Howl’s Moving Castle – I want to Lettie you in

Full transcript of Howl’s Moving Castle – I want to Lettie you in.

0:00KT: Welcome friends and lovers to the final and fifth course in our Reference Degustation of Miyazaki masterpieces.

0:09Oti: Mhmm.

0:10KT: Four chef kisses all round. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Just to quickly give a quick summary of the Reference Degustation. We started off with a very palatable Spirited Away. We also had Porco Rosso or what Oti likes to call me, the scarlet pig on a Friday night. Mhmm. We also moved into the next pairing of Princess Mononoke and also paired together with Nausicaä Valley of the Wind. And now we get to the light, creamy, dreamy, delicious Howl's Moving Castle. Oh, yeah. It is also our fiftieth episode, Oti.

0:55KT: Mhmm. It is also the same week that we started our podcast one year ago. One year. One, yeah, ago. And we also just hit 200 ratings worldwide on Apple Podcast 13. So spoiler, we already recorded this blue sheet. So I just wanted to give a shout out. I just wanted to say thank you so much to everyone that has loved, maybe not loved, but definitely supported us along the way. Arigato gozaimasu, you are our sensei's forever.

1:29Oti: Oh, yes indeed.

1:31KT: Hot doggy. Let's get on to the show. Hey, friends and lovers. Welcome back to For Your Reference. You've got your host, KT.

1:31Oti: And Oti.

1:31KT: And secure your hearts and work on your own sense of self because today, we are covering Howl's Moving Castle. Otherwise known as Hauru no Ugoku Shiro.

2:18Oti: Oh, wow. Right?

2:20KT: You didn't think KT Miyazaki was in the building, but she is here. Oh, clearly. We've also got Oti Jerome Tarantino in the house too. As you know, these are Miyazaki masterpieces, so we've got him at the helm for this film. We've got the strength of the duo that has followed us all along this menu. We've got Joe Hisaishi with the music. Wow. Wow. And we will definitely get into that as well. Let's just quickly go through the stats. It was released in September 2004 and it premiered at the Venice Film Festival.

2:58KT: The budget was 24,000,000. Wow. Well, keep your wow because the worldwide gross was 236,200,000.

3:10Oti: Yowzers.

3:11KT: You will never be ugly. You will have all of the persons to keep you beautiful. Flows bank pretty much. Damn, dog. Alright. Right? So let's get into the actors. Interestingly enough, we actually watched the English dub. Yeah. Which is the first that we did in this particular series. You would have listened through the episodes. I've I've pretty much watched all of the English dubs growing up into my own womanhood. But in this particular series, this is the first English dub that we watched. Yeah. Very interesting.

3:45KT: But let's go through the Japanese cast first, at least for the main characters. Playing Howl, we have Kimura Takuya. Mhmm. And playing Sophie, we have Baisho Chieko. So you will notice in the American English sort of dub version, we do have two people playing Sophie but in the Japanese version, just have the one voice actress. And just a little call out, just a little reference, if you're pardon the reference,

4:16KT: playing the Witch of the Waste is Miwa Akihiro who plays Moro from Princess Mononoke. So there you go. The qualities are there, the comparisons are made and the references are made as well. If we're going to go quickly through the English cast, we have the ever so creamy, ever so dreamy Christian Bale. Yes. Yes. Yes. In all the places. After he saw Spirited Away, he wanted to be involved in anything.

4:42Oti: Oh, I wonder what kind of method acting he went into preparing for this role.

4:42KT: Speaking of method acting,

4:48KT: he actually he actually recorded this just before he did Batman. Also another interesting tidbit Oti, I have read the book. So let's give all of us time for me to pull my glasses up. We will

4:48Oti: You'll never hear the end of it.

4:48KT: Do you know? And I've got glasses in the most pleasurable of places, don't you worry? In the film, there are different dials and it takes you through different portals with the door in Howl's Moving Castle and there's a black door. It doesn't really denote to, and I definitely wanna talk about the ambiguity.

5:27KT: But for this particular fun fact, in the book, it actually goes back to Howl's homeland, which is Wales.

5:35Oti: Oh.

5:36KT: And as the timeline would allow Christian Bale is also Welsh. Mhmm. Well he's from Wales like if that's what you wanna call it. Like I'm from Australia. Am I Aussie? Who knows? I'm everyone's Lou Carpenter's wet dream. That's a Neighbours reference, friends and lovers. Watch some Aussie shows every now and again. Yeah. Also in the English cast, like I mentioned, we have Emily Mortimer. Oh, we love her. Oh, she was pure quality. She was pure quality. And then we also have

6:13KT: Jean Simmons who voices grandma Sophie and she is perfect as well. Yes. She is. I think it it made sense to have two different voice actresses and this was Jean Simmons' last feature film, so rest in peace. Also rest in peace to Diana Wynne Jones. I did not know all of these years that I've loved Howl's Moving Castle, I didn't know that there was a book and I only just recently read it over the Christmas holidays, but she passed away as well. But before this film actually premiered, Miyazaki

6:49KT: actually went to England in the summer of two thousand and four to give a private showing to Diana Wynne Jones. Yeah. Even though it wasn't released like a year later. Well, that's pretty cool. Yeah. It is pretty cool. But, yeah, we'll definitely go through the tidbits and that sort of stuff. Don't you worry kids, we all know our knowledge repository is IMDb, so I've got that open. But I've also got Goodreads open. I'm running out of glasses to pull up Oti. But what what a film. What a film indeed.

7:25KT: Again, thank you guys so much for tuning in and sticking with us in this Reference Degustation. What a great time. What a way to round out 50 episodes. We are going to go to if you're if you are wankers like us and you go to a degustation, they usually have like tasting notes, you know, otherwise known as themes. So let's go through it. We've done it for all four other movies. So this will be quite a robust sort of analyzing cross sectioning everywhere. So the first theme that we have is planes

8:01KT: slash flying. So just quickly, Miyazaki's father built parts for planes. So not just not just that but also the innovation of putting people in the air is quite extraordinary. So how do you feel that theme went with Howl's Moving Castle?

8:01Oti: Oh, yeah. It got met. Like, we had airships,

8:21Oti: flying castles.

8:23KT: No. It was a moving castle, not a flying castle. Moving flying That's a that's a Laputa: Castle in the Sky, mate. But

8:32Oti: it definitely was met in this. We had all different sort of flying contraptions in the air.

8:36KT: Definitely. It was quite interesting because usually the flying sort of element that Miyazaki has in his films are usually like an escapism. It's usually a way to, you know, fulfill that inner sort of childlike nature that you have inside of you. Mhmm. But I feel like plane slash flying in Howl's Moving Castle was kind of not used for good, if that makes sense.

8:36Oti: Yeah. Most of them were like bomb ships and stuff.

8:36KT: Yeah. Yeah. So it was kind of just used for destruction. And even with Howl flying,

9:11KT: he was used as like a soldier in the army. So even when he was flying, it wasn't a whimsical sort of thing. It was like taking down villages essentially.

9:21Oti: Unless the first time she he was flying Sophie was it seemed to be quite fun even though he was running from Witch of the Waste.

9:21KT: I guess so. But when you compare it to like

9:31KT: Spirited Away for example, the flying with Kohaku is very different to flying with Howl. So it's interesting. I also mentioned in the Nausicaä sort of episode, like the age of the protagonist kind of denotes to the maturity of the themes. So I guess that whimsical nature was kind of gone and it makes sense because, you know, we'll get into Sophie as a character but she, you know, she wasn't sucking the marrow out of life.

9:31Oti: No, she wasn't.

9:31KT: So yeah. But you know what I mean? Like, to have a fully

10:06KT: realized and, you know, happy sort of film wouldn't have made sense with her at the helm anyway. So let's dive into the next theme because it's not necessarily happy either. Anti war. Yes.

10:20Oti: It's sort of covered I think. In the fact that they're fighting a war which they don't really know why they're fighting in the first place, I know they're looking for, they're assuming a kingdom has taken hostage or kidnapped a prince which is later to find find out it's Turnip Head. Yep. But it's all a bit ambiguous as to the reason why it's fighting even the resolution of the war seemed a bit too

10:20KT: Resolute?

10:20Oti: Yes so it was a bit weird like definitely

10:52Oti: there are comments here and there in the movie about how the war was stupid in the first place so yeah there's definitely some anti war themes in here. And I guess that's also an interesting thing

11:04KT: spoiler spoiler spoiler and if you wanna read the book also spoiler spoiler spoiler because there are quite a lot of things that remains from the book. Obviously, if you have a book that has hundreds of pages, you're not going to be able to fit everything into like a two hour movie, for example. However, I did feel like it kept the essence of the book. A lot of the scenes that you see in the film actually are from the book, like when Calcifer pretty much like curses the bacon to burn.

11:38KT: That's also in the book. Howl being so distraught that he can't be beautiful anymore. That's in the book as well. So you have quite a lot of moments from the book and you do have the essence of that despair that Sophie has and also how childish Howl is. I thought he was a bit more childish in the book and we can come to that and more examples. I already said spoilers. Guess what, Oti?

12:08KT: Sophie was a witch in the book.

12:08Oti: Really?

12:08KT: Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I guess it's also because in a book there's more space to breathe as well. I guess while we're staying in our learned KT encyclopedia, in the book, there's actually two sisters. There's Lettie who we see and there's also Martha. And there's this perpetual quote that Sophie has and I think it's like the first paragraph of the book where Sophie says, if you're the oldest of three children,

12:42KT: you're the first one to make mistakes, you're the one that will make the most mistakes and you won't get the best fortune. Yeah. Which is very sad, but she assumed that sort of role. I think a lot of how Sophie was feeling in the film was conveyed through the book. So if anyone felt any sort of disconnect about Sophie as a character, I would implore you to read the book and book obviously can give you more details as well. Yeah. But both of the sisters, the mom is actually her mother-in-law, a young

13:14KT: strapping. Can you call her woman strapping or is that more of a man thing?

13:14Oti: You're more like a man but there's nothing stopping her from being strapping.

13:14KT: You call me a handsome woman all the time and we are almost welcome. That's actually her mother-in-law who pretty much is as airy fairy as she is in the film But there is. There's there's definitely a lot more depth. Like I mentioned, the black portal is going back to Wales. And Howl has, like, a whole family and there's, like, a whole subplot into

13:14Oti: Really?

13:48KT: Yeah. And I guess that was sacrificed to make room for the anti war sort of messages because I don't know. I don't know. Because I've I've watched Howl's Moving Castle like 15 times. But it felt so disjointed now knowing, you know, everyone's aware of like the anti war sort of messages that Miyazaki has. But I felt like it felt so stuck in this film. And it's weird. It's weird to watch something after reading a book or maybe it was the English dub that threw me off. I don't know.

14:23KT: But I was feeling things and we will definitely get into that as well. Markl in the English dub was actually also in the Japanese. He was named Michael in the book and he was also a teenager and he fell in love with Martha. Was Martha? Yeah. With the sister that doesn't exist. So again, it's just like simplifying the storyline but they were witches as well.

14:50KT: But you know, that's a little bit of a backstory. If you wanna have like a reference reads which Oti and I keep talking about having a little book club, think that'd be quite cute to have especially American Gods, so sad. Yeah. So sad. Let's move into the next theme that we have is environment. I I don't really think it gets covered in this film.

14:50Oti: Not really, but

15:14Oti: we get a lot of landscape shots which is sort of great, they're beautifully drawn. Sophie's taken to this or Howl makes Sophie this sort of area which is beautiful, has a That's lot of

15:32KT: in the book as well. Yeah. So

15:34Oti: in as much as the environment and environmental issues are already covered, at least we are showing some appreciation of it. Yeah.

15:34KT: But, you know, you're grasping at straws now.

15:34Oti: I'm grasping at straws, but it's still sort of there loosely because what makes Howl Howl's Moving Castle really beautiful is the sort of Let's drawings and the landscapes and the detail that they've actually gone to to make everything look so beautiful. So in as much as no one's

16:07Oti: holding up signs out there claiming about climate change, at least we are shown the full appreciation of the world we live in and the sort of beauty that it can behold.

16:17KT: And that's actually quite interesting. I we've well, this is our fifth episode. So pardon all my splooshes if I've mentioned this before, but Miyazaki started off drawing landscapes and he was very good at it. And obviously, if you've witnessed and immersed yourself in any of his films, that is quite apparent. Right? But he always had trouble drawing people. Obviously, he's, you know, he's evolved since then but I thought that was quite an interesting sort of call out but that's why there's so much focus

16:52KT: on the landscape. It's not just like drawing the little dodgy brushes in the background. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it really takes on its own sense of life. But, however, this is our degustation and I will have to pull rank on you, Oti, and say that that's not met yet.

16:52Oti: Cool. I was just trying to, you know, bring you home a bit.

16:52KT: Yeah. Yeah. That's absolutely fine. Mhmm. You'll be fine with the next theme. The next theme is female lead slash kids. Oh.

17:23Oti: We have that in Sophie. In as Oh much as she's not really that much of a child, she's still quite young. She

17:31KT: in the book she's just under or about to hit 18. So I think she was like 17 in the book. Yeah. A young adult.

17:40Oti: But yeah, she's quite the protagonist in this. We feel like we can all resonate with Sophie and how she feels because most of us have some of our load times you know so it's not something that's completely removed from how you could feel. Yeah and there's also a lot of young people especially in Markl who's he's an understudy to Howl I might say.

17:40KT: Yeah yeah. An apprentice.

17:40Oti: Yeah. The fact that he's a young adult in the book and he's falling in love with other people that's completely different for me.

18:14KT: Well, it makes sense because again, in a book you have more time to breathe and you can allow to have a bit more complexity. I did feel like the story was a bit clear cut but then there were also elements to this film that weren't necessarily, you know, it was kind of oil and water at times. And that breaks my heart because for a lot of times I never put on like a critical sort of lens in regards to Howl's Moving Castle. It was always just my escape

18:49KT: film but it might have been reading the book, it might have been the English dubs but I'm starting to see it differently which is very interesting. But again, don't ask me to rank these films. It breaks my heart. I'll meet you in the solstice. But it is interesting and I guess we can talk about how we feel about it. You will be pressed to know that I'll probably rate them all 10 by Christmas time. You can all come and fight me in Japanese and in English.

19:25KT: But yeah, Sophie is quite an interesting character and there's definitely a lot of layers I wanna peel off in regards to her after we go through these themes. Because, yeah, she she was very human. She really was. If you look at a lot of Miyazaki characters, they kind of existed to serve the story. But I really felt like Sophie got in the way of the story, which is like sometimes that's how life is. Right? Yeah.

19:54KT: True. Like sometimes you have those friends and you want them to just see what you see but they don't. You know what I mean? And Sophie was kind of, you know, the one to get in her own way. So that was quite an interesting sort of element and something that you couldn't really explore in Spirited Away for example. Yeah. The so the the maturity and the complexity of the themes start to come out a bit more as well. So female lead, double tick, and all the dicks. Mhmm. The next theme we have is ambiguity

20:27KT: between good and evil.

20:31Oti: I'd say yes, it's met in terms of we have the Witch of the Waste who's bad at the start or evil at the start sort of

20:40KT: That even felt like because we talked about Lady Eboshi in Princess Mononoke, we also talked about Kushana in Nausicaä and we talked about how they were so evil and then they became so resolute I feel like Witch of the Waste takes the cake in regards to that aspect, right?

21:03Oti: We know her sole purpose of living was to have Howl's heart. Right? And I think, well, which is weird an explanation because I think in the movie, they sort of say that the Witch of the Waste was quite pretty and then I think Howl seduced her and then lost interest They faced or each other. Yeah. So yeah. Maybe Howl was some sort of playboy. I don't know. But yeah. And and I guess that's Maybe he was a So she's she's she's conned from our point of view, and she's just chasing She's a of him being a player.

21:40KT: Yeah. Yeah. On the Posey Patrol. Mhmm. That's an Inbetweeners reference which we'll definitely get to one of these days but yeah, The Wicked Witch of the Waste, it just it didn't make sense but then again, like sometimes you watch animes and like the arch enemy becomes like their best friend. Like I just, I can't explain it. I'm sure there's an actual like term

22:05KT: for it or even in like, we love Naruto and I think we've mentioned it in all of these episodes but you know you have characters that like seriously try to kill you but then you're like best friends at the end of it you know what I mean? Yeah. And I'm sure there's a term for this, but whatever that term is, that was applied with Witch of the Waste because in no other world does it make sense to just allow her in.

22:27Oti: Well, she's been stripped of her powers and I guess that's pretty much what

22:27KT: But she still caused damage.

22:27Oti: She does cause damage, but she she does feel and she does understand the love between Sophie and Howl. And at the end of it, she gives Calcifer back. So it's not like she's completely gone. She's completely broken bad.

22:54KT: Really? Witch of the Waste Heisenberg? Yep. Wow. Will stop mentioning the book but this is quite a big one. This is whopper. In the book, you know how they talk about a prince that's missing? Yep. And then in the book, there's also the king's brother that's missing. So you have two men that are missing. Right? She took parts of them. She took body parts of them and she was building the perfect human And she wanted to have Howl to put Howl's head on that perfect human.

23:41Oti: Okay.

23:42KT: But it was interesting. It was interesting and it made sense in the book. The I think they just try to paint her in like a more sympathetic sort of light in Miyazaki's film because it if she had done what she had done in the book, she couldn't have been best friends with them at the end. You know what I mean? And I guess that's what

24:03Oti: why we're saying this as one of the major themes in a Miyazaki movie because he's trying to depict as no one is inherently just bad or good. You know? It's it's it's it's all nuanced. And I guess it makes sense for him to kind of adopt it from the book that way. Yeah. So I have no cause because that's just his thing. And I guess it's sort of it's a sort of message where people can change and you can talk to them and you can sort of reach out and

24:35KT: No. I'm a cutter. Once you piss me off, you're out of my life, mate. Don't even know how you lasted so long. You must have a cheat code or some shit.

24:35Oti: Oh, I do.

24:35KT: So, yeah, the ambiguity between good and evil, I think I think was played with quite a lot in this film. Like, even at the start, people were talking about Howl and how he ate young lady's hearts and that sort of thing. Come and fight me, I wanna talk about the book again.

25:04Oti: Yeah. They talked about him stealing ladies hearts and you never I see those just thought that in terms of not not like literally like yeah, like just seducing them and then losing interest.

25:15KT: That's what it ends up being. So he makes women fall in love with him, but then as soon as they fall in love back, he loses interest. Yeah. Because they're not Sophie. But I'm bam bam bam bam. You reckon? Yeah. Are you squiggling little love hearts on your notebook at school?

25:15Oti: Oh, yeah.

25:35Oti: Yeah. Because it's quite interesting because at the end of it, which which I feel like I'm just realizing this right now. At the end of the movie where we have a sort of Sophie going back into Howl's childhood Yeah. And saying the sort of visions and telling Howl that remind me, come find me later. Yeah. I think that makes sense now that they're all bound to, you know, Howl's always looking for Sophie. So until Sophie found him and realized he was just an empty shell of a man.

26:11KT: I'm gonna bring up the book again. Take a shot. You're going to be on the floor by the end of it, friends and lovers. You know in the start when the soldiers were calling her a little mouse and how cute she is? That was actually Howl in the book. Oh. It seemed a bit pervy, didn't it? Maybe that's why Miyazaki chose to not make it him. And he's like swoops in and like saves her. But that becomes a big moment in the book where it's like,

26:36KT: you didn't notice me when I first talked to you know what I mean? Like those sorts of things. And there's a lot of exposition about her not feeling good about herself, which I wanna spend a lot of personal time on. But let's move on. The next theme is one of my most favorite themes and I'm sad that we have to hang it up for Miyazaki. Whenever we do next year's degustation, I wanna put this theme in as well just for shits and giggles. Pigs.

27:10Oti: No, no pigs in this mate.

27:12KT: Well, you wanted to say that environment was there so I will put my case forward to say there was bacon being fried. Does that count, sir?

27:12Oti: No. It doesn't mean.

27:12KT: Professor Oti?

27:30Oti: Clutching at straws, you are.

27:33KT: Well, a gal's gotta try. Right? Mhmm. So yeah. I guess no. So far for environment and pigs, don't have that element. Yeah. Okay. So the last theme that we have before we go into a general sort of discussion of the film is whimsical slash fantasy.

27:53Oti: Oh, of course. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. We have a moving castle. We have sort of magic, wizardry, witchcraft. They they have a castle which teleports them to different dimensions where they're pretty much hiding because they're they're hiding from a Witch of the Waste by moving all the time. But yet again, they have a portal making available everywhere. It's anything and everything. Yeah. Yeah.

27:53KT: But I think that also, on

28:23KT: one hand, you could say that that's like an ex machina and it gets them out of every situation. But in other cases it can also denote to Howl's overwhelming power.

28:36Oti: He was a very strong wizard. He was a very strong wizard and I guess once you give your heart to a demon fire then you get all the powers in return and that's an interesting sort of theme isn't

28:47KT: Right but those are themes that we have I also want to add in regards to the whimsical slash fantasy it also is whimsical because it is a visual visceral experience of what it's like to enthrall yourself and also fall in love.

29:12Oti: Oh, yeah. Like, it's so beautiful to hold and I feel like most of us watching this, we're pretty much resonating from Sophie's lack sort of point of view because like you're explaining, it seems like Howl is a completely different sort of person in the book than he is.

29:12KT: I think he's just more whiny and unfortunately Christian Bale wasn't whispering in my ear

29:36KT: while I was reading it so I just read it as you guys just the ultimate pussy dryer sort of voice. Screech, Yikes. Is that our first Saved By The Bell reference? Yep.

29:54Oti: And it'll be our last. It's taken us 50 episodes to reference Saved By The Bell. So Well, there you go. There you go indeed.

30:02KT: And there it stays. There it will remain friends and lovers. Wow. But it is a very interesting sort of story. I also felt like reading the book, the romantic sort of elements weren't as pronounced and they didn't resonate as much as watching the film. But I think that's more me as a consumer. We've talked about this in a couple of episodes but I really allow myself to indulge in the score. Yep. In some cases it can inform me what the scene is supposed to make me feel. But a lot of the times it accentuates

30:51KT: the happenings inside of the scene.

30:53Oti: I think once the movie started, we're introduced to this beautiful music and Yes. I am drawn into that. It makes me want to, like, absorb everything that's happening, which I do, and it's so subtle, and it makes you want to not only concentrate and feel whatever it is that's happening on the screen, but it just brings out emotions in you that you never really thought that a movie like this would elicit.

31:26KT: Right? It's like, you know how people like say, like sex is cool but blah blah blah. I'll be like, therapy is cool but have you listened to a Joe Hisaishi joint?

31:38Oti: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Like bloody hell. I could picture myself in my nine to five listening to the Howl's Moving Castle soundtrack back to back without losing a beat and just completely concentrating in whatever the hell I'm doing.

31:38KT: I use it to

31:59KT: sleep, I also use that to read the book but the main theme that they have in Howl's Moving Castle, it makes me think of like a ballroom, like similar to like Beauty and the Beast. Disney is its own thing and Miyazaki is its own thing. Don't call it the same thing. I'll come and fucking fight you. I will also punch your mother in the process. Okay? Let's make that very clear. But it felt like you were in a ballroom and you were in your most extravagant of dresses or suits

32:36KT: and you were dancing with the one that you've been waiting to dance for all night. Oh, but the music was delightful.

32:45Oti: Yeah. And it was effective. Yeah. Like we said in our last episode where we felt like they missed a beat with the score but with Howl's Moving Castle, I think this is one of my favorite scores. I think the only

32:45KT: More one than Spirited Away?

32:45Oti: No. No. No. This is

32:45KT: The train station?

32:45Oti: No. Spirited Away is completely just on a different level. Like, I think that's one of the best period. No. No. It's just the best.

32:45KT: Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. And then Okay, Oti Kanye.

32:45Oti: Howl's Moving Castle is a very close second.

33:19KT: Yeah. Like, if you had to rank them, otherwise, they're both great pieces. It's oh, and it's an interesting thing. It would be very interesting to hear someone with, you know, of musical sort of background and sort of credentials actually explain this. But the way that I feel it in the smallest resembling I have of a heart is Spirited Away really is whimsical in every sense of the word. Howl's Moving Castle score is it sweeps you off your feet, but you still know where you are in the world.

33:55KT: Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah. It's like an outer body experience. It's that grown love motherfuckers.

34:02Oti: It's like an outer body experience but with Spirited Away, you're completely swept out of your like, don't even know where your body is. Can I get another body?

34:11KT: Nah. Damn, dog. Bo body, mate. Bo body. That's an Office reference. Oti Creed Bratton.

34:19Oti: You're the Creed of this podcast.

34:23KT: You're the one with Oti blogs. Tell you it's the Twitter, but really you're just writing on Microsoft Word. Hey, kids.

34:35Oti: Don't everyone thinks I'm fake.

34:38KT: You did that all on your own, sir. Back to the film. Oh, but the score is everything. And, you know, like, hopefully, we get to a space where we can twenty four seven talk about film and TV shows. But until then, we are still amateurs in many other ways as well. But when you start to watch film and as you start to indulge yourself, at least for me personally, I didn't really pay much attention to anything besides like the director, Right? But there's a whole team behind that and what encapsulates

35:17KT: in that is also the soundtrack and also the music that is composed for that specific moment. If I may be so bold, even Succession, the Succession TV shows opening theme is fully dramatic and more verse and you've got so much tonality to it all. So I guess this is just KT's little journey on the boulevard of broken references that I'm starting to open myself up to understanding that it's more than just the creators. You need people to help drive that vision.

35:17Oti: Oh, yeah. For sure.

35:17KT: And

35:56KT: it's interesting. It's interesting with Howl's Moving Castle. Did is there anything you wanted to mention about first impressions or how you felt overall about this film?

35:56Oti: No. This was the first time I watched the English dub because previously

35:56KT: It was, wasn't it?

35:56Oti: I think the last three

36:12Oti: I watched was the Japanese version so it's it was interesting I think the voice actors were pretty good I enjoyed it more than I expected I would.

36:17KT: I would say that this is the best voice acting for any Miyazaki film that has an English dub because everyone just played their parts so well. And I think it also had to take time for shout out to Lasseter who helped and is the executive producer for a lot of the Ghibli sort of translations because there's a certain amount of respect that you need to have for the craft to stop fucking tinkering with it. Yeah. Right? Yeah. The

36:58KT: character development on Lasseter is primo. You know, from completely chopping Nausicaä to allowing the films to be their own. Yeah. So that definitely deserves credit, definitely where it is due. Let's get into Sophie as a main character.

37:20Oti: I think I loved Sophie more than you did.

37:20KT: I did but she was like too real.

37:26KT: Like in the last episode, funnily enough, recorded just yesterday, Nausicaä, right? She was too perfect, right? And it's not her fault, like she's royalty. So obviously she had that silver spoon in her mouth and other places. So that makes sense. It makes sense that she hasn't gone through the struggles of the common sort of folk. But it kind of takes away from her generous sort of nature because it's kind of out of obligation. Right? And then you have Sophie, someone that, you know the interesting thing about Sophie is we talk a lot about characters,

38:15KT: you know, accepting the world and the role that they play in it. Like, the the quickest thing I could think of was The Boys with Hughie. Yep. If you've got Amazon or if you don't, Jeff Bezos, go and contribute to him and get Amazon because The Boys is But yeah, you have characters that like waste so much fucking time

38:41KT: being like, oh, this isn't right. This isn't how it should be. And it's like, no, man. Let's move on. Let's actually get let's get to the meaty part of the story because you're wasting my time. It also denotes to her sense of self and her lack of self worth, which I think was quite sad. But, you know, come come and tell us if you have a different experience. But like Oti said, we all have times where we just don't feel adequate. Yeah. And that's kind of the space where Sophie was operating.

39:15KT: In the book or even in the film, you see her sister or sisters moving on and having a life. And she chose to stay in that hat shop while her stepmom just went gallivanting around.

39:29Oti: Yeah and I guess all she's ever been was a hatter and she didn't know anything else, she didn't think she was as pretty as Lettie and everyone was giving Lettie all their attention and you know it it would play with anyone's mind.

39:29KT: Oh yeah, totally.

39:29Oti: So I completely just understood where she was coming from and I I I gave her all the graces

39:52Oti: like she didn't really think she'd have anything more especially not a a relationship with Howl. That was Because she targeted beautiful. Yeah and she did not see herself as that Even when Lettie was like, oh, you floated. Maybe it was Howl. And she she was like, nope. No. It can't be. No. He he only goes for beautiful girls.

39:52KT: You know, there were so many moments in the film where she just didn't feel enough. You know, when Howl was being such a brat about

40:22KT: his hair changing a different color, you know, you might say that she made it about herself, which she kind of did. But anyway, you know, Sophie was like, I've never felt beautiful once in my life. I fucking felt that, man. Yeah. Like, I fucking felt that. And she rants

40:22Oti: How dare you? How dare you cry?

40:22KT: Did I just get an Oti how dare you?

40:46Oti: How dare you bloody cry that your hair has changed color and you don't feel pretty anymore

40:55Oti: when she

40:55KT: But he was always gorgeous.

40:55Oti: Yeah. When she never even felt that at all. And she never even considered a future with Howl because she wasn't on the level that he would be with. Yeah. And that's why the curse lasted so long

41:10Oti: because she never really understood.

41:13KT: We need to talk about the curse. We definitely need to talk about the curse, but I feel like there was very opportune rain. She felt so upset and as soon as she ran outside there was rain so she could cry in the rain. Again, I haven't watched The Notebook. This might be another surprise to you but Oti watched The Notebook by yourself or with your sister?

41:13Oti: With my sister and by myself so yeah.

41:36KT: It was a double feature?

41:36Oti: Yeah.

41:40KT: Was it a blue movie?

41:41Oti: No, not this time. Okay.

41:44KT: Listen to the Nausicaä episode, which you should have done away already because this is a degustation menu friends and lovers. But I felt that, like her not feeling like she was enough, I fucking felt that. I heard that with a bullhorn.

42:01Oti: And I guess this is where you can sort of tie in Porco Rosso

42:06Oti: especially Marco with

42:06KT: Yes, Can we do that?

42:06Oti: Because

42:10Oti: Marco is also sort of burdened with guilt, and his is completely different for the cause, you know? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Him feeling all the guilt and keeps him that way, him seeing himself as a pig and him transforming into a pig. Whereas we have Sophie who really doesn't feel like she deserves the sort of love or she's pretty enough and this curse just stays on her because her self worth is quite low.

42:41KT: Yeah. And she was never she was never set up to succeed really in regards to how she feels about herself. You know, her mom passed away when she was young. Her father remarried to this hot little tatty, and she never really got a chance to feel good about herself. And again, like I could feel that a 100%. And the interesting thing is because I fucking love you, Oti. We've been together for like ten years, but you know, especially during those like long distance times, like watching Howl's Moving Castle, like it just

43:22KT: it made me feel like I wanted to feel love for the first time again. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? Yeah. So, you know, even though you are happy and you're in love, if you're immersing yourself in a film that conveys all of the messages it wants to, it can completely just destruct your frame of reference. Right? Because I'm happy and I'm well fed and I'm very satisfied in all the ways. But watching this film, even like Spirited Away and on some extent with the score of Howl's Moving Castle,

44:00KT: there is that overwhelming sense of like loneliness at any point in time, this happiness that you're feeling is going to be taken away from you. And that also is conveyed in one of the final scenes where you have Howl gifting the garden to her. And she keeps saying, why do I feel like this is goodbye? And again, that is some real grown shit.

44:27Oti: Yeah.

44:28KT: Yeah. And she was right. Howl was saying trying to say goodbye? Yeah. Because he was he said that he didn't need to run anymore. Which

44:37Oti: is completely I think watching this and realizing just how much the sort of effect people have on each other and especially when it comes to Sophie. Her emotional state is quite low at this point and she doesn't really see herself in any sort of redeeming light And the fact that she has all multiple positive effect on everyone that she comes across

44:37KT: But she doesn't feel that.

44:37Oti: Yeah. But she doesn't feel that. Like, Calcifer pretty much obeys

45:11Oti: and does whatever she wants straight away, which is rare. Mhmm. And we're made we're pretty much told that that's that doesn't happen. Yep.

45:21KT: Markl falls in love with her. Yeah. Like, I think there was, like, two or three moments when she where he's like, don't leave. Don't leave. So she she she has this effect on people. Yeah. And she just doesn't see that. But, you know, back to the parallel that you were drawing earlier, she is very similar to Marco from Porco Rosso in the sense that the spell can be disenchanted from her own volition. Right? And that's an interesting sort of thing because you see her going back even to her brown hair

45:57KT: when she's at her most vulnerable. Even when she was talking to Suliman, right? She really laid everything back. We also see Howl being a creep,

45:57Oti: Oh, weirdo.

45:57KT: And he was watching her sleeping and that's when she was at her most vulnerable again. Right? And that was quite interesting in the book. Howl actually makes a note of it that he actually tried undoing the spell many times while she was sleeping. And

46:37KT: he managed to do it to the fact that she was young again, but she still had the gray hair. So if you notice, it's only when she's super vulnerable that it becomes brown. But even when she's feeling her love of loves, it's still gray. So I guess you could also symbolize that to her not wanting to get hurt in the process of loving someone else.

47:01KT: So she's she's it's like a guarded love.

47:01Oti: I guess so. But I guess I took it more as magic has its effects and stuff. Like, remember when Witch of the Waste sent over the letter with Sophie and then it made a sort of weird mark on the table and Howl sort of removed it. Yep. But know when Markl's like, oh, it's gone. And Howl was like, oh, not really. In as much as I've just removed it, the magic is still there. Mhmm. And I thought that was sort of what they're trying to like foreshadow

47:34Oti: when it came to when it came to Sophie. Yeah. That in as much as the curse is gone on the end of it Sophie.

47:44KT: Wow. Sometimes sometimes I forget the the sumptuous man I'm with. Continue, sir.

47:44Oti: In as much as the curse is gone, this the magic still has effect and it's still there.

47:44KT: Yeah. The magic is stirring I can tell you. Damn dog. Are you bringing qualitat?

48:03Oti: I always bring qualita, Just For Your Reference podcast. I always bring qualita like it's

48:08KT: You're taking my role. You're saying how dare you. You're bringing qualita. What what do I need to do? Just bring my shlong and put it over your shoulder?

48:17Oti: Alright. No. That will be good. Works for me.

48:20KT: Let's move on to Howl. He is a whole character.

48:24Oti: Oh, he is.

48:26KT: It was it was quite interesting to see him slowly shed off the the layer of feathers that he had, if you pardon the pun. In regards to his ability and his inability to give and receive love in many ways. You see in the last half of the film, a lot of him becoming the beast is protecting Sophie really. Yeah. Like that's his main goal by the end of it. So it was an interesting sort of conflict, like in a conflict that was manifesting itself externally.

49:06Oti: Like just looking at how Howl is portrayed in this and guess what what you're telling me about him from what you've read in the book is sort of I'm not sure it's explaining him better in my view in terms of what I just watched. I think it's just adding more confusion in terms

49:06KT: Said of the man that didn't read the book but anyway.

49:27KT: I will come and fight you.

49:30Oti: Well, there's like in the movie, there's definitely hinting that he is some sort of playboy at least that's how I took it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fine. And in as much as it's not shown and there's some level of care and as you said in the scene where there's two soldiers approaching Sophie but that's supposed to be Howl in the book And I guess I'm just trying to wrap my head around in terms of trying to understand his character wholly and just to see

50:01Oti: the kind of thrill of thought Diana had of him rather than what's been depicted in the movie. But I guess this is a podcast solely focusing on the Miyazaki portrayal.

50:12KT: So funny. No one told me. No one gave me the memo.

50:17Oti: Which is interesting because I think in as much as it seems vain, it's not that much, also you can still sympathize and you like him, he's quite likable.

50:26KT: Oh yes. Very charming. He doesn't he doesn't come off as malicious.

50:31Oti: No and you can tell that he really does care for Sophie. Oh yes. Even when they go to see Suliman and he sends Sophie there, he still makes sure that he comes in you know. I did wish he was Heen the dog though. I wish he was the dog, I was so disappointed he wasn't.

50:48KT: And because we're all learning and I mentioned the book earlier, the dog is actually one of the apprentices of Suliman.

51:01Oti: Yeah. Oh, which this is this is another point where another character completely falling in love having felt the love and glow of Sophie because the dog betrays Suliman and just goes with Sophie and doesn't really report back anything until up until the end where he's like, bitch, everything's solved now.

51:22KT: Form a line for the Sophie kissing boof because she was kissing everything by the end of the movie. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Turnip Head, you know. He turned Turnip Head into a human. He was the prince of the neighboring town. The the ones they were warring with. And let's let's go back a bit against that because again, I have qualms, Oti. Qualms. I was going to rate everything a 10 by our Christmas episode and I don't think this is one of my favorite Miyazaki joints now.

51:22Oti: Why?

51:22KT: Because it just all felt mismatched.

51:55Oti: It didn't feel mismatched to me.

51:55KT: No. But the anti war just didn't make sense, really.

52:01Oti: It did to me.

52:03KT: Yeah. I know. But again, I I am an enlightened being and I'm going to be ascended up to heaven or Valhalla any moment now. So don't you worry.

52:12Oti: Okay. Here's what I took from the anti war theme. Okay. In as much as there's a lot of confusion ambiguity about the war and I think this is all intentional.

52:25KT: No. But it's like, why don't you have like a clear cut? Because you have Mononoke, you have Nausicaä and it is quite clear on who was fighting who. You know, it got to a point where you had this warship coming out of nowhere in the the meadow of flowers. And Sophie's like, do you think it's us or the enemy? And Howl said, it doesn't matter. And it's like, well, it kinda does matter. You're telling us a story here.

52:47Oti: No. Like, it doesn't. At the end of the day, I think Miyazaki is trying to tell us that war is is just bad and useless regardless. Yeah.

53:02KT: But he's done that in Mononoke, and he executed it much better.

53:02Oti: He's doing

53:06Oti: it differently. You can't just have it copy pasted across all movies in the same way. And I think I appreciate this sort of approach to it because most of the time when there was take the war or what what's the war the Bush started? The Iraq war. Yeah. Like, we knew the reason and then fucking ten bloody years later

53:06KT: Still going.

53:06Oti: It's still going on.

53:06KT: Well, that's interesting.

53:06Oti: And no one really knows what the fuck is going on. And I think that's the sort of that's the sort of tapestry

53:37Oti: I can feel this was taking in terms of politicians or the leaders know what the fuck they're doing or don't even know the fuck they're doing. It ends up being sort of ambiguous.

53:47KT: Well, it's interesting that you mentioned that because I have a quote from Hayao Miyazaki here. The reason that we made Howl's Moving Castle is that there are too many unhappy matters in the world and he's referencing the Iraq war. Right? Another reason why he didn't attend the ceremony for Spirited Away. Oh. By the way, Howl's Moving Castle was the second animated feature to get nominated. Let me continue the quote. Such as wars and economic crisis.

54:18KT: We hope that through the movie, people can keep up their courage and see the hope. The future world is still nice and beautiful. It is worthy for us to survive and explore it.

54:29Oti: Okay. I think I liked it. I saw where he was going with it and I appreciated his creative take on it. Yeah. But it was a love story amongst all of that.

54:39KT: And it's it's not to say that you can't have love stories within like war torn sort of stories being told, but it kind of felt like a plot device. Like every time the story or like Sophie needed to show her courage, the war sort of element reared itself around. You know what I mean? And they kind of wrote themselves into a corner. And again, I hate who I am, like saying this shit right now, especially being someone that has loved this film for so long. But the fact that they,

55:12KT: you know, Witch of the Waste becomes their best friend, they completely remove any sort of wizardry on Howl's part and the way they try to explain how it all stitches together with Sophie seeing him as his childhood, it wasn't the best. You know what I mean? In a powerhouse where we've seen execution of messages, Princess Mononoke being the strongest one in regards to layers and nuances to have Howl's Moving Castle such a simple romantic sort of story about self worth and also about selflessness because Howl learns that as well. It's

56:00KT: definitely a mutual beneficial relationship between Howl and also Sophie to then muddy the waters with anti war literal propaganda. Like there was like leaflets falling out of the sky. Yeah. Right? And the man's like, we're closed for the day but it's like, dude, I can still grab your fish while it's there. Right? It just felt a bit disjointed. And I don't know if I am, you know, I I am reaching my final form of KT film critic, but I really saw this film differently this time around.

56:40KT: But again, I'm not liking that. I'm not appreciating that. I just wanna like the film.

56:45Oti: Yeah. Well, I can't completely agree with you on that because you just had my points on it. To me, it doesn't really change anything. I think I enjoyed it in as much as I enjoyed watching the pastime.

57:00KT: It's just interesting because I felt like I would love Howl's Moving Castle till the end of time but I'm getting to a point where I'm like, I love it just like I love Oti but there are elements in there that you know.

57:17Oti: Yeah. Let me ask you a question. What do you think about Sophie's stepmother?

57:24KT: She was a problem

57:24Oti: but she I also think she did sort of love her like

57:24KT: But she also married young and she betrayed her by the end of the film.

57:24Oti: She did betray her, but she did feel sorry.

57:24KT: She the awesome girl said As as long as you feel sorry.

57:24Oti: Well,

57:40Oti: Suliman didn't really give her a choice, did she?

57:43KT: Oh, come on. Get off it.

57:45Oti: She's this powerful bloody grand witch or something. You can't really do anything about her.

57:47KT: She's trying to give me some like Tasha bullshit like power.

57:55Oti: No. This is not Tasha bullshit. I think if she didn't really care about Sophie, I don't think she would exhibit those sort of emotions at the end.

58:06KT: Okay. I don't have any children. So I guess my point of view will always be from the child's point of view. Parents are there to look after you. Parents are there to take care of you and she didn't fucking do that. Yeah. So there's really not much that I have else to say about the mother-in-law but wow. This was designed to be the dessert of our Reference Degustation but we really got into some meaty sort of cojones.

58:39Oti: Yeah because it's a cojones full movie.

58:42KT: Some bacon wrapped desserts. If you're nasty to your arteries. But wow. How has this journey been for you Oti?

58:56Oti: It's been good. Like I've enjoyed really rewatching and watching for my first time some of the movies in there that we've covered. Uh-huh. Miyazaki will always hold a special part of me and I think this is one of the reasons why I loved animation so much and why I wanted to be in that sort of environment and world and bloody hell he just inspires the hell out of me and it's one of the things that I think we will never get tired of watching. Oh yes. And would be expanding our repertoire

59:28Oti: in a lot of other Studio Ghibli movies.

59:31KT: Even non Miyazaki?

59:31Oti: Yeah, non that's what I mean like.

59:31KT: Oh, I don't know how I feel about that.

59:31Oti: Yeah because they

59:39Oti: sort of have this sort of unique approach to stuff which is good.

59:39KT: Yeah, it is good.

59:46KT: I like that we have these films, these masterpieces in order to immerse ourselves in a world that we will never be able to experience. And there were also centralized key messages that we can apply in the real world. Yeah. I also appreciate that we can talk about being hippie and super tree hugger but I think it's nice to try and reduce your waste on the environment. And it's not necessarily we exist here to take advantage of resources and humans or animals

60:28KT: for that matter. So I really appreciated this. I like the idea of doing themed sort of months. I like that because it gives us like an anchorage and it makes us very learned. And it also helps us, you know, because we always wanted to do like Miyazaki films and we could just pump out five of them.

60:28Oti: Yeah and I guess this is something maybe we could

60:50Oti: do a lot more of in our second season of the podcast.

60:54KT: Oh, how nice. Mushy mushy to me indeed Oti. Well, thank you guys so much, not only for indulging in our Reference Degustation, but thank you guys so fucking much for tuning in for one or 50 of our episodes. Yep. By the Splooshies Awards, we would have done 55 episodes including bonuses and also special sort of episodes including our Christmas episode as well where we rank everything. But again, we wanna say which means do your best. We fucking love you guys so much. Thank you for tuning into our podcast.

61:44Oti: Thank you indeed.

61:45KT: Thank you for engaging in our tweets for writing us emails. And also I wanna give a big shout out to Kolby, Nick and Kyle from Dem Fancy Dinosaurs, Ben from Filmbusters and also Julio from The Contrarians podcast. Thank you so much for supporting us on Patreon and thank you everyone so much for supporting us along the way. You will hear our award show, which we had a lot of fun There were lots of libations in the ad. Yeah. And if you wanna see all of the frivolity,

62:21KT: we have our Patreon as well. But everywhere everywhere else on Twitter and Instagram, we are For Your Ref Pod. You can write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. And, again, thank you so much for tuning in for a whole year of For Your Reference household. Swahili

62:43Oti: Asante sana, squash banana.

62:45KT: And you can sit on our Jupiter's cock. We'll see you guys for the award show next week. See you. Bye.