Insecure – Loser Into-Lawrence

Full transcript of Insecure – Loser Into-Lawrence.

0:00KT: Hey. Welcome back to another week of For Your Reference. Oti is our quiz master this week with the phrase on Your Phrase or Mine.

0:11Oti: Alright. So this week's phrase is from Kenya. Oh, shout out. So going back local so here it is. Slippery ground does not recognize a king.

0:28KT: I will take the revolutionary perspective and say that if people are suffering, they're not really concerned with what's going up on high. They're just trying to make it through their day to day struggles. They're not really concerned about the powers that be or the powers that oppress.

0:49Oti: Nah, mate. It means even the most powerful people are just human deep down.

0:57KT: Fake news. Alright. Well, let's get on to another episode. Hey, guys. Welcome to another week of For Your Reference podcast. Hope you've been well. Hope whoever you've been having romantic entanglements with have been well as well Mhmm. If you'll pardon the pun. Today is my pick. That it is. It is. And we will be talking about the HBO series called Insecure through way of our queen, Issa Rae.

1:57Oti: And Lawrence. Yep.

1:59KT: Well, he can be a queen, I guess. Yeah. The queen of the no one. She he can be a Daenerys.

2:07Oti: I'll take that.

2:09KT: Okay. I'm sure Lawrence takes it as well. Exactly the way you would. So we're talking about Insecure today, HBO show that came out in 2016 from Jo-Issa. That's her real name. Did you know that? Jo-Issa? Yeah. Jo-Issa Rae Diop.

2:27Oti: Oh, that's super African. Yeah. Yeah. She's from Senegal. Yeah. Just you can tell.

2:36KT: You're just you're just recognizing your people? Yeah. Oh, okay. So let's quickly go through the characters of Insecure, but I do wanna capture off the entity that is Issa Rae. I think I've tried to mention her as much as possible throughout our whole podcast, even more than I mentioned Tina Fey. But I definitely wanna just capture off the characters, and then let's talk a little bit about Issa Yeah. As well. So Insecure, I guess, a brief sort of nutshell, follows the lives of, you know, young,

3:15KT: strong black women in their mid twenties venturing into their thirties.

3:21Oti: I'd say late twenties.

3:25KT: Sure. Well, she does reach her thirtieth birthday somewhere along the way Yeah. I think in season three. Well, in any case, young working professionals just trying to figure out life. Super relatable. Right? Yeah. And so you've got Issa, obviously, and she may regret it now, but she did keep her name as the main character for this show. At the point of the time of the show, she is in a relationship with Jay Ellis' character, Lawrence. She's also got her ride or die best friend, Molly, played by Yvonne Orji.

4:06Oti: Yep.

4:07KT: Was Nigeria, I think. Yeah. Right? Mhmm. You're feeling all the melanin. We've also got later on in the series, you start to see she's got, like, a close knit girlfriend group. So you've got Kelli, who's played by Natasha Rothwell Mhmm. Who was heavily involved in the writing for season one of Insecure. And congrats to Natasha Rothwell because she also got a show ordeal with HBO.

4:34Oti: Nice.

4:35KT: Yeah. Nice. Right? We stan. And then you've also got Amanda Seales' character.

4:43KT: Who also just released her

4:45KT: stand up on HBO, I think. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So you've got Tiffany. So you've got that, you know, that sort of close group. You know, you're you're closer to other people, so Molly's definitely her ride or die in that sort of aspect. She currently works at a not for profit. So she's not necessarily her best friend at work, but someone she has quite constant interactions with, and she does start to form some sort of bond with throughout the series is Frieda Mhmm. Who's played by Lisa Joyce.

5:18KT: And you've got a whole slew of other characters, but the main sort of foundational characters are there. You've also got Daniel, who I am I am so sorry. Ya Y'lan Noel? Do you wanna validate? Do you wanna fact check me?

5:38Oti: Yeah. Y'lan Noel. I don't know. I would say that.

5:38KT: Okay. If

5:43KT: if our residential Oti pronounce it that way, then I'm sure we're on to a winner. And Chad, let's let's make sure we reserve some time to talk about Chad today played by Neil Brown Jr. He's great. He is good. So those are the characters that you have. And, again, they're just trying to forge their way through life and, you know, not settling for the monotony of Lawrence. I just needed to get that snide in before we started the episode. So that's the cast,

6:15KT: and there's there's also Dro and, you know, some other characters as well. If you if this is your first time visiting For Your Reference, hi. Welcome. Welcome to our handful of listeners. We love to have you here. The I guess it's always good to preface that we always have spoilers all the time. Yep.

6:37Oti: Full spoilers

6:39KT: straight off the bat. It we're just tripping. It's it's all about spoilers. Yeah. So I guess just be aware of that. If you haven't watched Insecure and you've got acute amount of time, you know, you've got a long weekend or, you know, you just wanna ignore your boss. Actually, no, you'll need to watch it. You can listen to us, but you probably can't watch a show while you're at work unless you really don't care that much. But, yeah, definitely watch Insecure if you haven't, and then come back,

7:08KT: you know, pour yourself some wine, get some cheese, get some snacks, and then you can follow along with us on this episode.

7:16Oti: So where do you want us to start off with this?

7:16KT: Well, I just wanna talk about Issa generally.

7:21KT: Issa started off with I think it was called the Dorm Diaries when she was at uni. She kind of put together, like, some quick sort of videos. And I guess, foundationally, her stories were always coming from a unique perspective. Mhmm. So, you know, these were the stories in the lives of African American uni students. Mhmm. Right? So that was quite iconic and that was quite unique, but it it was pretty much on a small sort of scale. And then you have Awkward Black Girl that came out in 2011.

8:00KT: I stumbled across Issa, and I'm not sure how I would call it serendipity. But, you know, For Your Reference, we do love a good YouTube moment. So we're all over YouTube. Well, not us personally, but we do like consuming a lot of YouTube. And somewhere along the way, I came across Issa in, like, 2013. So not when Awkward Black Girl actually came out, but I was definitely riding the wave quite early. And I really I really liked it. I I didn't really know what it's like to be an African American woman in America,

8:36KT: but I really enjoyed watching her miniseries. And I also I guess it came at the perfect time because YouTube was was much better than the YouTube that it is today. And what I mean by that is you have people that have stories to tell that are given the platform to be able to tell them without any sort of interference of network executives or of sponsorships. You know, you just had really great content on YouTube. So it it was great that Issa had that platform to be able to tell these stories on Awkward Black Girl.

9:18KT: And it's also very inspiring for me to see that, you know, she didn't start off on YouTube because she was already she already had bodies of work at that point. But it was so nice to see someone that I stumbled across on YouTube has now grown into the star that we always knew that she was.

9:39KT: Right?

9:39Oti: I I really didn't know anything about Issa Rae until I started watching Insecure.

9:39KT: Blasphemy. How dare you?

9:39Oti: Yeah. So I I went into this show completely unbiased and I feel like that's

9:51KT: I'm unbiased as well. Completely objective.

9:55Oti: Well, we'll see about that, won't we? Yeah.

9:59KT: But, you know, it's nice. It's nice to see YouTubers that you've been supporting for years make it big.

10:07Oti: Yeah.

10:07KT: It

10:08KT: seldom does happen, so it's it's good when it does. But let's go back to something more exciting and more happy. Let's talk about Issa. Let's talk about Insecure. Mhmm. I don't think I could run and tell you quick enough that we needed to watch Insecure as soon as it got announced. Yep. I was so excited.

10:30Oti: Yep. I I I didn't have any feelings towards it because I didn't know any of these people. And your excitement to watch it is what made me just sit there and see how it went. And the pilot episode was great. I saw the capability of what the show could be, and it just sunk in. And was like, oh, this this is quite a great different from what

10:57KT: it was different because it offered another story in the sea of monotonous not necessarily monotonous, but the same story being told. This was a different one.

11:10Oti: To some extent, would you say it's completely different from what Girls is? Like Girls, Lena Dunham's Girls because I remember watching the first season and it's almost not not completely, like, could I could you could see my face right now. I could I could draw parallels to Girls in Insecure.

11:31KT: The I guess the lowest common denominator that you can draw between the two shows is that it's about young 20 year olds trying to make it in the city. That's pretty much it. Writing wise, stylistically, it's quite different. And what I meant by stories being told, meant from an African American perspective.

11:51Oti: Cool. Point taken. You're welcome. I was just trying to see how you'd respond to that.

11:59KT: No. It's it's fine. I've I actually watched Girls. I think I definitely watched the first season of it. Yeah. I I'd watched the first season and I think I just stopped from there. Well, Donald Glover was in it as well. And maybe he was only in in the second season, so maybe I watched more than one season.

11:59Oti: Oh, I have not watched when he was there then.

11:59KT: And Donald Glover also shows up in Awkward Black Girl as well.

12:22Oti: Oh, does he?

12:22KT: And that's how I know that I love Issa because I geeked out as well. Childish Gambino. Come on, guys. Yeah. So it was it was just nice. It was nice to see that in Awkward Black Girl that she was awkward, and she did have the moment and the triumphs that, you know, hopefully, us watching would have one day. And a lot of it was influenced and there were parallels that were drawn between Awkward Black Girl and Insecure. So I was in for a good time.

12:54Oti: Yeah. Yeah. And I I I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. It was good for what it was for sure. And that's what makes it great. Yeah. But we had completely different views of what transpired in the first season.

13:08KT: Right? Like Okay. I'm I'm taking my earrings off. I'm I'm pulling my sleeves up. Let's go. You wanna go toe to toe with the champ? Yeah. So so tell me tell me about because we're introduced to Issa and Lawrence's relationship. Well, the interesting thing is we both even the way we describe the situation is completely different. So do do you wanna go first?

13:08Oti: No. You go first.

13:08KT: Okay. Well, after I say it, you'll change your ways and you won't even need to explain.

13:37Oti: You wish.

13:39KT: We're not gonna go through a play by play of the actual plot, more so developments that happen along the way. So specifically, we're going to talk about Issa and Lawrence's relationship. Mhmm. And the cheating that happens. Yep. K? In in no sort of semblance would I condone cheating on your significant other. Let's make that very clear. Feel free to listen to our episode of Money Heist, La Casa de Papel, because we definitely cover that along with other themes. But I definitely don't condone cheating. However,

14:20KT: I do believe that a picture does need to be painted in regards to Issa and Lawrence's relationship.

14:27Oti: Okay. Paint that picture for our audience.

14:30KT: I'm I'm gonna Bob Ross this shit. Don't you worry. So we have Issa. So she she's working in a not for profit, which must be very fulfilling. You know, I've I've dabbled in not for profit world, so I understand. But at the same time, it wasn't it's not holistically fulfilling for her. So you do start to see that, if not in the first episode, definitely through the first season. Career wise, she's having a crisis. Her relationship isn't necessarily a crisis. It's kind of the opposite way around.

15:07KT: It's complacent is literally the best way to describe it. Just complacent. So let me continue to paint this picture. Paint on. Paint on. She she's in a job that's lukewarm. She's in a relationship that's lukewarm. Her man, Lawrence, has had this amazing idea, and he hasn't even drafted a business plan. So he's been bumming around for four years, as far as we know within the context of the show, doing absolutely nada, not even getting a side job because he believes that he's been he's above that, and he will get the perfect job

15:51KT: once he gets the perfect job. And he didn't think that it was a problem, that he was not that not that there's anything wrong with the woman being financially, you know, the breadwinner in a heterosexual relationship. But just as an entity, just as a unit, if you're not pulling your weight and you don't feel bad about it, who are you? What are you contributing to? What are you bringing to my life? So Issa's been dealing with that for four years.

16:25KT: Not even after one year did Lawrence think, oh, shit. I better get my act together or, you know, let me go and get a job at a takeout, like a fast food joint just to get some money so I can contribute so I feel better that I'm not just wholly relying on Issa. Right? Day in, day out, becoming complacent. And I I think he also forgets Issa's birthday.

16:48Oti: Does he? Yeah.

16:51KT: I'm pretty sure he does because Issa goes out with Molly to that Ethiopian restaurant, and then she comes home another.

17:02Oti: Oh.

17:03KT: But that's what I'm saying. It gets to that point.

17:08Oti: It gets to that point. Then again, he's got a lot in his mind trying to get his

17:08KT: Excuse me, sir.

17:14KT: This is a dignified this is a dignified event of discourse. I will not have you besmirching Issa, let alone interrupting my perfect argument. I I know what you're going to say with your futile rebuttals. I know what you're going to say, but he did have a glow up. He did get a job. Right? Why did it take and, again, I I in this case, I am attributing Issa's cheating. Why did it take a event like that for Lawrence to get his shit together?

17:53KT: So so let's just let's just linger. Let's just linger on that just like Lawrence was lingering for four fucking years. Alright. It's marinating. It's marinating. Don't worry. Yes. Yeah. So I'm I'm not saying that Issa was right to cheat, but she was numb. Like, she was flatlining.

18:12Oti: So you think it was justified?

18:14KT: I'm not saying she was justified. I'm just saying she was flatlining. There was no pulse in her. And then, you know, let's not take away the significance of Daniel's character or lack of in this particular case. He knew Issa at a time that she was passionate about music. He knew that Issa and he had similar sort of dreams, but you don't have to have similar sort of dreams, but at the same time, he actually encouraged her. So I'm just talking broad series. He encouraged Issa to pursue that.

18:54KT: He actually got involved and was interested in her work.

19:00Oti: Yeah.

19:01KT: Right? Mhmm. So I'm I'm just saying, if you lay it all out and you look at all the pieces It was written in the stars. Do do I need to continue? Are you done?

19:21Oti: Yeah. Quite done so. Yeah.

19:24KT: So how how do how do you see it? Because I feel like and I don't even know where this comes from, and and maybe we don't have the time and we don't have a couch to get into this. But you really, really felt so strongly that you needed to defend Lawrence. So I wanna hear from your perspective because I was taking it not just from someone that stans Issa and Issa's excellence. It how dare you? I was actually just taking from the point of view, if I was Issa in this situation

20:01KT: and I had a man that was complacent and willing and willfully doing shit all and not even trying to get a job because he's waiting for his, like, million dollar idea. No, sir. No bueno, Muchacho.

20:17Oti: Alright. So he already had his million idea written down. Like, he knew what he wanted to do. He and this

20:17KT: He didn't even have a business plan. That was made quite clear.

20:17Oti: It's more

20:17KT: Sorry. Sorry. I I will let you dig your own hole.

20:17Oti: It's more during the incubation period of his idea in him trying to develop the the nitty gritties of what this app would work. You know?

20:17KT: Erlich Bachman

20:41KT: had a better incubator in Silicon Valley.

20:44Oti: Well, all I'm saying is, remember, when we first met, I was a I was a freelancer. Right? Not even a freelancer. I had my own company and doing my own thing. Yep. And I know how hard it is to get something off the ground. And I'm not gonna blame Lawrence for trying to get it right before he tries to launch it out to the world. Because once you put it out to the ether, like, it's just there's no really getting it if it's crap. I understand.

21:14Oti: Of how many betas or how many versions you roll out. Like, it's just you have to get it right. You have to get it to a certain point where if you release it, has to be good to some degree. Yeah. So I'm not blaming him for staying on it or sitting on it. It's like those writers who have who who write their novels or write their books, and they just keep it locked

21:37Oti: and scared exposing it to the world until it's completely perfect.

21:37KT: You're one step away from attributing him to some sort of Beethoven. Like, he's some sort of

21:37Oti: I'm not. I'm not. Lawrence is smart.

21:49Oti: Lawrence is is is is well learned. And he's

21:49KT: Oh, come on.

21:49Oti: He is learned. No. Not just some bloke off the street.

22:00KT: Okay. We'll get back to the cheating. Even when he actually got a job, he's was it called? Whoop de whoop? His app? Yeah. Even that didn't get traction. So you can't tell me he's a learned person. He's probably How does it mean if his I would say, dude, I would say Lawrence is mediocre at best because he's never really mediocre at best. Yeah. And that's okay. He's mediocre at mediocre.

22:31Oti: I would argue Lawrence is What made you hope for all the black men living out there with a dream.

22:31KT: But what made him a savant

22:39KT: in engineering? What what was it? What what was he? Was he an engineer? What was he?

22:39Oti: He's a developer, and he's

22:46Oti: he's he's got this mind. He's young. He's got this fresh ideas of what he sees that would work out in the market. And granted, waiting four years before it could be released, it got passed by the time without him actually revisiting and revising some of his concepts. That's his fault. Right? But we need to take this thing into perspective.

22:46KT: I hope my sigh was audible.

22:46Oti: Lawrence is a young black man.

22:46KT: Yes.

22:46Oti: Right? Mhmm. Who's gone through the same struggles as every black man in the neighborhood. Right?

23:23KT: Okay. I'm I'm with you, but you might lose me in a second.

23:23Oti: And he's got a dream.

23:29Oti: He knows what he wants to do, which can which is more than more most black most people are there. Right?

23:37KT: Some people are just taking life as it is is what you're saying?

23:37Oti: He's well educated.

23:37KT: Educated. What has he done that's substantial in his career? The problem that he has is because he's never really what do you need to do? You need to fail fast and fail often. Right? He kept this idea. So he thought he was the bee's knees.

24:03Oti: Because he thought he had a lady to put it down like

24:03KT: Hang on, sir.

24:03Oti: While while take care of this, Just carry me for a bit.

24:03KT: Sir, I'm going to have our executive producer, our dog, escort you out of this room until you calm down.

24:17KT: You it's funny how, like, ten minutes ago, you were saying that I'm not gonna be objective. And here you are holding the banner as the president of the Lawrence Hive.

24:28Oti: No. All I'm saying is Lawrence thought

24:33Oti: he had a lady willing to support him.

24:33KT: No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Fine. Fine. Fine. So he had he had that stability because Issa was, you know, paying most of the bills. I I would say all, but let's just be fair and say, shoot, Issa was paying most of the bills. Okay? So he's being supported by Issa. He's got a good woman, you know, behind him or beside him. Right? Mhmm. Where in his evolution is he working on his actual idea?

25:07KT: That's the problem that he has. He needs to bring it into fruition. Let me go back to my point. He needs to bring his idea into fruition. Things aren't going to be perfect the same time, but you also need to be in touch with the market. I don't think he networked in any way possible. So when you're when you're in your little suite, you think you've got the best idea around.

25:32Oti: Right? Mhmm.

25:34KT: There's a there's like a Chinese saying, a frog a frog can't see past the well. I think that's a Your Phrase or Mine that I I butchered and I bastardized. But essentially, what that means is, you know, you think you're the king of the well because you don't know that there's a whole world out there. Mhmm. And that's Lawrence's problem. I'm not going for all of the black men or African American men. What I'm saying about is Lawrence.

26:00KT: Right? He had an idea. Woo. Cool for you. You know, you are steps ahead of most people. Most people just take life as it comes. Yeah. Right? Or most people just, you know, sit around, take a handout, and complain about stuff, which he kind of was. But let let's just leave him alone from that aspect. Okay? He had an idea, which is inspiring. It it's good for people to dare to dream. Right? But also at the same time, he didn't work for it. He didn't work for that idea.

26:31KT: And let's let's go back to you. You know, you said that you you had you had a company, and you still have a company with your buddies. Right? Even when you were waiting for big projects or even when you were working on big projects, didn't you have to do shitty side jobs just to pay the bills? Yeah. Exactly.

26:51Oti: Lawrence was wasn't at that level yet. You need there. This is some guy from Inglewood in a bungee guy from Kenya

27:02KT: struggling to make a shilling.

27:05KT: Can I just say, you need to value yourself more because the fact that you compare yourself to Lawrence makes me very sad because you are much better than Lawrence?

27:05Oti: I'm not comparing myself to Lawrence. You know what you know what the problem is? Issa thought he she was way better than Lawrence. Remember what she said? Obviously. Like, she had to settle? She had to settle for Lawrence?

27:27KT: At that moment, he was in tracksuits eating cereal around dinner time and forgot her birthday. Still, she thought she was a hot shit.

27:36Oti: When it comes down, she doesn't really have much in her life. Right?

27:40KT: She's not done She has a job. She's getting paid. Barely is abundant compared to what Lawrence was getting.

27:49Oti: Well, we we know

27:49KT: He was just sitting around with hand up fucking ass. That's all he was was costing her a job.

27:49Oti: She wasn't really pioneering

27:56Oti: anything.

27:56KT: I'm I'm not even talking about career ambitions. Yeah. Right? Because Lawrence didn't even have that either. Right? He didn't even work hard for what he wanted. You think a dream is going to fruition itself just because you will it to? No. Coming up with a plan. Hard. No. No. No, sir. You need to work hard. But no. Really, if if you're trying to succeed and thrive in the tech sort of industry, why was he not surrounding himself with like minded people? Because he would have found out quite quite early

28:31KT: that his idea wasn't unique. And the perspective that he was bringing wasn't very unique either. His idea was a dime a dozen, and he sat on that for years.

28:44Oti: He has no one to blame for himself but that like, for that. I agree with that. Like, he's he's

28:44KT: Then why would you argue? Saying that he's he's not culpable for anything.

28:44Oti: Okay. Like, some of this shit is his fault. He's the cuckold.

28:58KT: But

29:00Oti: Issa I feel like Issa from the get go just looked for that excuse to cheat on him. Like, she was ready. No. No. No. You can't tell me that shit with Daniel was just a had thought about she just she was just waiting for that right man. Like, that man will just drop the panties, like, just and that was Daniel. Because it didn't take much, did it? One night at the club, bang, done. She just needed that guy that she knew

29:28Oti: and had chemistry with, and that shit would have happened sooner if Daniel was just had her legs open ready for her dick to slide in.

29:28KT: And this this goes back to an argument that we had while we were watching Insecure. And you were saying that at least we have at least we have a story about a black man. And I'm like, no. We've gotten to a point where the story should be better. You shouldn't have dumb characters like him or at least don't puff him up to be. He has a whole story. Lawrence.

30:00KT: He has a really?

30:02Oti: Well, something is well, not completely, but all I'm saying is, since when have we seen a character like Lawrence, a black young man with a dream who's well educated, who knows what he wants in life, who's not slinging drugs, who's not doing anything like that. Uh-huh. Like, he's he's capable.

30:24KT: He's capable. He's not capable because he didn't do anything for four years.

30:24Oti: Mate, as soon as as soon as

30:30Oti: you know when you know when you needed that push? Lucky just needed that push. Sometimes you just need that push to get your head to get your priorities in order. It can come in all sorts of ways. It can be someone cheating on you. It could be you being fired from your work, but to get something off the ground, there's always that monumental push that you need, whether physically or psychologically.

30:53Oti: And Issa's cheating was that for Lawrence. Like, he was like, okay. Bitch, I'm done. Now I need to get my shit in order. And that's what he did. He went out, got a job, and killed it. But it's not saw his value. And the fact that he's a black young black man who has perspective and has a pulse on what on what the younglings out there are thinking makes him more unique.

31:15KT: Is he like the Xavier of the world? He can just read people's minds? Yeah. No, sir.

31:22Oti: No, sir. No. I'm just saying. Do not It's been so long since you had such a character being portrayed. You know? Like, in terms of a black person Yes. Who who can I think of out of the top of my head who's as in terms something rooted to reality that's sort of Lawrence esque? And I can't think of any.

31:42Oti: Not not off the top of my head at least.

31:42KT: So because there isn't a portrayal of a smart black man, you're just going to take him by default?

31:50Oti: Not taking by default, but it shows the struggle. The struggle is real, mate. Yeah. And Lawrence has his faults. But that was self imposed. They did that for four years. But in terms of character development,

31:50KT: isn't watching the same show, or did you watch the Lawrence Hive edition?

31:50Oti: Because saying it's

32:07KT: I don't no. I I genuinely don't understand

32:11KT: where you're coming from.

32:11Oti: All I'm saying is, like, you know how many young black developers who are out there thinking they're not good enough to do their thing, straining their shit and settling for doing hospitality kind of work and not thinking that they're good enough to put themselves out there and and and battle it out with the rest of the community. Like, Silicon Valley is super white. I don't think well,

32:37KT: it's not just super white. There are other demographics there. True. You've got Asians, you've got Southeast Asians.

32:37Oti: Well, but it's it's it's

32:46Oti: in in in in melanin a bit in terms of black representation.

32:51KT: I guess the the point of this conversation, if that's what you wanna call this, is we all come with our frame of reference. If you'll pardon the pun, maybe we need to rename our podcast For Frame of Reference. And you've got that lens, right? You are attributing everything that you want to be seen in the world into the character of Lawrence. And I don't think that's fair because cue the corny music, you are leaps and bounds more successful, more driven, and more ambitious than Lawrence.

33:33KT: What you what you actually how you actually view Lawrence as a character in Insecure

33:37KT: is not actually the way that he is.

33:37Oti: You know what? I take those four years of him not doing anything and being a bum. Mhmm. I'm not taking it literally. Like, I'm seeing it if if I was to overlay it in in reality, it would be you doing your nine to five casually not being happy and being stuck just being a drone. You know, we watched Office Space just the other day Yes. And it showed you like the mundanity of a nine to five work where you're not happy and where the

34:07Oti: craziest things happen and you go through life, you coast through life Yes. Without really being part of life. Yes. So that's what the four years represents in in this Insecure world. Like, it's not really just him being a bum. Okay. It's him coasting through life without tapping into his capabilities and his abilities to actually succeed as a young black man in the tech world.

34:07KT: Excuse me. This isn't Transformers.

34:33KT: You can't you literally no. No. No. You literally the the you prefaced it with, I imagine this being. Nah, man. We're we're watching. We're talking about the show. It's not in your fantasy land. You wanna pick you wanna pick and choose which parts of the show. We're talking about the show. And you you keep saying the monotony of nine to five. He motherfucker didn't have a nine to five. Well No. No. Right? So if we're going to have a civilized conversation about Lawrence and his ambition,

35:11KT: then you need to work with the material. You can't just be

35:11Oti: No. I'm into it. Like, I'm not taking it at face value.

35:11KT: Dude, you're not even reading into it because it's not that. You're doing your own pick a path. I'm just picking and choosing. We are not going to get anywhere, and Issa is not coming back with Insecure until next year. Yeah. So we thought this might be a good time to talk about Insecure.

35:39KT: We might just need to leave this because I think we're going to miss out on a lot of other characters. We're not even the relationship podcast. But I'm sure if someone has enough time, you can see our foundation crumbling just from this conversation. You don't need to defend every black man.

35:55Oti: I'm not defending every black man. I'm just defending Lawrence.

35:59KT: Okay. Sorry. Let let me repeat that. You don't have to defend every shit black man. God.

36:08Oti: If you bro, though. Like

36:11KT: Especially if you're doing shit all. Fucking scrub. Okay. Let let's just let's just leave it off on that. There is one more thing I do wanna mention about Lawrence and also Issa. But if you've enjoyed this unraveling conversation, listen to our Black Panther episode because a lot of talk about black significance and, you know, strong or weak sort of men characters. Go and check out that episode if you wanna hear us fighting around the world with Tugger. That's a South Park reference. The last thing I wanted to mention is,

36:55KT: you know, when we when we watch things, as you can probably imagine, this is literally what happens while we watch things, This this whole of frivolity, salaciousness. What happened when they came from Coachella, Beychella, and Tiffany and Issa were in the convenience store. Do you want to explain to our listeners what happened?

37:18Oti: And she saw Lawrence. Right?

37:21KT: Yes. Was it that simple? What were the reactions in our household?

37:26Oti: Oh, happy because we've seen Lawrence after how many episodes of him not being on the show, and those talks of Lawrence being dropped from the show. And I thought that was completely ridiculous seeing that Lawrence is such a big part of the story that is Issa. Okay, brother. You cannot tell the Issa Rae story without Lawrence being there.

37:48KT: You cannot tell the Issa story. The same way you can't tell the Beatles story without the Yoko story. Olivesay. Wanna go? Do you wanna go? Do want say yes.

38:01Oti: What made Issa try and try harder to change her life? That was because of what she saw Lawrence as. Like, Lawrence had already moved on. He was killing it, and she was like, oh my god. What am I doing with my life? I need to do some more. And that was because of Lawrence. This shit wouldn't have happened if Lawrence wasn't in the picture. It's not because of Daniel. Daniel is out there. Issa is trying to make Daniel a better person. Like, Daniel's stuck

38:29Oti: doing the same shit. I'm being scared because he doesn't want to ask a friend for help. Meny players, it's all because of Lawrence. It should be called the Lawrence show

38:42Oti: with Issa Rae being a supporting act.

38:42KT: Well, you're more than welcome to start that podcast, and then I can live out my dream of talking about Daniel Kaluuya as a solo podcast.

38:53Oti: Oh god.

38:53KT: But seriously, though, I

38:56KT: just feel that Jay Ellis is not going to win any awards. Let's make that very clear.

39:05Oti: Just because people are underappreciated.

39:08KT: Let my me find out. You have a secret blog post about Jay Ellis and the Lawrence Hive. Let's leave this. Okay?

39:17Oti: Cool. Let's look about

39:20KT: Do do you feel do you feel like a big man? Do you feel proud of yourself?

39:24Oti: Yeah. Well, I'm I'm just saying. I'm just saying I'm pointing out the

39:24KT: It's fine. You've said a lot.

39:24Oti: I'm also trying to point out the flaws in Issa. She's not perfect. She's far from it.

39:24KT: I didn't say she was perfect.

39:24Oti: And even her relationship with Molly. Like, you could see. In fact, this is where I have qualms

39:42Oti: with Molly.

39:42KT: So what was everything else that we just heard?

39:48KT: A little qualms?

39:48Oti: Well, Molly is super successful. Right? Yes. And she's Issa's best friend. Mhmm. But she's left Issa just coast through life without doing shit. And what kind of friend is that?

39:48KT: Okay. Is she responsible for Issa?

39:48Oti: Yeah. But you have to pull some you have to pull someone up on bullshit. Right? Because Molly does nothing for Issa.

40:19KT: Yeah. Do wait. Do you mean, like, the fact that she has such a successful career and Issa doesn't? Yeah. Like mean that as a friend, she should be giving her more advice? Like, what do mean? More advice. Like, pull a sister up.

40:31Oti: If you're successful, pull someone up with your level.

40:34KT: Wait. When you say successful, are you talking career wise?

40:34Oti: Yeah. Career wise.

40:34KT: But that's what Issa wanted to do. After how long? After three to work in a not for profit.

40:44KT: So what what's wrong with that? I don't know. Are you saying success is corporate?

40:44Oti: I'm not saying success is corporate, but you can clearly tell Issa is struggling. Right? She wasn't happy even at the not for profit.

40:44KT: Yeah. But at the time before she cheated,

40:58KT: she didn't really want much more out of life. She was numb but I don't think she really cared to, you know, suck the marrow out of life if you will. I don't think I don't think she was at that level. You know, as as we get to, you know, the end of season two and even season three, you start to see that Issa has a pulse again. Right?

41:22Oti: And she Brought back by Lawrence. Yeah.

41:27KT: We are not going to get through this episode if you

41:27Oti: It was just a throwaway comment. It it bent like

41:27KT: It was a throwaway character. You're welcome. We're here every week, guys. No. No, sir. We let's he is the Voldemort. Okay? Let's not mention him because we're not gonna get through anything else in Insecure.

41:50Oti: Alright. So so Molly as a character. Yes. She has these rules of

41:58Oti: the kind of man that she wants to be.

41:58KT: No. Let's let's let's just capture off on the career. Because arguably, we all have that one friend that can do so much better career wise, but they just don't. Right? Isn't it So where does your responsibility for that friend end?

41:58Oti: As a friend, just tap a shoulder and be like, mate, you're wasting your life.

41:58KT: Yeah. And if they don't listen, what do you do?

41:58Oti: Just tap her every single time.

41:58KT: For your personally, do you do that?

42:29Oti: Yeah. If I have a bum of a friend, I would let them know, man, you you you need to get your life sorted.

42:36KT: Well, you're a bum of a man, and I'm letting you know that Lawrence is also a bum of a man. Oh, dear. So I I I I guess we just have two different perspectives on that. I really don't think it's Molly's volition or it's her responsibility as a friend to pull Issa on that professionally because at that time, she really care.

43:03KT: But, you know, even throughout the series, there were at least two big fights between Issa and Molly where they did pull each other up on each other's shit. Right? Yeah. Was it first fight when she told Molly to go to therapy? Yeah. It was at the fundraising Mhmm. Yeah. Where Daniel showed up as well. Yeah. And even when they were fighting, Molly was still that ride or die bitch helping to distract Daniel. So

43:30KT: I guess maybe while you're falling, maybe Molly won't pull you up on it. But just before you hit rock bottom, she's right there.

43:30Oti: Yeah. But Issa is super judgmental, though.

43:30KT: Wow. Wow. If I knew this was going to be the Red Wedding for Issa,

43:48KT: I wouldn't have allowed this.

43:48Oti: She's such a judgmental fan for someone who's not even gotten her life sorted. Like, bitch, please. Look at yourself first before you start giving opinions on other people's lives.

43:48KT: Is is anyone else not judgy in this show? Why are you coming for my girl?

43:48Oti: I'm not I'm not coming I'm just saying, like, her character is is has obvious flaws, like,

44:11Oti: being

44:11KT: Oh, okay. Okay. So she she have obvious flaws and other people don't like Voldemort?

44:11Oti: No. Just they have subtle flaws that

44:11KT: Oh my god. This is I will turn this ship around, sir. Okay. Let's let's let's no. You okay. Let's you can't even talk about Issa now. You don't even deserve this show. You don't you don't even deserve this show.

44:36Oti: Issa doesn't oh, yeah.

44:39KT: I think no. You no.

44:43Oti: We love Issa.

44:45KT: So before we capture off Molly, because we do need to cover some more characters in this podcast sort of format, I just wanted to touch on Molly and her relationships. Oh. So Yvonne Orji, in her interviews about Molly, she tried to explain it that, you know, Molly comes from a very successful sort of lawyer career. If I do a, the result will be b. So if I put in this work to go out and put myself out there dating wise, results should be B. Right? So that's what

45:27KT: Yvonne was saying in interviews about Molly's character. I take up qualms with that. In an ordinary world, yes, that's true. Right? That's a very logical approach to things. Molly wasn't that. Right? She had an idea of the man that she wanted, but then she went for other different type of men. Yeah. Right? Yep. It's like know what you're getting yourself into

45:57KT: and know what you want.

45:57Oti: Even when she got a good man, she found fault.

46:02KT: Yeah. I can't remember the guy's name. He was was he in season one? And then we saw him later on in season three when they were going to watch movies. He had one sexual experience with a man. Yeah. I can't remember his name. But that guy, right, I really didn't like how Molly was so judgmental with that.

46:25Oti: Yeah. He thought the guy was gay. Right? Because he had one sexual experience with a man. Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. That was that was really weird. And even when she you remember, Jidenna was in this show. Right? Yes. And they dated and we thought

46:25KT: In amongst his busy schedule of doing five remixes for Classic Man. We love Jidenna.

46:25Oti: We do love Jidenna, but he had way too many remixes. But she found fault with Jidenna as well. She found faults with everyone. Yeah. She's she's just so she has she has a list

46:58Oti: and everything has to be She's that person. Yeah. She has a list of the kind of man she wants. Mhmm. And they have to tick all the check boxes before they're even allowed a sniff.

47:08KT: No. She gives them a good sniff. Well, a sniff at a relationship with her. Okay. Because she thinks once all this she finds a man that ticks all these boxes, it's automatic marriage down. And I think it was Jidenna when they went to an engagement party. Was it it was Jidenna where she asked to be the plus one. Yeah. Gross.

47:28KT: Yep. And then Jidenna made a comment about you needed me here. Like, you wanted me to be and she's like, no. I wanted you to want to be here or whatever the fuck it is. Like, why are you acting like this is a relationship? It obviously isn't. Yeah.

47:42Oti: Yeah. Exactly. She's that kind of lady. She she's just so unhinged. Mhmm. She needed that therapy because I don't know how what what she'd end up with without her. Wholly honest with her therapist either.

47:58KT: And it wasn't until, I think, near the end of season three that the name Dro came up.

48:04Oti: And I hate Dro so much. He's everything Dro. Strong black man. No. He's not. Dro is is just not a character that I like at all.

48:16KT: But he was upfront with his open relationship. So why why is he a problem?

48:16Oti: I don't know. He just rubbed me the wrong way.

48:16KT: Yeah. He rubbed me the wrong way as well, but not anything tangible. Yeah. Not really. Was a gross person, but at least he was ex explicit and also upfront with his grossness. Molly wasn't. She kept trying to pretend like this open relationship wasn't an open relationship. You know, every time Candice, his wife would call,

48:50KT: she would get really pouty. And it's like, what what the fuck did you think this was? But it I guess it just really bothers me because Molly was brought up with her mother and father in a marriage, and then she got so upset when she found out that the dad cheated.

49:06Oti: Yeah. Because she told they had this perfect relationship.

49:08KT: And the mom stayed. So she's got these sort of conventional, traditional sort of values, and that's what she wants. But her actions don't really mirror that. And I'm not saying there's there's anything wrong with living your best life and having a good rotation. There's nothing wrong with that. But if she's looking for a steady man and a stable man to ground her, that's Sterling K Brown's character who she got bored with. He was in the show. You remember?

49:08Oti: Yeah. I do. He was the perfect example

49:43Oti: of this is someone I marry and settle down with. Right? Yeah. And now Lil Rel is trying to get up in that.

49:50KT: Yeah. But even even he's not really the marry or he's not in that sort of mindset. Right?

49:50Oti: No. But Lil Rel really loves Molly. Like

49:50KT: But but my okay. So but my point is, you know, Molly's looking for something, but her little expeditions are happening somewhere else. Yeah. And And that that that's what I'm not really understanding because why why does it like, Dro's in an open relationship whether you wanna say he is or he isn't. Even, you know, Issa and Prentice Penny, the showrunner, have said that

50:25KT: they there's no secret about it. They're in an open relationship. So that's not even at dispute. Right? I don't really think that Dro's to blame in this. I think Molly should have set better boundaries. But I I do understand that humans are fallible creatures. So, you know, we say one thing and we do another. That's quite common. So I I I do get that, and I do resonate with that as well. But there's there's I don't even know I don't even think the word is naivety. But there's something about Molly that's so

51:02KT: I guess she's got, like, Disney princess syndrome. She just thinks that things are gonna be perfect and a knight's gonna sweep her up Yeah. On a horse. Like, it's just ridiculous the way that she is. I just do I do wanna come back to the guy, the car rental guy because when she sees him again, he's a manager at that car rental. Right? Yeah. And then she makes this she sniggers and then she makes this joke about him being gay. Right? But that was actually his brother or something. I

51:32KT: just I just wanted to bring this up again because we didn't really get to touch on it. In 2019, people's sexuality is an open canvas, essentially. The fact that there there are people and countries that are still persecuting, you know, homosexuality and that sort of thing is is just it's it's deplorable. The fact that it's still happening, even even if we just even if we don't talk about, you know, extreme sort of hit lists of, you know, homosexuals to kill,

52:11KT: even if we're just talking about in the sphere of Insecure, it really bothered me that Molly, a strong black woman that's very successful, not progressive. I I purposely I purposely strike that out. But I really don't see what the big drama is about this guy having one sexual experience with a man. I just it really bothered me that she found a problem with that. And was it a play? Molly, Issa, Kelli, and Tiffany Mhmm. Were it was an intermission for something,

52:49KT: and all of the girls were having a talk about this. And it was quite an interesting sort of commentary that black women have about masculinity. Yeah. Right? And I feel like Issa was the only one that was like big whoop. Mhmm. Right? So that was quite an interesting sort of insight that we got there as well. But is there anything you wanna capture off about Molly before we move on to some other characters? She's struggling with

53:13Oti: how to be ambitious without being a bitch or without being perceived as a bitch.

53:19KT: Oh, she she had a lot of missteps in her Yeah. Like,

53:23Oti: in her career as well. Yeah. So she's she's an exciting character, and we just want to see this journey unfold and how she'd end up career wise and whether this friendship with Issa will last. If it does, like,

53:39KT: I'm not sure it does. I think they're good for each other. And part of what makes them good for each other makes them butt heads a lot.

53:49Oti: Yeah. I feel like it'll come to a point where they'll part ways because they're not that compatible.

53:58KT: Really? Yeah. It's a good but it's a good balance that they have. Because if they were too similar, there would really be nothing to talk about.

54:10Oti: Or maybe when Issa starts dating or when Yvonne starts Molly starts dating Issa's brother, that will be the

54:10KT: I

54:20KT: think he's gay. Is he? Is he?

54:24Oti: I'm I'm sure. I'm not sure.

54:24KT: First

54:28KT: person to answer that question for us at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We'll send you a prize. I feel like he is, though. I feel like he is.

54:42Oti: So, yeah, that's all for Molly for me.

54:46KT: And I guess we'll see more unfold once Insecure comes back. Yeah. So let's talk about Kelli and Tiffany.

55:00KT: Can

55:03KT: I just say Kelli is goals? She has so many one liners in this show that that alone. Just watching if you're ever sad, just watch a compilation of Kelli's character in Insecure and her one liners. They're one of the best. Yeah. She's she's quite good. You've ever been burped before? Love it. Right? Yep. And then when they're at Coachella Mhmm. And she gets tased, and she's on the ground, and she's pissing herself. Remember me different. I love Kelli. And then even when she's looking at Issa's finances, she was like, you're gonna save.

55:44KT: And she saw that Issa literally had no money at all. And I think that's also something to point out as well because Tiffany and Kelli, in their own respective fields, were quite successful.

55:55Oti: Actually, come to think of it. Yeah. All the three ladies are quite successful

56:00KT: apart from Issa. But it's not because she's not in the corporate world. It's just because she's become complacent. I think she was there for five years. We Got Y'all. Yeah. Which we haven't even talked about. We need to talk about We Got Y'all. Oh, with the white With the white hands holding the black kids. How did they not even see that? I hope they had that since season one, and they just decided to unravel that in season three. That was hilarious. So let's anything else you wanna say about Kelli and Tiffany?

56:31KT: It's sad that we're running out of time. Yeah. Not really. But they're really solid characters. We love Tiffany. Tiffany is And all of her pregnancy pictures. Apparently, Amanda Seales tried to or successfully

56:42KT: has kept those portraits.

56:42Oti: Oh, really?

56:42KT: Yeah. Even though she's not pregnant.

56:42Oti: Oh, wow. She's the quacky friend of the group. She's the bougie one. Yeah. Yeah. She's she's super bougie. And she struggles with the fact that she thinks that her friends will abandon her now that she has a kid. Well, they kinda did.

57:01KT: They have their own group chat. Yeah. But And then Molly and Issa didn't even volunteer to throw a baby shower. Kelli did, though. And that was a weird unraveling as well because Kelli and Tiffany were quite close. And Kelli got really hurt, and she was making cake as well for the baby shower. Yeah. Remember? And then Tiffany's new friends was like, oh, thanks. We'll just put it over there. Yeah. Put your cake over there. She spent all this time trying to make a cake for Amanda oh, sorry, for Tiffany's character.

57:34KT: And it was quite sad to see that, but I guess that happens. You know, as you get older, people start to have babies, even maybe before you.

57:41Oti: And, obviously, things aren't gonna be the same. But you think that your closest friends would be there for you. Granted, I get Issa and and Molly being

57:51Oti: dickey about it, but Kelli, come on. You know?

57:51KT: Yeah. I I guess it was a bit of a conflict because she kind of didn't want the dynamics to change, but she also needed women that she could relate to because they did have kids. So it was a weird sort of space that Tiffany was in, and I do like that we started to see more dimension with Tiffany's character as well. Yeah. Because she was quite yeah. She was quite one dimensional until she got pregnant. And then we saw a side of her that

58:18Oti: showed more emotion and showed more about what Tiffany is all about. Yeah. She values friendship. Uh-huh. Something that we didn't really show as much in the previous seasons. Yeah. But when she's going through this, this is when you need your closest friends to be there for you. Uh-huh. And that's not what happened. They're all so tied up in their own worlds Uh-huh. To realize that hey, our friend is having her first baby and they've done shit for her. Like Kelli tried to be there. Kelli tried to reach out but not to the point where

58:52KT: No no no no no no Kelli did as much as she could to try and help Tiffany.

58:52Oti: Not as much as she

58:52KT: Because even Tiffany no. Even Tiffany acknowledged that. So don't she could Donald. Don't make things up like you did about Lawrence.

58:52Oti: I I'm not making anything fan fiction, but this is not Everything I say is fact.

58:52KT: Everything you say is filler. None of it is canon.

58:52Oti: So we would be remiss if we didn't, in our minute remaining time,

59:19Oti: talk about Issa's workplace at We Got Y'all. So this is where Issa has worked for, I don't know, a long five years. And it's where she's just coasting through. She's trying to get more responsibilities and Uh-huh. That doesn't turn out too well because they have this exchange program where they are actually excluding Latino or non black kids Yes. From the program. And Issa is surprisingly well with that, which is kind of weird

59:50Oti: because as someone of minority, we all want to raise up together. It's not anyway, it's weird, and this is something that actually Frieda touches on it. Like, she put Issa on a pedestal. Yeah. Like, Issa could do no wrong. Mhmm. And then when this unravels and Frieda's like, shit. Would you actually do this? Like and we see the relationship with her and Frieda completely change.

60:14Oti: Well, she's angry at her Uh-huh. Rightly so. I was pissed at her as well.

60:14KT: So was I.

60:14Oti: And we start seeing how this affects her career as well in We Got Y'all because she's not given any more responsibilities because of that. She's kept in the backroom.

60:30KT: And I think it's worth noting that Frieda actually supported a lot of Issa's early ideas.

60:34Oti: Yeah. Yeah. She was always there. And even when Frieda tried to talk to Issa about it, she was like, nah. I don't don't see the problem or whatever. She just passed it off like it's not a big deal.

60:47KT: I guess that's that's part of the problem that I had because I can be objective. You're about to hear me be objective. Issa was so desperate to get a result that she didn't understand the path of destruction that she left behind her. And I guess for her, it was easy because she wasn't overtly discriminating. She was kind of she understood Principal Gaines sort of deal and that that's kind of his discrimination. And she kinda just let it happen because in in her rationale, which I don't think was correct,

61:24KT: her rationale was at least I'm helping some of the kids. Yeah. And when I think it was when they were outside and they were near the buses. Principal Gaines was talking to Issa, and then after he was done, you know, Frieda did try and gently she always does it quite gently. She gently tries to nudge Issa. And Issa's like, you know, that's easy for you to say because you're white.

61:51KT: I've had to deal with this all the time. I'm just trying to do what I can do. Right? Mhmm. Even in that moment, she was wrong. Yeah.

61:59Oti: I would just I don't know. Because I'm not Issa's biggest fan in this. And when you see

61:59KT: Are you sure?

61:59Oti: When you see moments like this, I'm like, it just solidifies how selfish she is.

62:13KT: Yes. Is.

62:13Oti: It's always about number one.

62:13KT: It's always about characters are selfish, not just Issa.

62:13Oti: Well, how more so?

62:13KT: It should be called instead of Insecure, it should be called I'm selfish and then have a spotlight on everyone.

62:27Oti: Like, Issa has she wants to work in this not for profit to have an effect. Right? But what effect is she having when she can turn a blind eye on discrimination like that and still think that at least she's helping a couple? Although the kids that are trying to get into the program are just not worth worth the time. It's it's ridiculous. It's all fallacy. And I just want to say categorically, like, Issa wasn't suited for that job. She is not she's not responsible enough.

62:59KT: I don't think it's that she's not responsible enough. I think she just a lot of the time, not all the time, but a lot of the time she fails to see the big picture and the knock on effects of her isolated decisions.

63:16Oti: Yeah. Not responsible enough.

63:18KT: No.

63:20Oti: Not that. I wouldn't trust Issa with my keys, man.

63:24KT: Like I would trust Issa with my life. Take take my $2 life savings and take my life. Yeah. But my life savings is worth more than my life. So that's that that was quite some interesting sort of social commentary that we had within Insecure. And I like that within Insecure, there is a lot of key messages and there is quite a lot of, you know, shining a light on social commentary that happens. Mhmm. And it isn't preachy. It fits quite nicely into the concurrent sort of

64:04KT: activities that unfold in Insecure.

64:04Oti: Yeah. And and also cover gentrification. Issa's walking around. That is perfect. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Issa's walking around and she notices all these changes. All the apartment blocks that were there before are being closed down or being bought out, And there's a white lady handing out flyers In Inglewood? Oh, Inglewood.

64:29KT: It it just paints a picture of what's happening in society at the moment. But it's it's beautiful. So LA is actually, it's in LA. Right? Yeah. Sorry. I'm terrible with American geography. It it it serves as a backdrop. It it is also I kind of hate when people say this, but it it is a secondary character in this show. True.

64:51Oti: True. And you could see she's she gets even priced out of out of her own apartment. They gotta bump up the rent at the gym. The rent because things are being pulled up that doesn't even suit the neighborhood.

65:04KT: But, you know, it it isn't presented in a preachy way, and they don't dedicate a whole bottle episode for it. They they put inflections along the way of the series, and you start to see the evolution and the process of gentrification happening. Yeah. Yeah. And let's let's touch on this before we run out of time. Speaking about the apartment complex that she was living with with Lawrence, can we talk about Thug Yoda? Yeah. So one of one of the best moments of Insecure is when

65:40KT: I'm assuming they're a gang of bloods because they're all wearing red and everything they say is with a b. But one of them starts dancing, and he goes hard. He says, like, is this choreography? Is he what what's happening right now? That was one of the best. I died. I I died. Any moments with Thug Yoda were amazing. When they had the couch on the sidewalk and he was talking to Issa, like, are you gonna use that vouch?

66:10KT: Or when he was with his daughter and he saw Issa, and he's like, I'm teaching her her ABB's. So good. So good. So good. And Thug Yoda was also in Awkward Black Girl. He was Darius. Oh. The little whispering baby in Awkward Black Girl. So that was quite nice to see. Nice. Could you just cover something that I think we've forgotten? You have my permission.

66:33Oti: Issa's relationship with Daniel.

66:33KT: Yes.

66:33Oti: I Especially when they when Issa moves to Daniel's apartment.

66:41KT: Is that a common thing? Is is that a common thing for young people to just crash on people's couches that you're it's essentially just a fuck buddy sort of arrangement. Well, Issa Because Daniel saw it as moving into a relationship Yeah. But Issa didn't. Issa didn't. Issa just stopped at But as season two in particular unfolded, Issa started to realize that's not she didn't wanna move into another relationship, which is good, and that's growth. Mhmm. Like Kelli's saying, growth. I'm doing the hand flower thing. So

67:15KT: that's good that she acknowledged that she didn't wanna be in a relationship at that point in time, but she kind of left Daniel dangling because from his perspective, they were entering into a committed relationship. Yep. He was also the one that Issa called when she got in a car accident because she was looking at a dick pic during her rotation.

67:36Oti: Yeah. Like, it's it's it's crazy because Issa wanted all the perks without putting in any sort of work into it.

67:44KT: Sounds like another character that I don't wanna talk about.

67:48Oti: Like Issa and then Issa has enough to get angry when Daniel brings a girl home. Like

67:48KT: No. It's not that. It's just inconsiderate.

67:48Oti: And we Incons oh, come on. If if I'm crashing on someone's couch, I know I'm fully aware and I accept all that comes with that. And I know that that person would bring in a girl or

67:48KT: No. But even you could see that Daniel was doing it out of spite

67:48Oti: at of whether it's being done out of spite or not. She has no right

67:48KT: I like Daniel's niece.

68:17KT: She's hilarious. Yeah. But sorry, girl. Likely on a Mormont, you probably won't get much airtime in this episode. But yes. So that whole Daniel let's let's talk about him coming in her face because that

68:34Oti: I did not see a problem with that.

68:38KT: Well, I also didn't see a problem with that only in the sense that it wasn't intentional and it wasn't malicious.

68:46Oti: Yeah. And she just watched a how to read your own. Yeah. So come on. You're you're sucking dick and then when the guy comes, you're all angry.

68:57KT: Well, he came on her face. Yeah. The dick's pointed at her face. So I I I from from what I understand, I'm just gonna leave that alone. Just gonna leave that alone. I I do understand that there are some underlying connotations about the degradation during sex. So I get that, but that definitely wasn't what was happening in that scene. So Mhmm. Issa and Lawrence are very similar in the aspect that they don't really see where their faults are in situations. Not to say that Issa had a fault. She was just giving good head.

69:38KT: Yeah. Right? But at the same time, she kinda needed to see that the the big picture.

69:45Oti: Yeah. Right? She took it way overboard, like, nah.

69:50KT: Yeah. But getting cum in your eye also isn't a fun time. True that. Where where do we go from here? Chad, actually, that's a great transition.

70:00Oti: Yeah. Yeah. So he he's Lawrence's best friend.

70:05KT: Best friend is an interesting word, but yes.

70:08Oti: Yeah. I'd say so. Yeah. Like, he's there for him. He gives him a couch to crash on when Yeah. So Chad is a great guy. He's he's he's a

70:08KT: He's a great guy in his capacity. He's not really

70:22KT: if he's going to tell you anything profound, it's going to be betwixt some sort of sexual retelling misadventure. Like, you're not going to sit and have an Oprah moment with him. He's just not that friend. Yeah. Because I think Lawrence did try and call it was it was Chad, wasn't it? He was trying to call him and try and have a deep and meaningful. First of all, Lawrence, that's you're kind of wrong because he's at a pub. He's obviously not going to have that sort of conversation with you. But that also talked about

70:53KT: the lack of emotional support that men have as well. True. Right? You kinda just need to deal with things as they come. So that was quite interesting.

71:04Oti: Yeah.

71:05KT: Chad Chad was a solid character. I do I do enjoy whenever he comes up on the screen. They don't overuse him, which is good. So there you have it, guys. There is so much more that we could have dived into if Oti wasn't too busy fapping over Lawrence. If you're interested in hearing more about our thoughts on Insecure, let us know. We can maybe we can have some sort of bonus, sort of capacity, sort of content. But let's just leave it there for today. Issa, we love you. Hopefully, you do come back with

71:43KT: season four very soon. We do miss our characters. But take care of yourself because she's very busy now. So, hopefully, she's also getting rest and she's drinking water. I do I do worry about my queens. Mhmm. We've now come to the part as per the name of our podcast called For Your Reference. Yeah. What have you got for us?

72:08Oti: I would recommend Atlanta. Nice. Just because it's a story being told from a perspective of a young black man who's trying to navigate life same as Issa and all that goes with it. So it's quite interesting told by Donald Glover.

72:29KT: Yep. Donald Glover.

72:32Oti: Yep. So

72:33KT: yeah. It's it's a good show. I feel like his character, Earn, would be friends of Lawrence because they're both lacking ambition.

72:41Oti: He has ambition.

72:43KT: Maybe you need to rewatch it again.

72:46Oti: What's your reference?

72:49KT: I would like to recommend two for this week. The first one will be her YouTube miniseries, Awkward Black Girl. I think it's very important to watch it. If not to satiate you until season four of Insecure, just to appreciate how far she's come. It was literally if not the whole series, at least the first episode where she's in the car, it was just her and her friend holding the camera and trying to coordinate it together. And there's something so admirable about that. Not something. Everything. Everything's admirable about that. So

73:24KT: watch Awkward Black Girl if you haven't watched it. The other show that I would recommend is 30 Rock. Because if we're talking about my lady loves, Issa Rae, Tina Fey are always in the same breath. I think they both have the ability to interweave social commentary and themes that aren't always superficial into a funny, bitty, witty package.

73:55Oti: Yep.

73:57KT: And we'll definitely talk about 30 Rock because who doesn't love talking about Dr. Spaceman? Exactly. Right? So if you haven't watched 30, we don't we don't shun you, but definitely give it a go because you'll you'll love it. Yeah. And that's it for this week. That is it. Follow us on our socials on Twitter and Instagram. We're @ForYourRefPod.

74:26Oti: And write us an email on hello@fyrpodcast.com.

74:30KT: Stay away from the larvae time.

74:32Oti: Live in the hive. See you next week. Bye. Bye.