with me KT.

9:42KT: But essentially, when we talk about intersectionality, we talk about the unique experiences and how it doesn't wholly encompass, especially when we talk about feminism, it doesn't wholly encompass the whole situation

9:55KT: and you're really missing a lot of the pie. And I think that really rings true throughout all of the first season in regards to Joyce.

9:55Oti: And just contrasting that with what Tina had to go through, you know, she knew what she had to do. She was patient. She had a plan with Doug on how they'd get to, you know, that top build to to own that building, you know? They had a plan. They had a vision. They knew what they had to do. Tina was happy to, you know, let them overlook me. Let them think I'm whatever. It doesn't fucking matter. I know what my end goal is, and that's where I'm going. Yeah. She didn't want to trivial of course, it's not trivializing

10:33Oti: what she was going through or or even that it wasn't affecting her. Of course, it was. But you have to keep the eye on the prize and she knew that, you know what? I can change a lot of this shit. She was a real one.

10:33KT: Would you say that she was your favorite character?

10:33Oti: There were moments where I had a bit of frustrations with her in terms of her trying to pivot and change directions. Of course, when opportunity presents itself, I wanted her to jump on board faster

11:01Oti: where instead of saying, okay, you didn't agree with Prigger Big coming in and doing her own magazine, but once you saw the the effect it had and you saw it was actually a moneymaker and it was gonna change the industry, I wanted her to switch her mentality a tad faster,

11:20Oti: but she took her time. She still held on that dream and understandably so. I just wanted her to make that decision a bit quicker.

11:20KT: Do you think it's also because she has an affinity for Doug? Like, she has a real love for Doug?

11:20Oti: Yeah. There's that. But I thought that it was sort of written on stone on what she wanted to do to progress them to that building, to that vision,

11:41Oti: to that deluxe apartment in the sky. It was a moment of her trying to stick to that plan regardless of whatever was happening around her. But even if and this is what the tricky thing is, you know, even in sports when you can have your plan of where you think your position should be at the start of the season. By the end of it, you know, you wanna finish up with this position.

12:02Oti: But things happen within the season that can dictate how you can pivot and change your plans. And I just felt that Tina was a bit apprehensive with that. It be it I don't think her having affections for Doug had anything to do. I just think that she had already come up with her own plan on how she saw it walking and anything coming to distract that was super noise even if this time it was good noise.

12:02KT: You made a lot of man noise. This is our porn episode and you're talking about sports? I

12:35KT: I really enjoyed Tina. I would have really I would have really appreciated seeing more of her in the show. And I even mentioned it to you, like, because we were watching Winning Time the same time as we were watching Minx. Yeah? And Winning Time was obviously written by Adam McKay, and I will mention Don't Look Up in a memento. But with Winning Time, it was very clear that there was a story potentially being written by a majority white writer's room, but there was a consideration to black culture. Right? So when music was being played,

13:11KT: it kind of fit and it kind of made sense. If I wanna be generous to the writers rooms and the creators of Minx, I would say maybe they were being ironic, but it felt starkly abstract that they had a lot of black music influenced of the era of the seventies for white woman. Like, it just it was so it was so, like, starkly defined to me that I'm like, surely people notice this. Surely people are noticing

13:44KT: how fucking white this show is in the sense that Joyce is our lens and she operates from that lens without any consideration of the whole experience of being a woman. I I it it felt very obvious to me. Again, if I'm giving graces, it was a deliberate ironic snarky Sorkin, you know, nose up to the world. But I really don't think so. I think they wanted some flavor and they did it through the soundtrack.

13:44Oti: Yeah. A 100% with you there.

13:44KT: While we're on intersectionality,

14:14KT: I wanna talk a lot about Wendy Ma. Wendy Ma is a perfect example of, you know, a woman of color, an Asian woman that is in the public mainstream consciousness with a book that Joyce poo poos with a publication with, you know, academic sort of backing and we get a very cute sort of comeuppance moment with Joyce when Wendy Ma kind of throws it to the feminist group wolves in the university with the menstrual curtain beads. Yeah. The the feminist in me stopped me from putting that in the intro description, friends and lovers. Wow.

14:52KT: No. But I think that was one of the first real moments where one of the uni students

14:58KT: actually pointed out, where where do you ever talk about black women?

14:58Oti: Yeah. And that's where your quick sort of feminism box doesn't apply to all, you know, where you get to start having divisions and experiences being different because not everyone experiences the same thing, but not necessarily everyone going through what people are advocating for. You know? If if it's fair wages, fine, but you still find black women earning way less.

15:26Oti: You know? It's that sort of shit that needs to be at the forefront. But you know what? Fuck that noise. And I think that's where my frustration with this whole Prigger thing came from because I just didn't see her She wasn't a representative voice for all women. Yeah. Yeah. And she kind of tried to helm that. And she had the biases. I I accept that she's fucking human

15:48Oti: and you'd all have that. And I'm I'm glad that it was written in terms of, hey, this is actually her learning and her journey to discover that this is way more than what she understood.

16:01KT: But can we also acknowledge that people's life struggles aren't your learning moments?

16:01Oti: Yeah yeah but she had to learn one way or another right?

16:01KT: Yeah but then she should do the fucking work she's a fucking feminist she's got a feminist porn magazine But, yeah, Wendy Ma, I do hope we see a little bit more of Wendy Ma later on in the show. It was just it was delicious. And I guess while we're staying in this sort of intersectionality, it can still be within the white sort of race. Right?

16:39KT: And we see that with Bambi, like you said. You know? She doesn't necessarily see herself high in the pecking order, and I don't think anyone does any work to make her feel as if she can be beyond her looks. Right? And, you know, there was a a kind of cute simp incel joke of when she said that she was going to stop modeling because she didn't wanna be oppressed and then the men sort of like created an uproar and a protest about it. Simps unite and all of that. But it was definitely,

17:14KT: you know, her breaking. I would say Bambi had more of a, like, character arc in regards to her growth and her willingness to accelerate her character growth as opposed to Joyce. Joyce kind of fought it all along the way.

17:14Oti: True. I think, yeah, like you said, Bambi even helped Shelly way more than we see Prigger doing anything for her.

17:14KT: Yeah. And Shelly is a perfect perfect segue to the next theme, freedom of the mind but shame all the kinks. Wow.

17:45KT: Oti. I don't know about you. I don't know if you know this, but I'm a very sexual woman. Uh-huh. You know, I it's all about inviting our friends and lovers to the bean flicking couch. I'm very pro sex poz. I I'm all about reproductive rights. Something that really frustrated me about this show, but just frustrates me about women in general, is we are born into this neo matrix binary in regards to gender, but also in regards to the rigidity of sexuality.

18:17KT: Right? And a lot of a lot of what we're taught, we don't do the work to unlearn in the sense that, you know, a lot of the sex education is really geared towards straight hetero couples but even then it's about the pleasure of the man. Right? So that's not necessarily on young women to to to be able to navigate that. However,

18:43KT: I don't think as women we do enough to unpack that right because if anything I say on this podcast has shocked you then you haven't been doing the work friends and lovers maybe I've been doing too much work doing overtime on that bean flicking couch but I guess what really what really frustrated me about this is how can there be so much emphasis on freedom and and ownership and autonomy of the mind, but there's so much repression, There's so much shame. There's so much hush-hush

19:15KT: in regards to sexual freedom. That makes no sense to me.

19:15Oti: Sign of the times, I guess, because this show is in the seventies. So people aren't really, you know, exploring that much. It's not tattooed on their sleeves. It's understandable that, you know, everyone wants to sound as if they don't wanna explore shit. But to me, Shelly was this clear sign of, hey, there's nothing wrong in exploring your sexuality. You know? It it it was it was hard trying to understand after years of not being fulfilled.

19:47Oti: Something that a, Joyce shouldn't have used it as a as a fucking new news tidbit. Yeah. That was annoying. As a sound bite. Yeah. As a giggle gaggle chortle. Mhmm. Yeah. That was fucked up. It was fucked up. Your own sister. Especially because Joyce wasn't even comfortable with toys. Yeah. My ward. Disgusting.

20:06KT: Don't wait for a man. Don't wait for another human while we're at it. Don't even wait for a toy. You've got a bean flicking couch, you've got some extremities, you'll be fine friends and lovers, get flexible. No, but like Shelly was so open to and I again, I am speaking as a woman, like, it is to to be brought up in a man's world, it is very easy to default to, oh, I need a man to satisfy me. But fuck that noise.

20:06Oti: Well, she got Bambi.

20:06KT: Let me see you do that yoga.

20:42KT: Oti bend over.

20:42Oti: Oh, wow. But it's it's so clear that what Bambi brought into this, at least in terms of Shelly Shelly's growth and development and appreciating that there's so much more that she can do with her own sexuality

20:59Oti: as well Mhmm. And not feel like, oh, I've just chucked out two kids. That's my life. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. There's more to it. You can still enjoy yourself. You can still do more with it. And I was glad that she got together that storyline. And that's for me why I felt Joyce just became a hindrance. I just felt frustrated every time I saw Joyce trying to figure herself out Yeah. When we had stronger characters on the sidelines who are actually

21:26Oti: grabbing shit by the scruff of the neck and doing stuff.

21:26KT: Yeah. No. Absolutely. I absolutely agree. I I like I I can't speak more highly of Shelly and you you talk about Bambi as well, you know, reawakening that sort of sexual desire and, you know, in a in a in a man geared world, like, it makes sense why Shelly didn't wanna mention to her husband.

21:47KT: But I do wanna give kudos to the fact that she was able to stare at what it means to embrace her sexuality as a woman and explore that. Because it can be a very scary place. Call me KT the doula. I'll deliver your sploosh babies friends and lovers. I don't know. I I just wanted to spend a bit of time on that because it's all about like you're saying like working for equal pay but even then the equal pay is more geared towards white women as opposed to black and brown women and minorities.

22:24KT: So even that's that doesn't hold for all of women because if it's all of women, we're doing all of women. We're not doing the Lena Dunham feminism. Okay. Well, let's get into the last thing I have before we dabble into characters. I've got ownership and selling out. This was, again, we're gonna talk about your best friend, Joyce. I'm just talking about creativity and I guess editorial integrity in general because the whole premise of this show is that Joyce wants to be able to publish her own magazine, a feminist geared magazine.

23:01KT: And we meet Doug and he's a porn mag guy and he's he's absolutely great with it. And one of the best quotes in this show comes from Doug when he talks about having to hide the medicine, you know? And it it's kind of a switch in the show where you realize, you know, it was quite early to me because I kind of discounted Joyce immediately.

23:20KT: But you see with Doug, he's an actual businessman and he's got an acumen to him. Yeah. Like it's it's a carrot in the stick sort of scenario if you'll pardon the phallic pun. Mhmm. But I I wanted to talk a little bit about this theme because there was a lot of push and pull or maybe it was just the over expectations that Joyce had because she kept overstepping her boundaries with Doug. And I, again, as the residential woman, I didn't see it as Doug manhandling her. I saw him as the publisher

23:51KT: also having a say and having decisions because Joyce wanted everything to go her way without any sort of, like, business experience. Oh, even publishing experience. Or money or funding.

24:03Oti: Yeah. It's it's wild because we get to see her fight Doug every step of the way. Yeah. Doug has published heaps and heaps of magazine. Yeah. Be it porn, doesn't fucking matter. Yeah. He's still publishing something that Joyce didn't have. Yeah. And Doug was the only person that saw that saw Joyce's promise. And he's like, you know what? Let's publish your stuff. I'll give you control. We'll do this. We'll make it colorful. But there was something there. Yeah. One thing that no one else that Joyce thought was respectable in publishing

24:37Oti: Yeah. Did. Yeah. You know, you don't have to be fucking snobby to get shit done. And anyway, Joyce was in my cup of tea. But it just goes to show you, sometimes you just have to get it out there. Absolutely agree.

24:49KT: Or can we talk about a tasty moment like surrounding Joyce and Doug? Mhmm. This is about the advertisers which was quite early on in the season when Joyce I don't know. I feel like she expected the world to fall at her feet and I guess via through Doug and she was kind of poo pooing all of the advertisements, you know that were being run in Minx which first of all fuck off lady, you don't have any money anyway. You don't even get to choose

25:19KT: but second of all remember how she tried to go to a country club And she tried to make those connections only to find, surprise to no one, only Joyce that the head of the country club was a sleazy fucking man. Yep. I believe it was Joyce that, you know, confessed that he inappropriately touched her as a minor, that's why she never came there anymore. But what I really love, again, it's that constant sort of challenging of the status white feminism quo of,

25:49KT: connections, yeah, you've got highly successful people, but they're still fucking creeps too. Mhmm. Right? And, you know, Doug also mentions that to Joyce that he's asking for a night with Bambi. Yeah. The last thing I wanna say in regards to ownership and selling out is Joyce really enjoyed painting, you know you know, her soaking her bra and menstrual blood and throwing it around in the streets. Right? She was very she was very pro, you know, on the ground floor activism.

26:21KT: At least that's how she wanted to portray herself. Right? And I kind of really love this moment as well where Maggie invited her over And

26:30KT: she was kind of the animal at the zoo.

26:30Oti: Yeah. It was good to see her not being the classy one or the most elite person in the room. And the fact that they're all like, oh, we need to rescue you from all this nonsense, you know. I think it was so much needed. Yeah. She needed to see just how out of touch they were. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, they're communicating to people like themselves. Yeah. And for you, you're if you're catering to all females

27:02KT: Oh my. See, friends and lovers? You don't even have to go back to the other episode. You can hear once you say female now. Oh,

27:09Oti: wow. No but that that was a that was a goal. Right? She was being very Jake Sully from Avatar

27:17KT: because she all of the judgy things her friends, well I guess Maggie's friends were saying, she she definitely a 100% was saying the same shit at the start of the show. Yep. Acting like she's some sort of exalted being and what was really interesting was Maggie's like because she's like oh I don't want to write about this I don't want to write about that and it's like oh so you get to pick and choose like cause you're you're exploiting yourself in this way to get attention but then in in this way, it's not right.

27:47KT: I just love it. There was a constant challenging but I think we personally would have enjoyed more challenging of Joyce.

27:47Oti: Oh, for sure.

27:47KT: The the the baby sort of theme that I wanna mention as well is the power dynamics of a superior and a subordinate. And I'm speaking specifically about Joyce and Shane. I think it's shitty all around. I absolutely think it's shitty all around. She took advantage of Shane, albeit Shane kind of saw it as a serious long term non fling. But irregardless, you know, Joyce took advantage of her powerful position.

28:24KT: And we also see a flashback when her and Maggie were working and she was being taken advantage of as well. I don't think it is lessened. I don't think you can soften it and be pink and fluffy just because she's a woman. It's still as gross and disgusting personally to me. It is.

28:41Oti: She knew what she was doing. Yeah. She knew that Shane was catching feelings. Yeah. She didn't care. And then for her to sort of brush it aside as if, he's not smart enough or he's not at my intellectual

28:53Oti: level, then it's okay to do what she was doing. Yeah. As if Shane didn't have any feelings. Yeah. And then even the audacity to fucking speak like that in front of Shane's parents or whatever, like, mate.

28:53KT: No. But then it's also like, are you a staunch feminist until a hot guy with a big dick comes along? Because what's

29:13KT: the the fight the fight for equality is going to take a long hard fucking time. Yeah. Yeah. Which character do you wanna get into? I think we've had enough about Joyce. Who would you like to talk about?

29:13Oti: Let's talk about Richie.

29:13KT: Okay. I feel like without any sort of context, I loved him immediately. And then as time went on, he continued to reinforce how much I love him. There was a very interesting sort of angle that sort of seeped into, I would say, the last half of the season where as he was the photographer,

29:47KT: there was a lot of queer interest

29:50KT: even though this was potentially a straight feminist magazine.

29:50Oti: I connected Rich the most just because of he saw himself as inferior to other artists. He didn't even consider himself as an artist per se. You know, he he walked into the room and he immediately felt as if he doesn't belong. All he does is shoot nudes. Yeah. But he still has an artistic eye and

30:14Oti: something that is hard to come by. And when he was giving you even when he was being complimented, he felt as if he was yeah. He he felt as if he was sort of half assed or something like that. Like, they didn't mean it. Yeah. But slowly, he came to understand that he is valuable. Yeah. What he does is value. Yeah. And he can get whatever it is he wants. Yes.

30:35KT: Absolutely. And I a 100% agree. He he grew in confidence as the show went on and he definitely got his, which was very nice to see.

30:35Oti: Yeah. Once you understand that 98%

30:48Oti: of people out there don't know what the fuck they're doing. Right?

30:48KT: Yep.

30:53Oti: You'll be alright.

30:53KT: And and and most of them thrive through nepotism.

30:57Oti: Yep. No. Like, I I never really understood the fuck until I started bloody working in an office environment. And you soon understand that, mate, it's just getting your fucking foot in that door. The rest fucking thing will just follow. Some people were born for greatness. Some people were born for middle management.

31:17KT: Oh, fuck. Speaking of middle management, let's talk about Bridget Westbury. I feel like through this fictional show, it was confirmed that she is perhaps lesbian. Perhaps. Or would you say it was clearly outlined in the show?

31:17Oti: No. You could tell she had some feels.

31:17KT: Okay. Thank you, Katy Perry. Mhmm. And I I I guess maybe that comes back to conversations we've had on the podcast through various characters that aren't necessarily all the way out or maybe it's not safe for them to be out.

31:53KT: But there is a lot of damage especially because she works with a lot of young women and there's a lot of shame surrounded with any sort of, you know, even if you develop early, you're a fucking sin and and you're causing grown men to sin. Jesus Christ. What a fucking disgusting world this is.

31:53Oti: Yeah. I hate people who try to impose fucking religious beliefs on other people.

32:17Oti: It doesn't matter what you think is right. You live you you do you. If that's what you wanna live by, fucking hell. Lord's gonna tell you otherwise.

32:17KT: We're ready to do Under the Banner of Heaven, aren't we?

32:17Oti: Yes, we are. Just do not impose it on anyone else.

32:32KT: You can either read the Book of Mormon or you can listen to all the podcast episodes where I reference it and my my childhood friends and lovers. I think that will be the longest episode of Love I Do. It'll become a proverbial audiobook for the Mormon teachings. Mhmm. No. But I absolutely agree. I yeah. You know, I I will always be the one to, you know, sound the trump to pardon a biblical phrase of religion, but I I don't necessarily think it's religion. I think I think Bridget Westbury is just pandering to the audience

33:09KT: and the audience is very conservative. The audience is very homophobic. But apparently, he's fine with the country club men just running rampant on young women. Yeah. Carey Carey Mulligan was onto something. Go and check out Promising Young Woman, friends and lovers. We don't have an episode, but we did talk about it on Patreon.

33:09Oti: Yeah. It just and it's sort of folly. Like, a lot of the people that you hold

33:34Oti: in high respect, they're the most fucking dirtiest, perverse people you'll ever meet. Yeah. Once you take a peek behind the curtain, fucking hell.

33:34KT: Where are you taking your animals, George Oti Orwell?

33:50KT: That's a literary reference, friends and lovers. But

33:55KT: do you think we're going to see more about Bridget in the next season?

33:55Oti: She's not going anywhere. Yeah. I think she's the sort of biggest hindrance to to Prigger and Doug.

34:06KT: So I think there was also an exchange with Doug where he tries to sweeten, you know, the honey pot and she's like, you're not going to I'm not like the last guy. You can't butter me up. I'm going to clean up the city. Yeah. And then Doug made a comment about how the porn industry or how his industry bring in a lot of revenue for the area. And can we also acknowledge that as well? Because the math doesn't math, friends and lovers. If we're going to count everything, we need to count all political contributions.

34:34KT: Thank you very much. Mhmm. It's and this is the egregiousness and I guess we can bring the religion component as well, but it is normal and it is okay to have sexual desires. Therefore, having supplementary literary sort of materials is okay. There's nothing fucking wrong with porn. So why do we why do we live in this hypocritical society

35:01KT: where we pretend like it isn't?

35:01Oti: Yeah. There's no commandment. Do not watch porn.

35:06KT: Head coorn. Go check out our District 9 episode for the title alone, friends and lovers. But that's something that's really frustrating to me because having a sexual desire is such a normal fucking thing yet we we treat it like it's some dirty fucking thing. Yeah.

35:25Oti: Well, we just need to get to a place where all this is sort of normalized

35:30Oti: once people start talking about this shit.

35:30KT: Wow. Are you talking about a world where females have body autonomy? Yeah. Well, you better fucking wake up in three thousand years with your cryogenic chamber. It's not fucking happening now anytime soon.

35:45Oti: Maybe we do need to go to the animal farm then. Am I the pig behind the curtain? Mhmm.

35:50KT: Well, you called me the scarlet pig in Porco Rosso. Go and check out our Miyazaki reference degustation. But I I am Oti Scarlet Pig if you're nasty. Squeal like a pigger. And we diffuse annoying white feminism with South Park friends and lovers. RZD. I wanna talk about Glenn, our sky high follower.

36:15KT: What are your thoughts on him?

36:15Oti: He he frustrated me at the start of the show, but I kind of I don't know if I liked him by the end of it, but I kind of got an understanding of who he was as a character. He surprised me. I felt like he would try and hold Joyce back. Man is man. Yeah. Or even try and get revenge, but he was very helpful. Even after they'd broken up, he was like, okay. You need to do this. You need to go and meet this person. I was like, wait. What? Are you helping Joyce?

36:44Oti: And then only for the final shoe to drop when he was like, oh, yeah. Let's start up a business together, the two of us with your editorial. Something he never wanted Joyce to do in the first place. But because it got us leader of sort of success, was like, yes. Now we can do this properly, Just you and I.

36:44KT: No. But can we also acknowledge the same thing with the power imbalance

37:07KT: where she took the opportunity to fuck Shane. She also fucked Glenn because she needed validation in that moment. So how is that not using him? He was just going to she was just going to a safe dick.

37:07Oti: No. I get that. But you're saying it as if she's some damsel in distress that needed fucking saving and she did it. Things were unraveling fast for her and Glenn was there to sort of hold the pieces together.

37:07KT: No. But you're saying as if it was a manipulative ploy,

37:32KT: which may be

37:32Oti: No. I thought it was manipulative. I just didn't think that I I wanted to know what his end game was. And we didn't get to hear it up until the end Yeah. When he thought, okay, Joyce, let's do our thing together with your you know, with my connections and whatever. I was like, okay. So all this must have been just a ruse because

37:52Oti: what the fuck else does it explain how you treated Joyce? Especially after the way things ended, it just didn't feel right.

37:52KT: Well, no. Because we we we talk about this in the Bel Air episode where Uncle Phil as much as he loves Aunt Viv, he doesn't really see her as equal. He sees her as a patter on the head woman by my side. Right? So I think Glenn was very much in that sort of sense which doesn't make sense because, you know, Joyce is fighting for equality but at the same time,

38:23KT: you know, she was getting something out of the relationship as well even when they were outside of a relationship and she got the proverbial and the physical fucking.

38:23Oti: Yeah. I hear you.

38:23KT: But going back to safe dick isn't exploring your sexuality. Can we just point that out?

38:38KT: Sorry sorry for the non prigger warning friends and lovers but there you go. Like, again, get limber, meet yourself on the bean flicking couch and find some extremities. You'll be fine. You'll be absolutely fine. Put on some Barry White. Get a nice cinnamon scented candle while you're at it. Wow. Don't worry about my animal farm. The petunias are about to bloom, Mertie. Clearly. But a a lot happened, I would say. A lot happened in this show. But while we're finishing off talking about Glenn and Joyce's sort of dynamic,

39:14KT: I'm not gonna spoil it, but another HBO show that we were watching around the same time was Julia. And we see a similar sort of dynamic between her and her husband. And I'm not sure, friends and lovers, if you're interested in us talking about Julia, it did make us very hungry every time we watched it.

39:34Oti: I wonder why.

39:36KT: But if you're interested, perhaps we might cover it. But, yeah, there was definitely power imbalance and a particular sort of dynamic that was in Julia as well as between Joyce and Glenn in Minx. Thank you friends and lovers for joining us another week in the For Your Reference household. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference,

39:59KT: Oti.

39:59Oti: I'd like to reference Julia also on HBO.

40:03KT: Nice. Very nice. Stretch that subscription if you're nasty. I did say I was gonna talk about Don't Look Up, but I decided for myself, I'm not gonna mention it in the AAPI month. Thank you very much. I will reference a holistic approach to feminism without having to fucking preach about it. M I.

40:26Oti: Crooked letter crooked letter I. Crooked letter, crooked letter I. Humpback humpback.

40:33KT: It's Pussy Valley, motherfuckers. June 3, we'll see you on the bean flicking couch. Splooshes are mandatory. If you'd like to preemptively send your mandatory splooshes on Twitter and Instagram, we're at 4.

40:48KT: Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast dot com.

40:52KT: We're also on all women aren't for women podcast if you like to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.