Bullet Train – Pop goes the Diesel
Hosted by
KT & Oti
Show Notes
Lean into the frivolity through fun dialogue, character backstory and getting emotional over fruits and unnamed locomotives. Hop aboard and enjoy the ride with Bullet Train this week.
Episode Details
- Duration
- 0:00
- Released
- October 4, 2022
- Category
- Episode
- Hosts
Transcript
Transcript (7,105 words)
Full transcript of Bullet Train – Pop goes the Diesel.
KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and it is not a serious opener, but it is just as spy. This cold open is dedicated to Brian Tyree Henry, I would've said we covered the Eternals, but that was on the Patreon feed and also ridiculous Brad.
Oti: We love him,
KT: But get outta here. We're talking about Brian Tyree Henry, let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and locomotive lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your KT
Oti: And Oti
KT: Lean into the frivolity through fun dialogue, character backstory, and getting emotional over fruits and unnamed locomotives. true, true. Hop aboard and enjoy the ride with Bullet Train this. We ride a dawn motherfucker. I'm having a lot of fun. Really. Woohoo. Spoiler. Spoiler spoiler. Vitamin C. Vitamin C. Vitamin C. Are you all vitamins up. Young blood spoil up.
Oti: bro.
KT: Uh, let's get into general stats and information. This film is, I guess you could call an adaptation, a book that we need to add to our reading list, perhaps friends and lovers. Uh, Maria Beetle by Kōtarō Isaka in regards to director, uh, Jonathan. Then is coming out soon. Make sure you go and check out our episode on Jonathan Kinston.
KT: Uh, we have Director David Leitch in regards to writers. We have Zak Olkewicz. It was released in August of 2022 and, uh, released by Sony. Sorry, I'm, I'm getting excited. I really, I'm gonna break the, uh, reference curtain right now. I really wish we was this in cinemas. Me too. I'm big mad fan. Because I have a lot of time for Brian Tyree Henry. The same thing with Confess, Fletch, like yes, I do love Jon Hamm, but Roy Wood Jr. Was my.
Oti: Wow.
KT: Just like, I'm not here for Brad Pitt. I'm here for Brian Tyree Henry. Oh man.
Oti: And are you sure I'm the one with the tax?
KT: Oh, come on. Have you ever seen No. How dare Have you ever seen a bad Brian Tyree Henry performance ever?
Oti: No. No, But ever is such a small time span.
KT: Well, if I can play homage to his great British accent, fuck off.
Oti: Oh wow.
KT: a budget of 85.9 million and a worldwide gross of $233 million, Oti. That's a lot of Fiji water.
Oti: It is
KT: and shouts to the, the, I guess the nerds at Wikipedia. Um, the open source internet of the All because Fiji water is credited as the cast
Oti: It got a back story, bro.
KT: Bro, if that made you mad, like if Fiji Water getting a backstory made you mad, then you, you need to shuffle off the, the, the monotony and the mundane nature of being an adult and just have some fucking fun. Oh man. Oh man. Uh, let me get through, uh, a good chunk of the car so we can get to the show. Oti, there's something that I didn't even necessarily consider as a theme, um, and I think it's going to surprise you.
Oti: Oh,
KT: So I've got some themes I wanna talk about. Uh, but let me get to the cast. Brad Pitt, Fiji Water, Joey King, Aaron Taylor-Johnson, Brian Tyree Henry, Andrew Koji, Hiroyuki Sanada. Go and check out our Mortal episode. Um, but they really did Sanada dirty, like it was all about Scorpion. They didn't need to have, was a Cole
Oti: Mm.
KT: Man, this really appealed to my sensibilities. Michael Shannon. Mm-hmm. . Come on now. Benito Antonio Martínez Ocasio, otherwise known as Bad Bunny, Sandra Bullock,
Oti: Mm-hmm.
KT: and also shoutout to our Hiro from Heroes. Uh, Karen Fukuhara wasn't in the main section, but she obviously deserves a shout out and shout outs to the astute Oti because in The Boys, in all of our Boys episodes, we do talk about how we want her to be casted with full dialogue.
Oti: give her voice pro,
KT: even in Suicide Squad,
Oti: let her speak.
KT: as Katana. Yeah. Yeah.
Oti: Too many. Nah, nah, nah. Even here, she got a funeral. A few dialogues in, but not enough. Not enough.
KT: Woohoo Man, man, man, man. It's so nice to fucking enjoy something. Who, Who? Let's get into first impressions, Oti. I've already revealed that I've been sping all over this recording so far. How did you. Leading up to this. Um, and how did you feel throughout and where do we find you now? My love?
Oti: Didn't know anything about the movie, which I'm happy, you know, because you were telling me, Oh, Brian Tyree Henry has a new movie. Like, Cool, cool. We'll, we'll get to see it once it's out. And then I think with the sort of, he told me that there sort of bad reviews about the movie.
KT: They're like, Yeah, we're not gonna go watch it in cinema anymore because we've had a lot of duds in the cinema. Man, I was really just gonna ride positivity today. But you go off king,
Oti: like I, I was, I was, I was not prepared to enjoy this movie,
KT: man.
Oti: Halfway
KT: through I was like, Okay, maybe it's gotta drop it to somewhere here, because where did come, is it? Is it Jessabelle? And we do love Sarah Snook, but man, that really, really took a turn. That film, and also, um, what's that? Rebecca Hall film with Tim Roth? Resurrection. Resurrection. That took a turn as well. But anyway, you continue.
Oti: Yeah, so I was expecting it to just sort of just do something that will take me outta the movie and not enjoy it as much.
KT: But it did not man engaged the whole time.
Oti: Yeah, I, I loved it.
KT: Hop aboard the Mugen Train.
Oti: I loved the characters apart from sort of Joey King's character where I was a bit, eh,
KT: she wasn't necessary.
Oti: Yeah. But everyone else fucking amazing. I just loved, I loved the ridiculousness. You could tell that David Leitch was all over in this, you know, you could feel the Jonathan Kinston up in.
KT: And I was there for it. I The action was a lot
Oti: lot. Yeah. I think, you know, when we've sort of watched a lot of the directors that we don't really vibe, we, we tend to know sort of, uh, this movie isn't that great because hey, this director has his tendencies or whatnot, but man, I don't think he can do any wrong.
KT: Okay. And Chad Stahelski? Mm-hmm. . Oh man. Wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow. You know, friends and lovers. And we are going to come to a particular theme, however, I did say, um, after watching it, It's nice to enjoy something without the race politics, and I'm putting the biggest ass fucking asterisks on that. Ah, I am, I am eating. I am eating my Kumbaya words.
Oti: I can see you trembling saying that.
KT: Um, but anyway, so, so my first impressions, I absolutely agree with you. I had so much fucking fun with this film, and I, I think it's very similar to like the new Suicide Squad film. Um, I, I don't think there's a lot in the market for adult entertainment in way of like, not just vulgarity, but like mature themes and also straight up fucking ridiculousness.
Oti: mm-hmm.
KT: Right. I think, um, for, for people that watch a lot of like straight lace shit, like maybe this tonally wouldn't make a lot of sense. Wear fucking sweaty wes in the corner , like without camco pillows. Like, I think, I would say for people that really enjoyed it, or, or maybe maybe. Opposite. I, I think people that didn't enjoy it probably don't get into like anime. They probably don't get down with anime or they
Oti: Oh, better yet.
KT: Yes.
Oti: Just pull that stick out of your bum.
KT: Oti, the seventh bomb of the world. Am I right? Go and check out our in between his episode, uh, Friends and Lovers, just while we are here. Um, but I would say if people didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't enjoy
Oti: it
KT: Um, and I think tonally it fucking worked Like this fucking appealed to me so much. There was something, and if we're talking about like the aesthetics as well, there was something reminiscent of Pulp Fiction to me. I think just getting to learn the characters and you know, like, um, , I feel like the only time I mentioned Tarantino is when he's talking about the N word or his portrayal or black characters.
KT: But one of the things he does really well is like mundane sort of dialogue. Right, And we definitely saw that between Lemon and Tangerine. Um, and no, I'm not just saying it because you have a black character and a white character. Um, the Vincent Vega of it all. Um, but I, I really enjoyed stylistically. It was a lot of fun.
KT: Um, the, the dialogue was a lot of fun. The character back stories, like the moment the snake got a backstory. We, Well, to be fair, we were already in, but I think we absolutely, we lost ourselves and ascended to heaven.
Oti: I remember, shout at you bro. How we seeing a snake back story
KT: was like, What the fuck? And then we got it and we got it. And man, this was a lot of fun. Like it's, I, I do say it all the time, like it's just not for me. I'm not gonna sit here and say it should be this, it should be that. But man, This was an out of the box plug and play into all of my Puss Valley. Like this was fucking ace. I fucking love this film.
Oti: Me too. I think when not only the dialogue worked, we know that his action scenes are quite tight, so that's a given.
KT: But giving us multiple characters you care for, you know, it's, it's, it's a, it's not a. It sounds simple, but it's fucking difficult. man. I cri, I cried over Thomas the Tank Engine and I cried over citrus fruits, like I just, Oh, it was so much fun. Okay, let's get into the themes. I've called this one Pain Trains at All the Fields.
Oti: Okay.
KT: so I wanna talk about the, not necessarily like a murder mystery, but how do you feel about genre films like centered around a Train? You know, I already referenced Go and check out our Demon Slayer, uh, episode you, We Players, um, and also like Murder on the Orient Express.
KT: We did read the book, Friends and Lovers, but we watched a recent film and we d we decided not to cover it. So, you know, go and check out our Demon Slayer episode, Your Nasty Wes. Um, but you have the Mugen Train arc. Um, we have Murder on the Orient Express as well as Train to Busan.
Oti: Yeah, it's something that doesn't really work that well, at least for all the train movies that I've watched.
KT: You know, Trains of Persona was good, but it wasn't solely on a train.
Oti: Yeah, it wasn't solely in the train. Like I'm thinking Taking of Pelham One Two Three or some shit like that. It was fine. Murder on the Orient Express. Tried to play too much of the angles and it fucking infuriated
KT: the overhead. Right?
Oti: Yeah. Uh, . But this, you know, it, it just worked with its simplicity.
Oti: He didn't try to be too complex. He didn't try to be too, Ooh, I'm gonna give you some fucking angles from, you know, Drone Z. Yeah, Its simplicity. Just carried it through without, without any distractions. You could focus on everything else that's happening, you know, you could focus on the dialogue quite nicely, which was fucking amazing. I think this is one of my favorite train based movies to date. Okay. Little box list, man. Okay. I I, I don't necessarily even have a mental list. Um, Simon Baker. How's he going,
Oti: man? I thought he'd be more by now.
KT: Okay. Um, let me find your sub post about Simon Baker, Oti. Um, I, I don't go out of my way to think about, uh, narrative centering trains. However, I do feel like it was core to the film. Um, so it did feel important and it did feel necessary, um, that, you know, it wasn't necessarily on a different sort of vessel of transportation. Um, I, I thought it was a lot of fun, you know, even, um, When you had Ladybug Brad Pitt's character, um, you know, even when he did his MacGyver shit with the golf club and that sort of thing, like, it, it was all very specific to the setting that they were in, which I thought was a lot of fun.
KT: Um, even like the one minute, uh, friends and lovers that are in or have been to Japan, um, would love to know more about bullet trains and if they literally only give you a minute, I've heard stories of like, God, Or, you know, staff pushing people onto the train. Uh, let's move on to the next light theme. Uh, films that are filled with celeb. Cameos, Usually they don't work,
Oti: Mm.
KT: but it fucking worked here. Why? Cause I'm thinking like Valentine's Day. I'm thinking
Oti: Movie 43.
KT: Yes. Love Actually. Or the lesser mans, The Holiday. That's, that's the one. If you, if you were late to Blockbuster, that's the one that you would have to rent instead of Love Actually, and then New Year's Eve, you know, there, there are lots of films where you're just like stuffing all of the celebs in all of the R offices, Gwyneth Paltrow group or otherwise. Um, so why do you think it worked here?
Oti: Because they chose such a solid ensemble, the main cast that every other cameo didn't feel like a distraction per se.
KT: Usually when you get a lot of those sort of come, it's more of, Oh, the story's gonna be shit, so I'll just give you faces that you already know and you'll freak out over that. Yeah. It's kind of like a, like a dance number.
Oti: It's the equivalent of Krieger's smoke bomb
KT: Absolutely. You're, you're right. Cuz it kind of like evens out the Justin Bieber effect and all of that, right? Mm-hmm. , I think it's also because, you know, like a list or otherwise all of the characters were serving the story.
KT: Yep. So they all. Sense, Even Ryan Reynolds, I guess you could say. Yeah. Um, I did try and plug in some relevant movie news one time before when I talked about Lady Gaga in Joker two, and you really didn't care for it and just ignored me. But I'm gonna try and do another relevant movie news to you. Now, how do you feel about Ryan Reynolds coming back in Deadpool and also potentially Hugh Jackman coming back as Wolverine in that Deadpool film? Thoughts, Feelings?
Oti: Good. I love Deadpool. What's not to love about it? Okay. Yeah. And Wolverine, what's not to love about him?
KT: All right. I, I was waiting for her tip hurt. Take,
Oti: Nah, no. Hot tipsy. Um, in it. Deadpool is one of those sort of, it doesn't take itself too seriously.
KT: And you know, I love those sort of movies. So give me more Deadpool. Give me more okay? I will give you more Deadpool and I will give you more Wolverine. You know why? Because our next theme is representation of race and cast.
Oti: Wow.
KT: Yay, Yay, Yay. Okay, so do you wanna share your thoughts first or do you want me to read you some
Oti: Give
KT: me the quotes. Okay. Um, I will, I will do a call back from a couple of minutes ago when I said I love that I was able to enjoy Bullet Train without thinking about like race politics. I said that after watching Bullet Train and then, um, you know, doing some light research, um, in the lead up to this recording. Um, I stumbled across, you know, some controversy and some, some. Some well earned criticism of Bullet Train,
Oti: Okay.
KT: But the waters be murky.
Oti: all right? Colour me intrigued. All right,
KT: Calling me bad We're all the culture friends and lovers. Uh, okay, so, so just as a general sort of gist, um, there was backlash, particularly from like the Asian American community, um, about the fact that it, unless you looked at the Invi individual character posters, you wouldn't even know that this. a, film that was set in Tokyo.
KT: Unless, unless you were looking at the individual character posters for the film, you wouldn't even know that there's Asian characters in this film. Cause they're all kind of secondary characters. If you think about Karen Fukuhara's character. If you think about Masi Oka, uh, Hiro from Heroes, he was also in the background as well. It was very, uh, white, top heavy . This film, and I'm not just talking about Michael Shannon's, um, whoa,
Oti: bro. We've, we've gone from Adam Driver, RJ. So now Michael Shannon,
KT: I don't have a fucking type. Right?
Oti: Clearly not
KT: And we still haven't covered Morris Chestnut, but that's a story for another day. I have thoughts, I have things I wanna say, um, but I'm just going to read the quotes that we have available. I wanna get your thoughts and then I'll share my thoughts.
Oti: thoughts Yeah, yeah.
KT: Are you ready? Yes, I'm ready. Okay. So this is, This is Joey King, and this is a quote that she made. Keep in mind, she's in the film, I do not believe a white woman should play a character of color, Not me or any other white woman for that matter.
Oti: Okay. Um, I agree with the sentiment, but then
KT: Okay. Do you want me to just keep reading?
Oti: keep reading.
KT: So keep in mind, um, Isaka is the author of the book that this film was adapted from. So when asked about the casting, Isaka defended the film and described this characters as ethnically malleable
Oti: What the fuck does that mean?
KT: Maintaining that his original Japanese setting and context were irrelevant as they were in quotes. Not real people. Maybe they're not even Japanese. Oh, come on. It stinks
Oti: Okay.
KT: It stinks. If you ever wanted to know what, I'm not gonna say selling out, but Wow.
Oti: Oh, bro. ,
KT: Look I look forward to your, your book about adventures in Kenya and saying the same thing, Oti.
Oti: Mm-hmm.
KT: We'll just see how much money will get you to bend that dollar.
Oti: Yeah. It doesn't fall, It doesn't jiggle me. It folds.
KT: Wow. Wow. Oti keeps up with, um, OG hip hop friends, lovers, uh, a couple of other quick ones. Um, the Sony group president highlighted Isaka's views and defended it, um, saying that it would still have the Japanese soul while giving opportunity to cast big names and adapt it on a global.
Oti: Okay.
KT: I feel like you're losing your Japanese soul as I continue
Oti: I
KT: more. I have one more. I have one more. Uh, the screenwriter, Zak, argued that the decision to cast beyond Japanese or Asian actors proved the strength of Isaka's work as it is story that could transcend race. I don't know. We watched Cloud Atlas and we saw how transcending race did love the Wachowskis and out of love for the Wachowskis. I will give Cloud Atlas another go. But we saw what transcending race looked like.
Oti: Mm-hmm.
KT: and it looked like Chet Hanks.
Oti: Boomer cloud.
KT: Okay. Okay. So we've heard a lot. Um, and then there was also a, an Asian American critic, um, that was talking about it, um, saying that, you know, it's, it's not cool cuz even when it's a story about Asian people, they're in the back.
Oti: Yeah,
KT: I see that. And also there was like an executive sort of sentiment saying, um, you know, in an Asian market they're so used to seeing only Asian people, so they're quite interested because they love H Hollywood films. They would be very interested.
Oti: Lemme finish.
KT: That would be very interested to see foreigners instead of Asians. Okay. This turned into a South Park episode, but thoughts? Give me your thoughts because I also have thoughts. I want to, um, sp all over you
Oti: Bra I knew, I knew there had to be something when I you and he said, Oh, it's, it's, it's, it doesn't have any political
KT: No, I, I said, I said put an asterisk on it and I'm gonna come back
Oti: to it. Oh. Um, well, okay.
KT: Uh, fast, Joey King saying, Oh, character should be, you know, should be comfortable playing different race sort of character, Emma Stone trying to play a Hawaiian. It's giving Scarlett Johansson trying to play a tree.
Oti: Yeah. Like I'm not sure that, again, I agree with the sentiment in terms of how, you know what?
KT: No. Like she, Well, what she said. Yeah. What she, But not her action. Yeah. Okay. Alright.
Oti: Cool. Now to the writer, I, I don't think that, Fair to say.
KT: Do you mean the author of the book? Yeah. Okay.
Oti: Him saying that it's not necessarily, um, they're not necessarily even Japanese, even if
KT: stand by. It just,
Oti: Come on man.
KT: like if George R. R. Martin said, Oh no, they don't have to be related in this sex scene. No, it is very clear. The, the thing that gets you off is the fact that they're incestuous.
Oti: Yeah. We, we actually need to look into that guy for a bit, you know, just see
KT: away from him.
Oti: you. Yeah. . Yeah. Like stand by your fucking walk. It's pays in fucking
KT: Could you imagine if they put like 80% white people in Pachinko? Oh man. I would riot.
Oti: Pat's not necessarily based on Korean people. Ho ha ha.
KT: actually, now that we're talking about it, you know what? This becomes Prey.
Oti: It does become Prey
KT: I love, I love that they, you know, in regards to native representation. However, I feel like in the 2020s it's time to go full Comanche sub and dub. Um, so it's like, let's do it. Like let's go all the way and then like all of the characters were speaking English, but they didn't understand each other. You know what I mean? Like let's get to a point where we can get to the point.
Oti: Yeah. And so all of those things when Parasite won the award and people are like, Oh, we need to make a US version of Parasite. No, you fucking Don.
KT: But see, this is where I have qualm, and this is why I'm adjacent to the Bong Hive with my little table outside of the official But Bong Joon-ho would've signed that off.
Oti: I know. Which is, it's
KT: not like some British Museum, black market off selling of his ip.
Oti: but at the end of the day, you want him to make his money and also for the world to be open to,
KT: know, You know what? That also means that the rights to Oldboy was also willingly sold.
Oti: Yeah, of course.
KT: course. Jesus, you know,
Oti: they're not Lion King, it, they're not doing Kimba all over again with this. They're buying the ips or trying to, you know, so they can recreate them in their old fucking Western way and ruin most of the time.
KT: Something that I really enjoyed about Bullet Train as well, I was like, Uh. Cause when you have, Well, to be fair, we didn't know Joey King was going to play a British person, or Brian Tyree Henry. Like I just, sometimes when you have like a lot of Americans in a non-American context, the whole story is about them experiencing non-American things.
KT: And I was like, Oh, but then I'm glad that this film wasn't that. Right. Albeit the, albeit the American invasion that happened. Um, but yeah. So any other general thoughts in regards to the race? Like did you even think of that watching the.
Oti: I did, but I pushed it back to my mind. Okay. So that I could
KT: watch the backstory of the Fiji water.
Oti: Yeah. I get the disappointment in all in not having Asian characters at the forefront for this. You know, we only had like Kimura and the Elder and that wasn't really like, it was like bra, more characters could have been Asian.
KT: Oh yeah, absolutely. You know, I think it was also, um, , you know, if we wanna talk about like Jody Turner Smith, um, with Lin and that sort of thing.
KT: Like, I think because they casted other diverse actors, maybe it was easier to ignore the fact that Asians weren't at the forefront of this film. Um, but my general thoughts, so I kind of expected it to be. Like I saw, I saw Brad Pitt. I saw Joey King, and they were talking for, and they were taking a lot of screen time and I'm like, Okay, we're going to have a top heavy white cast in this.
KT: Right? I knew it was based on a, a book from Japan. I knew it was gonna be set in Japan. Um, but I kind of expected. You know, um, being on this podcast covering a lot of films, obviously Tarantino, company included, like, I knew this was gonna happen and you know, I get mad about The White Lotus, but it's like Hollywood gone to Hollywood, I suppose.
KT: So I was kind of already ex. Expecting that. So when I say I was surprised that I wasn't, um, like I didn't experience any sort of race politics, it was more in the sense of the themes that were covered in this film weren't necessarily in regards to that. Um, I Yeah, you're right. You there was no way you couldn't notice that , like most of the characters we're focusing on are white, uh, or at least a lot of them aren't Asian.
KT: As main characters. Main main characters. And then even when you get near the end of the film and you have, Hiroyuki Sanada or maybe he's just got a really high fee charge because it's like, why didn't we get that? The whole fucking film? Yeah, right. Um, but anyway, so there was no way to ignore it. But at the same time, like I, I just assumed they were going to expect us as an.
KT: To just be like, Oh, it's an international city, you know? That's why we've got all these international people, You know what I mean?
Oti: Yeah. And I, and I do get that. I think because we had, or for, from my perspective, seeing Zazie and Brian, I was like, Oh, cool. You do you man but
KT: your tax. Yeah. I'm sure if we were to talk to Asian people or maybe if you catch me in AAPI month, I would, I would speak a lot differently about this film.
Oti: Yeah. But they had such small role apart from Brian maybe, but, But even, he didn't even get that much sort of screen time, but we had like more main characters that, you know, it could have probably gone to an Asian Boston.
KT: no, probably it could have.
Oti: Yeah, it could have.
KT: Rich Asians proves that the box office it's going to sell and, And my friends and lovers, please send me your address so we can sign the petition for Ronny Chieng to be Shahi and Shahi.
Oti: And I think the sentiment of, Oh, where the Sony president was like, Oh, we are doing it so we could get more attention to the film or make it more international things like Para Crazy Rich Asians goes to show you that it doesn't fucking need.
KT: You know, um, the audience is, has fucking grown from the days of fucking King Kong, Oh.
Oti: you know, So we are mature enough to, to appreciate content as it is Uhhuh, and anyone who isn't, they need to do the fucking work. So let's, let's, let's create for what, what we see the industry to be, rather than what is currently trying to be like holding onto the fucking bottom of the barrel.
KT: Sort of people who are like, Oh, if it's subtitles, I'm not gonna watch it. What the fuck? Friends and lovers, uh, For Your Reference is a place of learning and it is a place of growth and Oti. I'm going to ask the hard 60 minute question. We talked this big man shit about representation, but we also fucking enjoyed this film. So aren't we the fucking.
Oti: I think there two, We could look at it from two angles.
KT: A I didn't technically cheat be.
Oti: didn't over the
KT: close.
Oti: Doesn't count
KT: Over the close. Sibling loving is fine.
Oti: Oh wow. Okay. Uh, well now I feel bad for enjoying. But I think,
KT: I think everyone feels bad about sibling loving,
Oti: Eh, You'll be surprised. Not everyone I think there's an aspect of, okay, we can enjoy it for what it fucking is from a, you know, base level and also still ask the hard-hitting questions at the end of it.
KT: Well, we love Godfather.
Oti: Yeah. So we're not resting on our laurels and being like, Hey, we demand more. Even though I enjoyed. It can be better. Yeah. And you can do better as well.
KT: Well, that was very pointed in saying, You can do better. You also can do better, Oti. Okay, that's enough. That's enough of that seriousness. Let's get back into the nonsense and the ality. Which character do you wanna start with?
Oti: Lemon and Tangerine,
KT: Right? They kind of made the film for me. And I will say, you know, in a lot of films, when it's mentioned more than three times, it gets annoying. But I like, I enjoyed it every time I was worried, every time it was mentioned, whether it was going to bother me, but I feel like with, with Less, with a lesser actor, it would've been fucking annoying. But Brian Tyree Henry just has a fucking endearing nature that I just love. He just, he does it so.
Oti: To be honest with you,
Oti: the moment where I thought that overdoing it a bit, not that I did, like, I, I got that sentiment and I enjoyed it, but I felt like we could, we could have used less of that for a bit. Just Okay. Just a little sort of, you know, let's do better in this regard as. Oh. But yeah. Um, they definitely made this, they, those super, you could tell the chemistry between those two Yeah. Was great. I think I loved seeing them back and forth and even, even their backstory was super emotional, you know.
Oti: and I just, I could not take myself away from not loving these characters or even being invested in their sort of success up until the end Uhhuh, you know, and their sort of Romeo and Juliet moment where, where Tangerine thinks that Lemon's dead, you know? And then he dies and we get Lemon waking up later. Man, that was, that was sad.
KT: They, they Romeo and Juliet-ed them. they were a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. Well, since you said that, um, it got annoying, so you think the Thomas and the Tank Engine thing was too annoying?
Oti: Not too annoying. I think it was funny at some points, but I think the aspects or moments, I can't remember the specific scene, but there was the specific scene I was like, Yeah, you don't need to bring this up right now.
Oti: Cause I think in the, within the first five minutes of meeting Lemon and Tangerine, they mentioned it so many times. I was like, Okay, I get it. Let's, let's use it with other people. Let's use it differently. Yeah. But, um, yeah, but that's such a small qualm compared to what was
KT: I would also say like, um, with lesser acting, it would've gotten annoying and it would've been one dimensional. Cuz it's like, haha, guy, you wouldn't expect enjoying Thomas Tank. And like that would grate on me. But again, like in, in my heart, in my mind, even including Eternals, Brian Tyree Henry can do no
Oti: Yeah. But you know what? Rescued the usage of that for me at Where I, I, I initially thought it was getting a bit too overused was when Tangerine notices the diesel stick on Joey King.
KT: pop goes the diesel.
Oti: And I was like, For, yeah, this, this right here is what I need because everyone was working, buying into Joey King's tears and whatnot.
KT: And are all trained assassins.
Oti: Yeah.
KT: And if everyone is off the train, why is she still there? You know what I. Absolutely. And yeah, definitely. Um, I absolutely agree with you. I, yeah, obviously I'm just gonna love all over Brian Tyree Henry. Um, Lemon was a lot of fun. Like them, you know, the, the cutbacks.
KT: I, I can, I personally don't see it, but I could understand why people might get annoyed with the back and forths. Like even when they were trying to figure out whether it was 16 kills or 17. I enjoyed it. Like I think it worked, but I think you kind of need to be bought into this film, which I guess you could say is a lot of it, it's, you know, the Wachowski effect.
KT: Go and check out our Matrix episode. Um, friends and lovers, like you need to buy into the premise to be able to, in some cases you can still watch a film and enjoy it, but this one you had to actually buy in. Otherwise it's just too ridiculous. And, you know, um, if I may quote Woodhouse Tripping Balls. I wanna talk about the Wolf.
KT: We haven't really mentioned anything about Bad Bunny. I kind like the idea of like getting rappers, or even since we're in the spooky October season, shout outs to Kelly Rowland and friends and lovers. If you didn't know we have a Freddy vs. Jason episode, um, we talk about Kelly taking one for the. Um, it was nice seeing Bad Bunny.
KT: Like I, I really enjoyed watching him act in this. Um, it felt very effortless. Like he, he fit in with the rest of the ensemble, especially because we're talking about how stacked the cast was. Um, And even, uh, Raising Kanan with Joey Bada$$, like I really enjoy seeing musicians, um, in screen. And, you know, I guess while we're talking about musicians in screen, um, Brian Tyree Henry, like his character Lemon, Getting all the way to the end, reminded me of LL Cool J's character in Deep Blue Sea
Oti: Yeah,
KT: that,
Oti: was his crucifix.
KT: Um, but yeah, I, I really enjoyed the Wolf's, uh, character. Um, he just did, he just did not have like any chance of happiness.
Oti: of mm-hmm. , but I think if he spent two minutes to look at the envelope he had, he'd know that he daughters up. Brad Pitt wasn't the killer. It was Zazie
KT: unless he thought he was looking at Morpheus. And it's whatever you think you see , go and check out our Sandman episode, Friends and Lovers. Um, I thought it was fun. Like obviously he didn't have a great childhood. He didn't even get to enjoy his wedding day. Um, you know, it probably would've been more fun to be at Louie and Jerome's wedding and snow. That's probably the better way to get spiked, um, at a wedding. Um, but I was really, I really enjoyed having him there.
KT: I thought he added to the film. Um, and yeah, he definitely stacked up to the rest of the YouTube was pretty useless. I, if I can be honest, which is frustrating because he's one of the few Asian characters that, first of all that are few, but also that get screen time. He probably got the most screen time.
Oti: time Yeah, he got, definitely got the most screen time and he did the least, cause half of it. He was in cap incapacitated in the bathroom at the other half. He was pretty much a prince's Colin, whim and,
KT: and, and also like the Elder is your father, like fully trained muscle memory, probably even with both eyes, clothes, 10 toes down could knock you out, right? You, you are the son of him and also it was identified that he worked for the White Death unless he was like a zero figures accountant. But in any case, I don't understand how he didn't have any sort of combated.
Oti: he did, because quite at the end we get to see him use his spear bit, you know?
KT: Oh, finally, for fucking once
Oti: stab. My qualm.
KT: does a lot more.
Oti: My qualm was why not text your dad? Why not ask your dad, Hey, protect my kid. Yeah. I'm going for revenge.
KT: To be fair, he did protect the grandson anyway.
Oti: Yeah, but if he knew that, that the Elder was looking after the grandson, he would have no problem dealing with the Prince.
KT: But I think it remains to be seen whether he had thes or skills to be able to do that. It was kinda like Mother's Milk being like, Yeah, Team Go, Man.
Oti: I think it would've been easy to, with the Prince, unless she is injecting V into herself. I don't think she should've been a problem.
KT: Wow. We're mixing worlds. Hey,
Oti: we are
KT: are the Compound V Train Hoo That seems like a deep, uh, commercial.
Oti: It does, doesn't
KT: Well, let's talk about the, um, were you surprised at, at the tie-in for the film?
Oti: No. Made sense,
KT: Made sense. And it wasn't one of those like Gotcha. It was just like, Oh yeah, cool.
Oti: Exactly. It, it didn't feel like an ex machina throwing something in there that we were like, Oh, come on, BRAF down. It made sense. We were like, Okay, cool. You're here. I think you could have communicated. With your son outside of that, I think he was one of the best characters in this.
KT: Yeah. Oh, ab Oh, oh, yes, absolutely. Mm. And I don't, It's interesting and may maybe in another format at a different time, because the thought of watching that Matt Damon, Great Wall of China film, I have no interest in. I have no interest in seeing Tom Cruise be a samurai. Like I feel like those are more egregious, but maybe that's because you're physically inserting white people into like figures in Asian history. Maybe that's why. Right?
Oti: Yeah, I, I, I see that. Well, I think with everything that's been raised, I think it's not for us to say, Oh, it's okay. I think if, if Asian people are like, bra, this ain't cool.
KT: Look at you, Aret doing the work.
Oti: Yeah, I've done the work, man. Like, I'm, I'm almost ascending.
KT: Well, I think I'm descending because I feel like I'm gonna. I feel like I'm gonna refer to many people as the White Death now.
Oti: Wow.
KT: Well, we talked about it. They, they used the, like, you know, the word black in a lot of things like black winter and, you know, all that sort of stuff. So it's nice to have some equal representation
Oti: just
KT: because, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's all, um, it's all ethnically malle.
Oti: Mm-hmm.
KT: what did you think about the big reveal? I like in my head, cuz you know, they always have that and friends and lovers very deep into, uh, Pamela's paninis. We did cover The Hunt, shout outs and we love Betty Gilpin, but there was a particular reveal, and I'm not going to, in case you wanna give yourself some sort of joy and surprise in life, um, but there was a reveal in The Hunt, which, ah, Right. So sometimes when you build up a reveal, it's not worth it. But I really enjoyed seeing Michael Shannon.
Oti: Oh, I thought you, I thought you were talking about Sandra Bullock being the reveal.
KT: no. Michael Shannon is, is definitely, um, was Is she, is she your White Death
Oti: Yeah.
KT: Yeah, it was really good seeing him. Um, he is one of those people that just brings a smile to your face. Oh, absolutely. Um, speak your smile to our face, Zazie Beetz. Uh, go and check out our Joker episode, Uh, our Friends and Lovers as the Hornet.
Oti: Yeah. She's a joker in this, isn't she?
KT: Really?
Oti: She deals in poisoning everyone. And has only one auntie do. Come on now. Yeah. She deserve to die that fucking death, mate.
KT: Wow.
Oti: Just for that alone,
KT: you're not rooting for everyone. Black. Hey,
Oti: Like how, how stupid can you be? I'm here poisoning everyone and I only have one job, man. Even with Covid, we're taking fucking four jobs. Okay? Do more man do produce more. You know, if, if you've watched Family Business, Orlando will not have let us slide.
KT: I think you've got too many 5G. S maybe you injected too much, Oti. Why you mad? Why are you fighting?
Oti: I'm just saying it was ridiculous.
KT: Woohoohoo. I wasn't expecting it to get spicy, but I guess that's our scoville level. Friends and lovers, uh, is there anything else you wanna say to wrap up the episode?
Oti: No, I, I enjoyed it, but we can also accept that we need to do the work and let Asian people play Asian
KT: Nice And lets it similarly otherwise I want Ronny Chieng instead and Shahi. Sign my petition, Oti. We're gonna finish off in the segment we call For Your Reference, Oti.
Oti: I'm gonna reference John w
KT: Ooh.
Oti: enjoy. Like you be disappointed.
KT: All right. And I'm gonna reference Train to Busan.
Oti: Nice
KT: but not Peninsula. If you would like to see Oti's Peninsulas on Twitter and Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod.
Oti: Write us an email.
KT: hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Let people write their own fucking stories podcast so you can leave rating and review and we'll see you guys next week. See ya. Bye.
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