House of the Dragon – Daemon slayer

Full transcript of House of the Dragon – Daemon slayer.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and it is another chapter in the night of Kisses, Oti.

0:06Oti: Mm-hmm.

0:07KT: We covered the first seven seasons of Game of Thrones, friends and lovers. It was actually our ninth episode of the podcast,

0:16Oti: Oh, wow.

0:17KT: and my Daenerys takes, uh, ever so mu. Uh, friends and lovers, if you can be so kind and loving to the audio of whatever the fuck it sounded like in our ninth episode, feel free to go and check it out. I, yeah, there was definitely a lot of thoughts and I do feel vindicated in my Targaryen takes.

0:39Oti: Mm-hmm.

0:39KT: We also did a bonus episode with Nerds of Friends as well, but we're gonna get nasty and our familiars are still on our ass. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and pink dread lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference Podcast. You got your host, KT

1:10Oti: and Oti

1:11KT: Unsheath your silver tongue dagger and prepare to ascend the throne at all cost with familial loving as the mandatory side quest Get in loser. We're going scab picking with house with House of Dragons this week.

1:31Oti: Wow. What a show.

1:36KT: Yeah. How's your Valyrian lineage? Yeah,

1:43Oti: Strong ass. Strong ass,

1:45KT: big man. Oti's snake. Am I right?

1:48Oti: Uhhuh.

1:51KT: Let's get into general stats and information. And for the fan girls and the fan boys, I am going to make a gentle reference. To the Negroni. Um, and you'll know exactly what that means if you are a lover of memes and the internet. Uh, speaking of lover of all pop popular culture, um, this show is obviously in the vein of game of.

2:16KT: Thrones and don't worry, Oti. I will get your final thoughts on the last season of Game of Thrones, uh, based on Fire and Blood by George R. R. Martin, who is also the creator of this show. Um, I guess he can also contend with Don Mancini in regards to following along with the lore and making sure the show is what it should be.

2:35Oti: Mm-hmm.

2:35KT: Keep the nieces away. Am I right? Um, also credited as a creator. We have Ryan Condal. Um, this show, which we can also talk about as a separate theme, but it goes throughout the ages, so there is a lot of casts. So I'll just rattle off a couple. We have Paddy Considine, Matt Smith, Emma D'Arcy, the Negroni of it all, Rhys Ifans. Steve Toussaint and Eve Best.

3:05KT: Nice. Also, Olivia Cooke, we always say we're going to do Bates Motel and we still haven't got into it. And I'm glad she's got full lung capacity cuz every time I

3:15Oti: you see her rolling it down.

3:18KT: Well it makes sense that her, she got, she got the scab daddy.

3:21Oti: Oh, true. That, Oh, she cannot escape this people Ka she

3:26KT: Who do you mean by you people? Don't worry, we're getting into race-baiting. That's going to come along. Wow. Very well. But ooh, ooh. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. Cloak and dagger. Cloak and dagger. Cloak and dagger. Welcome. Welcome friends and lovers. Uh, it may not be a throne, but you are more than welcome to sit on Al Jupiter. I guess that's a prompt to go and check out Spartacus and also our episode on Spartacus. Um, Or you can just think we're nasty and we just like saying that, which is also true isn't.

4:01Oti: Let it out.

4:02KT: Um, but, but let's, let's round off our first impressions. I think even before we talk about House of the Dragon. I wanna talk about. Hey, um, the, you just don't have the right quality of television while I pull up my nerdy glasses. Um, I wanna talk about the last season of Game of. Because we haven't captured it on the main podcast. Um, and I, I just to be a completist, I would like to close that chapter before we start talking about our first impressions of House of Drag. Take it away. My love.

4:39Oti: Wow. Um, to say it was disappointing isn't even really, um, doing it justice, I think. What the fuck was

4:48KT: Well, yeah, but I think even mid season seven,

4:51Oti: it had, it had already deteriorated, but I don't know, I expected so much more in the last season and it was just super, super disappointing. The fact that, well, at the end of it, we couldn't even watch it anymore because it was too dark.

5:04KT: dark.

5:05Oti: So maybe that, that was the.

5:09KT: Well they also had a lot of those scenes in House of the Dragon as well, but it seems like you don't, you don't wanna do a postmortem, you just wanna lay it to rest. Is that right?

5:17Oti: to the extent of, I didn't even think I wanted to watch House of the Dragon in the first place. Like I was just,

5:23KT: I think I agree with you, but I think enough time had passed that we're like, Okay, fine. We'll give it a try because you're right. If they had tried to do it straight after like a Power universe, it definitely wouldn't have

5:34Oti: Yeah. I'd be like getting the bin man.

5:37KT: I wanna see, I wanna see some Game of Thrones, House of Dragons lore where we have Tommy, just like stabbing everyone.

5:45Oti: Wow. Well, we'll still be under, um, the Targaryens in terms of power. Wow. You have dragons and people fighting with fucking sword.

5:54KT: Um, yeah, I, I pretty much agree. You know, I, I didn't have as much stock in the Game of Thrones franchise. Um, you know, like I mentioned in our ninth episode, um, it was coming to the last season, so then I started to watch it so I could watch the last season with you, I think, which is, which is also what I did with Breaking Bad As.

6:16KT: Or maybe Breaking Bad was over, but essentially, um, you know, it was an enjoyable adventure. I don't, I don't think it necessarily deserves all the hype, but if we're being real, sometimes the hype is mainstream consumable stuff. Yeah.

6:31Oti: true.

6:32KT: It's not the most rich sort of story. Um, I get it. Like I get why it's very popular. Um, and I'm not hating on it to a certain extent. But, um, yeah, it is what it is. It didn't hurt my feelings. It hurt my intelligence for a lot of the time, Um, but it, it didn't create any conflicting familial love, um,

6:56Oti: Are you sure? Oh my god. This guy, eh,

7:04KT: It's a lot like it's

7:05Oti: a pattern at this point, man. Yeah.

7:08KT: like, like familial love is to George R. R. Martin as the N word is to Quentin Jerome Tarantino,

7:16Oti: That's true.

7:18KT: Like just, just breathing. Just breathing. You're just gonna throw in that plot line. Um, but anyway, so yeah, the Game of Thrones, it, it, it made people mad. Um, and Oti's just, just feeling like, I think you were a bit deflated, but you know, we went into the House of the Dragon. I, I think from the first episode we were pretty much sold, weren't we?

7:39Oti: Oh yeah. I think the first second we saw Corlys, I was like, Bro, I'm in

7:46KT: Well, you know, I don't wanna detract too much from the actual show and discussion about the show, um, but it's hard to ignore, especially. Shows that apparently you have to uphold the history about a fictional fucking show. Um, how did you feel about the discourse? Were you interested enough to have a little peak?

8:07KT: Did you know it was going to be bullshit? So you didn't even try? What was your whole experience? Knowing that by having a black man, not just having a black man, but also having a black man that was rich. Like if not the wealthiest one of the wealthiest. How did you feel about the general sort of discourse around

8:28Oti: I thought it was stupid. Cause my go to was, what the fuck are people getting angry at? It's fucking fantasy. Yeah. And then, I can't remember who said this, but it was like, Mate, they don't want to see, They don't want to see black people in their fantasy. That's the thing. Yeah. You know? So it just lit a bulb and I was like, You know what? Fuck it. I'm not even. Let the outrage continue. I'm gonna enjoy Corlys's performance. Even though the, We did say spoilers, right? Yeah. They killed him off. But I

8:57KT: Are they?

8:58Oti: He's fucking on his death bed.

9:00KT: deathbed

9:04Oti: I think we didn't even see him after what, three episodes Just disappeared.

9:09KT: Yeah, I guess, I guess I, I don't think it's to the level of, and I keep coming back to Power of like, unless you see them die on screen, they're not actually dead.

9:18KT: So it's hard to know. Um, but I, I just thought that was interesting about whether you get into the discourse, um, as the one that is on the podcast social. You know, and we are a TV and film podcast. Even without trying, I will see the discourse, right? Um, but we're surrounded with people of qualities. So a lot of it is reactions to stupid shit as opposed to the people saying stupid shit on our timeline.

9:45KT: Um, but yeah, at some point it just gets in the way cuz it's like people are going to say whatever they want, right? Mm-hmm. and they were going to say it whether Corlys was rich. let's get into the themes that we have. I've named them by other TV shows if you're nasty. Um, yeah, this one's called Succession or Bo on the floor. Um, so essentially I wanna talk about Ascending to the Throne. Obviously this will cover the whole season. Um, you know, particularly in regards to Rhaenyra.

10:23Oti: mm-hmm.

10:24KT: Um, how did you feel it was tackled in this show, like compared to even Game of Thrones, for example?

10:30Oti: What I enjoyed more about this was the dynamic between and Viserys, because you'd think he's just another king who doesn't fucking care, but he

10:39KT: fucking loyal

10:40Oti: man. Man, he too, He was so loyal to, I was like, Man,

10:46KT: He was a walking scab like, but also I think we should have like done a biopsy on him for immortality because every time they kept changing the ages in the show, I was expecting him to be dead. But he kept outliving motherfuckers.

11:04Oti: Yeah. You know, he, he started fucking holes in his ass. Continued coming up his body. No.

11:13KT: Actually, that's also a reference to Serpent Queen. Our Tywin Lannister also had a scab on his ass, didn't he?

11:19Oti: Mm.

11:20KT: If you're into that, I guess you can call that a spoiler, but go and watch Serpent Queen Friends and Lovers where we're like, um, unconsciously creating a list of s scabby asses in film and television.

11:33Oti: Wow. Denzel must have gotten Theca in Training Day as well. So you know, we can add to the list.

11:38KT: I guess also add Martin Lawrence from Bad Boys to that list,

11:43Oti: Yep.

11:43KT: Oh, Mike Lowrey,

11:46Oti: He must really love your friend, eh,

11:49KT: Would you believe? Friends and lovers. We also have a Training Day and a Bad Boys episode as well, but you're absolutely right because you know, with the cloak and dagger shit that happens in these sorts of shows and also happens in Succession as well. Um, you need to have a strong unit. And I don't know about you, but there were definitely moments where I thought Viserys. Especially when he got his own like son. Right. I thought there were going to be moments where he was going to just like cut ties.

12:19Oti: Yeah, I thought so too. You know, because Rhaenyra did make it easy for him.

12:23KT: Yeah. Oh yeah. At every stage.

12:27Oti: To the point where Viserys gets his own kids.

12:30KT: Mm-hmm

12:31Oti: He's still committed. You know, I'm breaking to tradition. Rhaenyra, you're going to be queen. Yeah. Like, okay, cool. When he got the kids, I was like, okay. Surely now, yeah. Nap. When the kids got older, nap, Even when she couldn't get pregnant with Laenor, I thought, you know what? When she stepped up, I was like, Surely now no. And the dad was like putting blinders on. He did what He did not want to.

12:54KT: Excuse me, Excuse me, Excuse me. Excuse me. In what world? Because again, I, I know we're talking about how loyal Viserys is, but maybe he had scabs in his eyes because the kids weren't black, the kids didn't have white hair, like they did not resemble. Either of them. Come on. He knew. Okay. Between you and I, he knew those weren't his like full grandchildren, right?

13:19Oti: He knew. He knew.

13:20KT: Okay. Okay. Cause him standing up for his daughter is one thing, but I'm like, surely this man isn't that naive?

13:29Oti: Yeah. Yeah. He knew, but you know, God damnit what he says is law.

13:37KT: Well, I, I guess speaking of, cuz you were talking about breaking tradition. I wanna talk about Rhaenys for a second. What did you think about that whole situation? Cause personally, I would be mad.

13:49Oti: I'd be pissed. Yeah. I'd be pissed. I'd be hanging around, man. I'll be like, Man, get off my throne.

13:54KT: The energy she had at the end of the first season, I would've had that right at the start.

14:00Oti: Fucking

14:01KT: bringing her dragon in. Are you kidding me?

14:03Oti: But not doing anything.

14:05KT: Yeah, I know, but she, she still did more than what she did because she did zeto, she did another at the start. So it was, it seemed, it seemed like a big gesture because she did nothing. Right. Cause she kept saying she was all goods. Even with Alicent, she's like, you know, you just need to, um, you know, make your place and all that sort of stuff. And it's like, br like you, you weren't living your life either. I don't know.

14:32Oti: But she got this illusion though, right? Because it's just like I, Cause she told Corlys, You are the one fighting for that. I was already content just living my life because these people would never accept a female queen

14:46KT: Again, I don't like the way you said female, um, but But there's, there's two different circumstances. There's accepting that it's never going to change, so you just accept that even though you're not happy about it or genuinely believing it, I don't think Rhaenys believe that.

15:03Oti: Yeah.

15:04KT: I think she just played her position the best she could.

15:07Oti: maybe so, But she was happy to be the kids, you know? Um, and just be rich with Velaryon.

15:15KT: Yeah. I don't know, I, I, we'll talk about the houses in a second, but just in regards to succession, I was kind of hoping for a bit more of a fight. That's all. But what I also would say is, even though it's not in reality, I do appreciate that the real sort of implications for women at a time like that was applied.

15:38KT: Because if we go back to a couple of episodes to go with The Woman King, apparently women could do. If women could do everything, then why'd it take so long to get right now, but you know what I'm saying, Like they were applying a modern lens in The Woman King. So I do have to give props to the show. Even if, and I do believe Rhaenys wanted more. Right. Even if she wanted more, she couldn't operate that way. There's no way she could have operated that way.

16:07Oti: True that. True that. I I can, I can, I can understand that. And I think she was one of the, You knew that she'd play such a people to a role. Yeah. Just because of how much she was in the sidelines. Yeah. You know, uh, of course they took the throne for me and I feel like I'm dissolved here and she's like, Yeah, I'm just sitting in the background. You with gave of, with JR.

16:27Oti: JR. You know, you're not gonna get that. Yeah. You're just gonna get someone who's conniving and manipulative and they're just scheming away. Yeah. If not seducing.

16:36KT: Okay. Rap

16:37Oti: Mm-hmm.

16:38KT: I guess this is just a plug for all our other episodes. Go and check out Go and check out Rap Sh!t, Friends and lovers. Um, but I guess so we can move on to other themes. I just, in regards to succession, I wanna go back to Rhaenyra for a second. She's kind of the mirror. She's kind of the mirror to Rhaenys. And even early on in the season, we did have scenes between Rhaenys and Rhaenyra, you know, where Rhaenyra was very.

17:03KT: Uh, I don't know. I'm kind of sick of. I'm kind of sick of the storyline of whether it's a child or whether it's a woman or a young woman. You know, them being defiant and them being a bit of a pick. Me being like, I can change everything with my will and might empower a friendship. And it's like, actually no, you can't.

17:21KT: You know, um, and there were even moments when Rhaenyra was like, I'm not getting married. And it's like Bruck. Unfortunately women were carted as cattle back then. So it's like, you know, it doesn't matter how strong willed you are. Okay. Let's also acknowledge like Viserys loved her so much, otherwise he would've forced her to get married. Yeah. It wasn't because of her sheer will that she didn't get married off to Alan, for example.

17:46Oti: It was just daddy's soft hands,

17:48KT: Soft hand, scab legs. Oh man. I really hope makeup and effects, um, get nominated for awards. Cause when I saw Paddy in real life Wow. Sign my scabs up. But going back to, um, Rhaenyra. Everything that I was saying about Daenerys in our Game of Thrones episode has been absolutely vindicated by the fact that she comes from a long line of whiny bitches, and that's non-gendered. Well, you can disagree if you like.

18:26Oti: No. I can't argue with

18:28KT: that

18:29Oti: You're completely right because I think you watched it, You watch Game of Thrones after you'd already air and all the hullabaloo had sort of died

18:37KT: No I'm just more elevated than you. I, I picked up, No,

18:40Oti: I bought into the Targaryen

18:42KT: I picked up Daenerys, like as soon as I saw her, I'm like, she's fucking entitled. And it's disgusting. She made everyone, like, she made all of these slaves fight her war for her, and then as soon as it got too hard, she's like, Ladies, nah, fuck off.

18:56Oti: she had a dragon. You can't, you can't, you can't. People who watched it go, you know, sequentially while waiting for, you know, for it to drop week by week or some shit. I don't know. She, she grew on a lot of people and by the time she turned

19:10KT: Emilia Clarke grew on people. That's what it was. her season one, season two titties that we never saw her again. Grew on people. Are we gonna have an intellectual conversation or not? Oti clearly not show at your tis No. But like you don't, Like you didn't like Raya in Raya and the Last Dragon. Why? Because she had all of the privileges as was wondering why all of the working class people were protesting and mm-hmm.

19:40KT: and she got to eat rice every day and she didn't understand why the poor people were crying over eating grains of. See,

19:47Oti: idiot.

19:48KT: there you go. That's the kid's Bo version of Targaryen.

19:52Oti: Oh man, I can't even argue either because you, you called her out pretty soon in the, in the show. So kudos.

20:00KT: I did. And I also said Skyler is the martyr and she's not the bitch you're all making her out to be. So I'm waiting for you to have that Realiz.

20:09Oti: Nah, that's where you are. Wrong, man.

20:11KT: Do the work, Oti. Um, but yeah, you know, even another example of how entitled, uh, Rhaenyra was, I think it was like in the middle sort of arc, um, Rhaenyra and Alicent were talking, and it might have been around the time that she was arranged to be married to va. Um, or it might have been just before, but there was a very key pivotal scene between the two of them where, you know, Alicent is talking about I can't squander any opportunity. I get you motherfucker

20:45Oti: Yeah.

20:46KT: I think it was also around the time that, uh, Rhaenyra rejected the Lannister as if she can pick and choose when she gets married because in this case she can, cuz Viserys is very supportive, um, and, you know, being judged and, you know, I, I really appreciated that moment. Anytime we have characters and we have dialogue and we have mu scenes calling to account the class and privilege of another character, I am all the way in.

21:17KT: I do feel like there were moments if, if I sit and think, I do feel like there would be moments where I didn't necessarily care or agree with Alicent's sort of motives, but I always understood that she was working with the cards that she was.

21:31Oti: and she, Well, to be fair, she sort of really toed the line of where she wanted to be still friends and close to Rhaenyra. Yeah. And she didn't really want to do anything that would hurt her to the point where when Rhaenyra was, well, Rhaenyra was off in the brothel, and she was like, Yeah, Alicent, nothing happened.

21:48Oti: I wasn't even there. Alicent believed that shit because she thought, Oh, my friend would never lie to me. Yeah. But you know what she, she gave it such a go with trying to make that friendship work. Yeah. Or at least have some sort of mutual respect. Yeah. Which never happened. So I can't blame her for feeling like, You know what?

22:07Oti: My kid deserves this fucking throne, even though my kid is a dickhead. And that was one of the best scenes ever as well. When she was like, calling up the son. Like, bro, how, how, how, how useless do you have to be? Yeah. Jesus Christ. I don't know. People jacking off back then their mother's walking in and they don't even care.

22:26KT: Yeah.

22:28Oti: she's

22:29KT: like, Mom, stay. I'm almost done. paint me like one of your French moms.

22:35Oti: Wow.

22:37KT: We, we also have a Titanic episode. Friends and lovers and we also have an Avatar episode. Shout out to Colby that didn't know Laz Alonso was in Avatar. So, So what do you think about Aegon being crowned as king?

22:52Oti: Useless. But you know what? You don't have to be fucking smart to sit on that throne as it's improved.

22:57KT: mm-hmm.

22:58Oti: Um, definitely he's not gonna last because I think that's more Aemond's sort of chance. Cause he sees that seat, he sees it. It's like that's meant to be me. It can't have some guy who doesn't even want to sit on it, be there.

23:11KT: You. But you know what's very interesting about Aemond's character? Um, well he's also grown on me by the way, but he also grew himself cuz compared to the two other kids, like he's towering and less like evilness and resentment make you grow larger.

23:28Oti: Don't step out or otherwise your kids won't grow from

23:33KT: Um, but the, the thing with Aemond, the interesting thing about Aemond is you can see that there's a threshold because you are Right. If he wanted to, he seemed to know where Aegon was. He could have like murdered his brother in the night, Right. And assumed the title. But there's a, there's a threshold there where he still respects the rules. I'm waiting for that threshold to break. So when he, when he unleashes his full. It's gonna be very interesting to watch.

24:02Oti: I think because he's just fucked up already and killed. Um, Rhaenyra's kid and Dragon, there's no coming back from that. He's either just gonna dive in and be now really, really bad since he's in the deep end already. Just, you know, lean in because there's no way out now. No way.

24:19KT: He's kind of become the new era Daemon,

24:22Oti: Mm.

24:22KT: where, Cause there were moments that I was like, Ooh, I like Daemon. He's a cute guy. And then he did really shitty things and I'm like, Oh yeah, we're not supposed to like him. Like I think, I think he's going to be that for the next generation.

24:35Oti: Yeah. But I still like Daemon, you know, him doing shitty things inside of the Times.

24:41KT: I guess I, I guess so. But you know, are you, do you have any sort of predictions about the succession of the throne beyond this season?

24:50Oti: I don't think Rhaenyra sits on that throne at all.

24:52KT: Yeah, I don't think so either.

24:53Oti: so Aegon's Dragon, I don't think anyone bypasses that at

24:58KT: How do you feel about the setup of dynamics now? So you, you don't think that Rhaenyra is going to get the throne, but it's going to like, there's going to be a power shift, Right? And actually while we are here, do we genuinely believe that King Viserys whispered to Alicent?

25:14Oti: Oh, I don't think so. Man held his chest the whole time. That Rhaenyra is the success of No, he backs down with his dying breath.

25:22KT: He even came out of being bedridden to go

25:25Oti: He, he had not left his room in ages, but as soon as Rhaenyra was there and she was in trouble, man, he motivated himself to the just like crawling, skin falling and all

25:37KT: it seemed, yeah, it seemed a bit too

25:41Oti: Mm-hmm

25:41KT: that no one else lay witness to it, but apparently it happened.

25:47Oti: Of course it

25:48KT: Man, it, it's really working to Otto's advantage though, isn't

25:51Oti: Will is have this ratty motherfuckers in the show, man. Yep. He is a, he will clinging onto power as much as he can. I know that Aegon is in charge. I'm pretty sure he feels like I can, I can side step. I listen to just go directly. Yeah.

26:06KT: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, the next thing I wanna go to is power. Um, I really don't think there's anyone taking down the Targaryens. Sure.

26:18Oti: Well, clearly they calm down because in Game of Thrones they're not in power anymore,

26:22KT: Actually

26:23Oti: You're right.

26:23KT: the lands. Right.

26:25Oti: Yeah. So

26:26KT: how does that happen,

26:29Oti: Well see. They found something to kill the dragons with, so, um, That'll be exciting to see and how, how it all transpired.

26:36KT: exciting Yeah, you're right. Look at you leveraging your nerdy knowledge.

26:40Oti: House of cards and all has to come crumbling down.

26:43KT: Um, not just full blown power, but I also wanted to talk about the soft power like Otto Hightower. I feel like characters like him will always survive.

26:52Oti: Yeah.

26:53KT: Even when he got casted out, he ended up coming back, being able to convince the whole table. Alicent was so emotional and so convinced that Viserys said it, and it didn't even matter whether he said it or not, because they were already mobilizing and making, you know what I mean?

27:09Oti: Mm. Like he didn't matter. He, he'd already come up with contingencies. It would've been stupid, like he would've been outside his character if he did have a plan.

27:18KT: Yeah, he, he's one of those like, you need to get rid of him if you actually want to get rid of him.

27:23Oti: Yep. Otherwise it just keeps coming back. Yeah. Like Viserys's scabs

27:30KT: We love a callback. Who has the strongest Dragon, you reckon?

27:34Oti: Uh, Aegon. Yeah. His dragon just matched up another dragon like, like he was having some hors d'oeuvres at a dinner party.

27:42KT: Oh wow.

27:45Oti: That's all I said, like, how do you bypass that? Interesting. It's like 10 times the south of end of the dragon.

27:51KT: Sure. Okay. Well I, I'm looking forward to the Mortal Kombat-esque,

27:55Oti: Unless they do like a Captain Planet Kumbaya, you know? Ah, it's weird. Fire calling out the drug's name and they combat it to a bigger version, No way. No way.

28:07KT: Um, let's talk about Daemon Slayer. Um, I'm essentially talking about the uncle lovers of the.

28:13Oti: Robert. Mm-hmm.

28:14KT: What do we think about just the, The fact that there's such a prevalence and there's such a prominence, like you are getting mad that there's black actors in here, but you are fine with uncle fuckers and niece fucks.

28:27Oti: Hey man, that scene in that brothel, I was so uncomfortable. I was

28:31KT: was like, Yeah,

28:31Oti: What? The

28:33KT: Yeah. And it's also cause like they look the same as well.

28:40Oti: baby

28:41KT: Not like sparas.

28:42Oti: Ah, not, Yeah, that was creepy, man.

28:45KT: but it was very, I was confused cause I'm like, is this consensual? Like it's definitely incest, but is this consensual? That's more what, That was my first tier of concern.

28:56Oti: Man. It can't be consensual. Cause she was, what? She was 15 at that time.

29:00KT: Yeah.

29:01Oti: bro. Man, This guy writes some shit, doesn't he?

29:06KT: Yeah. And then we just like, we just skittle past it.

29:10Oti: Uh, uh, uh, and then Rhaenyra goes back home. And fucks Criston Cole, who gets fucking pussy, gets angry because he can't technically be with, with Rhaenyra. Doesn't want to run away with him. What the fuck did he expect?

29:23KT: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is all on Rhaenyra.

29:26Oti: this is where we started with the simp. This is the first instance of a simp in history.

29:31KT: Turn your pages. Turn your pages, friends and lovers, No, you are dead wrong on this and you are pivoting it from the wrong perspective, man.

29:40Oti: Such a simp apologizer

29:42KT: well being with a simp, I can sympathize. No, but Rhaenyra was playing a good game. She's like, Yeah, I'll run away with you. I'll go with you. Nah, man, you. And this is what's so frustrating, and it's also, I guess if we're going back to Succession, like it's characters like Kendall and maybe even Shiv, but going back to Rhaenyra, where they benefit from the privilege and the wealth and the fortune that was gained through violent and disgusting, inhumane means right.

30:16KT: Off the back of slaves, right? Mm-hmm. but then they wanna be so fucking critical about it and it's like, if you are about it and you are critical about it, then run off with Criston Cole, then go somewhere where your status doesn't fucking matter. Oh, it does matter. Thank you. Gwyneth. Parian.

30:34Oti: but Criston Cole has to be smarter than that man. He's older. He needs to understand what this means. Rhaenyra didn't even think she had a chance,

30:43KT: but she treated him like a play thing as well.

30:45Oti: He's meant to be used to that shit.

30:47KT: Wow. Okay. You're like the opposite of a pickup artist. Allow yourself to be picked up. My brothers she picks up the bill tonight.

31:00Oti: I dunno. He servicing the throne. He needs to be aware of what's on the line and not act like a simp. The minute he, The minute Rhaenyra was like, Yeah, I can't run away with you

31:11KT: me

31:12Oti: It's exactly how Lucia thought that Craig was, was the love of a life. Me, power dynamics, all that shit doesn't count.

31:19KT: Yeah. I guess in that sense it was all the way around where the privilege one didn't love the one with less privilege, but, um, yeah, Rhaenyra just, she just, she wasn't my tempo. I didn't, I didn't agree with her in, in many aspects.

31:34Oti: I did enjoy her pushing, uh, the boundaries though. Like, you know what? Shake it up. If, if you're not gonna do that, then who will? I didn't, I didn't mind that.

31:43KT: Go off sis

31:45Oti: Yeah.

31:46KT: Let's explore the houses a little bit more. Um, who else in the Targaryens do you wanna tackle?

31:51Oti: Maybe Jace Targaryen. You know, he seems quite competent even though he looks small in Starer. I hope by the time season two comes about, he's grown a bit.

32:02KT: What are you calling a pipsqueak.

32:04Oti: exactly. And this time he is a pipsqueak. Um, he seems competent though. You know, It seems like it can be a match for Aegon, which is good.

32:14KT: Well, you're saying a lot.

32:16Oti: Yeah,

32:17KT: he's, like, Yeah, I, I don't see it.

32:19Oti: Maybe not combat wise right now, but intellectually

32:23KT: you might not be good looking son, but you've got other talents, Um, I think the last thing I would say in regards to the Targaryens is the mother, Well, I guess in general with the show, there was a lot of childbirth scene.

32:41Oti: Man, I don't

32:43KT: I think there was even an episode where there were two childbirth scenes. Yeah.

32:47Oti: I'm like, Who, who, Who is this for? What? For what? Now

32:51KT: you know where to search if that's what you want.

32:53Oti: beautiful child, but scenes man at that one being gut. In the name of C-section back in the olden times it looks

33:01KT: do don't know if she's gonna survive and literally hack her to death.

33:08Oti: We've taken like 20 pint out of blood, but you know,

33:13KT: she might make it.

33:16Oti: Oh my wild went Jesus. It was too much. I feel like the fast run fine maybe. Alright, cool. Second, third. What are you doing here?

33:26KT: that

33:29Oti: Come on, come on.

33:31KT: Yeah. No, I, I absolutely agree. In regards to the Velaryons, now that you talk about the Targaryens being taken down, I don't think we really see any, at least like main prominence sort characters in Game of Thrones. Being from the Velaryon family, the only thing I remember is like Valyrian steel.

33:51Oti: Mm. The foreign steel.

33:53KT: So that's pretty sad.

33:55Oti: Yeah, man. Black people were a Game of Thrones, you know? Now you know why. Wow. Someone else took all the steel and made it for them.

34:02KT: Wow. It's sad to sound real now. Any other characters you wanna talk about specifically?

34:10Oti: We know Laenor isn't dead. What role do you think he plays

34:14KT: We know, as in you are saying, we know.

34:16Oti: Yeah, we know. We saw him running away with the boyfriend.

34:19KT: We gotta have a comeback. Surely because I kind of, again, I'm not a fan of ver, but I didn't like how they agreed to have an agreement, but she shamed it at every. Yeah. what was it? We can have a buffet. We can indulge in our delights. And every time he did, she was like, Really? Again,

34:41Oti: you're indulging too much. There's a

34:44KT: with her. With her full brown haired kids. come on man. Come on. You

34:51Oti: you know what, Laenor put up the walk. He was like, You know what? I love them as my kids. That's fine. Which was, Which is surprising.

34:57KT: That sounds like a Tyler Perry movie.

34:59Oti: It does

35:02KT: But all of that aside, like Laenor is a warrior and he's actually been out in battle. So he would stand to give a better position to a lot of the current generation that.

35:17Oti: Yeah.

35:18KT: And he does have means to contend the throne because he is still alive. And I'm not sure how marriage works when you decide to fake your death Bold and Beautiful style and then you come back.

35:30Oti: I think it helps in, Oh, I think it helps in Rhaenyra's thinking. Oh, okay, you're not dead. I'm not gonna hate on Rhaenyra and Daemon anymore. Unless Laenor tells, Ramirez, everything.

35:44KT: Yeah. Okay. Interesting.

35:46Oti: Those are two angles that could, that could play out.

35:49KT: Speaking of angles, how did you feel about the wigs on the show? I'm specifically talking about the Velaryon wigs thoughts.

35:55Oti: Yeah, quite distracting. I don't know.

35:57KT: were very see through, like you could see through the dreads.

36:00Oti: I don't know, man. Uh, it felt, it felt weird at first, but, but the fourth episode, I was like, Yeah, cool. Whatever.

36:08KT: Right. If you like it. I love it.

36:11Oti: Mm-hmm.

36:12KT: uh, I guess before we finish off, um, are there any characters or families that we explored in Game of Thrones that you wanna see more of here?

36:24Oti: Oh, Stark will be cool, right? Yeah, yeah. Get some Starks in.

36:28KT: They're very salt of the earth, aren't they?

36:30Oti: Oh yeah. Salt of the earth stuff

36:32KT: Um, and Lady Catelyn Stark, she's got a face of a hard matriarch.

36:38Oti: Oh, man. In, in Gangs of London.

36:41KT: Gangs of London.

36:44Oti: Yeah. Oh, gotta love her.

36:45KT: Yeah. You don't want cross that

36:47Oti: Nope.

36:48KT: How about the Ls? Are you wanting to see more Lannister action?

36:51Oti: Not really, just because I know they end up in the throne, so I, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not too eager for that to come. Yeah. I wanna explore everything in between.

36:59KT: nice. Okay. I can dig that.

37:01Oti: Mm-hmm.

37:02KT: Who, who, who. Thank you friends and lovers for joining us another week in the For Your Reference household. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference. Oti.

37:13Oti: I've got a reference. Game of Thrones. Go and re-watch it up until season five and stop

37:20KT: You and your you. I'm gonna stop you from not doing full references.

37:24Oti: Well, I give, I gave a full reference.

37:27KT: That's like saying you recommend it without the incest scenes. It's integral. It's woven into the fabric I will reference Raya and the Last Dragon.

37:39Oti: Whoa. Okay. Take your shot, mate.

37:42KT: Yeah. I've got my grains of rice of privilege. If you would like to check Oti's privilege on Twitter and Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod

37:51Oti: Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

37:54KT: We're also Ontarians. Were never shit Arians. Ain't shit tars Never be Shit. Podcast if you like to leave a rating and review and we'll see you guys next week. Hi.