Interview with “CEEBS” Creators Betiel Beyin & Leigh Lule

Full transcript of Interview with “CEEBS” Creators Betiel Beyin & Leigh Lule.

0:04KT: Zion and Ruby run for Youth President to save their youth center from imminent closure and shield their womb-to-the-tomb friendship from the crossfire. CEEBS released its first episode on September 15th, and the 15th episode is out with very close friends and lovers, um, and is available to watch on TikTok as well as Instagram. Betiel and Leigh, it's been a journey to get here, but thank you so much for your time and the time we're about to have, and welcome to the For Your Reference podcast. Thank you.

0:36Betiel: Thank you. Thank you for having us.

0:38KT: Uh. I just want to hold this moment and congratulate the both of you because the credits are absolutely there. Um, but CEEBS is the baby and the baby gal of the moment, so I wanna congratulate the both of you. And I guess just check in with how you're feeling on, on the launch and the success of it So far.

0:59Betiel: We're feeling good. I mean, we're dropping episodes every day and we're getting that instant. Instant feedback on TikTok. So it's been really fun to like just keep watching with everyone and, um, you know, it's been mostly positive, so it's been really exciting to share our little baby with the world.

1:19Leigh: Yeah. Yeah, it's been very, very surreal. Like yesterday I was at DFO and these two black girls came up to me and were like, we love your show. We are watching your show. It's a gift card. Go, go get, go get something

1:35KT: cute.

1:37Leigh: But like, it was just so surreal to have like that in real life. Mm-hmm. Like. Real time feedback and knowing that like we are reaching the audiences that we made it for, like that felt really good.

1:52KT: Yeah. Yeah. And then I, I guess the journey to get here. Four years, grant writing, pitch competition, approaching production companies. I guess we can do it now. We can do it at the end. Like shouting out the whole team, Nikki and Amy, the producers, like, it's been such a long journey and I guess. The art is the art, right? But there's a lot of things that like come into that. How was it going to, I guess, that sort of process and having people that believe in you and want to build with the both of you? Mm.

2:25Betiel: I mean, we created Zion and Ruby all the way back in like 2019 and they started as small skits and like one off scenes that gradually grew into their own little world. Um, and then from there, we. Created this IGTV series, these little teasers of CEEBS. And so we were kind of just like flushing out these characters in these worlds and creating like proof of concepts mm-hmm. Um, to kind of reach our audience. And so, um, of course all of this with our amazing producers, Nikki Tran and Amy Ball, um, who've been there every step of the way. And we appreciate them so much because, um, you know, a lot of this work is kind of just. Kind. Right. You know, you kind of do it when you have time because this wasn't our, our full-time work. So they've been, yeah, they've been there all from the beginning and they've believed in, in this project and us, and these, and these stories and these characters. Um, and yeah, really shout out to them. They're great.

3:31Leigh: Shout out to Harry Lloyd. Um, who, who, like when? Director, director,

3:37KT: director

3:37Leigh: of the series. Yes, the director. Um, 'cause we had little meetings with, you know, a couple directors to kind of be like, what's the vibe? What do you think? And like. As soon as we had that meeting with Harry, we were like, you are on the exact same page as us. Like, yeah, you have the same, like, you know exactly what crazy cooked sense of humor we're going for. Like yeah. They, they really felt like the final piece, um, to like the core team puzzle, you know?

4:06KT: Mm. Building a team is so important and uh, uh, Oti and I watched it together. We watched the series, so we OG Vimeo, so we watched the screener, um, on Vimeo and then I very quickly watched it just to see what it was like on social as well. And it definitely gives, you know, a different sort of atmosphere as well. But I think. One of the thi first things that we noticed when we were watching the screener was how crispy, like this was like proper quality production. Yes, it's on the socials, but it was done in such a great sort of way. And I guess this comes into my next question of, for the both of you. Especially on the socials, you kind of have to be everything 'cause you're both everything anyway. But you know, you need to be like the, the lighting, the production design. You need to do everything. And of course you can do everything. But you know, bringing in Harry, bringing in, you know, everyone that came to make this project. Is it easier? Is it like, oh, if I had the time, I want to do all of it myself. Like, how does it work in, not necessarily controlling, but like how does it work in, you know, you can do it yourself and the freedom in that and also the freedom in like knowing you can focus on what you are focusing on and having people that know how to cook that everyone's cooking.

5:22Betiel: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think Leigh and I, because we, we've been so attached to this story for so long. We were like, take it and make it better. And we trust. We trust the people that you know are in the CEEBS family so much that. I don't think we really had a problem of like letting go. I think, you know, when it comes to the writing, maybe we were a little bit more attached, but when it came to like the visuals and look and like the presentation of how CEEBS is gonna present itself out there, we were, we like, believed in, we believed our, our team so much and we trusted their vision that we were happy to kind of let go, um, in terms of that. So yeah, and I think Harry, I think on, I think the first day of filming was like. Do not worry about any of the technical side. I want you to focus on being performers and having fun and we're gonna handle all of the, the other stuff. So we're like, great. Yeah. And so that really helps. That really, really helped and I'm glad they said that. Leigh, for you?

6:28Leigh: Yeah, I feel like it was, I mean, initially it was a bit like. At least personally I was kind of, 'cause we had a lot of, um, references of like, this is the color palette we want. These are like the kind of styles, this is like, we were pretty, um, what's the word I'm looking for, involved. We were, yeah. It's more like we were like, this is what we're going for, and then we just trusted that everybody would be able to bring that to life. Yeah. Um, mm-hmm. And they did. And, and they did like, and they came up with stuff that we never would've considered, like ever. So like that's the beauty of just having such a talented team. Like, you have so many minds at work, you know? Yeah. And, and everybody is tapping into something different and, and, um, yeah. And working off their individual skill sets and, and yeah. And just bringing stuff that's like innovative and, and yeah. Unexpected. I think. Yeah. That was, that was really. Really appreciated and like, I feel like it really elevated the piece.

7:39KT: Yeah. And I think that's how you get the best result, the funniest result. 'cause that's, you know what I mean? It's not like it's mine only. Yeah. No,

7:48Betiel: because then that's just like, that's boring really quickly. You know? You gotta get other, other cooks in the kitchen. Not too many. What seasoning, what seasonings do you

7:59KT: have? Yeah,

8:00Betiel: exactly.

8:02KT: Um, well, I, I guess, you know, um, Leigh, you kind of noted on, you know, when Harry was directing and I think something that I wanted to touch on is genre, especially because there's not many black Australian, or you could even tell me if there are any. Like short form series on the big screen televisions on the, you know, going to your Hoyts and Events, if there are even any. So I, I guess sometimes whether it is, or whether it's what gets green lit in regards to very serious dramas, which is very important, but it's also nice to dabble in playing some joy in. Some, you know, some puppetry like, you know, some frivolity and some nonsense and just like having fun with it. Um, was that sort of like, I, I know the characters were developed earlier, but was that like a conscious sort of decision or is that, does that just kind of lean into the both of your sort of vibes and personalities of this is just the story we want to make?

8:59Leigh: I feel like naturally we both have a very, a very like elevated, surreal absurdist sense of humor. So I think from the get go it was kind of gonna be absurd even if we didn't want it to like, like it's just kind of instinctual when it comes to writing comedy for us anyway. Um, yeah. What do you think, Bibi?

9:24Betiel: Yeah, it's gonna be, yeah. I think from this. From the beginning, it was gonna be strange and weird in whatever kind of format we did it in. But I think for us comedy, we both love watching comedy and we both really enjoy writing comedy. And comedy lets us tackle serious issues without the heaviness that can sometimes turn people away. And with CEEBS, like the humor gives us permission to. Laugh at kind of like the messiness of these girls' lives and mm-hmm. You know, this youth center shutting down and these, and these like faceless antagonists, um, being the cause and causing all these issues for them. So, um, yeah, I think, I think humor gives you permission to kind of tackle all these little things, but it's in, in a funny way. Mm-hmm. I think it's, it was a conscious decision in terms of, we really wanted to show that our communities are playful, they're witty, they're smart. It's not just like defined by hardships, you know? Mm-hmm. So, um, yeah, we, we wanted jokes first, comedy first absurdist, kind of high humor first. And then, um, the, the kind of the, the heart of the show. Um, about being these two best friends. Saving their center was always at the core, but we wanted to kind of, uh, put it from a, from a comedy lens.

10:52KT: Yeah. And I think that's also good that you, you both don't feel the burden of being the everything. Like if this is the first like African Australian series, some someone sees you don't feel the burden of that. You should be able to create and play exactly the way you want to. Right, exactly. Yeah. I wanna talk about the format, uh, 'cause you know, the tiktoks kind of scares me, so I'm kind of glad you guys released on the Instagram, but I'll make sure I'll go over there and put the engagements in there too. Um, thank you. You know, you, you both are filmmakers and, you know, writers and in different sort of formats, but we are talking about this new series. I know they're talking, it was, is it like Chinese dramas that are like one minute? I haven't really dabbled into like the really short, mm. Sort of format. And I've heard a, I've heard a few interviews where you guys talk about like killing your darlings and I'll be happy to hear that as well. But I guess when you are in that sort of like this needs to hit like every second of this, 59 seconds, one minute sort of clip, how was it, I guess, trying to make sure that you've got that there, like thematically the episodes follow a theme, but it also is overarching and it is servicing. The plot as well. How was it being able to play in this particular format?

12:14Betiel: It was rough writing this because we had to write like one to two page scripts an episode, and so we had to kill a lot of darlings to like service the story because they are bite-sized fast. Um, episode. And so I think we kind of wrote it more like a short film was probably like the easiest way to approach the writing of this. Um, because we wanted to have a cohesive storyline. You know, we wanted, um, a three act structure and, you know, we, we wanted to hit all those beats. Um, but yeah, approaching it as, okay, we're writing this like, kind of condensed short film, but they're just gonna be released in bite-sized episodes. Um, with how we kind of reframed that.

13:04KT: Mm-hmm.

13:06Leigh: There was, it got like really technical at, at points, like, um, like our producers, Nikki and Amy being like, we should be able to go through every single episode and the episode should have like a goal. And, and that is the entire focus of the episode. Like, we can't, we can't get tangential. Or go on like little band to side quests. And we

13:29Betiel: love, we love side quests, we love that. Like you what? What do they,

13:35KT: what do they say? Like you get like the full special features, deleted scenes. Like that's the whole storytelling. You need to have 20 different flows going on at the same time.

13:45Betiel: Exactly, exactly. TikTok, it's so much harder because there's all these rules. With TikTok, it's like you need a hook. You know, people like scroll away in like the first three seconds if they're not interested.

13:57Leigh: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

13:57Betiel: So you have to be really conscious of all these little things as well when you're working in the platform of TikTok.

14:02Leigh: Yeah. Yeah. We found like there was this general rule that we used, which is like, um, come in late and leave early. Mm-hmm. So like you have a scene like. Come into the scene already in the action. Like, whereas traditional media, usually there's a buildup

14:22KT: to,

14:23Leigh: to make like, oh yeah,

14:23KT: like the sports, like how did they, when did they Exactly. I need a montage. Exactly. How did they get, get to the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree. Yeah. But it's like, no,

14:32Leigh: you start in the action like you. Um, what's the word you count on the audience to pick up on context clues. Mm-hmm. Like, it's, it's a real method of we're just gonna place them in it and we're going to give them the information that they need to catch on quickly. Mm-hmm. Um. And then get out of there early. 'cause we don't need to see the character saying, bye, see you tomorrow. It's like, no, we're leaving. We've said what we need to do. Cut. Next one. Um, so yeah, it was a, it was a real exercise in like, what is the most engaging way to start this and, and to finish it, I think. Yeah.

15:13KT: Yeah, and there's also like a lot of like references that are global as well. 'cause for that football, the rugby one, it was, it said Coach Carter could never, and I was like, oh, it's like so many like different references that I guess also talks to a global audience. Um, as well, there are some things that are very specifically Australian, like Leigh. I know you were talking about like the censors and how maybe AI isn't picked up on the Australian like accents. So it's like, it's, it's a way that it feels fresh as well. But, um, yeah, we don't have to go into a lot of detail, but I do want to touch on, I guess the sort of censorship, 'cause even trying to like, mm-hmm. You try to post the post and you need to asterisk the fuck out of everything. Like it's just like, this doesn't even look like a word anymore. Um, and it must be very difficult 'cause you're doing a whole series, you know, it's, everything is connected and. There's a moment where it's very clear. You can see, you know, some episodes are getting pushed and, you know, other episodes aren't getting pushed either. Yeah. And it's, it's, you know, bringing that community around together as well. Um, is that something that's sort of discouraging or is it like bit, I just need to do it, like, we just need to try a different approach?

16:26Betiel: Yeah, it's, it's so interesting because we really didn't think that TikTok. Censorship laws were that strict. Mm. Um, and because our, our show is, you know, there's, there is a political satirical element to it. And so, you know, certain words are being, certain words TikTok doesn't really like. Right. And so that's been interesting to kind of go, oh, okay, this is really weird and strange and, um, not okay. But I think we are just trying our best to like scheme and try to like. Of TikTok and I think our accent really does help because the AI robot doesn't pick up on certain words that we say because they don't understand it. So that's something that we've noticed.

17:16KT: So we're recasting I, Robot instead of Will Smith, we're going to get a black Australian actor. Exactly. Just like the uprising. We got it.

17:26Betiel: Yeah. Um, and then, yeah, just with the language that we use when we promote our episodes, we kind of have to shift that a little bit if we wanna push certain episodes out. But yeah, we have, yeah, we have certain episodes that just aren't, aren't, aren't doing very well and people aren't engaging with them 'cause it's not coming up on their feed because Yeah. TikTok doesn't like, um, democracy and they don't like certain words like vote or president or. So it, it's interesting to see, yeah.

17:59Leigh: Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's very interesting 'cause you know, when we went into the writing process, we were like, okay, let's make this as accessible as possible in terms of like, we don't wanna use explicit language. Um, we don't want, like, violence or, or weapons. Like, like those really basic things that are like, yeah, of course that would change the rating of it, but. To think that Yeah. Stuff like vote, um, or like characters campaigning.

18:30KT: Yeah. Um,

18:31Leigh: we did not expect those things to be classed as like problematic material. Yeah. Um, so, so yeah. I, I remember when our producers and our marketing team first told us, I was like, so taken aback by it. Yeah. Um, 'cause it was so unexpected. But, but yeah. We're, um. We're trying our best to, we're not letting,

18:56KT: we're not letting

18:57Betiel: them win.

18:58KT: We're not letting

18:58Betiel: them win.

18:59KT: We're here letting

19:00Betiel: them win.

19:00KT: Shout us to shout outs to like, you tricking the algorithm with the Kendrick. Like, I don't even know what that specific like means. I was like, yeah. I was like, you gotta, you gotta do what you gotta do. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Um, I, I just wanna give a shout out to Western Edge Youth Arts. Um, Michael, Michael Long, or we interviewed when he was like a CGA rising star. I forget years. Was it last year? Like the year before? Yeah. Um, and he is been like slowly popping up like he was in, uh, Fisk. Um, and he is in, been in a couple of things. They were like, oh, that's our friend, that's Michael. And then we're watching this series and we're like, oh, that's Michael. And he's perfect.

19:45Betiel: Yeah.

19:46Leigh: We love that man.

19:46Betiel: Yeah, Michael's a very good friend, so, uh, very proud of all his, all of his accomplishments and his, um, cameo in CEEBS was great.

19:55KT: Yeah, and like it's, I I, I guess it's so great to see you be able to dabble in like grassroots for the community and then I guess it's still community, but on socials it's like opening up, you know, to the world as well. And um, before I wrap up with our final question, I just wanna thank the both of you. So much for taking the time to come on this nasty little podcast. Like when Amy reached out, I was like, I was like, um, but no, like absolutely really love chatting to you girls and also checking out the series as well. I am a podcaster, so I try to be succinct, but baby, I am over that minute voice note. I am maxing that five minute voice note, so I don't even know. How you were able to achieve it, but obviously talent, gorgeousness, lovey funny, everything. Um, but I wanna thank you guys so much for your time and wrap up with our final question. Uh, we finish off our reviews with a recommendation. So what would you pair with CEEBS as a double feature? So usually if it's a film, but it can be a film, it can be a short film, it can be a TV series. It can even be a, a mini series if you want to get me hooked on those. But I guess it can be like. Thematically the same or even something opposite. So what? Whatever you like.

21:15Betiel: That's a really fun question. Okay. Lemme think

21:19Leigh: the way that I have not been watching TV recently.

21:23Betiel: It can be something old. You're making your

21:25KT: own stuff, that's why. Oh, shout out the Heartbreak High as well.

21:31Leigh: Shout out.

21:32Betiel: Our inspirations, like when we were writing the show was Community.

21:41KT: Love it.

21:42Betiel: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's just, I mean, that's just like such a funny, classic sitcom. That's something everybody needs to watch. So I would say Community.

21:54KT: I recently learned that only millennials use gif reactions, like, as a thing. So, sorry, because that's all I'd be doing. But there's, uh, there's the dean fainting, like there's the dean fainting. Oh yeah. And I use that like all the time. Oh, Community, that's a good one. I, I, I can say that, Leigh.

22:13Leigh: You know what me and my family have been watching recently? There's this really old show called Once Upon a Time. Oh, do y'all remember this? I know. Yeah. We've been rewatching it and I think the level, I feel like the first few seasons were really grounded, but we're in like the back half.

22:36Betiel: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

22:37Leigh: And they are so ridiculous. And camp and the CGI is so bad, but there's just something in like the over the topness of it and the fact that it knows it's over the top and it's not apologetic about it. No. Like there's something about that that I really appreciate and love. Um, yeah, that's my recommendation. Shout out.

23:02KT: Shout out. The show came out, uh, the show was released in 2011, and friends and lovers. That's how I know. I'm sad because you, I'm sad and I'm old because you said old and it came out in 2011. Well, I was, I was

23:16Leigh: 12

23:16KT: at the time.

23:17Leigh: Yes. So, you know, in my mind I'm like, oh, that was old. A lifetime ago.

23:22KT: But I think that also like that, that definitely is like a nice mix because it's like folklore, fairytale and it plays on the genre. And then you guys have like a satire going on with like the vessel of puppetry as well. That's not, we're also layered as well in our recommendations. I absolutely.

23:42Betiel: Exactly. So if you like Once Upon a Time and Community, you're gonna love CEEBS.

23:48KT: There you go. We didn't even need an AI to recommend that. We did that all by ourselves. We did that ourselves. Exactly. Uh, where and when? If you want people to find you, uh, it's plug time. If you've got any, um,

24:02Betiel: I would, the show obviously say. CEEBS on TikTok on and Instagram at CEEBS series, CEEBS series, TikTok and Instagram, and that's where you'll find all the episodes and a lot of behind the scenes silly TikTok videos as well.

24:21KT: Leigh, do you have any other plugs? Oh,

24:24Leigh: um, I guess we'll do our personal plugs. I'm Leigh Lule. L-U-L-E. Eel is Bibi Dilla, D-I-L-L-A. That's

24:37KT: me love. That's us. Well, thank you again so much for your time. Thanks. This was so fun. Thank you.