Master of None – Ravi, Ravi, Ravi in a White Man’s world

Full transcript of Master of None – Ravi, Ravi, Ravi in a White Man’s world.

0:00KT: Howdy. It's For Your Reference. Oti, we have a Patreon shout out and Quid Pro Mo.

0:00Oti: Yep.

0:00KT: And this is for the delectable, undisputed Julio from The Contrarians Podcast. I knew that Julio and I were going to get along when he coined me the queen of the hot takes. Not on purpose. It just comes naturally. So if you guys have never checked out The Contrarians Podcast, essentially,

0:29KT: they rage against the rotten tomatoes machine. So if something is classified as rotten or super, super fresh, they kind of give opposing views and, you know, share their real takes in regards to that. So I don't know if we'll ever get to that point where, you know, films that make us really angry will be able to thoughtfully discuss them, Murti. Do you think we will be able to do that?

0:29Oti: No. Not in the slightest. Probably not.

0:29KT: Julio is our fifth patron, and, also, they've done five years of podcasting.

0:57KT: Oh. So congratulations to Julio and also Alex from The Contrarians Podcast. Take the promo away.

1:06Clip: Let's see, Alex. What do you think of Jaws, which is at 97% Rotten Tomatoes? I find it to be anti shark propaganda. What do you feel about the Entourage movie, which is at a meager 33%? I think they finally got Hollywood right. How about It Follows? 97%. Worse than your parents giving you the sex is evil talk. How do you feel about Juno, which is at 94%? That would be a movie that celebrates a teenage homewrecker. How about Bewitched at 25%?

1:32Clip: Best television adaptation ever puts a film. How do feel about American Hustle in the towering 93%. Overwrought awards bait. Righteous Kill, 19%. The movie that Michael Mann wishes he had made when he created Heat. Sounds about right. I'm Julio. I'm Alex, and we are The Contrarians. As you can tell, our thing is that we rage against the Rotten Tomatoes machine. Regardless of what we really feel. Find us on Apple Podcast, SoundCloud, Stitcher, TuneIn. Facebook, Twitter, we're everywhere.

2:31KT: Hey, friends and lovers. Welcome back to For Your Reference. You've got your hair as KT.

2:31Oti: And Oti.

2:31KT: And get ready to press send on those Hi Cuties because we are having pasta, and The Sickening is happening. Thank you so much for listening. If you guys follow us in linear time and you also follow us on Twitter, this is our third time attempting this recording. Right, OZ? You better walk this time, mate. And all of the pod gods have been punishing us, and apparently, we said some spicy things. So let's try and say it again

3:06KT: and see how we go. We're going to hell. We know that. Robot Jesus is going to be in heaven by himself. So thank you for perusing our back catalog while you've been waiting for this sumptuous, delicious, all encompassing episode. You've read the title. You're in for a good time. We are covering Master of None today. So we stumbled across this just like at the start of a weekend, and we finished it by, like, Monday morning. Before we start off with our first impressions,

3:37KT: I just wanna cover what's kind of becoming a segment now called foundational qualms. So it's essentially things that we address just so we can get to the actual discussion of the show or the movie. You know, obviously, there was controversy surrounding Aziz in regards to Me Too, whether you agree, whether you don't agree, that sort of thing, or you just can't deal with him as a person, then that's perfectly fine. We do have some other episodes

4:07KT: you can check out, but we're really not going to be addressing that today. So if you're in for the journey, strap in, strap on, let's get into it. Grab yourself a snack, grab yourself a

4:07Oti: Yeah. But if if that if that bothers you and you don't feel comfortable

4:21Oti: enjoying Master of None because of all of the outside stuff, then that's also fine as well.

4:21KT: Yep. Cool. So now that's out of the way, let's get into first impressions. Oti, how do you feel about like, have you checked out a lot of Aziz's work? Did you enjoy this? Because this has been out since 2015.

4:38Oti: So there's obviously a reason why it took us this long to get into this show. I tried it, I think, the same day it came out, and I couldn't get past the past five minutes of it. Aziz's voice just irritated the hell out of me. I was like, no, man. I'm not doing this. I've not checked any of his other things. I think he's in Parks and Rec. Yeah. Not really my cup of tea, but we

5:04Oti: gave it such a long time and it's gotten so many awards and Like it's on the top 10 list of TV shows and that's why And I was like, okay, maybe it's about time we actually give this a go. Yeah.

5:04KT: And I'm sorry to expose you Oti, but I know you use a modulator

5:19KT: and you actually sound like Aziz.

5:19Oti: Because I don't even need a modulator for that, mate.

5:19KT: As as as much as you sound sexy, we all know you're not real. So I know you're using that modulator, very heavy. So in regards to first impressions with Aziz, I think the first time I actually remember seeing him was in 30 Minutes or Less with Jesse Eisenberg. So you're just an eye Jesse Eisenberg and also Aziz. So that movie needed a lot of help.

5:48KT: I actually enjoyed it. And it was based on let's all wank ourselves off because people say based on a lot. That movie was based on a true story as well.

5:57Oti: They're all based on true stories. True stories. Oh, wow. True stories. True stories. Check into the Kenyan edition.

6:07KT: Need to fix that modulator, mate. Yep. So I just I just I I just didn't get his vibes. Like, I'm quirky, and, you know, this is my sort of shtick. Like, there's a family guy cutaway where, you know, they're sitting around watching the TV, and they're like, these are comedians that we're forcing you to like. And then Aziz shows up first of all, he's like, I'm talking very softly, and I'm talking loud now.

6:33KT: And that's kind of, like, his shtick.

6:33Oti: He's kinda like, yeah. He's there, but I don't really need to check for you. You're just

6:33KT: It's so true though. Right?

6:33Oti: Yeah. That's Like like five years ago or whatever, four and a half years ago, I was like, I can't stand his voice at all. And rewatching this, I was like, oh, wouldn't give me the chance over the weekend? I was like, oh, it's not so bad. It is. Like, I didn't even I didn't pay any sort of credence or attention to it.

6:56Oti: I think it's more to do with my ears just being old now. You know, it's like the perfect text for you know, the trending thing, Laurel Yanny. And back then I was like, oh, mate, Aziz is worse. I just can't take it. And now I was like, oh, it's alright.

7:11KT: My ears are old now. Well, in that universe, I'm hearing Dev Patel. Oh. That's what I'm hearing. Shout outs to Oti because he does love a reference, but he loves a reference from years ago. And the reason why he loves the Laurel Yanny so much is because he he picked up the ones that the young people pick up, and I apparently picked up the ones that the old people

7:11Oti: Young years, mate.

7:11KT: Yeah. So Oti is holding on to that

7:41Oti: Like, it will be on my epitaph. Wow.

7:46KT: Is that the epitaph you wanna die on? Yep. Literally? Alright. Well well, that's on you, dude. But, yeah, coming back to Aziz, I just like, I didn't really need to and then you had Parks and Rec. If you've listened to any of our episodes in regards to TV shows, specifically 30 Rock, I like to keep to my own sort of shows. And, you know, Parks and Rec is kind of like the offspring from the American office. Right? You've got Michael Schur, who's from The Office, and he also does Good Place as well

8:16KT: and then you have Aziz and then you also have Alan Yang who works closely together for Master of None as well like yeah I'm sure it's cool and I'm sure it's funny and people love that Ron Swanson or whatever his name is like like but it's kind of the same iteration of what has come before them. You know what I mean? It's not anything interesting. So I didn't really need to watch I've tried to watch Parks and Rec, like, six times maybe. And I'm like, I get it. Like, cool.

8:43KT: And this is when Chris Pratt was actually likable, but my my rant about Chris Pratt is not going to fit in this episode. Choose a fucking lane. You and Ryan Ryan Reynolds, choose a fucking lane. You're the heartthrob or you're the goofy funny person. You can't be both. Give ugly people a chance. Well, there needs to be a place for everyone. So these good looking people need to get lost. Now let's get back to the show. What a great show. Let's just talk about it

9:13KT: generally. So you've got Aziz Ansari. You've got Eric Wareheim. I love how the white person, I can't say his name, Lena Waithe, Kelvin Yu, and also Noel Wells as Rachel. So that's the main sort of cast. I do wanna spend a bit of time talking about the guest stars because that is two chef kisses right there. And that's a part in the reference because he he makes pasta so technically he's a chef, kind of. Chef Jeff. Chef Jeff. When he was good.

9:46KT: Spoiler spoiler spoiler, I guess. But I, like, this show can be consumed even with spoilers. Like, doesn't have except for season two, it kinda doesn't really have an overarching narrative. Yeah. It's more about themes that get explored, and I'm really excited to get into that as well today. Oh, for sure. So let's let's quickly talk about the guest stars. 2015 to 2017, Aziz also mentioned in an interview, you know, there's only so much he can say about a young guy in New York who loves pasta. So

10:14KT: probably not going to have a season three unless he like gets married or has a kid, like some sort of milestone to push that sort of narrative along and that's perfectly fine because you could keep it to season one and I'm fine with that. Or until that pepper dries up. Right? Yep. Until he needs to come back and make some more. That's usually what happens. But at least he's successful enough to have a choice. Oh, for sure. Right? Not like Constance Wu, but we're not getting into that today. Oh, wow. Jesus.

10:43KT: So let's get to the guest stars. One of the best guest stars or whenever he appears, because he's in everything. Like, he appears in everything. H. Jon Benjamin. Yes, please. I'll take another Archer. Thank you. And you didn't realize that he was in The Sickening.

10:43Oti: No. Because he was wearing he was wearing this

11:04Oti: containment mask or something, and his voice was all muffled. I was like, sounds a bit familiar, but I didn't pick it up until you're like, oh, that's Archer, mate.

11:10KT: But I think you also forget what H. Jon Benjamin looks like. So you're probably expecting, like, an Archer-esque sort of physique. You see this, like, cute little man.

11:26KT: But, oh, it was so good, and he had so many one liners that he would say to Dev. And for that alone, it was great to have him in the show. Yeah. Like, his voice. Thank you very much. So it was very nice to have H. Jon Benjamin in the show. And he was in quite a few episodes, so it was nice to see him come along the journey. Danielle Brooks from Orange Is The New Black. Mhmm. She plays the agent for Dev. Yep. She's still waiting for that friend's money.

11:52KT: She's very effective. I think we might have seen her in, like, one other thing other than Orange is the New Black. No. But she we did see her randomly in something we were watching. So it's nice to see that she can have fun because her role on Orange is the New Black was quite serious.

12:06Oti: Taystee.

12:07KT: Hey. So that was nice to see. Oh. I don't really know much about his filmography, but Colin Salmon. Oh. He was swimming up my streams. Tell voice.

12:20Oti: Bloody hell. I think they just got him here to say ridiculous stuff. Oh, yes.

12:25KT: Like and and it's very effective. It is effective. It's a good Salmon. It's it's a it's a common sort of formula, but it works. By god, does it work. Oh, it does. It does.

12:25Oti: If Morgan Freeman has, like, bronchitis,

12:38Oti: then Colin Salmon is right there behind him. It's like a novelty. You know? Like, you get to see him do something quacky. You're like, oh, yes. I live for this. It was so nice to hear him say ridiculous things.

12:49KT: And with H. Jon Benjamin, but with Colin Salmon in particular, it really reminded me of Ricky Gervais' Extras. Oh, yeah? You know, having Sir Patrick Stewart say such ridiculous things and his pants constantly falling down, that's a reference to Extras if you haven't seen it. But he also, like, he's also on Family Guy as well where he says ridiculous ridiculous things. Things.

13:10Oti: But I feel like with Patrick Stewart, it's not a novelty anymore.

13:10KT: Sir, that is sir to you, mate.

13:10Oti: Yeah. But, like, we love him and all, but he's just in every single shit now. Like, I'm like, your agent needs to control you, mate. You need to take a step back and be exclusive a bit.

13:10KT: Wow. See, and again, if you heard at the start of the episode, we have tried to record this three times.

13:33KT: And the third time, Oti felt like it was appropriate to say this again.

13:33Oti: Because it's true.

13:33KT: We're, like, disintegrating. The pod gods are taking this recording away.

13:42KT: Make this very clear in the For Your Reference household. KT does not stand with Oti.

13:42Oti: All I'm saying is we love Patrick Sir Patrick Stewart, but he needs to be he he needs some exclusivity to this.

13:55KT: He can do whatever the fuck he wants. Okay. Cool. And I will allow him. Except for that weird show, but we're not talking about that. The scene? Where he plays like this old scoundrel. Yeah. Yeah. But, I love you, Sir Patrick Stewart, and you're most welcome. If you bring your friend, Sir Ian McShane, we can have a good time. Mhmm. He is a fucking zoo. Come and fight me, queen. So let's quickly go through the rest of the guest stars. Claire Danes. Yeah. Was nice to see her. Yeah.

14:23Oti: Is Homeland still going? Is that still a thing? I think it's finished by now. But she was amazing in that. Oh, was great. She carries the show.

14:23KT: Settle down.

14:23Oti: She does carry the show.

14:23KT: Settle your boner, mate.

14:23Oti: Well, the the first, like, few the first three seasons, have Damian Lewis who's amazing and brilliant and stuff. But once Damian is sort of gone,

14:44KT: then spoiling the show.

14:44Oti: I didn't say anything other than

14:44KT: Okay. Just checking.

14:50Oti: But Claire Danes, man. She she is amazing.

14:50KT: Because I I haven't watched Homeland.

14:54KT: I feel like the last time I've actually seen it was Romeo and Juliet.

14:54Oti: Oh, wow. Yeah. She was in that as well, wasn't she?

14:54KT: And her loins have been girdled. I'll tell you that much. Oh oh, for sure. In the form of Dev. We also had Busta Rhymes, Jabbawockeez, John Legend, Cedric the Entertainer. Shout

15:12KT: out. Listen to go go and watch The Last OG because Cedric the Entertainer is quite great in that, and, obviously, that's a great show as well. And

15:12Oti: It's kind of slept on, though, isn't it?

15:12KT: It is. And we'll need to cover it eventually. But, also, accolades, all deities, and all Oti sacrifices to the queen, Angela Bassett. Oh, yeah. So there are quite a lot of themes we're going to get to today. This show has won three Emmys, two of them being for

15:41KT: the parent the immigrant parent episode Mhmm. And also the Thanksgiving episode. So we're definitely going to talk about those two episodes within this episode. But yes. Oh, was great. Yeah. She she was really good in this. She is and continues to be great, but in regards to show She oozes she oozes class and

16:00Oti: She's like a fucking lioness, man. Yeah. Like, commands the screen, like, pay attention. Yeah. I am speaking. I am I am a thespian. Like, that's that's what you see when you look at when you look at her, she's just amazing. You can't get enough of Angela Bassett for sure. Definitely.

16:20KT: Wow. Just just just wow. So let's let's get into it. You know, sometimes on episodes, we will cover, like, character by character, but I think that will happen naturally as we get through this, like, these things. A lot of the comments we were making when we were watching this show, particularly in the first season, was you can tell that people of color have written this show. Yeah. So it's it's nice it's nice that, you know, all of the, you know, white sort of executives are starting to hire actors of color and different sexual orientation

16:52KT: and that sort of thing. But it gets to a point where these people need to take the reins and tell their own stories.

16:52Oti: Because it's all about perspective and all and and and the detail attention to details. You know? It's branding.

16:52KT: Frame of reference, please.

17:07Oti: I'm such I'm so bad at this. But, anyway, it's all about the nitty gritties and what separates a good show from a great show. And like the episode for Thanksgiving, we had Lena who was undertaking a lot of projects at the time. Mhmm. And she will had told the story to some of their people,

17:25Oti: executives, and they're like, yeah. You can just write it. I I don't want I don't need to be involved. I don't need to write this. I don't need to be completely involved in this. Mhmm. Just stick the reins. I've already told you every pretty much everything. And it's good that Aziz was like, no. It has to be you that does this Yep. Because this is from your point of view. There's only so much we can do with it, but you take it to that extra level. And that that's what missing generally on a lot of these shows where we watch, and it's so, like, one-sided.

17:54KT: Yeah. And but that that's exactly it because as as well as well meaning as it is, sometimes you just need the people that are telling the stories to actually have that frame of reference and have that life experience as well because, you know, you need people to be able to resonate. And if I can digress for a second, you know, if if you haven't listened to the show before, hello, Francois.

18:18KT: I am of Tongan ethnicity. My parents are Tongan, but I am a true blue Aussie. Like, I was born in Australia. That's why I've got this Bargain Bourbon accent, mate. Mate, your accent aint? That was just gayty talking. Hashtag fake KT. But, you know, like so I grew up in country where, you know, on TV at least, it was a lot of, like, white people. Right? So I was just used to watching

18:46KT: things that just had a lot of white people in it. But, you know, where I grew up in, like, Western Sydney, and if you've ever been to Western Sydney, it is a melting pot. Right? Like, there are all different sort of nationalities

18:58KT: there, but that was never really reflected in the TV. Even, like, even now in Australia, it's it's slowly becoming that, and I guess it's just with time as well. But what I really loved when I went to Kenya, you see Kenyan, like Kenyan people just in commercials, just in, like, t just because. You know what I mean? It's not a specific reason why Kenyans are on the TV. Right?

19:21KT: And obviously, that makes sense because it's your country, but, like, I didn't get to have that growing up. Yeah. Like, Lou Carpenter was not my daddy. We love a good Lou Carpenter, though. Alf Stewart was not my daddy. That's a Home and Away and a Neighbours reference

19:36KT: if you guys ever watched it. But it was I was just used to and accepting that I'm going to watch something, but it's not really going to reflect my experiences. Mhmm. You know what I mean? And it's nice to now be able to delve into a world where okay. So I'm I'm not Indian, but I can resonate with some of the themes that are being presented here. Yeah. So Because, essentially, they're all sort of a migrant perspective. It, like, covers a lot of ground regardless of what kind of background you are. You can resonate with most of these things,

20:06KT: especially if you come from that sort of point of view. Mhmm. So it just makes sense. So let's so let's stay with this because this was actually one of the themes, but it was a bit further down the list. But let's stay with it now. This is actually covered in one of the episodes where Dev and his friend Ravi go for an audition Mhmm. For a show.

20:25KT: And, you know, they they both tested well and, you know, they were both really great. And then eventually throughout the episode, you have, like, the top man, like, the top man who happens to be a white man as the executive. And you know, there's all of that rhetoric of, you know, you can only have one. Right? And it actually the reason why it became such a controversy is because he said it through the, like, through an email Email. Yeah. Internal email about curry or some flavoring or something like that.

20:54Oti: You don't curry your favour. Yeah. Yeah.

20:58KT: Yeah. And that's like, what the fuck? You know what I mean? And so so that became the catalyst for this particular episode. But a lot of the comments that were made throughout the episode, which I'm sure has been spawned off his own experiences,

21:09KT: is you can only have one of them. Because if you have two, it's going to look like it's for Indian people only, which was quite an interesting comment to make and I like you know we we hear that sort of rhetoric whether it's right whether it's wrong but what was frustrating was he's actually the head of the studio yeah so

21:28KT: yes, that might be the case. Yes, people might not be ready, but you actually are at the helm of change. You can actually, if you want to, not force people, but offer people that new sort of experience. Yeah. So things that people would hide behind, he couldn't because he could actually make that change. Yeah. Because essentially,

21:48Oti: they are the puppeteers. Yeah. And whatever they do and they start incrementing regardless of whatever push back they get, they can still sort of set the trend and make it seem as if, you know, we're trying to represent our society as it is. Uh-huh. It's all not just monotone or whatever. There's different palettes across the board. You're catering to a whole vast of people Mhmm. That needs to be represented on TV, and it's only fair to do that. And I thought it was quite interesting.

22:15KT: Maybe it's just in our viewing experience. There there is a lot of, you know, focus on representations for, like, African Americans. Not to say that, you know, that's been fully achieved, but there there is a lot of focus on that. And even just Asians broadly, like with Crazy Rich Asians, Fresh Off the Boat, you know, that sort of thing. But there there isn't a lot of talk about like Indians in particular. So I really enjoyed that particular viewpoint as well. I do take qualms with Dev's dad. Because in one of the episodes, the religion

22:52KT: focus sort of episode, he said that there's no Indian models, and I take qualms with that. See Dev Patel, please. He does everything. How dare you? How dare you, Oti? Dev Patel can do everything, and I'm I'm sad that we haven't covered anything of his work. Yeah. He's an amazing artist. We watched Hotel Mumbai recently. It was very good. But yeah. So, you know, we they're like they talk about, like, representation and that sort of thing. So just going back to that particular episode, it's funny because you have Dev and also Ravi

23:26KT: talking about how it just can't happen. You know, the executives are saying, there's no way you can have, you know, at least two Indian people in the scene and it not be funny. But what you had in that scene was Dev, Ravi, and also the Mumbai muscle having a friend esque type of exchange.

23:43KT: Yeah. So it it was it was it wasn't really subtle but it was that way of saying, hey, we can do it. We're doing it. What more can you say? Right? So it was it was quite nice to be able to explore that. So it's it's nice to see people being able to tell their own stories. And also, actually actually actually, also in that scene, they were talking about how there were white actors, you know, even recently in Social Network playing Indian

24:10KT: sort of characters. Yeah. And I think it was was it Short Circuit 2? Yeah. Short Circuit 2. And I think I think that's like the big bombshell. Like, people just didn't realize that that was a white actor. So that became kind of like the running joke of the show. So when he was, you know, talking to Ravi about it, Ravi's like, hang on a second. Is Mindy Kaling even real?

24:34Oti: Yeah. And and and it's one of the revelations that changed Ravi's point of view because before that, he was okay to do the sort of accents that he was asked to do. But after he it was revealed to him that Short Circuit 2 was actually a white guy. He was like, no, mate. I'm not taking my people back with this shit. You can have an Indian cab driver who just doesn't have the sort of deep heavy accent.

24:34KT: Yeah. But I also,

25:01KT: like I I don't know how much you wanna spend time on this, but I also feel like people that do choose to do the accent, they shouldn't really be, like, shunned on either. Like, Jian-Yang, for example, in Silicon Valley. Mhmm. He like, Jimmy O. Yang, he has an accent. Right? Yep. And it's very effective. Mhmm. So I think I think it just depends. And until, like well, we're talking about Hollywood specifically.

25:27KT: Until Hollywood gets to a point where people can just be, you know what I mean? Until people can just be, I don't think that people should get slandered for that. Like, yes, maybe you taking on that role with that accent is going to make it harder for other actors to not adopt that accent. But, ultimately, they're not the puppeteers, as you say.

25:48Oti: Oh, well, with globalization as it is, pretty much everyone would be it'll all die down. That was We'll all assimilate and move on to something new.

25:48KT: But that was that was reflected

26:01KT: and echoed in the show Yeah. As well. So let's let's go through a bit more of the themes. If you've listened to a few of our episodes, we do talk about love a lot and, you know, Oti and I share a lovely little understanding together. So I really wanna focus our time on non love romantic stuff, if that's possible.

26:22Oti: Oh, good biases on two then. Thank god.

26:28KT: Yes, please. So some of it does have to do about love, but we also have other themes that get tackled as well. So let's start off with the second episode. The best episode. In regards to TV shows, I I don't really like to watch more than I have to. Oti will watch a full season of something even if he doesn't like it. I will give a show at least two episodes. The reason why I'll give a show at least two episodes is when you have your pilot, sometimes you're funding it yourself

27:00KT: and, you know, you're you're trying to pitch it to networks and that sort of thing. So usually, once you've got a season or a couple of seasons bought, that's when you can start to flesh out what the narrative is going to be. So for me, episode two is a true representation of where the show is going to go. I didn't care for the first episode. I was like, okay. Cool. But I've kind of seen this before.

27:23KT: And the second episode just, like, swept me off my feet, and I'm like, this is a show I need to pay attention to. So and again, this did won the win the Emmy with Aziz and also Alan at the helm of this episode writing it. So essentially, this centers around Dev and Brian's character relating or not relating to their fathers Yeah. Who are immigrants to America. So this is quite an interesting sort of theme and yes, we do have shows out there like, know, Insecure, Atlanta,

28:00KT: The Mindy Project. You know, we we do have shows where you do have, you know, those people at the helm, but it doesn't necessarily tackle things outside of being young and trying to make it or outside of your friend group. What I really liked about Master of None is it actually did deconstruct the layers within your immediate sort of family. Right? And this episode does it quite well. Yeah. Personally, having immigrant parents, I related to a lot of the themes in this episode. We see with Brian's dad in particular, he didn't really talk much.

28:37KT: And obviously he went through some shit and, you know, you have that story about his pet chicken. Yeah. And how that that just must stunt your emotional growth as well because, you know, that that was his pet, that was his friend but then it became dinner. You know what I mean? So there's a lot of there's a lot of mental growth or stuntage that would happen.

28:59Oti: And it also just shows the generational contrast of of how it was when Brian's dad was growing up where he had to he had this pet chicken and he had to slaughter it for dinner. Yeah. And you have Brian whose biggest challenge at the moment of speaking to his dad was he couldn't go and grab a bag of rice because he had to go and watch a movie.

29:16KT: Yeah. And that was that was quite an interesting sort of theme to have. And then on the other hand, you have Dev where he's just not helping fix the iPad for his dad. I also thought it was nice that Aziz got his real parents.

29:35Oti: Yeah. That was cool. I I really I knew that they were not like, it's not distracting at all. Mhmm. It's just that I didn't think they were actors per se. I was like, okay. There's there has to be something else in here. Right? Yeah. And until you told me, I was like, yes. That makes perfect sense. And it was fun when Aziz kept trying to get his dad to say stuff about people shoving things up their butt. Like, wouldn't you love to hear your dad say that? I would love to get my dad to say that shit.

29:59KT: Ridiculous. Cover off. Yeah. Just ridiculous sort of things. So it was it was nice to have his parents there. And, apparently, they they just couldn't find anyone and it worked out for the best. I think it did. I really think it did. Yeah. So you have Dev and you have his dad and, you know, he's not fixing the iPad and I really I really appreciate the show just generally because,

30:24KT: you know, a lot of the times you will have shows, you know, reflect your reality. Yeah. Right? But sometimes that can become very preachy and there's also a perfect resolution and it's all just tied up into a a nice little bow. Right? What I really appreciated about this show, it it reflected our reality, some of our realities in regards to how we treat or don't treat our parents.

30:49KT: But it it also doesn't have a resolution to it. And it's it's it's like, okay. But then you have Dev going back to being an idiot. You know what I mean? And that's just life, you know? You know, in some cases, the you might need to call your mother more or, you know, check-in with your dad more, but for whatever reason, whether it's a dramatic reason or just the fact that you wanna stay in and watch Netflix,

31:13KT: like, we just don't. Yeah. So it was nice to explore that without being preached to. I really appreciate that as well. I also like the way that they chose to portray it. So, you know, they they first introduce, it's the modern, you know, you have Dev, you have Brian. And then as soon as they reject getting the bag of rice or getting the iPad, it goes back in time. So we talked a bit about Brian's dad, but going back to Dev's dad, you know, it's funny because even growing up, you know, in my household,

31:42KT: like, you were just there to serve as a function of the household. Me, kids are born to be seen, not heard. Yeah. And if you were being if you were being seen, you were either, like, cooking or cleaning. Yeah. You're being useful in some sort of way. You know, it was it was never about how you feel or what your motivations are or how

31:42Oti: What are feelings?

31:42KT: Yeah. Exactly. Not even the song. But yeah. So you have, know, even in our generation like we had that sort of semblances

32:13KT: as well and I'm sure Dev and Brian also had that too but you know going back to Dev's dad you have him there but you also see that he does enjoy his little hobbies. Like, you even see him with that abacus, and the bully just, like, destroys it. Oh, yeah. That was painful to watch. That was really sad because he's minding his business. Bullies are dicks. Bullies are fucking dicks.

32:37Oti: Like, abacuses are really interesting. Did you guys use abacuses growing up as kids?

32:37KT: You're talking about, like, the thing we saw in the TV show?

32:37Oti: Yeah.

32:37KT: Where how old are you?

32:37Oti: No. Like, what did you how did you learn counting and whatever math growing up as a kid? Not even like

32:37KT: Our fingers, little duckies.

32:37Oti: Oh my god. What? Really?

32:59KT: And we also had calculators.

33:02Oti: Get out of town. You did not use calculators that young.

33:02KT: How do you learn how to spell boobies? But are you are you are you taking the piss? Like Are you for real?

33:13KT: Like an abacus?

33:13Oti: Yeah. Yeah.

33:13KT: The thing with the beads on it?

33:13Oti: Yeah. When you when you start school, you're given an abacus and it teaches you counting. It teaches you visualizing numbers and do being able to calculate things with your fucking mind.

33:13KT: You know what else does that? A calculator.

33:13Oti: No. It doesn't. A calculator is just beep beep beep, press button, beep beep equals,

33:32Oti: bam, answer. What? It doesn't help in rational thinking and what you do.

33:32KT: When did you grow up? Like

33:32Oti: What do you mean when did have sex?

33:32KT: Sixty years ago?

33:32Oti: Abacus is fucking awesome.

33:42KT: Yeah. But, like, were you in school in, like, the nineties or what?

33:46Oti: Mate, You are not serious.

33:51KT: No. Seriously. When when were you in schooling to have an abacus?

33:55Oti: It's a thing even now. It's not. It really It's a great tool to learn math. Parents out there who are listening to this, if your kids are using abacuses right now, get them one. It will teach them how to visualize numbers and be able to do the calculations in their minds, mate. Oh my If you didn't think you'd get proper

34:15KT: You know what? You know what? We we talk about this show, and when we were watching the show, we're like, oh my god. I can relate to that. Oh my god. Yes. I've had that experience. I'm now starting to realize that I was experiencing what the kids were experiencing, and apparently, you were relating to the daddies. I thought we were relating to the kids, but there you go.

34:36Oti: Come on now. You cannot tell me use calculators counting war. Learning the learning the multiple table. Like, use calculators for that shit. And abacus teaches you all this without having to rely on tools. Like, it's just you and your mind.

34:36KT: Friends and lovers.

34:36Oti: Like, maths, mate.

34:36KT: Well, very slow maths compared to a calculator.

34:36Oti: Compared to a calculator? Oh my god. I can't believe you use calculators. We use calculators

35:04Oti: only when we started learning calculus in secondary school.

35:04KT: You're lucky I don't know how to use a soundboard because I'll be muting you right now. Hello, friends and lovers.

35:04Oti: Like, abacus was just using kindergarten and and at the start of primary school. That was the first two years and then taken away. But we just used our minds then and then calculators when we started learning calculus. Okay.

35:25KT: Are you done, sir? We need Oh, take my this god. Cool. Good for you, sir. Hello, friends and lovers, which I've been trying to say for five minutes now. Thank you for tuning in. You never know what tasty morsels or tasty beads you're going to get, especially from Oti. Feel free to tweet us if, you know, abacuses were still used when you had electricity.

35:47KT: Don't worry. It'd be good to know. And this is also a very momentous occasion because you have been invited to the coronation of Oti and I am crowning him as Abacus Daddy. Because you can count on him for a good time. Wow. Yeah. We need to we need to put this to the side. Maybe it will be like an additional

36:11KT: recording that we do another day, but there is so much to you, sir, and not even an abacus can resolve that.

36:11Oti: Mate, there's a problem in in in Western education if you're not teaching your kids to rely on the fucking minds to do

36:11KT: Did you like did you like invest in all of these abacuses and now you're trying to like cut them off? Like, you just you're like, oh, this is this is, like, this is a trend that's gonna last forever. Look out for our merch, abacus daddy 2020.

36:43KT: Are you good, sir?

36:43Oti: Yeah. I'm alright.

36:43KT: Are you done relating to all the daddies? Mhmm. You are the daddies of all, my love. Wow. But, yeah, it was it was interesting. And just, like, just to go back to our frame of reference, I actually didn't know a lot about my dad growing up. Not in not for me, but for my parents, they had to address their parents, like my grandparents, as their names. Like, they couldn't even call them mom or dad. So there was that level of formality.

37:12KT: And, you know, that whole notion of your parents being your friends, like, I don't understand that. Like, that makes no sense. Like, hey. Tell me about your sexual endeavors. Like, that's not a thing, at least in my culture. Like, you just don't do that. So it wasn't until I, like, started to get older, like, through my aunties and, you know, that sort of thing that I learned a bit more about my dad, but never through my dad specifically.

37:38KT: Because there's that unspoken struggle that you go through. Yeah. You know? And you just accept it, and that's what it is.

37:47Oti: Yeah. True. And it sort of just made me feel really bad watching this episode and thinking, what the fuck have I done? I'm I'm I'm the brand in them in this. I've not really asked my parents about, like, how it was for them growing up, you know, and it's such a, like, a missed opportunity and I feel like I've missed a step in this. Yeah.

37:47KT: You need to thank them for your abacus.

38:10KT: Is that really the hill you wanna die on?

38:11Oti: I will die on that hill any day, every day.

38:18KT: I just don't know what to do with you sometimes, I tell you. So let's let's go into another theme just quickly. They kind of they kind of melt into one, but they're two different themes. There's societal expectations and then there's also feeling regret possibly because you were following societal expectations. So namely through getting married, having kids and also having a successful career. So we can kind of meld into all three of them because that will probably happen anyway while we're talking but the getting married happens at the end of season

38:56KT: one where they attend the wedding and Dev and Rachel start to, you know, it happens like you know around your birthday you start to think about what you have and have achieved. Same thing with weddings. You you think, you know, the relationship that you're in, is it one that's going to last? Is it the one that you're going to have forever where you grow old and you queef on each other? That's my only reference is South Park. That's what I imagine old people doing. And then there's having kids, which is in the pilot

39:28KT: Yeah. Of this series. You know, you see Dev enjoying his time with kids but not realizing how much of responsibility they they are. Are. And then there's also the career which is kind of discussed through Rachel. So we can go into more detail about that. So which one would you like to go through first?

39:28Oti: Oh, definitely Dev's expectation on marriage and life and how it was because when he attended that wedding with Rachel, he really questioned the foundation

39:53Oti: of their relationship. And to the extent where he thought that everyone is a 100%, specifically the bride and groom, they're a 100% committed.

40:04KT: It's their fucking wedding day. If you're not a 100 on your wedding day, then you've got a problem.

40:07Oti: That's the only day you're a 100. You know? I think this is where we start seeing, like, Dev pull the string in his ultimate destruction in his in his relationship where he gets he doesn't understand how they're a 100, and he's not a 100 with Rachel.

40:27KT: But I think that's fine. He also makes a comment which I actually agree with where he says, you know, when you get to an age that people expect you to get married, do you get married because you actually wanna get married? Or is it, I'm in a relationship, let's might as well do it. You know what I mean?

40:46Oti: Oh, jugger edge. Who would have thought? But, yeah, like, in this day and age, I'd feel like the pressures are suddenly not as prevalent as it was back back in the day. Mhmm. Right now, if you want a kid, you can go and adopt a kid. Like, fucking hell, mate. You don't need to have someone stick it up you to get a child.

40:46KT: But can we? Just to practice?

40:46Oti: Like,

41:12Oti: there's so many kids out there struggling that you can go and help and it doesn't need to come off from your loins, you know. Mhmm. You know? And and and it's one of those questions that Dev is trying to raise in this that makes you think that, you know, us as a society, we need to be able to set these things better. Like, there shouldn't be such expectations that if you're not if you're 30 and you're not married and have two kids, you you've not you've failed.

41:30KT: But fun fact

41:30Oti: Because you can define your own success.

41:30KT: So so fun so this isn't the fun fact, but, you know, in Australia, we have what's called de facto. So you don't have to be married to have the same rights as a married couple. But the fun fact is for Kenya, what's what's the law there, sir? If you stay with if you stay with someone

41:55Oti: in your house of opposite sex because Kenya is Bakwa that way, for six or more months, you're legally married. They can go they can go and claim half your shit if you decide to step out. Yeah. So I think I think we're married, like, 12 times over now. Yeah. It's just because people who are trying to people who are living with each other, and twelve years out the line down the line, someone walks out, and then the lady is like, what

42:23Oti: do I do now? We didn't really get married. I'm left stranded raising kids. So the law was like, okay. We'll have this law in there. If you wanna trigger it, it's up to you.

42:23KT: But I think that's good because you have if you have guys that are deliberately not getting married so they can espouse,

42:39KT: if you pardon the word Yeah. Their responsibilities, then it's like, no. Piss off. You're still responsible for all of this sort of shit. Again, we're so sorry for this late episode. And because we love you guys so much, if you continue to listen to this episode, I'm not even gonna share that fact. So only if you listen to the episode, you will know of that fun little Kenyan law, the fact that we're married how many times over. But,

43:08KT: you know, we've got so much to cover today, but, you know, this this sort of show really does evoke, you know, reflection. And I like that we're talking a lot about our personal experiences as well because you don't get that in a lot of our other episodes. But what I wanted to bring up is, like, I'm not I'm not firing shots, and I know I like to fire shots at people all the time figuratively. Don't come for me. There are barely any guns in Australia.

43:34Oti: Mhmm.

43:35KT: But I don't get how people are like, oh, I'm so I'm so progressive and I'm so new age, but I'm still gonna get married. And it's like, well, if you if if you say that you don't need this and you don't need that to have a fruitful life, why are you getting married then? Like and if you're not even religious, why are you getting married? It's weird because as much as people think that they are progressive,

43:57KT: they still do the shit that they feel like they need to be doing. Yeah. Yeah. And it's I I just just I just find it interesting. Not to say I'm a celestial being. Again, I know we're all going to hell and robot Jesus is going to be in heaven by himself. But it's just interesting how people are like, yeah. I don't need I don't need all of this archaic, old, traditional sort of values, but then people get married anyway. You're with the person you love, but it's not real

44:26KT: until you get married. Until they signed up paper. Yeah. And it's I don't know. And then, you know, like, people people would even be to ask, like, oh, how's your husband or whatever? And I'm just like like, I don't I don't bother correcting because I don't wanna be that person being like, we're not married. We're like, I don't wanna be that dickhead. Right? But it's it's just interesting that, you know, and even

44:49KT: just just getting a little bit more personal, like, with my siblings. Right? We like, Oti and I have been together for longer than the rest of my siblings have, and they're all older than us. Right? But it's funny how they think they know more about life because they're married even though we've been together

45:07KT: longer. And obviously, I feel a way about it. Like, it pisses me the fuck off. Like, who are you to try and give me advice just because you got married? Mhmm. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. Like, I think life experiences are really what brings you together as opposed to just following traditional sort of pursuits just because. For sure. For sure. So that's so that's an interesting sort of theme to get to. Let's talk about having a successful career.

45:35KT: So this is culminated I think the best example in this series is with Rachel and how she has to go to, I think it's Chicago Yeah. Chicago. For six months. And, you know, when she first presents it, it's it's an exciting opportunity. She gets to work with bands that she's never worked with before. And bands she's interested in as well. Yeah. Yeah. And it's something that she's really excited to do, and that wasn't met with any sort of support.

46:00Oti: Not at all. Not one iota. And it's quite ridiculous because I think that Dev as an an a commercial actor, he'd be able to do this shit anywhere. Know, it took me fucking New York to do commercials.

46:11KT: And he said some bullshit about, like, she's bad at time management. Really, bitch? Yeah.

46:18Oti: Time manage she's bad at time management because she has to go to Chicago for six months to do a job to work with people that she actually wants to work with.

46:27KT: And it's like, whether you're in a relationship or not, being vulnerable with someone else is not easy. Like, Dev ain't shitting this. Like, seriously, he's such a flawed protagonist. I don't think anyone's cheering for him, to be perfectly honest. He's such a flawed protagonist in such a in this conversation.

46:44Oti: And and the fact that you know what annoyed me most? Rachel is trying to have this meaningful deep conversation with Dev. Very vulnerable. Yeah. And being super vulnerable, and Dev is all jokey jokey Yeah. With his fucking annoying voice. Yep. And they're like, piss right off. Mate,

47:00Oti: you're lucky enough to have this girl in your life. Better pay some attention to her. You could you could work it out. Go to Chicago every other weekend. Do something. Like, six months is nothing in the grand scheme of things Also if this is a person you want to be with.

47:16KT: Also, in saying this, we and again, if you've listened to our podcast before, we've done long distance for a good, like, half a decade. Like, we've done long distance for a long time. So Oti does not have any sympathy for people

47:16Oti: Nada. Nada.

47:16KT: If you're if you're technically still experiencing daytime together, he doesn't have sympathy for people that want to.

47:16Oti: Nayota, mate. Like, if if

47:39Oti: if you had to go to from New York to Chicago to just see the person that you love, fucking hell. I'd do that every single day if it meant commuting for fucking war.

47:39KT: But pain is like yeah. On a general note, pain is still pain. And if people go through long distance at at a

47:39Oti: Pain is in pain until you put it in conscious to other people who are suffering in the fucking world, mate. And this is where people need to fucking travel. People need to experience different cultures, different like,

48:03Oti: expand your mind to the world around you so that you're not cocooned in your own little world thinking that the biggest misery in your life is going from New York to Chicago.

48:13KT: Thank you, sir. We just finished Wu-Tang: An American Saga. So I think Oti is channeling some Ol' Dirty Bastard right now. ODB for life. Rest in peace. Wow. If I'm not DMXing, Oti is all dirty bastarding. Wow. Again, thank you. Hopefully, you're enjoying this episode that will hopefully be released and not disintegrate into the world. But it's interesting. And, you know, what we see in that scene is it started off as her getting excited at all of these opportunities,

48:48KT: but we start to see that actually she's not looking forward to it either. She was just trying to hype herself up. Yeah. And the fact that he was being such a bitch about it, she what she actually revealed was, look, I'm 30 years old. I'm not where I wanna be professionally in my life. I actually don't have a choice. Yeah. And he still didn't take that seriously. Like, life is fun and you can start a podcast and you can have laughs, but if you can't have someone by your side through that shit, then it's what's the point?

49:17Oti: Someone that you spent a year with. Yeah.

49:22KT: Someone who's supposed to know you. Actually, let's talk about this. He hid her from the family. They were actually living together, and he never told. Man, regardless of what you think of your parents and how they would take it, you need to say this shit. Because it's you as a person. Yeah. It's you as a person.

49:38Oti: You're not hiding anything. You're exposing yourself regardless of how they take it. You don't really you shouldn't care.

49:44KT: Yeah. And well, I'm not gonna spoil this, but if you've if you've watched The Big Sick with Kumail Nanjiani, they kind of explore that as well about, you know, having that cultural I think in both cases, their parents Muslim. Yeah. And just for the sake of ease, just hiding their other halves from their parents. And I think this is a good transition into the Thanksgiving episode It is. As well. So just focusing on Dev and Rachel for a second.

50:16KT: The fact that he didn't think it was important and he didn't consider how she might feel about the family not even knowing about her, and he just completely disregarded that just so he could feel comfortable so he didn't have to go through that discussion. It wasn't about the parents' feelings. It was about him. Him avoiding confrontation. Him avoiding being uncomfortable.

50:36Oti: Yeah. So all these excuses and whatnot, mate, like, watching you know, watching it, you're like, I felt the moment where I felt sorry for Dev in his pursuit for finding love and all. Something

51:02KT: No. No. No. No. No. No. It kinda doesn't focus on him. It's more about the themes that are presented in the show. Yeah. And it is bolstered in some great secondary characters, and I don't think we're gonna get time to talk about it. So before we talk about Thanksgiving, I wanna talk about how much I love Arnie.

51:32Oti: Arnie is amazing. Cutie.

51:35KT: Oh, he's so fucking great. And just as, like, a fun sort of story, I because I think you wanna talk about the wedding in Italy. Just a fun sort of story. Like, I love how they got into Sherlock. Yeah. And they were all sitting around watching it. And, you know, the Britons make delicious series, but they're they're always, like, two or three episodes a season. Right? So they were quite far into the series. You know, they've spent hours watching Sherlock, and then you have Arnie out of nowhere saying,

52:05KT: I actually don't understand anything that they're saying. How? Oh, I love him so much. How the fuck can you watch something and not understand what's going on? It's just to hear the Brits say stuff. Yeah. And then Denise, Lena Waithe's character, says something to the effect of, I can literally just sit and watch Benedict Cumberbatch doing nothing for hours. Because he just he is he embodies a thespian. He is on that higher echelon.

52:34Oti: He's in my trophy case of stans. Yeah. For sure. And and just to bring this up, because I think most of us have friends that we talk about everything but not the deep shit. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. And I think Dev and Arnie sort of had that until they didn't. Like, those up until Arnie had to go to his ex's wedding. Yeah. It was all though, talked about pretty much everything lied. Oh, cutie. Oh,

53:01Oti: I didn't get a date. How do I get a date? How do I get to get laid? Are you going to be my wingman? All sort of low surface bullshit. Yeah. But their deeper feelings in Dev struggling without Rachel, he didn't say that to Arnie. In Arnie struggling to go to this wedding because he actually felt that he lost the love of his life Uh-huh. They didn't they weren't able to talk about it. Yeah. And I feel like a lot of dude relationships

53:29Oti: is like that. Yeah. Like, you you can talk about most of the things, but the things that really matter, the things that You just need to keep it inside. You just need to keep it inside. Just hold it in. You know? That's that's for you to struggle with alone. Yeah. And I'm glad that they broke through that and exposed that in in this show to show that, you know, we're all fucking vulnerable human beings.

53:29KT: But what was stupid about that is so they had a really cute understanding

53:53KT: in Italy, and Dev was there when, you know, Arnie needed someone. Right? And he's like, come on now. Like, she's she's gonna get married. Like, just let it happen. Even though her husband looks exactly like Arnie, like a mini Arnie. Yeah. Right? Yeah. That's some painful shit. That was such a beautiful moment, but it was overshadowed by the fact that Dev didn't learn a fucking thing. And he was gallivanting around with Francesca Yeah. Not learning those lessons. You know what I mean? Again, you can have fallible protagonist and it not all fall apart, but that was very frustrating.

54:23Oti: It was. It really was. And the fact that Francesca and Dev and just to bring it to the theme of love and all and Dev's pursuit of Francesca, even though Francesca is has has been with a partner for quite some time. Yep. And Dev knew this. Francesca, of course, knew this. And even though Francesca was like, I'm not leading you on, for fuck, she knew what she was getting out of this. She knew super well what she was doing.

54:55KT: But also, at the same time because, you know, we have a podcast. I love having a good yarn, as we say in Australia, or I love having banter. You know? I'm the king and queen of Bansfield because it's 2019. I'll claim both. I don't understand why someone of the opposite sex or same sex, if that's your sexual orientation, like, why can't you just have a good conversation with someone and not fall in love with them? I think it's more to do just with human nature.

55:22KT: But I like having a fun chat, know, just giggling and gaggling around like why why can't you just have that without falling for each other or wanting to stick everything in all the places?

55:34Oti: Yeah. Maybe it's to do with human nature and just being, like, curious as to whether or not you'll walk that way romantically. I don't know. It was just more to do with how so far Dev really pursued this deeply. Knew he He he knew what it was like. Knew what he was doing and what he might not get in this. But then to play victim Yeah. It all was like, mate,

55:58Oti: why I didn't care for season You can't come out you can't come out as feeling all sad and shit, knowing for what what you've been doing. She's not gonna be leaving this fiance of hers for what? Ten or so years just so you can have a a romantic night for whatever reason and live happily ever after. When she has she has, like, baggage and roots in Italy, her family, her store,

56:22Oti: she has all these things she has think about. To feel good in life. She just wanted to feel good. It's an escapism sort of thing, you know, and Dev's there to play along. Go and play the fucking Sims then. Don't play people. But Dev's willing Dev's willing. If you know you you you you're chasing someone who's unattainable and you're still keeping at it, thinking that you gotta get them, if it doesn't happen, you can't go mopping around.

56:45KT: Well, that's advice for you. Leave Halle Berry alone.

56:45Oti: Well, soon enough, mate.

56:45KT: She's not interested, fan.

56:51Oti: That's alright, blood.

56:56KT: Let's focus on the Thanksgiving episode. Let's give it some sort of love. Again, like you said, it's a truly personal sort of story and we focus on Denise's character. The Denise experience if you're nasty. And again, it it it uses the ages to take us through her experiences and what she went through. I think quite a pivotal pivotal scene that they had in that episode was at the diner. Yeah. So I think Denise was at, like, college age and,

57:27KT: you know, Angela Bassett was talking about you better not get pregnant and she's like, I won't. But it kind of just left it like that. She's like, do you know why I won't? It's because I don't like gas. So it was kind of like a a I guess if you wanna call it like a natural casual way to say it. It was also in a very public place. So, obviously, you know, there's that filter that you need to regulate yourself when you're in public. But I really enjoyed

57:55KT: Angela Bassett's performance. I expect nothing nothing else. Even that there was a movie Jumping the Broom and it was probably like a really I don't wanna be rude, but it it wasn't like a a rated sort of movie. Right? But I remember Angela Bassett was in it and that's four chef kisses with my toes if you're nasty. But she everything she's in just it's brilliant and her in that scene, you know,

58:23KT: she loves her daughter but you also need to remember the time and the time that she grew up as well. A time when society's perceptions of how your home is is more important than who you are as a person. So if there's anything that might stick out or anything that people could potentially focus on, you need to relinquish that. Yeah. And just add the skin color there for added complexities and all that. Yeah. And it was it was really it was such a masterful masterful performance

58:55KT: that Angela delivered in that diner scene and any actress of lesser Cree would have butchered it. Yeah.

58:55Oti: It created such a raw atmosphere

59:05Oti: and I felt vulnerable. I felt sad. I felt scared of what's going to transpire because I'd expect

59:13Oti: if I was to come out to my parents, that would be the fucking hardest thing I'd ever have to do. Because you've it's it's not just telling your parents who you are as a person. It's all of that cultural shit. Exactly. As well. Exactly. There's there's, like, a historical baggage coming along with it. There are a lot of barriers in the way. And and, yes, and and we have Angela saying that, you know, admitting that, you know, okay. Fine. You're a lesbian. You know? Mhmm. But I'm just scared

59:41Oti: of how society would treat you because you're already dealing with so much shit. Adding lesbian into the bag doesn't make it easier. It it makes that hard. And for any parent, they want their kids to have an easier life than they are. And that's why you have migrant parents going going through shit, trying to get their parents get trying to get their families across

59:59Oti: to better land and better, you know, futures and fortunes just so that they could they could have better lives for their kids even if it's not not so for them. You have Lena doing all this, and this is all sort of true base of our experiences. Mhmm. And to have a parent that's that didn't freak out and didn't cause a scene because my parents wouldn't care what the fuck I was at that moment because they'll just throw a fucking tantrum regardless of where they are.

60:24Oti: But wow, you know, kudos to Angela for dealing with it the way she did.

60:24KT: Yeah. And like an interesting

60:31KT: theme in that episode is, yes Denise's character was coming out to her mom but also at the same time her mom is allowed to have a response and I I really appreciated that as well like you know the first time she brought a girl around for Thanksgiving, you know, Denise, whether she knew it or not, was being very touchy feely. Like, she was touching her back. They were about to kiss,

60:57KT: you know, and all that sort of stuff. And, you know, I'm not sure how you guys took it when you were watching the show, but, you know, when it when it comes to Oti and I, you know, we touch each other all the time. We might be touching each other now. You don't know. But when it comes to family or even just, like, being around friends, like, we don't feel the need to

61:19KT: check-in with each other, whether it's, like, emotionally or physically or whatever. So when I was watching that scene and Denise was, like, touching her back and, like, you know, trying to kiss her, I was like, and I actually agreed with Angela Bassett's character where she said, you know, you you are who you are and I've accepted that, but you need to respect you need to respect the lying meat. There's a lying. Well, you're the one that was trying to feed your meat to me in front of your mom.

61:47Oti: I had like five wine glasses of wine there so it is what it is.

61:50KT: If you wanna taste you wanna taste Oti's meat, just give him five glasses of wine. That's the formula. And then you can also be married to him, we can have a good old time. But it was it was interesting because it's not just I'm telling you who I am and you can't say shit about me. You know what I mean? Like, it was a give and take in that sort of dynamic. So I I appreciated that as well. So I really feel like that was masterfully crafted in regards to,

62:21KT: you know, the the way you deal with that because, you know, there's who you are as a person, but then there's also respecting the household, but that doesn't mean you hide who you are.

62:21Oti: No. No. It doesn't. Because we're brought up with certain

62:35Oti: cultural nuances that you can't or can't do, you know. The the things I will never do in front of my parents is here. Yeah. You know, that's just a line. And regardless of whether you take it on or as it being weird or, you know, old or outdated. It's just it is what it is, and you take it with a you know, you take it as it is, and you just you accept it. It's it's something I won't do in front of them. I won't

63:01Oti: touch you like that. Won't kiss you in front of them. And it might sound weird to other people, but

63:07KT: Unless you've had a few wines. Yeah. It's just yeah. And I I'm going to deviate for a second. Please tweet us because I'm genuinely curious, especially when we watch stuff as well. If you've lived with your parents for a period of time with your other half or if you've just been on holidays where your parents are under the same roof, like, the fuck do people have sex when their parents are, like, two doors down? I actually don't understand it, so please tweet us. Like, I actually don't get it. Like, the last time

63:42KT: we went and we, you know, we were staying at your place because we had to travel. Your mom deliberately put us in separate rooms. Yeah. I was just like, oh weird. Right? Yeah. And you kept trying to creep into the window and I'm like, dude. But it's like and I was fine with that. Like, I wasn't insulted by it at all.

64:05KT: But, yeah, I just don't get it. You know how sometimes, like, people are living with their parents for, like, whatever reason, whether they're saving or, you know, that sort of thing. I don't understand how people have sex in the same household of where their parents are. So please tweet us for many things, but in regards to your sexual experiences because apparently that's what I wanna know about. Uh-huh. I do wanna focus on one more theme. Is there in regards to women and also feeling safe? Is there anything else you wanna talk about?

64:31Oti: No.

64:31KT: Okay. Perfect. So let's get into it. Again, if you're a bit dicey about Aziz and that sort of thing, then feel free to just skip ahead for a little bit. But they did address, you know, women and also feeling safe. So I wanted to talk a bit about that. Yep. You know, and it sometimes it's not a super dramatic thing as well. And that's how sad it is. Like, men can be creepy in casual ways and you're just like, what like, before you have time to react,

65:01KT: they're gone or the moment's gone. You know what I mean? I have a couple of experiences I just wanna share. It's not any again, it's not anything too dark or too dramatic. It's more just like, light relative. It's it's like light oh, relativity of light. Science. That's a thing. Fuck off.

65:22Oti: Stop trying to feed me your meat. Mate, no wonder abacus wasn't introduced to your schoolmate.

65:30KT: I really love this episode. Okay. So so the the first one I'm going to give you an example of is On a Night Out with the gals. I would say Sex and the City, but I haven't watched it, so I don't know if this is accurate. You know, but I went out with a few girlfriends. We went out dancing. We had a good time. And then by the end of the night, everyone was trying to figure out how to get home. So, you know, a couple of them were going to get on the train.

65:57KT: Yeah. So I just I I made sure that my friend that was, you know, worse for wear was in an Uber and she went home. But before we were figuring out how we were going to get home, there was a fella and he made a beeline straight towards me and he said that, you know, he he couldn't feel comfortable for the rest of the night, early morning, mind you, without saying how beautiful I looked. But like like, okay. Let let let let's like let's let's let's like, you know, unpack this.

66:35Oti: What what do you achieve from saying something like that? I don't know. You'd be like, oh, thank you. I've been waiting for someone to tell me I'm beautiful. Take me.

66:35KT: No. I actually

66:46KT: I actually said fuck you and the clique you claim. Because when I'm on a night out, I just wanna have fun. Right? And again, I I told him to piss off more than that, if you heard what I said twenty seconds ago. And then all of my friends were like, woah.

67:04KT: Woah. Hey, KT. Like, why are you doing that to him? And blah blah blah. And I'm just like, if he's allowed to come up and say shit to me, why can't I say shit to him? You know what I mean? So it was an interesting it was an interesting sort of thing because apparently I was the wrong one in that scenario so I don't know I just find that bewildering so if any of you ladies out there have any sort of like

67:28KT: comments in regards to that story please let me know but it's like you know, I had such a good night and then you have some creeper coming out of the shadows just to say that shit, really? Mhmm. Like, it wasn't necessary. The other story I will mention is scenarios where you actually can't get out of the situation, like, you're just, like, stuck there. So, you know,

67:51KT: if you've if you've followed us on Twitter and that sort of thing, I am a brown woman. I am a pasty brown woman. I I need more sun in my life apparently. So I was at a doctor's appointment. So, you know, fully professional, know, he's a doctor and, you know, I was I was getting the, like, the test of, like, what my is it vitamin d? Yep You would think I get enough from roti but apparently not but in regards to my vitamin D deficiencies the doctor was saying

68:23KT: you know I should get some more sunlight sunlight particularly in the early morning. Those are the best sort of rays if you're trying to get some more vitamin d. Mhmm. However, that is not the way he said it. Mhmm. He said, you should wear as least clothing as possible and go outside with as least clothing as possible and let the sun come on your skin. Just joking.

68:23Oti: Why do I feel like you were the creeper and the doctor in this scenario? Like Gene from Arrested Development, you just had disguises.

69:02KT: But it's like you know what I mean? Like, you know, like, if you're on for a night out, like, obviously, you don't wanna be pestered by fellas. Right? But you kind of like, it kinda makes sense. The fact that I was just there trying to learn about my lack of vitamin d, to have that said to me, like, how uncomfortable is that? Like, I don't think a doctor's ever told you, got milk?

69:29KT: You know what I mean? Like, I I I don't know. There are some experiences as a woman that I don't think you would get as a man.

69:29Oti: Did he say it in a seedy way?

69:29KT: He said wear as little clothes as possible, go outside, and let the sun come on me. How how how much more clarification do you want, dude?

69:29Oti: Yeah. I guess so.

69:29KT: You know what I mean? And it's like, okay. It it it's not the most damaging of sexual harassment, but it's also not most welcome.

69:59KT: You know what I mean? And it's just it's just so easy for men to just be gross.

70:03Oti: Yeah. And just to bring this back to our Master of None, we have Condola Rashad walking back from a club and going home and she

70:03KT: You just know, you don't know anyone's names.

70:03Oti: I know Condola Rashad. She's in fucking Billions. She's amazing.

70:18KT: Who is she? Oh, in that episode. Yeah. That's because she's pretty. That's why you remember her name.

70:18Oti: No. Because she's in Billions.

70:18KT: Sorry. I'm I'm I'm thinking about Paul Giamatti in a way I don't wanna think about Paul Giamatti.

70:18Oti: Oh, you're missing some good touch upon on Paul Giamatti, mate.

70:18KT: No. You can keep that.

70:37Oti: But, yeah, she gets followed from the club and get harassed by a guy who follows up up to her home. And I think this is one of the sort of things I don't know if they do in Western Worlds because growing up, we were taught on sort of, like, self awareness keys, especially with the streets and stuff.

70:37KT: Stranger danger.

70:37Oti: No. Not not necessarily stranger danger. Like, how to act when someone approaches you or how you act on the street and stuff like that. Mhmm. When you're walking, the sort of

71:05Oti: emotions you'd be you should be exuding. Mhmm. So if someone approaches you or say something, you need to make them feel like they're still human beings. We used to have this, like, mock conversations and shit, and it'll just you know, it's in theory, it makes sense, but when you're out once you're out there, especially if you're, you know, because I can speak as a man, how that works for me even now. But it just it was just to give you the extra layer of security that in case something does happen,

71:33Oti: at least you're aware of the things you need to do, especially if you're walking alone at night. So okay. Cool. I can walk confidently, but if I'm a woman and there's a there's a man that's out on the prowl, that won't really change much. Yeah. Yeah. It wouldn't change. The be all and end all essentially. It's not. It's not. But one of the things is usually just don't go back home, you know. Don't lead them to your house and

71:57Oti: that's one of the things that you get told every single time, You know? And the worst thing you could do is go back home because then they'll know. Even if they don't come in, then it could come in later during the week or something like that.

72:07KT: Yeah. So, you know, the and it's sad that you have to train your children or your friends or even adults. You have to train adults on how to be safe.

72:17Oti: Yeah. Because the world is a crappy place. But it it can also be a great place. Yeah. But with the way things are, it's more crappy than it is because you have people struggling out there.

72:28KT: Yeah. Know. I mental shit without being able to But that's why we have, like, escapism. We have movies. We have TV shows. Yeah. Even though we watch Mindhunter just to get away from the world. I love using that because it's it's true. And can we just not forget that we have a daddy Tench?

72:49Oti: Man, that tension is strong.

72:50KT: Yeah. Holt McCallany. He's great. But yeah. So let's let's round it off and, you know, we were talking about a serious topic and I started talking about daddies again. Take a sip if you're having a FYR drinking game. But let's let's finish it off, mister. Yeah. In a segment we call For Your Reference.

73:12Oti: Oh, I will reference Insecure just because

73:15KT: How actually, thank you

73:19Oti: but Issa is my lady love garden.

73:19KT: She is your lady love garden, but she is an amazing writer, director, producer, and she does all that really well in Insecure. And she also supports other creatives. And she does support other creatives.

73:35KT: And they're filming Insecure, so hopefully that will come back soon. If you've watched Insecure, we actually have an episode on it if you wanna have a listen.

73:40Oti: Yeah. Like, it just gives you a different point of reference and it's beautifully executed. It's something that you've not really seen before.

73:51KT: Okay. So I have two references, don't you reckon? The first one is The Big Sick with Kumail Nanjiani. Nice. That is also based on his actual life with his wife. They also had a podcast as well for a short amount of time. So also check that out. How dare I mention bigger podcasts, but there you go. I'm a supportive person. But that also, you know, delves into similar sort of themes of race and, you know, parents sort of perception and cultural sort of expectations as well. And the second reference that I have is Extras

74:30KT: because I love Sir Patrick Stewart. And if all of the Sir Pat Stewart fans wanna come and take Oti away, you are most welcome. Thank you so much for listening, guys. Happy holidays, but most specifically, Merry Christmas tidings to everyone. Thank you so much for listening. Again, we appreciate your patience on this episode. I'm going to give you a reference hack just because you've listened this far. If you are going out or you just don't wanna be stanky,

75:04KT: you can spray your cologne or your perfume on some cotton tips and put it in a, ziplock bag and put it in your bag so you can refresh yourself through the day. Oh, wow. Look at that. Yep. I'm becoming a beauty guru. Come and stop me, world. Again, thank you so much for listening. This is our fortieth episode, by the way. I forgot to mention it, I guess, because we've been burnt twice before. So thank you so much for listening to this episode. We will have some exciting Christmas stuff coming up soon. And

75:37KT: but that's pretty much it. If you want to see where we are in between episodes on Twitter and Instagram, we are for your pod. You can write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. And love who you love unashamedly, guys. For sure. We will see you next week. See you. Bye.