Die Hard – Walky Talky Man Feelings
Hosted by
KT & Oti
Show Notes
Deck the halls with cake threats, one-liners and walky-talky man feelings. Set off the explosives powered by international friendship and glass shards of marriage with Die Hard this week.
Episode Details
- Duration
- 0:00
- Released
- December 6, 2022
- Category
- Episode
- Hosts
Transcript
Transcript (5,612 words)
Full transcript of Die Hard – Walky Talky Man Feelings.
KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and it's another rocking around the festive Christmas tree. Mm-hmm. I would prefer to be in Queen Latifah's Christmas themed film, but here we are, friends and lovers, These films, you don't have to debate. And we do have an episode that you can go and check out. It's a Wonderful Life. Oti's childhood, which explains a lot.
Oti: How does it explain a lot?
KT: Happiest Season. Single All the Way. And also Black Christmas. We covered as
Oti: Mm-hmm.
KT: Yip. It's good with the shirt. Very happy friends and White Night lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference Podcast. You got your host KT
Oti: and Oti
KT: Deck the halls with cake threats, one-liners and walky-talky man feelings. Set off the explosives powered by international friendship and glass shards of marriage with Die Hard this week.
Oti: Woohoo.
KT: Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. Mistletoe. Mistletoe. Mistletoe. And don't worry. Friends and lovers, our first theme. Whether this is a Christmas film, let's get into general stats. information. Director, we have John McTiernan. This is based on the novel by Roderick Thorp. In regards to writers for the screenplay, we have Jeb Stuart, as well as Steven E. de Souza. It was released in July of 1988, and this film was just dripping eighties. Was it not a budget of 28 million and a world wide gross of 141.6 million, Oti.
Oti: Wow. Wow, wow,
KT: Wow. The fact that we're actually covering this during my favorite time of year just shows how fucking tired I am. You wore me down, Oti. Let's get into first impressions. Um, how, how do you feel? Is this something that you've watched, like the back of your hand? How are you feeling now?
Oti: I feel good. I've watched this a lot and it always just, you know, it, it's one of those things to me, it just gets better with every rewatch and I enjoy it even more. The ridiculousness, the cheesy one liners the man feelings. What's not to love.
KT: Well, I did tell you near the end of watching this film, before the recording, that this was made for men that need to go to therapy. like, when are we gonna stop avoiding the clip of therapy? Friends and lovers. That's what I need to know.
Oti: I also, I'm gonna get an experience. Oh, I love you, bro. We all love you, right?
KT: and everyone else loves you, man. it's like you can talk about your feelings as long as you put it around testosterone.
Oti: Yeah, and I'm there for it, but I really enjoyed it. Even watching it now, I think I can, I can, I've lost count of how many times I watched this movie. It's one of those things that's been a staple yearly, you know? And even when we've been together, the first time that I've got you to watch this, I was so excited by it to bring it into the fold.
KT: No, thank you, I, I'll go to therapy and process my feelings like I should.
Oti: This moment of bringing is screwing things up then. Yes.
KT: From one cult survivor to another. Right, Oti? How are your priests doing?
Oti: Oh wow. Uh, but what can I say, man? Like it's. One of the most festive times of the year, and Die Hard is always just there. It's the equivalent of bloody Mariah.
KT: I wouldn't,
Oti: it's,
KT: I would not,
Oti: When you think of Mariahs all over for Christmas and you're thinking of what's the equivalent for the movie, it goes to Die Hard immediately.
KT: So is the tagline. All I want for Christmas is man feelings. That was some fucking simp shit at the end where they finally, after, you know, fucking around and talking on the phone online, and then they met i l, mm-hmm, bro.
Oti: in, wasn't.
KT: Process your fucking feelings, man. What is that it? Is that all for your first impression?
Oti: Yeah.
KT: Not much substance. Just like this film Al wow.
Oti: Wow.
KT: Um, I, I think I watched it for the first time a couple of years ago. Yeah.
Oti: Mm.
KT: I think we might have even had the For Your Reference podcast like created at the time, but I was like, nah, I'm not going. friends and lovers, we do cover a lot on Patreon that we choose not to do on the main feed. Um, however, I will say, watching it again that there are some Christmas notes in this film more than I actually gave it credit for.
KT: Um, but I also reference Die Hard a lot, especially when we talk about like long suffering characters like crawling through Die Hard Style, trying to get through some character development. Um, the one liners, oh, they killed me. They killed me. I was like, if you say one fucking one liner about this menial observation, I'm. I'm gonna throw the table. It's
Oti: the best thing about it. The cheesiness.
KT: You know what, Oti? If you like it, I love it. Not really, but I love that for you,
KT: um, this film was very much Michael Bay minus the American flags and minus the tuts.
Oti: Wow.
KT: Although for some reason Holly Gennero's top just came undone for like one scene accidentally. But rest in love and peace and power. Um, Alan Rickman, because the charms are undeniable.
Oti: How good was he in this?
KT: Oh he'll, he'll get his own section, don't you worry, Oti. Um, one more, one more snippy thing to say about this film. Um, you don't need to do any Google searches. Friends and lovers. I will do your Nicki Minaj ball Swollen research for you. The biggest import out of the US is Snarky Action Heroes in Blockbuster. The films
Oti: I see that I thought they already got your king of snark, Aaron Sorkin,
KT: Snark, Aaron Sorkin. Well, let's get straight into the themes, Oti. Um, and I think we can definitely put this one to bed once and for all. Not like whenever I say this is the last time I talk about White Lotus, and then I keep talking about White Lotus. Sound off. Christmas movie, yes or no? And feel free to elaborate.
Oti: Yes, it's a Christmas movie. What makes a Christmas movie? It has, it's based around Christmas check. There's festivities check. What more do you need for it to be a Christmas movie without it going the full Hallmark treatment?
KT: I would say the plot needs to be integral to Christmas.
Oti: It is. He saved lives so people can go home to be with their families during Christmas.
KT: He did not love his family. But don't worry. I have a separate theme for that.
Oti: You can't turn off the line, the whole grid. It's Christmas, man. Every decisions are being discussed, be it by the FBI, you know? Or, or, or John McClane as a character was, it's Christmas time, bro. Let's do it for c.
KT: Yeah, I, I guess so. I think in this open source of entertainment world, you need to be open to the idea that perhaps your opinion is just your opinion, and other people can also have them.
KT: I'm not saying it's to the level of Ariel is black, therefore my childhood is. But it's like, if someone doesn't think this is a Christmas film, then it doesn't ruin your childhood or what, whatever sort of non therapy process feelings, you project onto this film. Yeah. Um, but again, I, I will concede there are more themes than I would, uh, sni try and. Um, you know, they even had songs, Christmas songs in the background and, you know, that sort of thing. So fine. But you know, it's, it's not all it is.
Oti: It's more than that and I think that's what makes it even better.
KT: I wonder what the count for terrorists was in this
Oti: O
KT: I actually don't even care to say whether I think this is a Christmas movie or not,
Oti: but since we're recording a podcast, I want to hear your opinion.
KT: Pop, nice try, Johnnie Oti Cochran.
Oti: uh, put on the glove bro.
KT: if the men feel you must not reveal, eh, I actually don't care. Like I will jump into other, um, forums and fight, but I actually don't care. Feel free to come and fight me, but I'll probably fight, fight you on other
Oti: Fair enough. Fair enough.
KT: I wanna talk about the action in this film.
Oti: It has some pretty good action scenes. Um, you get your dose of ever so often. You know, you don't go a moment without feeling as if there's a moment in ritual. It's not full John Wick 3 or anything like that, but it's action moments. Uh, are quite good, especially for the time.
KT: So you're saying it doesn't give you time to process your feelings, it's just action, action, action,
Oti: No, that there's a lot of feelings to be felt. It's more, there's a lot more action than your average movie, but it makes sense in this. What, what, what made it a bit weird re-watching it or watching it again with you right now? Is that how much I noticed this stunt double service?
KT: don't think I noticed that either. And maybe, um, I, I don't know if the word is refining, but I think when you start having a podcast and you meaningfully discuss, um, film, you start to pick up shit like that because it got to a point. What was your indicator, Oti, and I guess this is closing any opportunity to talk to Bruce Willis, but what was your indicator that you could tell off the top that it was the stunt double and.
Oti: Yeah, it was so obvious, but it didn't take away from anything. It was just more like, ah, stunt double doesn't take away from anything because I don't expect Bruce Willis to do that. Yeah. Unless it's Tom Cruise. I don't crow.
KT: why you're really big up Tom Cruise. We have not covered Tom Cruise.
Oti: No. Tom Cruise goes out of his way to make sure people know that he does his own stunts. So if I see a stunt double when he's cried so much, I'll be like, oh bra, come on now.
KT: I enjoyed the action, you know, you know what you're getting into. It's an action film. And I, I was enjoying it. I just wasn't enjoying the classic one-liners. It was something about the, when they were in the boardroom table saying, make sure that they're dead, and then John McClane is like, shooting is like, thank for the.
KT: Fuck off, just, I couldn't handle it. All of these bloody lines were just getting in the way to any sort of, not even splooshing, just any sort of enjoyment, um, from me. But I, I acknowledge that that's within my self, that I do have a higher barrier to entry with these sort of genre, um, films. But I really enjoyed the action. Um, even seeing everything just blow.
Oti: Mm.
KT: There was, there was no expense spared in regards to the actual effects and blowing shit up, I wanna spotlight Hans Gruber, essentially Alan Rickman. I wanna talk about how layered this performance was, and it's kind of like, not to say everyone else were jokers in Black Panther and even Wakanda Forever, but having Lupita on the cast really brings that grounding and that gravitas. To the whole performance. Like, it, it, it essentially elevates the whole film. Right. And I felt that with Alan Rickman in this film,
Oti: the a hundred percent. He is so good, man. Like his performance alone, if you take Hans Gruber out of this movie, I don't think it remains as good as it is. He
KT: Hans Gruber out. It's just Woman King, right? Cause there's no enemy
Oti: Well, you've got the other terrorists who bloody do shit all Yeah. Uh,
KT: a very international Mr. Pitbull, Mr. 305, worldwide sort of, um, crew they had.
Oti: Yeah, true. Um, he was just amazing in this, I think the one qualm that I had was him not turning the photo over when he saw it the first time.
KT: Yeah,
Oti: saw it was like, uh, right. Whatever. I'm a curious motherfucker if I see that. I'm like, what's going on down there?
KT: I I, I did say that. I'm like, that's, it's not a big plot hole, but it's like if he had taken the time to just like turn over the picture. Right. I get that. But that doesn't overshadow the performance that he
Oti: Oh no. Not even. Not even. One of the things that I just loved about his performance is this is how nch he was about it. He just went on very cold blooded. I count two three. If you don't tell me, I'll shoot you
KT: unless it's John McClane and he doesn't shoot him a million times.
Oti: True that, yeah. Those multiple opportunities for different guys to shoot John McClane where he stood and they're all just pussy footed around.
KT: Oh yeah, absolutely. Speaking of pussy footing, I wanna put my whole pussy and my whole foot inside of their marriage. Thoughts.
Oti: At least we get to see John McClane admit he was a dickhead.
KT: Yeah. But what does that do?
Oti: It it shows growth.
KT: They were living apart for long enough that they had separate lives. The fact that she needed to see if she needed to get a spare room because he is not sleeping in the room with her, right? That's how long that they've been apart and they've had their qualms, quarrels, and quandaries. So no, and, Oti, do not, again, go to therapy. Don't take that out of this rule book. You can't just save a skyscraper full of people. And then I'm gonna forgive.
Oti: What does it take for you to forgive someone? If not save your life
KT: process, your man feelings without walkie talkies.
Oti: He processed it. He processed it with Al, you know,
KT: but even Al was like to yourself, and it's like, why are you telling Al Why are you doing this heroic
Oti: It was more tell yourself because you're going to live, not tell yourself because I don't wanna listen to it
KT: Well I think there was a deleted scene of Al saying, and can you tell my wife why I've been such a shitty husband,
Oti: No. Clearly he is a shitty husband, but he is been a shitty husband. But, and even when I told you the first thing that when we, when he got to like Nakatomi Plaza and the wife was super excited to see him.
KT: Yeah.
Oti: And then he started opening his mouth.
KT: He ruined
Oti: And he just ruined it. Yes. I was like, right. All he needed to do was just keep quiet. Yeah. Don't say a word.
KT: gross. Like disgusting. And again, unfuckingfortunately, even in the 2020s, there are men and partners that harbor this, these sort of traditional gender roles. You know, we're we're acknowledging that even for the eighties, like this was kind of on tempo, um, for the temperature of traditional sort of gender roles.
KT: However, just personally it was disgusting and you are right. He shouldn't have said anything. He should have just stayed there washing his little gar. And just like be it with it. It was gross. He made it feel like she was doing like a little hobby and she's like exec level at this company.
Oti: One of the other things was that he admitted that the fact he only allowed her to go was because he knew he was gonna fail.
KT: Okay. But I also don't like the way you framed that she allowed her to go, but I'm acknowledging that you are describing the characters in the film, and that's not how you feel as a man.
Oti: Oh, are you coming for everyone? Hey.
KT: it's a Die Hard trap.
Oti: Uh, like you can see he has issues, but if, what do you want in a movie? If not to see character development, which is what we got with him.
KT: Cause he started at a deficit. That's why why
Oti: was still growth.
KT: Well, and, and I guess, You know, Oti, because you've watched the other sequels. I know it's been a long time. I skipped right ahead and I watched the one with Jai Courtney. Apparently I've got a lot of Jai Courtney Spartacus tax. Mm-hmm. Um, but can you recall from the second and subsequent sequels, did they end up having a great marriage? Because I doubt it.
Oti: Yeah. Probably not, man.
KT: Exactly. And doesn't the court rest, your Honor.
Oti: It can rest, but you have to judge by what you see and what's been presented. And what's been presented is John McClane knowing that he's a shit person and is accepted that and is going to do better.
KT: Okay. I, I feel like you're saying some of the things that are correct just to hide the terrible things that you're also saying as well. Um, but, and friends and lovers, shame on you if you thought we were gonna spend more time talking about action and not talk about the marriage dynamics of these two.
Oti: Mm-hmm.
KT: I just like, I think his machismo was very useful for the vehicle of the film. Um, but him as an actual character, like he was doing it for his ego. He wasn't really doing it to save all the people, was
Oti: Nah, I can't agree with you there. He did it because first and foremost, the mother of his kid is there. I don't think, if you take Holly out of the picture, I don't think he puts as much effort into saving everyone. Yes, he's a cop. He's duty bound to do that, but that's what spurred him.
KT: He's a bit of a thrill seeker by nature. So I feel like he would either way.
Oti: Yeah, he would probably, but it inspired him, even further, when he felt like he couldn't continue, you know, to all your love. You know, that moment right there, that's what I was gonna do this.
KT: but the being like the heroic gesture isn't saying shit like that when you think you're gonna die. The heroic gesture is showing up every day when it's fucking hard. That's what the heroic gesture really is.
Oti: Tell that someone who's never been faced with death like he has, they'll be like, oh, the hero just has to say that when I can show up every other day. But when there's a gun pointing at you, people trying to kill you left front and center for you to have the nerve and the, and the frame of reference in mind. To be like, Hey, there's more important shit that I want to take care of in my life. That's all. That's what counts man, in that moment of need where you feel like it's all hopeless.
Oti: Yeah, that's the toughest time to be reflective. Not any other Sunday.
KT: I, no, I, okay. Again, I, it's been a long fucking year.
KT: Friends and lovers, like, I don't agree, but I don't care enough to fight you. Hard. Um, I don't know, man. Like it just, Obviously it's not the through line of all of the sequels, so I guess no one aside from us in this current recording actually care whether they have a thriving and keyword healthy, um, sort of marriage. But I thought it, I thought it would be interesting, um, to discuss it here, but it seems like you've got an answer for any sort of observation, Oti.
Oti: as I always do.
KT: Would you say that this film and, and may I, may I be so bold, may I be controversial on the podcast, Oti? Mm-hmm. Would you say that this film falls into the genre of propaganda?
Oti: Uh, it's not SVU level
KT: change his occupation, change even his race. Does he get to up CAE around the building? Probably not.
Oti: I don't think his occupation is what gives him the skills to do or he what he does.
KT: So you're saying it was all finesse?
Oti: Yeah, I can't, I can't fault it. Usually,
KT: I would, I would reference Whiplash. You know, if you know how to play the drums, you're not bleeding. If you're bleeding while you're playing the drums, you're doing it wrong. I would apply it to Bruce Willis's, um, John McClane. Like, like there were some fumbles there. Like I wouldn't necessarily say he did it without blemish.
Oti: I don't know what movies you've been watching where people don't get hot will try to save other people. Uh, like unless, yeah, actually maybe you watch too many Steven Seagal movies that you're like, that's how it's supposed to be. But now at some point Steven Seagal is to be punched a bit. His movies are just bloody ridiculous. He walks in fresh as, walks out fresh as at the end of the movie. No one
KT: older and he couldn't move around as much, or
Oti: No, always.
KT: I've never watched Steven Seagal. Maybe that should be on our
Oti: yeah, no one ever touched him. It was ridiculous.
KT: Okay. Since you've known me, since you've known me this long, do you think I would like his films or him as a character?
Oti: I think you'd like the ridiculousness. I, I'm not sure we watching it now, how they'd look like, like for I've gay if you are.
KT: okay. Right, mark in your calendars, friends and lovers, there'll be a Seagal Spectacular coming out sometime. I wanna give a shout outs to Paul Gleason because I love Breakfast Club. And you'll notice we haven't covered The Breakfast Club and that's Oti's fault. But now that I've conceded and watched your Die Hard, we're definitely gonna do Breakfast Club. Paul Gleason plays the very, very mad, very finger wagging, sort of authoritative figure, um, that he does in Breakfast Club as well as Die Hard. And I thought he was a lot of fun.
Oti: I thought it was shit all the times I've watched it. I don't like him as a character.
KT: So did Roger Ebert.
Oti: He didn't like him.
KT: Yeah, he, he gave the first Die Hard film a low rating because of this character.
Oti: he was annoying ass. He was really, really annoying. Um, he was one of those people who, you know, they've gotten there because they know someone, anything other than bloody skill got him to that position. Wow. It's fact.
KT: I just like seeing him mad. Like some characters. You like seeing mad, you like Samuel Jackson and I like seeing Paul Gleason get.
Oti: I don't know about Steven.
KT: Check out our Django episode, friends and lovers. Um, and I guess while we are here as well, this isn't the first Bruce Willis. We've done no Pulp Fiction. Go and check out Pulp Fiction. We did a whole Tarantino's. He was giving, he was serving a lot of to Bruce Willis in this film. Wiggle your big Bruce Willis toe. Am I right? I wanna talk about, um, like some weird sort of racial moments in this film. Uh, friends and lovers, you know, I think I might have mentioned it in the Nope.
KT: Or King Kong or both, um, review episodes. There are films that are films in every sense, and some people may even call them masterpieces. However, they are not immune to being weird racially, right? And. I said it, you would be hard pressed to find, you know, people covering Godfather and mentioning the little glitch in time where they talk about black people in a very derogatory sort of way.
KT: Right. And in this film there was, you know, there was some instances in there, like even with like the Japanese businessmen was a bit weird here. Um, you know, there was references to Pearl Harbor. So it's hard to know which jab in which direction, but, um, it was, it was interesting to see the way it happened in the film, but I think the, the weird sort of racial very, if you blink, you'll miss up moment was with that fucking reporter.
KT: Mm-hmm. how he like forced his, he strong armed his way in threatening to call immigration if, if she didn't let him in.
Oti: That was fucked up.
KT: But that's what I'm saying. Like I think for a lot of, um, you know, ethnic people, they'll see that and it was one line, but they'll remember it. Mm-hmm. Some people don't have the luxury of forgetting that. Cause I remember that. I'll probably reference it in 200 episodes. Time doubt it. Um, I wanna finish off in talking about the heist in my best Rick voice. Son of a bitch, I'm in.
Oti: It was a well thought out plan. Yeah. Um,
KT: like, I think this was the most effective heist we've seen.
Oti: He had thought out the plan of how to open the vault using the FBI playbook and all that, which was quite interesting, you know, so it wasn't like Money Heist, the Professor level. I don't, I wouldn't say
KT: think Hans Gruber is top tier, and then El Profesor is somewhere like minus t.
Oti: may. He puts some respect on the Professor
KT: bra. He went up to a police car and put his fingerprints all over it. Unless they don't check the fingerprints in Spain, I dunno.
Oti: Hans couldn't kill one person. He couldn't get away because of one person. It's like this Scooby gang. Scooby-Doo gang gang. I would've got in away if it wasn't for you. pesky McClane. Nah. Come on now.
KT: Better than the Harrison Ford. Scrappy-Doo Air Force One Action.
Oti: Yeah. The Zo dying there, but it was well thought out. I think the only bit for me was he couldn't control his crew. Karl's brother died and Karl just went off the ledge. Yeah. You know, he, he was like, revenge. I'm gonna do this. And this is one of the things that I, I always say, if you are in the game like this, you've walked into the building, you've already killed couple of people, and then one thing happens to your. Doesn't, the relationship doesn't even fucking matter.
Oti: You went there knowing the. You've killed people already of, don't you think those people have brothers as well? Yeah. Or uncles or fathers. Fucking hell take it in the chin, go execute your mission and you cry later. Yeah, don't sabotage everything.
KT: Yeah. And I think it was also Pacino in Heat. Like have no collateral if you're gonna get in the game.
Oti: Yeah, just, just be better. Yeah. I think that's where Hans could have been more calculated or called. Cause he knew immediately that Karl would have an issue. Yeah. I would've just taken him out. What, what value did he add at the end of it? Nothing.
KT: He became an outlier at that point. Yeah. Interesting. But I would say the crew that he kept were quite skilled though
Oti: Everyone else was quite skilled. Um, it was weird saying the Theo was taken out with just one punch from Argyle, or pla Davis.
KT: Argyle has those cute manicured nails. Like he's never seen a hard days work in his life.
Oti: And he knocked out someone
KT: yeah.
Oti: Wow. Theo needs to evaluate his career preferences.
KT: Well, like Argyle needs to be like a pro wrestler because, I don't believe, I don't believe he could even jump to the window to like punch him.
Oti: man. One punch him standing outside of the car and Theo was out. Yeah. Come on now man. Do better be better. Get outta the game. What the hell?
KT: But Theo was very skilled as well.
Oti: He was skilled in what he did. Uh, he didn't give us the 50 Cent sort of hacker vibes, which was good. That's the bar man. That's the bar. 50 Cent hacker. Are you above that? You pass? Mm-hmm.
KT: It's a petty bar. All right. I, I guess we're slowly compiling a list of ski lasher type characters that throw people under the bus at whim. I wanna talk about Ellis.
Oti: oh wow. He is a ridiculous man.
KT: I think he thought he was an American Psycho, like he was in the wrong movie
Oti: He thought he thought his shit. Don't. Dang. Oh, I'm a business negotiator. I deal businesses for a living. I can handle this shit. Yeah. If I was McClane, I don't even think I would've tried to rescue him. I would just been like, okay, bro, good on you. I'm not giving up. You do what you.
KT: Are you, are you the equivalent of Billy Porter? You just choose who and when you wanna save people.
Oti: Yeah. How else are you going to tell them? My house is on top, I guess, but I think that was the most satisfactory sort of death Oh yes. I was like, Oh, come on. Cathartic to the core.
KT: Yeah, I agree. I agree. Cause I was like, he needs to go. He needs to go in the most vicious, brutal of means, but he needs to go.
Oti: One of the deaths that I didn't really like was Takagi's death. Yeah. Because he knows what's up. He knows these guys are dangerous. Yeah. He knows whatever's in the safe. Doesn't matter. He was like, give them reasons why they can't get to the safe.
KT: Yeah. Let them figure that out. And I think Hans said
Oti: that unless you own the fucking company, unless it's not even, then you have fucking insurance. It doesn't matter. Just give them, yeah. What's this tough guy attitude? Or you gonna die for someone's bond? Yeah, it was so ridiculous.
KT: Or maybe it's toxic masculinity, he'll go home and his wife will be like, why didn't you try and save them
Oti: Save the bonds compared to my life. Uh, if, if your wife is like that, you better walk away.
KT: We're not doing this. Kevin, Oti, Samuels.
Oti: What is our podcast? If I can't give the best relationship advice is out there.
KT: Pay for your own marketing. You won't spread your toxicity on this podcast, Oti.
Oti: Uh, but it was wild. I was like, come on now, man, you, you're gonna die for nothing,
KT: Idiot. Um, there's something I wanna say in regards to the, like the heist slash terrorist. Um, I don't feel like even if they didn't use the word terrorist in the film, I don't think the ethos or the driver from Hans Gruber and the team, like, I don't think it was compelling. Maybe in an action film. You don't need to dig that deep. However, it was distracting to me because even though Hans Gruber was very efficient, it wasn't necessarily clear to me what the leading sort of motivator was.
Oti: Yeah. I guess once you, they label them terrorists, there was like an expectation that their motive will be something more than money.
KT: Like altruistic or,
Oti: Yeah, but it wasn't, they were just there for the money, which is fair enough.
KT: I, I guess it's interesting because the director, John talked about how initially he was a bit put off by taking on this film because of the heavy sort of subject matter. So he watered it down, but that don't make sense cause you kept calling them terrorists, but they were just there for.
Oti: Yeah. Like even everyone seemed disappointed, including the, the cast. You only did this for money. Everyone said that haul claim. They all said it fucking money.
KT: But it's interesting because now when you look at the tapestry of cinema, there are so many summer blockbusters that center around the theme of terrorism and it, it does go to those depths of levels. But maybe in the late eighties it was too early
Oti: maybe, so, maybe it was a victim of its time. Uh, maybe we could, we could have gotten a Die Hard with deeper themes. Then again, no, I can't fault it for what it is. I think it was quite enjoyable watching it as a kid and understanding everything
KT: So you understood everything as a kid. Does that speak to your intelligence then, or no?
Oti: Both.
KT: Well, your humor exceeds Stratosphere is my love.
Oti: No. Cause like movies you're watching as a kid and I couldn't understand, or I thought I understood it until I re-watched them now and I'm like, oh, wow. What the fuck? So I, I'm glad that what I remember as a kid is what I know now. So,
KT: propaganda for babies. Am I right?
Oti: Propaganda for babies.
KT: Thank you friends and lovers for joining us another week in the For Your Reference household. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference, Oti.
Oti: I'm gonna reference The Sixth Sense because we've also covered it on the pod.
KT: Ooh, very nice, Oti. I'm going to reference an action packed men still not processing their fucking feelings. Tulsa King
Oti: Oh wow.
KT: Well, if you wanna talk about fractured family dynamics, it's absolutely there.
Oti: Mm-hmm.
KT: if you would like to talk about our fractured fyr dynamics on Twitter and Instagram we're @ForYourRefPod.
Oti: Write us an email, hello@fyrpodcast.com.
KT: We're also on. All I Want for Christmas is Man Feelings Podcast if you like to leave a rating and review and we'll see you guys next week. you. Bye.
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