Interview with “America Made Me a Black Man” author, Boyah J. Farah

Full transcript of Interview with “America Made Me a Black Man” author, Boyah J. Farah.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household. And it's another edition in our interview series, Oti.

0:05Oti: It is.

0:06KT: Thank you so much to Boyah for his time. Talking about his memoir. America Made Me a Black Man. It is available in the US, the UK and online globally. How do you feel, Oti? I love the interview. I think, uh, we covered a lot of things and it's just a great book to read generally.

0:27KT: Absolutely. Uh, you know, Boyah touches all points of his life. Be it the war in Somalia or the nuances of racism in America and in all Western context was where no strangers to Oti. Sure. Not. Thank you so much. Make sure you check out the book and meet us in the DMs. We would love to have a chat, play the interview.

0:54KT: Hailing from the nation of poets, Somalian-American Boyah J. Farah wields a masterful pen of his rich life experiences through various publications from September 6th, Boyah introduces America Made Me a Black Man to the world. Traversing the extremes of war in Somalia and the nuances of racism in America, Boyah guides the reader through universal lessons.

1:20KT: Many of us can resonate with a reflective and honest love for the American Dream. First of all, thank you so much Boyah for coming onto the For Your Reference podcast. Also, congratulations on a brilliant, brilliant book. Welcome. We're very excited. We've read the book and we're very excited to discuss it with you today.

1:40Boyah: Thank you so much. Thank you. So it's a lot to me for you to read my said, or you read my book. It's wonderful. That's a writer's dream. Right?

1:49Oti: So America Made Me a Black Man as such a resonating title. Uh, majority of Africans migrating, uh, for one reason or another will quickly find out that they're black.

1:59Oti: So, and the weight of what that means. So when you are writing this, the, the title of the writing come

2:06Boyah: first, uh, the, the writing came first and after I, I, I got that out. Then the title came after.

2:13KT: Nice. There's a consistent push and pull between the extreme witnessing the atrocities of. So the almost invisible nuances in systemic racism in America, was this a conscious balance or did you just let it flow naturally?

2:31Boyah: Uh, I let it flow naturally normally. Um, you know, uh, when you win this war and you need this tragedies and that magnitude, you always, your mind is always tenses back that nothing can bother you after you saw that. But racism. Is basically seeps into your heart, your liver, your kidneys, you know, it drives you crazy.

2:49Boyah: I think racism is the cousin of death, not just a cousin of death, but the cousin of agonizing death. And so it was natural for me. Um, to look at the war and say, this is actually 10 times worse. Racism is much more worse than, than war from my experience. I've seen a lot of, a lot of war in my life, a lot of death in my life. I

3:09KT: think it's also like with war it's, it's like Tanta, mentally. This is exactly what it is. And I think with racism, especially in a lot of Western countries, someone can make a comment about, you know, like a white person being like my skin's darker than you. And it's like, hang. Is that okay? Like, is that right?

3:27Boyah: you know, those little comments, you know, basically they, they, without you noticing it, it's like a bullet you're carrying so many bullets and you know, and all those little comments, all the harassment, all the, you know, all my li my interaction with. Uh, basically broke me down and I never thought anybody can break me down after I've seen war and refugee camp and, you know, running away from, from Somalia.

3:55Boyah: I mean, it's a, it's a tragic place. When you think about, you know, what has been happening in the last 20 years or 30 years. So for me, I never really thought that I'll discover that in America, And then I just had to, um, put it down and write it. And so the world can see what, what that racism is much, much more worse and much more dangerous.

4:15Boyah: And it's generational. Your legacy, your kids, kids could inherit it. And the war is not. War is not generational. The witness death I've I've witnessed death 19 91 92. And I bury them and that was it. You know, I think about this sometimes, but they don't follow me around the racism does. Right.

4:30Oti: So I can imagine while writing through this process, uh, what was the moment you realized all these experiences were actually racist?

4:38Boyah: Um, you know, you're not, you're not really an American until you actually work, hit the workforce. I was not really American when I was in high school. I was not really American when I was in college. I had cars had, you know, I, you know, I had a good life, you know, at least, you know, I better than where I came from.

4:54Boyah: You know, I had a little Honda Civic, you know, I had a job at a place. It was beautiful. You know, I listened to hiphop, um, reggae, you know, it was, it was good. Those little things of, you know, cops are stopping you being profile. You know, those little things. I really, I was too young and too naive to understand that that was a, that one day will break me down.

5:14Boyah: When I really realized that racism incredibly dangerous is when you get, when you hit the workforce and you see yourself bouncing from one job to another, and you don't really know why, and you train a white worker, who's less educated than you. And he he'll become your boss and you have to actually do his job, knowing that a guy doesn't qualify. And that happened to me so many times, and that puts you in a, in a space of depression and talking to yourself and you just don't know what to do. So, you know, it's a, it's a very tragic place to be knowing that you are less of a human being than white people who are the majority of this.

5:35KT: Yeah. And I think part of what makes these systems thrive is because one person made it, that means everyone's supposed to make it without realizing it's set up to be the good black person, you know?

6:04KT: So like everyone else is terrible and that's why you made it because you are the best and you've done above and beyond what was expected of you.

6:11Boyah: Yes. And as an African who, you know, when Barack Obama became a president, you know, I voted for whom I campaign for whom I was like, this is. Barack Obama is gonna be president and star wearing red time.

6:25Boyah: The Obama racism over, I thought it was gonna be over. In fact, it has gotten worse. Racism became incredibly visible after Barack Obama, visible at the workplace, visible driving on the American highways, visible everywhere. Uh, so it was actually, it, the country became much more dangerous for people like me. And because Africans, we came from, you know, we have a different culture. We have a different country. We tend not to. What African Americans go through until we actually become our souls, an African American.

6:55KT: And I think, um, it's, it, it, it's funny to say spoiler, cuz it's literally your life, but for those that are interested to read the book, I'm not going to spoil it. So to say, but you do touch on the differences of experiences of black people. It's not just one black experience and that really comes back to the strength of the title of your book.

7:14Boyah: Mm. Thank you. Thank you. I, I really wanted to. You know, uh, I, I really wanted to, you know, I, I, my own mother told me not to write this book.

7:23Boyah: You know, a lot of people, because you're from Africa, you're supposed to appreciate America. You're supposed to like, oh my God, you came from Somalia. Aren't you lucky? I mean, hear you write a book like this, and I, I can understand my mother, she hasn't been assimilated into this country. She never learned the language.

7:41Boyah: Um, so for her, when we were in the refugee camp, the only country that allow. With America, you know, so for her, that is significant. So she's like, if you're gonna write anything about America, you gotta say, America, love, love, love, love the best country in the world. Don't say anything negative about America.

7:57Boyah: But if, if we want America to confront herself in the mirror, Then a story like this has to be told. And so I had to, you know, go opposite than what my mother told me. So I can tell America what it has been doing to black people, you know, the last 400 years, and it's continuing to do it. So hopefully books like this can help.

8:20KT: And I think what I really love about the book is you talk. Having a love for America, but it's a very pragmatic sort of love. And I think that's how you get to a real deep level of love when you're actually looking at it and saying, Hey, this isn't okay. Like , this could be better. So when you talk about the love for the American dream, was it out of romance or was it out of necessity for survival?

8:45Boyah: Um, you know, I'm an, I'm a nomad. I mean, I belong to my father. I'm a, my father's son. My father said to me, when you are in someone else's house, you honor that person. Yeah. So I thought America honored me as being a guest. And I've always thought that driving on American highway, I even wrote a story about a lady who had my bike.

9:06Boyah: I don't wanna spoil the story, but it, you know, that's a true story, you know? Yeah. And I never. I'm a guest Americans love me. They allow me into this country. You know, I love America. I think I love America more than more than MAGA people or Trump people because, you know, I see America for what it is in order for me to tell to, you know, there's not gonna be any growth without people like us telling the truth to America and making sure America looks at herself in the.

9:34Boyah: So I really wrote this book from a place of it is almost a love letter, metaphorically to America telling the truth about America. So it can know that what black, the black children have been, you know, saying that about America is true because I have no, you know, I love America. I came into this country chasing home, chasing a country.

9:54Boyah: Chasing a place to belong, you know, and I was chasing American dream. I loved the green GRA grass. Everything in America was heaven. How I thought I was in heaven. Mm-hmm but then for me to discover what I discover, not just to discover what I discovered, but to write about it, you know, it's something significant. Yeah.

10:10Oti: So I think. Part of me when I was reading the book and going through some of the, or reading through the sum of the experiences you had, you, although moments were shockingly racist, that you didn't really see it that way. And that was continuously in my mind, just going. Oh, my God, you know, this is so bizarre that you'd think that, you know, you are young, you're taking it a moment and you, you are grateful to be there, like you said.

10:38Oti: So do you ever get like flashbacks or moments where you'd think that, oh my God, I would've handled this so differently. Or even in coming up experiences on how you'd handle such situations now?

10:49Boyah: Yes. Uh, there's a, there's a lot of flashbacks in my life because like I said, once I became an. And I start working and I see the cries of the people who look like me, highly educated human beings that cried in my office in my life everywhere.

11:04Boyah: You know, I've never, I've yet to see anyone happy who looks like me, then you, you tend to think about all the little things that happened to me in life. My life that I actually overlooked because I was so grateful to be not just to be in America, to be. Yeah. And to be driving how, and highway is a significant thing, you know, so those of us who survive war, we, we, we look at that experience as something more significant than anything else in life. But what I have discovered is racism is worse than war cause war is temporary. Racism is generational.

11:30KT: That actually answers one of the questions that I had while I was reading the book. Because you talk about. You know, trying to make sure that your brothers aren't growing up too fast and even like rap music.

11:53KT: Right. Even though in a lot of hip hop it's, it's, it's an expression. You know, you talk about writing as an expression and hip hop is an expression to the current state or the contemporary time in America. But you felt the need to, you know, pace that sort of learning with your brothers, even though on the other hand, you've experienced war. And I thought that was quite an interesting sort of dynamic that you introduced in the book.

12:17Boyah: Thank you. Yeah, I really, I, because my father may rest in peace, you know, uh, told me that I'm the, the, uh, I'm the son in the family. Mm. And so like, I've always looked at my life. Um, a father figure, you know, guide them, make sure they don't get in trouble.

12:35Boyah: And I thought their minds are not ready to consume or to listen to hiphop. And because I feel like the young rappers are writing about they're like reporters from their hood. Just like I could be a reporter from my. From my village, when there's some of the parts that I wrote about, there's a guy named Omar, you know, Omar is still alive.

12:56Boyah: You know, what I'm writing about is, you know, what we saw. So I thought Tupac and all these other young, uh, prodigy and Wangs, they were talking about their hood. Their experience. So I look at them as the reporters from their hood, but I, I didn't think that my, my brothers, my brothers were, were their minds were there to, to understand that their writing about their, their experiences.

13:18Boyah: I didn't want them to take in exactly what they're saying and, and become destructive. Um, so I wanted to separate their growth from what I have been exposed to in terms of hip hop. So what would

13:29Oti: you say the updated version of that American dream?

13:33Boyah: Uh, was what's the American dream, you said? Yeah, the American dream.

13:39Boyah: Um, I don't for coming to this country, the American dream was big to me. Mm. You know, uh, the American dream is something significant. You could do whatever the hell you want. Excuse my language. Uh, but in terms of becoming an American myself, The American is something American dream is something different.

13:58Boyah: I think for a black child, black child has to work harder and the chance of a black child be, you know, assuming that space, it is not as easy as a white child put it that way. And white child, black child has to be 10 times better. You know, look abroad Barack Obama, you know, none, no nothing came out of his life, no negative news.

14:19Boyah: And still he had a hard time, you know, govern you. You, you seen what happened even when he left something awful came out after him. Yeah. Uh, so I think it's, for me, it's, it's, it's in a grave. It's not as clear as it was before coming to this country. And I think, I think like if someone coming from Africa and they might be easier because they don't have all these.

14:42Boyah: You know, they have been exposed to the real America, but some child who's born in America, I think is harder for an African American child to believe before, before you do anything else, you gotta believe, right. To believe that they can actually compete and work and become that, you know, success. African success, you know, uh, part of the American dream it's harder.

15:05Boyah: So I don't know if I can answer this question, but for me, it's like, it's not as before, you know, I wish you could answer this question. 1993, when I came in, I wanted to be a doctor and you can still be a doctor, but, uh, the challenges are there and you have to, um, you know, it's, you gotta recognize it and prepare your. The challenges are greater,

15:26KT: perhaps I think, I think part of it is not necessarily a United dream. Right? There's the dream that's sold in Hollywood. There's the dream that showed on the screen. But I think what we start to realize when they talk about equality and justice for all, they mean. Whoever the forefathers were and everyone that looked like that for all of the white people.

15:47KT: Right. And I think for everyone else that isn't white in America, everyone else that is struggling is starting to wake up to the fact that all of these structures and all of these systems in place were never for us. Mm, you know what I mean? So maybe it's fragments of a different dream because this dream is for a very particular set of people. And we are just feeding into that machine. And you talk about that in your workplace, you are constantly having to fill the gaps of mediocrity. You know what I mean?

16:19Boyah: yes. Yes. I mean, I mean, I mean, for. An African born American like me, it took me 30 years to realize that. And also the gratitude kind of graze.

16:30Boyah: Yeah. It, it, it, it, it kind of blinds you from seeing the truth, you know? Uh, so it took me like 29 years to be exact, to know that what you just said is real. It is real. It might not be written in the books, but there's a two system here, one for the whites, one for the blacks. Yeah. And one, the one for the blacks in my culture, you tell people, you know, how you feel about them.

16:55Boyah: So I really thought that America would tell me straight up is how we feel about you, man. You know, I never thought that someone will hide and try to destroy me. And, you know, because in, in when you, when I was my grandmother, You know, you knew exactly where, what the water well is, you know, the herds, you know, the camels, you know, like the, the land that you belong to, you know exactly where your enemy.

17:19Boyah: You know, then if you have to go to war, you can go to war and if there's peace, there's peace. There's no, you know, secret about how people live, but, but in America they don't tell you any of that until it's too late until you, you, you, you go into depression or get. You know, die of COVID 19 because of so much stress. And if you don't have a job in this country, there's no way you can live. You know, you can't afford apartment, you can't afford home, you cannot afford, you cannot maintain relationship. Um, it's, it's um, it's a very, it is a self-destructing. Lifestyle. And I'm being honest with that. I'm not, always being honest,

17:38KT: but then you also have the term like missing white woman syndrome.

17:58KT: Like you see where the importance is or what people value in America based on what gets media attention. You know, there are places in America at the moment. That don't have safe drinking water indefinitely. Right. And that's because they're 80% black, so no one really wants to talk about it. Yeah. You know, even major news outlets.

18:16KT: Aren't talking about it right now and it's how much do we let other people care? You know what I mean? And it really, what I thought was really interesting. And even just talking through this in like interview as. You really are the conduit between, you know, your roots in Africa and also in America, because you are here trying to say, Hey, I love your America.

18:38KT: I need you to love me back. But also at the same time, because of cultural, you know, even with your mom, like you can't say like, you can't say shit because you should be grateful to be here. So how can you say treat me better when you should be grateful in the first place? It's a very. It's a, it's a it's, it's something that is very compelling. And I really enjoyed reading through the book.

19:02Boyah: Thank you. I mean, even, even my, my white friends who are highly educated. Yeah. Um, tell me that you wrote that book. Read it. Once you're in a refugee camp, like how dare you? You know? So it's almost as if you have absolutely no voice that you are super, you should be so grateful.

19:22Boyah: Yeah. You know, like there's nothing this country, if someone's gonna talk, you know, write a critical book like this, it's gotta be in a. On African Americans because who expect them, but you are different. You're African, you know, you're special, you know, and that's not, that is not true. You know, that is not true.

19:38Boyah: I am, I am no special than, than Derek, you know? And what, what happened to Derek waited me and I knew it and he, you know, so, and it's gonna happen to every 99% of the people, unless you. You comply the system and, and get used, you know, um, that, that's just the way it is. And, but, uh, we gotta challenge it. And then, and that's the reason why, uh, I wrote this book.

20:04Boyah: I wanted to make sure that America, I love you reciprocate the love. Black people love you. Reciprocate the love black people wrote, build this country. They continue to represent this country. And every field sports music, you know, black people are visible, acknowledge their pain, acknowledge us and create a system that's desirable for all the American children, not just for some. And, and, and that's what that is. That is the voice with which I wrote this book from.

20:33KT: I think part of the problem is. Like you can have your black pain, but we need, it needs to be marketable for white Hollywood. It needs to be marketable for white academia. And if you are speaking your pain and we're not profiting off it, and the lens is decentering whiteness, then what am I supposed to do with that?

20:53KT: I want, you know, like if you think about like in the nineties, All of the African films, but they're all white actors. Like, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm, like they need to be at the center. And obviously they talk about like the white savior sort of trope, like we need to get in on your pain so we can mark it off it. So if you are speaking with your full chest, And we're not there and you're aiming it at us. What do we get out of it, right?

21:17Boyah: Yeah. Yeah. You said it right. Um, but I, I, the black people are not a minority. We're not, you know, so I'm not, I didn't write this book from a position of minority. I, I wrote this book from position of I'm human being.

21:33Boyah: Who's equal to you. I love you. Love me. Let's make this country better. And that's what every black, you know, person in America wants. You know, we don't black people don't hate anyone. And, but we, we wanna make sure that our voices are heard and we're equal in the workplace and Hollywood telling our stories. And you know, this it's only gonna get better if, if. If that is recognized,

21:58KT: it was, it was interesting reading the book, cuz we were reading it obviously separately, but together at the same time and there was a moment that we had a little like discussion because you know, the whole notion of when you're an Africa, you are just African. But then as soon as you get inserted into like a Western country, like America, Australia, that's how I hear you. That's when the lens of blackness like is applied.

22:21Boyah: Yeah, because they tell you, you know, you, they, you know, when I, when I, as a writer, I always think about, uh, show don't tell, and America shows you, it does not tell you that you're black, but it shows you that you're black.

22:35Boyah: And you know, when you're shown again and again, and again, then ultimately you will capitulate and you will know your place. Yeah. You know, so without even talking about it, you'll just know it. Uh, and, and that's from a, from a. From a cultural cause I came this country as a teenager, so I knew my culture.

22:53Boyah: Um, um, my father told me, even in the book I write about that I am the son. Uh, there's nothing, there's no hierarchy. And you look at person in the eyes and tell them how you feel and they get respect to you. You have to earn your respect. And so, because I've already had a culture, you know, a set of culture inside of me.

23:13Boyah: Um, I had to, I just couldn't do, but resist. And the more I. The more, I became depressed. The more that I go into that space of no return. And so it's it's, and that, it's hard to be in that space where, you know, for sure you, you're not coming back, cause everything around you is destroyed. No job, none of that.

23:32Boyah: Well, what happens, you know, and you're just gonna die alone, uh, and, and a lot. And it's sad to say that, but it's true. It is true. And is racism is, is evil. It's something that should be challeng. And, you know, all of us should talk about this and confronted and child, you know, war is better. and I'm not saying that lightly cause I I'm a product of war and I hate war.

23:54Boyah: And a lot of my childhood friends died. Omar, who, who I writed by in the book is alive. Sometimes we, we talk to each other, actually he lives in a Australia is where he lives now. And so sometimes we talk about it and, and to this day, 30 years ago is still vivid in our head. What we have seen. So war is bad, but.

24:14Boyah: He doesn't lose sleep over that. I don't sleep over, lose over, um, lose, sleep over that, but racism yeah. Will drive you not to sleep. And so that's the reason why I said racism is 10 times worse should be eradicated in another

24:30Oti: interview. You mentioned that Rambo was your favorite right film before, um, the war.

24:36Oti: Uh, what would you, what would you be your favorite film now?

24:40Boyah: Um, my favorite film now. I haven't been watching films for a while, but, um, there's a film that I like Love Jones. Oh, love is my ultimate favorite

24:53KT: little bit of black joy, right?

24:53Boyah: Yes. Love Jones. My ultimate favor, but I, you know, in the war. Um, you know, all of us, I mean, you know, Rambo has done so much destruction, so much destruction in the world, especially third world countries.

25:07Boyah: Um, I, I hate it, but at the same time, it's part of my experience, cuz I've seen, uh, young people who mimicked Rambo in my childhood who died. So even though I hate the film now, but as a child, I loved it. And I, and I, as a child, I loved the kids who mimic Rambo because that was the, in the moment I wanted to be.

25:26Boyah: I wanted to defend my family. I wanted. I wanted to, you know, make sure that I become a fighter that, that celebrated because that's what was, was good at that particular moment. But when you come to a peaceful place and you come educated and you get to read, and so that's when you get to see the destructiveness of Hollywood in a poor countries. Um, so now I, now I can say I hate it, but cause again, it's part of my experience. So I, when I think about it, I think about it in terms of those young boys, Carrying, you know, machine guns and, you know, fighting in the war. It's a very tragic story.

25:47KT: Yeah. Cause I think at the end of the day, it's like there's entertainment, but if you're speaking on experiences, there needs to be some sort of custodianship of understanding. It's not just for the popcorn sort of filler, like people have lived through this stuff.

26:18Boyah: Yeah. And it's hard to understand. Through film. Yeah. It's not the same, you know, in the film you, it is like you enjoy it and you come outta here, talk about it in war. You don't talk about it. You know, you just get, you get to see your best friend shred into pieces and you have to pick up limbs and bury them, you know?

26:36Boyah: And then you, you have to forget about 'em quickly because you have no time to moan, to, you know, grieve. There's no grieving moment in the war zone. You have to move. You cannot show tears when you're a boy, you know? So that has been actually a blessing and a curse. Cause sometimes you need, you need tears to release. So, um, in the last 30 years I've been living here sometimes I do wanna cry over this evilness of racism, but I, then I cannot because I'm, I'm an, you know, my culture is not to cry.

27:06KT: Well, you can always call us. We can have a cry together. If you want. We can have a crying Connie and just have a list of things we'll cry about. Thank you so much for your time. Um, and you've, you've spoke about it throughout this interview as well. What I really appreciated about this book, you know, um, there, there are certain points that people hit when they talk about racism. Um, but what I really appreciated and not that I wasn't expecting, but you talked about physical health and how racism.

27:33KT: Physically, you know, can affect you. So I really appreciated that. Do you have any sort of final.

27:40Oti: I think it's an essential read for anyone and everyone who wants to just peel the veneer. That's been set up that you'd think that, oh, you know, we, they voted for Barack Obama. Racism is fixed. You know, anyone who thinks that, you know, for a lot of the Africans.

27:58Oti: Migrants who out there who experience such a stark contrast, be it in culture, even identity. Once they find themselves in a majority populated, uh, white country, you know, you get all this experiences laid out in such a beautiful way. And I think it just puts a lot of words, at least forming that either I was thinking, but I didn't know how to point up.

28:25Oti: And it's just a beautiful, beautiful book. Thank you. It's essential and it's needed and I'm glad. Thank you. Thank you. You know, and I'm glad that when you know, you, you might have had voices telling you that, oh, don't write it. Just be appreciative. And I think that's when we actually fail as a culture and as a people where we say nothing, we are appreciative because we've given the bare minimum. And we deserve better because at the end of the day, we are all human beings and I love that.

28:53Boyah: Beautiful said it. Thank you. Thank you. And I wanted to get a shout out to Alicia Brooks. She's the one actually who told me I was writing this for therapy for me, you know, like it was like I had to get it out, you know, writers.

29:08Boyah: Like me write about things that hurt them. And so I wrote, I write a vow about racism. I write about war, um, you know, American culture, Somali culture, African culture, and I must get a shout out to Alicia Brooks, my agent who, um, actually ask me, Hey, you know, I need to know what are you writing about this?

29:28Boyah: And please send it to me. And I, I, I, so shout out to Alicia Brooks, you know, for, um, encouraging me and believing in me and telling me, Hey, this is the book. You know, and, and now I'm proud that you, you know, you read the book, uh, this is my second interview. Thank you for inviting me really. I, I, I enjoy this, this, this interview really?

29:48Boyah: I do. I do. I see every, every, every black child living in the west Europe, America to read. So they, they, they know that they can speak up the human beings equal to any other human being. Um, um, I that's my, my, my wish. To make sure this book reaches to every single student so they can understand that they came from a place of love. They have culture. They are no, they're not. They're the son. So

30:18KT: all the way in Australia, we're here by your side. We're ready to fight with you. We're ready to cry with you. We're ready to laugh with you and fall in love and Love Jones. Like we're ready to have a great time with you. And we've had a great time today. Thank you. Um, do you want to, obviously, uh, America Made Me a Black Man is now available. Do you want to share your social media or where people can find you?

30:38Boyah: Yes. Um, I have Twitter. I have, I have, uh, Instagram, I have Facebook, um, the book, I think the book came out a couple days ago in the UK. Um, so basically Google will do the right thing. It's a Target in America. It's a Walmart. America is, uh, Barnes & Noble in America is almost every it's everywhere. Mm-hmm American. I, I, um, I believe in destiny. Destiny. It is Destin. I blame everything on destiny and this it is Destin for this book to come out and is Destin that we, we speak.

30:49KT: Um, uh, so it's thank you. Really. Congratulations again on your book and thank you so much.

31:12Boyah: Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. And it's a pleasure to meet you both. I didn't get your name. Do you mind if I say, ask your name? You didn't tell me your names. Oh,

31:21Oti: I'm Oti and KT. KT.

31:21Boyah: Okay. Pleasure to meet you. Thank you. Thank you so much.

31:27KT: It's been wonderful having you here. Everyone go out, buy the book. It's an essential, essential read.