From – Null and Boyd

Full transcript of From – Null and Boyd.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household and another PSA. Reference beware. Apparently, this is not Lost. You might think it's Lost. The characters might want to get lost, but it's not Lost. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and colony lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT.

0:00Oti: And Oti.

0:00KT: Hastily stash your secrets in the foreshadowing lunchbox, meet me at the diner while we plot our escape from humans? Join us as we travel through frozen time with the Epix series, From this week. Mhmm.

1:05KT: Woo hoo hoo. I think the earlier the Epix show that we've enjoyed thoroughly is Pennyworth.

1:12Oti: Yeah. I heard it's going to HBO Max soon or if it's not there already.

1:12KT: Oh, as part of the DC arm?

1:12Oti: Mhmm.

1:12KT: Are we quite learned, Oti?

1:12Oti: Kinder.

1:12KT: Nice.

1:22KT: Kinder is what we all accept. In regards to this show, let's get into general stats and information. This show was created by John Griffin with the trailer, with a lot of the posters. They do they do talk about producers of Lost, and we've got more than one that was involved with Lost. Not necessarily the Lindelof, but I guess while we're here, go and check out our episode on The Hunt. For Betty Gilpin alone, really, in way of directors, we have Jack Bender involved in Lost from 2004 to 2010.

1:56KT: He also directed Child's Play 3. Oh, wow. Yeah. We also have Brad Turner who was involved in 24 from 2004 to 2010. Woo hoo. As well as a little bit of Homeland. In regards to writers, we have Javier Grillo-Marxuach. He was involved in Lost from 2004 to 2006. And I guess while we're here, Oti, while we're playing at home, Charmed from 1998

2:19KT: to 2000. Nice. Yeah. So I I guess that is a lot to say. And we also love Harold, and I'll come to the cast in a second. There is quite a heavy influence of Lost.

2:31Oti: There is enough. I didn't know about the producers jumping into the show. I didn't know about the creators. But it was mentioned in the trailer. Like, that was the pull to try and get people to watch this. I didn't see any of that, but you can tell immediately starting watching the show, you could feel the lostness of it. As Roy Wood junior would say, the residue. Mhmm. Mhmm. It definitely had heavy residue. And the fact that they wanted to like, they were so clear about, oh, no. This is not gonna end up like Lost.

3:04Oti: So be sure, be calm, relax, guys. It was very meta, like, Community level. It kinda felt like a secret world that Abed was imagining. Like they say, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, it's on us if we go knee deep into this show and they end up treating us like lost weebels.

3:22KT: I don't think that's going to fit on our Etsy page Oti. Oh, we can try.

3:27Oti: Enhance your stitching skills, mate.

3:31KT: This is where you insert me reciting the Chucky voodoo spell. This was released in February 2022. And again, we did mention it came from Epix in regards to the cast. We have Harold Perrineau, Catalina Sandino Moreno, and Eion Bailey. Mhmm. Wow. Wow. Wow. To be perfectly honest, Harold is a draw for me. Like to see Harold in something, I'm automatically gonna watch it. Oh, yeah. Even though I didn't last very long with Lost, he was definitely a highlight

4:03KT: of it and I'm not even

4:03Oti: He annoyed the hell out of me in Lost.

4:03KT: Well,

4:08KT: did he kind of remind you of like many many years ago when we watched American Idol and the dad was talking about how much he sacrificed to be a singer. That's why him and his little daughter were in a car and homeless.

4:19Oti: Yeah, idiot.

4:21KT: That is a pop culture reality TV show, deep cut, Friends and Lovers. And if anything, I think it will be Daniel Daddy Kim's cheekbones. Leave out Doona Bae alone. True that. True that. But, yeah, Harold is a big get for me. I I'm glad that we continue to see him in our screens whereby it be Lost, whereby it be Oz, whereby it be The Best Man. Mhmm. Hey, give me a Harold forehead kiss. I will take that over Taye Diggs any day. Oh, wow. Oh, yes. Don't worry. There were many poignant

4:58KT: Harold sex scenes in Oz that still keep me warm on a cold, cold night Oti. Wow. Okay. Okay. So let's get into this. We've kind of already alluded to Lost. So spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, forget about it, forget about it, forget about it. So all your first impressions, Oti. I think you were the one that introduced this show as something to watch. And obviously with Harold, we were going to give it a bit more muster than we probably would without any sort of gets.

5:29KT: So how did you feel about the show? How did you feel throughout? And I guess now that we've come to the end of the first season, how are you feeling generally?

5:29Oti: Harold was definitely the pull for me for this.

5:39Oti: I did wonder or I did worry a bit when I watched the pilot because it felt quite Lost-y. But they kept on mentioning it in a sort of made a way that, oh, no. This is not gonna end up like this.

5:39KT: I don't think the well, maybe it's it's been a while, but I feel like the pilot wasn't super Lost-y.

5:39Oti: But what I might need I to know I felt very Lost-y.

5:39KT: But then again, you've watched more than I have.

5:39Oti: So Yeah. And

5:39KT: You still feel the pain.

6:09Oti: And I didn't need any I did not I did not need another Lost in my life. I think once is enough to endure such shit.

6:17KT: But I think it I think it was also I wasn't entirely I don't think it was revealed to us that it was a sci fi sort of show at least, you know, deep into the pilot. So I was kinda confused because it felt like a sundown sort of town. So it was like, I was confusing to me that Harold was the one that was keeping everyone safe and it was all good. You see what I'm saying? Like, it gave me the sense of dread and something's going to go wrong.

6:46KT: And I wasn't necessarily sure what was going to happen, but we're talking about the Lost of it all. Could you suspend it enough to be able to enjoy it or it was kind of always at the forefront?

6:46Oti: It was at the forefront, but I still give it a go because I just wanna see where it heads.

7:05Oti: And the weird thing about it is every twist and turn that gets introduced into the show, it's something that I failed that I can draw parallel to with Lost. Yeah. And Without even trying. Yeah. Without even trying. And and I'm trying to suspend that from me so that I can fully enjoy it because I think Harold does a good job. I think there's something in there. I'm

7:26Oti: not sure they're gonna go the Lost route with this because a, they'll have to be fucking idiots. Yeah. So I I I'm in for it. I think it's quite interesting. I loved how it ended. It opens up season two to a whole lot possibilities as well. Yeah. You know, there's so many characters we've yet to experience

7:43Oti: or even get a backstory of, you know. We have this interesting character in, you know, someone like Victor where he you know that who wants to delve into his character, we've gotta just it's gotta be juicy ass. So I'm very interested in this. I don't really care about Boyd's son.

7:43KT: Ethan?

7:43Oti: Yeah. I think he's fucking spoilt as.

7:43KT: Okay. But it it was kind of a writing thing as well.

7:43Oti: Oh, for sure. It's it's stupid writing

8:12Oti: on their part.

8:12KT: Okay, that's bit muy caliente. Because given the nature of the show, there are some fairs just between the two of us that I want us to kind of dissect and kind of unpack. But it is interesting that you mentioned, I don't think there's anything wrong with not being able to separate it. It's kinda like nepotism in Hollywood. Right? There's no way that you can't acknowledge it.

8:12Oti: True.

8:12KT: So let's talk about theories. I wanna talk about theories because I was very strong in my theory in watching the show, and I felt reaffirmed

8:49KT: as we continued and we saw more storylines. What do you think is causing this sort of purgatory?

8:57Oti: It was all a dream.

8:57KT: Well,

9:02KT: they they they kind of they kind of joked about that, right, in the show

9:07KT: through the Matthews family.

9:07Oti: So I think they tried to dispel that, so we tried not to think about it. Yeah. There's definitely some mystical shit going on around the town. Part of me wants to believe that it's it's the mysticism of of being in a in a town where people find themselves in, well, driving around different parts in America, you know? Yeah. I want to believe that there's an element because we get to see bloody demons.

9:34Oti: Yeah. We have to sort of throw the realism out the window pretty quickly. But they weren't the sexy demons, like, from Supernatural, for example. Yeah. We don't get crawly, but, know That's the go to sexy demon. Okay. Oh, yeah. It is.

9:49KT: Castiel's a bit of a devil if I if I may say so myself.

9:49Oti: He's an he's an angel mate.

9:49KT: Alright. As much as Tom Hanks was in Angels and Demons.

9:49Oti: Oh, wow.

9:49KT: I think and I am correct because I agree with myself. I think that mentally, emotionally, people were fucking stuck and this became their purgatory

10:12KT: and they need to deal with the shit that they need to deal with in order to get out of it. Far be it from me, very close to me to ground this story out of its sci fi isms, but that's what I think this town is. Everyone is stuck. If we talk about Boyd, he's stuck because he had to shoot his wife.

10:12Oti: You if if the theory is people are stuck outside of their lives, that's how they found themselves here. Boyd only shot his wife when he was already in that town. So what what got him stuck there? Did he preempt to kill his wife before?

10:12KT: Didn't your dogma teach you that impure thoughts become actions?

10:46Oti: No.

10:50KT: It's it's an interesting take though. Actually actually, to be fair, I think the Stevens family already existed in that town, didn't they?

10:50Oti: No. They they they me, Victor, the preacher were all the way before Boyd.

10:50KT: Well, you were taught sounding very anti women to what I just said. Well, you know, like, I guess to give more examples, Kenny

11:12KT: with his dad specifically because he had dementia, like, he was stuck. Right? And emotionally, they were stuck. Like, even with the mom, like, she couldn't even deal with seeing her husband like that. So she was also stuck as well. It's a proverbial stockage, Oti.

11:27Oti: Maybe so. Then how do you explain Victor? Victor was there as a kid. Where was he stuck in his life that warranted him to be stuck in this place?

11:27KT: I don't know. He's kind of like Neo. He's kind of like the chosen one, isn't he?

11:27Oti: I I feel like he he fucking causing you all this. He's got some doomberly

11:46Oti: voodoo going on.

11:46KT: But can we say he's been the most useful and the most helpful?

11:46Oti: He has been the most

11:46KT: He's the one I would wanna be around if there was an emergency.

11:46Oti: Oh, yeah. If you get stuck and you can't leave a town and you're looking for the sanest person to get you out, you're doing something wrong. Yeah. Go for the wonky ass conspiracy theorist.

12:09Oti: Oh, no. Oh, oh, no. You have to go the whole nine yards. That's the person who'll get you out.

12:09KT: No. I'd rather stay on The Longest Yard with Nelly. Is that okay?

12:09Oti: You'll be eating Terry Crews's pants big burgers.

12:22KT: Speaking of anti women. There's your callback friends and lovers. You weren't expecting it, but there's your one two punch. I just I just thought it was interesting. I personally do believe it's an emotional mental purgatory.

12:37Oti: Yeah. I'll be disappointed if that's the thing. I just want it to be pure bloody sci fi and lean into the world. Yeah. If I'm tie if you want to tie this into realism and it being, oh, all these things I'm seeing are my dreams and my my insecurities. Fuck off. There's been enough of that shit. And if that's the case with this show, I'll

13:00Oti: I don't know. I'll never give any person involved in this show another go at all.

13:00KT: Wow.

13:00Oti: You have to draw the lines, mate.

13:00KT: TV shows can hurt you too, friends and lovers.

13:00Oti: Clearly.

13:12KT: Okay. Well, let's do some more theorizing. The the I guess you called them demons. I just they literally just look like humans to me.

13:12Oti: What do you eating you, mate.

13:12KT: So but what do you think they are? And I guess you're staying in the sci fi world. Right? What do you think they are? And what do you think causes them? Do you think they're like a Jordan Peele's Us situation? Do you think they're genuinely some sort of mythical

13:36KT: creature that happened to very lazily production wise look like humans? Like, what do you think they are?

13:36Oti: It's the luring. They lure you. You know? We had this character

13:47Oti: who was falling in love with a demon because she looked human. You know? He was trying to get his. Oh, it wasn't a Kimiko san pillow. Fucking human sexuality shit, man. Trying to do every good thing fucking hard to have sex involved in this somehow or the promise of

13:47KT: Friends and lovers, get your preorders in. We're starting a For Your Reference kink advent calendar.

14:13Oti: But they lure you in because they look like humans. They they they trick you and they play on your on your sense of, you know, oh, they've gotta help me or they're just like us. And then the

14:13KT: So they're kinda like shape us or

14:13Oti: Just demons. It hasn't it doesn't have to be that complicated. It doesn't have to. What did you never go to Sunday school and you're taught that, oh, how does Satan look like? Satan looks like you.

14:39Oti: Your teacher never say that?

14:39KT: No. But I think

14:39Oti: Yeah. Well, then again, that was a white preacher telling me that. So I don't know.

14:39KT: Again.

14:48KT: Again, you need to consider the messenger.

14:51Oti: Yeah. I I really don't think it's deeper than that. I just want it to be sci fi. Okay. That's the base of it. Okay. Let there be demons. Let there be bloody weird spiders that spin their webs around the forest, you know, like, I don't know. Just give me that. Okay. Something wrong with that. Yeah. It's like trying to find meaning or like watching Doctor Who and thinking, oh, are those really aliens or are those my insecurities? No, motherfucker.

15:20KT: You know what? You're you don't intend to, but you're starting to sound like those people that get angry at the black elves. They might be confused why you're saying the same things they're saying, but you're sounding like the Moti. Okay. I think that's enough. I think that's enough theories out of the way. Let's talk about Victor because I think he's one of the most compelling characters out of this TV show. Obviously, you wouldn't know it going in, but there is an evolution,

15:55KT: not necessarily of Victor, but more so of the reveals to us as the audience as to how instrumental he is to this world, and he might even be the creation of this world.

15:55Oti: It's his Kolob. He's got his own planet, bro. Yeah. Definitely

16:11Oti: a creation of this world in my thinking. He's been there for the longest.

16:11KT: Do think he's a victim or do you think he's a creator?

16:11Oti: I think a bit of column A, column B stuff. I think he's he started off as a victim, but it slowly transitioned into him playing a part in what the place is all about.

16:11KT: Do you think like Justin Bieber, Victor gets his peaches down in Georgia?

16:11Oti: Oh, yeah. Georgia peach, mate.

16:11KT: Nice.

16:11Oti: But because he reveals

16:38Oti: secrets of this place that no one else knows. Yes. And the fact that and the only people that he revealed this secret to, especially with the tree, is Julie and Ethan,

16:49Oti: who don't fucking say anything to anyone. Yeah. A tree that teleports you anywhere Yeah. And you're like sitting on that shit. I can I can understand Ethan maybe trying to keep it a secret? He probably he even mentioned it and I think the dad just took it as he's just saying shit. But Julie, come on now.

16:49KT: Yeah. Because it's not like we had James McAvoy distracting us in his hot shirtlessness and his red scarf and Narnia.

17:15KT: But you're right. Like, that's some trippy shit. You should probably tell someone. You escaped monsters by jumping into a tree and you found yourself

17:24KT: somewhere else

17:24Oti: Yeah. And you keep that shit to yourself. It defies all imagination.

17:30KT: It's wild. It is wild. And I I did I did get a bit frustrated with Jim. Like, it's understandable because he's a father and he has children. And especially with his young son, he doesn't want him hanging around seemingly weird older man as in Victor that walks around with his lunchbox. Like, understand the optics

17:54KT: aren't great, but Jim was very mean to Victor and I didn't like it. But then I think in that next scene, we find the gun in the lunchbox. So it's like, he's not helping. He's not helping himself.

17:54Oti: Yeah. He definitely did help himself. I can understand Jim's perspective though. Yeah. Ethan has been through so much in this show. Yeah. I'm like, are they using him as a sofa of this? Is there any sofa?

17:54KT: The Shield. Go and check out our Shield episode.

17:54Oti: Here's a bloody battling round,

18:24Oti: you know? If you want anything bad to hop and throw it at Ethan. Like, do you like kids or what? Yeah. We'll just get a spike to to, you know, go through your leg. You know, we'll get someone to just try and kill you. Yeah. Oh, bloody hell. He went through a lot. Like Victor was the least of his worries.

18:24KT: Oh, for sure.

18:44KT: So so what do you think? Because the one of the scenes that we had as a sort of flashback, I don't think it was clear whether he was part of it, but he came to a decimated town. Like everyone was dead and it was just him playing on that little swing thing.

18:44Oti: Yeah. But then he sees this little kid ghost,

19:04Oti: if I can call it that, that tries that befriends him Yeah. And even gives him hints or gives him a heads up that, oh, there's gonna be trouble. Or even helps him along the way. Like, even when the colony house got invaded, it's the kid ghost that was like, oh, Victor, this way. Come this way. Yeah. So I am really eager to get more because we've not seen Victor since. He he escaped the colony. Yeah. And I think that that's the biggest tell of this.

19:04KT: No. No. No. No. No. No.

19:36KT: See Victor at the last episode when Tabitha falls through the falls through the

19:36Oti: Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. And he's he's like a little guardian along the way. He's like, oh, this is where they sleep.

19:49Oti: They told me you would or I knew you would be here. He's the creepiest man, buddy.

19:49KT: Is he the creepiest or has he been through the most?

19:49Oti: He's been through the most but

19:49KT: He's the most tepid for this world. Yeah. Yeah. Whether he created it or otherwise, but but when to quote Woodhouse from Archer tripping balls Yeah. When Jade was tripping balls, he ended up like kind of I don't know what that American thing is where they have like stairs

20:19KT: underground where it kinda looks like a basement but it's not attached to a house. He goes in there and I think he gets a glimpse of not Victor, but the kid that was telling Victor what to do all those years ago. He saw a kid there. So there's gotta be some sort of cataclysmic happenings that is connecting these storylines in this world.

20:19Oti: Maybe so.

20:40Oti: But him being a dickhead, I'm being the most annoying. Rude, offensive.

20:40KT: Arrogant. Yeah. Thoughtless.

20:50Oti: It's all of those things. But at least he's trying to find a way to get out, you know, it's

20:50KT: Okay. Let's talk about this because this is a bit frustrating to me. Friends and lovers, for those that have unfortunately had to dabble and navigate in the corporate world, we've all experienced consultants coming on board that don't know what the fuck they're talking about and just think that they're going to solve all of the problems without understanding the context, without even acknowledging

21:17KT: that they were possibly attempts to try and do this already. He was very dismissive.

21:23Oti: He was dismissive, but no one's really tried to look for solutions though. And I get it that most of it is it's, oh, let's survive. Let's get through to well, when it gets introduced to the Matthews family, they have been safe without incident for almost ninety days. So I think that was the agenda. Let's just get through a night without getting fucking killed. Yeah. And that's understandable for anyone.

21:47Oti: Yeah. So I don't I don't begrudge them that, oh, they're just trying to live day to day. But it takes a newcomer to be like, hey, mate, this is not right. Let's try and figure out. Let's try and figure out a way to get out of this place or even understand

22:03Oti: a little bit about how this place works.

22:03KT: Okay. I just wanted on the record that he was a thoughtless dickhead and he should have appreciated

22:11KT: that everyone brought value.

22:11Oti: But that's just a lie you give you tell people. That's a participation trophy. Not everyone brings value.

22:11KT: Okay. Well, we know that I'm going to end up at Colony House and you can fuck off then.

22:11Oti: You just wanna have orgies.

22:24Oti: That's all.

22:24KT: It's alright. I wanna give my peaches to Victor. What do you want? Cans or otherwise. Oh, wow. Okay. Okay. That's enough about Jade, I don't really care about him. I wanna talk about the priest. He was frustrating to me because again, I don't really need to hear these judgmental sounds and messages of comfort, especially during such dire times. But Father Khatri was frustrating to me, especially near the end of his arc because he

23:00KT: was so ardent on the fact that they needed to maintain order in this chaotic sort of world, right? That's why he was reinforcing to Boyd that Frank had to go into the box. They had never used that box or the shoe. They had never used it before, but he needed to follow through on his word, right? Because it's going to create chaos. He needs to follow through. That was the order of punishment. He stayed out drunk. His wife and kid died as a result of it. Even though personally,

23:31KT: if we're talking about equality, why didn't the wife lock up the house? Not really. If we wanna talk about true equality, I'll take the garbage out, Oti. It all counts. It all adds up in equality. Right? Mhmm. But in any sense, his actions or lack of caused his loved ones, his wife and his kid to die in the most gruesome of ways, by the way. Yeah.

23:55KT: It made sense that he would have to, you know, like he would have to face the punishment and Boyd would have to follow through. And he wasn't necessarily won over on it, but Father Khatri made it clear to him, don't be no punk ass bitch.

24:09KT: So

24:12KT: that was made very clear. Okay? There needed to be some sort of order to things. Cool, fine, whatever. And then later on in the season,

24:21KT: he like keeps Sara in the basement.

24:21Oti: Rightly so though. I think how you appreciate what the characters doing this show says more about who you are as a person because I think Oh, hey. Wow. Wow. I think you're the kind of person that's like, you know what? Fuck it. Day by day, that's it. Instead of, hey, let's try and find a bloody solution to get out of this bloody mess. Yeah, suppose.

24:46KT: But we already established I'll be having peach orgies with Victor in the colony house. So I wouldn't really necessarily care about getting out of there, would I?

24:46Oti: True true.

24:46KT: But I am a fully realized human being so I wouldn't be in mental purgatory anyway. Oh, wow. Yeah. I just divergent matrix myself out of that.

25:06Oti: But I do understand the father's insisted on trying to keep her in the basement because if she communicates with these whatever things or they communicate with her

25:06KT: Convenient.

25:18KT: I bet you if that drunk man was like, oh, I'm hearing voices.

25:18Oti: Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, you've got to try every anything and everything.

25:18KT: And besides, all of Sara's messages is to kill everything,

25:34KT: especially the boy. So wasn't that drunk man just fulfilling the prophecy then?

25:34Oti: Maybe so. But you need to at least try and follow wherever this road will take you down. Yeah. And if these messages keep on coming, you want to be able to say, hey, at least I investigated

25:53Oti: what this is. And if it's bullshit, throw in the lockbox, you know? Let it get eaten. It doesn't matter. But at least you tried. Not knowing is what gets you.

25:53KT: But I'm saying also don't poo poo the people that are just trying to get through the fucking day.

25:53Oti: I don't know poo pooing them. It's it's a choice. And to me, at least, I think, I don't know. I'll find it very, very hard to go on day by day watching seeing people die every day and not know if this is it.

25:53KT: Man, I'll be living it up in my Truman Show then.

26:26KT: Skipping around, having my own dance numbers. Mhmm. Interesting. So so you think Sara has a lot more to offer?

26:26Oti: Yeah. I do.

26:26KT: So you think Sara, Victor,

26:36KT: and Ethan are the ones to bring us home?

26:36Oti: They're definitely holding the key.

26:36KT: Okay.

26:36Oti: Whether or not people open the doors, I walk through, that's a whole situation.

26:46KT: Hopefully, they'll get addressed in season two. Well, I I guess because we still need to talk about more characters, but it's relevant to what you just said. How long can you stretch out this premise? We kind of need to have something to keep us going. Like, we can't continue to dwindle around in this cycle for millions of seasons.

26:46Oti: No. It can no longer be shadows.

27:07Oti: It can no longer be the team chasing shadows.

27:10Oti: We need the big bad to show up or at least to know what it is. Yep. If it's just not the because they're they're insinuating that it's not just the demons at night. There's something bigger that they should all be scared of. Uh-huh. So what's this something bigger? What's the what's why should Boyd be afraid of delving farther into the forest? You know? I think

27:10KT: Oh, and he heard his wife's voice. So sad.

27:10Oti: Yeah. And I think that's what that's the answers that I want to be addressed in season two. And it's very tricky with this show because it can they can continue

27:41Oti: pulling the thread very, very slowly with this to the point where it it would feel a bit lacklost. And hopefully, it doesn't get to that point where we get our answers pretty quickly and expand

27:53Oti: more, even do something else.

27:53KT: Yeah. I agree. I absolutely agree. I want to talk about Boyd and I wanna talk about Ellis. First of all, I think can we establish that he's in his early twenties at least? He is too old to be carrying on like that.

27:53Oti: He is.

27:53KT: Constantly blaming his father, giving him the cold shoulder. And that was even before it was all revealed to us. Yeah. I was like, okay. I was very curious

28:20KT: what Boyd would have done to deserve all that hate. Yeah. Because there were little comments along the way about how he chose the town over his wife, which first of all, isn't actually true. He chose his son over his wife. Yep. But even then, it was made to sound as if neglected his wife.

28:41Oti: Yeah. He neglected his wife and son. And I thought, okay. So what did Boyd do the whole time? Did he just chuck I thought he will he just checked out. I thought he wanted to involve himself in the town's issues, so he doesn't have to focus on his own,

28:58Oti: but that's not the case.

28:58KT: No. It's just like his his family, the the people that he loves the most, they're never going to be safe until they're actually safe. Yeah. So he was focusing on big picture sort of stuff. Right? Yeah. And he's the one that found those ornaments that keep the demons out anyway. Yeah. The first night he's been there and he's been more helpful than anyone in the town. Yeah. And it's all undone by his son. Yeah. So let's talk about it.

29:24Oti: When it's revealed how the wife died, how did you feel about that?

29:29KT: I felt ripped off mostly in the sense, again, I'm going off the assumption that Ellis is in his early twenties. Because all of this time he's had a chip on his shoulder, he's had a begrudgement, Although all of it transpired in front of his eyes. He saw his mom ready to shoot him. Whether he couldn't reconcile with the fact that his mom would follow through with it, that's a whole different conversation. But he did see with his own eyes his mom pointing a gun in his direction. Right? Yeah. Intentional otherwise,

30:03KT: that is what he saw. So to to to not have any sort of conflict and to be so ready to dump all of his complex sort of emotions onto Boyd was absolutely not fair.

30:03Oti: It wasn't. It wasn't. I was like

30:03KT: There was no ambiguity about it. Your mom was about to shoot you, so he saved you. Like, I don't understand what the problem is.

30:03Oti: Yeah. I I was really angry with that plot reveal. Was like, these bastards. Because we also we we already didn't like Gelliss.

30:32Oti: Yeah. And it just made him more hateable. And I'm sitting there thinking, what the fuck? Why would this be the reason why he's treating his dad so shit Yeah. When your girlfriend Fatima is has seen her parents get butchered in front of her when she was a baby. Can we acknowledge that Fatima deserves

30:50Oti: way more than Ellis? And it takes Fatima to tell him, hey, pull your hand out of your fucking ass Yeah. And realize that your father is not always gonna be there. Yeah. He's done his fucking utmost best. He's also struggling with the fuck. Can you imagine how much pain he feels having to shoot his own bloody fucking wife for this idiot spoilt Fucking

31:13Oti: hell.

31:13KT: Why do people have fucking babies? Jesus fucking Christ. Well, friends and lovers, we say parents can fuck you up like nobody else, but sometimes the kids are fucking the parents up. Just wild. Just like there's no redeemable quality about Ellis and it was fucking frustrating. And even on Fatima's big night, he made it all about himself carrying on wanting to fight people, Russell Crowe, South Park style, fighting around the world with Tugger. Oh, I'm drunk. I have the most problems.

31:44KT: My father saved me. I can't even think how hot that is on me. Fuck right off.

31:44Oti: Yeah. Bloody Ellis can get in the bin. Yeah. Jay Ellis too.

31:44KT: No. We appreciate Jay Ellis for who he is. Oti is also stuck in the purgatory of Jay Ellis apparently.

32:01KT: Go and check out our Insecure episodes while we're here friends and lovers. Yeah. But Ellis yeah. There's there's no redeemable qualities. Ellis is my least liked character out of this TV show. Tabitha would be a second. But

32:16Oti: I think Tabitha has some redeeming qualities that Ellis you can't just think of anything about Ellis that has, you know? Yes. Now Ellis has forgiven his father. And whatever fuck that means to you. But I think the line's already drawn for him ages ago. Tabitha,

32:37Oti: it took a while for her to get in on the world. Yeah. But at least now she's fully in, she's way in. She fell all the way in. Yeah. And you know what? What do we usually say? Embrace the bloody world you're in. Yeah. And you're all in it. Mhmm.

32:37KT: Did you think that we're going to get any sort of signal at the end of season one?

32:37Oti: I did. I just didn't expect the signal to be that. Yeah.

33:01Oti: I think it's trippy that you're trying so hard to get a signal and you think that, hey, you can reach the outside world, only for you to get a signal that tells, you know, from a man behind the mirror being, hey, what the fuck are you doing? Now you're all gonna die. Yeah.

33:17KT: I think it's better not not not to have looked for the signal rather than get that message. Well, it's like it was like in many cases, they were aware of the fact that they were going to die in some shape or form. But to be told that on the other side of a radio signal, probably not the best. Yeah. Some something I will say, I I would say the MVP

33:40KT: and the the unexpected MVP of the show is Donna. Mhmm. The head of the colony house. She hasn't really given me a reason to, but I'm rooting for her. And I wanna know more about her back story, how she got there.

33:40Oti: I understand. I think I liked Donna as well. I just didn't like her reaction to dealing with the fallout of the colony house. In as much as it's understandable,

34:00Oti: I felt like she just leaned too much into it, especially for someone who's seen a lot of people die for this to be the one that, oh, is worth anything. I'm gonna throw my toys out the pram. May, you know, you are in charge of the colony house. You didn't know what was going on. You'd see flower arrangements out in the patio. You won't do anything about it. You just thought it was some mishmash. I don't know. It just

34:00KT: Boo.

34:00Oti: I'm not blaming her.

34:00KT: Boo.

34:29KT: Can she not have a moment of human vulnerability?

34:33KT: How dare you?

34:33Oti: No. She can. Not at the expense of everyone else. She started being a dick to everyone. I'm like, okay. I understand you've lost people, but this is when they need you most. I don't know, mate. Like, I don't know.

34:33KT: It's, you know, you sitting here in your podcast

34:49KT: ivory tower talking about dire circumstances.

34:53Oti: I don't know, bro. It's it's exactly what Boyd was telling Kenny. For you to be a leader, you don't you can't afford to have moments of weakness.

34:53KT: Boo.

34:53Oti: Public, quick like, it's

34:53KT: Toxic masculinity, boo.

34:53Oti: Go behind the bloody you know, go to the bar. Cry yourself to, you know, early morning or whatever.

34:53KT: How is any of that healthy?

34:53Oti: It probably isn't, but that's the that's the that's the role, isn't it?

34:53KT: Okay.

34:53Oti: You'll lose. Display the facade for everyone else, but even though you know deep down, you're breaking,

35:25Oti: it's what you have to do.

35:25KT: There's a beauty in vulnerability

35:29KT: Oti.

35:29Oti: Vulnerability smash my billy bitty.

35:29KT: Oh, vulnerability smash my hillbilly, hey? I don't know. I give even fictional characters the grace of human vulnerability. Oti, not so much apparently.

35:47Oti: Not that. I think I just expected her to handle it differently.

35:52Oti: That's all.

35:52KT: They can't all be victors, mate. Some of them are grappling with some human experiences.

36:01Oti: Yeah. Yeah. You know, Kenny has lost a lot and

36:01KT: Love Kenny.

36:01Oti: And as much as you see him struggling with it, at least he's trying to put up a facade. Like, I'm gonna lead this town. I'm gonna try and step up because Boyd's not gonna be here every single time. I really endorse this facade, by the way. I just think it's necessary. It's a necessary evil for you to get people from point a to b. Remember when we watched Promised Neverland? Yeah. It wasn't about, oh, let's

36:31Oti: the world is scary and let's lose all your shit. He knew. He knew what was going on. It's not telling the other kids of, oh, hey, this is what's going down. It's about, okay, cool. I'm gonna lose my shit privately, but I'm gonna have this facade and I'm gonna lead you out of this place because if I don't do it, we're all gonna bloody die.

36:31KT: Nah.

36:52KT: I'm not about suppressing information. I don't know about Oti's dossier.

36:57Oti: He'll never be a politician, mate.

37:00KT: And I take that to the highest esteem in my pussy valley. Unless I'm Mayor Tidell Ruffin in P-Valley or unless I'm Duda in The Shy or unless I'm Temptations Ruffin or otherwise, ain't nobody come to see you, Otis.

37:17Oti: Wow. Okay. You know, you do you. I'm just saying for the greater good, people don't need to know everything because they'll lose their shit and nothing will be done.

37:17KT: Friends and lovers, I just wanna hearken back to Oti

37:29KT: reciting the scriptorial colonizer oppressors because that kind of frames everything you're saying. I'm a prodigal, you bloody walkmate. Hey, we're gonna take your land. We're gonna take human remains of your relatives and put it in the British fucking museum but I'm not gonna tell you for the greater good. Fuck off. I'm fucking Killmonger up in this bitch. Okay. Okay. You gotta catch these hands, Oti. Who else? Who else haven't we covered that you want to talk about?

37:29Oti: Those are weird storyline where I'm Julie being attracted to Fatima and

38:03Oti: whatever.

38:04KT: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm ready for this. Friends and lovers, monogamous and otherwise. Just because Fatima is attracted or you know, will indulge with a woman, it doesn't mean by default she's attracted to you, Julie. What the fuck was that shit?

38:04Oti: Yeah, I don't know man. She had some mad incel quality fam. She was she was in that simple lifeblood. It was just weird.

38:04KT: And then it just soured everything and it's like,

38:40KT: she doesn't owe you anything.

38:40Oti: Yeah. I don't even think they've had a scene together since that.

38:40KT: Yeah. No one no one no one is obliged to your affections. Mhmm. Yikes. Unless you're Victor. Because he gets his peaches from KT Georgia. Yeah. That's right. Thank you for joining us friends and lovers to another week. And in this world, week of another week of another week. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference,

39:12KT: Oti.

39:12Oti: I'm gonna reference Shining Vale. We have Courteney Cox, Kinnear here. It's bloody amazing.

39:12KT: Lead with Kinnear, always how dare you?

39:12Oti: I'm a product of Friends.

39:24KT: Yeah. Unfortunately, it shows.

39:27Oti: I was very trepidatious about whether or not it's something we would watch, but wow. I think it's turning out to be one of the surprise hits of 2022

39:36Oti: for me at least.

39:36KT: Oh, it's brilliant, wonderful, beautiful, amazing. Mhmm. I will reference probably the opposite of beautiful, wonderful, amazing,

39:47KT: Oz.

39:47Oti: It is everything you've just said it's not.

39:52KT: No, but it is fucking high time we cover Oz, Oti.

39:55Oti: Yeah. You want to see every little bit of Schillinger nonsense.

40:00KT: Beecher and otherwise. Mhmm. No. Because you you keep saying it's been too soon for a rewatch and we're fucking due for a wee For a wee walk, wee doc. Wow, imagine a wee work in a Oz environment, the privatized jail edition. I'd be so happy. You would like prison, Oti.

40:24Oti: Indeed, I would.

40:29KT: Wow. If you would like to indeed know more of what Oti enjoys on Twitter and Instagram, we're at ForYourRefPod. Right. That's an email at hello fyrpodcast dot com. We're also on lost but not lost, still lost, getting lost podcast if you like to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.