Force – Seven Deadly Flynns

Full transcript of Force – Seven Deadly Flynns.

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, but it's the last ever so delicious, delightful offering. Welcome to Power August, friends and lovers, where we will catch you up on all of the offerings in the multifaceted Power universe. Hey, friends and undefeated, Egan lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT

0:47Oti: and Oti

0:48KT: Navigate Gangs of Dublin through way of Chicago. Open your heart to familial love with the Power universe's Force or as black Twitter would say Tommy this week,

1:02Oti: mm-hmm

1:04KT: Woohoohoo, uh, friends and lovers, hopefully you're enjoying the Power run that we have. Um, most recently we did cover Raising Kanan and I did go through the general stats information. So I'm not necessarily going. Right now, I think, you know, we're ready for the whole length of Force if you're nasty.

1:22Oti: need.

1:23KT: Oh, for sure. Uh, well, let's, let's talk about it. Let's talk about all of the things. Um, we did get a little bit of instances of Tommy throughout the Ghost sort of seasons, but this is really, um, you know, the next sort of chapter in Tommy's book. Uh, oh, if you pardon the pun after, you know, the events and the fallout, and especially after his shot, Ghost love of his.

1:48Oti: Mm-hmm

1:49KT: So, so let's talk generally about Tommy's character, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, Christmas, Christmas, Christmas. Uh, let's just talk generally about how we left the end of Power with Tommy's character. And I guess also how we meet him in this show.

2:07Oti: so we love Tommy he's one of the fan faves. It's especially when he had, they're gonna do a spinoff. It was one of the shows that I wanted it to be the first

2:16KT: one. Yeah. Even before T and I it was a no

2:19Oti: brainer.

2:19KT: Yeah. Liket give it Tommy all day but you know what, uh, good things come to those who wait and while it was. I thought that I could not love this anymore than I did, but wow. It's, it's just amazing seeing Tom navigated without being, without feeling like he's being checked or he has to put, you know, he has to run something by Ghost or anything like that. Yeah. We just seeing him

2:40KT: in his element, making all decisions by himself and what he does and what he knows, and wow. It creates such a great atmosphere and he just wanna be in it. like he literally just implanted himself into Chicago without any sort of connections.

2:55KT: And I think that's what we absolutely love about Tommy. And to be perfectly honest, you know, I praise a lot of penmanship and there's obviously a lot of sharpened penmanship, um, in this show, but I would literally watch Tommy do anything. If I can borrow an Atlanta. Almost final season, but if I can borrow an Atlanta reference, I would watch Tommy go to France and pretend to be Tarrare.

3:19KT: maybe I wouldn't have been as frustrated if he was the Tarrare character. Um, but yeah, I just, I love, I love everything about Tommy and you know, I obviously you can relate it to real life. CRA is bad. Drugs are bad, but if we're also gonna talk about that, we should also talk about systemic structures and lack of employment and opportunities.

3:42KT: But no one wants to talk about that, cuz it's not sexy. So let's just focus on the fact that we fucking love Tommy. Yes, he has homicidal sort of, um, tendencies, but it's such a mu experience to watch Tommy. Um, you know, even when he accidentally killed someone falling off of the roof in. He's just so much fun.

4:03KT: He's just so much fun and I absolutely love it. Um, and, and you are absolutely right. You know, the Oti crypto bros of it all. He was very bankable. Like it was a given that we were going to love a Tommy show. Um, but fortune favors. Matt Damon.

4:18Oti: Yeah. Tommy, apparently

4:21KT: Chicago is Matt Damon So let's cover the themes that we've been covering all throughout Power August.

4:30KT: Let's talk about legacy. Um, I guess the, the difference with Tommy's character is we're not necessarily getting a future, um, like a forward future or, or a backwards sort of past, it's kind of just Tommy as he. In the Power sort of timeline. So I guess when we talk about legacy, um, I guess what, what, what do you, what do you think is the trajectory for Tommy aside from the fact that again, if there's no character growth for Tommy, I'm absolutely fine with that, but I guess sort of for the legacy that he's laying out, you know, what do you in capture for his character?

5:07Oti: I think he, he has to be tied with, um, JP and D-Mac.

5:13KT: We're introduced to JP who's, um, Tommy brother. Yeah. Wild wild.

5:19Oti: Yeah. And you know, he is his struggling for money. Tommy is there's like, he just don't wanna do this shit. You know, he doesn't wanna bring him to their life, but he's keen, he's eager and you know what?

5:31KT: He's a grown ass man. He's gonna make his own decisions. Yeah. But his hand will still be in Tommy's pocket. So how grown ass of a man is he?

5:39Oti: I, I meant it more in terms of him trying to get into the game and Tommy trying to keep him out. Um, but yeah, like it's interesting to just see all that unfold and the fact that D-Mac or Tommy knew that D-Mac existed and it was his nephew.

5:52KT: It was so interesting to see that sort of, um, the glow in Tommy's eyes seeing, oh man, I've got family. Yeah. And we, we talked about it when we were covering the final season of Power, you know, even in the very early seasons of Power, Tommy would always be around, you know, for breakfast, having sipping on his orange juice and really just enjoying spending time with Tasha and the kids.

6:17KT: And I guess Ghost was there in the background as well. But. Tommy really craved, you know, not even just the functioning, but he craved some sort of family unit. And that's obviously not what Kate gave him and to know, and to find out that he actually has a brother. I think the way that he found out was very fucked up, but it was very on brand for Kate.

6:40KT: But also at the same time who Kate is as a person doesn't necessarily give like an excuse for Tommy and who he is and the decision he makes. But again, because Tommy and I just love, like, obviously he does some shitty, terrible things, but at the core of it, for those that he loves, he'll always go hard for.

7:00Oti: Mm-hmm

7:01KT: So you kind of, you kind of already talked about the next sort of theme. We're talking about a, a brotherhood with JP and I kind of wanna dig a little bit deeper into that sort of dynamic. Um, do you think, do you think there are any sort of parallels or maybe some contrasting opposites of his dynamic with JP compared to Ghost?

7:22Oti: Yeah. Ghost is a killer Ghost. Is, uh, someone you don't joke around with, you know, he's been through pretty much what Tommy has been through since they were kids.

7:32Oti: Yeah. While JP, he is been on the out, you know, he's had his dad who take care of him. Yeah. Um, he's always had that family member and he's taking that responsibility. Now look after the dad and you know, everything. Yeah.

7:46Oti: Even though everything's falling apart and they're struggling to get that money. It's still there. So there's a lot of things that is so completely opposite to what Ghost is. And yeah, it, it's weird to see that Tommy is now the baddest person in that relationship, you know,

8:03KT: well, you know, we already talked about spoilers and because I really want to talk about the brotherhood. Um, I really want to come to like near the end. Season one. Um, and I wanna talk about the decisions that were being made because up until this point, I don't think JP was aware that D-Mac was his son. Right.

8:22Oti: He's an idiot though, you know,

8:24KT: do you think he should have known,

8:26Oti: he

8:26KT: should have realized something's up. He just thought the same kid would come up and throw bricks through his window. Do shit to him just because, yeah. Nah, come on now. I do find that a bit unbelievable, but maybe as we start to learn a bit more about JP or maybe it was just preoccupied with all of the shit that he had to deal with, I have no idea about, but there was, there was absolutely an instance that really fucking frustrated me, especially about JP.

8:54KT: When, first of all, Apparently JP, like you said, like the clues were there and Ag, Agatha Christie, he was not, um, like the clues were there. He chose not to see it, but he directed his anger. When D-Mac was in hospital, he directed his anger at Tommy thought feelings. I want to talk about it.

9:14Oti: Yes. Stupidly. So he didn't, you didn't know he was your son.

9:18KT: You didn't care. Yeah. You know, Tommy yes. And knew a day or two days prior, but that doesn't mean he has to tell you immediately. But why are you getting mad over something that you didn't even know that you

9:28Oti: Uhhuh and your, and side is in the game?

9:31KT: Yeah, he's embedded bro.

9:33Oti: He's

9:34KT: embedded. Stop. Trying to pretend to, if it's all Tommy's fault, he's been there for a. It's not him. The blame is solely on you, you know, and you can always argue, or he didn't know about the kid or whatever the clues were there.

9:46KT: There's obviously a lot that has to be worked through, but I guess that's also proof that they are biological brother. Just dealing with it, um, in very wonky ways, but, um, you know, D-Mac is, he brings, I guess, a new sort of found hope maybe even for Tommy, you know, to, you know, that sort of, um, relationship that he had with Tariq. Maybe that's something that, you know, he can have with D-Mac. The brotherhood is interesting. Um, you know, but there was something a bit frust, I don't know.

10:17KT: Didn't I didn't gel with JP's character, I think is what I'm saying, because everything I'm saying about him, I didn't necessarily care for like him telling Tommy like, oh, you know, I wanna Mount up. I wanna be, it's like BR you weren't made for this. And even if you were, you know, going to be made for this, you aren't now.

10:36KT: So just do the safe shit, get the easy money. And he is like, oh, I don't want charity. And it's like, bro, you're not useful right now. So if if anything, you are likes figures by you staying out of the way, you are adding a lot of value.

10:52Oti: He wanted to learn how to fish, darling.

10:57KT: I don't know. I'm not saying that like keep him away or maybe, I don't know. I don't know, Oti, maybe this is a manifestation of toxic masculinity. Maybe he felt like he needed to be out in the street in order to prove that he could get the easy money, but in any. He was just going to get in the way.

11:17Oti: Nah, I just think he was, he, he dug himself in such a deep hole in debt that if Tommy continue just giving you money, they'll always be, he'll always ask you for

11:25KT: handouts over and over. And no one wants to do that. So it's like, you know what might as well try and be in the game and get it for myself. And that's respectable. Yeah. But that's also nepotism because where did he, where did he prove that he deserved to be where he is? He literally just got the spot because he's Tommy's brother.

11:42Oti: and that's why we love Nepo

11:44KT: yes. And we'll talk about Jenard in a second. Um, but let's move on to the next one. We've kind of already talked about family education. I don't think necessarily, unless we're talking about like street smarts, like I don't think that necessarily applies to Force, but let's talk about the king pins. We have, we, we essentially have three different forces.

12:05KT: If you pardon the pun. Um, we've got the. Which we'll come to. We've also got Diamond's crew, um, and there, there's obviously a divide within that as well. Um, and then we've also got the Serbs that, um, kind of, kind of become the through line, you know, from Power into Force. And, you know, you see the ramifications of decisions that were made previously in Power, um, coming into Force as well.

12:32KT: Um, and then I guess you can also talk about the fulfillment. You can also talk about Tommy, literally being a so. State in Chicago. you know, Tommy's always going to look after number one. Um, and I guess also JP and D-Mac, they're a part of that, um, kindling of a family, but let's, let's talk about the king pins. Uh, do you wanna start with Diamond's crew or do you wanna talk about the Flynns from Dublin

12:55Oti: start with our Dublin brothers

12:58KT: Um, if you haven't heard us reference it in the Power August, friends and lovers go and check out Kin as well as our Kin episode that we have. Let's talk about Walter Flynn. Uh, you know, as far as we understand, they're not necessarily, um, you know, Grown roots inside of America.

13:17KT: They've felt very first generation Irish into Chicago as like, it's not like a, a Godfather lineage of, of, of peeps. Um, so, so, so let's get a bit of a feeling about Walter Flynn's character. I think the most impressionable sort of, um, initial introduction. To Walter was Tommy coming to him because Vic was on his fuckboy shit.

13:42KT: And like Tommy had to like, you know, um, pick up the pieces with that. So at least for me, I was getting the impression that Walter has a couple of incompetent children. Um, I also believe I'm just gonna say now that Claudia is also incompetent and she's useless. I don't think it's just because she's a woman.

14:01KT: She was put to the side. Um, but. My, my Wonder Woman feelings aside. Um, let's talk about Walter Flynn. What did you think first of all, the way he was introduced to the show and how did you think he was as a patriarch?

14:15Oti: I knew I wouldn't like him from the get go

14:17Oti: because he's very old school. Okay. You know, he is very stick to, with our kind sort of fella, Wow. Even when you say it, it's got a venom

14:27Oti: no, I, I just knew his vibe, he's old school, Irish.

14:31KT: We don't take can or can around her.

14:33Oti: Yeah. And you know what, the minute they in, like they introduced Diamond going to meet him. Like that scene was so crazy. And I, it was exactly what I expected

14:44KT: But didn't didn't you see in the TV series? Kin, there were so many black people.

14:49Oti: Yeah. Surprisingly, you thought they would've gotten used to it.

14:52KT: and they were just existing. They were just existing and not being racially. Vilified.

14:56Oti: Yeah. What, what would would've thought?

14:58KT: But not in Chicago.

15:00Oti: Mm-hmm nah, no,

15:02KT: I draw a land somewhere. okay. Well, racism aside, do you feel like he was, you know, at least efficient cause we've the, the king pins we've talked about. Um, you know, we've talked about Raq, we've talked about Monet. Um, and I think you can even talk about Toka as well. Um, in Ghost, we don't really have anyone to look forward to from a kingpin point of view, except for maybe Unique. Um, how do you feel he stacks up? Do you think he's quite competent racism aside.

15:29Oti: he's semi competent. I think he's still stuck. Old way of getting money, back then worked.

15:35KT: I'm just gonna do cocaine and that's it. Yeah. You know, even when Black Dahlia was introduced, I was like, nah, that shit is a fad. It'll go out. It'll go away in a few. Let's continue doing what we do. if it was called Clover Dahlia

15:47Oti: They would've worked. They missed a trick there

15:50KT: but I get what you're saying. There was a lot of rigidity in regards to him, like, yes, it worked and that was guaranteed stable money, but there needs to be some shaking up

16:01Oti: Yeah

16:01KT: Even when Tommy and Diamond would try to get him to, you know, come together so they can rule the whole Chicago. He was like, yeah, nah, I'm gonna stay with my corner. yeah. if you think, whatever the opposite of Prop Joe in The Wire that's Walter Flynn.

16:17Oti: Exactly. He

16:18KT: was not Prop Joe He did not want any part of the co-op.

16:23Oti: that, that no. Oh, un-Prop

16:26KT: Flynn. Wow. Cause you're right. I don't think cuz it's like, even if he's old school, you know, there are even moments like that of respectability, but I don't think I necessarily respected the way he navigated and, and, and I guess the, the cut of his cloth,

16:43Oti: you

16:43KT: know, I didn't like him so much that he made Vic seem like a good, like a good leader. you're right. You're right.

16:51Oti: I'm shit.

16:52KT: The fuck. I was like, oh man. Ness to lead this shit. it was nice. Seeing a baby Vic, Hightown, friends and lovers. If we can be vulnerable, we did try Hightown and if you think we should continue past a couple of episodes, let us know. But it was nice seeing him in that

17:09Oti: Mm-hmm

17:09KT: Um, yeah, you are right. I just, it's interesting because he is very much like I've got high blood pressure. Don't say anything to me. Otherwise I'll get upset even though women are the emotional ones. Um, yeah. I don't know. Like he, I don't think it was that he was written badly, but I think maybe it's that we've seen it before, you know?

17:31Oti: No, like he's so old school, he, he didn't want anything to do with Diamond.

17:35KT: This group. He didn't want to, he even, he didn't want to hear the daughter at all. You know, You are just there for their counting. You, you know, the books must, that daughter is trying to say there's more I can do. She was probably doing more on the sides as well. Well, she was, she was pretty useless. Like

17:50Oti: not as useless, Aslin wanted to bake it out to be,

17:52KT: Yeah. Yeah, no, no, no, no. I, I agree with that. Um, but in any case, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what it is. Like he wasn't necessarily terrible. Obviously the acting was exemplary, so that's not the reason why I didn't like him, but there was, I don't know, the, I was just like, wake up. Oh man. Smell the smell. The 2020s coffee,

18:14Oti: and I

18:14KT: don't loved him in Sons of Anarchy. He's he's amazing. You know, he's a great actor. His character in this is just, yeah. Horrible. um, but yeah, let let's continue on, uh, Vic, he came off very bratty. Obviously he became competition. And are we not even going to address the fact that, you know, , Walter's like, I just want you with a good Irish girl. Just say you don't want your son with a black woman. Just say that.

18:41KT: but anyway, anyway, um, but let, let's talk a bit about. He was frustrating to me near the end of the season where literally Tommy had nothing to gain out of granting Vic and Gloria, a safe passage, but he did. And what did Vic do?

18:59Oti: Yeah, he, he blamed Tommy, but for him it's understandable because he's lost the love of his

19:05KT: life. stop it.

19:06Oti: But, but Claudia, who's been running with Tommy all this

19:09KT: time. Yeah. No story has nothing to gain from that shit. She bought the father's venom from the get go. Yeah. And you know, your dad, you know, dad is, is the age shit. Yeah. But I told you she wasn't competent. So that's why she flips so easily

19:24Oti: only for it all Andra at the end.

19:26KT: And she's like, ohoh, everyone's fucking dead now. it's too late. No annoying as fuck. But I do not blame Vic for being emotional. I'm not seeing the reason for it, Yeah, no, no, no. It's understandable. And he's just loosening the grip of daddy's hands. If you're nasty. Um, daddy Flanagan, if you're nasty. Um, yeah, I'll be the son of his Anique role playing motherfucker. Do you.

19:53Oti: it? Oh, clearly not as intensely as you

19:57KT: but no, I get it because he was, he was just coming into consciousness of the way that his father kind of pinned him and Claudia against each other. I absolutely understand that, but it was a bit frustrating, but I would say overall, I do like Vic as a character.

20:11KT: He did. I, I did warm to him. I think once the whole Gloria. You know, um, you know, will, will he won't he, who is Gloria going to end up with? Like once that kind of got out of the way, it was cool. And there was obviously some respectable moments where Tommy could rely on him as well. Um, so it was, it was really nice to see that come together.

20:35KT: Is he a leader by no. Um, but he, he's definitely got some interesting sort of moments that I wanna be able to explore. Um, as we go into season two, Gloria is dead, dead,

20:46Oti: Yeah. She's dead. There's all coming back from

20:48KT: that. How do you think that pans out for him?

20:51Oti: He moves on. He takes over what the dad's left and the tra push pluck Dahlia.

20:56KT: Yeah, I, I think so. I, I, I wonder, you know, what will come out of the pieces. Um, but what do you think about Claudia's character? I couldn't stand her personally.

21:06Oti: I didn't mind her. At least she had ambition. She wanted to, you know, bang the game she wanted. She saw the product, you know, she knew Black Dahlia was growing up pop, which it did.

21:16Oti: Yeah. You know, the father just didn't see the value in it, but she got Tommy on board. She got a lot of people on board for that shit. So it's not like she's, she's naive, you know? Well, she's naive to some Yeah.

21:29Oti: But that's why

21:29KT: Tommy was there. And that's why she brought Tommy in. Yeah. But I think if you're gonna do some big boy Ts, you need to do it with your whole throat. You know what I mean? Like she kept trying to do these things and then like kind of recant on it or, you know, have 80% intensity and it's like, Nara, you know what you're doing? You're double crossing Tommy as well. Like come with that

21:52Oti: Well, she did kill some people

21:56KT: she was not shying away. That's for sure. True, true, absolutely true. Um, I don't know, the, the, the, the Walter waiting and the kidnapping of the cook was an interesting sort of angle. To me. It kind of felt a bit out of left field. Um, but then again, you said she's a killer, but don't push her, right. cause revenge is the sweetest. Joyer next to getting pussy, especially for Claude.

22:22Oti: Yep You

22:22KT: She was just using her sensuality, the power of the pompom. Yeah, the power of the Black Dahlia lips.

22:29Oti: You should see how she uses that in Ban

22:31KT: she, Oh my What are you? TV podcast. Wine car. do you, do you, are you Oti Sandman? Do you exist outside of TV shows? We're covering?

22:42Oti: I don't think I do.

22:43KT: do. because the dreaming can fuck.

22:47Oti: wow.

22:48KT: Hold out friends and lovers for our Sandman review. I have much to say,

22:53Oti: and I have much to counter

22:54KT: with. Oh, okay. I will counter you D&D style without any effects. Fucking nerds, man.

23:05Oti: man.

23:06KT: If you're a Virgin, watch The Sandman. If you fuck, watch Force

23:15Oti: Jesus Christ.

23:19KT: Well, speaking of non virgins, let's talk about Diamond. You know, I talked a lot about some Primo sex scenes, um, that we got throughout all of Power. Um, you know, even most recently in Raising Kanan and I was talking about Raq and Symphony, not Marvin.

23:35Oti: mm-hmm

23:35KT: No, thank you very much. Um, Diamond gave us some good sex scenes with a treacherous, a treacherous snake in the grass, Adrian

23:45Oti: he was in jail for a long time, you

23:46KT: know? know? Oh, so he needed some Black Dahlia.

23:49Oti: Mm

23:51KT: Some of those lips.

23:53Oti: Yep. both sets.

23:55KT: Hey, streets need some lips,

23:58Oti: eh, yeah.

23:59KT: yeah. All right. Uh, well, let's talk about Diamond. Um, you know, what was really interesting and, and feel free to clarify, because to me it was painted as if Diamond went in and Jenard only had it for like two, three years. But as the season continued, he Jenard was actually holding down the Fort for quite a long time.

24:20Oti: Yeah. D one hasn't done shit. he set up the, he set it up, but nah, Jenard, in as much as I, I don't like Jenard, he held, he held his own,

24:30KT: like he was justified in his UMBR

24:33Oti: years.

24:34KT: Yeah, Like I think that was longer than Cookie in Empire. Yeah. I think it was a Cookie went for like seven, eight years.

24:40Oti: and

24:40KT: Cookie was beat as fuck. no, because literally at that point, at that point, it's a whole new operation.

24:51Oti: Yeah. Like I don't understand his thinking of,

24:54KT: oh I've been away for 15 years, but I'm coming out and it's it's mine. No, it's not. I think, well, it's one thing to say it's yours and it might have been rightfully his, um, but also at the same time, he didn't respect Jenard at all. He treated him like he treated Jenard. Like he was only there for two minutes with a Happy Meal.

25:15Oti: Exactly. Like that's the dynamic would've had when he, before he went to prison.

25:20KT: Yeah. But not now, not over 15 years. You, you gotta give him some room to be the leader that he was throughout, regardless of whether you agree or not, but you take that shit, you know, behind closed doors, you don't air your GCEs when he has his two ICS there.

25:35KT: We know how you feel about with Will Smith. It's okay. You always wanna put it behind closed doors. We know we understand, but yeah, no, because even though there were like, you know, territory sort of wars going on and that sort of thing to still be operating after 15 years, it deserves commendation. It deserves acknowledgement.

25:58Oti: Mm.

25:58KT: And Diamond really? Cause it's like, you know, just, you know, friends and lovers, we all need an atta boy, you know? Yeah. And Diamond was treating him like he was a fucking dumb ass mm-hmm , which he may well be, but two things can be true. Right.

26:13KT: He made some really some really rash sorted decisions. But also if you've been holding down the fort for 15 years, and then you feel the, the control leaving slipping through your fingers, then it kind of makes sense that you will just act up and try to go on your own

26:28Oti: and not just, Ooh, I'll go and do another thing on this side.

26:32KT: Nah, you gotta find a way to own the thing that you've built for 15 years. Yeah. You know, and sadly it was Diamond in the way. I don't agree with what Jenard tried to do, but you know, it's understandable. Well, the game is the game.

26:46Oti: It is.

26:47KT: let's talk about Adrian. Um, you know, I thought, I thought they were having a very cute sort of tri and then we find out that Adrian was a bit more purposeful in her. Bangings in the sense that she was trying to get a bigger story out of Diamond. what are your thoughts on that? Can you trust women again?

27:05Oti: I don't even still trust her still, you know, like she came out with the truth too quickly. I'm like,

27:11KT: so it must be bigger else. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. If you're willing to admit that much,

27:15Oti: no Dick is that good? Like after one night she was like, oh, actually I'm a reporter.

27:23KT: No, she's going for the platinum package. That's what she's going for.

27:27Oti: Nah,

27:27KT: there's something else. There has to be on a different angle there. Cause I think, I think she wants to do a bigger story. Isn't that? What what's going on?

27:34Oti: Yeah. And she had bit that, but I think either it's still a trap that they wanna get Diamond or it has to be something else.

27:42KT: I can't believe that she laid her cards out so blatantly and so quickly. Yeah, cause then why I have such a ruse, if you were just going to reveal it, once you got dicked down once. Good and all mm-hmm , but I will say her presence as a journalist, it will bring a, a, an interesting sort of dynamic that I don't think we've seen in the Power universe. We haven't necessarily seen, uh, maybe even in the foreground, you know, sort of character to do with the media.

28:11Oti: Mm.

28:11KT: Obviously we've got different sides of the law, um, being portrayed across the Power universe. But I think this might be quite interesting. She does seem like she will be quite self righteous and we've kind of seen instances and cadences of that already. Um, But I don't know if, if she can get some cool, like investigative journalism going on.

28:32KT: I think that will be quite interesting, but I don't know the balls in your court Diamond. Like you are getting mad at Jenard for making dumb decisions, but you are getting guided by the Dahlia lips. Mm-hmm we didn't even get to talk about the Irish reinforcement. What? Okay. Because this reinforces your, your sort of notion about Walter Flynn being so old school, you really have no one else in the continent of America that you need to call your Irish buddies.

29:00Oti: Well, , they're still part of the same bigger group. So it makes sense that they come, you know, they reinforce, I didn't, I didn't find that strange, but they picked them up as,

29:11KT: Yeah Like they're all John Wicks or something.

29:13Oti: Yeah. they all

29:16KT: the pub around the corner.

29:18Oti: Tommy took them down with ease.

29:23KT: Like, what was the point? Why make such a big deal? But I was like, cuz you keep saying he is old school. Maybe he doesn't even like Irish Americans. Maybe he just likes Irish, Irish people. Cause why, why spend all that resource to bring them? And then they had all of their guns as well. For what

29:41Oti: To show us how Tommy is amazing.

29:45KT: Yeah. But we've been knowing.

29:46Oti: we do,

29:46KT: They didn't feel like ad like worthy adversaries, did they

29:50Oti: They felt very, like they've been playing in the sandpit this whole time.

29:55KT: cause really the way that it was written, the way that it was set out, Claude could have taken everyone down. Mm-hmm we didn't even need the Irish crew showing up. Mm-hmm . If I may borrow Archer, Vincent Vango, fuck yourself. um, is there anything you wanna say about the Serbs? I think it, um, it, it looped a nice sort of storyline that we've had recurring in the Power universe, but I think we've kind of laid that to rest now yet.

30:25Oti: Yeah. Like Tommy has given them everything that he can and they've, they've said, you know what? It is, what it is.

30:32KT: We, whoever give us money and that's it, you know, that story is old from Power. It's all done. You know, what I think is quite interesting. One of, one of the more sort of admirable qualities about Tommy and that we, what we love about him so much. And we talked about it when we were talking about Power is he's so fucking loyal. Like Tommy is, I, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't even say there's anyone that's more loyal than him in the Power.

30:59KT: As unhinged as he can be as off the handle, as he can be as much of, as a loose cannon that he can be, he's always fucking loyal. And what I really appreciate, you know, he might not have the credentials to be a psychologist, but he understands that, you know, personal gain is the most important thing over loyalty.

31:20KT: That's why he's able. Buy the, the loyalty or the services of the Serbs. He can buy the Flynns. He can buy Diamond. Well, I like Diamond, so I don't think that, you know, he's that much of a snake, even though his snake can convince a journalist to reveal herself. But that's what I really like. I, I was very impressed by in this season because one of the greatest things about Tommy is also what he uses against other people. All right. Well, let's talk about bust down Liliana.

31:50Oti: Yeah. Well, she , she was from Power as well,

31:55Oti: you know? Yeah. She's from Power as well. So, uh, it was cool seeing her here. The fact that they build such a quick connection with Tommy. Yeah. You know, at the end of it, she knew that Tommy was the one who was gonna come there when she was in trouble and vice versa. It was good to see. It really started me to see how she died at the end, because fuck, you know, man, Tommy has lost too many people,

32:18KT: But she kept catching bullets off the street. So it was, so it was only a matter of time to be perfectly honest. Did you ever think that her and Tommy were going to fuck even just once or you didn't think

32:31Oti: Yeah, I thought so. I think they

32:32KT: did, even if he was offset, are you just creating, are you just creating your own fan fiction? are you just creating your own fan fiction? I, I thought, you know, I thought something was potentially going to go on or maybe that's be just because I see Joseph Sikora and I just want him to fuck everyone when I see him. So, you know, maybe that was just me personally, but I really thought they had a connection, but maybe that also shows that you don't always have to fuck each other.

33:03Oti: you.

33:03KT: They met when they had no one else and nothing else to go through, you know? Yeah. And she was kind of coerced to working with Tommy,

33:10Oti: Well, there's that bit, but once you, you, you gloss over that

33:13KT: gloss over. Okay.

33:19Oti: it felt mutual afterwards.

33:22KT: you know, we, we talk about this a lot when we talk about, um, characters and I think, you know, we're coming to the end of the episode. So I think I can mention it now, even though it's gonna get distracting, but we talk about, you know, when satisfy all that they needed to do all of the.

33:41KT: Sort of fall out that will be for other characters to need to digest, you know, for upcoming sort of episodes and seasons. Once they've served their purpose, it makes sense to kill off the character. And, you know, that's what we were talking about with Zeke.

33:55Oti: Mm

33:58KT: He never had, he never had a chance.

34:00Oti: She did not

34:02KT: but I think Liliana is the same way. Like I think she served her purpose from the story, but what what's interesting was, even though we see the Zeke writing on the wall, I didn't necessarily see that for Liliana, but it also makes sense that that's the end of her story.

34:18Oti: Mm. It did make sense. Um, but it still was sad.

34:22KT: Cause I think just having Tommy have some stable relationships, um, past the season, would've been good for him. Yeah. He doesn't get that serenity at the end of it, you know, because his life has been chaotic and through and through, but Tom, you don't think about Tommy and serenity together, do you? No, he's gonna be a restless soul for the rest of his life, but we'll love and support him along the way.

34:45Oti: Oh, sure.

34:45KT: Do you have any hopes, dreams, or predictions for season two?

34:49Oti: no. Tommy brings chaos wherever he goes. So I cannot even try and further what will happen, but I'll be there for it. Um, it's one of those shows that however, the wind blows across Tommy, you'll just be there for it.

35:03KT: You know, you'll love it. You'll appreciate it. And yeah, know, I need him to find another redhead. It just seeing him get off on a redhead gets me off.

35:11Oti: Oh, wait. Kate is back.

35:13KT: Hey, we do not shame. maybe, maybe it's high time. We do shave, Oti. Well, House of Dragons. Yeah, it's actually pretty good. Fuck off. Call us haters.

35:28Oti: it as well. While seeing a black pastor, I was like, wait,

35:31KT: what? well, keep out friends and lovers. We'll absolutely be covering House of the Dragon, um, when the season is over, but Ooh, Ooh thank you so much friends and lovers for joining us another week in the For Your Reference household, usually we'll finish off in a segment. We call For Your Reference, but we've come to the end of Power August, Oti. How are you feeling?

35:57Oti: Oh, very nice. It's it's been a, a good month. I think appreciating Power and all it's brought to the entertainment value in our lives.

36:07KT: Yeah. You know, it can't be left and said absolutely. Uh, and make sure , cause we know you are super nasty. So if you haven't even watched all of the Power and you are here and you're listening to it, go and watch it. It's fucking great. And then DMs, I love a good fight. Um, well you can love us in the DMs as well, but usually fighting is our default, right, Oti? Hashtag justice for Gora. Am I right?

36:31Oti: Oh yeah.

36:34KT: um, so I guess our recommendations instead of our usual, um, For Your Reference segment is the Power show, Ghost, Raising Kanan as well as Tommy

36:44Oti: mm-hmm.

36:45KT: If you'd like to know about Oti's Dahlia lips on Twitter and Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod.

36:51Oti: Write us an email, hello@fyrpodcast.com.

36:53KT: we're also on Irish reinforcement podcast. If you like to leave a rating and review and we'll see you guys next week.

37:00Oti: See ya.

37:01KT: Bye.