Fatal Attraction – Day Drimmer

Full transcript of Fatal Attraction – Day Drimmer.

0:00KT: Welcome back. We take kindly to your kind around her, and we are starting off with Quid Pro Mo. Shout outs to the ever delectable Seth, Jamal, and Stoney of the Thanks for Coming podcast. Make sure you're subscribed. You will see an episode with yours truly talking all things Drag Race Down Under.

0:22Oti: Oi.

0:25KT: Oi. Oi is out on the prowl. Just for you guys.

0:29Clip: Take the promo away. Well, hello America and thanks for coming. My name's Seth. What's yours? Hey, it's Jamal. And Stoney. Have you ever had Drag Race withdraw? You know the symptoms, Not enough glitter, eyelashes not staying glued down, and that red itchy rash that just won't go away. You should see a doctor for that. And the only prescription for your blues is more Thanks for Coming, the most magically gay podcast. With at least 150 podcasts,

1:01Clip: seven seasons of Drag Race coverage under our belt, and topical queer discussions, there's a little bit for everyone here. That's right. We're even featured on Cosmopolitan's list of top seven RuPaul's Drag Race podcast that spill the hottest tea. Join us every week as we bring you a fun recap of the latest episode of whatever season we're covering. It'll make you feel like you're back on the couch discussing the latest episode of Drag Race with all your friends. Stop by thanksforcomingpodcast.com

1:34Clip: for links to listen on your platform of choice, links to all of our social media and recent happenings. Okay. What are you waiting for? Go check us out, honey. Thanks for Coming, a RuPaul's Drag Race podcast.

2:13KT: Are you discreet? Massage that sploosh related neck injury and pack light with adulterous baggage this week with the 1987 film Fatal Attraction. What a whole adventure, Oti.

2:13Oti: It really was, wasn't it?

2:13KT: Yeah. Before we get completely entangled and swept away, let's get into the general stats and information in regards to this film released in 1987. Director Adrian Lyne, writers James Dearden, well as the well, a whole cast of stars, Michael Douglas, Glenn Close, Anne Archer, and super amazing splooshy shout out to Jane Krakowski,

2:56KT: even though I'm sure this shout out is longer than her appearance in the film. In regards to the budget, lovely and satiating. We have $14,000,000 and a worldwide gross of $320,000,000. Oh. That's a lot to betray your spouse and all of your friends and lovers, Oti. I'm pretty sure on the intro, I said kiss kiss. And I think that kind of cancels itself out, doesn't it?

2:56Oti: It does.

2:56KT: I think it's only foreboding that I cancel myself, Oti, preemptively. If this is the first time you have perused the For Your Reference podcast,

3:38KT: welcome, welcome, welcome. We do love to tantalize on who will be the next friend and lover of the For Your Reference podcast, so welcome. But if this is your first time, we always delve in the land of spoilers. So spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, or in most third acts, ouchie, ouchie, ouchie. Oh. Let's get into first impressions, Oti. How did you feel watching this film? I believe you've watched this before and we've watched so many iterations of this formula up until our recent watch. So how did you feel generally?

4:17Oti: I enjoyed it. I think a lot of the times when I go back to things that I thought I liked before growing up, a lot of the time I've been disappointed, but this held true to its form. I was intrigued. A lot of the suspense wasn't there because all the big moments are out there. They're part of pop culture. And going back, I'm sort of surprised because I watched this quite young, and there was a lot of titties. And

4:46Oti: I'm like, that's one aspect of the movie I didn't remember.

4:46KT: It was more nips than tips. Yeah. There's some more merch or two. Get on And to

4:56Oti: but due to the form, like, Glenn Close just gives an exceptional performance in this. I think her character as Alex just shows all the psyche. Like, you can you can buy into her weirdness and her psyche quite easily.

5:12KT: Yeah. There's there's definitely a lot to talk about. And with most insular sort of stories, it really does just center on Alex and Dan. So we can definitely go into more detail. How do you feel watching films of this genre? Because this is probably one of the OGs. How do you feel it stacks up?

5:31Oti: I think it's it stays true to form. You know? Like I mentioned, I've gone back and watched a lot of the stuff that I watched back in the day. And a lot of the time I end up being disappointed.

5:42KT: That's a long way to say The Departed, my love.

5:46Oti: Granted, the things that in the movie I thought, didn't really care for quite much. We'll get to it later, of course. But overall, I sat there thinking at the end of it, I was entertained.

5:58KT: Is that a Gladiator reference?

5:58Oti: It is.

5:58KT: We'll get round to it with Russell Crowe and Tuggo all around the world. Me, me, me. Well, I would like to say thank you and shout out to all of our delectable sploosh worthy patrons, because if you've been following us in the linear timeline, we've been covering films that maybe not everyone has seen and we wanted to cover something popular. So shout out to our patrons for voting on this poll. There were some contenders that didn't get voted on, so we might consider it in the future. But

6:34KT: absolutely interactive in every way, this film. Shout outs to Michael Ealy because he dabbled himself in The Intruder with Meagan Good and Daddy Quaid as well as Fatale with Hilary Swank with her money in the Swanks.

6:54Oti: Oh, we just gotta ignore Omar Epps.

6:57KT: I think Omar Epps' eyes is his own genre to be perfectly honest. I I don't know. I don't think I would succinctly say that I gravitate to entanglement sort of genre films, but I also enjoy it as soon as I'm bought into it. In saying that, watching Fatal Attraction, I feel was more of a template as opposed to a film, at least from my experience and my viewing experience. And what I mean by that is many moons ago, right next to our Escape Room episode, we did cover Office Space.

7:38KT: And Office Space has kind of become the blueprint of situational, observational nine to five droning sort of life comedies. Right? So I definitely felt a very similar sort of feeling while I was watching Fatal Attraction being like, oh, I can see the periphery and the many sort of homages and byproducts of that. Thinking of it now, I feel like Fatale does have like an elevator scene as well. I don't know if that is referencing. I do know that is close to. Okay, Willy Wonka. Calm down. I can't afford the sequel.

8:16KT: But yeah, in regards to it, it was it was enjoyable. Like, I'm glad that I watched it. I'm glad that I've added it to my landscape of cinema viewing. But I wouldn't necessarily say it was my favorite in the genre. And I definitely wanna go into the characters, but just while we're here, trigger warning in regards to self harm and also in regards to mental illness. The reason why I wanna mention it now is because it kind of will inform how this review episode is going to go. Because in regards to Alex's character,

8:50KT: there are a lot of questionable things she does. Right? But, however, if she is not well, she also can't help it. So I guess from that point of view, you don't have to go into too much detail. I would just like to know, do you prescribe to the point of view that she wasn't well and she couldn't help what she was doing, albeit the fact that she definitely hurt people in her proximity shrapnel, but do you on the other hand kind of say this is the world and she just ran it.

9:26KT: I guess I can also give you an Oti olive reference branch. Glenn Close, when she was researching for this role, she gave the script to two psychiatrists and they didn't pick up on any sort of mental illness in regards to Alex's character. I guess the cliff notes was more that her response was reasonable if the theory was that she was potentially abused as a child, maybe even by her father, it but didn't necessarily denote to her having mental illness. So I guess I just wanna know briefly in a sixty minute sound bite,

10:04KT: do you believe that Alex was unwell and she couldn't help herself or she was just ready to burn all that shit to the ground? Angela Bassett, burn it all and walk away.

10:15Oti: Weird to say that because I think there's an element of column a, column b stuff going on. Alright. I think the fact that when she found out or when she realized that Dan was going to go back home and she slit her wrists, there's some elements of, mate, there's some issues with her. There's some psychological issues here at play that in a in as much as ours,

10:40Oti: I don't really care for both characters. I don't think they painted a picture where at the end of it, I'm like, oh, Dan needs to get away from this, or oh, I feel sorry for Alex. Because at the end of the day, to me, they are consenting adults. Alex fully knowing that she is having an affair with a married man because Dan talked about the wife and the kid from the get go. He wasn't hiding anything. Alex did acknowledge it that he was forthright about it, but that wasn't enough for her. She wanted to be the main squeeze.

11:08Oti: I think she just got filled. And I feel like she's when she realized that he's going to go back and slit her wrists, I just felt that that's where Danny should have just seen the bigger picture here. But instead, he thought he took it as, oh, this is my moment to care for this lady. And I felt that that just played into Alex's fantasies of whatever he she thought this relationship had blossomed to be.

11:08KT: Oh, yeah. Like, I I definitely wanna talk about them individually and their dynamic,

11:36KT: but Dan definitely could have tapped out, if you pardon the pun, much earlier. Like, he def it got to a point where he was too far in, but there was definitely moments very early in the film where he could have tapped out without any sort of consequence. Right? So before we get into the characters succinctly, I do wanna bring something up because most deliciously, I like to make notes wherever I can. So I took some notes while we were watching this film and I was calling it early.

12:06KT: The author that was referred to in regards to having an affair with the congressman was slash is Alex. And I guess this is why I don't necessarily regard this film more than I should is because there were themes that were introduced in this that never really got explored, storylines as opposed to themes. Right? There was a lot of context because we knew we were diving into a tryst, a romp, and a fa with Alex and Dan. However, there were some periphery information

12:42KT: that we were privy to. Right? And it it was discussed that there was an author that was going around, rolling around, and doing all the things Yep. In all the places. Right? Mhmm. So I was like, oh, let me make a note of this, and then we can pick it up later. But I don't think they really addressed that.

13:01Oti: I think that was more setting the the tone and the environment for us in terms of Alex's Alex's psyche at at the very least. Mhmm. And then when shit does happen and they do spend a weekend together, I think that plays into the fact that maybe it's out of character for her to be that into someone that much because she plays it fast and loose with everybody else. Yeah.

13:27Oti: So I guess it's, to some degree, for me, at least, I thought it had to do a big, big part of who Dan was in the connection that they formed over those two days.

13:38KT: I guess so. But I guess the sort of what I like to see when I watch a film is even if the character isn't on the screen or written on the page, that the world is still going on for them. They don't just sit there and wait for the next scene to come up. Right? So I think it would have just it would have contextualized the world that we were in. In regards to the world that we're in, there's something else that I wanna discuss in regards to the overall

14:09KT: pacing and storyline of this film. I don't care for Dan, but we'll come to that. I don't care for Dan, but I feel like he took too long and he never really understood the gravity over what was happening in the film. Usually for me, especially when it's in regards to social class, for example, once I am bought into the premise, I am all the way in. So whenever there's hesitancy with characters, that bothers me because there's some real dimension we can get to.

14:44KT: However, the character is still umming and ahhing for whatever reason. And I really feel like Dan was still living in the real world while this film presented a pseudo sort of fantasy as you collude to Alex's fantasy. Right? So I didn't say I don't mean that he had to buy into her fantasy, but she was going to fuck up your life, mate. And he was just acting like it was a Tuesday afternoon.

15:10Oti: I don't think anyone would have foreseen to the extent of where Alex went with it. And I think him understanding we had a conversation in bed when they had a conversation in bed when they were talking about how they're not gonna see each other because he's going to leave and he's gonna go back to his wife. And she's like, tell me to fuck off then. And when he said fuck off, she just didn't take it. She didn't take it. And I think from that point, Alex

15:33Oti: Dan really didn't see how things would unfold. And I I don't blame I don't blame him or the writing that he should have bought in or she understood the gravity of the situation quicker because not everyone would think bitch has crazy eyes and she's gonna do all that.

15:33KT: But I'm not saying you turn into a true crime Netflix documentary and push them into the river. I'm not saying that.

15:54KT: Like, you don't just pump and dump. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, like, there were many even the point, like you mentioned, when she self harmed herself. Surely at that point, you're like, okay. Maybe not to the point of changing your name and moving towns, but he definitely needed to distance himself. And I don't think he took the situation as seriously as he should have, and I don't think he bought into the world as quickly as he should have. Case in point, he finally comes clean after

16:28KT: all of this fucking nonsense, and he still doesn't fully own it. Because he called it a one night stand, but it was not.

16:35Oti: Yeah. Granted, we've seen movies where, like, we we we mentioned Fatal Affair earlier where Omar Epps don't even get to bloody go the whole way with Nia Long. But he definitely got some some some nice some nice time with her. Yeah. We could definitely say that Nia's thighs is equivalent of spending a whole a whole day with Me? Michael Douglas. Oh. But

17:00Oti: but to some extent, we've seen, like, it's not it's not a matter of logical way you want to apply this logic, especially when this stuff happen all the time. And for me, Alex just had her own fantasy in the world. She didn't really care for the reality she lived in. She didn't care that Dan was married. She knew all the details. She was a consenting adult into this. She played. She flirted. She and she actually drove this towards an affair when they were at the cafe.

17:28KT: Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Someday in the future, technology will be, you know, astute enough to detect my eye rolling. But I just wanna make it very clear that I am eye rolling so hard right now on this podcast.

17:47Oti: Oh, there's a little bit of rain. Let's go into a sexy place and drink wine together. Fuck off. What's wrong with two adults having coffee or or or or anything in a bar when it's raining? Nothing wrong with that. But it took a turn it took a turn, and far be it from us not understanding Dan's motive to even not go with the wife and the kid to view this place that they wanted to move.

18:12KT: From the get go, I just assumed Dan wasn't really interested in going to moving to the subs. But it just played on too quickly for me. And also, also sir, he became the most dedicated, committed family man after he rolled into some pussy. Is that how it works?

18:30Oti: For someone who talks about his family all the time, it's fucking weird he just cheated by the flip of a coin.

18:40KT: Well, yeah. But what I'm also saying is he didn't seem to give a fuck about his family. He was kind of just going through the motions, working, providing, servicing his wife, and, you know, some cases paying attention to his kid wherever he feels like it. But once he had the affair, that's when he started to care. The more that Alex tried to, you know, latch her hooks into him, that's when he realized he had something to lose.

18:40Oti: Maybe so. Maybe sometimes you just have to deep out to appreciate it even more.

19:14KT: Friends and lovers, welcome to the last episode. I know I said entanglements, but I am not Jada Pinkett Smith. I'll tell you that much for free.

19:24Oti: I'll welcome you to our Red Table Talk quite soon. I'm also not lifetime Wendy Williams.

19:29KT: Wow. You you are Tyrese Gibson from Baby Boy, but that's a story for another day. Mhmm. Maybe that's a type of entanglement film. Yeah. Because Taraji needed a way out, but she kept coming back to that good beat them up dick dance. I wrote, Dan will fuck you sideways till Tuesday, but he ain't a killer. Morals, bruv. Yeah.

20:00Oti: She should've he should've he should've killed her when she kidnapped the kid.

20:05KT: Yeah. Like, what more needs to happen for you to realize in this fictitious story that you need to fucking kill her?

20:12Oti: Yeah. And that's why it's weird because when you look at the verisimilitude that they used throughout the movie, things that made us try and believe this world. You know, we we talked about how they even used the score in this. Mhmm. You know, very, very, very muted where we could hear everything

20:33Oti: like it was supposed to be edge of the seat stuff.

20:33KT: According to my learned IMDb research, it doesn't kick in until about an hour.

20:33Oti: Yeah. Like, we are fully engrossed in the conversations, and every creak, every footstep is intentionally elevated. You know, you're supposed to feel that. You're supposed to feel as if you're in that world. And then on the other hand, there are aspects where you're like, you've painted this world, but I'm not fully understanding

21:00Oti: the logic or the concepts of it. Yeah. Or what what's the right way or the wrong way because far be from it, Dan is fucking flawed. Same with Alex. And they don't really own whatever it is that

21:00KT: They're both shitbags is the point. Yeah.

21:17KT: And and and let's come to it, friends and lovers, and in some cases, other love of fuckers. Unfortunately, infidelity in relationships as we're hearing from Oti is very common. We did cover the Tiger documentary on our Patreon if anyone's interested, but we did speak a lot about that particular topic in there. But what I'm saying about that is that's not necessarily when you're in the fantasy of film, cheating isn't necessarily a deal breaker in regards to morals,

21:54KT: especially if they're attractive. I don't necessarily find Michael Douglas attractive, but like Morris Chestnut in The Best Man, yes, please. Spank my ass and spank the other lady's ass all at the same time. And Taye Diggs can kiss your forehead.

22:11Oti: Oh, mate. Taye Diggs, nineties Taye Diggs.

22:15KT: Did he do it for you?

22:16Oti: Oh, man. How about Omar Epps? Nineties Omar Epps. Oh, he was a thig as well, wasn't he?

22:22KT: Yeah. He's still in the bushes, mate. But the point is cheating is very normal. And, you know, even in some cases where we cover, like, Snowfall, 4 Blocks, and The Wire, you know, even the criminalization about drugs can be suspended as well when you're watching entertainment and also when you're considering class. But in any case, when you talk about cheating, it doesn't necessarily mean that that person's a bad person. Right? So in regards to Dan's character, there was an opportunity for us as an audience to care about him. But even once he

23:00KT: did it with Alex, he didn't seem to have any sort of moral inner quandary or conflict about what he just did, which I would denote to say he didn't fucking care, and it wasn't the first time or maybe even both.

23:18Oti: True. He carried himself as if it wasn't the first time. He seemed that, you know what? If I need to step up, doesn't really fucking matter. But I think to me, the most weird thing was sort of how the wife dealt with it. She was pissed.

23:36KT: Yes.

23:37Oti: Granted, as anyone should, she was fucking pissed. Dan had already moved out. He was living somewhere else. But once every other thing hack happened, once Alex kidnapped the kid, came in to try and kill Beth, at the end of it, she fucking took him back. And to me, I'm like, you've introduced a fucking toxic character into our family that endangered us, ended our kid.

24:06Oti: It does not matter that you fucking killed her to save all our lives. You are the one fucking element that brought them here. And I just expected her I I anticipated her rage to stay on a bit more and not just to falter the last end when everything's tied up in a neat bow and Alex is gone.

24:26KT: Hi, friends and lovers. It's KT from the For Your Reference podcast. The masculine energy, but the woman on this podcast, I just wanna make it very clear that Oti is criminalizing the wife.

24:43Oti: I am not.

24:44KT: The female cuckold in this scenario because you're not giving the same energy for Dan, mate.

24:44Oti: No. I've said Dan is crap.

24:53Oti: All I'm saying is I didn't believe that she would forget she would forgive him that quickly, especially having introduced such a toxic character into their household that endangered their family.

25:03KT: But why is the onus on her?

25:07Oti: The onus is on her

25:09KT: stepped out, stayed out, paid child support, and moved on with his merry life. That's what he should have done.

25:09Oti: True.

25:14Oti: Yeah. I agree with that. But she should have been like, mate, fuck you and piss off.

25:21KT: If you wanna see instances of Oti being progressive and of the world, listen to our Secret Society episode because apparently we're getting the very traditional, very conventional man is man Oti in this episode, friends and lovers. Wow. I'm just not feeling the same energy about the cheating man. That's all.

25:21Oti: I am. I I laid down. I laid down. That's the problem.

25:21KT: Men keep laying down when they should be laying away.

25:50Oti: Well, to be fair, he didn't lay down with with Alex at the fast start. They were having it on top of the sink standing up.

25:57KT: Okay. Alright. I've got a note for this. Thank you. Thank you for prompting me, Oti. I love a good sex scene like everyone else, but the thirsty water drinking feels like it was written by a sexually thirsty virgin.

26:10Oti: Wow.

26:12KT: Do you know how sex works or not?

26:15Oti: Me, she was she was feeding him. She was feeding him water.

26:20KT: She was feeding him water off her or dripping it off her titties, mate. That's why your WAP is important, ladies. If you've got a dry ass pussy, you're trying to give him tap water. It's not the same shit, bro. Wow. If her pussy was wet enough, it wouldn't be a problem. That's all I'm saying. Put that on my fucking tombstone. Immortalize me in WAP.

26:45Oti: I don't know how to retort to that.

26:50KT: I also made a note as well. Debt collectors follow you when you don't pay. Alex is a pussy collector. Pay for your services in full, Dan. Mhmm.

27:04Oti: The aspects of the movie where we get to see Alex and and see her unfold and unravel, the extent she goes through to keep a man like, that's why it's so weird that any psychologist that she actually gave the script to psychologist who said that now we don't see any sort of mental issues here.

27:26KT: It was a different time, I guess. We're talking about eighties, not nineties yet.

27:26Oti: Maybe so. Maybe have nineties Taye Diggs to save the day, mate. Because

27:41Oti: to me, she is quite she is I knew, like, I remember the first time watching this movie, and she just appeared like, you know, when they talk about crazy eyes and whatever, she just appeared unhinged.

27:56KT: She was ready to fuck shit up. Yes. Yeah. She was. Absolutely. And She fucked the dick up and she fucked your life up. Yeah. And granted, you can catch feels. Like,

28:07Oti: Dan stayed with us longer than we should have. Mhmm. Like, usually, when you if if you're stepping up, you do it one night stand and you're out. But this was not a fucking one night stand. This was an entire weekend. Yeah. This is a bloody getaway.

28:23KT: Because even if you're talking not per session, if you're talking per twenty four hour period, it was definitely more than one day.

28:31Oti: Therefore, it was longer. Yeah. Like, did couple shit. They went to dances. They did they did dinners and restaurants. Like, it wasn't just hit and hit and run. Yeah. So it's very understandable that Alex would have a feeling about wanting to give it up so quickly, when she probably enjoyed it so much.

28:53KT: If it's a one night stand, of course, you're gonna give it up quickly, and there's nothing wrong with that either. Exactly.

28:58Oti: So it's it's very, very believable with this. And when you said that this was sort of a tapestry for other movies to sort of draw their draw their sorry?

28:58KT: The splooshes.

28:58Oti: Splooshes from? We've just said, like, things like Fatal Affair, Intruder, or what's the Hilary Swank Yeah. They were literally one night stands. Some of them were just touching someone's thighs. Nia Long thighs, which counts for more than

28:58KT: Not just anyone.

28:58Oti: Yeah. Nia Long. And that was enough to send people a mark for Alex to spend two two and a half days

29:40Oti: with this bloke.

29:40KT: So you're saying she has She's okay. Fucking she's entitled,

29:46Oti: bitch.

29:50KT: We should have like a fuck court, and you can be like Judge Oti, and you can qualify when it's justified.

29:54Oti: Yeah. Mate, like, at that point, Dan should have started fucking drawing up papers for having a big love sort of relationship.

30:04KT: This will be enough to get another Boondocks season, I think. Yeah. Just get out of the way. Oh, man. But I I do I do wonder because obviously film does seep into normal life. I do wonder, you know, when people are about to step out on their relationship, do they know at a particular moment, fuck, I'm actually going to do this? Right? Because Dan's moment, you could say arguably was earlier, but the specific moment where he's like, I'm going to get up all in her pussy ballot

30:41KT: was when they were at the bar when it was raining and they were drinking wine and they were talking all sexy. At that moment, that's where he fucked up as the kids say. I just wonder, I do wonder when people like tumble into other genitals, do they know that it's about to happen?

30:58Oti: Yeah. He was fully aware. He knew where this was heading. He would fully bought in. He didn't need any convincing.

31:06KT: Oh, Alex had him hook, line, and sinker.

31:09Oti: Yeah. When you're looking at the sort of the actions Dan took because he he tried to do it quite well. Like, he went to the cops. Not every man, not every bloke would go to the cops.

31:09KT: Because of? Because of what? Toxic masculinity,

31:26KT: you motherfucker. Oh, wow.

31:29Oti: Not every bloke would go there, you know, saying, hey, this girl is threatening my life, my family. Mhmm. Do something about it. But he did everything right afterwards. You just wonder where this guy was before.

31:43KT: Well, you know that he's going to be in this after. There are 20 sequels of the same fucking story probably.

31:50Oti: Probably.

31:51KT: I I am new to Michael Douglas. Go and check out The Game. We covered it on our podcast not long ago. We also tried Basic Instinct, which is immortalized in our Patreon for many reasons. But was Michael Douglas the go to guy for horny movies or what?

31:51Oti: Yeah. Late eighties, early nineties, And it just stayed up.

31:51KT: Just like Chris Rock in I Think I Love My Wife did it stay up for that long?

31:51Oti: Yep. It's a reference.

31:51KT: Bingo, my love. Mhmm. Speaking of The Game that we covered, aside from 13 Reasons Why,

32:34KT: when Alex started when Alex gave the tape to Dan and he started playing it, it did make me believe that there is a prequel to The Game and this is all a world of fantasy. Wow. Wouldn't that be something? Yeah. Because his brother seemed like a dickhead. So we're crossing Michael Douglas universes.

32:55Oti: Oh.

32:57KT: I I will say in regards to the film, there was a moment that I did get revved up to another Octane, and it was once we saw Alex turn up at the house. Because like you were saying, Alex was really trying to nudge him. Right? But then she got sick of nudging and she fucking pushed him into it. When she turned up at the house, that's where I felt like, okay, all of real life consequences

33:27KT: and real life rules don't apply here. We are sucked into this film and it's all going to end in the third act. But there was still that resistance from Dan that was a bit annoying to me.

33:38Oti: Yeah. It's it's because she brilliantly tracks them down.

33:45KT: Oh, yeah. Like,

33:47Oti: it's it's one of those things where you're like, oh, fuck. Because Dan changed his number. He changed his number, and she he thought he was gotten free, man. He thought that that shit was done. Yeah. No, bro. Man, imagine imagine imagine Fatal Attraction now with Alex having fucking the power of Google behind her. Wow. Jesus.

34:13KT: But it's like you didn't have social media. You did your shit face to face. Yeah. Yeah. But that's what I I I wanted that tussling. I wanted that sort of standoff. I was loving that. That sort of building to tension, that's absolutely what I wanted. And Dan just kept shrugging me like, fuck that bitch. And it's like, nah, you need to deal with this. Yeah.

34:38Oti: He needed he needed to deal with her. I think he to me, the point of coming clean was when she appeared in the house. And after Alex left, I would have been like, hey, Beth. You know what? I slept with this woman and she's trying to blackmail us to, you know, do whatever. Yeah. Other aspects of it, like, she didn't even believe when when Dan did confess and told Beth three quarters of the truth.

35:03Oti: Alex was like, nah, you wouldn't have. You couldn't have. No way. Why would you? My only leverage is gone. How dare you?

35:12KT: Well, he didn't fully disclose, but yes, the the wife was away. And actually, let's pull this up as well because Dan had the gall to make Beth go on the phone. And it's like, you fucking ruined your own marriage. You embarrassed and humiliated your wife. And now you're making her talk to your lover?

35:31Oti: It's a classic Good Wife. Or even if even if you're pulling examples from reality, it's the Weiner sort of date or what was his name called? The American politician sending weird pics, nude pics to people. Yeah. We know. Yeah. And having people having the wife stand there and be like, oh, I'm very faithful and I've learned from my mistakes. She did it for a second time. Yeah. Me? Like, nah. I would be like, there's a line. I'm not talking to your fucking

36:01Oti: mistress or whatever the hell. Yeah. You know, that's the mess you set up. You fucking fix it. Yeah. I do not care one bit.

36:09KT: Oh, absolute. I absolutely agree. And Dan was a fucking scumbag, man. Like, there was nothing that would have made me want to care. Like, obviously, his wife had nothing to do with it and their kid had nothing to do with it. But I don't care that you're going to lose your family, sir. And that's what I said at the start of this, It was very hard to care about either of the characters here.

36:09Oti: Yeah. Absolutely. Agree. Dan and Alex are just not written

36:36Oti: to a degree of, oh, I feel for. You can understand. You can you can empathize to some extent, but nah, I don't care for either of them. So at the end of it, when Alex is getting drowned there, oh man, they lingered on that shit.

36:53KT: Okay. Let's talk about that scene. Yeah. And I love how messy this is. This feels like an affair. It's it's Oti and KT, the eleven year long affair. Mhmm. Hopefully, can get Dominic West on it and Ruth Wilson. Oh, wow. In on it or in on us? Yeah. Let's talk about that scene. So if and I am operating on the fact that she's not well and even though she's hurting people, she can't help it. I'm operating from that frame of reference. Yeah? Mhmm. When he strangles her and she drowns and she looks lifeless

37:34KT: in that tub, I felt uncomfortable.

37:34Oti: Oh, did you?

37:34KT: I felt uncomfortable as a viewer and let me pull both of my monocles up, Oti. Apparently, according to the director, he regretted that scene as well.

37:49Oti: Why did he regret it?

37:50KT: It was too morose.

37:52Oti: Wow. I felt like it was more cathartic to Dan after everything he'd

37:57KT: sort Dan of only?

37:59Oti: Yeah.

38:01KT: I was not The definition of I

38:06Oti: was not sitting there thinking, I was not relieving myself.

38:14KT: Ew. Are you the Garrison of this podcast? Yeah. Yeah.

38:19Oti: I'd take that.

38:22KT: South Park, friends and lovers.

38:25Oti: I felt like because this is the second time he was strangling her. Yeah. And the first time he stopped himself because he was like he snapped himself back into reality. This is not who I am. I'm a bloody lawyer. I'm a dignified man. I don't know. Anyway, he was like fully just, you know, lines are crossed. She was about to kill Beth and whatever. He was protecting his family and it's understandable. So it's weird. The way it was shot, it felt more

38:55Oti: of a, like, Dan enjoyed it a bit too much. And I was like Like he went beyond Yeah. Felt it felt like Dan was moonlighting as some

39:10KT: That's a callback to Netflix true crime documentaries. Oh,

39:14Oti: but yeah. So it's not surprising to see that maybe he'd regretted how he shot it. Though aspects of it was like, yeah, you know, you do what you'd have to do to protect your family. It's understandable.

39:27KT: Yeah. It it was definitely a lot. And I'm glad that you can you can pick up on the the themes of misogyny and hateful women that Dan has. And I'm assuming that's what you've been channeling this whole time, not necessarily your personal values.

39:27Oti: Oh man, I'm a podcast host, mate.

39:27KT: I'm pretty sure you just orgasmed like five minutes ago, but it's okay.

39:57Oti: We all say don't kink shame, mate. We don't.

40:01KT: You want some love? Come and sit on my lap, Oti. Yep. There's your Wire reference. I don't like the idea that there was no consequences for Dan at all in this.

40:16Oti: Agreed. And that's why I was like, Beth, mate, this guy has put your family in the wringer. He's endangered your kid. Do something. Break up with tell him to fucking get off.

40:27KT: He did get off. That was the problem. Like, KT Jordan Peele coming this summer. Get off. Like, the repercussions of him cheating and and introducing

40:37Oti: someone very, very fucking unstable into their house Yeah. Was, a, I killed her for you. Well, he didn't even do that. Just buy a fucking flesh like to step up and shoot her. Yeah. Because apparently, he can drown anyone for shit.

40:37KT: Let's talk about the ending. Apparently, the ending was changed.

40:57KT: Originally, it was supposed to be Alex committing suicide, may making it look like Dan killed her and he would go to jail.

40:57Oti: Oh, that would have been way better.

40:57KT: But apparently, viewers didn't warm to that idea. And apparently, that ending was more true to the reference of Madame Butterfly. It it followed the themes more succinctly, but they they decided to pull their punch and change the ending. Because I don't like the fact that there was no consequences for Dan.

40:57Oti: Man, what what kind of target group did the viewers would they use?

41:33KT: Target group from the nineteen eighties? Fuck's sakes.

41:37Oti: I guess so. I don't know. Repercussions must be had.

41:40KT: Repercussions absolutely must be had. Wayward dick

41:44Oti: equals to fucking some bloody fat at the end of it. Carry on my wayward.

41:51KT: Dick.

41:55Oti: Yeah. Now just picturing Sam and Dean.

41:57KT: Wow. Supernatural. Now that's a long erection of a show. I'll tell you that much. Yeah. Yeah. But This this film, I I definitely would have felt more compelling if they did end the film that way. Because you pretty much took us there, especially with the bunny boiling of it all. Like you took us all the way there in regards to how theatric and and and the stakes that was so high in the film. So why don't we just go all the way there?

42:29Oti: Yeah. To to hear that those this version of an ending paying close attention to how Madame Butterfly was, then I'm just shocked that it went this way. Because then to me, looking back, you know, capped in hindsight, then this movie could have been elevated even farther. Oh absolutely. You know, you don't need everything fucking tied in a bow at the end of it, you don't need fucking happy endings,

42:56Oti: Dan was crap throughout the whole movie, Alex was crap throughout the whole movie, Let crap people do crap things to each other.

42:56KT: But you laughed a little bit too hard

43:05KT: after they fucked. They had their first fucking sessions. And Alex was like, why are you making all of these excuses? You can just say fuck off. And then what did Dan say? Fuck off, me.

43:19KT: You laughed a little bit too hard at that point.

43:19Oti: No. Because I said I said to and I couldn't even remember the first time watching it because I said, me, just tell her to fucking fuck off. Yeah. Before she even said that. Like, at what point at what point are you gonna string this along? You know what it was. She knew what it was going in. Whatever field she have she she caught, doesn't bloody matter. As a matter of fact, you're fucking married.

43:45Oti: You're married, man. You have your family. You have your kids. And she was aware of all the situation. So I didn't and and I didn't expect all this trying to lay down lay her down gently or even her fucking or even him having to leave a note. You don't need to leave a note. Yeah. Walk out. Don't even give you a fuck. Don't even give your full don't even give you your real name.

43:45KT: Oh, well, she knew from a professional setting, that's different.

43:45Oti: But just just leave. Just

44:12KT: Oh, I absolutely agree. I I was making notes throughout the film of all of the red flags, but this was a whole fucking red sea of flags. You just chose not to look at it. Yeah. Yeah. I guess good pussy can still be dry pussy, friends and lovers.

44:29Oti: Well, that's why they needed water.

44:35KT: Oh man, man, man, man, man, man. Is there anything else you would like to include, my love? They could have done a good product placement for Lube there. For 20% off, friends and lovers, email us at hello@fyrpodcast.com.

44:50Oti: Reference Lube.

44:52KT: Are you discreet?

44:55Oti: Are you just slippery?

44:57KT: My. Slippery sploosh. That's the name of the lube. There you go. Don't fucking trademark that, friends and lovers. If you care for us, please don't trademark it. Is there anything else you would like to add, my love?

44:57Oti: I think all the big moments

45:13Oti: in this movie, I was fully in on. Like, I don't feel a way that this movie degraded over time. There are issues that you can fully accept and you can fully have this critical mind of, but at the end of the day, you leave there having been fully well entertained, fully well realizing that both characters can be crap. Yeah. That repercussions don't mean shit. Yeah. And in this world, we hate rabbits.

45:48KT: Well, not insightful, but thank you.

45:48Oti: You're welcome.

45:48KT: I will finish off with a note that I made. Was a business in the eighties if there wasn't a white guy spouting Asian philosophies?

45:48Oti: Yeah. It reminded me of the opening scenes in Die Hard. They had a lot of that, man.

45:48KT: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It was I don't know. We talked about not kink shaming and I feel like that was a kink back then.

46:18Oti: Probably.

46:20KT: Let's finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference, Oti.

46:25Oti: I'm gonna reference the one and only Fatal Affair. Well, man, Omar Epps and Nia Long, who would have thought?

46:33KT: Omar thought and he thought wrong. He thunked it wrong. You know? Don't let Omar Epps touch it. We know the powers of the thigh. This is just you trying to justify always being fixated on my ass. Good ass. Slap ass. Heat. Pacino. We love that. Mhmm. I will reference a very masterfully crafted and executed cautionary tale about not fucking people that you're not married to, The Housemaid.

47:02Oti: Oh, for a second, I thought you gotta go with the bible. And I was like, woah, mate. The bibles people are cheating on the bible left, right, and center.

47:12KT: If you'd like to you'd like to fuck us on biblical levels, on Twitter and Instagram, we're at foryourrefpod. Write us an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. If you'd like to see how our bunny boils, we're on bunny boiler podcast if you'd to like leave a rating and review, and we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.