Kevin Can F**k Himself – Patty Crime

Full transcript of Kevin Can F**k Himself – Patty Crime.

0:00KT: Howdy howdy. It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and we're starting off with another KT PSA. Don't put swear words or vulgar words in your title if you're gonna fucking censor it, because what's the fucking point? You can fuck yourself. Now let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and helpless lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT.

0:00Oti: And Oti.

0:00KT: Take out your journal while you acknowledge you aren't happy in your marriage, manipulate everyone around you, and do absolutely nothing about it.

1:12KT: There's a Busta Rhymes renaissance happening in Australia in 2021. 2021 Busta Rhymes and all Ali late nineties Busta Rhymes. And the sodium Busta Rhymes. Is that what you're saying? Go and check out our Bad Boys episode if you want that reference to make any sort of sense to you. Oti, let's get into the general stats and information in regards to the show. This is an AMC show. Breaking Bad is the first one that comes to my mind.

1:41Oti: Walking Dead?

1:42KT: Yes. Long suffering. Absolutely. This show, very nice and tight. It's an eight episode first season. It debuted in June 2021. Creator Valerie Armstrong can't say I'm very familiar with her work in regards to the stars. We have Annie Murphy, the ever eternal Annie Murphy. A couple of times we've talked about on this podcast how there was a hubbub because I think they took out the four main categories in the Emmys for Schitt's Creek, and we had to watch it. And we absolutely love and obsessed with the show, including Annie Murphy.

2:17KT: We also have Raymond Lee. I can't say I'm very familiar with him, but he seems like a great guy

2:23KT: as well

2:25KT: Eric Petersen, who isn't a great guy, he's just a guy. Just default out of the packaging with no batteries included.

2:25Oti: Oh, wow.

2:25KT: Right? Let's get into first impressions, Oti. I think we can both agree that we decided to watch this show because of Annie Murphy and we wanted to extend the love past Schitt's Creek. But how did you feel watching this? Also to say spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, but also deliberately helpless, deliberately helpless, and deliberately helpless.

2:58Oti: Well, I think we went into this, yes, for Annie Murphy, but when we did watch the trailer, we were hooked. We were like, looks amazing.

2:58KT: Oh, yes.

2:58Oti: And and we realized pretty quickly, at least I did, that the other shoe wasn't ever was never gonna drop. It was all gonna be Kevin at the center of it because they're not gonna get a fucking rid of him

2:58KT: Interesting.

2:58Oti: Regardless of what happens or what they plan. Mhmm. He's the center of all this. Yeah. It's his name. So without Kevin, there's no animosity.

3:29Oti: And even the animosity that it's there, it's nothing because it can quickly pretty much be solved by anyway, that's podcast territory. I'm just saying, I I thought I was expecting something different. I thought it'll get quite dark pretty quickly Yeah. And get rid of the sitcom element of it once we realize that or at least once Allison

3:49Oti: gets through with the plans and then we're gonna follow her in that sort of adventure, but it's not that kind of show. And I was disappointed by that when I realized that it's not gonna happen. But we kept coming back to it, which I thought was interesting. We kept coming back to it because I I hoped I was wrong. I want to

4:04KT: That's what we want. Right? Yeah. We we want to have lowered expectations and in some way have it met even if it's 10%. And I think that's kind of where we were. Yeah. The first episode was actually really interesting. And unfortunately, as you said, the veil didn't fall and I'm going to use the clusterfuck of 2020, 2021 for me not remembering. But, you know, we had recently finished WandaVision at the time we started watching this show. Well, they might've happened concurrently

4:38KT: and there might've been some overlap. But even in WandaVision, no no spoilers, but the the veneer, you know, that veneer of everything being perfect when you know that there's a lot of danger and there's a lot of pain beneath the surface, that did crumble. And I thought that was going to happen in this show. Right? And we already mentioned spoilers and this is just initially part of my first impressions. We knew from the first episode that she wasn't happy,

5:06KT: but not just that, that she had a goal to kill her husband. We knew that. Morality aside, whether it was justified, whatever it was, we knew that this action was going to take place. And in eight episodes, it didn't fucking happen. And that was frustrating. Don't lead with that then. Just let us live in Allison's terrible drip, drab life.

5:28KT: And then if we get to the death at the end of the first season, then that's cool. But because they did it right at the first episode as like a shock, I guess to pull you in They dangled a car that was never coming. They dangled a Black Noir from the The Boys. And yeah, it was the who did it, who done it? Well, I guess it would be her that did it, but how did she do it? And I think that kind of it made it more arduous to get through.

5:54KT: And I think the writing was a failing in this show. It set itself up to be better in writing than what it actually was.

5:59Oti: Yeah. I see that. I think I agree with that because a lot of the questions that I asked myself while watching this or at least trying to understand what Allison's plights are and trying to empathize with her. Yeah. I fell short most of the time because I just asked myself continually, why don't you just fucking walk away? Yeah. Because what Kevin has done, he's not pretended to be something he's not. He would have definitely been yeah. Exactly. There's no pretense to him. He he's your regular dude.

6:30Oti: He is. And he doesn't mate, you've catered to him for all those years. Yeah. And he's pretty much been the same guy. Yeah. You expected something different. And I understand there were some bombs in there that she found out, like the rainy day effect. Was it the housing fund Yeah. That she's Kevin spent? Like, I was blown. Envisioning a future. Yeah. That was a blow, and I accept that that must have sucked.

6:52Oti: But to me, the question isn't, this guy sucked ten, twenty odd years of my life. I wanna kill him. Mhmm. It's, bitch, I'm done wasting my time with you. I'm getting out of here. Yeah.

6:52KT: And you're exactly right. Kevin was exactly who he was.

7:07KT: It just for me, they just weren't compatible because if Kevin had found the exact opposite, like, or opposite gender, but like someone exactly like him as a woman, he would have been living his best life throwing his money away in jerseys, and it wouldn't have been a problem. The problem is Allison realized, unfortunately, as women, we are very accommodating. Right? But she realized that she deserves to take up space in her life and in her marriage. Kudos. Oprah snaps all the way for you, Allison. However,

7:38KT: this is where the writing with a lesser pen falls apart because we're taking account the fact that this is now in the twenty twenties at least. She does have a job. It's not the nineteen fifties where she can't open a bank account and have any sort of financial independence. Aside from the fact that she obviously isn't earning a lot from where she's working. But the point stands, there were so many considerations or there so many variables in her circumstances before even considering to murder her husband. And,

8:15KT: you know, we we can buy into a lot, you know, we we talk a lot about, you know, suspending well, at least I do. I don't think Oti does. If you go and listen to American Gangster, you'll hear it. But, like, you kind of suspend, like, yes, as Mr. Mackey would say, drugs are bad. But in order to enjoy the and Narcos of it all, you kind of suspend that so you can enjoy it. So it wasn't necessarily

8:40KT: we're not on board of Allison killing her husband. It just didn't feel like there were any compelling reasons to do that. He didn't lock her in the house. She was out walking around and it didn't even seem like she loved him because that kinda that can kind of be one of the last tethers that would, you know, keep you in a relationship or in a marriage that you're not happy with. Right? She didn't seem to love him at all. Yeah. So it's like, there were so many

9:06Oti: like, was pretty much a free goal for her to get through. There were no lines of defenses for her to live a free life. Mhmm. Yeah. And and, you know, like, true. There's an aspect of suspending reality from all this, but it's the writer's job to make us believe in this world they're trying to paint.

9:06KT: Oh, absolutely.

9:06Oti: And if they fall short on that, then that's not all in the viewer thinking,

9:27Oti: why would just not walking away or why are you just doing something else? Because it distracts us from trying to get into the story. Because they've painted they've fallen short of painting a world in which we can buy into the Allison character, empathize Yeah. And feel sorry for her that she's she's stuck in this loveless marriage where she's being where Kevin is manipulating her at every turn, manipulating

9:51Oti: everyone around him, you know, and that's just not the case. I did not see that happening at all. I yeah. I I just I didn't get it. It didn't make sense.

10:01KT: Not even amicable. The the the logical thing in this particular situation will be from her to just walk away from her marriage. Like that literally could have been it. And we'll get into her and Sam and reigniting her high school fling or college fling. Like we'll get to that. But Allison is a problematic character but not problematic in a like McNulty sort of way because McNulty was a fucking mess. Right? Our McNulty lover boy of it all. So we can get behind protagonists that, you know, are less than shiny

10:38KT: and less than polished. But Allison, she was very frumpy, like physically and emotionally about how she felt about herself. And you could definitely see even those bitches in the makeup store. Like you could see the way how she presented herself affected her interactions with people. And a lot of the time when I was like, when we're watching, I was saying how much of this is actually just from her point of view. Right? But I've met many a bitch at a makeup counter. So I would say that stands.

11:11KT: But I feel because she was a bit she she wasn't necessarily fully engaged in her own life. I think a lot of it came back to her, if that makes sense.

11:11Oti: Yeah. It does. It does. And I I think those interactions with those women are there sullen and,

11:26Oti: yeah, that was shitty. I understood that. I felt sorry for her, but I didn't feel sorry for her enough to be like, kill your husband, sorry. Even the first episode where

11:38Oti: she she had the glass in her hand and we saw that happen, I'm like, wait, why?

11:45Oti: And that's the thing. It it keeps on coming back to you. Why? Why? Why? Yeah. And they're not answering. And I think the moment, though this moment where they're going to

11:54Oti: they're traveling with Patty, going out of town to go and get the meds. Yeah. And then they meet this trucker, and the trucker is drunk. They're trying to negotiate the terms, and then Patty comes over and bashes the guy. Yeah. There's a moment where Annie disappears, and I'm like, oh my god, she's actually done it. She's she's run away. But suddenly not, man.

11:54KT: Okay. And this is something else. She was playing this like Sims, Stardew Valley,

12:18KT: Animal Crossing. She was playing in a world where there weren't any consequences because anytime there was any sort of real repercussions, she backed off completely. And we see that with the trucker, and we also see it with Sam as well. Like, what do you fucking want then? Because if you can't even follow through on stepping out on your marriage I think this has become the cheating podcast, Oti. Like, if you can't even follow through with that, if you can't follow through on the trucker incident,

12:48KT: how can you even go so far as to kill him? That makes no sense. So what are you trying to do? Do you just want a little bit of excitement in your life or do you genuinely want to kill your husband? Like, I don't think she has a lot of conviction for the follow through.

12:48Oti: No, she doesn't.

12:48KT: Let's talk about Kevin since he is the titular character in this.

13:07Oti: We kind of shared it already. I don't think he's a bad guy. He's not a bad guy. He's not out here pretending I'll give you the world, Allison. I'll I'll make sure that we, you know, in we get kids or whatever. He's We'll get a new house because she wanted to move out of that house. But nothing Kevin does or says indicates that kind of laugh that he wants anyway. Yeah. He's always surrounded by his dad and Neil. Yeah. Always just up to some weird random adventures, stupid gimmicks.

13:36KT: Yeah. And it was fine because Allison never demanded any of his time and attention. Yeah. So if you if you genuinely wanna work through with it, be mature, be an adult, and fucking talk about it.

13:45Oti: Like, she's the fucking problem in this. She is. She is. And I think that's one of the things that we she comes to or at least we she comes to realize as we go through the series where they're having this conversation with Sam and she was coming off as as some sort of victim and she's just she doesn't have any control. And Sam was like, you're the one controlling all of this. Don't you wanna be better? Yeah. Then she got insulted. Exactly. She's like, why am I not enough? And it's like, fuck off this whole time. You've been saying you're better than Kevin. You want a better life. You wanna get out of this. Sam isn't the problem here. You are. Yeah. You control Sam into having a relationship or affair with you. Everything goes by what you say. That's what Sam said. You control Patty. Patty's over here falling legs over knees or what is it?

13:45KT: I'll need to check your web history.

14:35KT: I would also like to consume what you're watching, sir.

14:40Oti: And and she feels like she's she's which is a complete utter nonsense.

14:47KT: Because I think in her mind, because Kevin is such an overt, you know, out loud sort of character, he is willfully more hurtful than she is just because she's a quieter sort of presence. But she's that piercing sort of manipulation. It's disgusting. The fact that she feels so sorry for herself and she thinks she's the victim in all of it was the most egregious part of this whole show. Yep. It's like, you know, in your classic sort of

15:15KT: soaps where the good guy always thinks that they're good when they're actually not.

15:15Oti: I thought you're gonna bring up Pride and Prejudice and I had a fist ready for you. Even Darcy.

15:15KT: Not even in a pleasurable way, sir. Not even in the way I would do my web searches.

15:28Oti: Darcy thought he was hot shit, man. And he wasn't. Stay out of my Pimbullipus Valley.

15:35KT: But it all comes back to Allison. I I just don't I just it bothers me because, you know, it's so obvious when someone's overtly, you know, disregarding someone's feelings like Kevin, that people don't even see that there are nuances to manipulation and Allison was the fucking puppet master in all of it. Yeah. And to me, you could say the same things

15:58Oti: she's pretty much accusing Kevin of. She's the one that's doing most of it. Yeah. Either intentionally or unintentionally, whether she realizes it or not, she is the one controlling every fucking one around her.

16:12KT: Like, it's sad that you've gotten to a point where it feels like her life feels the way that it was portrayed in the show. However, you are the captain of your own ship, mate. In this particular instance, there weren't any sort of tangible barriers that we encountered in the show. Let's talk a little bit about the contrast in the styles for a bit. When it's in the grayer sort of more realistic sort of lens, it's always from Allison's point of view. And then whenever it goes to like the sitcom level, she kind of always takes a backseat

16:42KT: and it is about Kevin, but the sitcom sort of, you know, genre, it never really follows one character. It just follows the dialogue along with what's whatever's going on. Right? So I thought that was quite interesting that she kind of faded into the background when that sitcom was happening. It was always about Kevin's adventures, but we never really saw it from Kevin's perspective. And I thought we were going to get there because I never thought I would say eight episodes is bloated for a season, but it definitely was.

17:14KT: If you write it terribly, eight episodes can be very bloated. And we never really got any sort of inkling from Kevin's point of view. But if it's just that indulgent and it's all about Allison, then that's what you get in this show. That's what we receive as viewers in this show.

17:14Oti: Agreed. I think I I enjoyed how they used it. I thought it depicted

17:37Oti: the styling quite nicely and and and the mood and the characters as well. And I think what gave me hope is the last episode where everything gets unraveled and Neil finds out the whole plan. Yeah. And to me, I'm like, yes. This is I would have wanted this to happen way earlier than the last third episode? Yes. Let shit get real Yeah. Quite quickly. And it sparked

18:03Oti: something in me, and I thought, well, is there another is there a hope for this show? Yeah. Isn't it making me want to wait for season two? And I'm just I'm just glad that it ended in a way that I I think there's still hope for the writers to do better with this. Yeah. And hopefully, will. Because I think at the at the base of it, they have a strong foundation. They just need to fucking run with it.

18:26KT: I'm I'm not a bricklayer, but if only one brick is strung out of eight, that's not a great foundation.

18:37Oti: What they have to walk with is strong. True. True. And and they just need to be smarter with how they execute it. The execution is is is what's causing the issue, not necessarily how it's how we know the story could go. Yeah. And I think with Neil finally being pulled to the sort of realistic, grunge look of it all, is quite a step because he's always been the one that's super silly even more than Kevin. Mhmm. And to have him now in this world where it's super real,

19:09Oti: it's super dark Yeah. I wanna see where that goes because it it will change the dynamic that everybody else has, especially Kevin, who's also sort of moving away from Neil to begin with. Because Neil always felt like Kevin is gonna go away from his grasp when Kevin wants to now run to be in office and do something else.

19:09KT: Interesting.

19:09Oti: Yeah. So I feel like it'll be quite interesting to see how this pans out.

19:09KT: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And I guess just staying on Neil

19:38KT: for a second, it was interesting. And I guess because I I had lost expectations by episode seven, I wasn't expecting that to happen. I wasn't expecting of all people, Neil, to be in on the cahoots of what's about to happen and the fact that Patty knocked him out. Yeah.

19:56Oti: Siblings. Right? They're siblings. Yeah. They're siblings. You know what? This is another issue which I have with the writers. Patty, Patty, Patty. She has been around Kevin and the gang for however many years Annie has been there. But that's how strong her love is, I guess, is what they're supposed to say. So Patty's in love with Allison. That's at least what they're trying to insinuate. Yeah. And she would do anything for Allison, including murdering her best friend, Kevin?

20:26KT: Toxic love.

20:27Oti: Like, me. I'm not like, it's just a lot of things I'm not buying. Yeah. Ali came out. Like, Patty didn't even came out quite early and said this. Did they need to develop a love story? Like, why? Why does this always happen? Only reason Patty would be on board with all this shit anyway because it doesn't make sense any other way. It's a crutch. It's a crutch that they used. It's a low hanging fruit nonsense, and that's what it is. Not with a push up, bro.

20:53KT: I don't know. It gets annoying when, like, two female characters out of nowhere fall for each other. Not to say that they didn't have stirring feelings all of those years, but it feels like a cheap cop out.

20:53Oti: I don't think they had any feelings whatsoever. Patty never paid attention to Allison, and he said she said, I She thought you stuck

21:10Oti: ignored her. And it's a it's you know, when you're like a kid, oh, he only makes fun of you because he likes you. But in this case, she's a woman, so it's okay to have that same rhetoric.

21:10KT: Boo. I just I didn't care for her, but you're right. There's no other way

21:25KT: to the lengths of loyalty that Patty had that it only made sense if she was deeply in love with her. Otherwise, no one would go through that extension to help that much. And to knock out your brother and force him to go along with the fucking girl. Right. Like that that that made no sense at all. And Patty was stringing that guy along as well, knowing full well that she wasn't happy with him. So, yes, she was manipulated, but the same way Allison allowed herself to to relinquish any sort of independence,

21:58KT: Patty allowed herself to be manipulated. So there's definitely some personal responsibility that she needs to own as well. She hurt that guy's feelings. He was ready to propose. But I've said many times on this podcast, proposing shouldn't be a fucking surprise. You should discuss it like adults and still propose if you want to. I take the romance out of everything, but I'll slurp you just fine.

22:21Oti: Yeah. Fully agree that I think I think fundamentally, this is a problem in how men are perceived in this show.

22:21KT: I know. I know. I wanna see what the hot takes.

22:21Oti: No. I I know that it might sound as if I'm being some sort of doubt. Just hear me out. My reasoning, at least at the end of it, will make sense.

22:21KT: At an intel forum, you. No. You go, my love. You go.

22:21Oti: No. We have two women. Yeah. You know? Two women in Allison and Patty. Uh-huh. Who both are in their relationships.

22:56Oti: Hopefully in each other soon. Yeah. And they're they're unhappy Yeah. In the current how their relationship is. Correct. Patty doesn't like Sam for some reason because Sam wants to go on a diet and

22:56KT: They're just incompatible.

22:56Oti: They're just incompatible. They're saying we're incompatible. Yeah. And there's no problem with that. Yeah. But you cannot paint a Sam as if Sam is a problem. Sam Yeah. Is not a Kevin is not a fucking problem. Yeah. At the end of it, you need to ask yourself, what are you doing about your fucking situation?

23:26KT: Okay. I feel like you're emboldened because of what I said earlier, so that's okay. No. But I'm saying you are sheltered in the same opinion as I, so continue.

23:26Oti: No. No. No. Sam. Sam, I think is a perfect example for this. He also brought up a very good point to Patty when he

23:26KT: I liked it.

23:26Oti: He confronted her. After everything that had happened and she got arrested,

23:49Oti: he confronted her and was like, I never knew anything about you. And you know what? I didn't care if you were safe or not. Good for Sam. Yeah. He cut back and goody did. Mhmm. Because even when they had a conversation with detective Tammy, he was like, yeah, I'm gonna be bitchy because it's one thing to mislead or be miserable in a relationship, but pretend as if it's okay. And then when it's clearly not, when Sam didn't even have an inkling of what's wrong Yeah. They just thought we're in this together. He was ready to fucking propose. Communicate

24:19Oti: that shit. Talk to one another. Yeah. It's so hard. Yeah. Say, Sam, I just think we're right for each other. I'm unhappy. I don't wanna go on a date with you. And then fuck off. Yeah. It's that easy. Yes. Don't stay there. Be miserable. Think the world is on to fucking cave you in Yeah. And then treat Sam as if he's some fucking

24:39Oti: monster or try and paint him as if, oh, man. All the men in our fucking lives are horrible. Bloody hell. Bloody hell. It's just one of those things that I thought, you know what? Kevin, he's not pretending. Sam is not fucking pretending. Then why are they stuck in this in this sort of relationship where they're being where they're trying to be portrayed as some sort of bigoted monsters. Yeah. I just don't I just don't I I don't know. I don't know. You can still be a feminist and hold women accountable, friends and lovers.

25:10KT: No. I agree. I absolutely I absolutely agree. And if we if we were to ship Patty and Allison, their love, if that's what you wanna call it, was founded in their inability or their reluctance to wanna be better people. That's disgusting.

25:27KT: They don't wanna be better people. They don't. They don't. They just wanna be gross and messy together. Yeah. And and to some extent, I think I'm glad we have detective Tammy in this. I feel bad for her too. I feel bad for her because I don't think Patty feels anything for her.

25:27Oti: Tammy is just another dude in this.

25:27KT: Okay. This is where the hyenas live in The Lion King. I can't follow you there, sir. That's not part of Pride Rock. I can't defend you there, sir.

25:55KT: But I get what you're saying. I get your sentiment. She's the outlier in this where she actually is accountable for her own actions, and she is unfortunately a casualty to the warpath of Patty and also byproduct of Allison. I I really don't care to see their relationship, Patty and Allison, flourishing. Like, I don't wanna continue to explore that. But I feel like it's also, you know, when like people cheat and then they can be together in public and it's not exciting anymore. I think that's what's gonna happen to Patty and Allison.

26:28KT: Once they do, if Allison has the courage to to be with Patty, it's not gonna be exciting anymore.

26:35Oti: And the love is gonna fizzle because that's how it was founded. Yeah. And then season four will be watching Allison trying to kill Patty.

26:47KT: I see. I see. It's just gonna continue in that sort of vein. I did like detective Tammy. I I feel bad for her. I don't think this is the end of her. I think we're gonna continue to see her in the show. I don't know what she sees in Patty. Maybe she sees her as like a broken little birdie with a wing and she can fix her. I don't know. Because it seems like she's

27:10KT: consciously aware of the influence that Allison has on her. And she mentioned it a couple of times about it, like, I don't know why you hang around her. Like, you know, there's something suspicious about her. Yeah. And I didn't even take it in a bitchy way. I think she's just like, be careful of the company you keep. Right?

27:27Oti: So I I don't know. I would like to see more of Tammy. I just wanna see less messy women on this show. But I love the fact that she just doesn't like our listeners. She just knew something's up here Yeah. From the get go. Yeah. No reason, just build good old instinct and gut feeling. Yeah. Her clue was pointing in her direction.

27:46KT: Okay. Let's talk about the affair with Allison and Sam. I know we've kind of touched on it a little bit, but there's also the component of his wife Jen.

27:55Oti: Oof. Rough man. Oof indeed.

27:59KT: So so let's talk about Sam because we were introduced to him first before Jen. I don't know. I don't know friends and lovers. If you guys came from like smaller towns and then you lived out in a bigger city and you went back, I would like to know what that experience is like. Because at that point, unless it's like a financial thing, you're choosing to go back to the place where you remember. I'm not saying it's impossible,

28:23KT: but like it's not impossible to grow as a person if you grow up in a small town and you stay in a small town for the rest of your life. But when you move to a bigger city, there are things automatically by default, you're gonna learn about yourself and you're gonna learn about the world.

28:34Oti: Mhmm.

28:34KT: And I don't think Allison has that experience either.

28:34Oti: She doesn't. I think that's one of the reasons why it never really worked out with Sam back then. Yeah. I think when Sam went out and now has to come back to town to live in a house probably paid by the wife's parents in a in a in a in a paid by the wife's parents,

29:03Oti: oh, it's tough. And I'm sure, like, we saw the parents made made him not forget it every single time. Oh, yeah. Oh, mate. We like, what do you expect at the end of it? Did you think that you're gonna get money to start your business and never hear from it? Yeah. Never hear about it when it's your wife's parents footing the bill. Yeah. It's just messy, man. People are messy. Like, get a third party loan. You're not gonna have the bank calling you at midnight telling you you're a failure. The bank will come and reclaim the house, but at least

29:32Oti: you will feelings involved. Yeah.

29:35KT: Sorry, bruv. Gotta repossess you for real with me. Exactly.

29:40KT: I would take that that having to hear at every family meeting or have to go to every gathering because It's I mean in It's in laws. So it's it it makes it worse as well. Yeah. You can't miss a dinner date or anything because you have to go. Yeah. My parents paid for this. Especially if Jen is the sort of person where she'll tell her parents or at least her mom when you guys have fights. And she does. Yeah. We saw. She she puts out their laundry out in public. Yeah. Like, it's a good old time. Oh my god, man. That's insane. Yeah. And we should have learned from Tom in Succession that you just can't rely on the in laws,

30:16KT: always being seen as the lesser. Yeah. I don't know. Like, I've never been in that situation where, where, like, like, I I I I take take a a loan from my family or from Oti's family, but I would never put myself in that position because you know that's gonna happen.

30:16Oti: I mean, straight out of I think I was still in college. In college, I wanted to start a business. I needed to buy a license. It was like $20.

30:40Oti: We didn't know where to get fucking $20. Yeah. And you know what we did? We didn't go to our fucking parents. We wrote a fucking business plan. Yeah. And we went to every fucking person we knew who had money.

30:40KT: Who's not related to us?

30:40Oti: Oh, you know you know my mother? Okay. Next one. Because at the end of it all, man, family is messy. You just don't wanna dip in that. Absolutely.

31:04KT: And if anyone wanted evidence about love not being unconditional and love being conditional, look at the way your family treats you, especially if they give you money and you talk shit to them. See see how far that unconditional love takes you, friends and lovers. But Sam and Jen obviously didn't have a perfect marriage, you know, all all relationships and marriages have their problems. But I think Sam was fine to weather the storm. He seemed fine with his situation.

31:33Oti: I don't think he's fine. I think he's he was slowly drowning and just not being able to say anything about it.

31:33KT: Yeah. But I don't think, like, the the entanglement would have happened if Allison hadn't have initiated that. That's what I'm saying. Like Sam was just chilling.

31:33Oti: He was drowning.

31:33KT: He was half floating.

31:51Oti: He was okay minding his business. And then Allison comes along and wants to fuck shit up. And that's exactly what she did. Yeah. And to the point where the relationship was so much in the rocks that I think Sam had an AA meeting. I think we'd been how many years sober? And the wife wasn't even able to go there. That tells you everything. She even had a compelling reason either. She just didn't Yeah. Turn up near the until the end. Exactly. It's insane.

32:17KT: Well, yeah. And that's sad, but he he wasn't going out and manipulating other people for his own selfish needs. Yeah. But you know what was rich about this situation was? Not

32:27Oti: felt a way about Sam being with his wife. Like me, you're with fucking Kevin. What did you expect? You're both philanderers. Yeah.

32:37KT: Was it a ruse to philander? Yeah. Yeah. I I don't get it.

32:45KT: Jen, she kinda checked out or whatever, but we we come to find that Jen was, I think his his girlfriend in college. So so the little entanglement that Sam and Allison had, I think it was kind of still happening at the same time you met Jen, but ultimately he chose Jen. And Allison felt away about it. And I think her engaging in the affair with him was her reclaiming the power. Oh, yeah. Like, yeah, I'll fuck your man whenever I want to unless he's with you, but then I'll fuck him after.

33:16KT: So I I guess Jen definitely has a downfalls, but she's also not the worst in this show as well. Do you think we're gonna see more of Jen?

33:16Oti: We are. I think that boat is still in open waters,

33:29Oti: and I think she will play a bigger part, especially once we start to see Kevin and Sam's world collide because Kevin's gonna run his campaign off of Sam's Diner. Yeah. So I'm pretty sure everyone's life is gonna pretty quickly intertangle.

33:45KT: Yeah. I've I would like to see more of Jen's character. I think a lot of us and I I like speaking on behalf of women because Mike White likes speaking on behalf of people that aren't white. But with Jen, there's nothing really inherently bad about her as a person or as a character. But I do resonate with Allison. Like when you see someone that is so like devastatingly gorgeous and they look, underline look, like they've got their shit together, it it it is intimidating.

34:18KT: So I I get it from that point of view, but I don't think Jen has done anything outrightly in Allison's direction for her to feel in secure. Oh, no. She other than Vicky remarks to her. Yeah. But is that is that enough to kill her? Just like it's enough to kill Kevin?

34:34KT: It all it all circles around back to Allison. Is there anything else about Sam and Jen you wanted to talk about?

34:34Oti: I feel sorry for him.

34:34KT: I wanna see the dynamic get teased out about him and the in laws though.

34:34Oti: No. That was

34:34KT: Yeah. Brutal I know. But compared to everything else that's going on in this show, I kinda wanna see him go triumphant. But I guess it's a lose lose because if he's doing badly,

34:56KT: he's hemorrhaging their money. But if he does well, any successes he has is tethered to them. Yep. It's because of me. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I'm I'm kind of into that daytime soap opera storyline.

35:10Oti: That's messy, dude.

35:12KT: Well, compared to everything else we have to enjoy, I'm definitely enjoying that. Let's talk about our ever eternal Robin Lord Taylor whose face only belongs in Gotham playing playing Nick.

35:23Oti: Wow. He it was a surprise to him. He had forgotten he was in this show. What a face. Yeah. I can't I can't I can't picture him from being Penguin in in Gotham.

35:35KT: Yeah. And he he reminds me of our beloved Aussie, Callan Mulvey. Like, whenever you see his face, you know he's he's the bad guy. He is the bad guy.

35:45Oti: Out here pretending as if he's some stand up. No. You know. Some romantic love walks in You know there's gonna be a plot twist, and he's gonna be bad.

35:54KT: So let's talk about Nick.

35:54Oti: I liked him in this. You know? I I liked how he called out Allison on her crap all the time. Yeah. He makes no illusion to who he is. Exactly. Exactly. And I think it was it was cheap for him to die the way he did.

35:54KT: Oh, yeah. Do you think he's dead? I don't want him to be dead.

35:54Oti: He's dead. He's dead. They're investigating it, mate.

36:15KT: That's a shame. I really enjoyed having him in the show. I guess we just need to go back to Gotham.

36:15Oti: Gotham's finished.

36:15KT: Well, that shows how much I care about that show then. Yeah. And I also liked he had a moment when he was talking to Patty. When I think it was his aunt that continued to come back for upping her doses.

36:36KT: Patty is not an idiot and she's not a good enough actress to pull off that she's an idiot. No. Because no. Because when when Nick confronted her, he's like, what are you talking about? Why would this old lady need this amount of drugs? What do you think was happening? Exactly. And then Patty tried to bat her eyelashes like she's never the wiser. She's innocent. Thought I thought she thought her pain was Like, yeah, come on now. She doesn't have like a Tyrannosaurus

37:04KT: Rex sort of spine. Like, she don't need that much for her back pain. But I just enjoyed the the placement of Nick as a character because the contrast of that, it it pays well in his favor and it comes off very unfavorably for Patty and Allison. And the fact that they treated him like he was lower than them when Patty was the number one drug dealer in the neighborhood.

37:31Oti: Yeah. She was. Wild.

37:33KT: Absolutely wild. I I liked I just liked him because he was he was he was always there to fuck some shit up. And I was absolutely there for it.

37:33Oti: Me too. Me too.

37:33KT: What a blow. Eight episodes this show has been so far. We don't normally do this Oti, but I think I need this to give me any glimmer of hope when season two comes around. What are your predictions? What do you think is going to happen?

38:06KT: Or what do you hope? Either one. What do you think? What do you hope will happen in the next season? Do you think actually, first question, do you think Kevin's gonna get killed in the next season?

38:06Oti: Kevin's not winning anywhere.

38:06KT: Okay. Let's be clear.

38:06Oti: Okay. I think Kevin's gonna win the election.

38:06KT: Well, maybe it's Kevin Can Fuck Himself, then Kevin Can Resurrect Himself.

38:26Oti: Oh, yeah. Have that Us duality in there.

38:26KT: Wow. I feel like we're we're we're due for a rewatch of Us.

38:26Oti: We are due. We are due. I think I think Neil is gonna somehow warn Kevin about what's going on. But by that time, Kevin would have been elected. He would be more powerful, have more control over other people, and Allison will be way more stuck than she thinks she is right now.

38:55KT: Oh, the quicksand of it all, Oti. Okay. Interesting. You don't wanna hear about Sam and his in laws?

39:03Oti: I just hope Sam gets out of it alright. Yeah.

39:07KT: I agree on all on all parts

39:10Oti: for you. I want the veneer of the sitcom to fall apart though. It will. I have a feeling I have a feeling it will cope pretty quickly.

39:19KT: But maybe it would have been fine if we hadn't have watched WandaVision. Maybe that's, no, but really from a from a writing point of view, it did stretch itself too long. So I guess we'll see. But that if I can only have one thing in the next season, it's to drop that sitcom veneer. Yeah. I think once everyone finds out exactly what was planned, it's gonna drop. And let's hope Neil delivers the blow early. We love when there's a blow and a drop in the same sentence. Yeah.

39:48Oti: P-Valley is coming out soon. But you see what you do to me, Monica.

39:52KT: La Casa de Papel is also coming out very soon. Friends and lovers, cool down with your lover or your spouse if you hate them enough. Let's get into the final segment For Your Reference, Oti.

40:09Oti: I think since you've already teased it up in the episode, I'd go for WandaVision.

40:14KT: I tease it, Oti rides it, and snaps it up. I'll put it up, put it better myself. Also have a Key and Peele episode, Friends and Lovers. So make sure you go and check that out. I will reference Schitt's Creek. Hoo. Annie Murphy and the Levys.

40:14Oti: Woo hoo. Good. Very good.

40:14KT: If you would like to rad it and snap it off with us on Twitter and Instagram, we're at for your f one. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

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