Bel-Air – To Viv & Die in L.A.

Full transcript of Bel-Air – To Viv & Die in L.A..

0:00KT: It's another week in the For Your Reference household, and we are toasting Bel-Air Mansion and otherwise to the many, so far, reboots and remakes that we've already covered on this podcast. Mortal Kombat comes to mind, Chucky, Halloween. I guess we'll see how Bel-Air fares on that pendulum of continuing to reconsume consumable media. Let's get on with the show. Hey, friends and jawn lovers. Welcome back to the For Your Reference podcast. You got your host, KT.

0:00Oti: And Oti.

0:00KT: Well, this is a story all about sad.

1:05KT: A sad boy going to some sad rich people to live and die in LA. Is that right, Oti?

1:05Oti: Mhmm.

1:05KT: Let's get into general stats and information in other announcements. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, Possibly slapping, slapping, slapping. Right, Oti?

1:05Oti: Mhmm.

1:05KT: So this show was based off of the original Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. We're not necessarily going to cover the show today. And according to our in the alley

1:39KT: sort of statistics, I think we're all in the same sort of age group to be aware and really love Fresh Prince, but we're really not gonna get into that today. We're really going to focus on the reboot. So this was created off of Andy and Susan Borowitz based on a concept by Benny Medina, Jeff Pollack, Above the Rim. Some some great classics that we need to get into into the podcast developed by Morgan Cooper, Malcolm Spellman, TJ Bray Brady, and Rasheed Newson in regards to cast cast cast.

2:11KT: You know, I you always joke about how I said Daniel Kaluuya is an up and comer forever, and I will always hold that bastion Oti. But there there are some cast that I would like to keep an eye on, but just capturing off the top in IMDb, we have Jabari Banks, Cassandra Freeman, Jimmy Akingbola, and we gotta give a shout out to Olly Sholotan. Oh, apparently not. Let's get into first impressions. Like I mentioned, we will be covering the, release 2022

2:43KT: Peacock TV series, but feel free to give a little peppering about Fresh Prince. I'm assuming it made its way all over to Kenya. And how did you feel about this show? Because we definitely went on a roller coaster watching these 10 episodes. So take it away, my love.

3:01Oti: Yeah. I loved the original Fresh Prince. I think most of the people did. I really didn't know what to expect with this. We'd seen some nondescript trailer. I wouldn't even call it a trailer. It was more of a teaser of what to expect with the show. Very dramatic. Yep.

3:16KT: Very much drama.

3:18Oti: And to be honest, I wasn't keen on on watching it at first. So I think even watching the pilot, I was a bit skeptical. I didn't know whether or not we'll continue watching it. But for some reason, we watched the second episode out of I think we're just bored. And we're like, let's just you know what? Let's just rip this Band Aid. But that's what got us hooked and have not looked back.

3:44KT: Yeah. And I think it was from some encouragement from our beloved friends and lovers because I remember posting on Twitter and Instagram that we're pretty much done with this show and we were encouraged by quite a few people to continue watching the show. And I guess just generally, I I love The Fresh Prince. It's not to the level of Sister Sister where I can recall Lisa getting a scarf stuck in the rotisserie chicken aisle or the grocery store. And I guess that's a shout out to the Sister Sister friends and lovers out there.

4:15KT: But I did have a good time watching Fresh Prince. Like you, I was very dubious about the concept of turning such a jovial consumable sort of week to week sitcom, if you will, into a very dramatic sort of format. I was very dubious to it, but I guess the good thing podcast watching and many other tasting wise, we always give something a go. And I think it was credit to that that we actually tried it. It's very rare, friends and lovers, where we will not even try something. So

4:56KT: like like you said, even even though we had watched the first couple of episodes, there still wasn't a lot there. I would say, friends and lovers, if you're listening to this episode because you're like, ugh, I give up. You know, I I I don't wanna keep watching. I've watched a couple of episodes too. Well, we got to the end and I would say maybe not, but there was a whole journey and there were some interesting sort of arcs with the characters. So I would encourage you to continue.

5:23KT: But after that pilot, I can definitely understand why us and maybe other people decided not to continue or felt like it was a hard slog to continue because I guess understandably so, but no one is asking you as well. So I really put a lot of stock in the argument of, you know, there's a lot riding on their shoulders. There's a lot of expectation. No one asks you to do it. So if you're going to reboot something, if you're going to regurgitate what we've already regurgitated,

5:55KT: Like it needs to be done in a way that is interesting, that is compelling in some sort of way. And I think to get us to be steeped in the dramatic sort of sphere of Bel-Air was really, Oti would enjoy this Friends reference, a pivot. It was a very hard pivot. It was a very hard pivot to get us to where we needed to be and what we knew the show to be. And very naturally, because we've grown up and for a long time, even though Will Smith became a blockbuster,

6:29KT: oh, there you go, Bad Boys. Go and check out our Bad Boys episode. But to do it and to do it when no one is asking, it was definitely a hard ask to do. And I would say even for myself, took me a while to stop being annoying, stop pulling my glasses up and be like, that's not how uncle Phil was. But to to be fair, rest in love and peace and power James Avery, because uncle Phil definitely had a presence to him. And I guess you can say he had a physical stature,

7:04KT: but he he he commanded so much in a room. So it was that sort of disassociation I had to do if I was going to enjoy it on some sort of level. Once we got past the pilot, I would say, it really felt like they try to fit everyone into the pilot. And unfortunately, that kind of like for all of the sort of care that went into some of the characters, Ashley kind of didn't really evolve past the pilot, unfortunately.

7:36KT: And I think because Will and Ashley had such a cute sort of dynamic in the original, I was expecting a bit more. The the treatment on Ashley's character felt very season three of The Chi to me.

7:49Oti: Oh wow.

7:50KT: Yeah that that's a deep doo dah cut right there. But I think generally, I really did I really did find myself enjoying week to week watching the episodes. I would say maybe from episode three onwards, but man, like, maybe we shouldn't start with this and we should continue being positive, but that finale, Oti.

8:15Oti: Yeah. Such a disappointment. I think they're building up to something grandiose that just didn't happen for me, and I kept up questioning, wait. What? Was that the secret? Was that it? Are you kidding me? Unsubscribe from Oprah's Book Club if that's the secret. Yeah. I'm like, why would Will get angry as that? And why would it destroy the family? Yeah. It's shitty, but not to that degree.

8:41KT: To draw it out. To to draw it out and to bring the big mandem, Geoffrey. Geoffrey, he deserves his own section, and we will come to the mandem in a second. But obviously, we're going to kick this show off with Will. It was very cringey. Again, a lot of the pilot I would put in the bin. I would probably start from episode two. But there was something about the setting up of his character. Like, he just came off a bit precious, you know? Like, even his mom,

9:21KT: it it was like she couldn't be on the screen and not mention that the crown was waiting for him. He had to just be ready to wear it. Yeah.

9:21Oti: That and the fact that Affecte mentioned jawn in

9:33Oti: a million times in the first episode alone.

9:36KT: And I I believe it's j a w n, jawn. Jawn.

9:41Oti: Wow. Like, wow. It's like watching Kin and hearing the say grand every time. Kings of Dublin. The take on Will was interesting. Think they gave him a lot to walk with. Yes. The pilot's a big miss, but once he gets through that, we get to see Will and his story develop in a in a more interesting way. We get to see him struggle with the repercussions of, you know, him fucking up Trey's life forever and really not dealing with it or even thinking about it.

10:14KT: Well, let's be clear about this, and I don't think there was any sort of remorse on Will's part. And I guess you could just chalk it up to being Khalid's young, dumb, and broke or maybe Wayne Brady's young, dumb, and broke. Right? But it did feel like he was taking no responsibility. But again, without having any children, I would imagine if you keep propping up your son to be a fucking prince, he's going to be a fucking asshole.

10:44KT: But you're absolutely right because he's the one that wanted the smoke. He's the one that wanted to go and fight Darnell. It made sense for Trey to have a gun because out here in these streets, it's not safe. No? Streets need a body. Streets do need a body. Wow. A compelling drum dramatic series, Oti. Mhmm. But yeah. Like, there were definitely some kinks that that we were working through in the first few sort of episodes. But what I really liked about it was sort of the the dynamic between him and Trey because

11:19KT: Trey Trey been the same, you know, like nothing changed about him. And there's nothing wrong with Will changing. There's nothing wrong with Will taking the opportunities, but there was a really there's a really poignant scene between the two of them when Trey's finishing up his visit and they're having this conversation, which I think also is is a callback to one of the I I I think it was in the first episode where Jazz is talking to Will and he's like, you know, this city will make you forget who you are

11:48KT: but I think the jawn forgot who the jawn was jawnin'. You know, of West Philly or Philadelphia in general, Quinta Brunson doesn't use jawn all the time. The kids don't use jawn in Abbott Elementary.

12:03Oti: Yeah. They're just not doing Philly right, are they?

12:08KT: But I I really like the levels that we had there because, again, there was nothing wrong with Will being given and taking advantage of opportunities that were handed to him. But at the same time, there is that is there is that sense of cleaning up your messes. Right? You you might not be a full adult, but you are a young man and you kinda need to take responsibility for the mess that you made. And, you know, it it was a cute little sitcom

12:39KT: intro. I got one one little fight and my mom got scared, but that was like elongated and was a compelling theme throughout all of this show. And I guess while we're here, what did you think about the storyline, you know, without having context of, you know, gangs in America? But what were your thoughts on Darnell going all the way to try and track him down in LA? Did that feel a bit, like, incredulous to you?

13:06Oti: It did, but I just chalked it up to they need to drop.

13:11KT: Well, it it definitely matched the big man tings that Geoffrey was bringing as well.

13:11Oti: Oh, yeah. Oh, Geoffrey is a fixer man.

13:22Oti: But his his insistence on following and and really hooked up on getting Will was a bit ridiculous. But I think how it was dealt with or how it disappeared, like, it was just a moment. It was a scene with Geoffrey saying, it's taken care of. And then next minute, he's dead.

13:43KT: Well, you did say streets need a body. We just didn't know it was gonna be from a Brittonian man. But I thought that was quite interesting and not for nothing, but it did remind me of The Wire when I think it was Bodie that was they realized that the radio like, kind of stopped outside of Baltimore Yeah. And, like, realizing how big the world is. So in my head, your local beef stays in the local area. Mhmm. But anyway, so, like, with Will's character but I'll tell you what, I cannot succinctly pinpoint when, why,

14:20KT: and how, but I came to to become endeared to Will, I. E Jabari Banks. And if we if we can talk very quickly about Jabari Banks, I am excited to see where he's going to go. I don't know if if it transcends out of this, and I kinda worry about this with Damson Idris outside of Snowfall. But if you say it outside of the context of this episode, I'll deny that I ever said it. But I I I do wonder,

14:49KT: you know, how far reaching Jabari Banks' career will be outside of this because he made me feel things. I didn't expect to, and I guess also surprised with Olly making me feel things with Carlton, but we'll get to that. But I think just generally, if we're talking about primo talent, Jabari Banks is definitely one to watch.

15:03Oti: Oh, for sure. He he he does bring the feels to this. It takes some warming up to same with Olly, but we do get that at the end, and I think they're definitely one to watch.

15:19KT: Absolutely. Is is there anything else you wanna say about Will? I would say that, you know, him hooking up with Lisa, come on, man. Hunter. Love messiness, Yeah. Yeah. No. At that point, you do love messiness because I'm sure there are many, many more, young women, young black women in Bel Air if that's what we're talking about. He was just Michael Ealy ing that shit, and we'll come to Michael Ealy in a second. But I really liked Will. I think tonally, if we're talking tonally,

15:53KT: there were definitely moments that they try to push Will's sort of goofiness in moments where it didn't necessarily make sense. It was still a forced moment, but I would say one of my favorite moments of him bringing the levity and being that sort of goofy is when Phil Banks, when they were doing the whole Yamacro thing, and they had, as Issa Rae would say, Insecure, is that choreography? Yep. Like I I think that was quite a cute moment. There are some cute moments. Well, didn't start off cute but when when Will and

16:29KT: Carlton were petitioning, they were trying to get votes for Phil or for uncle Phil. It it feels wrong to say Phil. Uncle Phil, you know, they they did have a brief sort of tips in regards to politics, and, you know, it needs to go beyond proselyting. It needs to actually service the community in a meaningful sort of way. Invite them to your thousand dollar table dinners. So the the I don't know. I think tonally,

17:01KT: it doesn't need to do anything because who am I really? But I I think if if if if something can be worked on, it can definitely be the tonality of the show.

17:01Oti: Yeah. I agree.

17:01KT: Who do you wanna go to next? Is Carlton the natural transition?

17:14Oti: Of course.

17:17KT: Okay. Thoughts? Feelings?

17:19Oti: So at start, he comes off very unlikable. I don't jive with him at all. It takes a bit of warming up to until they start giving him a story because we get introduced to him just being the acceptable black kid in a white school. Yeah. And it rubs Will at me the wrong way with how he accepts to be treated or he just thinks it's, oh, this is just for fun. And until he starts realizing what all that means to him

17:56Oti: as a black person, I think that's when we start to open up to him and how he's feeling and all the anxiety he has to deal with. And it also explains his drug taking, you know. So he it's a slow burn with him, but we do get there at the end, and that's what I'm thankful for. By the end of it, I think he is becoming one of the most likable characters in this

18:18KT: Yeah. Which is wild. I didn't think I'd ever say that. Credit to writing. Definitely credit to writing. But I would also say credit to us for being open to the experience and the friends we made along the way. And I absolutely agree with what you're saying because there is a whole conversation about code switching. There is a whole conversation about having to play the amicable like black person role in a society, in a workplace, in a school, and that's its own conversation. But I think when we were first introduced to Carlton,

18:57KT: it felt as though he was more than happy to take that Rege-Jean Page, Chicken George from Roots sort of role. Like even if he had no choice to play the role, he was willingly casting himself into that role. Right? And I think that's that was part of the barrier. I don't think it was necessarily that, you know, Carlton was so happy go lucky in the original, therefore I couldn't be on board with this one. I think it's just he was like passion of the Christ Carlton. Like, there was no

19:32KT: there was no there was no levity. He was wriggle your big toe, Uma Thurman, in Kill Bill. Like, there was no reprieve for this Carlton character. And like he definitely had his like substance abuse issues as well, but it felt like a lot at once. Right? We're still getting to know you guys. It's like, damn. Like, give us a second. Any highlights for you for Carlton's character?

19:59Oti: I think what he realizes he doesn't own Lisa and the world doesn't revolve around him. Young men don't own young women? Apparently not. What a world. Mhmm. The things people have to learn every day. Wild. And relearn. Right? Yeah. I think up until that point, that's when he start be becoming more likable. Yeah. Because, yeah, he just had to accept that shit.

20:26KT: But did he become more likable, or did they just give him a couple of scenes where he was amicable with Will, and then they stopped showing him for a bit?

20:35Oti: That would work. Yeah. Up since Mexico had grown fonder, doesn't it? Other time we see him, he's speaking sans. You know? I think when he turned to Will, that was a really good moment when he was like, you know, I've my problems. I've had anxiety. And just them having a bond Yeah. I think that was one of the best moments in the show as well.

21:00KT: Oh, absolutely. I I think yeah. I think of Carlton's character, I think when he he allowed himself to be vulnerable and he allowed Will to be there for him, Like, I don't know, this made me roll my eyes a bit. I'm pretty sure it was Will's mom that was talking to Carlton being like, oh, you always said you wanted a brother. This is kind of the way that God gave it to you. And I'm like, mate, like you don't need to bring the cheese like we get that they're having a brotherly bond right?

21:32KT: You don't have to put out your crown is waiting for you, you just need to be ready to put it on cheese. Yeesh. Bavia definitely has got some demons she needs to deal with, but let's continue on with the Banks kids. I'm going to love Coco Jones. I wasn't aware of her in her Disney sort of part of her career. I like her. I I I don't really I don't know. I really enjoyed Hillary in the original. I don't think there's anything wrong with having a ditzy aloof

22:07KT: woman. Like, I think there's still room for that. I think there's still an appetite for that, and I feel that that's still part of the experience of being a woman. You know? Some of you motherfuckers are daft as fuck. Like, it's okay. But you dress nice and you're cute and you're fun. Like, I I really enjoyed that, Hillary. I couldn't get past her just being chill and normal. Like, I because in that sense, she doesn't stand out. She kind of like

22:38KT: I don't know. Between you and Oti, like, I could have taken her and leave her. And I'm not saying Coco Jones. I'm saying Hillary's character. She was kind of just there.

22:47Oti: Yeah. She was just there. And no. Because she wanted to pull herself as intelligent. She'll stand on her own. But then on the other hand, relying on her parent for everything. Yeah. I'm like, you can't Yeah. Have it both You know, you can't just size or criticize your parents for doing one thing. And then the next minute, you're still like, oh.

23:09KT: Accepting opportunities that Aunt Viv set up for her. Yeah. Then her going on Instagram or whatever equivalent of live and complaining about representation. And it's like, no, babes. No. It doesn't work that way. And and I I think she was also forgetting to check her privilege at the door because, you know, as much as she's all high and mighty, she can afford to say no to such a life changing opportunity.

23:35Oti: And that is fucking privilege right there. Yeah. And I love the fact that Jazz pulled up on a lot of my talk about Jazz?

23:44KT: Friends and lovers, since we were talking about the mandem, Geoffrey, Plebs is something that well, we reference it a lot, but, you know, Plebs the TV show. It was very Lithia vase, like, at a very particular angle. I never thought Jordan L. Jones looked like Tupac until you reinforced it, and there was a particular angle. And I'm like, ah, that's the money shot. Just have to tilt the base a bit. No, but you're absolutely right. And but you know, I said it a couple of times, I don't think Hillary deserved

24:18KT: Jazz's patience and his wisdom and they they fell into the bedchambers quite quickly, actually. Yeah. I see. That's not even in a slut shaming way. Just in the sense that you thought they were going to tease out, will they, won't they, Rachel, Ross. See, I'm coming for your Friends. I know your references. Don't make me try and watch it again.

24:18Oti: Oh, but they did multiple times. It's just that they broke up afterwards.

24:18KT: Oh, did they?

24:44KT: Or Castle or Bones. You know, whenever you get the characters of will they, won't they, I didn't realize it was going to happen so soon. And I wanna focus on a particular because I think Hillary got if we're not talking about Will and even on a certain extent Carlton, think Hillary got a lot of meaty sort of storylines, if you'll pardon the chef or insta chef pun. I wanna talk about this because, well, first of all, the footage that was gathered at that party,

25:12KT: I thought that was going to be create a bombshell in uncle Phil's political race. I thought that was going to just wreak havoc right because there were actual conversations I think Jazz was having it with Trey talking about the fact that uncle Phil saved Will right. There was so much that was being discussed in way of being

25:32KT: able to criminate this family. Right? Yeah. I thought that was going to amount to something and you know, I'm actually surprised it did it and it would be weird to drag that out into the second season because this show has now been announced into a second season. But what I wanted to talk about was the concept of, a influencer house. I felt really gross about that. I thought it was going to get very me too. And I actually, I would have applauded the show if they were to take that sort of angle because,

26:03KT: you know, I I think it's the twenty twenty's equivalent of stranger danger. Right? Yeah.

26:09Oti: I'd go with luck or simpy.

26:12KT: Nice. But yeah. I thought that was going to amount to something else. And we probably don't have a lot of time today to go through it. But when we were watching the show and part of our reluctance to continue, you know, I tweeted that Carlton is eventually going to learn the hard lesson that rich privilege is not white privilege. And I think he did learn that. And it was heartbreaking because we got to a point where we, you know, actually cared for this motherfucker. But to to see him go through that journey,

26:46KT: you know, kudos kudos to the show for taking him through that. But I don't think Hillary went all the way there in regards to acknowledging her sort of privilege. First of all, it's her laughing at people in the comments telling her she's crazy for turning down, you know, the sponsorship deals and, you know, all of these opportunities that are falling on her lap. That's one thing. But the second thing was her not realizing, well, first of all, that a contract is legally binding,

27:14KT: but even just in like a normal, hello, I'm a human of the world honoring a fucking contract.

27:20Oti: Mhmm.

27:21KT: You don't just dip out when you feel like it. And I it was it was it like 40, 50 grand? 50 she had to pay. Yeah. But it's like even if you do pay that, that's not good business. Right? And I don't know. And and maybe it's just the enticings, but I also felt like she was too young to be duped like a elderly pensioner

27:43KT: getting scammed over the phone. Like she should She didn't read the contract. She just signed. Who does that? But it should have been way more due diligence. It was weird. I know aunt Viv got too involved and she said she would back off. But if if if if if it's getting to the point that Hillary is actually signing a contract for official work that she's actually going to do, that's kind of where you step in as a parent and, like,

28:06KT: do the due diligence. I don't even blame Aunt Viv for that. I'll too busy being googly eyed?

28:11Oti: That and the fact that Hillary was all about her stepping on her own, and she's old enough to take care of business. Yeah. So her taking care of business is signing a random paper she doesn't read. I'm being shocked that there's a clause that she has to pay money to break contract. Mhmm. Oh, bloody ridiculous. And this is where, like, a lot of times you wonder what the life of a rich black person is,

28:36Oti: where in one hand, in one extreme, you're so cautious and ex you have to take care of yourself. You have to wonder about society. You have to look at everything you say, do, act, whatever, all that shit. And there's some rich motherfuckers out here that don't know the life.

28:53KT: But my mother doesn't look like you, Oti.

28:56Oti: Oh, my father doesn't look like you, mate.

29:01KT: That's a Tandy way reference, friends and lovers. Speaking of being out of touch. But I think that was part of what was annoying to me about Hillary because age wise she's older than Will and Carlton, She should have known better. Like there's one thing about being naive and then there's one thing of being like unbelievably stupid.

29:28Oti: Yeah.

29:29KT: And the way I don't know and actually actually actually, I know we don't have a lot of time but I always try and pull my women up and hold my women accountable. I didn't care for it is a multi layered complex nuanced conversation if we wanna talk about women and owning their sexuality. I am always ready. Meet me on my personal Twitter, and we can we can go toe to toe with me, the champ. Right? I am always ready to have that conversation. What I didn't care for was

30:05KT: embracing like, was a point where Hillary was embracing her sexuality as a woman, as a young woman, nothing wrong with that. Right? But again, it it's too nuanced. I'm saying it's too nuanced, so meet me on Twitter. So that's probably not the right format. Speak with your chest. No. But what really bothers me is she was owning it and she was loving herself. She didn't like it through the lens of Kylo, fine, but it came at a fucking price, did it not?

30:41KT: Where were all your principles when they started waving Victoria's Secret money in your face? Fuck off. No. Seriously, fuck off.

30:41Oti: It was two pronged though. Right? On one hand

30:41KT: I'll prong you in a second with my sexuality.

30:55Oti: On one hand, she enjoyed the commercial benefits that it could afford her.

31:01KT: Yeah. And when she got feedback from other black women that, you know what? Go go for it. You know? A lot of the time, black women are seen in such a way, so why not own it? But there's nothing wrong with it. Right? That that's what I'm saying. There's nothing wrong with it. And that's why I get so fucking sick of basic fucking women making jokes about starting an OnlyFans. Fucking start it or shut the fuck up because sex work is work, and women that work in the sex industry deserve respect especially from other fucking women fuck off.

31:33Oti: Speak?

31:33KT: I was speaking until you silenced me by saying speak motherfucker.

31:40Oti: Mate, I'm just being an ally here.

31:43KT: They speak feminism and what?

31:46Oti: I'm all for it mate.

31:49KT: Oti is an ally to women just like Jerome OT Tarantino is an ally to the black community. Oh, wow. Well, let's leave Hillary alone because we have so much more to go through. I'm not gonna spend a lot of time on Jazz, but I would say he was one of my favorite characters. I was just smiling every time he was on the screen. And maybe it's also because I knew he was going to bring a balanced performance. It was it wasn't going to be like Olly snorting himself knee deep every time.

32:20Oti: Yeah. Because they use him as the fixer. They're sort of I don't call him the fixer after calling Geoffrey the fixer. No. No. No. No. The fixer. Like, he he's there as a soundboard for Will and Hillary and just solves the issues and problems. He's the mini Geoffrey, come to think of it. Like Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. He's there solely to be the sounding board for Hillary and Will,

32:45Oti: and he'll be there to pull them up on either their shit or to give them advice that, you know, you'd expect Uncle Phil to be given. He is different from the Jazz we used to.

32:58KT: You don't wanna get some wings and get busy?

33:01Oti: We all do. But I enjoyed it. I enjoyed his performances. I think he he brought a little a real grounding to this.

33:10KT: He did. I again, you wouldn't think it from the original Fresh Prince, but I do wanna see more of him in general. And like you said, he brings a lot of groundedness, very reminiscent of Oti of not having social media, not caring about numbers and that sort of thing. But I I don't he was very refreshing. He didn't have as much reach like Geoffrey, for example, where Geoffrey had like a heartfelt, you know, I'll do some dirt for you moment for every character in this show.

33:46KT: But I did enjoy Jazz. Is there anything you wanna say about Ashley? Because I don't think I have a lot to say about her.

33:52Oti: Oh, good for half of being queer.

33:55KT: Yeah. Yeah. Congrats, Gay.

34:01Oti: Yeah. That sucks in there.

34:04KT: Yeah. I guess we've done our pride month a couple of months early then. I I I think it was nice. There was a moment between her and aunt Viv, where Aunt Viv was like, you can be open to tell me these things. And then I feel like, as a previous teenager, that would feel cringe. You want the option to be able to talk to your parents about sex but you don't actually wanna talk to them about it.

34:34Oti: Yeah. But I think it was good for aunt Viv to just say she's there regardless.

34:39KT: Well, speaking of aunt Viv and someone that was always there, let's talk about Michael Ealy's character like Birdman rubbing his hands, looking out the window GIF.

34:49Oti: You know what you're gonna get with Mike Ealy.

34:52KT: He he was there to bring the sexual awakening in everyone. And He he is literally the OG Panty Collector. He he doesn't want to be, but he he turns out as the Panty Collector.

35:05Oti: Yeah. You know what you gotta get with him? The minute we saw him in in the screen, we just knew how it's gonna roll. Yeah. We know it's gonna confuse Viv.

35:16KT: We knew it's gonna make Apple feel jealous, and it all did. Save save your AI writing your scripts. You just put Michael Ealy in there, and we can we can figure out the equation from there. You say no more. Black Lady Sketch Show is back and Michael Ealy appeared in there too. And you just wonder at this point, his agent,

35:35KT: you know, like, there are people probably Robin Thede is probably like, hey, we'd like to have Michael Ealy on the show. Let me explain his character. And Michael Ealy's agent is like, no, don't worry. It's fine. Yeah. He'll be there. He knows. He'll be there with his light eyes and his sexy ass. Don't worry about it. He'll show up.

35:53Oti: But it's always good to see him.

35:55KT: Do you think it's unbelievable that he didn't try and make a move on Aunt Viv though?

35:55Oti: I think it's coming.

35:55KT: Oh, you okay. So so where there's gonna be a to be continued?

36:04Oti: Yeah. Oh, actually, I don't think it's coming. I think if uncle Phil would have continued trinching at Viv the way he was, it would definitely would have happened, but he seemed to have switched his game literally at the end

36:17KT: Yuck. That might save him from that. I don't know Oti. You know, whenever I think about like power couples, Tabitha Brown is really the only example of where you have the husband holding it down and now it's, you know, now it's Tabitha's turn to have success and now it's her to like it's her husband's turn to take a break. Right? I think that that's the only time that that dynamic works because when it came to uncle Phil, I don't know, like that dynamic, he I personally

36:51KT: come and meet me either in my personal Twitter or on the podcast Twitter because I'm ready to fucking fight. I do not believe that uncle Philip Banks in the 2022 Bel-Air show believes that women are equal. Like, think I think at this point, she's like the fucking toe, not the side of his rib. I don't believe that uncle Phil sees aunt Viv as an equal. I think he loves her as much he as he could ever love a woman, maybe not as much as Michael Ealy could love a woman.

37:27KT: But and by the way, I am all for the mess. Bring the mess. I'm ready for Michael Ealy to just mess up aunt Viv's joint. I'm ready for him to start painting his dick on her canvas. I am ready.

37:39Oti: You mean he wants him to be all up in aunt Viv's jawn?

37:47KT: Oh, man. But I I genuinely don't I I just feel like uncle Phil is one of those men that don't see women as equals, even the ones especially the ones that they love. Well, a good example is

38:02Oti: he he spent a lot of the money from their personal account on his campaign. Yeah. And he wasn't even asking for he didn't even ask or discuss it with Aunt Viv.

38:13KT: Yeah. He was, like, telling her after the fact. Yeah. He was like He was trying to make it sound like he was asking for permission, but he did it already.

38:22Oti: Viv was like, what the fuck? And he was like, I'm not gonna ask for permission to spend my money. Oh.

38:29KT: Speaking of what the fuck, we love Dwayne, but if Dwayne is your campaign manager, some shady shit is going down.

38:37Oti: Yeah. You fucked up somewhere.

38:41KT: Having having Geoffrey as his sidekick and then having Dwayne as his campaign manager, it was nice seeing Dwayne though. It was good seeing him. It's been it's been a while. Yeah, I don't know. I think the way that they've laid the foundation for aunt Viv and uncle Phil, I don't know for me personally,

39:01KT: I don't know if we're ever gonna get to a point where I believe that uncle Phil sees, you know, aunt Viv as an equal. Exactly what you're saying. Like, he was trying to make it like, you know, he was asking permission and he's like, Lol, too bad, I really did it. I was like, what the fuck? And then they had that heartfelt moment in the hotel where uncle Phil and this is kind of where we learn because I think a lot of the time, especially when it comes to women becoming mothers and having children,

39:33KT: and I think even with us, we assumed with aunt Viv, she just forgot herself in the process. She lost herself in the process, which wasn't it wasn't wrong. Like it wasn't entirely false, but it wasn't entirely the truth either. And Uncle Phil talks about how she was so tortured by the whole creative, not necessarily the creative process, but all of the admin and then then the orchestration and the politics that happens for being a young black creative. Right? So he was talking about that. Okay. Cool.

40:04KT: I understand that uncle Phil, but what was it? Fifteen fucking seventeen years? Where were you that whole time then?

40:10Oti: True. But I don't necessarily disagree with him. Oh. Because Aunt Viv was putting her her her trepidation in getting back or or being an artist fully as uncle Phil not pushing her. And I'm like, okay. There there there's there's a line. You know? There's a lot of shit we can throw at uncle Phil. But him being the sole reason that he didn't become an artist, you know that's not right because at the end of the day, it's up to you. You know yourself better than anyone else. You cannot put

40:44Oti: your career or what you want to do on the hands of someone else. You just cannot.

40:50KT: Friends and lovers, you might have heard Oti speaking, I could hear Michael Ealy knocking on my door.

40:56Oti: I'll join in. Don't worry about that.

40:59KT: Like the KMPL high five?

41:02Oti: Yeah. For sure. Both getting the treat mate.

41:10KT: Admission for two in KT's jawn. Oh yeah, I don't know. I think I enjoy uncle Phil as a character. Although I will say, and I forgot to mention it when we were talking about Carlton, like uncle Phil, he he was a bit harsh towards Will, but he became endeared to Will And he had many tender vulnerable moments, and he said things to Will that we never saw him ever say to Carlton, which was very sad.

41:10Oti: Yeah. It was. But at least he realized that he also needed to give Carlton

41:45Oti: some one on one time. It felt a bit too Will leaning at times.

41:51KT: Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. Friends and lovers, for those of us that have joined the podcast now in our fourth year, especially if you've joined us in very passionate relationship episodes, including the first time we covered Insecure, Oti has a hankering for defending shitty black men. And I'm seeing a pattern because every time I say something about uncle Phil, I didn't necessarily put him in the category of shitty black men characters, but you're making it very clear to me that he is part of your brethren. Wow.

42:28KT: When you think you're Michael Ealy, but you're actually uncle Phil. The last character that I wanna bring up is Lisa's dad, Fred. Thoughts, feelings, they did try to have a conversation about defunding the police and then uncle Phil kind of backtracked on that. But what did you feel about Fred's presence in the show?

42:50Oti: It didn't feel like those because a lot of the time when you're watching American TV and you get this commercials with a black Republican

43:01Oti: talking about I'm everyone's worst nightmare.

43:04Oti: I'm their worst. Right? They wanna defund the police. Let's defend the police. Like, okay, mate.

43:14KT: I agree.

43:18Oti: Well, he didn't feel to that extent, but at least those assemblies are all aligned that uncle Phil wouldn't cross in terms of tarnishing his name. We know that he cheated on Lisa's mom while she's she was sick and dying Yeah. Which is fucked up. Yeah. But outside of that, we don't really get to delve into him as a person or a character in this show. He's more a peripheral figure. We know he exists, and he's just there because.

43:52KT: And you know what I'm realizing? We haven't really talked about Lisa, but Lisa kind of pisses me off. Rojasso. She's she's too naive and she's too traditional conservative leaning for the fucking 20 and she's too young to be acting like that. A lot of her betrayal, a lot of that shit was about the fact that Will wasn't ready to share his trauma. Fuck right off. And stop treating your sexuality like it's a favor to men. Fuck off. Like, we can talk about it. I don't think she was overly religious.

44:25KT: Fucking talk about it. We're in the 2020. She's a young woman. Come on now.

44:30Oti: Come on now. I hear you. But I also feel like Will should have just been truthful.

44:36KT: No. But it wasn't like he was going out of his way to be devious. We all know friends and lovers. As much as we wanna open up to someone, unless we're ready, come on. Come on. We're talking about She young Is she what? We're talking about Young, Famous & African. Right? We talked about Annie with 2Face and all of his many faced children all over Africa. Right? He's got more than one African Queen. You can't fucking tell someone shit if you're not ready to tell it yourself. Right? So

45:06KT: I don't think it was on Will. Why do I need to tell you the most sad, most depressing shit of my life for you to feel endeared to me? Fuck off. So that you feel that you're connected by by everything and and And that friends and lovers are called trauma bonds. That's not a healthy way to connect to someone. I don't know. Friends and lovers, again, I've got lots of time and apparently I find nuance in Twitter. So find me there.

45:31KT: But, yeah, I I definitely don't wanna talk anymore. Is there anything else you wanna say about Lisa?

45:31Oti: No. No. You you've said enough.

45:31KT: Do you have any not necessarily predictions. Do you have any hopes of what season two will bring?

45:45Oti: Don't don't drag out the the Will and his father beef for nonsense. Just just Oh, Marlon Wayans. We didn't even give a shout out to Marlon Wayans. It was good seeing him, man. I'm glad he's getting roles recently. I still don't buy him as serious as of our households growing up. It was wild, you know, not having their family on the screen for a minute, but it's good seeing them back. You know? They've done a lot, so it's good, man. Yeah. And he's going to have a comedy special coming out soon. Yeah.

46:16Oti: With Tony Baker as well. Yeah. Shante too, man. Nice. Very nice.

46:23KT: I wanna see Hillary get more I wanted to like be held accountable for her lack and naivety. I wanna see more of that. Shout outs to Karrueche. Karrueche continues to be in shit we're watching.

46:40Oti: Yeah. It takes some getting used to in Games People Play like Lauren London just disappearing. You're like, okay. Shout outs to Lauren London. She deserves more love because she was holding that on her lovely shoulders. And you don't even realize it until it's gone, man. Fucking hell.

46:56KT: Well, you know when we talk about our BET shows, we're near the end of the podcast. Right? Thank you for joining us, friends and lovers. Another week in the For Your Reference household. We're gonna finish off in a segment we call For Your Reference, Oti. Has nothing to do with Bel-Air as a show or any sort of close touch points in any case.

47:19Oti: But it's something that we watched recently on HBO Max, Rothaniel, the stand up by

47:19KT: Oh. Yeah.

47:19Oti: Jerrod Carmichael. Mhmm. It was really good. It's it's very intimate and one of the best things I've watched this year Oh, absolutely. For sure. Yeah. Give it a go. Absolutely.

47:40KT: And you know what's really sad? Because we continue to watch interviews, like on Seth Meyers, Jerrod was on there and it's fucking sad because you can see that he is dying for the love and acceptance from his mom. He talked about it in the special and he talked about it in the Seth Meyers interview and you can see, and all of us can relate to wanting mommy and daddy's approval. Right? And it's a very human sort of emotion and definitely something to connect to as well. So good looking out.

48:15Oti: Yeah. Sure. It's time we add a chapter in in in in the bible when Jesus had his queer adventures because people need to to learn. If the if the bible is the only way they accept it, that chapter needs to be added.

48:34KT: You need the Judas and the rainbow messiah. Yeah. Nice. Okay. Well, I'm going to reference another Peacock show that we've been enjoying a lot. And that is the recently released Chris Redd, Jak Knight, Langston Kerman, Sam Jay series Bust fucking Down.

48:34Oti: Oh, wow. That's a gem right there.

48:34KT: And I know I keep talking about the first eleven minutes being all you need as a corporate company to buy for your HR videos, but the HR department in Bust Down, Freddie Gibbs, shout outs all around. If you would like Oti and I

49:19KT: to be your HR surveillance on Twitter and Instagram, we're @ForYourRefPod. Right. That's an email at hello@fyrpodcast.com. We're also on Jeffrey, the kingpin in Britain, US, and all around the world podcast. If you like to leave a rating and review. And we'll see you guys next week. See you. Bye.